ESPN’s Keith Law Ranks Mets System No. 14

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• Hank January 30, 2013 at 10:01 am

  The list shows that the Mets top two prospects are probably the best of any other team’s top two prospects. However, the rest of the “mlb.com” article also points out that this isn’t enough to carry a whole system. We are being carried by our top heavy prospects, and while there’s hope, it’s miles away but coming. The #11 ranking is exciting.

  Most interesting thing I found in the article was that the Marlins can already be considered a top 5 system. Wait until they move Stanton and bag some other teams’ top 3-4 prospects. This is why I keep saying, hate Loria, he’s awful. But the Marlins have just as much if not even more young talent than we do. Also, the “trade Reyes” ship might have sailed, but the 2013 Mets will have some of us singing…we should’ve traded Wright for some of this young talent in the league.
• Justin January 30, 2013 at 10:06 am

  Congrats to Darnaud and Wheeler. Maybe one day we’ll have a top ranked major league team too which to me should be the real goal.
• TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 10:13 am

  Interesting that all three of these guys were brought in by trade. Obviously however if you trade Beltran and Dickey you should get 3 of the top 30. It’s clear though that Alderson’s idea was to add quality over quantity in those deals, not budging without the inclusion of an impact player or two in the case of Dickey. PLEASE don’t make this about Alderson, that’s not my point. What I am saying is that it is pretty clear what the plan is. I was listening to MLBN last night on the way back from my basketball game (I don’t think I would ever stay awake without it) and Cliff and whoever was hosting with him were laughing at the idea of it being an appropriate time for the Mets to get Bourn, how considering the improvements they have made, signing Bourn to a multi-year deal and giving up the pick would be about as ridiculous as possible. They also talked about how if Harvey had not been brought up the Mets would have 3 guys in the top 10. So it does appear the young core is just about here and things are in deed possibly on schedule for 2014 just as many have said.
  • Met Maniac January 30, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Interesting that all three of these guys were brought in by trade. Obviously however if you trade Beltran and Dickey you should get 3 of the top 30.

    Can’t believe I’m going to say it but…THIS!
    • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 10:44 am

      Maniac, I am telling you guys that I am not who you think I am. LOL.

      I just have a different time period and I am a little more patient. I defended Omar to the letter but when my patience was gone, time for him to go. I set the offseason between 2013 and 2014 as my point and at that point if I don’t see that the team is in better shape then I too will be ready to storm the Bastille.

      That being said, I do give credit in those deals to Alderson having a good poker face, not blinking and getting the best players available in return.
      • Metsie January 30, 2013 at 1:20 pm

        And you do realize also that if these guys are that close to being promoted that SOMETHING to fill in the holes the Minors can’t fill around those kids was in order this year?

        Will you at least conceed that ONE credible OFer in the 8-13 Mil range was in order this year?

        If Money wasn’t the issue, you could have gotten the best OF in FA this year and the best OF in FA next year which in the end would be better than signing the 1st and second best players next year….

        If for no other reason than you would overpay for both….

        If Money is the issue then you could sign the best credible bargain (good performer/moderate salary 8-13M) this year and then next….

        If 2014 was the target then 2013 Offseason would have been a good time to acquire and have in the kitty some of the players we will need to not waste 2014 when all those kids (save Snydergaard) will be in the MLB and thier clocks will be running…

        We put off tomorrow what we could do today and considering how slow this FO is about making decisions and going after FA talent it is not a good bet they will get what we need in 2014 FA class (if it is even there) and then the can gets kicked to 2015 and we have this PLAn discussion another year….
        • The real cactus February 5, 2013 at 7:27 pm

          We are all a little dumber having read this comment
          • Metsie February 5, 2013 at 10:30 pm

            Impossible in your case!
• taskmaster4450 January 30, 2013 at 10:18 am

  There is no doubt the farm system is much improved. As for rankings, I am always uncertain what basis the rater(s) used. Harvey and TDA are top notch prospects…no doubt about it. They are high end talents at the upper levels of the minors. To me, that is what needs to be considered in the rankings.

  Presently, after them and Flores, there is a drop off to the lower levels. There really isnt much talent until you get down to St Lucie. Sure Syndergaard has a high ceiling, but he still has not progressed past A ball. That is the crux of the matter. To get guys to AAA you first need the talent at A and rookie ball. The more talent, the better chance that some will make it to the upper levels because many will fail along the way.

