28
2013
Beltran Says Collins Deserves Big Assist For Wheeler Trade
An article by 
I read a great article last night from David Lennon of Newsday, that I believe most of you will enjoy. Lennon got together with Carlos Beltran after the Mets lost to the Cardinals, and the former Mets center fielder looked back fondly at his time with the Mets and talked about his first years with the team when he helped David Wright adjust to the big leagues. But what I found most fascinating was what he had to say about Terry Collins who he says should get a lot of the credit for the Zack Wheeler trade.
Beltran had missed a lot of time during the 2009-2010 seasons and only played a total of 145 games in that span. But if not for Terry Collins the Mets might have never convinced the Giants to trade for him in 2011.
As Lennon points out, Beltran was hitting .289/.391/.513 through the first 98 games of that season and that might have never happened if not for the way Collins eased him back and worked out a plan that would ensure he would stay healthy enough to play a full season. It was a plan he implemented even before spring training began and was modified and readjusted as both Collins and Beltran kept in daily contact.
“I attribute that season to Terry Collins because of the way he communicated with me,” Beltran said. “The way he had a plan and listened to how I was feeling. He basically gave me the opportunity to get back.”
Though Sandy Alderson gets credit for making what some have said will go down as the best trade of his Mets tenure, Beltran suggested Wednesday that Terry Collins deserves a big assist for keeping him healthy enough to play at all. If Beltran’s knees stopped him from putting up decent numbers, there would have been no Wheeler trade.
Oddly enough, Collins may not even be around to see Zack Wheeler’s first full season in the majors, as the team refused to give him an extension this offseason, opting instead to let him play out his final year without any assurance that Alderson wants him back.
But that doesn’t bother Collins much, and he’ll go out there and do the best he can with the cards that he’s been dealt.
In many ways, just like Carlos Beltran, Terry Collins is another class act who doesn’t get nearly enough credit for his impact on this team. We don’t get too many class acts that come through Flushing lately, that’s why I’m always so appreciative of the few truly nice guys that have worn or still wear the Orange and Blue.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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I never fully understood why Beltran didn’t garner respect and appreciation from a large portion of the Met fanbase, but this is one of the classiest players everyt to wear a Met jersey, both on the field and off. I say this not just because he is nicey-nice after the fact, but because when healthy he performed as an elite player. maintained composure and class throughout some turbulent times and sticky siutuations, and was well respected by his teammates. It is hard to ask for more than that.
This.
Couldn’t believe the boos I heard from Met fans during that game at PSL yesterday when Carlos came up to bat. I’m thinking….really? Carlos definitely outclasses some Met fans.
2 things, his salary and the fact that he is very reserved. Before he came to the team I was a big Beltran fan but knew his daily approach was not a fit and fans would target him. He did nothing but bust his butt every day and played hard, he is just very reserved.
He also was so good he made it look easy. Everyone gets all pumped for the dude that hustles his butt off to snag a fly ball in the gap. Then you have Beltran who would already be there standing flat footed, drinking a Mai Tai, waiting on the ball to get to him. I doubt they will, but would love to have him back next year on a 1-2 year deal.
I agree. People wanted spectacle and bluster and that simply wasn’t who Beltran was. That isn’t to say he wasn’t passionate, just that he let it manifest in different ways. He let the results speak for themselves.
He was till a leader and a good teammate. He just didn’t want to shuck and jive for the crowds.
I still remember a May 2009 ESPN game of the week with the Mets where Phillips was going on and on about how the Mets will never win with Beltran, he’s not a leader, he’s not a team player, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah….Beltran was our problem in those down years. Shaking my head and rolling my eyes.
I don’t think any one person was harder on Beltran than Joe Benigno. For some reason the guy hated Beltran. One of the reasons why I think Joe Benigno is a clueless moron.
