Mets Willing To Pay Most Of Santana’s Salary To Move Him

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• taskmaster10 January 6, 2013 at 10:36 am

  This doesnt make a lot of sense to me. Why would the Mets want to move Santana now considering the position things are? To start, his stock is very low. If he pitches decently in the first half, he will have more value to a contending team. Also, the Mets depth in pitching is at the lower levels therefore Santana isnt holding up a spot to be used for someone else. The Mets presently need another starter since they only really have four with Santana. Finally, even if they do move him, what they get back isnt going to be great and with the off season steaming to a close, what are the Mets going to do? Is money really the problem at this point in working trades? Actually, I think the lack of valuable trade chips is a bigger hindrance. Is unloading Santana going to change the fact that AZ still wants Niese in a trade for Upton?

  I think the team is better off holding him and see if he can pitch reasonably well. By about the AS break, that $31M will be halved anyway.
  • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Santana will be paid 20 mil this year, not 31, 20 mil will be counted against 2013′s payroll.

    5.5 mil is deferred salary paid in 7 years
    5.5 is a buyout that may or may not be activated depending on several factors

    saying Santana is being paid 31 mil pitcher is an absolute bold faced lie

    at MOST he is a 25 mil pitcher

    at least he is a 20.5 mil pitcher..

    and if the mets trade him in June/July and the other team picks up his salary, he would only have been paid 10 mil this season…not 31 …

    the bag of BS Sandy sells u folks is mind-boggling

    what strikes me as odd…is that Sandy never mentions the 12 players the mets are paying in salary from as far back as 1995 ( Saberhagen ) to Beltran.

    o wait…it was revealed that deferring salary was part of the Madoff plan…those compensation packages were actually making money for the wilpons….now that they have to pay back all those guys…without the high rate of Madoff’s returns…its better to call Santana a 31 mil pitcher than talk about the 40-50 mil they owe all those guys

    Sandy should change his title from GM to car salesman
    • Sloatsburg Mets Fan January 6, 2013 at 2:15 pm

      Just,

      Did I miss something but where in the article did it say Sandy Alderson said Santana is owed $31 million? Are you just purging some unused venom for Sandy?

      All bs aside, this is nuts. I want Santana back ESPECIALLY with RA gone. Other than us playing way over our heads and making the post season, having Johan healthy and pitching well (at least up to the trade deadline) is what we need to root for, IMO.

      Question (for everyone including you Just) and I doubt anyone could honestly answer this but here it goes. I know that deferring payment is a common practice in most businesses but do the Mets lead all of baseball in employing this practice?
      • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:47 pm

        http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/10/6537785/sandy-alderson-moneyball-playing-loop

        Sandy at the time counted Bay + Santana’s 2014 buyouts against the 2013 payroll….a practice rarely if ever practiced by teams, they usually count the 2014 buyout…against the 2014 payroll……and he said they would count as 50 mil against the payroll…

        Your boy is a used car salesman
    • ifthevansrockin January 6, 2013 at 2:18 pm

      how did you turn this on Sandy, since it was Cardafo and Joe that said he was eating up 31mill this year?
      • Just-Da-Damaja January 7, 2013 at 8:43 am

        http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/10/6537785/sandy-alderson-moneyball-playing-loop

        Sandy at the time counted Bay + Santana’s 2014 buyouts against the 2013 payroll….a practice rarely if ever practiced by teams, they usually count the 2014 buyout…against the 2014 payroll……and he said they would count as 50 mil against the payroll…

        Your boy is a used car salesman
      • Joe D January 7, 2013 at 8:46 am

        I only went by what Sandy Alderson said on a conference call, and in a press conference in Nashville. You may want to ask him why he said $31MM. In fact I wish I could have used a lower number if only to illustrate that payroll may be under $80 million for the first time in almost two decades.
  • Chicago Days January 6, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Not sure how i feel about this. Trading Santana before the Season further weakens the rotation unless we replace his slot with a solid F/A or trade (unlikely) and probably makes us a 65 – 70 win team. Waiting to trade him by the 7/31 deadline risks an injury from this oft-hurt aging pitcher.
    IF we could sign Marcum and Hairston and/or trade for a solid OF prospect or player (Eaton, Ott, Marisnick, Gomez, Parra), then i’d favor such a move.
  • srt January 6, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Agree.
  • Frankie Says January 6, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Some of you just want the Mets doomed to repeat history.

    How can you even imagine that Santana will be healthy by the deadline?

    What if he’s sitting on the DL like Reyes was? Then you have a $31 million dollar paperweight.
    • taskmaster4450 January 6, 2013 at 12:21 pm

      Is he much more than that right now? That is the big question.