  Overall, a good article to read and nice to see some good news in terms of rankings. The goal now is to have some of that translate into big league talent.
• Alex68 January 30, 2013 at 10:18 am

  Here we go again, same crap about prospect, is this supposed to somehow guarantee a championship for us in the MAJORS??? what’s the point of this article craig? to praise sandy alderson for his 2 prospects in the top 10 while the team IN THE MAJORS is arguably one of the worst in baseball? how come you only write pro alderson articles? what’s with that crap about QUALITY PLAYERS OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS??? Wheeler and d’arnaud then what else? Nimmo? Cecchinni? you’ve got to be kiddingm You’re the worst writer in here, i seriously thought jessep took the reign, but your constant bullsh** makes everyone wanna vomit, all you do is praise alderson and his work, even when posting articles about the minors, you never and i mean NEVER say anything negative about the guy, you fail to point out how he didn’t sign half his pick, picked crapinni over hawkins who will be 193837x better, it’s amazing how you dismiss all the kids that right now are helping the mets, davis, tejada, harvey, etc I have no idea if this site filters the article, but yours need to be checked out before posting them, all of them are Pro Sandy and his work, i like how you dismiss the fact that the majors league team hasn’t done SH** under him, but quick to point out how we’re getting recognizition over 2 players we got in the minors, who most likely than not will not pan out to be what you and every sabergooner are expecting them to be, it’s amazing how you are part of the immortals here to be honest, i guess all those emails exchanges DO work.
  Immortals my as*..
  • RandomGuy January 30, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Someone should ban this clown, his comments are always asinine and absurd, and he clearly has no baseball knowledge. Just ban him, make everyone’s lives better, and frustrate him in the process.
    • Bayonne Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 10:40 am

      He has every right to very angry about the way Alderson is portrayed here. Sorry it feels like voodoo to you each time a criticism is hurled Alerson’s way.
      • RandomGuy January 30, 2013 at 11:02 am

        Alderson is not even being talked about in this article! His name is not mentioned once! The fact that you tie in our minor league system’s rankings to Alderson’s “portrayal” in the article shows that you seriously have butt-hurt issues with Sandy Alderson unable to get out of your head, I hope you find help.

        I rarely, rarely comment, I read the articles and laugh at Alex68′s comments, yours too sometimes. I’m not an Alderson supporter by any means. I actually was against trading R.A. Dickey, but with what we got in return it may have been worth it.

        Alex68 you literally despise the Beltran trade, but what would have happened if we kept Beltran for the rest of that season? He would of left to free agency, and we WERE NOT GOING TO WIN ANYTHING. You don’t seem to understand that concept. We could be a 60 win team, but if it was a team of Beltran’s you would never change a thing.

        Typical, get educated on sports man, you clearly haven’t tried before this.

        Glad I can be the only person that’ll actually tell you how retarded you are.

        (this was most for alex68, not Bayonne)
        • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 11:13 am

          Wow, not sure the last line was called for at all.
          • Bayonne Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 11:16 am

            As TRS does what he does best – add to the comment count on a thread & push back relevent comments related to the post from the Recent Comments section with usually comments that are NOT related to the subject.
            • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 11:22 am

              Bay why don’t you mind your own words and stay out of it. If you notice I was defending Alex there.
          • Boomer January 30, 2013 at 11:17 am

            A little hard to criticize anyone for chastising Alex when he calls anyone who disagrees with him names and questions their intelligence on a daily basis. Multiple times a day, actually.

            Goose, gander, apply sauce.
        • Alex68 January 30, 2013 at 11:28 am

          Random, i’ll tell you one thing, all you know it all think you got it all figure out, i am sure you jumped of joy when krod was traded as well to save up money, because you thought we saved on salary cap to spend on FA next year right? You’re something else to say the least, had we kept beltran who knows what could’ve happen right? we were 6 games out and we gave up on the season before the trading deadline so that’s a moot, one can never tell this things, we’re talking about a guy who can single handlely carry you into the playoffs and win a series by himself, with that being said, i didn’t say i like the trade, if you don’t know the history of many people in here i suggest you don’t butt in or take sides, this guy craig post his pro alderson articles every week, it’s a constant with him, do you think his comment of improving the minors the past 2 years wasn’t a shot at minaya and the old regime? and why you think that was huh? if you don’t know stay out of it, and please, read some of us so you can learn some things about baseball, it seems most of you read a book and suddenly know how baseball should be perceived, in the while all is doing is making you all look like idiots, wake me up when the moneyballers win anything or when PPA matters when handing a trophy for WS champions…
    • Kramer67 January 30, 2013 at 10:56 am

      LOL What would be the fun in banning him? Face it, there are asinine and absurd people in all groups of people including Met fans. I rather like the comic relief.
  • Alex68 January 30, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Why?? Because i come hard at the sabergooners like craig and you? Because i come hard on guys who put a f’ing PO’s GM ahead of the team? Because i don’t tolerate buttlickers who keep praising this guy and everything he does as if he was some demigod and we were world beaters as a team?? Not gonna happen buddy, If anything, whoever keeps praising this guy should be the ones getting ban from here until further notice…
  • Sloatsburg Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Woof Woof!! Pavlov’s Pooches at it again! Informative article. Nice to see our farm is finally getting some love.
  • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 10:49 am

    Come on Alex, lets be fair. Every Mets site is reporting this news today. It’s good news. Does it take away from the current MLB team not being championship caliber? NO. However, does it give hope that there are potential impact players on the horizon? Sure.

