18
2013
Strange Tales: So These Three GMs Walk Into A Bar…
An article by 
By now you’ve all made the rounds and got everybody’s take on Sandy Alderson’s interview with Mike Francesa yesterday. You know the one right? It was the interview that was the exact opposite of the first interview he did with Francesa back in October. Remember that one? The one where the Mets were going to be transformed into a contender for 2013 and fans were going to see so many significant changes that we wouldn’t be able to recognize the new team from the one that we ended the 2012 season with? Are we clear now? Okay, good, let’s move on.
I had this pretty long-winded post I worked on most of last night, but it was too long so I decided to break it up into a few parts. This first part is about the incredible back-story behind the R.A. Dickey trade. Fasten your seat belts.
Alderson: Well, I’ll tell you what’s interesting, Mike. We had been talking to two or three teams about R.A. Dickey, and we had an interest in a couple players from one team and we were prepared to make a trade to that team for those two players. After we made the deal with Toronto, we got a call from that team — they wouldn’t give us the two players for R.A., but they called us and said, “We’ll give you the two players for Travis d’Arnaud. Straight up.”
Francesa: Really? Interesting.
Alderson: Now at that point everyone had fallen in love with Travis, so we weren’t going to do that. And we’d fallen in love with the guy too.
Francesa: So you turned down those two players you wanted for Dickey, for d’Arnaud once you got him.
Alderson:Yeah, so we could have ended up with those two players plus all the other players we got from Toronto, but that’s not how we plotted it out.
Now let me get this straight… If memory serves me right, the only other team that we were in serious discussions with for R.A. Dickey at the time besides the Toronto, was the Texas Rangers. In fact the rumors had the Mets switching back and forth between both teams for what was a hectic 3-4 day period.
It was also widely reported that the key player the Mets wanted was 24 year-old corner infielder/outfielder Michael Olt, one of the premier power prospects in the minors. The right-handed slugger batted .282/.398/.521 with a league leading 28 home runs, 82 RBI and .977 OPS in 92 games for Double-A Frisco. The Rangers were convinced he was ready and promoted him from Double-A to the majors.
It was actually Ken Davidoff who first reported that it was the Mets who offered Dickey to the Rangers for a rich package that included prized prospect Mike Olt and another prospect. Later that day it was speculated that Mets also wanted either left-hander Martin Perez or right-hander Justin Grimm, but that was never confirmed. However it would of made perfect sense. About a day later the Rangers declined, the Mets moved onto Toronto, and soon after Dickey was packing his bags for Canada, eh.
So according to this story, right after the deal for Dickey was completed, Rangers GM Jon Daniels called Sandy Alderson back and then offered him the same exact package he initially refused for just Travis d’Arnaud alone?
In other words the Rangers #1 prospect Michael Olt plus one of their top pitching prospects Perez ranked #3 or Grimm ranked #4 for Travis d’Arnaud who was coming back from a season ending injury, his second season-ender in three years?
So if I’m getting all of this straight, the final haul for R.A. Dickey could have been:
- Top ranked power-hitting outfield prospect, Michael Olt
- Toronto’s top pitching prospect, Noah Syndergaard
- Rangers’ top pitching prospect LHP Martin Perez or RHP Justin Grimm
- Veteran major league catcher John Buck
- Promising outfield prospect Wuilmer Becerra
And we said NO…
Wow… Of all the crazy things Sandy has told us over the years, I think this yarn may be the most astonishing tale of them all.
Thanks to Amazin Avenue for transcribing the interview part…
I’ll be back later to discuss what Sandy had to say about his Mets offseason outfield plans back in in October, and what he had to say about his ragtag outfield yesterday. Riveting stuff…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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This is awful Joe D. First of all, the man is a liar, why would you believe him nor anyone else at this point.. He’s blowing smoke once again when he said that, don’t put too much into it. also, one thing i wanna point out, prospects are just that prospects, but remember the last texas super prospect that was traded for another cy young? What was his name? ohhh, yeah, Justin Smoak… Go look him up.
Great point Alex about the Texas prospects. Besides, I know it was a STRONG rumor that Texas was the other team but we can’t pull the what if nonsense unless we know for sure that it was Texas.
Mike Olt plays third base, Joe.
Not sure I would give up d’Arnaud for those two extra prospects either – good catching prospects should be locked away in Fort Knox. I’m still shocked the Mets even got him from Toronto.
You are making it seerm as if d’arnaud is a HOF. he’s nothing but a prospect who in 2 of last 3 years have suffered season ending injuries including last year where he missed half of season. Also, don’t forget he’s been traded twice already (be it for CY award winners) in 3 years. sometimes that can take a toll on you mentaly, remember as you should know because you played baseball, baseball is part physical part mental right? Who knows if being traded plays a role into what this kid will be. who knows if he wonders am i good enough NOT to be traded? Things like that you also have to take on consideration…
Still would take my chances with d’Arnaud over the other prospects. Pitching prospects are hit or miss and Olt would have to learn to play OF with David locked up now. d’Arnaud is major league ready, if he was in the lower rungs of the minors I would not endorse hanging on to him.