      If he is only worth a box of baseball at this moment, then what does the team have to lose holding onto him? It isnt as if he finished the year on a high note….he finished it on the DL.
      • Frankie Says January 6, 2013 at 12:38 pm

        Because we can free up $15 million now. In case you haven’t noticed we have not addressed the outfield or bullpen. heck we haven’t even signed any player to the 25. If trading Santana can give Sandy dollars to spend and upgrade, it’s a plus for 2013 and maybe 1014 and 2015 as well. Why risk hanging onto one the most injury prone players in the history of the Mets? If you can get a useful part now, plus whatever the $15 million can get us, why would you not do it? On a whim that he’ll be healthy at the break? No thanks. He hasn’t been in three of last four seasons.
        • Russell's Mets January 6, 2013 at 3:38 pm

          @ Frankie, Sorry to break it to you, but freeing up an additional $15 million means nothing. All it means is the Mets owners save $15 million this year. Santana is pretty much off the books after 2013 so talking about freeing up “extra” cash for 2014 and 2015 is pointless, they will already have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball after Buck, Santana, and Francisco are off the books at the end of 2013.

          Currently the Mets payroll is about 70- 75 million for the 25 man roster (when you consider Wright deferring $3 mil and Bay deferring $15 mil from this year’s salary ) as it is built now, And so they already have 15-20 million to spend but have not spent it. Adding an additional 15 million by trading Santana will just mean they have 30-35 million to spend, but the reality is they wont spend that money because of the financial mess.
          • Metsie January 6, 2013 at 4:00 pm

            Your correct Russel they are unlikely to spend it this year…
            As I said elsewhere I think Sandy is tired of the media and fans second guessing and looking for the quickest way out and by getting Santana’s money off the books this year he has a much better shot at turning a profit despite the loss of Attendance that will result from the Dickey trade and leave on the notion that he accomplished his mission, made the team profitable for the first time since he got here and go take his desk chair in Selig’s old office.

            Sandy finally realized what Phillips already knew….
            NYC will not sit through another rebuild…They sat through 3 or 4, already and they have never kept thier promise of long term competitive baseball and at best have been one and done or terribly missed the mark (as the best team money could buy did).

            New York is like a country of it’s own, I travel all over the country and the one thing that sticks out is just how laid back and patient the rest of the country is with the exception of LA and NY.
            We want TOP QUALITY, ALL the time and if we don’t get it we have lots of other things to do to pass the time instead.

            Sandy is starting to see that he will never get to the end of whatever this PLAN he has is, and is settling for the modest goal of turning the team profitable and calling it a success.
            Then rebuilding is someone else’s problem and we had better hope it’s not DePo’s problem because he has never been able to rebuild anything in his career.

            The A’s were all about Beane not DePo….
    • Tommy2cat January 7, 2013 at 5:18 am

      That’s a good point, but its kind of a crap shoot. Johan was one of the best pitchers in the NL up to his no-hitter. He had a couple of strong performances after that gem, but he was clearly compromised as he lost his velocity and his change-up became less effective. Shutting him down was the smartest decision at that time.

      So, enter 2013. A healthy Johan would be great to anchor this staff, at least throughout the first half of the year until Zach Wheeler joins the rotation. A healthy Johan also would carry trade value toward the trading deadline.

      On the other hand, trading Johan at this time could be addition by subtraction, and allow the front office to acquire, say, an outfielder – even if its just Scott Hairson. If the Mets trade Johan prior to the season, I’d really like to see them acquire Chris Capuano from the Dodgers. Cappy pitched one of the best games ever in a NY Met uniform when he shut down the Braves in a 13K, 2-hit performance.

      I’m in favor of keeping Johan to start the season because we need an ace, even if he’s just a figurehead, while the younger guys in our rotation establish their own identity.
• Mark January 6, 2013 at 10:49 am

  I don’t think it is a terrible idea being that we are becoming a younger team and Santana is the odd man out. If we can get back some OF’ers why not?
• 86mets January 6, 2013 at 11:02 am

  On one hand it sounds like good business. Why wouldn’t you want to rid yourself of that kind of salary? However, this would just be another example of front office lies to the fans. Remember, we’re not “punting” on 2013! My issue is that, for the 1st time in my life, the Mets are hosting the All Star game and in their beautiful new park. Yet, the team that will be on the field will likely only have one All Star rep – David Wright. Meanwhile, our division rivals could all have multiple reps- Jason Hayward, Craig Kimbrell, Brian McCann, Cole Hamels, Cliff Lee, Bryce Harper, Stephen Strausberg, Gio Gonzalez, etc. I am not saying we should be spending just to have a bunch of All Stars but it’s a bit embarrassing to host the All Star game and only have one player representing the home team. How much more so if Harper or Heyward hits a walk off to win the game on our turf? Ok, back on topic….moving Santana does make some sense but don’t underestimate his value to teaching the youngsters, like Harvey & later Wheeler how to pitch at this level. His presence in Minnesota was a big factor in Francisco Lirianos success before he got hurt. In other words, I wouldn’t move him solely to free money. Would be akin to robbing Peter to pay Paul
  • Metfan Lou January 6, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    If Ike Davis stays healthy I think he’ll be on the All Star team and I also believe one of our strting pitchers will be in the line-up too. They have that kind of potential.
• Dan from Whitestone January 6, 2013 at 11:14 am