    Can’t you remember back to 2004 when the Mets were 71-91 and clearly had a non-championship caliber team but we got to read about and see a young Jose Reyes and David Wright? Would you have been so obsessed with the current roster that you would frown on an article that talked about them?
    • Alex68 January 30, 2013 at 10:53 am

      Now you’re comparing 2004 to this team? You’ve got to be kidding me.. seriously.
      • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 10:57 am

        Man you always miss the forest by running smack into a tree.

        I am not comparing the years, while it could be if the Mets start to spend after this year the way they did after 2004.

        What I am comparing is the excitement level generated by having two top prospects that we all knew had great potential and were players that could be built around. Don’t you think in the winter of 2003 if MMO existed there would have been a ton of articles on Wright and Reyes?
      • Alex68 January 30, 2013 at 11:32 am

        Ok, after we got Wright and Reyes, we sort of knew what we had, they were never top this and top that, but they were our top guys, all the hoopla isn’t about those 2 guys, it’s about the guy who acquired them and the need for mr craig to let us all know how in the past 2 years our minors have somehow gotten better under this FO..
        One thing i’ll say, Minaya had the right plan, too bad his draft picks as often they do bust, but he built around reyes and wright, now, i’ll ask you this, do you trust this FO will do what’s necessary to protect wheeler and d’arnaud to be the players BA expect them to be? YOu don’t think for any moment that since they are pegged the saviors of NY since alderson has done nothing to help or improve the team will have some effect on their perfomance? This ain’t Oakland or SD, this is NEW YORK!!! a place that if sneeze, an article it’s been written about the amount of snot that came out…
        • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 11:53 am

          Honestly Alex, as always I take each article and comment as individual comments and I see absolutely no agenda in this article. I have to wonder if you aren’t letting this situation get to you a little too much.

          This seems to be your hangup paragraph:
          “It was a great day for the Mets system yesterday as they finally received some well-deserved recognition and have obviously put together a very respectable minor league system that is feeding the major league squad with quality players over the last two years with even more to come.”

          If you notice he says that the system is feeding the major league squad with quality players over the last two years… those players haven’t been Alderson’s and he never said they were. He also praised Harvey and Flores in the previous paragraphs. To me this was about as neutral article as possible, giving praise to the 3 players acquired by trade as well as those who were brought in and developed prior to the last 2 years.
  • srt January 30, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Am I the only one here who is tired of rehashing the past day in and day out?

    I’m looking forward to the future. What’s done is done.
    When was the last time we had 2 top prospects making their debut in the same season?

    We may not be going anywhere this year, but I can’t wait for the season to start.
    • TX January 30, 2013 at 11:45 am

      Amen.
    • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 11:48 am

      That’s the reason I compared it to Reyes and Wright. I completely hope that Harvey and Wheeler are the Reyes and Wright versions of pitchers.
      • srt January 30, 2013 at 11:51 am

        I love Harvey. I’m hoping his performance this season is the reason for my next Jersey purchase.

        Some analysts are saying that Wheeler has even better ‘stuff’ than Harvey. That may be true but there’s just something about Harvey’s bulldog type attitude. He’s stated he wants to be the next Mets ace. I say, ‘you go, Matt’.
    • Alex68 January 30, 2013 at 12:07 pm

      We may not be going anywhere this year, but I can’t wait for the season to start”

      Did you copy and paste THIS from 2011 and 2012???? Seems that’s the norm under this FO.
  • Connor O'Brien January 30, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    MMO Commenting Policy
    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/mmo-commenting-policy.html
    • RandomGuy January 30, 2013 at 5:53 pm

      This is a joke, otherwise everyone one of Alex’s posts would be deleted, if one person is allowed do it, everyone can. Don’t tell people not to do it, and let the obvious culprit continue doing whatever he wants. No offense but the admins to this board are a joke, otherwise by far the best blog.
  • Matt M February 4, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Alex, you really should root for another team. You seem more of an Angels fan or Dodgers fan to me.
• James Preller January 30, 2013 at 10:43 am

  A quibble, but I think a significant one: These high-ranked prospects are in no way a tribute to the Mets “system,” which I take to mean a combination of the club’s scouting, drafting, and development.

  It’s one thing to trade away established major leaguers for somebody else’s prized prospects. It’s entirely something else to demonstrate the smarts to develop those prospects on your own, within your own system. Then you’ve got something to crow about.

