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	<title>Comments on: Stan Musial And Frank Thomas Recall A Cleaner Time</title>
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		<title>By: Joey D.</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352936</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 05:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi John,

Stan Musial was indeed a gentleman by all accounts.  When one has to look hard to find a bad word about him in today&#039;s age of the internet - and come up empty - it says an awful lot about the individual.

I am also glad you brought up the subject of Joe DiMaggio because he is so opposite the persona that the fans made of him.  One could say neither was the Mick, however, with Mantle he did not go out of his way to foster a false image about himself - DiMaggio, on the other hand, did that with a passion.  I too heard that story about the fan being told that a cancelled check was the only way he would give him an autograph.  DiMaggio did everything he could to make Mantle uncomfortable.  In fact, I&#039;ve been told that when Mantle injured his knee in the &#039;51 world series and lying down in pain, DiMaggio was nowhere to be seen.   What leadership.

But getting back to the &quot;man&quot;, as much as a gentleman he truly was, I would hesitate to conclude how any one player in the past would conduct himself in today&#039;s time.   I don&#039;t mean by not being any less the gentleman but that things being different in today&#039;s business world where there is less room for sentimentality on either side.  Today, general managers like Sandy Alderson say they have to keep away from developing personal relationships with the players.  Cordial ones, yes, but not personal.  They separate the employee from the employer with the front office not having the same interaction with the players like they did then when baseball was run more as a mom and pop business and the reserve clause did bind many closer together. 

So I&#039;m glad Stan was from a different era because he deserved to be a part of &quot;when it was a game&quot; instead of today when everything is seen in terms of business.   For myself, I wouldn&#039;t want to be a part of that era for many reasons, one because those times created the need to honor one today with a rotunda in tribute for the courage he displayed - I&#039;m sure  the late Jackie Robinson would have traded all the honors bestowed on him for just having the simple opportunity of having been allowed to be judged as a man in his younger days.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>Stan Musial was indeed a gentleman by all accounts.  When one has to look hard to find a bad word about him in today&#8217;s age of the internet &#8211; and come up empty &#8211; it says an awful lot about the individual.</p>
<p>I am also glad you brought up the subject of Joe DiMaggio because he is so opposite the persona that the fans made of him.  One could say neither was the Mick, however, with Mantle he did not go out of his way to foster a false image about himself &#8211; DiMaggio, on the other hand, did that with a passion.  I too heard that story about the fan being told that a cancelled check was the only way he would give him an autograph.  DiMaggio did everything he could to make Mantle uncomfortable.  In fact, I&#8217;ve been told that when Mantle injured his knee in the &#8217;51 world series and lying down in pain, DiMaggio was nowhere to be seen.   What leadership.</p>
<p>But getting back to the &#8220;man&#8221;, as much as a gentleman he truly was, I would hesitate to conclude how any one player in the past would conduct himself in today&#8217;s time.   I don&#8217;t mean by not being any less the gentleman but that things being different in today&#8217;s business world where there is less room for sentimentality on either side.  Today, general managers like Sandy Alderson say they have to keep away from developing personal relationships with the players.  Cordial ones, yes, but not personal.  They separate the employee from the employer with the front office not having the same interaction with the players like they did then when baseball was run more as a mom and pop business and the reserve clause did bind many closer together. </p>
<p>So I&#8217;m glad Stan was from a different era because he deserved to be a part of &#8220;when it was a game&#8221; instead of today when everything is seen in terms of business.   For myself, I wouldn&#8217;t want to be a part of that era for many reasons, one because those times created the need to honor one today with a rotunda in tribute for the courage he displayed &#8211; I&#8217;m sure  the late Jackie Robinson would have traded all the honors bestowed on him for just having the simple opportunity of having been allowed to be judged as a man in his younger days.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352525</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently the two had quite a relationship.   After he signed with the Angels Musial (or his people) sent AP a tweet wishing him the best.

As well as AP took offense to billboards being posted calling him El Hombre

&quot;While spending 11 seasons in St. Louis, Pujols developed a friendship with Cardinal legend Stan &quot;The Man&quot; Musial. Pujols often pleaded St. Louis fans and media to stop referring to him as &quot;El Hombre&quot; to respect Stan Musial&#039;s nickname and it appears Pujols demands the same in Los Angeles.&quot;

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1077515-los-angeles-angels-albert-pujols-is-not-the-man]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the two had quite a relationship.   After he signed with the Angels Musial (or his people) sent AP a tweet wishing him the best.</p>
<p>As well as AP took offense to billboards being posted calling him El Hombre</p>
<p>&#8220;While spending 11 seasons in St. Louis, Pujols developed a friendship with Cardinal legend Stan &#8220;The Man&#8221; Musial. Pujols often pleaded St. Louis fans and media to stop referring to him as &#8220;El Hombre&#8221; to respect Stan Musial&#8217;s nickname and it appears Pujols demands the same in Los Angeles.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1077515-los-angeles-angels-albert-pujols-is-not-the-man" rel="nofollow">http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1077515-los-angeles-angels-albert-pujols-is-not-the-man</a></p>
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		<title>By: taskmaster4450</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352439</link>
		<dc:creator>taskmaster4450</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have wondered about all the late 30s and 40 year old players on the Yankees still performing at a high level.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have wondered about all the late 30s and 40 year old players on the Yankees still performing at a high level.</p>
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		<title>By: Metro12</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352425</link>
		<dc:creator>Metro12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And those early bans covered HGH too, btw.