  This would make perfect sense considering we can parlay him into useful pieces with the savings. If we can get even a bullpen arm in exchange it’s a win. Knowing Santana’s injury history, why risk waiting till the deadline.
• Petey January 6, 2013 at 11:22 am

  There is one part of the article that you got wrong. I fixed it for you:

  “The team owes $31 million anyway, so if you could pay $15 million to get rid of him, and pocket the remaining $15 million, why not?”
  • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    ^^^^^^
    THIS!!!!!!

    LMAO!!! Exactly
• Wendy January 6, 2013 at 11:30 am

  Great idea he is not worth the distraction and salary
  • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:37 am

    yup…santana sure distracted you with that no-hitter !

    when he is gone, u can focus ALL your attention on Mr. Dimples !
    • Boomer January 6, 2013 at 11:47 am

      Well that didn’t take long. I was wondering how long it would take you to make a Wright tie in.

      You’ve got some issues.
      • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 12:42 pm

        Boomer,

        I think JDD brings up Wright in comparison to show/HIGHLIGHT the double standard with some Mets fans. Whom are more Wright fans than they are Mets fans I dont think he has anything against Wright at all just the perception of him compared to others.

        Some like to say JDD is a Wright hater(I no he doesnt hate Wright),but overlook the point he is making due to their blind Love of Wright.
        • Boomer January 6, 2013 at 1:05 pm

          It gets a little hard to take that seriously when every single thread he finds a way to tie into a slam of Wright. I don’t see anyone here going off on every thread over their undying devotion to Wright so I don’t think the comparison is fair.

          It’s kind of silly to not admit that as much as some of us may love the game professional baseball is part of the entertainment business, a very big part. Wright has had a very solid career, all with the Mets and looks to be one of the top 3rd basemen in the game for at least the next 4 – 5 years. And yes, he is very marketable.

          Best case, Santana is going to be here 1 more season, most likely case is he is traded at the deadline to a contender looking for an extra arm for a playoff push. Who doesn’t know this? So why wouldn’t the Mets, a team looking to fill a bunch of holes, see what value Santana has in the market right now?

          It’s not a conspiracy and its nothing nefarious. One way or another Santana is walking out of here as one of the best compensated Mets of all time. Business is business.
          • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 1:14 pm

            “I don’t see anyone here going off on every thread over their undying devotion to Wright so I don’t think the comparison is fair.”

            –Then your eyes are closed

            He wasnt responding to the fact that Santana should be traded to improve the team. He responded to Santana should be traded because he is a DISTRACTION!!!

            Santana was never a distraction the only issues he’s had hear was injuries…Which he has soldiered and played through when able to.

            And yes at some point when Johan builds up his value they should try to move him for prospects mid season. But not for a useless Herrera-type, I’d rather Santana play out his contract if those are the only options
            • Boomer January 6, 2013 at 1:39 pm

              Ok, I’ll keep my eyes open. Why don’t you help me by pointing out in every thread where someone goes off on their undying love for Wright.

              Thanks.
              • Lol January 6, 2013 at 1:50 pm

                Nobody ever does that. Ever
              • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:52 pm

                LOL

                So exactly how is Johan Santana a distraction?

                lets zoom in on that…
    • Frankie Says January 6, 2013 at 11:53 am

      Wendy is right. He is NOT worth the money. And he will be a distraction like all players in their walk years. What dont you understand about that?
      • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 12:51 pm

        “Wendy is right. He is NOT worth the money. And he will be a distraction like all players in their walk years. What dont you understand about that?”

        Wendy is wrong.

        1. Whether the Mets trade him or not he will cost them a lot of money.
        2. How will he be a distraction in his walk year? He(Johan) and everyone else(Mets & Fans) KNOW the Mets will not re-sign him no matter what. So there is no distraction, if anything he will given his best effort (which he has throughout his whole career) since he will be playing for his next contract.

        Prime example: Carlos Beltran!!! He wasnt a distraction in his contract year because we knew he was gone at the end of the season no matter what.

        Now, What dont you understand?
      • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:54 pm

        LMAO

        You mean like Reyes was when he won the batting title?

        You mean like Beltran was, when he was the MVP of our team in 2011 ?

        You mean like Albert Pujols was when the Cardinals won the WS?

        You mean like Angel Pagan was when the Giants won the WS?

