7
2013
Turning the Hall of Fame Election Into A Witch Hunt
An article by 
This week, I’m expecting to reach my boiling point when it comes to the Hall of Fame and those who vote for it.
I’m expecting to see Mike Piazza fall shy of the necessary votes to enter the Hall of Fame, and in my mind – that is a crime against baseball and the fans that every writer who doesn’t vote for him should be ashamed of.
I’m not going to sugar coat this. I believe there is a very good chance that Mike Piazza took some sort of PED. Heck, I believe it’s harder to find players who did not ever touch it than finding players who did. However, those with any kind of real evidence have had plenty of time and opportunity to come forward.
If your view is that Mike Piazza is not good enough to be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer, I respect that. I disagree with it with every breath I have, but I respect it.
Since 1944, the Baseball Writers of America have been instructed to vote under the following guidelines.
“Voting will continue to be based upon the individual’s record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game of Baseball. All candidates receiving votes on at least 75 percent of ballots cast will earn election.”
Individual Record, Ability and Contribution to the Game
Since we are looking first at Piazza being “good enough” let’s look at his individual record, ability and contribution to the game of baseball.
Mike Piazza played 16 years in the Major Leagues. During those 16 years, he was elected to the All-Star Game 14 times. He won 10 Silver Slugger Awards, and was a Top 5 MVP four times, and a Top 10 MVP 7 times.
Among Catchers, he has the most Silver Slugger Awards with Ivan Rodriguez behind him by 3. Since the creation of the Silver Slugger Award, only Barry Bonds has more hardware than Piazza with 12.
If you compare Piazza to catchers with at least 1,000 games played, he hit 38 more HR than any catcher in the history of sport, with Johnny Bench finishing 2nd. He is 4th all-time in RBI, 5th in batting average, 8th in OBP, 1st in SLG, 1st in OPS, and 1st in OPS+.
When looking into a player’s Hall of Fame candidacy, I believe a writer needs to take serious consideration into whether that player dominated his position while he played. Not only did Piazza dominate his position when he played, but he also is dominant when weighed against history.
There are many who will attempt to bring up Piazza’s defense to try and count it against him. A fact that cannot be ignored is that Piazza was not very good at throwing runners out. However, there is more to playing defense as a catcher than throwing a runner out.
I’m not going to sit here and tell you he was a great fielding catcher. I am going to tell you he called a great game, and was not as bad as people make him out to be. Certainly not bad enough to leave him out of the Hall of Fame.
Anybody who makes an argument that Piazza simply isn’t good enough for the Hall of Fame needs to either re-learn the game of baseball, or is totally lost.
So, I think without any doubt Piazza has cleared his individual record, ability and contribution to the game of baseball test.
Now let us take a look at the final 3 criteria.
Integrity, Sportsmanship, and Character
There are a few players that appear on the ballot who were implicated directly in the steroid era. One of those players is not Mike Piazza. The mere idea that back acne or a groin injury is enough to keep him out of the Hall of Fame honestly proves that writers are trying to create a story rather than report on one.
Do I think there is a chance that Mike Piazza took something? Yes. But I also believe that there has been enough time and investigation into the steroid era to suggest that if you do not have clear evidence by now, then your job is not to invent evidence.
Writers should vote on what they know, not what might be true.
The biggest hypocrisy to me is when writers vote Jeff Bagwell into the Hall of Fame but not Mike Piazza. According to our own Clayton Collier the following writers voted for Jeff Bagwell but did not cast their vote for Mike Piazza.
In terms of their ability based on their position, Mike Piazza did more in terms of the history of the sport than Bagwell did. So trying to claim Piazza wasn’t as good as Bagwell is honestly a waste of time.
The idea that there is so much evidence to keep Piazza out but not enough to do the same for Bagwell is laughable.
In the minor leagues, Jeff Bagwell hit 6 HR in 831 plate appearances. From 1991-1993, Bagwell had 1,956 big league plate appearances and hit a total of 53 HR. At age 26 (1994), he followed that up by hitting 39 in 479 plate appearances.
Bagwell was teammates with known steroid users such as Ken Caminiti, Karl Rhodes, Jason Grimsley and Pete Incaviglia. He was also teammates with suspected steroid users in Steve Finley and Luis Gonzalez.