Kevin McReynolds was treated poorly by Met fans too because it looked like he didn’t care but the guy played as a good a LF defense that has ever been played by a Met and produced 4 pretty damn good year for the Mets and hit some huge HR’s for them. After an article where he said he’d rather be hunting and fishing than playing baseball Met fans slaughtered the guy.
Everytime I see Kevin McReynolds name I am taken back to late night radio with WFAN Steve Somers talking about, “The Silent Assassin”.
K-Mac was so much better than what he’s remembered for as a Met. Solid all around player.
Was not a Mac fan. I wanted the most feared and dangerous met of all time Kevin Mitchell to be out there in LF.
K-Mac was no where near treated “poorly” til the end
the main villian in the press at that time was Strawberry…Kevin was hiding in the woods
I always thought K-Mac was to the Mets what Charles Smith was to the Knicks…
and if u remember…Smith replaced X-Man, in our case, K-Mac replaced Kevin Mitchell
“the fact that he is very reserved”
but Reyes was the complete opposite and got blasted for that too…
and Jason Bay was reserved…and got a pass for being a good teammate…hustling….ummm…being “gritty”
me thinks the media plays favorites if you know what i mean
Bay got a pass the first year because of the health issues. And then, he started getting hammered by boos every time he came to the plate.
I know you have your thing to hide behind, but the facts are against you.
Last year at a game, I pointed out to my brother, that it obvious that when Bay would come to bat the walk up music got considerably louder to block out the boo’ing.
Bay did not get a pass after the first year.
Beltran was unfairly blamed for taking strike 3 against the Cardinals which I always thought was BS on the part of Met fans. Lets be honest: that was one of the best breaking balls in baseball at the time and Beltran a legitimate hitter. It wasnt as if Carlos wanted to have his knees locked in that situation. The guy made a good pitch.
One of the problems with Beltran is that he was so fluid. He made things look effortless out there which many could take to mean he didnt care. Know I cannot say what fire burns(ed) within him for winning or not but I do believe he wanted to be on the field as much as he could. Few remember that he came back in September (2009 I believe) after being out a fair portion of the season and played 30 games with the Mets miles away from the playoffs. He didnt have to do that. But he did.
No matter how you slice it, Beltran was one of the best everyday players in Met history. If you do not buy into that, look at the Met all time hitting stats and see how many categories he is in the top 10.
He came to the Mets and produced poorly his first season after signing a huge contract. He’s was great after that, but then the injury bug sapped him of playing time. Beltran was the victim of high expectations that all fans had for those teams. When they failed to produce, the one holding the biggest paycheck that can’t stay on the field usually takes the fall.
Sure, Santana made more and Bay was a disaster, but Beltran was the target. I think people knew the feeling was mutual ever since he had to be forced from the dugout by Julio Franco after that homerun. Beltran had a point in not wanting to go out there, his disdain for the fair weather fans was obvious in that decision, but it would have only helped him to embrace that love if only to show a different side of himself then the reserved, quite ball player he seemed to be.
Also, the Wainwright curveball didn’t help; no matter how unhittable that pitch was. This is just a fact of life when someone accepts the responsibility that comes with a 100 million dollar contract. You’re not supposed to go down looking. The mentality in the fan’s perspective is that for that type of cash, you go down swinging.
Was he under appreciated? Absolutely. There’s no debating that fact, but at the same time, not every player becomes a fan favorite; especially the quite ones.
I agree with you on the 2005 thing. He had his worst full season as a big leaguer in the year when he just signed a mega contract. That doesn’t help. Having to be pushed out of the dugout by Franco doesn’t help either.
Then he had his best season as a pro the year after but strike 3 seemed to unfairly wipe that off the board (that was a nasty pitch).
The problem really was that he is a reserved guy who was expected to be a new york superstar and his epic playoff performance put him on that stage. Before that playoff performance he was just a very good ballplayer. The playoffs flipped the story and forced him to be judged on greatness.