Major League Ready??? How so??? He hasn’t played any games in the majors for you to know, hell, he didn’t even finish the season last year for anyone to know how his stamina is gonna hold up. I like the kid and hope to do good, it was a good trade, but i think we shouldn’t say it was a better deal than having Olt because we don’t know how he’ll do either. Let’s just hope d’arnaud is not anotehr reese havens…
Alex I did a statistical analysis and d’Arnaud is ready! Who cares about the other baseball intangibles??? The numbers are what tell you when a player is ready, duuuuh
“Alex I did a statistical analysis and d’Arnaud is ready! Who cares about the other baseball intangibles??? The numbers are what tell you when a player is ready, duuuuh”
are you serious with that statement? What you said screams sarcastic, but it doesn’t seen ti match you thinking.
1st off, numbers mean little in the minors…it’s more about the ability to perform at a level biased on experience…it’s more about mentality and maturity…it’s about experience…
just because a guy shows good numbers at the plate in a hitters league does not mean he’s ready to face MLB pitchers…it also does not mean that he is ready to handle a MLB pitching staff full time. Now add in the fact that the “sample size” is reduced because of injury, you cutting back on the data being used from making any conclusions less than accurate.
I was messing around
Olt plays both corner infield positions and left and right field. When the Mets were after him it was well known it was to be a corner outfielder.
Duda can play both corner outfielders too…that doesn’t make him an outfielder. If he was that solid in the OF, the Rangers would just plug him in after losing Hamilton. He’s going to DH instead.
It was the Mets pushing him as an outfielder at the time. Obviously you are underrating Olt’s talent and skills.
The Mets will get anyone to try and play OF and the Rangers tried it because he’s blocked by Beltre and they can’t keep him in Triple-A forever.
I think we gave up the reigning Cy Young for him and 20 game winner for a 74 win team. Are you really that shocked? Really?
I could go either way…good catchers are hard to find.
I think we get to fixated on what positions people play. Other than pitcher, the other 8 are interchangeable as to where you get your production. And catcher is the worst position to have one of your better hitters because of all the games they sit. Especially in the non DH league. Remembrance how weak our lineup was when Piazza had to sit. That’s why Buster will be a long term 1st baseman.
Now we all know Alderson is a grade A liar and it has been proven time and again. But I wouldn’t trade Dikey for Mike Olt and Martin Perez. Thankfully that never happened. It’s bad enough we traded the cy young award winner for two prospects that may help us three years from now but at least they have some potential.
I think Sandy is a little annoyed that Alex A has been dissing him so why not use the opportunity to deflect from his off season failures to change the subject. Did you hear him sing Reyes praises at yesterday’s introductory press conference. Once in a genration player!!!! we offered a box of chocolates!!!!!!Guy Is awesome. Cleaned up Riccardis mess pretty quickly north of the border.
Cleaned up Riccardis mess pretty quickly north of the border”
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Too bad the guy is in NY now making yet another mess… Guess we don’t only need one GM to f*ck up the franchise, now we need 3 to totally destroy it.. SMH
Easy to just say this sort of thing but how many runs will it cost you by moving a good catcher from behind the plate to a less significant position like 1B? A good catcher controls the flow of the game and is like a second coach on the field. The idea of moving good catchers from behind the plate were devised by some guy looking at numbers instead of the impact it has on the game itself. If the guy is a crappy defensive catcher you certainly move him, because his offensive will help more in long run…but otherwise you leave them.
Only Yadier Molina comes to mind. The rest of the good hitting catchers should be dhing or playing 1st
Victor artinez, Brian McCann, posey, etc
And exactly my point…. You don’t need a good hitting catcher but one who calls a good game and played defense. Offense comes from other positions
The question you have to ask is d’Arnaud that kind of Catcher?
From what I have read he is not really all that much of a defensive strength he just hits better than the guys who are…
I don’t see any kid controlling squat until he has had a few years in the league and experience with some top Pitchers (which he might get some here) to know how to help the ones who are less than great and need a good caller….
And while 20 HRs may be a lot for a catcher (at least these days it’s a lot Johnny Bench and Mike Piazza might think otherwise) it’s not a whole lot considering a platoon OFer we had last year did that and we refuse to sign him.
While I agree the C positon CAN be important (with the right player) it’s rarely the position that makes a 72 win team into a 95 win team….
Even Carter didn’t have that much affect and he could hit way more than 20 HRs.
