Comments on: The Bourn Ultimatum: Should We Or Shouldn’t We?

By: Mets Faithful

Mets Faithful — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 23:40:40 +0000

This is how the Mets can start a real rebuilding process. Bourn may not help us win a Championship this year but its a push in the right direction! It really fills a lot of needs for the overall team and can help us contend in 2014! I say do it as long as you dont have to give up the pick!

By: Jesus Guzman

Jesus Guzman — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:03:07 +0000

I was on the fence about signing him, but after reading several opinions, I’m all for it. He would bring us security in the outfield for at least two years (we can always trade him before the third year of his contract if he starts to do poorly or an outfield prospect starts to flourish or Wilmer magically learns how to play the outfield), he would instantly go into the leadoff position and add speed on the basepads that we desperately need. So with this one signing we would:

- Have a more secure outfield, and Bourn does have a really good defense
- Have a leadoff player with speed who can learn how to work the count from the coaches and players like Tejada
- Adds speed
- Improves the defense
- Can hold us over until we add a better player either through the farm system or free agency.

By: jerseymet

jerseymet — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:16:00 +0000

No…. If you want defense bring up Den Dekker. Save the money. This won’t help us win a championship.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:00:59 +0000

The issue with what people want to give away to get Stanton is more about thier feelings regarding our Farm than anything to do with what they think the Marlins will get for Stanton….

Thats why it’s always Wheeler/Harvey/Niese/Davis (and now d’Arnaud) in every trade proposal because they are the only ones THEY like and therefore think those are the only players any other team would like as well….

When I look at what we got for Dickey (a Cy Young Pitcher far rarer and more valuable than good OFer)

We didn’t get a top 10 overall pick! We d’Arnaud (injury issues) and Snydergaard PLUS was forced to eat a poison pill in Buck.

People gushed over that being a GREAT deal….

Wheeler was a yet unproven A Ball Pitcher when we traded Beltran for him. And Stanton is now Beltran but he might be close….

That makes Snydergaard close to equal to Wheeler in any trade for an OF. He is at the top of OUR prospect list after all….

They need a 3B in Miami…We have Flores who has no place to play until 2020!

So you start off with those two maybe throw in Kirk or I would even entertain throwing Duda in there and that should be enough to get Stanton.

From best I can tell there are only three teams (maybe 4) still in the OF market with Two top OFs available if you count Stanton….

Whoever gets Bourne comes off leaving three teams in the hunt.
Only Seattle has the kids that could overpay the way everyone suggests someone should for Stanton. Orioles may too but they just finished a Playoff season and will probably not be willing to purge a farm to get Stanton.

I think Texas was aslo looking and they are the most likely to pay Bourne his price in FA….

So in the end if we can’t get Stanton I think it will be more to do with being a division rival than anything to do with the quality of package we can put together….

If the Marlins were smart they would buy out Stanton’s remaining Arb years cause then they could be patient and wait for someone desperate to come along and get more.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:40:40 +0000

Well Hitman as I have said many times and said plenty during the Upton discussions…

You can ASK for whatever you want….
But you will only get as much as someone offers and what they offer depends on what THEY think Stanton is worth and how many other teams think he’s worth trading for. and the latter usually only affects the 3rd and 4th player offerred in the trade not the first one or two…

The fact he is currently cheap and under contraol also means squat.
He’s pre-arb for this year but guys like Davis and Murphy jumped from under 600K per year to around 3 Mil. Imagine how high Stanton is going to jump in Arb next year? And the year after etc….

Unless they are prepared to buy out his Arb years He is not going to reamain cheap for very long…And for every year they don’t trade him that trade value will decline as the Salary goes up.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:28:12 +0000

Good haul..probably…Did they get the equiv of Niese or Wheeler and Davis which many suggested was the minimum that was needed?

