MMO Short Shots: Snubbings, Drubbings, And Aaron Sele

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• srt January 10, 2013 at 10:54 am

  ‘When Canseco blew the lid over the rampant use of roids the writers felt like fools for not seeing it sooner. They looked complicit in the eyes of some fans and they were just duped like the rest of us average fans were.’

  I’m having a hard time believing these writers were duped ‘like the rest of us average fans’. They were in the locker rooms, before games and after. They were privy to off the record conversations. I just can’t believe that many of them did not know – and turned a blind eye just like Selig and the rest did. If the commissioner’s office wasn’t going to address it, they probably figured they weren’t going to be the first to blow the lid on that either.
  • Joe D January 10, 2013 at 10:57 am

    If you heard or read any of the court transcripts, the injections were mostly being done in theer hotel rooms or home, Palmeiro, Tejada, Clemens, Sheffield, Pettitte, Bonds. They weren’t walking around the clubhouse with syringes in their hands. What they did see was teams like the Oakland A’s and Texas Rangers building these state of the art weight training facilities and other teams followed suit.
    • srt January 10, 2013 at 11:20 am

      IDK, Joe. While I have no reason to doubt what you’re saying, I still believe it was just a little more known throughout the clubhouse than you seem to imply.
      • P. Grant January 10, 2013 at 11:23 am

        Especially in Sandy Alderson’s clubhouse where two dozen of them eventually failed tests, were named in the Mitchell reports, or were ratted out. By the way, did Sandy ever apologize for turning a blind eye? I know it was a huge issue when it was announced he had been hired.
        • srt January 10, 2013 at 12:03 pm

          I have no clue. Probably b/c I’m not as outraged by this whole steroid era issue as some others are.
          More than not did it, we’ll never know who all did. Trying to use one’s moral compass to ‘guess’ as some of these voters did is just plain dumb, IMO.
    • Kay January 10, 2013 at 11:28 am

      Did you read in RA’s book that when he was in Texas, he was in a bathroom stall and found a syringe on the floor?
      • srt January 10, 2013 at 12:04 pm

        I remember that passage in the book. RA said he had no idea what that needle was for, but he included that for a reason, I’m thinking.
    • Todd January 10, 2013 at 2:27 pm

      I saw the Oakland A’s weight room in “Moneyball” and it did not look state of the art.
  • TRS86 January 10, 2013 at 11:03 am

    I am sorry, but I was still a young man and I was never duped. Did we seriously think that those guys just ballooned up to their own hard work and started putting up numbers that Ruth would long for?

    We knew, we didn’t care, we were just as attracted to the story as they were. Biggest thing, baseball is entertainment. Were you entertained during that time-period?
    • Joe D January 10, 2013 at 11:12 am

      Go look at the 1962 Mets team photo and the 2012 Mets team photo and tell me what you see. Did they have strength and conditioning coaches as they did beginning in the Roiding Nineties? Did they have team nutritionists as they do now? Did they have state of the art weight training facilities with hundreds of thousands in sophisticated equipment? The game changed. Baseball players are among the most athletic specimens of human beings in the world. That was not the case from 1890-1990.
      • TX January 10, 2013 at 11:20 am

        Anyone who saw Rick Rueschel pitch can confirm that. Mr. Potbelly himself.
        • JetsMets13 January 10, 2013 at 11:31 am

          LOL He would definitely be on the All Potbelly Lineup. Also throw in Incaviglia, Mo Vaughn, CC, the Krukster. I’m sure we have enough to make an entire team.
      • srt January 10, 2013 at 11:26 am

        Keith talks about this often in the booth. Said in his particular case, he’d ‘relax’ (as he chuckles), in the off season and use ST to get in shape. He also said he believes the reason for the increased hamstring and oblique injuries is the young men of today are overly using weights, when they should be concentrating on flexibility and staying in shape.
      • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:36 am

        Sorry Joe, but I knew it at the time and so did 99% of the game and the reporters.
        • Joe D January 10, 2013 at 11:44 am

          99% of fans knew? Did Mrs. Roger Maris and his family know too while Mac was smashing Roger’s record? Maybe I’ll do a poll because all I know is that fans seemed blind to it back then. And even after Canseco book came out, I saw almost ever Met blogger blast him for what they said was a book of lies. I think I’ll put up a poll and see some numbers from our readers on that. It’s so easy to say “I knew” now.
          • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:47 am

            “did 99% of the game and the reporters”

            I am not sure if 99% of the fans knew, I would suppose it was 50% or so. I am talking about GM’s, Managers, coaches, players, reporters, etc….
            • Joe D January 10, 2013 at 11:52 am

              Oh I see, 98% of reporters and team officials, not fans. Okay. Still I spoke to six of them in last 48 hours, and they are pissed because they all assumed it was part of this focus on weight training. They are not athletes, they are writers. You may think they all have trained eyes that can identify ripped abs as use of steroids, but then why are you upset they didnt elect Bagwell, Piazza, etc for using those trained eyes? You have to choose a side. Do you applaud them for punishing them using the eye test?
              • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:56 am

                No I am saying they knew. There is no doubt in my mind that they suspected something. Baseball and the media got rich during this time and now it’s wrong for them to be the ones holding the players accountable now when I think they new then but it didn’t serve their purpose then.
                • Joe D January 10, 2013 at 11:58 am

                  Please explain how the writers got rich? Please tell me how lets say John Delcos got rich?
                  • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 12:00 pm

                    Joe my point is during that time many of these guys made a name for themselves as writters based on the popularity that baseball achieved during that time based on the success of the roid users and covering them.
                  • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 12:03 pm

                    Similar to my point was LoDuca’s comment:
                    “take a vote of which owners were complaining during that era. NONE”
                  • Donal January 10, 2013 at 2:30 pm

                    You don’t think any of the writers profited off of it? You don’t remember the grand old circle jerk of the summer of 1998? You don’t think they made any money selling these stories?