        Sweet Jesus, you are on a southern bible belt Sarah Palin poster rockin level of dumb today…
    • Joe January 6, 2013 at 6:03 pm

      Actually the Mets did have a no-hitter in 2012 but it wasnt Santanas performance. Anyone who watches that game with an “impartial” view knows that that ball Beltran hit down the line was a fair ball.
      The no-hitter was pitched in Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg by Dickey a couple of weeks later. The scoring official at the Trop screwed Dickey & the Mets by calling that error Wright comitted off of Upton’s bat into “a hit”.
      • Joey D. January 6, 2013 at 7:46 pm

        Hi Joe,

        You know the Mets aren’t helping their cause with the fan base by airing that one-hit performance on SNY – along with Pagan’s Pepsi Porch game winning home run from 2011. Both serve as only reminders (and angry ones for many) of those we sent off.

        SNY has since stopped airing the tribute to R.A. The least they publicize these players, the better it will be for their sake image wise.

        BTW – anyone watching either of those games will recall the intensity of the players, their self-confidence in not giving up, the way they executed the fundamentals and came through in key situations along with how well they were playing in general Yet both times Sandy needed time to see what they were made of?

        As said before, the Mets can’t win for winning.
  • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 11:51 am

    DISTRACTION?!?!

    WTF has Santana ever done to cause a distraction?!?!

    VERY CURIOUS to find out your reasoning behind that statement.
    • Hotstreak January 6, 2013 at 11:55 am

      I think he was referring to his putter and the frolic in the sand trap.
      • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 12:43 pm

        Sorry Hotstreak I dont follow…you lost me
        • srt January 6, 2013 at 1:54 pm

          Think he’s referring to the rape allegations against Johan, which he was never charged with. The woman then filed a civil suit.

          http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5454238
          • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:57 pm

            LMAOOOO

            that was 4 years ago !!!!

            O
            M
            G

            Yeah, i’ll go out on a limb and say that 90% of the 86 Met roster would be a “distraction” for the choir boy crowd

            It is hilarious how certain players are picked on…
        • Hotstreak January 6, 2013 at 2:00 pm

          Johan Santana was charged with in effect date rape which he says was consensual at his gated Florida community golf course. Charges were dropped due to lack of sufficient evidence. It very well could have been a ploy to get Santana to pay her to hush it up.

          http://www.tmz.com/2010/08/11/new-york-mets-johan-santana-pitcher-civil-lawsuit-sexual-assault-rape-pregnant/

          Eight page Charge which was dropped due to lack of sufficient evidence.

          http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/johansantanacomplaint.pdf
• DrDooby January 6, 2013 at 11:32 am

  Don’t think this makes a lot of sense. What’s Santana’s open market value right now ? Maybe 7 or 8 million $ ?

  And what would be a realistic haul ? A decent 2nd tier prospect ?

  And besides, as of right now, Jenry Mejia or Colin McHugh already is the probable # 5 starter for the 2013 Mets. Trading Santana opens yet another rotation hole you’d try to fill without rushing anybody to the majors.

  So, unless the return is surprisingky high, this makes little sense.
  That said, maybe trading Santana to a team with lots of OF options could make sense.
  Say, Santana and 20 million $ to Arizona for Jason Kubel.
  • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Santana also has a NTC….so he can pick and choose what team ( and stadium ) he wants to play for in a CONTRACT YEAR.

    Me thinks he probably wouldnt want to go a place that was a launching pad for right handed hitters, esp being a fly-ball pitcher
    • DrDooby January 6, 2013 at 11:57 am

      True.
      Plus, having a ” nominal” ace around to keep pressure off Harvey, Niese & Co shouldn’t hurt.
      • Just-Da-Damaja January 7, 2013 at 8:44 am

        unfortunately…according to some folks around here…Santana would be a distraction….

        what a surprise
• greggofboken January 6, 2013 at 11:38 am

  If you hold until the July 31 deadline or close to it, Santana’s remaining salary is down to $8M plus the $5.5M buyout. Mets would still have to pick up a good chunk of it, but far less. He’ll have a chance to re-establish his value, and it positions him to be of high value to a contending team who loses a starter. In addition, hopefully by that point you have Wheeler up and don’t feel the pain of the loss of the spot.

  I think that’s the way to go.
  • Frankie Says January 6, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Isn’t anyone the least bit scared he could get hurt any moment and miss the entire season for like what? Five seasons in a row now?
• Satish Ram January 6, 2013 at 11:51 am

  He won’t be traded. No articles were posted yet about how Santana was lazy or too outspoken. When that happens, beware… the process has begun.
  • Hotstreak January 6, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Jingo Journalism and loose lips sink ships. Santana You’ve got to change your “Evil Ways” baby.
• BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 12:16 pm

  “”Of course don’t expect much in return for Johan as this would be a pure salary dump. Think Daniel Herrera. But still, I’d be all for it.”"”