By: Sach

Sach — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:14:00 +0000

I think things are getting interesting with Bourn. Acc. to Bob Nightengale of USA Today yesterday, the Texas Rangers are not involved at all in talks for Bourn. And obviously, the Braves are out on Bourn. And the Orioles have Adam Jones for CF. Bob thinks the last 2 standing for Bourn are the Mets and Mariners. So, maybe the Mets can bring in this guy for 4 yrs. max and 44MM or maybe less than that 4yrs. 40MM- what Pagan got. This is not Omar- Why should the Mets bid against themselves for any FA like they did in the past for both Oliver Perez and Jason Bay when there is really no other strong suitor for that player? And now, the new rumor is Bourn is willing to take just a 1 year deal for approx. 15MM to become a FA again after next season but that isn’t happening- no team is going to forfeit a 1st round pick for just a 1 year rental. Let’s see who blinks 1st- Boras or Sandy. I seriously doubt Sandy. Sandy loves situations like this when a player and their agent feel boxed in and have nowhere to go and have to come down in $$$ to more near Sandy’s terms.

By: vinnie papandrea

vinnie papandrea — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:53:11 +0000

So which is it Do you want Bourne or not. I know you rather just sit there and criticize f they don’t sign him or kill them if they do. Get off the fence Which is it. They under no circumstances should forfeit they’re pick for Bourne, he’s not a difference maker, I do not want to hear Boras nonsense about 85 runs saved, complete garbage. If they don’t lose the pick (which they shouldn’t) and you do not go past 4 years Then take a shot, trust me there is no one lining up to sign this guy.

By: DrDooby

DrDooby — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:18:50 +0000

Wright is a much better bet to be productive at age 35 than Bourn is due to the position he plays and the effects of losing a couple of steps.

Bourn´s traditionally high batting average on balls in play (due to his speed) figures to regress eventually, meaning that instead of a .275ish sort of BA with all the K´s, he´ll slip into the .250ish BA and instead of an OBP of .345 may post an OBP of merely .320 to.325 a few years down the road. His Gold Glove CF defense may slip from great to merely above average.

So there certainly is a significant risk involved with giving Bourn more than 3 or 4 years.
Of course, several speedsters have managed to keep their speed well into their mid 30s. Juan Pierre or Ichiro being prime examples. And Bourn has been very healthy so far in his career. Still, sometimes speed disappears rather quickly, so a longterm deal to a player like Bourn could get quite ugly with a couple of serious leg injuries in a hurry.

That said, Bourn is by far the best defensive CF on the free agent market this year or next year (with Carlos Gomez probably coming in 2nd and BJ Upton 3rd). Except for maybe Peter Bourjos there may not be a better defensive CF in Baseball right now. And given the subpar defense of the current Mets OF, he´d be a strong addition for now and the next couple of years.

It all comes down to length and annual value of the contract – and of course, whether the 1st round pick in 2013 is gone or whether it´s merely a lottery ticket 2nd rounder. That alone can justify an extra year on a contract or a couple of million $ per year.
And the Mets are in a potentially unique situation here as all the other potential suitors for Bourn do not have a protected 1st round pick. If the Mets feel they do, then Bourn is an intriguing option for sure.

By: CB

CB — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:04:10 +0000

If you check out the league average lines for hitters’ counts, you’ll find that Bourn’s numbers there are actually not all that overly impressive. Its right around par with the rest of the league if not slightly above average. In fact his 2011 numbers are actually quite low, and well below league average.

League averages in hitters’ counts are insanely high, and league averages in pitchers’ counts are insanely low, so they kind of even each other out to the .250-.260 league batting average range.

By: BadBadLeroyBrown

BadBadLeroyBrown — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:12:04 +0000

Exactly Metsie…..

Ive been reading Mets fans talk about giving up the whole freaking farm system for Stanton as if he is Willie Mays or the next coming of Babe Ruth….while he is very good he isnt worth what some here and the talking heads on ESPN or the MLB network claim him to be worth. I read someone say something about one of those shows stating pick your top 5 prospects and hope the Marlins like them!?!? Thats ridiculous…greater players have been traded for less….