One of the biggest cases against a player like Barry Bonds was that he miraculously got much bigger later in age. Here is a photo of a 24 year old Jeff Bagwell, and here is a photo of Bagwell around the age of 32.
However, as time has gone on, Bagwell has never been implicated publically to steroids and for this reason I feel if you think he was good enough, he should be a Hall of Famer.
So if the evidence to make a guess on Bagwell isn’t good enough for writers like Adam Rubin, then why on earth should they hold Piazza back due to acne?
How about Piazza’s character and sportsmanship?
Well, he was given the chance to prove he lacked sportsmanship when Roger Clemens on a national stage threw a broken bat in his direction. There are hundreds of players that would have attacked Clemens in a heartbeat. Piazza did not start the brawl that so many others would have.
Piazza’s character was never questioned during his entire playing career. He handled the media with ease, and was a professional at all times.
Hall of Fame Witch Hunt
The writers who choose to not vote Mike Piazza into the Hall of Fame based on suspicion that has not been proven true are taking their privilege to vote and using it to put an even darker stain on the steroid era.
It has been five years since the Mitchell Report was made public, and still there’s never been a credible document written that implicates Mike Piazza. Anybody with such information could have greatly profited from it had they come out prior to Piazza’s initial Hall of Fame eligibility.
There are 21 years of Mike Piazza’s life that should dictate whether or not he is a Hall of Famer. During the first 16 he has the resume, and in the 5 years following his playing career there hasn’t been a single piece of credible evidence linking him to steroid usage.
The steroid era is a black eye on the game, but it’s a black eye we all willingly played a role in to some degree.
The Hall of Fame is the greatest honor a player can ever be bestowed, and to turn the election into a witch hunt rather than an election based on the criteria dictated by the Hall of Fame is disgraceful.
Fair and balanced team coverage. We give it to you straight!
About the Author: Michael J. Branda
My time with MMO began in July of 2009 when I wrote a Fan Post defending Omar Minaya (before it was cool to do that.) I grew up a Mets fan with the mid 1980's teams. My favorite Met of all-time is (and was) Wally Backman. When it comes to sabermetrics versus old school thinking, I like to think I meet in the middle. I believe thinking of new ways to get answers is helpful, especially when the same way has not produced results. However, I think over-thinking certain situations can get you into trouble. I'm excited for the new regime, because I believe they have pieces in place to focus on several aspects of the Mets organization. I've waited this long for a World Series, waiting a few more years for another chance isn't going to kill me.
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Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Once again you knocked it out of the box with this article Jessup…..and shame on Adam Rubin
Piazza has his autobiography “Long Shot” due out Feb. 12 it is said he addresses among many things the steroid controversy that revolved around him. You think Jessep that maybe some in the media that may be on the fence wanted to wait to see what Piazza might say on the topic?
Lets assume he did some banned PED and he admits to it in the book. Well then wouldn’t that torpedo his attempt to get in the HOD at a later date should he not get in this winter? I would think very much so. So it’s very unlikely he makes some admission as some have crazily speculated. It makes no sense. That would be shooting himself in the foot. Leave it up to that crazy man Chass to come up with such an unlikely scenario.
Plus, the idea that it comes out after the HOF vote being some motive to avoid steroids keeping him out is beyond silly.
So basically we assume a guy who never did anything wrong to anybody is suddenly trying to trick everybody into voting for him so that he can do what? Get booed at his HOF induction ceremony?
Really?
Yeah, it’s an absolutely zany theory. I feel Piazza has been unfairly tainted by simply being in this year’s first-year group along with Clemens and Bonds. Taint by association. If he had retired one year earlier, and been eligible for the HOF last year, I think he night have had an easier time getting the needed votes. It’s sad.
Right and Metro, it’s SELECTIVE guilt by association.
Bagwell played with 4 to 5 known or heavily suspected steroid users and pushers at a young age. Piazza didn’t.
Who was in Piazza’s locker room when he was 24 years old hitting 35 HR? Nobody. Nobody on his early Dodgers teams to my knowledge are known users. Karros had rumors as did Mondesi but not until after Piazza already started to show 35+ HR power.