  So, I’m not buying the idea that the Mets system is suddenly anything worthy of respect and recognition. Not yet. Where are the position players?
  • Ken Tomlin January 30, 2013 at 10:45 am

    You know what? I can’t disagree with you. It’s true what you say and very relevant.
  • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 10:51 am

    “It’s one thing to trade away established major leaguers for somebody else’s prized prospects. It’s entirely something else to demonstrate the smarts to develop those prospects on your own, within your own system”
    Yup, I have said the same thing about the Braves. Is it nature or nurture?
  • Boomer January 30, 2013 at 11:13 am

    True enough. But the draft is often a reflection on the success of the MLB team and therefore the position of the draft picks.

    Look at the Nats. Was there anyone on the planet who was surprised that they chose two of the best young players of their generation, Strasburg and Harper, as back to back no. 1 picks in 2009 and 2010? They were only in position to do what anyone would have done because their MLB team stunk. As to development, neither required much. It was mainly a case of not screwing them up.

    My biggest complaint with the Mets farm over the years is that there never seemed to be a unified approach at the various levels on how to develop talent and so players often floundered as they moved from level to level, philosophy to philosophy. From all reports the Mets are trying to address that now. Plate discipline is one example. That is something that has obviously been stressed at the MLB level but it is now rippling through the minors as well.
    • Just-Da-Damaja February 4, 2013 at 10:04 pm

      the reason you dont see a consistent approach is because the wilpons constantly change and adapt their approach to public opinion….

      if they just stepped back…allowed a GM to shape the team in his image…a consistent image…than maybe we would have a system like that…

      but the wilpons have traditionally hired guys who were young or had lil experience…

      harazin – phillips – omar – duquette….

      none of those guys had any leverage here…

      and those are 4 of the 5 GM’s we’ve had since Cashen….

      I cant even count Sandy because Bud damn near forced him here….

      leave it up to Fred and I think John Ricco would be GM right now…

      and my money right now is on JP being the next GM ( Tommy Tanous being the new director of scouting? o wait, he’s a former JP scout from Toronto )

      JP pretty much had no GM prospects after he got ran out of Toronto…

      and this is the guy that just signed a 3 year extension here….
      • Joe D February 4, 2013 at 10:25 pm

        John Ricco was the number one contender until Bud sent Sandy.
        • Just-Da-Damaja February 4, 2013 at 10:28 pm

          YUP
        • Joey D. February 5, 2013 at 12:02 am

          Hi Joe D.,

          A few years ago Andy Martino wrote of Ricco:

          “one baseball insider said, “You know who he reminds me of? Jon Daniels.”
          Daniels, the impressive young general manager of the Texas Rangers, was briefly under consideration to become Mets GM, before the team decided on Sandy Alderson.
          “Those two are similar in that they both know what they don’t know,” said the person, who is acquainted with both. “They are extremely smart, but confident to admit when they need help with something.”

          That is a trait that is sorely lacking in Sandy Alderson. Those who work with say he lets people know he is the one in charge and that they have to do it his way.

          And that is what is hurting the Mets. He should never have been put in a position to run baseball matters because he is not a professional and should instead rely on others to give him their “vision” of what has to be done. He believes the game could be understood in terms of statistical analysis and being the one in charge, nobody dares tell him differently about the superficiality of his understanding . And the only ones who have the power to do so can’t because they are handcuffed by their friend, the Commissioner.

          http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/mets-hang-john-ricco-draws-comparisons-jon-daniels-work-gm-sandy-alderson-article-1.192669
• TJ January 30, 2013 at 10:46 am

  Two in the top 10, three in the top 30, none in 31-100. All obtained through trades of established all-star caliber MLB talent. Yes, this is an improvement, but I can’t help but notice Courtney Hawkins already at #68. Yes, that Courtney Hawkins with the RH OF power bat, the guy the Mets passed up on to draft their #1 pick that agreed to sign underslot and is nowhere to be found on this list. Oh, and the Mets 2nd round pick last year isn’t on this list either, since he went unsigned. So, Wheeler, D’Arnaud and Syndergaard are reason for excitement. but let’s not get too excited here.
  • Matt M February 4, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    LOL….I wanted Hawkins a month before the draft. I remember watching in disbelief. Two years straight – I hated the Nimmo pick too.

    This year I want Austin Wilson or Justin Williams. I’m not going to bother watching and getting pissed off when they pass on them.
• DrDooby January 30, 2013 at 10:59 am

  BP´s Jason Parks mentioned that Michael Fulmer will be on his Top 101 list (plus of course, D´Arnaud, Wheeler and Syndergaard).
  Sickels probably has Flores in his Top 100.