The only problem is that TD had already missed the rest of the season with a torn ligament in his knee, and in 2010 he missed the season with two bulging discs in his back. I have a feeling he’ll be handed a first baseman or outfield glove within 2-3 years to preserve his career. He’s already having knee and back problems as a catcher and he’s only 24. I love catchers too, but this one has already missed huge amounts of time with the kind of injuries you never want to see in a catcher.
You are assuming it was the Rangers. As we’ve all seen multiple times, none of us really have a clue as to what is going on behind the scenes.
Besides, it is possible Alderson wasn’t expecting D’Arnaud but was just sticking to him as a bargaining tactic. Maybe his talks with Texas were more “realistic”. When Toronto caved and threw in d’Arnaud, Alderson was blown away. Or maybe Texas was simply plan B. Once Alderson got the top guy he was aiming for, he saw no need to turn him around.
Besides, teams rarely swap prospects for prospects.
Besides, teams rarely swap prospects for prospects”
So are you saying your IDOL is lying about his story??????????????
no, it means why be surprised when the Mets and mystery team X did not swap porspect for prospect, when it rarely happens?
I don’t believe this ever really happened. I think Alderson wanted the listeners on WFAN to believe that the deal for Dickey was better than it was and to ad a mystique to it. Olt is more of a sure thing than D’Arnaud who put his numbers up in the PCL. And we needed an outfielder desperately. Alderson has a tendency to twist the truth all the time.
D’Arnaud has performed everywhere he played. And yes, the Mets need outfielders. But, they needed catchers too. Or were you happy with Josh Thole? And outfielders are easier to find than catchers.
Yes and you don’t have to trade a cy young winner and your best player to get them
There’s no way he would have gotten Olt, Syndergaard, Perez alone for Dickey, let alone the other two add-ons. This story wreaks.
Mike Francesa didnt seem to believe him either.
Really? Interesting. So you turned down those two players you wanted for Dickey, for d’Arnaud once you got him?
Who knows if the mystery team story is really true? But let’s assume it is. On that note, you can’t just say for sure the team is the Rangers and it centered around their prize prospect.
There’s probably enough facts that are true about this current FO and ‘the plan’ to spin up some of the fan base for years. No need to add supposition to the fray. What’s the point of that?
well, obviously whatever the mystery offer was was worth less than the Toronto package, or they would have taken it. without knowing who these 2 phantom guys are, hard to say if they are worth more (right now, to the mets) than Travis by himself.
Let’s assume this story is true. And let’s further assume one of those prospects was a highly regarded OF.
I can only assume the FO prizes the top prospect catcher more than the top prospect OF. Maybe b/c a good catcher these days is harder to obtain than an OF?
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/11/14/3644220/rangers-rumors-texas-targeting-blue-jays-catching.
This was published 11/14/12. I remember reading in fact that our main rival was indeed Texas for Travis Our- New catcher
I am very down on Sandy now about the OF and his lies about 2013: however; Jon Daniels who most of us wanted as GM in the first place would offer to give up that package for a so called “damaged goods” prospect shows what OUR_NEW catcher of the future is worth.
Yeah sorry – am I supposed to believe that Ken Davidoff or whoever reported that only Texas was in the mix are always right?
“In other words the Rangers #1 prospect Michael Olt plus one of their top pitching prospects Perez ranked #3 or Grimm ranked #4 for Travis d’Arnaud who was coming back from a season ending injury, his second season-ender in three years?”
First off, Profar is Texas’ #1 prospect. Second of all, I think there is a possibility that this didn’t happen but who cares? Maybe he’s trying to instill some confidence in a kid he views as his future catcher?
I think we’re also undervaluing the catcher position. If d’Arnaud is GOOD (not even great) his value is greater than Mike Olt. His value on a team with a lot of young SP is greater than more young SP because C and 3B in particular are weak positions in MLB right now.
So I’m sorry but I don’t really have a problem with Alderson being very happy with d’Arnaud. If he took your deal lets just say – then who is the C for the Mets? Plawecki? Maybe but you have no idea right now and d’Arnaud is ready in a few months.
What I still cant figure out is what happened to our catcher of the future Keven Plawecki? They couldn’t stop gloating about him last year and even brought him out to Citi Field twice to meet all the players or something. Wasn’t he supposed to be moving through the organization fast or something? I’m sure I read or heard something like that more than a few occasions. Is he trade bait now or was he never really as good as they said he was?
Plawecki was a good prospect, but d’Arnaud is a once every five years type of guy.
Exactly. This was an opportunity to improve at a premium position.
ecki was a good prospect, but d’Arnaud is a once every five years type of guy”
And yet we are told to be patient with the GM… SMH at what you are becoming mitch… Seriously what exactly are you drinking??