So a young Mike Piazza hits for power in the minors and then at an early age in MLB and isn’t surrounded by any known steroid pushers
A young Jeff Bagwell DOES NOT hit for power in the minors and then at an early age is surrounded by KNOWN steroid pushers and suddenly becomes a significant power threat
But he’s a hall of famer to guys like Rosenthal, Rubin and many others… but Piazza isn’t because he had some pimples.
The thing with Bagwell is that he had about as big a weight loss after PEDs testing was instituted as I’ve seen. He and Pudge are notable for that. It’s circumstantial, but in my mind it’s even more of a sign of usage of anabolic steroids than back acne is. So voting for Bagwell and not Piazza is highly suspect and irritating.
For some writers who do illogical things like that, I think that an ulterior motive may be to stick it to Mets fans and the Mets organization. I’m thinking of Rubin and Davidoff.
Hi Metro,
Remember how slim McGwire looked when lying to senate committee? Of course, loss in body mass is just as valid an indicator as a gain in one.
Yes, I have my suspicisions about Mike not because of him personally but because I do about everybody who played during that era. And that is the shame of it all because Mike contributed to help foster that suspicion upon himself as did every player regardless of using it or not because as a group they all kept the fact that steroid use was rampant closed to outsiders.
So if Mike is not named on the hall ballot because of an unfounded suspicion of steroids it’s because he and his fellow union members caused that suspicion to happen by simply being quiet about the whole thing – unless there was an underground movement with their ranks to change it.
Joey, I agree that the union and the players have to share a lot of the blame. They are equally as bad as the owners and the commissioner for allowing PEDs to proliferate. There were a few players, however, who tried to do something about it. Like Rick Helling, But they were essentially ignored.
I may be in the minority but I really believe the game is mostly clean now. You won’t see any more power displays such as what happened with Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire. So at least we can be thankful for that,
If you ask me te Players and Agents are WAY more to blame than the Owners…
The Owners may have rewarded the accomplishments gained by the use but they didn’t force any player to take them….
And the Players did at thier OWN expense…They didn’t really hurt the fans as we saw the HRs we LOVE to see regardless of cheat or not….
No the Players only hurt themselves and the RECORD book they strive to get thier name in and now their name goes in with an asterix!
They resisted testing even after the Owners agreed to do it at the end of the Congressional gun to thier head and while they may have looked the other way they sure didn’t force them to us…
The Agents saw the dollars to be gained as did the Players….Hit 60 Hrs in your walk year and your set for life!
Get caught? So what you still get to cash the check!
The players are to blame they hurt themselves (healthwise), they hurt their fellow union memebers costing them money or forcing them to use, and they hurt thier legacy by making the record book a sham and their Hall status in doubt….
Oh, we agree that the union and players are at fault. But you’re letting the owners off a little bit too much. We know from the MItchell report that quite a few GMs knew or highly suspected their players were on roids. So the owners must have suspected too. They could have put more pressure on Selig and the union to get a testing program in place. They are also the ones who signed the big checks to big cheaters like Bonds and Clemens, so they facilitated the PEDs cheaters and gave them more incentive to cheat.
Really, all parties are to blame. The only ones who I feel don’t deserve any blame are the media and the fans, who some like to say facilitated the cheating as well.
I’m sure they did know…They also knew at the time there were no rules banning them and that they had no interest either way since they were not harmed and may have even been helped by players using them…
Owners don’t care about the record books…Why should they?
All they care about is attendance and production and PEDs hurt neither of those…
It comes down to the Owners saying if the Players want to kill themselves to get us to pay more thats thier problem. Why should we stop them from doing something that hurts them not us?
Hi Metro,
I’m sure it’s cleaner simply because we are not seeing any superhuman feats of strength but then a year ago the NL MVP was tested positive for steroids and got off a legal technicality even a Sandy Alderson would be proud of. We also still read of minor leaguers getting caught due to the tougher testing rules and eventually nine percent of minor leaguers do become major leaguers.
There is one player I think many of suspect does because of his sudden surge of power – Jose Bautista. The past three years he has been putting up Hank Aaron numbers while during his many other past seasons was only able to generate no more than 16 in any one year.
As for Mike, even though I think he was clean, he also brought the doubt upon himself by simply being loyal to his colleagues and not taking a stand one way or the other. That is what all those from his era will have to contend with. They all deserve to be second guessed for turning a deaf ear to the situation.
