Comments on: Morning Grind: “There’s Not A Lot Left On The Shelf”

By: Marco

Marco — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:03:55 +0000

Let’s be honest, Mets fans: the Wilpons and Sandy Anderson have decided that Long Island does not deserve a major league team. The sleazy deceptive and shameless way they have approached this new season is a insult to the base. A boycott opening day will send a powerful message.

By: Metfan Lou

Metfan Lou — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:09:16 +0000

Well as two loyal Met fans we’ll disagree on this one but one question to ponder. Will low attendance be due to poor baseball or a fan boycott. I suspect a little of both but for a boycott to be effective it will have to include a boycott of Mets merchandise too. I just got two new hats for Christmas so that is the end of my purchases even if I wanted something real bad.

By: taskmaster4450

taskmaster4450 — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:47:24 +0000

Tell me how well boycotts work in Miami. Have you seen their attendance? Yet Loria is still there.

How about in Minnesota when Pohlad didnt want to spent money?

And comparing an airline to a passion doesnt work. How many people are loyal to one airline? Sure they have their frequent flier miles but do most care whether it is Delta or American? Not in the least. But baseball. What, are Mets fans going to go watch the Yankees? Phillies? Dbacks? No. Are they going to go without baseball? Not likely either. Are they going to stay home and watch the games? Perhaps but that feeds the same hand.

So no, boycotts will not work when you have a billionaire family with enough assets to outlast any financial downturn. Losing $20M a years, the Wilpons could cover a decade of those loses with one Manhattan building (well maybe two depending upon the size).

So I applaud you and will watch you lead the charge of total boycott of the NYMets. I presume you will have to come on here to get the results since a true boycott means no SNY in addition to Citi Field.

By: K Maxx

K Maxx — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:31:12 +0000

I’ll agree to disagree, because your points are as valid and we simply see this differently. But as far as the short term hit for a better longterm outlook, I’m not sure I agree there either. How long is the short term? It’s already been three years under construction and much work remains to be done, particularly in the outfield. Even if that were to be addressed in the draft, you are still talking about 3-4 years away, and Nimmo has yet to advance past short season ball putting him just as further away. That short term hit is becoming a longterm reality and that concerns me. We are moving at a snail’s pace and the attention to stark organizational needs has been lacking.

By: Alex68

Alex68 — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:23:58 +0000

You know who also hit well in the minors? Butch Huskey and Fred Lewis….

By: DrDooby

DrDooby — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:15:11 +0000

Gose was more likely to help the Jays in 2013 (i.e. an “all in” sort of season) than Syndergaard.
And I have no idea whether the Mets even had the option of Gose instead of Syndergaard without losing D´Arnaud in the package either. One can make a valid case for both Gose & Synd. – and the deal would have been just as fine with Gose in there imho. Still, Gose probably should spend at least another half a season at AAA himself, so he wouldn´t have solved any immediate issues in the Mets OF either.

Again, considering how many solid outfielders are free agents next winter, it doesn´t take much creativity to fill out a potential outfield alright if you´re willing to spend 20 to 30 million $ on it annually in 2014. Payroll restraints won´t be an issue anymore a year from now. Even by signing, say, Cory Hart and Shin Soo Choo to Victorino & Swisher type contracts, next winter, the Mets 2014 payroll still doesn´t crack even 90 million $. Or Hunter Pence & Jacoby Ellsbury or Carlos Gomez and Nelson Cruz for that matter. Or trading for Dexter Fowler and Josh Willingham instead. Lots of possibly ways to adress this. And the focus should shift more towards the shortterm.

By: TX

TX — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:15:05 +0000

In the same year that Posey was drafted, Houston made a stretch pick with the number 10 pick to grab Jason Castro, because they had an organizational need at the C position. Castro was a 4 year college guy who they thought could be rushed up to fill a spot on the major league level. Injuries have hampered him, but he’s proven to be adequate, at best. Maybe he can blossom a little more and be something slightly above average, but considering what else was available at that pick, the stretching for a positional need was not a smart decision, at all.

By: DrDooby

DrDooby — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:09:33 +0000

Arencibia is a league average C who already will be entering his 3rd or 4th season in the majors. D´Arnaud has significantly higher potential and is under control for at least the full 6+ years. It´s obvious that D´Arnaud was the better choice in the Mets´ position as a non-contender in 2013. If you were looking for the Mets to contend in 2013, then Arencibia probably would have been the better choice. In fact, keeping RA Dickey would then have been the right call.

Syndergaard & Gose being ranked close to each other in spite of Gose already having reached the majors shows the potential of Syndergaard. Maybe he can headline a major trade package for a true impact outfielder – better than Gose right now- a year or two from now. Or anchor the Mets rotation by 2016. Or tear his labrum and never be heard of by June, of course.

In any case, rebuilding means that shortterm needs take a back-seat. That´s exactly what has happened this winter. Michael Bourn would certainly help. But he comes with a significant risk & pricetag as well.

By: taskmaster4450

taskmaster4450 — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:05:55 +0000

Which makes them majority stock holders meaning that the other two partners do not have enough votes to push them out.

And the Mets finances are turning around. They lost $23M (or so) last season and have the cash to cover any loss this season (if there is one) because of the debt refinancing. Cash flow was improved by going with a lower interest rate.