Alex, you didn’t like the Dickey trade? I actually thought it was great. I bet the majority of GMs would agree that Alderson picked Toronto’s pocket on that one. Dickey won a Cy Young but many teams won’t exchange top prospects for aging knuckleballers. Alderson took advantage of a team that is mortgaging their future to win now. I don’t praise much the Mets front office does, but that trade was excellent and I think Mets fans will be entertained by d’Arnaud for years to come.
Sandy very good at scoring except when the games are actually played. Great trade for the Blue Jays
What do you think of the trade if Snydergaard is a bust?
Because people keep counting that chicken and as far as I’m concerned it’s still in the egg stage….
ANything can happen in 3 years which is how long it will probably take to hatch him…Add the 3-4 years most Pitchers need to get to where they are at thier highest and thats almost a half a decade plus before that has any real added value…
I like the trade, point is we are in rebuilding mode and we still half azzed that as well, why signed DW then if we are going with a bunch of umproven rookies this year and the next year (which are probably DW’s last 2 good years)?? It makes no sense to do something half way, plus, not to mention how the team has done NOTHING to replace a Batting champ and a cy young in back to back years, the bullpen still awful, the OF has gotten worst, the offense stinks, D’arnaud is somehow gonna make that better? If anything, with no veteran presence on the team, SA is setting wheeler and d’arnaud to fail big time by taggin them as the Faces of the future for the franchise, and we’ve seen how many of this kids who are pegged to be the saviors of the franchise explode once they arrive in the scene due to the amount of pressure they carry… I hope you’re right and this kid becomes the next star for us, but i don’t see it happening for as long as SA is the guy leading the front
I really don’t understand why so many here who claim to be baseball aficionados undervalue what is arguably the most important position player in the game, catcher. Offense is important, obviously, but championship teams are built first on defense and catcher is the heart of not just the battery but the defense.
There is a reason teams are drooling over d’Arnaud and willing to give up significant pieces for him. It really isn’t that hard to figure out.
Exactly Boomer. And if Plawecki turns out to be a solid catcher, then guess what – the Mets have TWO quality players at a position of weakness. Toronto did that and got a cy young winner for it. Philadelphia did that with Ruiz/d’Arnaud and got Halladay because of it.
Buster Posey (2), Yadier Molina (2), Jorge Posada, Carlos Ruiz, and Jason Varitek have been behind the plate for the last 7 World Series championships. It’s also likely not a coincidence that those 5 catchers came up to the big leagues with the team they won their titles with.
@boomer – thank you for the last comment
This.
LOL
Kevin was DH for 30% of the season and they even tried him at 1B during practice and I think he played a game there…
does not sound like he is sticking as a catcher
Juan Centeno on the other hand…
Wah wah wah…..Sandy Alderson is a liar. Wah wah wah……the story he told Francesa was not believable……even though NONE OF US have any way to know for sure what 2 prospects he was referring to because no one is really privy to the conversations that actually take place. And even if they were Olt and Perez or Grimm, perhaps keeping D’Arnaud might still be the better move. Oh but wait……wah wah wah……D’Arnaud is just a broken down injury prone prospect that had 2 of his last 3 seasons ending with injuries even though the RA trade was marveled over by a consensus of other GM’s.
This was nothing for me to fasten my seat belt over. We get it….you don’t like Sandy Alderson.
ahh ahhh ahhhh ahhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhh-bullshit!
Franchise Catchers don’t grow on trees
I don’t have a problem with GM’s lying they all do it. What concerns me was how elaborate this one was and that there was no need to drum it up. The deal is done and most Met fans are very happy with the return. I didn’t understand the need to tell a story like this just to make more out of it than it really was?
How long before Damaja reports in and says we should’ve traded d’Arnaud because Centeno is the next Yogi Berra?
The next Yogi Berra?
I was thinking somewhere between Carlton Fisk and Pudge Rodriguez
So, we’re judging a player’s potential on height now?
Not judging any player on size, Donal. That’s why I mentioned Yogi Berra because he is a perfect example of why you can’t do that. It’s a shame though because Centeno is a solid catcher but will be overlooked because of his size. But I think he has an invite to spring training so he will get his chance to show them he belongs.
“It’s a shame though because Centeno is a solid catcher but will be overlooked because of his size”
plus where he was drafted, i think he was in the 32nd round or something crazy like that.
When u are a 1st round draft pick ( aka high visibility ) front offices tend to give them alot more lee-way.
This is why u hear Kevin Pawlecki’s name over and over and over again…
From a production standpoint, Juan has to grossly outproduce Kevin and Travis to make up for the projected “potential” stats Kevin has in his future.
From a defensive standpoint ( because rumor has it catchers are supposed to be important defensively ) Juan actually is the best catcher in our org ( pre-travis )
Only journalists, stat geeks and fan boys put a catchers offensive numbers front and center.