I believe only Andro was at one point not banned by either federal law or baseball -- at the time a can of it was seen in McGwire&#039;s locker. Only later did federal law regulate andro.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And those early bans covered HGH too, btw.</p>
<p>I believe only Andro was at one point not banned by either federal law or baseball &#8212; at the time a can of it was seen in McGwire&#8217;s locker. Only later did federal law regulate andro.</p>
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		<title>By: Metro12</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352422</link>
		<dc:creator>Metro12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[taskmaster, steroids were banned by baseball in 1971, as they were covered by a general rule banning all illegal use of drugs. And they were specifically banned by name since at least 1991 when Fay Vincent wrote a memo outlawing them in baseball. The bans were specifically written into the CBA. 

As for HGH, the biggest problem testing for it has been the lack of a viable test. Even today, the test they have can only detect HGH taken within a few days the HGH was used.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>taskmaster, steroids were banned by baseball in 1971, as they were covered by a general rule banning all illegal use of drugs. And they were specifically banned by name since at least 1991 when Fay Vincent wrote a memo outlawing them in baseball. The bans were specifically written into the CBA. </p>
<p>As for HGH, the biggest problem testing for it has been the lack of a viable test. Even today, the test they have can only detect HGH taken within a few days the HGH was used.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex68</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352418</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex68</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exactly, which is my point when you see some of these guys gained muscles like nothing over the winter was very strange to me, HGH is huge in baseball because it helps you grow quicker than expected, Like i said, many players took it not only to gain strenght, but to avoid getting hurt as well, making their career last even longer]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, which is my point when you see some of these guys gained muscles like nothing over the winter was very strange to me, HGH is huge in baseball because it helps you grow quicker than expected, Like i said, many players took it not only to gain strenght, but to avoid getting hurt as well, making their career last even longer</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: taskmaster4450</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352415</link>
		<dc:creator>taskmaster4450</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am with you on this one Alex.  I feel that almost all players who were in the majors in the 90s and early 2000s were on something.  Not all were into the steroids but I believe that HGH was commonplace.  And really, I do not fault the players at all on that part.  Steroids were illegal, HGH was not.  Neither was banned by baseball so they didnt cross the line there.  But how can a player really be faulted for taking a substance that was legal in the US and not banned by baseball.  To them, it is no different than vitamins.

And isnt it ironic, that now, over a decade after much of this came out, is baseball only implementing testing for HGH.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am with you on this one Alex.  I feel that almost all players who were in the majors in the 90s and early 2000s were on something.  Not all were into the steroids but I believe that HGH was commonplace.  And really, I do not fault the players at all on that part.  Steroids were illegal, HGH was not.  Neither was banned by baseball so they didnt cross the line there.  But how can a player really be faulted for taking a substance that was legal in the US and not banned by baseball.  To them, it is no different than vitamins.</p>
<p>And isnt it ironic, that now, over a decade after much of this came out, is baseball only implementing testing for HGH.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: taskmaster4450</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352411</link>
		<dc:creator>taskmaster4450</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;There&#039;s no crying in baseball!&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s no crying in baseball!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex68</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352410</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex68</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes. It&#039;s supposed to do the things you do but at even better range and proportion, that is why a guy like barry bonds who was a great quick swing type of guy, fast with his hands and great reflex, became invinsible, you cound&#039;t pitch to him at any point in the game, once i saw he could turn an inside 99 MPH Fastball into a HR i gave into him being the best of all time.. then the PED&#039;s allegations came out and i knew something was up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. It&#8217;s supposed to do the things you do but at even better range and proportion, that is why a guy like barry bonds who was a great quick swing type of guy, fast with his hands and great reflex, became invinsible, you cound&#8217;t pitch to him at any point in the game, once i saw he could turn an inside 99 MPH Fastball into a HR i gave into him being the best of all time.. then the PED&#8217;s allegations came out and i knew something was up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Boomer</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352407</link>
		<dc:creator>Boomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh come on.  It&#039;s just a spleen.  Rub some dirt on it and suck it up, Nancy.  

