And there is no guarantee Upton fills that huge need….
If he only hits 20 HRs once he gets here he’s about as filling a need as Duda is but just with a much better glove….

Truth is you could get what I think we WILL get from Upton from someone else….
Just spend 14 Million which is what your going to pay Upton anyway.
I think Upton is way more overhyped than Wheeler….
Cause at least Wheeler’s good numbers are consistent and not park dependent.

Now change the name you get to Stanton and it’s a much different story….
Like I said I don’t have the same high opinion of Upton as you do….
That seems to be the only real difference of opinion here…..

And while I am insisting on getting a Beltran for Wheeler thats only because if you don’t you made a bad deal in the first place you should never have gotten wheeler at all!
Now that you made that decision you have to make it work or at least get back what you gave or anyway you slice it you lost from where you started.

A lot of OPS guys disregard RBI ’s but in that stat there is a big differential favoring Beltran and I must admit I am an RBI guy.

Metsie bottom line Wheeler is a promissory note and J. Upton fills a huge need.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor

Chase Field #6 (and thats with Upton having a down year with the long ball.
Citifield #12 (and Ike’s 32 plus Hairston has a lot to do with being that high last year)

Look at 2011
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/year/2011/sort/HRFactor
1.095 compared to .735

For reference I refer you to my feelings at the time and soon after…

June 2011 – http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/06/forget-your-agendas-and-just-root-for-your-team.html

July 2011 – http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/07/mmo-fan-shot-mets-are-better-than-you-think-they-are.html

August 2011 – http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/08/mmo-fan-shot-believing-and-quitting-make-strange-bedfellows.html

Maybe you see what I believe we gave up on to get Wheeler and why if he was worth giving up that much then he had better get back much more than just Upton….

Wheeler may or may not be as good as his hype….
But you had better at least get back BETTER than you gave….
I’ll settle for Better than Beltran as a low mark….
But to make the deal a plus he had better bring back more than that.

Please start reading with this slide.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139160-5-most-hitter-friendly-ballparks-in-major-league-baseball/page/6

Sure Wheelers stock could drop in fact I will tell you now…He will look like he is having issues this year for the same reason why Upton is as good as he is when playing in the desert….

Park Factors will hurt his ERA, the HR Allowed and probably many other metrics…

Wheeler and Flores could both turn out to bust once they get here…But both are less likely to bust BEFORE they get here….
Upton could bust here too if all you get is the AWAY Upton and never see the HOME Upton from his previous seasons.

Flores has no place to be of use to us…Wheeler does he will take the place of either Dickey (if we don’t find another) or Santana when he leaves at the end of the season.

SO it makes much more sens to try and fix the OF by trading the guy we can’t use than the guy we can.

As for young and under team control that really doesn’t concern me at all…
Because he is still making 14 Mil a year the next two years…
Compare his youth and team control to Wheeler’s….
Wheeler wins on that front as well doesn’t he?

That 2013 ship has sailed UNLESS…..

They find someone who needs a 3B and has a kid OFer as good as Flores is and make a trade that benefits both teams in an equitable trade….

Remember Upton would upgrade what we have but then again almost ANYONE who has made the MLB could do that as well…Maybe not as much as Upton would but it also woun’t cost as much as wheeler….

The notion that we have NOTHING in the farm worth trading other than Wheeler is the part I railed against in that post you were referring to….
Thats why I called folks who suggest trading Wheeler “Lazy B’s”
Because they are willing to overpay merely because it’s easier to make that deal than it is to work the phones, find a fit and a player you CAN get for a Flores who has as much promise as Flores does but can play a position we NEED as opposed to Flores who has NO position except OUT of positon until 2020 when Wright expires….

There are other players (such as Snydergaard) now that could also be used to get you an OF prospect. Maybe even get you Upton without having to spend a Wheeler….

Of course the BEST course of action would be to sign a Free Agent if one was still avaialable but that ship has largely sailed.

The only major move you could make at this point is to sign Bourne and give up the 11th pick and truth is I would have no issues doing that. Sandy does but certainly not me!

And then when his situation has settled 2013 is pretty much DONE We Punted and 2013 is a fait acompli….