  WHAT?!?! You’d be all for salary dumping Johan Santana and getting nothing substantial back in return??? LMAO….

  You honestly believe that by getting rid of Santana and his contract that the Mets would add a GOOD Outfielder and another pitcher to replace Santana??

  LOL….Dream on my friend….You still havent learned that when you play with fire you’ll get burnt everytime

  So far History has proven other wise…No money will be reinvested in this team if Johans money comes off this year.

  I’LL GO ON RECORD NOW AND SAY SANTANA WILL HAVE AN ALLSTAR SEASON THIS YEAR(bookmark this Jessep so you can quote me later in the season )

  Santana came off a shoulder surgery last year and was a Total Stud for the 1st half but due to the arm injury and a whole year off his arm tired the 2nd half and his last 4 starts were very bad and ballooned his stats.

  Check out the 1st half stats compared to the 2nd half:
  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=santajo02&year=2012&t=p#half_extra
  • BadBadLeroyBrown January 6, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Besides losing Dickey and then Santana in “”The Same Offseason”" is too much a hit especially if you havent added any talent and just gave Santana away.

    The blowback would be catastrophic if the Mets paid half $15M of Johans deal for him to play for another team and have success while the Mets just have a Herrera-type to show for it…Not to mention how much it weakens your whole rotation since everyone would move up a spot…

    Potential Rotation minus Johan
    1.Niese(vs.Strasburg/Halladay/Hudson/Kershaw/Cain/Wainwright/Latos/Gallardo/Garza)
    2.Gee(vs.Lee or Hamels/Gio/Medlen/Carpenter/Lincecum/Greinke/Cueto)
    3.Harvey(Not ready to bump Harvey past Gee in rotation…still a rookie has to overtake Gee)
    4.Mejia/Young/Familia/McHugh/or ?????Potential Free agent pitcher
    5.Mejia/Young/Familia/McHugh/or ?????Potential Free agent pitcher

    YUK!!! The only strength going into the season automatically becomes another weakness…..And Gen-K 2.0 begins (aka Depend on and Rush the prosepct arms)

    Im shocked that you would approve such a deal Joe D. Knowing full well they would not use that money saved on any offensive help
    • Joe January 6, 2013 at 6:22 pm

      Isnt Jeremy Hefner going to be in the rotation?
  • ifthevansrockin January 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    His arm did not tire. He got trampled and messed up his ankle, which led to the problems he had. Never any indication that his arm was not OK.
• Mr North Jersey January 6, 2013 at 12:36 pm

  I don’t know if a team would really be interested in a trade for Santana even at $14M considering his season ended short due to what was reported to be stiffness in his lower back.
• Metfan Lou January 6, 2013 at 12:46 pm

  Same exact pattern as Pedro Martinez. Their careers are similar and so are the endings. At the end Martinez was a 5 inning pitcher and with our bullpen we can’t carry a pitcher the rest of the way. Good move on the Mets part if it works out but I APPRECIATE all that Johan has done for us. I believe he gave us everything he had when he was on the mound. If Alderson doesn’t want Santana darn sure he won’t want Jurgens either.
• Hitman January 6, 2013 at 12:49 pm

  I’ll be shocked if Santana is dealt before the season. No way in hell should that transpire and for what? A Herrera type return for a former Cy Young award winner who’s a season removed from a no-hitter and currently with a low value? No way. You have a better chance of waiting until June-early July for trade talks to consummate.

  If I’m dealing Santana, I want a top OF, relief, and a starter. Nothing less.
  • Brendan January 6, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Yes, he’s much too valuable. Let sign him to an extension instead.
    • Hitman January 6, 2013 at 1:26 pm

      I hope you’re being sarcastic.
      • Brendan January 6, 2013 at 1:31 pm

        Oops, I forgot the sarcasm font. But you did make him sound like a team was trading for Verlander.
        • Hitman January 6, 2013 at 1:47 pm

          As he’s already proven before the fatigue and the ankle injury last season, when he’s 100%, he’s STILL one of the best pitchers in the game. There’s no questioning his talent, just concern over his health. I’m not gonna get into the countless no-decisions or painful losses that he should’ve had in his back pocket as a “W” since he’s been a Met, because not only would I be here all day, it’s irrelevant. Can he get a big return back, especially for a contender looking for one big pitcher to give them that extra push with a surplus of talent? Absolutely. Texas is always looking for starting pitching for an extra advantage, and I’ve even gone on record last year saying that if Santana were to revert to his old form, Texas would be a perfect destination. Unfortunately, it didn’t transpire and probably wouldn’t have gone over well due to the euphoria of the no-hitter. It’s funny that you bring up Verlander, because when I think about it, he could also be Verlander’s teammate, with Detroit being another suitable destination. Needless to say, they just came off appearing in the World Series, so obviously their mindset now is to win at all costs. On top of that, Santana is very familiar with the AL Central, plus a rotation of Verlander, Santana, Scherzer, Sanchez, and Fister makes it tough for anyone down the stretch.
• Joey D. January 6, 2013 at 2:21 pm

  I would not be against the Mets trading Santana and getting some good young player in return, not a prospect and not a budding superstar (for that becomes unrealistic – we’re talking about both Santana’s age and the Mets fiscal restrictions) but one proven to have modest major leaguer caliber that could help address our needs and build for the future – along with using the remaining money saved from his contract for the same purpose.