  Both Flores & Fulmer are in the # 80 to # 120 range of prospects right now – depending on taste.
  One can make a good case for Montero, Nimmo, Tapia, Familia, Cecchini and Mateo to all rank in the # 120 to # 200 range right now. That´d be 11 of the top 200 prospects overall.
  Of course, I´ve seen those guys (and Flores & Fulmer) ranked in various orders. The latter 8 all qualify as “B to B-” sort of prospects right now. Unfortunately, except for Familia, none of them figures to see the majors in 2013.
• jessep January 30, 2013 at 11:14 am

  I think it’s clear that the people who do these lists look for high impact potential. You never saw Daniel Murphy who is a .300 hitter at the top of these lists… why? Because he’s not a high impact talent. He’s pretty 1 dimensional as a hitter and is a below average defender.

  I think people who wish to hold onto the Minaya era (even though they likely helped run him out of here) hold onto guys like Ike, Duda, Gee, Murph, Niese, Tejada, Thole and point and say “see the farm wasn’t that bad.”

  But the problem is none of those guys have proven to be big impact talents. Sure we probably all feel Ike or even Niese can be – but they have yet to show that. All those players have proven is that they are just good enough to keep a job on a bad team.

  Would Duda, Gee, Murph or Tejada be the starting players at their position for a playoff team right now? I think it’d take some serious convincing.

  The HOPE is that the Mets currently have their share of Duda’s/Gee/Murph’s on the farm that the “experts” don’t value as much because they are focused on the cream of the crop.

  In today’s MLB you need as much young talent as you can get. Teams aren’t building through free agency any more – they are building on the farm and through trades just like the Dickey one.

  Harvey to me will be Omar’s greatest prospect (if you give the GM credit for all picks), but the fact remains the Mets had to trade some aging valuable players to “win now” teams in order to get true impact players who are within 1-2 years away.

  The Mets haven’t had as much excitement about their young players since Reyes/Wright. Those 2 players paved the way for what could have been a glorious time in Flushing. If Reyes/Wright weren’t on the rise, you wouldn’t have seen the Wilpon’s open up the checkbook for Omar to bring guys like Beltran here.

  The more young talent you accumulate the better position you’ll be in to not only compete on the field but also compete when guys like Stanton become available on the trade market.
  • Met Maniac January 30, 2013 at 11:28 am

    LMAO – How many high impact players did what Ike Davis did in the second half last year in home runs, RBI, slugging pct. and total bases? Yes, I thought so. And Jon Niese isn’t high impact enough for you? A 26 year old lefty who would be a number two on most teams and number three on a top team? Wow, it never ends with you.
    • jessep January 30, 2013 at 12:13 pm

      Hi Met Maniac, thanks for your reply

      Prince, Craig, Pujols, Konerko, Tex, AGone, Morneau, Encarnacion, Votto, Howard – has Ike Davis in the last 3 years proven to be have a greater impact than any of these guys have?

      The answer is no.

      Batting .255 in the 2nd half and claiming that as your positive “impact” on the team doesn’t fly with me I’m sorry. Yeah he hit for power, great. But what else did he do? I’m sorry but I’m not tagging a career .252, .797 OPS hitter a big impact player without an excellent season to show me otherwise. He CAN be. He isn’t yet.

      As for Niese, he’s a good player. But a true impact player? Come on. There’s a difference between what I’m saying and what Niese is. Niese is a player that every team has. He’s not a special talent, he’s a good pitcher. That doesn’t mean he’s bad, but he’s not some amazing talent that everybody circles on their calendar that they need to watch out for.

      Look at the other quality SP’s who debuted the same year as Niese: Cueto, Kershaw, Gio, Price

      You gonna try to say those guys are equal or less of an impact than Niese? Those are the players I talk about when I mean impact prospects.

      There’s “good” and there’s “special” and people expect Harvey, d’Arnaud, Wheeler to be special. That’s the difference.
      • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:24 pm

        I am still not that enamored with Gio and with the news coming out, I still think I would take Niese over Gio.
        • jessep January 30, 2013 at 12:29 pm

          Well okay lets do 2 things

          a) let me tell you I am so anti Gio especially after this story
          b) you cannot deny Gio’s 2012 season being better than anything Niese has ever done.

          I mean Gio is 1 year older but if you look at the last 3 years – you can’t say Niese has been better

          52-29 3.08ERA 602IP 495H 259BB 575K 1.25WHIP Gio last 3 years through age 26
          33-30 3.97ERA 521IP 544H 155BB 441K 1.34WHIP Niese last 3 years through age 25

          Can you argue you believe Niese will have a better career? Sure – you can try. But if you’re gonna try to tell me you’d rather have Niese 2010-2012 over Gio 2010-2012 I’m sorry I cannot buy that.
          • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:32 pm

            First question, was last year’s Gio really Gio or was it the juice and at what point can we count that?
            Second question, in terms of impact I am looking at the future as well. I like his upside better.
            • jessep January 30, 2013 at 12:38 pm

              Well look, I think Gio denying he has ever met Bosch will dictate the validity of whether Gio has taken stuff. If somebody finds proof that Gio knows Bosch, then he’s toast. One thing to be careful of, recently it came out that Bosch’s notepad lists Gio getting supplements that are NOT banned. Which is why I find it very odd that Gio is denying the relationship.