Defense is much more important than offense
Valid points – and his power hurts him from the catcher position. To be honest, I never have seen him play defense, I saw a few videos of him hitting on you tube but I’m looking forward to seeing him play this spring – hopefully the Mets give him some burn. You have certainly peaked my interest in this guy.
teams do it all the time. especially with SPs, but for position players too.
no…rumor has it that centeno actually is a really good defensive catcher who makes good contact and has a decent batting average.
if travis has a set back with his knee or back and the mets want to take their time…its very well possible that centeno Wally Pips him
Funny you criticize dmaja for loving a mets C prospect that has heart and the wil to be great yet you are pegging d’arnaud to be a HOF already when he can’t even finish a season without being on the DL and already with back and knee injuries to his repertoire…
I wasn’t criticizing him I was joking because I know how much he likes Centeno. I never said d’Arnaud would be in the hall of fame but I’m still shocked the Mets got him. He still has to prove his worth on the field.
Now that was funny. Is Centeno even in the Mets top 50?
Come on, there is a reason why Texas would give up those two prospects for Darnaud and not Dickey! Getting a possible premier catcher for the next 8 years is much more lucrative than getting a corner outfielder who is a third baseman. Olt has his question marks as does every prospect, but Darnaud is heralded and praised by all scouts and top baseball people.I will take their view over say bloggers. Darnaud solidifies the infield and could possibly hit 5th or 6th, you get a catcher like that you keep him,especially on a team rebuilding.
Sounds like Sandy is in selling tickets mode !!!
Sandy: After we made the Dickey trade, Jeff Loria offered Giavanni Stanton for Travis D’anard straight up…but franchise catchers dont grow on trees…aka….when we bring up Travis ( and we are hoping he mashes AAA pitching by June ) please come and support Travis by buying a ticket and helping us pay the rent !
You mean Giancarlo Stanton?
oops lol
I’ve yet to see you write something that wasn’t negative, why would we want Mike Olt, if the Rangers thought he could play the OF then why are they spending the whole off season looking for one, why not just plug him in for Hamilton. I’ll tell you why , let me go slow, because he’s NOT an Of”er.
Well, it could be said that the Rangers are in win now mode and don’t want to rely on a rookie for offense when he will go through some growing pains.
…and travis is a rookie…
lol met fans
WTF?? isn’t d’arnaud a rookie?? Growing pains behind the plate… You’re a moron…
So, you guys need “win now mode” defined for you?
Or will you at least do me the courtesy of actually reading my full post next time?
no, but obviously you need the term “rookie” defined to you.
Unless you think Travis is Thurman Munson reincarnated
Did I say anything like that?
Someone mentioned reasons for the Rangers to not just plug Olt into their line up to replace Hamilton right away.
You and alex decided to show off you poor reading and reasoning skills.
And Sandy said it was for ….David Wright? no
And Sandy said it was for ….Ike Davis? no
And Sandy said it was for ….Johan Santana? no
And Sandy said it was for ….Travis D’anard…a ROOKIE ? YES !!!!
What? Seriously, we’re not having the same conversation.
Would you rather have Zach Wheeler or instead have Noah Syndergaard and Michael Fulmer ?
Because pretty much the question is whether you´d rather have D´Arnaud (# 10 to # 15 prospect in Baseball) or Olt (# 30 to # 50 prospect in Baseball) and Grimm (maybe # 75 to # 100 prospect in Baseball).
Considering that Olt plays 3b where the Mets have Wright for 8 years & Flores on the farm, plus a significant chunk of Olt´s value stemming from strong defense at 3b, I probably agree that I´d rather keep D´Arnaud myself.
Again, pretty much everyone in Baseball was stunned that the Mets were somehow able to get BOTH D´Arnaud and Syndergaard in this deal.
Had the trade been Dickey – Thole – Nickeas for D´Arnaud – Becerra – Buck, everyone would have agreed it was a fine & fair trade for both teams. Jays getting Dickey & two surplus catchers with marginal value who know how to catch him, Mets get a marginal veteran stop gap C, arguably the best C prospect in Baseball and a longterm flyer prospect with upside but years away.
That Syndergaard was also in the package was a major coup for the Mets and a pretty significant overpay by the Jays – of course justified by their “all in” approach in 2013 during a window where both the Red Sox & Yankees seem more vulnerable than usually while the Rays are constantly remodeling.
In general, pretty much the Dickey trade sealed that 2013 was going to be a rebuilding year. Whether we like it or not.
‘Jays getting Dickey & two surplus catchers with marginal value who know how to catch him…’
On that note, Jays signed Henry Blanco as well. A catcher Dickey once said had the best success at catching his knuckleball of all catchers he’s ever worked with.
You think AA is worried about Dickey and that knuckleball? LOL.
It´s a sound strategy. Arencibia – Thole – Blanco provide for plenty of depth. Nickeas is basically a worst-case insurance policy at AAA if injuries strike and a 4th C is needed.
