Yes instead of 20-1 they might move to 10-1 but thats not what you should be looking at….

Adding that much would have a much GREATER impact on the Attendance that if it starts to go up will pay for even BETTER signings in those years you think the Playoffs ARE wrth going for and within reach.

The way your thinking is saying that if your not going to get into the playoffs don’t sign anyone…

And all that does is ensure all the players you THINK can get you there that are already here get a year older and more expensive and you just pushed whatever year you think you WILL get there back another year!

You have to CONSTANTLY improve your team….Even in years you think it will not result in a playoff!
Do that and you won’t have the TOO FAR AWAY excuse to say don’t spend forever….
But the way your thinking you NEVERget to the point that spending is worth doing which means your just the Pirates and Oakland…
A few teases of season that looks like a success and then no glory back to cutting and rebuilding hoping it works in the next cycle.

The same language where “payroll rank” = “attendance rank” ?

I was specifically talking about the pitching coach

why are we keeping him ?

Well considering that as it stands, they are spending at a maximum, 69 million dollars….another 15 million would give them an outrageous 84 million dollar payroll….

I think a Bourn and a Valverde ( or really another veteran closer, im not a valverde fan ) would help the CORE actually perform better. these elements dont exist in isolated vacuums, there is an eco-system that produces results. adding a good defensive CF, who is also a leadoff hitter, has a good spiral effect on the team offensively and defensively as well as the pitching staff. this will help your chances in 2014

# 2 It doesn´t make sense to invest in high-end furniture when the house your´re building isn´t even finished yet.

And yet they did just that with signing David Wright to a 138 mil contract.

I say there is no sense in investing in David Wright to that much money if you are going to not have an eco-system that cultivates talent. We can argue all day over whether he is worth it or not. I think its a pretty clear argument that if you invest in him, u dont stop there or you further risk devaluing the investment…even worse, the CORE is negatively affected as well.

IMO – this is where having a supreme coaching staff ( which we dont have ) is important.

How Sandy keeps both Ray Ramirez ( after lord knows how many goof-ups ) and Dan Warthen ( after lord knows how many goof-ups ) is beyond me….

# 1 2013 is the final year with pretty significant obligations from the past on the books. Combine an official payroll of slightly above 100 million $ (actual payouts: probably closer to 80 million) with a team that projects to finish below .500 and odds are, you are bound to lose money. Would adding another 15 to 20 million $, say into Michael Bourn and Jose Valverde for example change the Mets playoffs odds significantly ? I doubt it, though each would be a nice addition regardless, for sure.

# 2 It doesn´t make sense to invest in high-end furniture when the house your´re building isn´t even finished yet. The house being a hopefully strong enough core group of players such as Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler, Travis D´Arnaud to complement David Wright, Jon Niese and hopefully Ike Davis (with a consistent full year). A year from now, that should be in place, so you can start adding pieces.
This winter, you´d only want to target bargains and not chase the overheated market on talent that figures to regress beyond 2013.

Yet today we heard Alderson say they are NOT the reason we didn’t spend….

So WHY didn’t we spend this year?

Are they paying ALL of it or just the part Boston isn’t?

And are they borrowing money from some other business of thiers or merely using the money they got from selling BROADCAST rights to pay the bill short term until they can weed out some of the more expensive players they don’t intend to keep?

‘The Mets problem from 2010 through 2012 was an ownership group that didn’t have the money / liquid assets to support a franchise that was losing money.’

This.
I’ve been saying all along the Wilpons are either unable or unwilling to invest in their team these past few years. IMO, it was unable and it was quite evident with all that went on with Madoff, the billion dollar lawsuit, the down revenues, etc.

At point I believed the more they lowered the debt on the team, the more profit they would make if they had to sell. I’m still not convinced this isn’t still an option on the table. Might be exactly what Jeff is thinking when/if the team is passed to him. Although I’m not sure how that all works with their minority investors.

The Mets problem from 2010 through 2012 was an ownership group that didn’t have the money / liquid assets to support a franchise that was losing money. Lots of money, that is.
Now, besides downsizing the payroll to a level where operating losses figure to be avoided, the ownership group now has a bunch of money to use for supporting the franchise. And SNY gains are one part of that money. Besides 150+ million of new loans they ‘ re receiving – with the ” montly rate” so to speak remaining the same as before thanks to lower interest rates.

So, the excuse ” there’s no money” which was valid over the past couple of years is gone now.

That and the rights fee…

You are AVOIDING the point!

SNY is not going to give them 20 MIl more than they gave them last year!