              But to your point – I don’t know. I don’t think anybody knows or will know. Gio just finished top 3 in the Cy Young. Niese is the same age now as Gio was when he did that. Are you saying Niese can be a top 5 NL pitcher right now?

              If not – when does the potential outweigh the recent performance? You’re gonna wake up and Niese will be 30, still a good pitcher but does that mean he was a special prospect?

              If you’re telling me you believe Jon Niese should be a #2 on a playoff team, then we agree to disagree. I don’t think calling him a #3 is a slap in the face.

              My point isn’t to knock Niese, my point is to say a lot of teams can and have pitchers like Jon Niese. Not a lot of teams can or get a chance to have pitchers with the potential of Harvey and Wheeler.
              • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:41 pm

                Again, look at the stats below. Before 2012, Gio and Niese’s stats are almost identical.
                • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:42 pm

                  Of course what I mean is Gio through 2011 and Niese through 2012 which would be a fair way to compare them IMO.
          • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:40 pm

            Also looking at stats, lets compare their first 95 starts, (It’s kinda eerie how this works out.)
            Gio’s stats before 2012:
            38-32 95 games 535 innings, 3.93 ERA, 1.41 WHIP

            Niese’s stats through 2012:
            35-32 95 games 561 innings, 4.06 ERA, 1.36 WHIP

            Looks like about the same level of pitcher to me. If you can 100% say that last year wasn’t the result of Gio’s trip to a Miami clinic then I will admit that Gio has taken the next step that Niese is expected to take this year.
            • jessep January 30, 2013 at 12:58 pm

              TRS – I can’t debate with you “what ifs” until we know what Gio did or didn’t do. I have to take his stats and compare them to Niese. I think we need to learn more about Gio/Miami before we negate his stats because as I said before – the report actually claims what Gio took was not a banned substance.

              If you’re asking me do I think Gio in 2010 and 2011 was more of a 1/2 than Niese in 2011/2012 my answer is absolutely yes.

              You have to consider Gio was pitching in the American League and still allowing less runs than Niese.

              31-21 3.17 402IP 346H 183BB 368K 1.31WHIP Gio 2010-2011
              24-20 3.86 347IP 353H 93BB 293K 1.28WHIP Niese 2011-2012

              I see in Niese a pitcher who relies more on his defense and park than Gio did by putting the ball in play more and better control for Niese.

              But I also see a higher ERA for Niese while pitching in the NL and that means something to me.

              I also saw Gio net 4 pretty good prospects in a trade and I do not think Niese would do the same.
        • jessep January 30, 2013 at 12:32 pm

          And I do not consider a guy who is a good #3 as a true impact prospect. Sorry, I don’t. I think he’s valuable – I think a lot of teams would like him in the middle of their rotation. But I consider true impact as a #1 or at worst a #2.

          An ace is harder to find and has a greater impact than a good #3 starter.

          That doesn’t mean Niese is bad. It means he’s not a special/impact talent
          • Met Maniac January 30, 2013 at 12:42 pm

            You are so full of crap. As usuall you distort my question you fraud. I said in the second HALF, not last three years. Only a Met hater like you would go last three knowing Ike was out for almost all of 2011 and was a rookie in 2010. You are terrible!
            • jessep January 30, 2013 at 12:51 pm

              Yes and I discussed the 2nd half as you’ll note above. His power was nice but there is more to baseball than occasional power. A .255 batting average in the 2nd half doesn’t qualify to me as a 2nd half to brag about I’m sorry.

              If you’re telling me Ike’s 2nd half was a depiction of who he will be as a baseball player, then he’s Adam LaRoche.

              Adam LaRoche is a good baseball player but he’s not an impact 1B. Before you get upset about the LaRoche comparison – LaRoche had more Total Bases in 2nd half, and more RBI than Ike.

              What is Ike Davis? Nobody knows. He’ll be a 26 year old 1B on Opening Day who’s greatest claim to fame is one 2nd half in which he hit 20HR but also hit .255.

              Sorry, I need to see more before I call him an elite 1B which is what I would classify as “impact prospect”
          • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:44 pm

            Before 2012 would you consider Gio an impact player and a true #1-2? Shouldn’t he at least have to back up that one season once before proclaiming him a true #1 or at least a #2?
            • srt January 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm

              I would think yes. And that’s not just for Gio but mostly all pitchers.
    • DrDooby January 30, 2013 at 12:25 pm

      Collin McHugh also had that great start vs. St.Louis in August…

      Seriously, I really like Ike & Niese as well and believe they can be part of the longterm core. However, while Niese took a big step forward in 2012, Ike still has to prove he can be a consistent run producer – not just an “on / off” type of player who is great for 8 weeks here but terrible for 8 weeks then to end up with mid-range numbers overall. An above average 1bman should finish a season with an .850 OPS. The 2nd half of 2012 or first six weeks of 2011 Ike certainly fits that profile. The 1st half of 2012, most of 2010 Ike except for very early and very late in the season doesn´t.