Because 1st of all when the Marlins do decide to trade him it will be when he is no longer CHEAP and under team control….He will be arb eligible in 2014 at age 24….which is when Marlins will seriously start dangling him…at most they would pay him for one arbitration season then he will be traded ASAP….

For Instance if you want really want to find out Stantons value go no further than look at the last Young power hitting stud that the Marlins traded…..MIGUEL CABRERA!!!

Florida Marlins
Miguel Cabrera – 24yr old STUD (Was already a 4xAllstar 2xSilver slugger award winner)
Dontrelle Willis -25yr old STUD coming off bad year(2xAllstar, ROY, runner up for Cy Young)

Traded for

Detroit Tigers
Andrew Miller….LHP – Ranked #10 Top prospect by BaseballAmerica in 2007
Cameron Maybin CF – Ranked #06 Top prospect by BaseballAmerica in 2007
Eulogio De La Cruz RHP – Fringe prospect with no control who was projected to be a reliever
Burke Badenhop RHP- Mediocre minors Starting pitcher with a low K-rate nothing special
Dallas Trahern RHP – below avg minor leaguer at the time
Mike Rabelo C – 27yr old career minor leaguer at the time(in other words just minors depth)

IMO to acquire Stanton it will require a deal similar to what we got for Dickey with 1 or 2more throw in filler minor leaguers. Similar to the haul the Marlins got for Cabrera in 2007.

But isnt it funny how some people cringe at giving up top prospects but look what the tigers got for Cabrera…Do you think they regret doing this deal??? Did it set there franchise back at all…lol….Or elevate their team ever since this deal smh….

By: Hitman

Hitman — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:35:56 +0000

Yeah, I’m really curious as well as to how it’s a “massive risk” when the Mets & Marlins are practically in the same boat when it comes to need, running things at a slight budget and yet, have the pieces that would benefit both sides in the present & near future.

By: Just-Da-Damaja

Just-Da-Damaja — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:26:41 +0000

How is getting Stanton a risk for the mets?

LMAO

By: Mr North Jersey

Mr North Jersey — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 04:48:48 +0000

If this story is legit it may mean forget Dariel Alvarez as well for at least 6 months.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elnuevoherald.com%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2F1390727%2Funa-vieja-traba-se-interpone-entre.html

By: Hank

Hank — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 04:33:03 +0000

I’m trying to imagine this to be like the Santana situation where teams start dropping like flies and the Mets are the last team standing. However, I just don’t see Boras not getting his man 3-4 at 13-15MM AAV. And I’m not sure the Mets will meet that price. Beware of the mysterious mystery team.

By: Matt74

Matt74 — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 03:14:32 +0000

The real question is, will this guy really help the team right now? To me, although I like Bourn, this is useless. He doesn’t solve the leadoff issue. 155 K’s is a LOT. No leadoff hitter has any business doing that. He could be a quality # 2 hitter and a better # 7.
To lose #11 pick for basically a transition guy is not a good move. Not good even if it’s a 2nd rounder.
I don’t beleve he would be around when the club actually contends.
Anyone remember Matt Lawton?

By: Guy

Guy — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 01:27:09 +0000

Hope they pass. He wont make a huge difference at this point. A few more wins? Eh, pass.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:31:08 +0000

You missed an important con, he strikes out a ton.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:19:41 +0000

That 11th pick with Flores and Syndergaurd could possibly be used to get Mike Stanton. So yes if they do not lose the pick and on a three year deal. Otherwise it is not worth right now. I’d prefer Gomez next year or Ellsbury.

By: larman

larman — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:16:50 +0000

Look everyone needs to know we do need bourn, one cause he can hit for average, steal bases and run down plays to centerfield, the braves got upton, so now we need to step up mets fan this is what we need, next year the freeagent market is bad next year, trades now are done so now let’s do it sandy and the mets brass show some balls for us mets fans and do it sign him to a three year deal at 40 million, do it.