Plus in terms of their wealth, all their assets are appreciating in value. Everyone knows SNY is exploding. Manhattan real estate is going upwards as well. With the sale of the Dodgers, all teams increased in value. And, their debt load, with each passing month is being paid down.

So again, like it or not, the Wilpons have more than enough assets to outlive any boycott.

By: Metfan Lou

Metfan Lou — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:00:29 +0000

Disagree. Boycotts do work. When one airline raises fares too much and other airlines don’t follow then that airline backs down. If the Mets continue to spiral downward into a Triple AAA team it affects attendance at other parks. And those owners will be upset at a loss of money. The owners are an old boys club but if you mess with their money they get upset. So what you are saying is that MLB thinks it’s okay to have elite teams like the Braves, Nats and Phillies in the division and then two whipping boys in the Marlins and Mets to get fat on. I don’t think so and when those guys get behind closed doors I bet all hell breaks loose after they belt back a couple of Jack over ice. Do you even think the Mets will be on a game of the week knowing when Buck and McCarver pan Citi Field and only see a few thousand fans that that won’t have an impact? A fan boycott is the only weapon the Mets fans have now.

By: TJ

TJ — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:52:58 +0000

Jon,
Unfortunately, this ownership is going no where, like it or not. They are unquestionably collective billionnaires, even conservative analysts would agree on this. Their remaining problem is that since they ran the team into the group financially in order to weather the Madoff threat to ownership, they need to fix the “brand”, whether they are a long shot in 2013 or not. No one is going to believe anything that this ownership or Alderson says, they need to take actions. By getting a competent CF/leadoff hitter, which looks to be either Bourn at a reasonable price or Crisp at a reasonable price in prospects, plus a legit bullpen arm or two with closing upside (Brian Wilson anyone?), they can at least show the fan base they are trying to assemble a decent 2013 team with a punchers chance. Failure to do that will just continue to alienate an already diminished and disgruntled fan base.

By: DrDooby

DrDooby — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:50:23 +0000

Cowgill & Brown have both hit well at AAA and hit for pretty solid power in their minor league careers. Both have done very well vs. LHP but haven´t had nearly as much success vs. RHP.
Pretty much platoon outfielders.
Hairston & Bay combined for replacement level caliber production in 2012 and will be replaced by two younger players who look like replacement level players.
Scott Hairston – for all his nice HR pop – had a .300 OBP. Jeff Franceour & Rod Barajas also hit for some power but weren´t exactly impact players either because they didn´t get on base.
Again, basically, Cowgill & Brown will have to combine for the very modest combined “production” of Bay & Hairston of 2012 to keep the mediocre status quo.

I like the two additions because there´s some upside that both might do better than expected. However, neither of the two should and in all likelihood will ever be a starting outfielder for a team that wants to contend. So, at best, we´re talking about possibly finding a platoon partner for Nieuwenhuis / Duda / Valdespin / Baxter / Den Dekker going foward.

By: Jon

Jon — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:48:46 +0000

They don’t own the whole thing – only 60 percent . Given their lack of cashflow, huge obligations to banks and dwindling team they may have to tap SNY more. They already are to get the extra financing. Without lord Bud watching out for them and “baseballs best interest ” they could get squeezed very easily.

By: TRS86

TRS86 — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:48:39 +0000

Very true, it remains to be seen if they made it any better but chances are statistically it can’t be much worse.

By: K Maxx

K Maxx — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:48:14 +0000

Understood, but this isn’t the draft, it was a trade whose goal was to improve the team. Maybe Arencibia and Gose was the way to go. Both players are already in the majors and you fill two glaring needs for the 2013 team and beyond in exchange for our reigning Cy Young. Two prospects like all prospects are risks. We gave up Dickey for a caouple of lottery tickets. A little more certainty would have been better.

Obviously, no foresight was prevalent on Sandy’s part otherwise he would know the outfield market will be even drier than this Winter’s a year from now.

Additionally Gose and Syndergaard are practically ranked interchangeably depending on who you go to, and of the two one is in the majors and the other is in Single-A and still far from a sure thing..

By: Jon

Jon — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:44:19 +0000

Dr Dooby – disagree . Gose is only 22. It wouldn’t be need but a better option and he may project higher than the pitcher we got anyway.
That said, Toronto wanted to keep him anyway and ended up keeping their best pitching prospect as well. Good trade for both teams

By: ifthevansrockin

ifthevansrockin — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:43:09 +0000

how exactly are they going to push them out of something they own?

By: ifthevansrockin

ifthevansrockin — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:42:21 +0000

absolutely. Once they got the debt under control, they can go into bare minimum mode. Pretty much how the Pirates, Marlins, etc. stayed in (profitable) business all these years with minimal attendance.

By: Jon

Jon — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:38:17 +0000

They are not billionaires and would not be surprising once Selig is gone that their SNY partners either Time Warner or Comcast push them out of SNY thus cutting off that important income srream. It would hinder their ability to retain the team. Thus anew ownership group would be brought in.

By: Justin

Justin — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:37:46 +0000

How is this OF any worse then what they had last year with Bay-Torres-Duda? now they can give some young guys time to see what they have…

gotta remember, they arent competing this year so why waste money on veterans that will be in decline when the Mets get good….ok, IF the Mets get good