Smart planning on AA´s part…
Like that another person said above me, this was a BS story intended to sell tickets. In fact right after this story I think Alderson said why dont you fans come join me on April 4 to see Wheeler pitch to D’Arnaud in Las Vegas. lol
I’ll be there Frank, but if your going you should know the game is in Sacramento, home to the A’s AAA team, and one of the finest minor league parks anywhere.
I cant stand that Alderson always creates these dramas needlessly. All because he had nothing else to talk about regarding his offseason. All he had was one thing to report so he had to embellish it. What is he like nine years old? He’s prevailed over his third straight offseason in which he weakened the product on the field. That should be the real story today, not this.
Cerrone just posted this, I am shocked:
“The outfield is a joke. I’m sure Alderson made efforts to improve it, and I’m sure he’s still working on it and might still pull a miracle. But, so far, the results have been disappointing…”
He better be careful the 3 headed hydra will not be pleased.
Salty, i don’t believe you.. Did he posted it on an article or a comment he made??
The line is right next to his picture on the front page.
No worries – in 12 hours he’ll completely change his mind and say something to the effect of the OF isn’t as bad as everyone presumes it to be.
He’s the most bipolar Met fan out there – IMO.
He’s the most bipolar Met fan out there – IMO.”
JesseP Doubts that….
Nice complete and total speculation post.
an agenda is a terrible thing to waste.
Nice complete and total speculation post”
Wait a second, are you BASHING your so called friend Joe D for posting something your idol sandy alderson said???? Shouldn’t you be getting on SA for actually saying it??????????? You are something else you know that….
Speculating is fun. you might find gold!
Quality is better than quantity. If that discussion about the two prospects for d’Arnaud actually took place, I’m glad Sandy rejected it. d’Arnaud is the unquestionable #1 catching prospect in baseball. The Mets have been trotting out Josh Thole the past couple of seasons… He means much more to this organization from a needs standpoint than getting another corner infielder (or mediocre corner outfielder) would be. Olt is clearly blocked at both corner infield spots. He could potentially be a corner outfielder, but the Mets would then have two inconsistent gloves in the corner outfield spots.
Even the thought of throwing in another pitching prospect would not change my mind. The Mets have a lot of promising pitching prospects, starting with Harvey getting his first full year in the Majors this year, followed quickly by Wheeler making his debut this year. Not to mention Syndegaard, Gorski, McHugh, Mateo, Leathersich, Mazzoni, (should I keep going?) all looking to crack the roster in the coming years.
It’s really great to see that d’Arnaud is regarded so highly that a trade we couldn’t get with Dickey, we could get for d’Arnaud. That says a lot about the potential scouts see in him. So I’m glad he’s on our side.
One thing i get from Sandy is he sure know to rip people in trades but he is a dumbass when it comes to putting the team. I think he should be a scout not a gm.
I think that tidbit offered by Sandy is true. Numerous teams had asked the Blue Jays about D”Arnaud and the Rangers catching situation was weak. Daniels had to settle for ancient Pierzynski. And Olt is a spare part to Daniels. But, why would Daniels expect Sandy to just flip D’Arnaud when he was a must have for Sandy from the Jays for Dickey. Position scarcity. BTW, Sandy had offered Jon Niese str8 up for D’Arnaud last offseason but was rebuffed.
The saddest thing about our Mets, is that we (you know the most passionate who actually frequent and share comments on blogs) have been left to spend more energy defending the vision, the new organizational structure, the resources or lack thereof, the GM, the front office, the intentions of the owners, and the like. Even more sad is our present day fate. We can argue and defend all we want, but realistic Mets fans know that things are awful today and hope for tomorrow is fleeting at best.
LIke I said yesterday, in year three of Sandy, we remain the fourth best team in our own division. Our farm system is in the 15-20 range. And our MLB talent and future prospects cannot presently compare to the Braves or Nats. Three GMs walk into the bar, and give any excuse you want, but the reality is our team is awful and our future is bleak when compared to say the Nats or Braves….all under their watch.
Hank, Motherf****** THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The CORE salute you.. Couldn’t have said it better….
This article is about Sandy saying the Rangers wanted to trade 2 of their top prospects for travis
YOUR REPLY = Well, it could be said that the Rangers are in win now mode and don’t want to rely on a rookie for offense when he will go through some growing pains.
Travis = rookie
Olt = rookie
Profur = rookie
Your statement makes NO sense
You know I think when I hear that story?
Sandy is trying to sell us on HOW GREAT d’Arnaud is because lets be clear thats really all he got out of the Dickey trade that has any chance of making an impact in the next 3 years!
Well I got THIS for Dickey and what I got is so GOOD I could get MORE for him than Dickey got….