      As for these lists, the further you get away from the top 50 or so prospects, the more subjective and varied this gets. If you look at the Mets draft history under Minaya, they mostly went with college players – both early & late in the draft. Quite often even college seniors that were a year older than your normal draftee. Advantage: They advance more quickly. Downside: They often lack projection and pretty much are what they are.

      The new FO has picked young HS talents with 3 of their first 4 1st round (and supplemental) picks thus far and has generally drafted half college / half HS talent You can basically add at least two extra years of development time for these. Supposedly, work ethic and coachability has been a trait that was explicitly targeted in the last two drafts. Ultimately, results will count. Be it by helping the major league team or by helping as trade bait.

      Realistically, the “Alderson” drafts won´t have much of an impact before 2015. If then – which remains to be seen. The lasting impact of the “Minaya” drafts seems to be rather marginal – though Matt Harvey could certainly go a long way towards salvaging this (hopefully).
  • Just-Da-Damaja February 4, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    “but the fact remains the Mets had to trade some aging valuable players to “win now” teams in order to get true impact players who are within 1-2 years away.”

    Courtney Hawkins and Jose Fernandez are examples of where Sandy could’ve gotten potential impact players w/o having to trade for them
• Sloatsburg Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 12:36 pm

  Are there any Howard Stern Show listeners here?
  • Met Maniac January 30, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Greg Pomes is a HUGE Howard Stern fan. Me, I hate the guy.
    • TRS86 January 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm

      Which one, Stern or Pomes? LOL.
  • Bayonne Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    I’m a Howard Stern fan, was a BIG fan and loved his morning show in the 90s but when he went to Sirius couldn’t listen to him anymore.
  • srt January 30, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Not really but why? Is Howard Stern talking trash about the Mets?
• Frank January 30, 2013 at 1:34 pm

  Not drafted or developed by the Mets and by June won’t even be considered prospects anymore. Evaluating the system really should be based on what’s behind them, which while better still leaves a lot to be desired.
• Sloatsburg Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 1:47 pm

  Some of the people that post here remind me of one of his Whack Pack regular named Hanzi. He’s an OUTRAGOUS conspiracy theorist that suffers from paranoia and Tourrette Syndrome.
  • Metsie January 30, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    yeah and some remind me of the folks who followed
    Manson
    Koresh
    Jones
    Applewhite

    They all thought thier guy was the messiah as well and did anything to defend a leader who pretty much took everything they loved (but himself) from them….

    But I digress….
    Note to JoeD…Please lock up the Kool Aid cabinet it can be dangerous to leave open until after 2015….

    It will look real ugly with all the bodies laying all over the place when Sandy’s tenure dies and his cultists show thier devotion by ending it all…
• Joey D. January 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm

  Good, but again, only part of an true “rebuilding plan”.

  As many of us have been mentioning, the Mets have now assembled a nucleus of young, good talent. Forget about the debate about Dickey and Beltran. What we have now is a young starting rotation, a young backstop and a young infield manned by the veteran Wright at third.

  What we don’t have is an outfield. What we don’t have more than one or two capable relievers is a bullpen for Terry to work with.

  Until I see these other issues addressed seriously I would still not call this a worked out plan rather than the acquiring as many prospects as possible and hoping they work out. The odds on that happening are remote, not with the holes just mentioned.
  • DrDooby January 30, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    The Plan:
    Good young mlb core at modest to low overall cost
    +
    lots of payroll space from 2014 on
    +
    Improved farm depth to use in trades for established major leaguers to take team to next level
    • TJ January 30, 2013 at 4:25 pm

      Doobs,
      We all know the plan, and no less than 25 other MLB teams have the same plan. There is just no acceptable reason for Alderson to claim that he is not giving up on 2013, but at the same time not make any additional moves to improve the club. He still has time, but if this is the squad that produces the opening day 25 man roster, I will give him very low grades. Very low. I agree with the group that says the “core” is here or just about here. They need to fill the holes and get competitive with the Nats, Brave, and Phillies right now. Not tomorrow, not next offseason. 70 win seasons are for losers.
      • Boomer January 30, 2013 at 4:57 pm

        Are you planning to fund the missing millions that Alderson doesn’t have to make this happen right now? Because if not, how is he supposed to make these deals happen and pay the salaries?
        • Metsie January 30, 2013 at 6:37 pm

          Are you planning to fund what you seem to think is going so well so they can make all the FA deal you think they are going to make in 2014?

          Don’t answer I know where you live!
          • Boomer January 30, 2013 at 6:48 pm

            Maybe you should read this blog. Some good information here.

