“Blessed are the peace makers”.

All the Owners did was let them ruin thier own lives/legacy and made all the effort they should have by proposing to conduct testing which was flatly refused.

The owner had NO obligation or interests to even go that far….
But they did!

They sure did more than any other employer in the world would have done….
The rest of the world would have just fired you without cause and left you to your own demise…

That option wasn’t available to owners since the contracts were guaranteed and binding…
So they did the second best thing, gave the players the opportunity to clean themselves of the cheater and they firmly refused!

And thier refusal cost them everything…Long Careers, a Record Book, a Believeable Hall of Fame and long term health!

I don’t see why Owners should be forced to lose Million (Billions?) to solve a problem they did NOT create and TRIED to solve but whose offer was flatly refused and fought tooth and nail!

They did more than any other employer would have and thats to be appluaded no blamed as inadequate because there was no other option that was MORE adequate available.

I know the Rich are pariahs in this country these days but without them you know what we are?

HAITI! Poorest country on the planet!

And who do we rape to pay all our government spending if we take the position that rich people should lose thier shirt to do things we aren’t prepared or willing to do or solve for ourselves?
It was the players problem and the Owners did what they could to help them solve it…
They didn’t want to they WANTED to keep on cheating!

You hit upon why the outrage toward the owners:

“a moral stand that wouldn’t have worked which is like flushing money down the toilet to fell better about yourself….”

Yup “flushing mone down the toilet” was what the owners did not want to do. I think we all agree on that.

Metsie, that was the only point I wanted to make – as long as it was not themselves doing the juicing they didn’t care at all as long as the money came in and nobody was complaining. It’s just a characteristic that is very important to me as a principle and one I would not want children to emmuliate

You wanted them to lose Millions to take a moral stand that wouldn’t have worked which is like flushing money down the toilet to fell better about yourself….

They made MORE than a half hearted attempt…They held up a collective bargaining agreement in hopes of getting testing….

Did the players make a half hearted attempt to stop it?

No they made a FULL COURT PRESS to keep the cheating going!

I’m not talking about the legal restrictions of what MLB could not have done but simple, attempts they could have iniated to show a personal concern on the matter. Did they need the player’s union to take even a small step like a half-hearted attempt at having a drug counselor talk to the teams in private meetings? Of course, as said, something as simple as that or the equivalent would accomplish zilch but at least it would have shown they were aware of their moral responsibilites as human beings.

All I’m pointing out is that there was a moral question to be addressed – not about the integrity of the competition, performances and records – but of health and drug abuse – and the owners did not really care enough to try and do something just as human beings.

Just like Vince McMahon and his wrestlers.

Cause basically what Selig and the other people who testified said is “We don’t condone it, We admit it may be happening but we have no way of testing because the Union refuses to allow it and if we insist there is no baseball and we lose too much money because we have bills to pay that won’t get paid unless there is baseball to pay for it.”

Could they have done more? Yep but not as much as others could have either…

If the press had done it’s job and told what they KNEW much more than any Owner did then the players may have caved under the pressure….

The only reason why they caved on things like HGH now is because they could see where things were going with guys like Bonds and McGwire and knew if they didn’t find some way of PROVING they were clean they had no chance at the hall at all!

Thats the ONLY reason why we have testing at all and the only reason why HGH is FINALLY being tested for this year….

Cause if they didn’t they could STILL be denied thier legacy by people doing what they did to piazza and say Well I heard he did HGH….

No VOTE!

Think you are missing the point I was making.

Of course, short of having the legal action on their side there was nothing they could do to really stop it. As I said, though one would have to be naive to believe any such behavior as I suggested would have accomplished anything, however, I think it would have looked better for Sandy (or Selig or any other owner) to have said before that Committee:

“I asked Canseco, he said no, I had my suspicions and was concerned about others so I arranged for medical experts at time to time to address the team privately about the risks and dangers in closed door meetings – no executives, no managers, no coaches – just the players themselves. As one who saw another Oakland athlete – Lyle Alzaio – lose his life to steroids it was on my mind a lot to do what I could within my power. There was nothing else I could do because it wasn’t banned from baseball at the time.”

When it comes to big business we know even that type of behavior doesn’t even enter the picture though they have no problem trying expressing their disappointment.

Another example is Tony LaRussa, who knew absolutely nothing and was shocked when hearing that disclosure (sic). And MLB or whoever goes out of the way to praise him last summer for the work he did as part of a trio of Cardinal managers? Does the hypocrisy ever stop?

PLEASE either you or Matt say what they could have done…
Could they test to stop players from using? NO!
They barely have testing now and only this year will actually be able to suspend someone for HGH…

Perhaps they were supposed to hire someone to follow each player around even into thier house and bedroom (where Clemons got juiced) and test every substance that came within 5 feet of thier body?

Is that or something like it the MEASURES you and Matt propose they SHOULD have done and because they didn’t are to BLAME?

Be realistic here….
If I knew you were snorting an ounce of coke an hour and I was concerned about you hanging around my kids there is nothing I could do to stop you, or expose you…Even if I called the cops they could not get a search warrant based on my testimony that I say you did drugs.

So there was nothing the Owners could do to stop the practice and since there was no course of action they looked the other way instead and took the money because they needed it to pay the players who had inflated stats thanks to their use of PEDS.