So just so I am clear Mr NJ – if in Piazza’s book he doesn’t say he took steroids, are the writers who didn’t vote him in going to publicly apologize to him?
Somehow I doubt it. Somehow I also doubt he’s going to come out in the book and say “my career was tainted by steroids.” So what are writers expecting in the book that could alter their vote?
So basically if you think Mike Piazza is writing it down that he took something, you’re punishing him for maybe coming out with it but letting a guy like Bagwell go because he never admitted it?
It’s such a cop out.
So I guess the short answer to my question was No?
As far as his book I don’t know what to expect he will say in it but I thought it might be possible that there are a few in the media that may have wanted to vote for Piazza but did not want to do so if after the fact in his autobiography he admits to something that had they know beforehand they may have voted differently.
Just a thought.
ha sorry, it just irks me so much that people are coming up with so many silly reasons to not vote in an OBVIOUS all time great. And the people who leave him out and put Bagwell in to me are a disgrace.
I’ve heard the book stuff but to be honest it doesn’t make sense for him to out himself 3 weeks after an election. Because a) he may not get in ever or b) he’ll just get booed at the HOF induction or have the HOF in an unprecedented move revoke his membership
Why on earth would he do that?
Understood and just in case for the record I never read anyone in the media suggest what I asked. It was just a thought that came to mind and I was curious to hear your take.
I think some of those that didn’t vote for Piazza this year, will do so next year. Some just have an idea that only the elite of the elite should be a first ballet HOF inductee.
In fact, I think I saw at least one writer/voter say as much, just can’t remember who that is.
Jessep, maybe we need to see Piazza at similar time in his career. He looked just a natural weight gain from young player to older player, never bulked up like Bagwell or Bonds.
Hi Metstheory,
Add to that was Mike’s throwing arm having no pop to it toward the end of his career. Steroids would have made it more un-naturally powerful and he was bouncing throws to second base. Pudge Rodriguez, on the other hand, was throwing out base stealers with his knees on the ground – which meant no momentum in his throw.
Yes, keep saying things that I agree with Jessep…so you can avoid talking football with me
I’m going to have a similar post up tomorrow, because I still can’t figure out why anyone thinks Piazza isn’t a HoFer.
jessep, nice work. I completely agree. Maybe it’s time they should look into changing the voting system. It’s far too open to too many miscellaneous sportswriters, some of whom no longer cover baseball anymore.
Most (if not all) of what negative PED accusations involving Piazza are out there are the direct result of Murray Chass in what has the feel of a personal vendetta. Great piece, and yes it is disgraceful.
Jeff Pearlman is another culprit. He did a smear job on Piazza in his book. Totally unfair what he wrote.
Does Piazza belong in the HOF? Absolutely. Does he belong on the first ballot? Reluctantly, I say no.
I love Piazza and have a special affinity for catchers having worn the tools of ignorance myself but I reserve first ballot status for players who excel at all aspects of their position and as good as Mike was on offense, which was spectacular, he was only average as a defensive catcher.
So to clarify, are you saying he’s not an elite all around general player, or not an elite catcher? I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
Simply saying that while he was indeed an elite hitter for a catcher he was not an elite defensive catcher.
As I said, I do think he belongs in the HOF, just not on the first ballot.
Oh yeah, that’s a perfectly valid criticism. It also sounds a lot better than “Piazza sucked on defense…” because he wasn’t terrible, but he would never come close to winning any gold gloves.
I believe the offense outweighs his average defense – especially at catcher, because of the physical toll it takes on your body. He was the best offensive catcher in history, and I would think the voters could give him a little pass on his defense. Of course, I’m biased, because he’s one of my own.
Well let me preface what I’m about to say with I don’t really agree with the thinking….
But the Catcher position is largely considered based on it’s defensive prowess and rarely just by the bat…
So I can see why they might take Piazza’s defense into account and take points off….
I just don’t agree they should….