            A guy named Joe D. wrote the following.

            >>On the plus side for the Mets, the team could start spending again in the future, as they once did before the Madoff hiccup happened. Whether or not Alderson does though, is another story completely

            http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/mets-refinance-700m-in-debt-gain-160m-in-spending-money.html
            • Metsie January 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm

              He did say COULD…But he also said
              “Whether or not Alderson does though, is another story completely”

              Note he never suggested that we WERE going to spend in 2014 as the folks from the FLACCID seem to suggest….
              • Boomer January 30, 2013 at 7:10 pm

                Yes, he did. And since neither you nor I have the ability to predict the future all we are doing is giving our opinions. Your is of course going to include a personal attack and name calling that you feel you are entitled to make, mine will not.

                I do believe that when the Wilpons feel they are out of mortal financial danger as it relates to maintaining the team they will start to spend again. Differently than they did in the free spending days of the not to distant past but I do believe they will increase spending. To not do so would endanger their ability to hold on to the team.

                You can disagree all you want but it doesn’t make your opinion any more valid than mine.
                • Metsie January 30, 2013 at 7:14 pm

                  Do you believe they will turn a profit this year?

                  Tell us where the money will come from?

                  We know where it will NOT come from…
                  • Boomer January 30, 2013 at 7:22 pm

                    That is to a certain degree, irrelevant. They’ve been digging out of a very deep hole with multiple swords hanging over their heads including massive debt payments and of course a huge lawsuit. Worse of all may have been the uncertainty as they had to plan for worst case scenarios.

                    Most of the problems have at least been resolved and while they still have debts to pay they are known and manageable. So even if they lose money this year as long as they are on the trajectory toward profitability they can plan accordingly.

                    I reject your belief that they are unaware of the fact that they need to spend money to put a winning team on the field. Nothing in their history pre-Madoff years would suggest that they didn’t like spending money. But there is a big difference between wanting to spend and being able to spend.

                    I guess we”ll have to wait and see.
                  • Joey D. January 30, 2013 at 11:18 pm

                    Hi Boomer, been a while.

                    Are you really so confidence that the Mets have resolved their financial problems enough to they can begin re-investing more into player personnel? Not from all I’ve been reading. Also, if they are not going to loose money beginning let us say 2014, could it be because they are keeping spending down to the bare minimum.

                    That was my own thought before coming across this article written by MMO’s all time favorite, Howie

                    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2013/01/7070524/wilpons-get-cash-not-enough-bring-spending-back-mets
                  • Just-Da-Damaja February 4, 2013 at 9:01 pm

                    The nail in the coffin will be low attendance

                    You can fight a lawsuit with a good lawyer…

                    You cant force fans to come buy your product

                    and NY is a results oriented town.

                    …u can have 25 team ambassadors that kiss babies and smile for the camera…it wont matter…we will still not come buy your product if you are losing year after year…
        • Just-Da-Damaja February 4, 2013 at 9:05 pm

          You do realize you can cut and paste this line every year from here on end…

          if the mets do not provide a product worth seeing…people wont come…

          if people wont come…the mets dont make money…they cant invest in the team….

          they cant invest in the team….the team doesnt get better….less people come…

          less people come…the mets make less money….so on and so forth….
    • Bayonne Mets Fan January 30, 2013 at 4:49 pm

      No winning in that plan? You do realize you do have to give to get and make all kinds of hard decisions to remain in the hunt for the post season/world series right? And that those decisions can be TOTALLY independent of each other and sometimes you have to sacrifice talent or pay extra in order to remain in the hunt any particular year right?

      Boy it likes like and easy in theory and on paper. Just like that.
• Contrary to Published Reports, Mets Farm System Still Sucks | 2 Guys Talking Mets Baseball January 31, 2013 at 5:20 am

  [...] In one fairly representative piece, Craig Lerner at Metsmerized writes, “Mets Prospects & System Finally Getting the Recognition They Deserve“: [...]
• Matt M February 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm

  Yankees 4 spots ahead of Mets is a joke. The Mets system is better.
• Mr North Jersey February 4, 2013 at 5:24 pm

  I saw Mayo also released his 2013 Mets Top 20 prospects. Most are names I’ve seen mentioned before except for #20 German Rosario. He had the following to say regarding Rosario.

  “While he’s yet to play any official baseball in a Mets uniform, Rosario really stood out among much older players at instructs last fall, showing outstanding defensive ability as well as some serious bat speed that allowed him to hold his own against more advanced pitching than he had ever faced. More than anything, he looked like he belonged. He’s a long way away and there’s a lot of projection when it comes to a player like this, but he has the tools to be the real deal in the future.”

  As with all Mets prospects hopefully he develops one day into a solid future player for the Mets.
• Djmurphy February 4, 2013 at 11:33 pm

  Maybe there gunning for top pick this year.