I would have preferred signing Victorino because at least thats one less OFer you need to buy next year…And then if the price for Upton comes down, another trade option presents itself, One of the kids we have shows everyone who says we have nothing up…You go from there…

The time to make 2013 meaningful was two months ago…Where there were options that didn’t require Wheeler to fix.

Sandy put us into a position to have to suggest trading Wheeler and truth is if it was a guy like Granderson Hamilton or Braun who hit righty I would have much less issue considering trading away Wheeler….
Cause then at least I’m getting 30-40 HRs not just 17 11 of which came at that HR hitters park with just 6 of them away from it. Even in years he hit 30, Two out of every 3 Hrs were in that park….

And that park is nothing like ours.
I’m willing to bet thats true for the three names I threw out there to some extent too….
Just saying Upton isn’t even in the top 40 last year in HRs, Hit .280 last year and is hardly a game changer for anyone but that team in that park.

Even Stanton is a better option than Upton is….He’s right behind the three I mentioned.

How in the world are we going to fix our OF situation which is going to hamstring us for years to come? What would you do. I know you said Victorino. But he is no longer an option. We need help and fast. You say Upton would be an upgrade and again Wheeler is still a prospect who can bust — to again quote you. I am looking to fix for 2013 and beyond as you say good GM’s would do, that is build incrementally. The “but” is we have a desperate need to fill.

Review….

Beltran equals Wheeler straight up right? (at least most people here say so)
Does Upton equal Beltran? In our Pitcher’s Park? With our dimensions instead of that HR hitters park, thinner lighter desert air where MORE THAN half of Uptons major production is made?

It’s about his Home Away splits and while many are willing to dismiss them I am not.
Beltran did MORE than Upton when he played half his games here….Upton in stadiums other than Chase field is a SHADOW of what Beltran is anywhere…..

SO I don’t see where it makes any sense to trade away a Beltran to get Wheeler only to downgrade (if thats an equal trade) to get Upton….

Sure Upton might be a good upgrade over what we have but it’s not worth that much in trade.
Cause I don’t think your getting the same upton unless you trade for thier stadium as well….

Clearer?

Because people keep counting that chicken and as far as I’m concerned it’s still in the egg stage….
ANything can happen in 3 years which is how long it will probably take to hatch him…Add the 3-4 years most Pitchers need to get to where they are at thier highest and thats almost a half a decade plus before that has any real added value…

I don’t see any kid controlling squat until he has had a few years in the league and experience with some top Pitchers (which he might get some here) to know how to help the ones who are less than great and need a good caller….

And while 20 HRs may be a lot for a catcher (at least these days it’s a lot Johnny Bench and Mike Piazza might think otherwise) it’s not a whole lot considering a platoon OFer we had last year did that and we refuse to sign him.

While I agree the C positon CAN be important (with the right player) it’s rarely the position that makes a 72 win team into a 95 win team….

Even Carter didn’t have that much affect and he could hit way more than 20 HRs.

Sandy is trying to sell us on HOW GREAT d’Arnaud is because lets be clear thats really all he got out of the Dickey trade that has any chance of making an impact in the next 3 years!

Well I got THIS for Dickey and what I got is so GOOD I could get MORE for him than Dickey got….

Typical Sandy Alderson bull$#!T

I doubt highyly he was getting anything all that good from anyone for d’Arnaud and I doubt highly he even got that offer…

This was just a sell job to make people think d’Arnaud was so good we STOLE him for a Cy Young Pitcher…

Well he better be that good or Sandy will lose his job before Snydergaard get to AAA!

YOUR REPLY = Well, it could be said that the Rangers are in win now mode and don’t want to rely on a rookie for offense when he will go through some growing pains.

Travis = rookie
Olt = rookie
Profur = rookie

Your statement makes NO sense

are you serious with that statement? What you said screams sarcastic, but it doesn’t seen ti match you thinking.

1st off, numbers mean little in the minors…it’s more about the ability to perform at a level biased on experience…it’s more about mentality and maturity…it’s about experience…

just because a guy shows good numbers at the plate in a hitters league does not mean he’s ready to face MLB pitchers…it also does not mean that he is ready to handle a MLB pitching staff full time. Now add in the fact that the “sample size” is reduced because of injury, you cutting back on the data being used from making any conclusions less than accurate.