  That would represent insight and indeed building for the future. But if the result is just another high rated prospect in the low minors, then it would just be another case of salary dumping being more important than the addition of talent.
  • Hotstreak January 6, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    Hi Joey

    I agree with you.

    How about an expanded deal like this:

    To Mets
    Bret Gardner
    Joba Chamberlain

    To Yankees
    Santana and Mets pay 50% of Salary
    Jeurys Familia
    • Joey D. January 6, 2013 at 7:11 pm

      Hi Hotstreak

      I avoid trying to play general manager as far contemplating trades because there are so many organization-related cause and effect factors that we are not familiar with or could even appreciate.

      So I tend to judge them after agreed upon so I will look at that scenario in that vein.

      On paper it’s not a bad move for the Mets and not a big gamble for we are really only giving up is a prospect. At 26, Chamberlian has not been the pitcher the Yankees built him up to be after that late 2007 season call up and is coming off a series of injuries. Perhaps there is still something in his mechanics and/or his maturity which the Mets can straighten out.

      Gardiner is only 28 and hopefully fully recovered from his season long injury. Brett could be that good lead-off hitter with speed that the Mets so desperately need and a great glove.

      But this is the problem – Chamberlain becomes a free agent after this season and Gardiner after 2014. If they do well, they are going to have to be paid more than just the five and a half million combined they make now and for a few years at that.

      That’s my point about the monetary plan being more important than the re-building one. Yes, a good move but would Sandy want to take the risk of signing what could turn into two “expensive” players in a relatively short time? He hasn’t so far.
      • Hotstreak January 6, 2013 at 7:47 pm

        Hi Joey,

        Thanks for a great post. This is definitively a punt year EXCEPT to espouse your and Metsie complaint why not be competitive AND rebuild.. Metsie actually made a valid point with in effect stated to build incrementally. We need desperately a guy like Gardner. To talk about putting 4-5 OF and Justin Turner in OF mix is both depressing and ridiculous even for a rebuilding team.

        As for increased payroll when Brett and Joba become FA, hopefully in 2014 and beyond we can retain them. Besides if the Yankees do in fact pick up lets say only 7 M of Santana ‘s salary It could help get an additional OF such as Hairston which I think he will settle for one year in the area of 4.5 M with the Mets.
        • Joey D. January 7, 2013 at 12:23 am

          Hi Hotstreak,

          Thanks for the nice words.

          The financial problems with the Mets are not short term in nature and thus why I do contend the moves are made are overwhelmingly more in terms of the business end than the competitive one. Hence the point about Joba and Gardiner becoming free agents being my concern if that type of trade was made and they came through for us in flying colors.

          But the Mets haven’t started to re-build incrementally beyond the farm system and that is a necessity. Sandy is entering his third season at the helm and hasn’t made such other moves yet. Why hasn’t he? If it is a matter of money, that is the point I’ve been making about re-building being a smoke screen. A re-building plan comes from a combination of 1) prospects, 2) acquiring young players through free agency, 3) the young players already on the major league level and 4) retaining veteran players who can still produce and provide the necessary leadership. So far Sandy has done the first, has not done the second, created a hole in center by not doing the third and has not been abiding by the fourth.

          What Sandy said about inexpensive players only producing a 50 percent return applies also to re-building – one cannot expect to re-build itself into a winning team by just doing fifty percent of the job required. He still isn’t picking up on that other half as shown by his actions for 2013, now his third winter at the helm. In fact, his prior moves have made the process even more difficult by creating more holes to fill. So what does that say about the validity of his plan? Again, taking into account the long-term ramifications of the Mets fiscal problems it doesn’t seem as if he has a real plan outside of the Wilpons. Pittsburgh and Kansas City have been making money with losing teams in small markets that even with revenue sharing prohibit them from taking the four steps required to create a winner.

