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	<title>Comments on: Hits &amp; Misses: Trading Santana, More On Bourn, A Little On Collins</title>
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	<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html</link>
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		<title>By: vigouge</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-358358</link>
		<dc:creator>vigouge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 02:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-358358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s an interesting question on whether you can decline an option and still make a qualifying offer.  A quick google search says you can still do it, and teams could have done it under previous rules.  Now a better question would be can you trade a player that accepts a qualifying offer if he had a not trade clause in his previous contract.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting question on whether you can decline an option and still make a qualifying offer.  A quick google search says you can still do it, and teams could have done it under previous rules.  Now a better question would be can you trade a player that accepts a qualifying offer if he had a not trade clause in his previous contract.</p>
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		<title>By: HarryDoyle</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-358037</link>
		<dc:creator>HarryDoyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-358037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps, but who&#039;s to say he wouldn&#039;t take a slight discount to not play in Seattle? Or maybe he&#039;d take a little less to avoid playing in &quot;The Mistake by the Lake&quot;. Regardless, just because it&#039;s February doesn&#039;t mean there aren&#039;t cities in which he&#039;d rather not play. It also doesn&#039;t mean that he won&#039;t use teams to jack up his price even if he has no intentions of playing for some of those teams.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps, but who&#8217;s to say he wouldn&#8217;t take a slight discount to not play in Seattle? Or maybe he&#8217;d take a little less to avoid playing in &#8220;The Mistake by the Lake&#8221;. Regardless, just because it&#8217;s February doesn&#8217;t mean there aren&#8217;t cities in which he&#8217;d rather not play. It also doesn&#8217;t mean that he won&#8217;t use teams to jack up his price even if he has no intentions of playing for some of those teams.</p>
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		<title>By: HarryDoyle</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-358030</link>
		<dc:creator>HarryDoyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-358030</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe D, great edit to the Santana part. It&#039;s much more concise and accurate now. There&#039;s another blog in existence about the Mets that could really take a cue from you. Anyway, you have a great site that&#039;s one of, if not the best blog about the Mets out there, and I appreciate the efforts of you and all the other contributors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe D, great edit to the Santana part. It&#8217;s much more concise and accurate now. There&#8217;s another blog in existence about the Mets that could really take a cue from you. Anyway, you have a great site that&#8217;s one of, if not the best blog about the Mets out there, and I appreciate the efforts of you and all the other contributors.</p>
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		<title>By: vinnie papandrea</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357913</link>
		<dc:creator>vinnie papandrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your opening paragraph is ridiculous, Why? It is the middle of February and Bourne hasn&#039;t signed, you think that&#039;s because he hasn&#039;t decided where HE wants to play. No one wants to pay him and give up draft compensation, Bourne is not going where he wants he&#039;s going to who ever offers the most]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your opening paragraph is ridiculous, Why? It is the middle of February and Bourne hasn&#8217;t signed, you think that&#8217;s because he hasn&#8217;t decided where HE wants to play. No one wants to pay him and give up draft compensation, Bourne is not going where he wants he&#8217;s going to who ever offers the most</p>
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		<title>By: Dave In Spain</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357790</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave In Spain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 10:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really think that Pagan is the best comp right now. Their numbers aren´t far apart, nor are their ages. The demand of 5/75 for Bourn in light of Pagan´s 4/40, along with draft pick loss, is why he´s still available. Also, most big market teams are set at CF. I think once pitchers and catchers report next week Bourn will start to get antsy and will lower his demands or just accept the Mets´ offer. Then a delay for MLB to rule on the draft pick.... I´m also guessing that he´s wondering what happens if MLB rules against the Mets and the Mets withdraw the offer. Where does he go then?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really think that Pagan is the best comp right now. Their numbers aren´t far apart, nor are their ages. The demand of 5/75 for Bourn in light of Pagan´s 4/40, along with draft pick loss, is why he´s still available. Also, most big market teams are set at CF. I think once pitchers and catchers report next week Bourn will start to get antsy and will lower his demands or just accept the Mets´ offer. Then a delay for MLB to rule on the draft pick&#8230;. I´m also guessing that he´s wondering what happens if MLB rules against the Mets and the Mets withdraw the offer. Where does he go then?</p>
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		<title>By: Joey D.</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357664</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 04:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Joe D.,

Frank had 32 that season and since we no longer have Hairston, I think you are right again.   Of course, Frank loved hitting in the Polo Grounds with those short distances down the line. 

