YES and MSG Networks Trump SNY In 2012 Viewership

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• TruthsaboutMMO January 17, 2013 at 9:20 pm

  Better players=better team=better ratings=more money

  You’d think something would give here…
• Joey D. January 17, 2013 at 9:32 pm

  Hi Rob,

  If nothing more, that sends a message that Sandy’s rebuilding plan is also hurting his bosses on the television advertising revenue as well as that of attendance, since both are holdings of Sterling Equities along with other minority partners.
  • matthew balasis January 18, 2013 at 10:52 am

    This is a really important report because it reinforces, more or less based on subscribers, the “guestimate” that SNY is about one third the value of YES, which was formally appraised at around 3 billion. So SNY is worth something arund 1 billion. Why is this important? Because Wilpon just mortgaged 700 million on his 65% share of SNY which if you do the math, is pretty close to being leveraged to the hilt.

    1.The Wilpons are running out of collateral.
    2.They can’t keep losing money and expect to hold onto the team
    3. Sandy refuses to spend for the sake of selling a few tickets in 2013 because (as was noted on another thread yesterday) we’re over 40 million (in spending) from even scratching at a wildcard — so adding payroll now in the form of big contracts would only hamstring the franchise down the road when his “critical mass” of talent matures.
    4. MLB appears to have injected it’s own austerity program on a struggling big market franchise (in the form of Sandy Alderson) which amounts to a sink or swim framework for ownership.

    I actually suspect this was done to establish a precedent after the Dodger fiasco where McCourt was using the Dodgers as his personal bank account. I think from here on out whenever an owner flounders MLB may (formally or not) impose a level of financial control and oversight to protect its baseball property interests.

    The good news is it may mean there is still hope for those who would love to see the Wilpons out of the picture.
    • Metsie January 18, 2013 at 11:14 am

      Actually Matt….
      They did not take a new mortgage out they simply refinanced the previous loan at a sunstantial savings on interest payments….

      That move actually decreased the amout they are leveraged on SNY.

      And by doing so they were able to take back some equity on thier initial investments.

      The only reason why Yes (and MSG as well) is valued higher is they have other teams in different leagues that generate ad revenue outside of baseball…

      MSG has Basketball and Hockey but misses out on Baseball season
      Yes has Baseball and Basketball which is the best two to have due to the schedules. They also have the Devils I think (could be wrong there)
      SNY only has baseball season and after that it’s UCONN and Beer Money!

      They need another team….
      • Matt Balasis January 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm

        They went from owing 450 million to owing 700 million, how is that decreasing the amount they owe? It was like a second mortgage with an additional loan (off the equity) of 240 million and a cash out of 160 million. The 240 and 160 were tacked on to the original amount, sure it’s all at a lower interest rate but in the end my point is that the 65% share of SNY is mortgaged about as much as it can be, which means they won’t be able to go back to that well again any time soon.
        • Metsie January 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm

          The payments are lower and over a longer period of time….

          The total is 700Mil but by the time they get to the end 700MIl ain’t worth 700Mil anymore!

          And I’m not even sure of the numbers your using….
          You seem to be adding too many numbers that really just relplaced OLD numbers with newer numbers.

          And the money they took out is meant to be re-invested at a higher rate than the loan rate and therefore pays the loan off and all it’s interests using money FROM the loan….

          Just as deferring money on a player contract gets invested in the hopes it generates more revenue than they need to pay the deferred with interest. Money now making money LATER…
      • Matt Balasis January 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm

        They need another team….

        The Nets would be an ideal partner, they shouldn’t be on the YES network, it’s not right. Also, when you consider how many more teams MSG has than either of the other two, it’s surprising that SNY was even close — tells you about the market share of Baseball in the NY Metro market.

        SNY:
        Mets
        Jets

        YES
        Yankees
        Nets

        MSG
        Giants
        Rangers
        Knicks
        Islanders
        Devils
        • Joey D. January 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm

          Hi Matt,

          I think there would be higher television ratings for the Mets had the current ownership and front officed not turned off the fans from watching. Even last September when MMO still had it’s shout box, many of us were conversing while maybe only one was actually watching the Met game that was on at the time.
          • Metsie January 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm

            Joey I don’t see where the Owners turned people off to watching if anything they did everything possible to boost ratings by making seats and a stadium some fans don’t like…

            It wasn’t the owners it was apathy with the team…They punted in July for the second year in a row and lost all the ratings they might have had in August and September like the Yankees who were in a playoff situation got…

            Thats reallly the difference in the ratings….One was worth seeing, the other was just playing out the string…With only one ending possible…TO BE CONTINUED IN 2013….
        • Metsie January 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm

          LOL WHile I agree they would be a perfect fit your never going to get the Nets as they are one of the major Partners (or were maybe not now that they were sold I Think Ratner may still have the network piece) in creating the YES network….

          Thats also why they had more households to draw from in the early days and SNY struggled to get Cablevision (Comcast and Time Warner were SNY partners and brought households to the deal).