He was a very good Met. I don’t really agree with the boo’s. I don’t see the point to be honest. He did his best to play out his contract and in the end he netted us a high ceiling young arm. I’d rather that result than how it ended with Jason Bay.
Nearly having his career derailed after a head on collision with Cameron didn’t help matters in his first season. They brought him in and thrust Beltran into an immediate controversy because they decided to keep Cameron rather than trade him. So on top of the pressure of the contract alone he showed up to camp with someone who had daggers in his eyes in Cameron who was hot as hell and wasn’t afraid to let everyone know it either. The collision was inevitable as Cameron practically railroaded Beltran on any ball that was legitimately the center fielder’s call. So lets not forget that whole drama that was being played out until the inevitable collision.
Fair point. I don’t know what the impact of that was on his performance. If it was injury related, I can understand. If it was ego related then I don’t accept it. We’ll never know to be honest.
You reminded me of a similar situation when the Mets got Piazza and shove Hundley to left field, or when the Yankees got A-Rod a gold glove shortstop and pout him at third to stick with the no-range Jeter at short. Sometimes teams make additions without regard to the fact they already had those positions well manned. You hear the excuse that it’s a good problem to have, but it really isn’t and more often than not someone pays the price that shows up in the performance. Mets fans should recall the boos that reigned down on Piazza in his first few weeks as he struggled at the plate while dealing with the Hundley situation who was cast aside to LF and creating a very uncomfortable situation for both players. And there was no spring training break-in period for Hundley/Piazza because it happened mid season. Of course getting Piazza was great but at the same time I would have shipped of Hundley to a number of teams that would have paid handsomely for him at the time coming of back to back 41 HR and 30 HR seasons and being a solid defender.
The fact that Beltran came back so fast to play with a broken eye socket after that colision should’ve been enough for Met fans to see the guy was not soft as the majority of Met fans made him out to be. The guy could’ve missed the remainder of the year after that but he only missed a few games. Joe Benigno among others would question his toughness for taking to long to come back from an injury. Benigno’s famous Beltran could miss a month over a hangnail rant is what many Met fans believed. Beltran played banged up a lot.
….and this is why we need more diversity in sports journalism….
No we need hire standards. Stupid is stupid in any language.
er higher standards.
The fact that Mets fans take what a guy like Benigno says serious and/or are convinced of things based on what he says….is scary.
Beltran was great.
the problem is that most “reporters” just piggyback and repeat rumors off of each other.
So 1 persons rumor or opinion gets repeated over and over and over…
the walter reed hospital incident was a prime example.
it started as a “rumor” that jeff wilpon was mad at beltran, castillo and ollie ( but surprise surprise…he gives a pass to Gee ) for not showing up…
and somehow this rumor makes it to the press in warp speed to adam rubin’s ears…
Scott Boras warned the Wilpons that pulling stunts like this would not make it any easier to attract top free agents in the future
Scott and the wilpons had been fighting all through the year…
first with beltran’s knee….
than with ollie and giving him a shrink vs sending him down
than with the hospital incident…ollie and beltran ( and castillo ) were caught in the cross fire
The Walter Reed visit as far as Beltran was concerned was completely overblown and wrong, I agree 100%.
However, Gee was excused because he was pitching the same night, so I’d hold off on the conspiracy theory.
Castillo just flat out refused to go because he “didn’t like to see that”, and Perez flat our refused to answer why he didn’t go.
While Perez had the right to refuse minor league assignment, he was one of the most selfish players and deserves the bad press he got for the Walter Reed incident as well as what happened after refusing to go to the minors.
So while Beltran should NOT have been lambasted in the media about not going, I feel Castillo and Perez deserved what they got.
Beningo is nothing but a schtick and Roberts is nothing but favoritism. Neither of them are any more qualified to do what they do and tons of average fans on blogs.
I remember when Benigno was just a caller on WFAN.