There were many small moves they could have at least attempted to show they were sincere which we have not heard a peep on which I think executives would try to exploit to show MLB made an attempt – even a half-hearted one -to address the situation instead of exploiting it for them own selves. Team sessions with the mangers, coaches and players with an expert addressing them on the dangers of taking such drugs would have at least looked good in the press. Not just on the major league level but heavily in the minor league chain. And for the parent club hitting them hard with how it could counter-effect the Derek Jeters and their “just say no” commercials with the youth.

No, saying there was nothing they could about it because it was not a banned substance in baseball is nothing more than hiding behind a set of bylaws. Again, if they had taken some small steps to urge players to stop it – even just with the suggestions which I don’t think anyone would be naive enough to think would have any impact – the owners could have covered their own rear-ends in this matter.

And to this day they can’t even take a blood sample from you without your permission nor can they do any chemical analysis of any bodily fluid without a warrant. And you don’t get a Warrant to search some guy because he hit 40 HRs last year it just doesn’t happen.

So no the Owners could not have called the feds, given any proof that would constitute REASONABLE CAUSE nor could they steal samples to test from thier players to get it.

And thats because of the UNION made up of PLAYERS not because the Owners failed to act they were prohibited from acting because they had ZERO RECOURSE to act!

What your suggesting here is that YOU should be held accountable for not outing the guy and commander of your unit for using…..
Is this really how you propose to solve the problem?
Prosecute the Witness who couldn’t stop the use and not the Perpetrator who used?

Say I own a factory that makes widgets and I find out there’s rampant abuse of cocain among 2nd and 3rd shifters pulling overtime and double overtime, and say that while my productivity is skyrocketing I’ve got guys losing hands on the widget conveyor belt (but the workers don’t care because they love the overtime pay & are willing to take their chances), Do I bring in the cops and bust the cocain ring even though it means I lose money and good workers? Yes, Why? Because I don’t want to explain to someone’s parents why I allowed their kid to lose a hand working a third consecutive shift on cocain. It’s all about prior knowledge and it’s clear the owners knew. I think there was a Taxi episode about this exact thing where Bobby was using speed and he became Louie’s favorite driver because he was working all these back to back shifts but eventually he crashed his cab.

The key point here is even if there WAS an owner who wanted it stopped he could not stop it at all.

Because he couldn’t test anyone to see if they were using. So they couldn’t stop it even if they wanted to. and what do you do when there is nothing you can do? Look the other way….

It’s about as rediculous as saying a guy comes to work on speed and because he works faster than everyone else the Owner is at fault for paying people based on how much they get done and as a result it forces everyone else into doing speed to keep up with what some drug user got paid.

Could the owners have weeded out the Users at the time?
NOPE!
And you can’t fire or suspend someone let alobe VOID a contract without proof and based solely on suspicion.

EVen if the MLB tested with all the tests they USED last year MCGwire still would not have faced any penalty or tested positive because what HE used was not allowed to be tested for until this UPCOMING season.

The PLAYERS forced those kids in the Minors to use because guys who should NOT have stayed in the MLB did stay due to thier use of an illegal substance….

ANY VICTIM you can point to was VICTIMIZED by the players that used not the owners.

All the owners are guilty of is shelling out money based on performance and they could tell what performance was real or false because they COULD NOT TEST even if they wanted to!

Now put the shoe on your foot…..

Someone comes into where you work and smokes pot…Causes an accident…
Should your boss fire you for smoking Pot without a test to prove you did? Merely because someone says He Smokes too!
You ready to pee on a stick and let them test for drugs, alcohol and maybe fire you?

Say your the boss in that scenario…A Guy gets drunk and kills someone at your workplace…
He’s forgiven but your prosecuted for not enforcing a safe enviornment because HIS UNION refused to allow testing of it’s memebers…

That fair?

Well they commited the crime without any pushing or encouragement fom ANYONE but themselves and thier Agent….

They DESERVE the focus way more than any other person whose BIGGEST crime is not saying something and looking the other way!

Perhaps it appears as I am blaming the owners more right now but that is only in reaction to the current focus being mostly on the players. I found the public statement made by Selig, avoiding the subject all together came across as thinking we were stupid. And the sports writers are only now getting their share of criticism for keeping such a story under wraps.

I bet if the public wasn’t so upset, we’d see Bonds, McGwire, Clemens and others already in the Hall and the politicians just going on with their other BS. And more important, teenage athletes would be juicing themselves up even more than they do already – thanks today to the Braun’s of the world.

To me, it really doesn’t matter who, what or when – they were all in on it and they all share the blame. Isn’t that what matters?

You want to blame the guy who failed to call the cops more than the guy who robbed the bank?

I mean really there is no ACTION they would need to take if the crime had not been committed at all!
Just because they were slow to react to bad behavior doesn’t make them more to blame than those who DID the bad things….

Owners are no more at fault than the Press who KNEW it was being done (not all owners knew as quickly as the press did).

So on the blame scale the owners don’t even make second place in my book.

it goes
PLAYERS
PRESS
OWNERS
and then us Fans who fell for the performance and didn’t care until we realized they were going to be banned and the record book we love to cite and HOF we love to gush over was in jeopardy.