Though he hit .306, Ashburn did not have enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting leaders yet the Mets always had him listed as their all-time batting champ till Cleon hit his .340 in 1969.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joe D.,</p>
<p>Frank had 32 that season and since we no longer have Hairston, I think you are right again.   Of course, Frank loved hitting in the Polo Grounds with those short distances down the line. </p>
<p>Though he hit .306, Ashburn did not have enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting leaders yet the Mets always had him listed as their all-time batting champ till Cleon hit his .340 in 1969.</p>
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		<title>By: greggofboken</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357626</link>
		<dc:creator>greggofboken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 03:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By July 31, Santana will have just under $9M left on his $25M base contract to pay off.  Plus the $5.5M buyout of the option -- which no club in their right mind would excercise.  Any club receiving Santana would want to -- at the very least -- get sufficient cash to cover the cost of the buyout.  Let&#039;s say the $9M is too much for a club in the hunt to eat.  If Santana&#039;s having a strong year and the Mets eat $3-$4M of the rest of the salary along w/the buyout money, I could see him being moved.

While Santana might love some guarantee of his option being picked up, there&#039;s just no way -- even if he had a killer year -- that option gets exercised.

The other trading deadline option that would be appealing to another club at midseason if the Mets are out of it is Marcum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By July 31, Santana will have just under $9M left on his $25M base contract to pay off.  Plus the $5.5M buyout of the option &#8212; which no club in their right mind would excercise.  Any club receiving Santana would want to &#8212; at the very least &#8212; get sufficient cash to cover the cost of the buyout.  Let&#8217;s say the $9M is too much for a club in the hunt to eat.  If Santana&#8217;s having a strong year and the Mets eat $3-$4M of the rest of the salary along w/the buyout money, I could see him being moved.</p>
<p>While Santana might love some guarantee of his option being picked up, there&#8217;s just no way &#8212; even if he had a killer year &#8212; that option gets exercised.</p>
<p>The other trading deadline option that would be appealing to another club at midseason if the Mets are out of it is Marcum.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe D</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357616</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 02:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thomas had more homers that year than the entire Mets outfield in 2012. Plus I dont think anyone will bat .300 like Ashburn did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas had more homers that year than the entire Mets outfield in 2012. Plus I dont think anyone will bat .300 like Ashburn did.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey D.</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357599</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 02:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Joe D.,


&quot;.....the fact remains the the current outfield hasn’t even one player with a full season of experience under his belt. I can’t say I ever recall a similar situation in the history of the franchise.&quot;

Technically you are right, for even though Lucas Duda has almost 900 plate appearances in the majors, he did have those two small stints in the minors each of the past two seasons.

At this point I would love to go into the season just with our original outfield alignment that first game in Sportsman Park back in 1962 - Thomas, Ashburn and Bell - even at the stages their careers were at the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joe D.,</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;..the fact remains the the current outfield hasn’t even one player with a full season of experience under his belt. I can’t say I ever recall a similar situation in the history of the franchise.&#8221;</p>
<p>Technically you are right, for even though Lucas Duda has almost 900 plate appearances in the majors, he did have those two small stints in the minors each of the past two seasons.</p>
<p>At this point I would love to go into the season just with our original outfield alignment that first game in Sportsman Park back in 1962 &#8211; Thomas, Ashburn and Bell &#8211; even at the stages their careers were at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey D.</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357587</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 02:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Alex,

After two years under Sandy, it seems Terry now gets the idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alex,</p>
<p>After two years under Sandy, it seems Terry now gets the idea.</p>
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		<title>By: HarryDoyle</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357474</link>
		<dc:creator>HarryDoyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 23:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are correct, sir. Also, the part about Santana negotiating for a no-trade clause in his contract is a waste of words since Santana now has 10/5 rights. He&#039;ll be a tough trade, no doubt, but if the Mets can do it and save money while giving a younger arm some big league innings, then I don&#039;t see any downside regardless of the players brought back. Any player they get in a trade would just be gravy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are correct, sir. Also, the part about Santana negotiating for a no-trade clause in his contract is a waste of words since Santana now has 10/5 rights. He&#8217;ll be a tough trade, no doubt, but if the Mets can do it and save money while giving a younger arm some big league innings, then I don&#8217;t see any downside regardless of the players brought back. Any player they get in a trade would just be gravy.</p>
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		<title>By: Hotstreak</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357414</link>
		<dc:creator>Hotstreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could be right but if I was on the &quot;Price is Right&quot; that would be my bid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could be right but if I was on the &#8220;Price is Right&#8221; that would be my bid.</p>
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		<title>By: Metsie</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357410</link>
		<dc:creator>Metsie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It will be difficult to trade Santana but not impossible....
It will have to be to a team that is contending and needs a pitcher.

We won&#039;t get much back for him but it will uncomplicate the situation next offseason.
I&#039;m not sure we would even get a comp pick if we let him leave with the option in place.

Not sure you can deny the option and then make a qualifying offer after the fact.
So getting anything for him is probably better than going into the offseason with him.