Yes, I am becoming my father.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh come on.  It&#8217;s just a spleen.  Rub some dirt on it and suck it up, Nancy.  </p>
<p>Yes, I am becoming my father.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: TRS86</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352397</link>
		<dc:creator>TRS86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well poor Pavano just lost an organ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well poor Pavano just lost an organ.</p>
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		<title>By: taskmaster4450</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352389</link>
		<dc:creator>taskmaster4450</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read they also helped greatly with reflex time which cannot hurt in a game like baseball.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read they also helped greatly with reflex time which cannot hurt in a game like baseball.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Metro12</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352388</link>
		<dc:creator>Metro12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the Nats will sign Pavano to take his place! :grin:]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the Nats will sign Pavano to take his place! <img src='http://smhttp.18058.nexcesscdn.net/808D60/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':grin:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alex68</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352384</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex68</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wouldn&#039;t bet against it. I love piazza, and i think he&#039;s the greatest hitting catcher of all time, however, all these guys benefitted from PED&#039;s, because remember, not only they made tou stronger, but also kept you from injury or in some cases, help you healed quickly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t bet against it. I love piazza, and i think he&#8217;s the greatest hitting catcher of all time, however, all these guys benefitted from PED&#8217;s, because remember, not only they made tou stronger, but also kept you from injury or in some cases, help you healed quickly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jessep</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352383</link>
		<dc:creator>jessep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And just minutes ago you have a story that links not only Alex Rodriguez to PED which everybody will focus on - but Gio Gonzalez as well

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-01-31/news/a-rod-and-doping-a-miami-clinic-supplies-drugs-to-sports-biggest-names/

Gio&#039;s name being on the list could have huge ramifications because players can be suspended if allegations check out. You do not need a test to suspend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just minutes ago you have a story that links not only Alex Rodriguez to PED which everybody will focus on &#8211; but Gio Gonzalez as well</p>
<p><a href="http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-01-31/news/a-rod-and-doping-a-miami-clinic-supplies-drugs-to-sports-biggest-names/" rel="nofollow">http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-01-31/news/a-rod-and-doping-a-miami-clinic-supplies-drugs-to-sports-biggest-names/</a></p>
<p>Gio&#8217;s name being on the list could have huge ramifications because players can be suspended if allegations check out. You do not need a test to suspend.</p>
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		<title>By: taskmaster4450</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352380</link>
		<dc:creator>taskmaster4450</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Had there been free-agency during Musial’s era, it would have been incomprehensible to me of him leaving St. Louis, even if it had meant more money and notoriety.&quot;

This could be taken as a slap against Pujols.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Had there been free-agency during Musial’s era, it would have been incomprehensible to me of him leaving St. Louis, even if it had meant more money and notoriety.&#8221;</p>
<p>This could be taken as a slap against Pujols.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: taskmaster4450</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352379</link>
		<dc:creator>taskmaster4450</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You think Piazza was dirty or are you just saying you wouldnt bet against it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You think Piazza was dirty or are you just saying you wouldnt bet against it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Metro12</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352377</link>
		<dc:creator>Metro12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Sosa once said the same thing, but balked when challenged. Thomas would have said, “bring me the cup.’’&lt;/i&gt;

It was also revealed later on that Sosa was on the list of 104 players who came up dirty in the survey testing MLB did for steroids in 2003.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Sosa once said the same thing, but balked when challenged. Thomas would have said, “bring me the cup.’’</i></p>
<p>It was also revealed later on that Sosa was on the list of 104 players who came up dirty in the survey testing MLB did for steroids in 2003.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex68</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352338</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex68</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I spoke to my father about stan musial when he died, he told me, that stan the man was one of the best baseball player he ever saw, had it not been for dimaggio and ted, this man would&#039;ve probably been the best player of that era, not only that, but he was a good man. good citizen and not once heard bad things about the man. 
Regarding frank thomas, one will never know, but i think that him and Ken Griffey JR were about the only 2 players in baseball who didn&#039;t do anything to cheat the game they loved. I could be wrong of course, but those 2 were the only 2 players i&#039;d put my hands on fire for.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spoke to my father about stan musial when he died, he told me, that stan the man was one of the best baseball player he ever saw, had it not been for dimaggio and ted, this man would&#8217;ve probably been the best player of that era, not only that, but he was a good man. good citizen and not once heard bad things about the man.<br />
Regarding frank thomas, one will never know, but i think that him and Ken Griffey JR were about the only 2 players in baseball who didn&#8217;t do anything to cheat the game they loved. I could be wrong of course, but those 2 were the only 2 players i&#8217;d put my hands on fire for.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Metro12</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01/stan-musial-and-frank-thomas-recall-a-cleaner-time.html#comment-352336</link>
		<dc:creator>Metro12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=106221#comment-352336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice article, John.  I didn&#039;t know DiMaggio was such a prick. Wish I could have seen some of the greats like Musial play.

When it comes to steroids, I give every player the benefit of the doubt, unless there is substantive evidence or allegations of first-hand knowledge to the contrary. So Thomas in my book is clean. Hopefully he and others like Piazza will get a fair shake from the HOF voters next winter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article, John.  I didn&#8217;t know DiMaggio was such a prick. Wish I could have seen some of the greats like Musial play.</p>
<p>When it comes to steroids, I give every player the benefit of the doubt, unless there is substantive evidence or allegations of first-hand knowledge to the contrary. So Thomas in my book is clean. Hopefully he and others like Piazza will get a fair shake from the HOF voters next winter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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