Do you remember when Roberts was a child and his mother had to call up Francesa and ask him to take her son’s call?
LoL, No stop playing did that really happen?
When he was a kid, like maybe 10-12 years old, someone got him the update gig on Imus. And his mom would call the station hotline during Mike and the Mad Dog and tell the producer Evan wanted to talk and they would just put him on instead of us other poor schmucks who have to call the studio line and wait on hold.
Mind you I wasn’t in the room for any of this, but I do remember him doing the updates on air and the rest I read and heard from various other people, and they all corroborated the story. I used to work for CBS radio, albeit in a capacity much different than Evan does now and I’ve never met or spoken to any of the involved personalities.
That would be one funny clip to hear.
Wow, are you kidding me? I never heard that story before. I do remember Beningo calling in and then they were doing this contest the week between Christmas and New Years one year, and everyone got to vote for who would be the next overnight guy on Sundays or something like that. So they had tryouts on the air like two hour blocks.
Yeah, all this is very heresay. The only thing that’s for sure is his update gig on Imus before he even hit puberty. That said, if the other stuff isn’t true, there’s one hell of a conspiracy against him.
Well, I have heard he’s not big on the frat house mentality that goes on there and other sports media places, so they make sure to remind him how outside he is.
But, like you said, a lot of speculation and hearsay.
Beltran, Collins and Alderson are class acts, one and all. Their presence, sophistication and skills still eludes many of the Mets fans who can’t get beyond being naysayers.
I loved Carlos as a ballplayer who made many good things happen in his days with the Mets. Now I love Collins and Alderson. Thanks for the great article, Joe D.
I too thought that Carlos Beltran was a terrific player for the Mets. Unfortunately, he got a bad rap for that strikeout looking in 2006. New York fans are often very knowledgeable but are also very cruel and unforgiving. When you add in the savagery of the media you get spewed poison.
Carlos was a very proud player. He would play hurt but he had the legs of a thoroughbred race horse and could be brittle. The only thing that bothered me about Carlos was that off season where he didn’t have his knee surgery until January and that cost us half a season without him. It may well have been a situation that he like many Latin ballplayers have of being skeptical when it comes to surgical procedures.
Being that players these days are handsomely paid it is my opinion that those who can’t finish a season in good health should take a two week vacation after the season ends and then immediately have any surgeries necessary. Of course they should be allowed to get a 2nd opinion but far too much time elapses in many cases. Likewise, teams pay players for a season’s availability to perform for them…..this WBC classic is a joke! If I am a GM, I don’t allow any of my players to participate when they should instead be in spring training!
No ifs,,,and or buts on this point!
“The only thing that bothered me about Carlos was that off season where he didn’t have his knee surgery until January and that cost us half a season without him. It may well have been a situation that he like many Latin ballplayers have of being skeptical when it comes to surgical procedures”
If you remember….Beltran’s knee injury started when he dove for a ball and landed on his knee in early May….they gave him cortizone shots…and the bruise tripled in size….they still never operated….they just told him to “rest”….then in September he comes back and finishes the season…even when we were 100 games out of 1st place…he came back strictly on pride….AND leadership…
than during christmas, he began running on a treadmill when he felt a sharp pain in his knee…he called his doctor…who recommended surgery….
that doctor got the clear from the mets doctor…
they then got on a conference call with the wilpons, omar and the doctors…
everything was good to go….
2 days later, while Beltran was on the plane to CO., jeff wilpon says he has a change of heart…
he has a gut feeling surgery wouldnt work…
apparently his medical degree from FL community college trained him well for this moment
Beltran doesnt get the message until surgery was over.
…this is when the Wilpons attempt to void his contract…
no coincidence that this happens after the Madoff scandal…
The Wilpons then sell the story to the press that Beltran is selfish and only thinks of his career first…
No mention of him playing in September 2009…
No mention of him retaliating with his messed up knee in 2010 after Chase Utley drop kicked Tejada…
But 3 years later…memories get fuzzy and all u remember are a couple of lines Cerrone or Rubin spewed out…
It wasn’t Beltran who stopped him from getting Surgery it was the team….