Typical Sandy Alderson bull$#!T
I doubt highyly he was getting anything all that good from anyone for d’Arnaud and I doubt highly he even got that offer…
This was just a sell job to make people think d’Arnaud was so good we STOLE him for a Cy Young Pitcher…
Well he better be that good or Sandy will lose his job before Snydergaard get to AAA!
Metsie I would trade Wheeler for Upton because we have a desprate need do fill for short term and long term. You called peopled “B__tds” who would entertain such a trade. You contradict yourself and you will attempt to wiggle you way out of this. After all when Sandy got Wheeler he is just a wild pitching prospect who proved nothing in the big leagues. Metsie we disagreed alotb but you and Joey D. sold me why not rebuuild and be competiive at the same time and you were both correct. Here I want to be compettive for 2013 and get Justin Upton for 2013 and for many more years including a championship,
Hotstreak….Maybe you misintepret my lack of desire to trade Wheeler for Upton….
Has more to do with Upton than trading Wheeler…..
Review….
Beltran equals Wheeler straight up right? (at least most people here say so)
Does Upton equal Beltran? In our Pitcher’s Park? With our dimensions instead of that HR hitters park, thinner lighter desert air where MORE THAN half of Uptons major production is made?
It’s about his Home Away splits and while many are willing to dismiss them I am not.
Beltran did MORE than Upton when he played half his games here….Upton in stadiums other than Chase field is a SHADOW of what Beltran is anywhere…..
SO I don’t see where it makes any sense to trade away a Beltran to get Wheeler only to downgrade (if thats an equal trade) to get Upton….
Sure Upton might be a good upgrade over what we have but it’s not worth that much in trade.
Cause I don’t think your getting the same upton unless you trade for thier stadium as well….
Clearer?
Yes It is definitely clearer but there is a “but”.
How in the world are we going to fix our OF situation which is going to hamstring us for years to come? What would you do. I know you said Victorino. But he is no longer an option. We need help and fast. You say Upton would be an upgrade and again Wheeler is still a prospect who can bust — to again quote you. I am looking to fix for 2013 and beyond as you say good GM’s would do, that is build incrementally. The “but” is we have a desperate need to fill.
Well it’s way too late to fix 2013…Thats why we are complaining and NOT ACCEPTING the excuses some (not you) are making when they say the offseason isn’t over yet and some move can still be made….
That 2013 ship has sailed UNLESS…..
They find someone who needs a 3B and has a kid OFer as good as Flores is and make a trade that benefits both teams in an equitable trade….
Remember Upton would upgrade what we have but then again almost ANYONE who has made the MLB could do that as well…Maybe not as much as Upton would but it also woun’t cost as much as wheeler….
The notion that we have NOTHING in the farm worth trading other than Wheeler is the part I railed against in that post you were referring to….
Thats why I called folks who suggest trading Wheeler “Lazy B’s”
Because they are willing to overpay merely because it’s easier to make that deal than it is to work the phones, find a fit and a player you CAN get for a Flores who has as much promise as Flores does but can play a position we NEED as opposed to Flores who has NO position except OUT of positon until 2020 when Wright expires….
There are other players (such as Snydergaard) now that could also be used to get you an OF prospect. Maybe even get you Upton without having to spend a Wheeler….
Of course the BEST course of action would be to sign a Free Agent if one was still avaialable but that ship has largely sailed.
The only major move you could make at this point is to sign Bourne and give up the 11th pick and truth is I would have no issues doing that. Sandy does but certainly not me!
And then when his situation has settled 2013 is pretty much DONE We Punted and 2013 is a fait acompli….
I would have preferred signing Victorino because at least thats one less OFer you need to buy next year…And then if the price for Upton comes down, another trade option presents itself, One of the kids we have shows everyone who says we have nothing up…You go from there…
The time to make 2013 meaningful was two months ago…Where there were options that didn’t require Wheeler to fix.
Sandy put us into a position to have to suggest trading Wheeler and truth is if it was a guy like Granderson Hamilton or Braun who hit righty I would have much less issue considering trading away Wheeler….
Cause then at least I’m getting 30-40 HRs not just 17 11 of which came at that HR hitters park with just 6 of them away from it. Even in years he hit 30, Two out of every 3 Hrs were in that park….
And that park is nothing like ours.
I’m willing to bet thats true for the three names I threw out there to some extent too….
Just saying Upton isn’t even in the top 40 last year in HRs, Hit .280 last year and is hardly a game changer for anyone but that team in that park.
Even Stanton is a better option than Upton is….He’s right behind the three I mentioned.
Metsie: A lot of thought when in your post. I view it as betting in a horse race where a former elite thoroughbred horse has a recent bad track record. He is no longer the favorite as his stock has dropped. Yes Wheeler stock now is high but can nose dive to zilch such as Barry Zito or Scott Kazmir. Yes splits are important but I can’t think of an offensive player whose stats nosedived after leaving Chase Park. Justin Upton is young and under team control. It takes a bold move to get him and I am sure Minaya would do it in a heart beat. However lets take your plan about Flores. I in another post proposed Flores to Yankees for Brett Gardner. Do you think that is feasible? Would you do it? Would the Yankees do it?