                    All the stories of McGwire and Sosa’s friendship? Of what a great dad Big Mac was and how much he did for kids blah blah blah?

                    you don’t think some guys bought nicer cars because more people wanted to read/hear/talk about baseball during that time?
                  • ifthevansrockin January 10, 2013 at 2:46 pm

                    It’s not just money, but also access (and I guess keeping your job qualifies as money!)

                    Writers likely knew that if they crossed the line in the sand, they would be cut off from the player (effectively ostracized), putting their jobs at risk. how long can a writer survive with no access to the key guys?

                    so like Real said, a lot of them probably “knew” at some point, but for whatever reason (including iron clad proof) they weren’t going to be the one going for the nuclear option and blowing the lid off.
                  • srt January 10, 2013 at 2:49 pm

                    ‘Writers likely knew that if they crossed the line in the sand, they would be cut off from the player (effectively ostracized), putting their jobs at risk’

                    Yup, my opinion as well. I believe the majority of the media that did know what was going on knew it would probably cost them their job if they blew the lid off it. Especially since they probably also all knew the commissioner’s office knew about it and they were turning a blind eye.
          • Alex68 January 10, 2013 at 11:51 am

            TRS, you’re a straight up LIAR!!! You knew???? You’re comical as hell… When i saw most of this guys hitting HR left and right you know what i did? Like everyone else i watch and enjoyed it!! You’re a liar and it’s amazing you have the audacity to lie in front of EVERYONE here in the blog, my god bro, you’re ego needs some check up dude.. First it was the desert having more success the MB now is that you knew about players using steroids?? Lmao, you are something else man…
            • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:57 am

              Where did I say TRDM has more success than MB or MMO? We know our place, perhaps you should.

              As to if I am lying or not, perhaps you can travel back in time to when I was watching and ask me then. Otherwise, I stand by my statement.

              You are proving my point though, baseball is about entertainment. Were you entertained?
          • TX January 10, 2013 at 11:52 am

            I think if the question was brought up, then yeah, people could put 2 and 2 together. But people didn’t want to know. Most slapped the blinders on and enjoyed the show. Then, when the “sanctity” of the HOF, Bonds being a DB, Caminitti dying, Jose being down on his luck and selling out everyone, the good feeling was gone and people started pointing fingers and getting all self righteous.
            • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:58 am

              “But people didn’t want to know. Most slapped the blinders on and enjoyed the show.”
              • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:58 am

                It’s all about entertainment.
• TX January 10, 2013 at 10:58 am

  “In case you weren’t sure, Metsie “does” have an agenda…

  Well lets be clear Joey…I DO have an agenda…To argue against those that have an AGENDA!”

  classic. and involves at least one exclamation point!
• Seligman January 10, 2013 at 11:20 am

  Point very well made. Murphy was certainly a casualty of the steroids era and he’s not the only one. It’s a good thing Mike Schmidt and Paul Molitor got in when they did. If they were on the ballot today they too might be on the outside looking in right now.
  • P. Grant January 10, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Molitor probably dont make it, but Schmidty could have made it in even with these idiots the BBWAA have now.
• Donal January 10, 2013 at 1:20 pm

  I agree that Murphy should been in the Hall of Fame. It makes no sense. Most of the people with ballots are old enough to have been covering when he was a shoe in. How can they be desensitized to his production? If they really wanted to “send a message” to the PED users, they would have put Murphy in.

  I disagree with the idea that the reporters didn’t know about the doping. Lenny Dykstra came to camp one year jacked as hell. When the press asked what he did, he claimed he was taking “good vitamins” with a grin and they all laughed. they all knew.
  • ifthevansrockin January 10, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    well, in theory, shouldn’t WAR if properly applied help make the case for Murphy?

    I posted in some thread the other day that IMO the hall voting should not just be based on numbers. Rather, it should be for guys that were the stars of their time, and obviously the best of the best when they played.

    which I think is a totally subjective way of rating the WAR of a player!

    and by that criteria, Murphy should be in.
    • William H. January 10, 2013 at 2:56 pm

      I like the way the Football HOF used to do it where everything was displayed by decades including those enshrined. It was like each area was like walking into a time capsule with the stars and images of each era.
    • Donal January 10, 2013 at 3:20 pm

      ” Rather, it should be for guys that were the stars of their time, and obviously the best of the best when they played.”

      If you mean if they were standouts among their contemporaries, I totally agree. But, you can still use numbers to do that.
• ifthevansrockin January 10, 2013 at 2:48 pm

  good to know that metsie finally admitted that he really does just argue with himself.
  • Metsie January 10, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Yep because nothing pisses me off more than someone who cheers for Sandy at the expense of the team!

    When Sandy leaves I will go back to my usual as all of you Sandy fans will likely follow him and I’ll get my Summer Baseball back!