That said… I have a hard time saying if Bagwell gets a vote so too should Piazza…
Bagwell was one of the best defensive 1Bs in the league
Hit 48, 40 and 43 Hrs in three seperate seasons (Piazza only managed just 40 twice). And the rest of his (Bagwell) 15 year career only hit less than 30 four times (last season excluded)
Thats pretty damn impressive and puts him slightly ahead in the HR department over his entire career (Bagwell 449HRs in 15 years, Piazza 427 in 16 Years)
Add the defense and it’s hard to say Piazza deserves it more (all peds being equal) than Bagwell.
Do they both deserve to be in….I think so…
And I do agree with your point on NO BODY, NO CRIME….
Perhaps some of the reporters KNOW what is in Piazza’s book…Or perhaps they are just voting based on the numbers I mentioned and figure they can always vote Piazza in next year….
Which guidelines are you using to determine Bagwell’s defense as one of the best in the league when he played? Where are you setting that bar?
Was he a better fielder than Grace, Snow, Helton, Lee, Olerud, Palmeiro? I’d have a hard time saying he was. So right off the bat he was at best the 7th best fielding 1B.
Then you got guys like Mattingly, Joyner, Teixera, Tino… can you say without a doubt Bagwell was better in the field than them? If so – what are you using to determine that?
I think Bagwell is a HOF. I just think inflating his resume as some writers are doing is very strange especially when it comes at the hands of leaving Piazza out
In 15 years the lowest his FP got was .989 and .991
The remaining 12 years were all .993 and above!
He was usually in the .995 area for the Majority of his career…
Now this is where you come up with some cocamamie Saber that you like better right?
But you forget the fact that these guys didn’t use those when they remember who they thought was good at the time…
You want to make a case for those others feel free….
Name all the 1B guys who have played 15 years, are on THIS ballot, and have the HR totals Bagwell has….
Knock yourself out….
Metsie –
When comparing the number of homers between players, one must consider total number of AB’s which you didn’t.
Bagwell – 449 in 7,797 AB’s
Piazza – 427 in 6,911 AB’s.
The difference of nearly 900 AB’s is equivalent to two full seasons for an everyday catcher. For Piazza, that amounts to another 50-70 homers at least.
And when comparing a catcher with non-catchers, the grueling nature of the position, must also be considered. including, but not limited to worn down knees and beat up hands and body from ions of foul tips,
Mike Piazza has more home runs than any catcher in the history of the game.
Jeff Bagwell does not have more home runs than any first baseman in history. There are dozen first basemen who’ve hit more including:
Carlos Delgado
Willie Stargell
Albert Pujols
Fred McGriff
Lou Gehrig
Eddie Murray
Willie McCovey
Rafael Palmeiro
Mark McGwire
Harmon Killebrew
Jimmie Foxx
LTF I get what your saying and as I said originally both probably should be in the hall…
But these guys aren’t making decision by doing statistical analysis…
They are going by who is on the ballot and who did better than someone else over the course of an entire career…
SO while all those guys you listed have more HRs @1B it really doesn’t matter since they aren’t on the ballot to take votes away.
You want to make a case for them not being on the ballot at all I’m with you but it seems every year SOMEONE gets in and there are Nominees every year regardless of if they belong or not…
They have to vote for who is nominated and thier decisions will be based on that more than anything else….
A Ballot full of guys who don’t deserve to be in the hall will elect ONE of them to the hall which is why you always hear the argument well if he got in this guy should too…
But the reason he got in was most likely because he got on a very weak ballot and got enough votes because none of the other players who didn’t deserve to get in either did…
It’s really a flawed voting system and I think they LIKE it that way because it gets people talking about the sport at a time no one but kids in the southern hempsphere are playing it!
And by the way, Metsie, what a ridiculous thing to say asking for comparison between first baseman on a single ballot.
You pat yourself on the back as if you’re gold medal brainiac, for what, unbeknownst to you, is not how players are judged as Hall of Fame worthy. You make yourself look foolish. The players on the ballot merely reflect eligibility relative to minimum of 10 years in the majors, what year they retired and whether they accrued the minimum necessary on previous ballots to remain on subsequent ones for total of 15 years. There can be no one on current ballot who retired before 1992. Eligibility starts 5 years after the player’s final season, with maximum of 15 years on ballot for those who’ve played 10 or more years.
On rare occasions, eligibility requirements were waived following tragic deaths as was the case for Roberto Clemente and Kirby Puckett.