          And since baseball is now being run as a big business, if fielding a losing team is all one can do to avoid losing money, that’s where the organization is going to go. And that wouldn’t have been the direction the Mets would have taken decades before when it was handled as a game when concentrating on building a winning team came first. And, as pointed out in that article, the benefactors of those times were the fans when even a high school student could afford to take his date to a ball game. Now, we are losers in both ways.
          • Hotstreak January 7, 2013 at 12:43 am

            TV seems to be where the mega bug are evidenced by the Yankees, Dodgers and Braves. Since the owners of Mets own majority shares in SNY then they have to be competitive. I keep on saying although SA made a lot of mistakes such as Reyes and what I think is possibly even greater that is bad mouthing Ike when he will be at worst a Dave Kingman type with excellent defense. I do not see Ike remaining a Met and I do see Duda is his successor. However SA also finished Phase 1: keep the Wilpons as owners. Payroll will go up to maybe 115-120 in the future with over 20M Santana an remaining of Bay contract off the books. Meanwhile SA got us three top tiered prospects. To quote Gary Cohn, the Mets are at a seminale moment or at a crossroads. That is why even I who will tolerate rebuilding will not tolerate the outfield options they have right now.
            • Just-Da-Damaja January 7, 2013 at 1:07 am

              #TRUTH ====> what I think is possibly even greater that is bad mouthing Ike when he will be at worst a Dave Kingman type with excellent defense. I do not see Ike remaining a Met and I do see Duda is his successor.
• peter January 6, 2013 at 2:38 pm

  Does not really make any sense to trade him before the season. I thought a July trade would happen if Santana pitches well. They can eat most of the salary then or all of it for a better prospect, if Sanatna pitches the way he did in the first two months of last year they should get a decent prospect.Now even eating half his saleary means a team has to pay 15 mill for an injury risk starter, not gonna happen. The Mets would have to pay 22 to 25 million in my opinion to get any sought of decent prospect, also no team will pay 15 mill for him anyway, but 8 to 5 mill for the year is more reasonable to take a chance on Santana.
• Metsie January 6, 2013 at 3:31 pm

  Well all those who ask why would you do it now the answer is simple and you probably gave it a 100 times whenever trading Dickey and Wright were the subject…

  Whoever gets him has him for the entire season and can get a comp pick at the end when he leaves.

  As for us it really only makes sense if we intend on buying into one of the top FA guys left out there because there will be no reason to wait until next year for money to free up to actually start fixing this team.

  I have no problem with them trying to trade him now I don’t think they will get all that much unless Santana pitches lights out up until July….I don’t think anyone thinks thats a real possibility.

  If they do not spend the money they are saving then we can expect Sandy to retire after this season. He will leave and say Mission accomplished as Santana’s money unspent should be enough savings to have the team turn a profit (could be as little as $10 but even one dollar would qualify)and Sandy can leave on his trusty steed moneyball and take Selig’s job.
  • Russell's Mets January 6, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    @Metsie didn’t Santana have a 2.76 ERA (6-4 record) on July 1st 2012? You’re telling me there is no way he can pitch another 3-4 weeks at this level? I’m not saying it will happen but it will be over 2 years removed from his surgery, he should have a lot more fire power this summer then he did last summed mid way through. I expect something along these lines for Johan Santana on July 30th:

    3.29 ERA 1.180 WHIP 22 GS 134 innings 10-6 record
    • Metsie January 6, 2013 at 4:16 pm

      Yeah but no one cares what your ERA is if you can’t get past the 6th inning as starter….

      Of the 7 times he made it to the 7th (one being the NoNo):

      2 Were Shutouts (great!) but the score was 9-0 and 8-0
      1 other he got to the 8th due to score being 5-0 (the last good start he had)
      3 were No Decisions Two of them eventually losses, One Win.
      1 Other was a win, It was his first win og the season and it didn’t come until May 5th his 6th start.

      Can he pitch well before July? Of course he CAN….The issue really is WILL HE?
      And even if he does will you get as much interest for him then when they can’t get a comp pick as you will now when you will?

      The CBA has really hurt the Trade Deadline return and willingness of teams to give up anything significant (especially from a prospect perspective) knowing they will not have any future gain unless they pay for it and could just as easily save the prospect and pay for it at the end of the year.

      Until Santana has proved he will last a full season I don’t see the type of performance from him that will change anyone’s mind about taking that risk. There will be far better option available to them when the time comes….

      Thats doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t pitch well but will it be well enough for a team to say I can’t win a WS without him so they will give up the future to get the now….

      I just think it is unrealistic to think he will be that good….
      The NoNo was a product of a bad call and other than that there were maybe two starts that even hinted at what Santana used to be….
      The rest were all struggles and the product of a big lead giving him the wiggle room to take risks and not have to do too much to get the win and let the lead work for him…

      But you are correct he COULD have a great first half…But I believe the doubts are all about that second half he has yet to play since the surgery.
      • Just-Da-Damaja January 6, 2013 at 11:59 pm

        2 Were Shutouts (great!) but the score was 9-0 and 8-0

        In the NL, its more likely the pitcher gets pinch-hit for in a tight situation in the late innings…
• ifthevansrockin January 6, 2013 at 4:27 pm

  If money gets freed up, it does not go right into Jeffys piggy bank. It offsets team expenses. So if say they did “find” 15mill. If that gets used to pay off more of the massive debt service and loans, then it actually does help speed up the process of getting the Mets back into “normal” operating mode (where a lot more of the revenue generated can go back into the product on the field, not overhead expenses).
  • Metsie January 6, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Your not making your point quite correctly…

    #1 – The Mets have no outstanding Debts or Loans other than some deferred money to players.