They kept telling him no and when the Pain was not going away he said screw yuou I’m getting the operation which at that point cost him another half a season it didn’t have to if they just operated from the get go.
Beltran was a tremendous player for the Mets when healthy and also was a quiet leader. Somewhat similar to David Wright right now, he got blamed for misfortunes generally out of his control. The Mets didnt lose because of Beltran when they lost but rather because the complementary cast wasn´t good enough (or the Mets got unusually unlucky).
Overall, Beltran probably was the best higher profile free agent that Omar Minaya signed in his tenure and by far the worthiest one both at the time of the signing and in retrospect.
And looking ahead at 2014, he´d also be a pretty good target for a shorter term contract as a free agent.
during his healthy periods, I think Beltran was easily the best position player (overall, counting all facets of the game) the mets have ever had. he had some huge years with the bat, while also being a top baserunner and glove guy.
statistically speaking, beltran is the best free-agent position player ever signed in met history.
RA Dickey is the best SP ever signed in met history.
Aside from production, both are humanitarians, class acts, and just overall considered good people.
How on earth were both vilified ( beltran up to 2011 and Dickey at the end ) is beyond me
I think we all have our little physical reactions when caught up in the middle of a crucial at-bat even if sitting on the couch eating popcorn. I remember as the ball came in, I thought it was going to be high and as it began dropping into the strike zone at the last minute, right before it reached the plate I felt my stomach reacting as if I too was frozen at the plate, it being too late to commit to a swing.
Don’t anybody say it was the popcorn that did it.
Crediting Terry Collins for taking the steps that enabled Beltran to have such a comeback season thus increasing his trade value which resulted in gettng Wheeler reminded me of my reply to an older post about about how the Mets trading Ron Hunt eventually led to the 1969 Miracle for he was traded for Tommy Davis who in turn was traded for Tommie Agee. I mentioned that we should go a step further back and thank Frank Bolling for securing the job at second with the old Milwaukee Braves thus affording the Braves the opportunity to sell Hunt’s contract to New York.
So with Carlos, maybe we should go back and thank Allard Baird for not wanting to re-sign him as a free agent back in 2004 – if not for that, Carlos would never have been a Met and therefore neither would Zack.
I think with that particular AB, the problem was not taking that curveball. It was flat out taking the 1st 2 very hittable FBs that got him in the 2K hole. Wainright was struggling with control, seemed nervous, and basically IIRC laid in a couple of fat ones to avoid falling behind. So who knows what would have happened if he had gone up looking for a pitch like that and ready to rip at the first pitch.
and since Hojo was hitting coach at the time, you know he was not told to take pitches!
it was the line drive reyes hit that fell in edmonds glove that sank my heart….
had that ball just been a few feet to the left…anderson hernandez races home with the game winning run
correction:
the tying runs score…and reyes = winning run is standing on 3B with 1 out…
Hi Just,
Please don’t remind me of that Reyes liner – when it went off the bat I felt for sure the game was going to be tied. Then when LoDucca walked, I felt that maybe we were getting a second chance.
Correction: Rick Down was hitting coach at the time.
Most credited Rick Down with helping Reyes up his OBP from .300 to .350 in 2006.
He was unfortunately a casualty of politics.
He was Willie’s only trusted choice in the dugout…and by then, Tony B had Jeffy’s ear…
Tony supposedly went to HoJo…and asked him why was the team slumping at the plate ( esp with RISP )…HoJo said he had the secret trick to get them on track…they canned Down, promoted HoJo…then the rest is history….