There’s also a special committee that includes current Hall of Famers who can vote in players who were on the ballot for 15 years but never got voted in the standard way.
Well LTF…Hw many times has ballot gone out that someone on it did NOT make the hall?
Hmmm?
You think you know how the voting is supposed to go but you have heard many explanations for why people voted the way they did that had NOTHING to do with what you propose it’s all about!
People voted for Bonds and Clemmons…How does that fit in what you think the standard is?
Metsie,
If 15-20 years from now Jeff Francouer is the best right fielder amongst those on same ballot, does he get your vote if per se, you had one? Presumably you know the difference between an All- Star Game Ballot and that of Hall of Fame.
I think you got yourself twisted into pretzel trying to validate Bagwell’s candidacy, and have subsequently dug yourself in deeper, trying to save face. Bagwell’s credentials are worthy of Hall of Fame consideration on their own accord. The quality of other first basemen on the ballot – better or worse – doesn’t matter.
And you’re no more responsible, than I, when those with Hall of Fame votes, abuse the privilege and make irrational decisions like some have. on current ballot. I believe they should be stripped of their privileges for making such mockery of the process,
If all te other nmes on the Ballot are admitted PED Users or guys like Andre Torres then YES probably Francouer gets my vote merely because I didn’t vote for thers and had to vote for someone!
How many years has it ever happened where NO ONE on the ballot got voted in or that no one got enough votes to get in that year?
And how many years was the ballot so weak that someone got in who shouldn’t have merely because they were the best of the bad bunch?
Unless they send back a blank Ballot (and some writers have in the past to no avail) someone gets in and it doesn’t mean they deserve to just that of all the people on the ballot he got more than everyone else.
Neither Obama or Romney had what it takes to be president either but one of them won the election didn’t they?
Oh so fielding percentage dictates how good of a fielder you are? First of all, how many % points do you get if you cannot get to the ball when it’s hit?
But since you wanted to use fielding %:
Mark Grace .995
JT Snow .995
Todd Helton .996
Derrek Lee .994
John Olerud .995
Raf Palmeiro .994
Don Mattingly .996
Wally Joyner .994
Mark Teixera .997
Tino Martinez .995
Albert Pujols .994
Doug Mientkiewicz .996
Darrin Erstard .996
David Segui .995
So Bagwell’s career .993 % means he was one of the best defensive 1B in his era? There’s 14 1B who according to your measurement of skill were better at 1B so how does Bagwell rank as “one of the best defensive 1B”?
Mark Grace .995
JT Snow .995
Todd Helton .996
Derrek Lee .994
John Olerud .995
Raf Palmeiro .994
Don Mattingly .996
Wally Joyner .994
Mark Teixera .997
Tino Martinez .995
Albert Pujols .994
Doug Mientkiewicz .996
Darrin Erstard .996
David Segui .995
Which one is on this Ballot competing with him?
Hmmm?
You judge a player based on the players in their era, not based on the ballot.
Thats what your SUPPOSED to do but when your busy trying to send a message and avoid the best players on the ballot thats not how the votes are made!
In the end the players that have been nominated have supposedly ALREADY met that litmus test to be confirmed by the voters….
If all the PEDS users had not been exposed we wouldn’t even be talking about Bagwell and Piazza they wouldn’t even get close to the votes of Bonds and Clemons….
The only reason why they are in this race is the voters want to send a message and they can only do that by MAKING a vote and voting for whats left.
HOF voters, some, have taken their responsibilities to be judgmental of players they think might of used while they themselves didn’t tract this issue until after the glory days that McGwire/Sosa/Bonds brought baseball then when only Bonds was left did they really do their diligence.
Mike belongs in as a 1st time HOF, no matter what these holier than God writers think they are.
Piazza deserves to be first ballot Hall of Fame. Shame on those voters with their own personal agendas. It’s time to remove the voting from sportswriters and give to current Hall of Famers.
Shame on Chass, Rubin, Davidson, Noble and the others. Disgraceful.
WHle I agree with you the sportswriters should not be voting..If we left it to the current Hall players they wouldn’t vote anyone in for the next 10 years! LOL
You know who should vote?
The League and the Players themselves….
Then it would be a REAL honor because your peers would have put you there not some Writer who probably has never even been to the hall and wasn’t born when the real HOFers were playing….