As for Terry he will be the next casualty in the BUYING TIME agenda that tripped up and cost us Dickey.
A new manager will give them another two years to say &quot;Give him Time to instill his managerial philosophy&quot; while Sandy GMs the team to the top of the draft picks to do what he )and others) CLAIM he has been doing for the last two years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be difficult to trade Santana but not impossible&#8230;.<br />
It will have to be to a team that is contending and needs a pitcher.</p>
<p>We won&#8217;t get much back for him but it will uncomplicate the situation next offseason.<br />
I&#8217;m not sure we would even get a comp pick if we let him leave with the option in place.</p>
<p>Not sure you can deny the option and then make a qualifying offer after the fact.<br />
So getting anything for him is probably better than going into the offseason with him.</p>
<p>As for Terry he will be the next casualty in the BUYING TIME agenda that tripped up and cost us Dickey.<br />
A new manager will give them another two years to say &#8220;Give him Time to instill his managerial philosophy&#8221; while Sandy GMs the team to the top of the draft picks to do what he )and others) CLAIM he has been doing for the last two years.</p>
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		<title>By: Anakin Corleone</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357400</link>
		<dc:creator>Anakin Corleone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;With the new CBA the new team won’t get any draft pick compensation unless they make Santana a qualifying offer of about $15 million for the 2014 season. I don’t think there’s a team out there that would take that chance.&quot;

Wouldn&#039;t this be true only if Johan is dealt before the season started?  If a player is dealt in-season, the new team doesn&#039;t get draft picks even if they make a qualifying offer (which they wouldn&#039;t bother to do in these cases.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;With the new CBA the new team won’t get any draft pick compensation unless they make Santana a qualifying offer of about $15 million for the 2014 season. I don’t think there’s a team out there that would take that chance.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t this be true only if Johan is dealt before the season started?  If a player is dealt in-season, the new team doesn&#8217;t get draft picks even if they make a qualifying offer (which they wouldn&#8217;t bother to do in these cases.)</p>
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		<title>By: ifthevansrockin</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357396</link>
		<dc:creator>ifthevansrockin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree.  I remember when they were looking to replace Jerry, and there were quotes from him that he had no desire to manage again anyway, and seemed real happy in his org development role.  So going back to that, if not retirement, is highly likely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  I remember when they were looking to replace Jerry, and there were quotes from him that he had no desire to manage again anyway, and seemed real happy in his org development role.  So going back to that, if not retirement, is highly likely.</p>
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		<title>By: ifthevansrockin</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357392</link>
		<dc:creator>ifthevansrockin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[he really does not have upside over what he did in 2012.  more like that is his ceiling now (odds are), so you better be comfortable paying for a bit less than that as the expected output.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>he really does not have upside over what he did in 2012.  more like that is his ceiling now (odds are), so you better be comfortable paying for a bit less than that as the expected output.</p>
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		<title>By: ifthevansrockin</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357387</link>
		<dc:creator>ifthevansrockin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that is way more than FMV (4/60).  pagan got 4/40, and Vickey 3/36, and those are proably the closest comps right now.  

I would say 3/36 to 3/39 is more like what they would be offering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that is way more than FMV (4/60).  pagan got 4/40, and Vickey 3/36, and those are proably the closest comps right now.  </p>
<p>I would say 3/36 to 3/39 is more like what they would be offering.</p>
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		<title>By: ifthevansrockin</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357382</link>
		<dc:creator>ifthevansrockin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the NTC doesn&#039;t matter at this point anyway since he is a 5/10 guy by now.  So he would have the block power regardless.

Trading him, depends entirely on how well he is doing and how desperate some team is for a SP.

the money is easy enough to work out, and they could easily do what they did with beltran.  Eat the money they are on the hook for anyway, and get real talent back.  If they go the KRod route and get a team to take on a lot more of the money, than no, they won&#039;t get much back other than the salary relief.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the NTC doesn&#8217;t matter at this point anyway since he is a 5/10 guy by now.  So he would have the block power regardless.</p>
<p>Trading him, depends entirely on how well he is doing and how desperate some team is for a SP.</p>
<p>the money is easy enough to work out, and they could easily do what they did with beltran.  Eat the money they are on the hook for anyway, and get real talent back.  If they go the KRod route and get a team to take on a lot more of the money, than no, they won&#8217;t get much back other than the salary relief.</p>
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		<title>By: TX</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357380</link>
		<dc:creator>TX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My guess is that he will be re-assigned into the system, much along the lines of what he was doing before hand.  If memory serves, he mentioned about not wanting to manage forever anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that he will be re-assigned into the system, much along the lines of what he was doing before hand.  If memory serves, he mentioned about not wanting to manage forever anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: ray sadecki</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/hits-misses-trading-santana-more-on-bourn-a-little-on-collins.html#comment-357377</link>
		<dc:creator>ray sadecki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=107170#comment-357377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding Collins,

I really dont expect him to be back next year. I am pretty sure that Alderson promised Wally the job in 2014 to keep him in the fold one more year. I wont cry for Terry if he loses his job as I am sure he wont be applying for unemployment benefits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Collins,</p>
<p>I really dont expect him to be back next year. I am pretty sure that Alderson promised Wally the job in 2014 to keep him in the fold one more year. I wont cry for Terry if he loses his job as I am sure he wont be applying for unemployment benefits.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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