          They do need a Winter Pro Team to be all they can be though….
          Best shot might be the Islanders who are moving to Brooklyn but not sure what their TV deal is and even if they could make a new one YES is going to look very good to them considering thier already present at the Barclay Center due to the Nets.Maybe they can pry the Devils away from MSG but I’m not sure they are even worth having as they have sucked ever since they won thier cup…

          And I can’t really say SNY has the jets anymore than the others could if they wanted to….
          Thats the problem they have as a regional network they will never get NEAR having an NFL contract.
• BadBadLeroyBrown January 17, 2013 at 9:33 pm

  Well we know for sure they wont post this over at SNyBlog Ooooops I mean Metsblog.
• tlagee January 17, 2013 at 9:56 pm

  Well, first attendance – now the other shoe has dropped.

  You cannot have a baseball team in such a sad state of disrepair and expect to make any money.

  For the umpteenth time – it take money to make money.

  Maybe – if the Wilpons are in such bad shape that they are putting all the money they are saving into repaying debt, they should wake up, smell the coffee and sell.
  • srt January 17, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    What you said….

    I don’t think making money is even in the Wilpon’s sights right now. Hanging onto the team and ‘preserving their legacy’ seem to be their main objective. At some point though you have to invest in the team if you expect to compete.
    • Joey D. January 17, 2013 at 10:08 pm

      Hi srt,

      I really don’t know what is going through Wilpon’s mind right now. As others have pointed out, Fred is a shrewd business person who made his money so he might very well be thinking in long term now for as we know, many a business loses money for many years until finally turning a profit which offsets all those loses and makes them money. Amazon.com is one example, only last year or so finally making money.

      But his desire to retain the Mets as his legacy is well known and to what degree this is affecting his judgement is anybody’s guess. I just have to believe that whatever his reasons, it had to be well thought out and long-term in nature – though please note that being “well thought out” does not mean the plan itself is “well thought out”.
    • tlagee January 17, 2013 at 10:13 pm

      srt – I agree that hanging on to the team is foremost in Freddie’s mind. He has said he wants to keep the team in the family (for Jeff, I guess).

      But, despite what Yankee fans think, New York has always been a National League town. It was true with our grandparents, our parents and now with us. Shea’s last year drew over 4 million fans – averaging just under 50 thousand fans a night.

      If you put a good product out there then fans will come. And if they can’t go to the ballpark, they will watch. And that’s how money is made.

      If Fred wants to pay down his debt – wouldn’t it make more sense for him to make money with the club? Invest a bit more to make the team competitive?

      Instead, they are trying to make us fans believe that their intention is to treat the Mets as a small market team and build from within. A hard thing to sell after not resigning Reyes.

      Yes, we get it – the Wilpons don’t have a lot of cash to throw around. Well, then sell.

      I just don’t get it.
• Met Maniac January 17, 2013 at 10:17 pm

  Didn’t the Wilpons leave MSG for greener pastures in the first place? LMFAO! What a joke this team and it’s ownership has become. And the whole SNY outfit which is like amateur hour at comedy club. it’s all such an embarrassment! I bet they must see all the money the Nats, Phils, Dodgers, Angels get from their regional network deals and cry themselves to sleep at night!
• Mitch Petanick January 17, 2013 at 11:29 pm

  I wonder if the MSG ratings would have been higher had it not been for that dispute with Time Warner where there was no MSG for those customers for like a month or two?
  • Joey D. January 18, 2013 at 10:46 am

    I also wonder if MSG ratings were hurt by not having the Rangers and Islanders games due to the lock out?
• Metsie January 18, 2013 at 1:21 am

  I think there are some points to be made about this….

  Not sure if STILL is the case but Yes and MSG was for a time available in more households than SNY…

  What were the SHARE ratings for each….
  Those are more telling for a regional network than households…

  Housholds is limited by the number of households your in…
  Share is based on the percentage of all the households who did watch it from all those who could.
• srt January 19, 2013 at 8:45 pm

  Just came across this which is relevant to this article:

  It’s worth wondering if Hal Steinbrenner, who (at least for the Yankees) is tightening the purse strings, makes any decisions with an eye on how they impact the Yankees Entertainment & Sports Network, which was the most watched regional sports network in 2012, but still saw its Yankees ratings hit a nine-year low.

  http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/raissman-ron-gary-keith-expanded-role-article-1.1243263#ixzz2ITZeN4Mk
  • Metsie January 19, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    Well the ratings for TV in general are WAY DOWN….
    Between the viewership being spread thin over ever increasing number of networks and the price of Cable service going to upwards of $200+

    People are going to the internet to get thier TV and even much of thier Sports as well…

    I watched the entire Miami Dolphins season worth of football games online and only watched on TV when they were the national game or played the Jets.

    The TV industry is going through a phase that is going to change it forever and may even kill all that big money MLB gets from National Rights fees if the TV nets are not careful and figure out which way to go.

    Music industry practically died resisting the digital age, Radio still has not recovered from what TV did to it.

    Add DVRs to it and the ratings picture and things said regarding it are not as reliable as they used to be.