    #2 – If the money is saved on the TEAM side it only helps the Wilpons because the money they will NOT have to put into covering the team losses can be used to pay Satdium and SNY loans they may have.

    These are all seperate companies…
    The Mets paid off the MLB and BoA loans with the money they made selling off Team Shares at 20Mil a pop.
    If the Mets as a company doesn’t SPEND it does not add money to the coffer that COULD be spent…Is it merely money that does not have to be accounted for by revenue.

    So they aren’t saving money they are saving potential losses revenue can’t cover that they would have to pay out of thier own pocket or take a loan out to pay instead.

    So any money NOT spent is not helping them pay debts it’s just reducing the amount of money they will have to pay out to the team to cover the bills of the mets leaving the rest of thier personal money to pay for the Stadium and SNY.

    People seem to think that cutting 15 Mil from payroll is GETTING money….It isn’t it is just money that is NOT going out.
    They don’t actually get an extra 15 Mil to do what they want with.
  • Joey D. January 6, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Hi if,

    That $15 million would help for each each drop in savings does add up, however, the severity of the Mets financial situation is going to to take many, many years to resolve itself. One does not get swindled out of a half billion dollars and a source of an approximate sixteen percent return off that (maybe $80 million a year) and recover that slowly. Mind you, this does not include the extensive loss of attendance revenue. Thus the franchise has to sustain itself based on it’s own resources (even if we include SNY) and to do that requires a lot of austerity measures that pertains to major and minor league players as well.
• ray sadecki January 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm

  I cant see any team willing to pay more than 5mil for santana at this point. and then theres the buyout. He aint going nowhere.
• jdon January 6, 2013 at 5:46 pm

  santana is shot. NO ONE will pay 15 mil to this guy.
  • Metsie January 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    They might but ONLY if he could convince them that he can be a .650+ Win Pct &15+ win pitcher.

    And to do that he would have to basically go undefeated (or damn close to it) before July which is neither realistic or one could even hope for.

    The most likely one to do it would be someone like the Nats (who hardly need it) to help fill a 5th spot on a very young rotation as a mentor….

    And it would be more likely to happen NOW than at the deadline due to the lack of Comp Pick if he goes at the deadline.
    At least they will get a comp pick if they trade for him now….

    I just don’t see a fit anywhere for that to happen.
• TruthsaboutMurphy January 6, 2013 at 7:19 pm

  So sorry I’m adding a comment to this thread but this seems to be classic, middle off season crap to fill up space. If anyone is dumb enough to pay half his contract, of course they’d jump on that but no one will.

  Since that’s the case, I Santana does prove effective and healthy, of course he’ll be dealt mid season, it’s just good baseball decision making.

  I will say, Santana is a pro and after RA being traded, he’s the biggest warrior they have left. When on the mound and healthy, he was always their best pitcher. To say he was a distraction is weird and I can’t figure how anyone could put that tag on him. It not fair. If any if the ten top pitching prospects has the heart and will of Santana, the mets will be in great shape during the next few seasons.

  After this one of course.
  • Amanda January 6, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Why dont you take it up with Cafardo rather than shooting the messenger?
• tlagee January 6, 2013 at 8:39 pm

  Just Sandy doing what Sandy does best – gut the team of any useful major league players not named Wright.

  Like with Dickey, Santana is no longer a relevant player because Sandy has already gutted the team into oblivion. The team will suck with or without him – so if they can pick up a couple of million than pull the trigger.

  Pathetic.
• Old School Mets Fan January 6, 2013 at 9:59 pm

  I love Santana, but unless he is dominant, no one will give anything of value for a pitcher who is making 31 million and has made one September start since 2008. I think even a deadline deal nets you, maybe, a top 15 prospect.
• Just-Da-Damaja January 7, 2013 at 12:02 am

  Please STOP with the 31 million dollar figure….

  AT MOST, Santana will be paid 25 mil…and thats only because they are counting the 5 mil buyout for 2014 against the 2013 payroll…

  Our 2014 payroll is somewhere around 43 mil

  Our 2013 payroll ( with the buyout ) right now is around 68 mil…

  Sandy is selling u guys on a bag of BS and b/c he is your lord and savior, you take everything from the Book of Matthew as gospel