First off ity’s Illegal
Second TIme Warner won’t allow the Wilpons to take Time Warner Profit for thier team without Time Warner and Comcats’ permission

and Lastly PROVE THEY CAN< WILL OR EVER DID!

Show me some proof SNY just gave the Mets 20 Million for NOTHING!
Or intend to give 20 Mil MORE than they gave them last year…

This time next year you will be looking for new excuses as to why they won't be spending…

Fact is, those two enteties are very dependant on each other. The better the Mets are, the more money SNY receives. Still, due to the structuring of the TV deal, SNY gets the Mets for a bargain price. Less than half of what other teams get.

It doesn’t mean it’s enough when the Mets field a 140 + million $ payroll and a sub .500 team. But certainly enough with a 90 million $ payroll and a sub .500 team.

And certainly enough with an outlook at 2014 with a 60 million payroll – for now – and an additional 10 million in NATIONAL TV DEAL money. Plus SNY gains, let alone an ownership group that just received 150+ million in extra cash with their recent restructuring of loans at lower interest.

While a more potent ownership group would be nice, this one has plenty of funds available by now & going forward.

Show us WHY SNY would pay 20 Mil more this year to offset the 23 Mil Loss number than it did last year when they lost 23 Mil…

Knock yourselves out…

Your just skampering to find money to convince yourself they will have money to spend….
Not including bonus and Options, Add some from SNY, Hell why not add they will win the lottery too?

They are not getting any MORE money this year from SNY than they got LAST YEAR….And last year they lost 23 Mil….

LOL,

Yup, “getting back” meant I was picking up again on a subject written about in paragraphs earlier, getting off the subject of the paragraph that just ended. Don’t worry, I’m the guy who also mistook the row next to the attendance figure to mean payroll or vice versa.

But legally, SNY is considered a separate holding under Sterling Equitites, isn’t it?

Oh, I agree with you that doesn’t mean a thing. The Wilpons could easily afford to let the Mets lose money each year because in the overall scheme of things there is no SNY without the Mets and it is the METS that account for SNY’s revenue (though maybe not as much as “beer money” as several allude to). SNY is where the big money comes in. Both are dependent upon the other. .

But then, why did they allow the Mets situation to come down to what it is today by not using some the revenue brought in from SNY so they did not need to get those two loans just to meet the end of the month operating expenses? Their share of the profits is their own to use any way they see fit.

I can only guess that there is something tied in with SNY (and don’t ask me what) which they feel is more important to their own financial interests than using it to help relieve the Mets situation, which we can see is losing it’s market value as well as yearly losses. The Mets franchise has turned off so many fans as reflected in the empty seats each season. They know that for as many fans as there are who believe that the team needed re-building and so Sandy has taken the right steps to do so, there are more who see it in the negative light others and I have expressed. Certainley, they do not want to have an image that they hired a small-market general manager who thinks in terms of the ledger book as so many do.

So why, with SNY, have they let it come to this. Wouldn’t it be in their best interests not to?

“Getting back to the civil suit, Piccard’s settlement …”

“Getting back” implies an earlier discussion about the settlement which is what I was looking for!

So I guess I didn’t come on in the middle. I just didn’t understand what you were saying!

“

While there are valid questions regarding some Baseball decisions of this current front office, the business side of the plan is quite sound and logical. If they are right about Wheeler & D ‘ Arnaud, this has a lot of upside, though.

Fact check:
Projected 2014 Mets payroll as of today: 55 million $
Additional National TV money from 2014 on: 10+ million $ extra
Ownership just received 150+ million $ in fresh money without higher monthly rates
SNY is a profitable entety
=> money will not be an issue from 2014 on

But that also still does not take into account the annual amount of the re-financing they will have to pay, along with the money owed in the Civil Suit and Poland Spring for the water coolers.

Why would that be Dooby?

Your just looking for ANY number you can add and ignoring any BILL that is due to try and find the numbers you WANT there to be to spend but really don’t exist….

You want to fool yourself to feel better go right ahead but your numbers are WRONG, BIASED, and as much FANTASY as your 2014 Playoff run!
That USED to be 2013 at one point when you thought all that money you saved on Beltran and K-Rod was going to be spent….

And you keep ignoring the fact that the 23 Mil is the LOW LOSS number that assumes attendance is EXACTLY THE SAME as last year when we all know it won’t be with our OF and loss of our Biggest draw last year RA DICKEY!

It’s a nice dream you have there DOoby but please wake up and smell the coffee!