I lost so much respect for HoJo after that…
even when the mets were performing like crap at the plate in 2010…he was pretty much holding on as David Wright’s buddy…
then when he gets moved out the position, he refuses a reassignment to any other position.
and HoJo was my favorite player as a kid in the early 90′s…so it hurt a lil extra to see how that played out…
here was HoJo’s infamous interview from last year
http://www.nextlevelballplayer.com/clubhouse-convo/clubhouse-convos-with-howard-johnson/
What are you’re thoughts about “working the count”?
What’s the objective when you come to the plate? To get a pitch to hit. That’s why you’re called a ‘hitter.’ What if the best pitch to hit is the first one? The umpire becomes more of a factor the deeper you get in the count. I want the ump involved as little as possible. Just me against the pitcher. The game has always been about hitting. You have to hit to score runs. When you go to the plate you should always be ready to hit. Some coaches try to make players better by having them work deeper in the count, but I think that’s a bunch of crap. A hitter should be ready to hit every pitch.
The way the Beltran situation was held from the day he walked into camp last year is definitely a plus on Collins resume.
Rather the way it was handled in 2011.
Contrast Collins approach with Beltran to Willie Randolphs approach to Cliff Lee. Willie insisted on running Cliff out there every day knowing he had bad knees and when he needed him for the 06 playoffs he was a gimp. Kudos to Terry and Kudos to Carlos for letting us know about this.
If the Mets were in the playoffs or fighting for any playoff spots in any of those years Beltran was struggling with his knee he would have been run out there too. Easy to look back years later and second guess.
I must have been on an acid trip when it happened, but when did Cliff Lee play for the Mets? lol
sorry to upset you bayonne, I know how you love those yankees.
Sorry you think I’m a Yankee fan because i disagree with your take on Beltran.
willie really needed cliff in the lineup every day in 2006 because it was such a close race that year, my bad,
and same would have happened with Beltran – as much as possible. That makes me a Yankee fan i guess.
the fact that you dont even know 2006 was a runaway year for the mets doesnt help your case bmf
The fact that i’m not talking about 2006 and you should have known that by my very first post just proves how out of touch with reality you are. But then we know that by reading most of your other ridiculously lazy posts.
Let get it on the record and clear…
Terry Collins has been very good for this organization…Even before he became manager!
Is he the biggest Stategist and Fox you could hope for? NOPE!
He is a good motivator and tactician and if he was given the opportunity to manage as long as a guy like Bobby Cox might even learn, gain enough experience and become to be one of the great Managers….
But his personality is so UP (the guy is like a man who shoots Meth in the morning while the rest of us drink Coffee). It can wear on some Vets, lose it’s effectiveness because no one can ever be as UP as Collins is, and is not the EVEN KEEL that many think is required for long term stability.
What he does is good but it doesn’t play long term. And in Collins’ defense has HAS toned it down quite significantly from his previous stints as Manager where he got into a bit of trouble.
Truth is he has fairly earned an extention. He has NOT been the issue with this team in fact things could have been much worse if not FOR his being up all the time. Maybe a little tantrum like he had in September 2011 was in order during the losing streak in July…
Perhaps he snaps them out of it and saves the season.
Didn’t happen and I have to think it was the FO’s lack of movement that frustrated him as much as it frustrated the players….
He was given Chopped Liver to work with and asked to keep the steaks coming…
Not Possible even for the best manager in the game…
You simply can’t polish a turd….
Betran Class Act as Met and an awesome ambassador for Baseball in PR
Terry Collins Class Act considering what he has been given to work with along with injuries.
At least we know that TC won’t pull a JM and keep a young, not ready for prime time rookie pitcher in his BP to save his job, regardless of future for player or team.
Two class acts, Nuff Said!
Terry if anything goes too far the other direction, and keeps the young guys that should be getting a chance buried on the bench.
Sorry Sarge but i’ve had enough of Terry Collins already. I’m sure he’s a nice guy but enough.
This we can agree on. Nice guy, I think he was probably a fantastic MiL coordinator, but not all that good as a field manager.