Well I guess you missed my mentioning his 2011 season of 30 HRs where 20 of them were at that park as well….
Sure Wheelers stock could drop in fact I will tell you now…He will look like he is having issues this year for the same reason why Upton is as good as he is when playing in the desert….
Park Factors will hurt his ERA, the HR Allowed and probably many other metrics…
Wheeler and Flores could both turn out to bust once they get here…But both are less likely to bust BEFORE they get here….
Upton could bust here too if all you get is the AWAY Upton and never see the HOME Upton from his previous seasons.
Flores has no place to be of use to us…Wheeler does he will take the place of either Dickey (if we don’t find another) or Santana when he leaves at the end of the season.
SO it makes much more sens to try and fix the OF by trading the guy we can’t use than the guy we can.
As for young and under team control that really doesn’t concern me at all…
Because he is still making 14 Mil a year the next two years…
Compare his youth and team control to Wheeler’s….
Wheeler wins on that front as well doesn’t he?
Metsie you seem to love Wheeler who Sandy obtained for a player with no draft rights available to the Giants. Beltran could have in effect been a Reyes situation. Mark Reynolds in 2009 hit 44 hrs. for the D’backs and 25 of them were on the road. Please name me a player who not due to age who left the D’backs and had significantly less offensive numbers at a new stadium as his home ball park. Chase Field is not Coors Field. Yes it is an offensive park but not to the extreme you make it. Chase Field did not even make the five most hitter friendly parks.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139160-5-most-hitter-friendly-ballparks-in-major-league-baseball/page/6
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139160-5-most-hitter-friendly-ballparks-in-major-league-baseball
Please start reading with this slide.
No Slide needed….
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
Chase Field #6 (and thats with Upton having a down year with the long ball.
Citifield #12 (and Ike’s 32 plus Hairston has a lot to do with being that high last year)
Look at 2011
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/year/2011/sort/HRFactor
1.095 compared to .735
Your looking at it as if I think we just gave up Beltran to get Wheeler…
But I’m including the 2011 season in the loss column….
For reference I refer you to my feelings at the time and soon after…
June 2011 – http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/06/forget-your-agendas-and-just-root-for-your-team.html
July 2011 – http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/07/mmo-fan-shot-mets-are-better-than-you-think-they-are.html
August 2011 – http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/08/mmo-fan-shot-believing-and-quitting-make-strange-bedfellows.html
Maybe you see what I believe we gave up on to get Wheeler and why if he was worth giving up that much then he had better get back much more than just Upton….
Wheeler may or may not be as good as his hype….
But you had better at least get back BETTER than you gave….
I’ll settle for Better than Beltran as a low mark….
But to make the deal a plus he had better bring back more than that.
Wheeler may or may not be as good as his hype…TRUE or he may be better
Better than Beltran at 2006 and 2007 or 2010? Or Career
Career: Beltran BA .282/ HRS. 22.3 /OPS .856
Career: J. Upton: . BA .278 HRS. 24.0 /OPS .832
A lot of OPS guys disregard RBI ’s but in that stat there is a big differential favoring Beltran and I must admit I am an RBI guy.
Metsie bottom line Wheeler is a promissory note and J. Upton fills a huge need.
yes he is…d’Arnaud too!
Both are promisory notes who are due for cashing in this year….
And there is no guarantee Upton fills that huge need….
If he only hits 20 HRs once he gets here he’s about as filling a need as Duda is but just with a much better glove….
Truth is you could get what I think we WILL get from Upton from someone else….
Just spend 14 Million which is what your going to pay Upton anyway.
I think Upton is way more overhyped than Wheeler….
Cause at least Wheeler’s good numbers are consistent and not park dependent.
Now change the name you get to Stanton and it’s a much different story….
Like I said I don’t have the same high opinion of Upton as you do….
That seems to be the only real difference of opinion here…..
And while I am insisting on getting a Beltran for Wheeler thats only because if you don’t you made a bad deal in the first place you should never have gotten wheeler at all!
Now that you made that decision you have to make it work or at least get back what you gave or anyway you slice it you lost from where you started.
[...] Strange Tales: So These Three GMs Walk Into A Bar… | Mets … Fasten your seat belts. Strange Tales. Alderson: Well, I'll tell you what's interesting, Mike. We had been talking to two or three teams about R.A. Dickey, and we had an interest in a couple players from one team and we were prepared to make a trade to that team for those two players. After we made the deal with Toronto, we . This is awful Joe D. First of all, the man is a liar, why would you believe him nor anyone else at this point. He's blowing smoke once again when . [...]