Mets Want To Emulate The World Champion Giants

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• Hotstreak January 20, 2013 at 1:03 pm

  Why were the fences moved in then?
  • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I’ll be sure to ask that on our next conference call.
  • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Actually, no need to ask I just recalled why they did that. “Chicks dig the longball.”
    • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 1:25 pm

      I thought is was the car and the long one?
      • Hotstreak January 20, 2013 at 1:32 pm

        We got rid of Dickey.
        • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 1:46 pm

          LOL
          A lot of women are going that way too!
  • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Well two reasons… one MUCH less apparent than the other….

    1 – We all asked for it and knowing how much they planned to do that would make us UNHAPPY they threw us a bone which also applies to David Wright’s contract!

    2 – (less Apparent) By doing so they increased the seating capacity of the stadium…Just in time for the All Star Game!
  • JeffMcKnight'sGlasses January 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    It’s still a big park…now just relatively big instead of ridiculously big. If anything, having really good pitchers might be even more important in the smallest, hardest to pitch in parks.

    But the blurb from the article itself is pretty silly. Pretty much every team tries to win by playing good, sound, baseball. And generally teams need some semblance of both pitching and offense to win. And if players are any good – they’ll be expensive/get expensive – not just the HR hitters.
• jerseymet January 20, 2013 at 1:07 pm

  We are one of the worst fielding teams in baseball. That is a big part of why we lose.
  • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    thats cuz We put marketing a player on a team above fielding

    Reyes at SS – Tejada at 2B – resign Beltran at RF – resign Pagan in CF

    move Murph to 3B.

    now the 2 weak spots on ur defense are LF and 3B

    instead now we have weak spots at LF – CF – RF – 2B and 2nd best options at SS

    but hey, signing the team ambassador / captain / franchise player was more important !!!
    • JeffMcKnight'sGlasses January 20, 2013 at 1:59 pm

      The Mets couldn’t afford that even if they wanted to. And that team and the defense wouldn’t be particularly good anyway.
    • Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:08 pm

      So, instead of 1 guy over paid, you want 4.

      Beltran was leaving. That was never in doubt. Unless Alderson were to give him a deal similar to the one that was ending. No matter how polite Alderson was, Beltran was treated like crap the preceding 5 years. The only thing to get him to say would be massively over paying him.

      Reyes has no chance of living up to the deal he got. that’s why Miami’s “take it or leave it” ultimatum worked the day before the winter Meetings.

      Murphy is a lousy 3B.

      Pagan is not worth $10 million a year. And, shall we go through all the posts here that wanted him run out of town? All the comments from people suddenly lamenting his departure that at the time, were burning him effigy?
      • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 3:33 pm

        OH yes because 13 Mil is overpaying for 32 HRs and 97 RBI….Yeah thats right…
        We should be able to get that for a dollar and a coupon to staples….
        • Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm

          You think that is what Beltran would have signed for?

          Did you miss the part where he wanted to leave? Where we had to give him an extra $20 million to get him to come here in the first place? Where he got treated like crap for 5 straight years and then got accused of having a “contract year” in 2011?

          You think just matching what St Louis gave him was going to cut it?

          Dream on.
          • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 3:50 pm

            Yes cause thats what he signed for….
            Unless you have some proof to say he turned down a 13 Mil offer from us your $#!T out of luck proving he wouldn’t have….
            • Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:58 pm

              So, you’d take the same money from a place that made you miserable and is going to be retooling for the length of your contract as a new place that is still a contender?
              • Boomer January 20, 2013 at 4:02 pm

                Beltran was very vocal about wanting to be with a team that was going to win right now. That was not the Mets and everyone knew it.

                No way was Beltran going to resign with the Mets as they began a rebuilding process and it made no sense for the Mets to keep him when they could get a guy like Wheeler for him.
                • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 4:08 pm

                  And if he had signd with us we would have won right now….
                  We were within three games of leading the divison in late June….

                  Where would we have been with the start Beltran had last year?

                  Would we be so far behind after the All star break or even HAVE that losing streak that made you guys say NOT WORTH ADDING TO if he were here?

                  NO so saying we were not a contender is really just a self forfilled prophecy made into reality by not even making an offer he could accept!
                  • taskmaster4450 January 20, 2013 at 11:11 pm

                    The Mets never won with Beltran and were not about to win with him last year.

                    That is just asinine to think that.
                  • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 11:18 pm

                    technically…the mets have not “won” with any player since 1986….
              • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 4:06 pm

                Your one of those who says it’s all about the money!

                Show your quote where he said he would not sign with us….

                You too Boomer show ua ll this PROOF and links to where Beltran said no way I’m going back there…..

                Even at 14 Million Beltran was well worth it!
                • Boomer January 20, 2013 at 4:10 pm

                  Ok. But it took all of 6 seconds on Google to make it happen. 6 seconds of my life I will never get back.

                  >>Beltran himself, who very much wants a chance to play for a team with championship possibilities, smiled when the subject of a trade was raised and tried to deflect the question.
                  “Hopefully we can start winning ballgames,” he said, “and we’ll all stay here.”
                  It sounded good, but chances are that Beltran didn’t really believe it. The Mets need to look to the future – they are too far behind the Braves and others to make a run at the wild card realistic.
                  Like it or not, agree or not, even Collins knows Beltran is a goner.

                  http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/inevitable-carlos-beltran-trade-personal-new-york-mets-manager-terry-collins-article-1.160098

                  This was hardly a state secret. Everyone knew what the score was.

                  But then just about everyone knows what the Mets plan is now and why they aren’t active in the FA market. Just about everyone but not everyone, apparently.
                  • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 4:17 pm

                    HAHAHAHA!

                    First off nothing there says he wouldn’t sign a new deal with us….
                    and you take a DIRECT QUOTE that says

                    “”Hopefully we can start winning ballgames,” he said, “and we’ll all stay here.”

                    Then assume what some reporter said is PROOF Beltran wouldn’t….

                    He said he wants to stay which is PROOF he wants to go!

                    Yes he wanted to play for a contender…Every player does….
                    Doesn’t mean he wants to move to a new city it means (LIKE WHEN IT WAS DICKEY) he wants the team HE IS ON to contend….

                    What team was he on when he said hopefully we all stay?

                    If thats the only proof you have then I rest my case you guys got NOTHING but the musing of a reporter who needed to make a juicy story out of thin air!
                  • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 11:21 pm

                    “>>Beltran himself, who very much wants a chance to play for a team with championship possibilities, smiled when the subject of a trade was raised and tried to deflect the question.
                    “Hopefully we can start winning ballgames,” he said, “and we’ll all stay here.””

                    We’ll ALL STAY HERE…

                    in other words….if we are in a pennant chase….we wont get traded away !!!

                    K-Rod
                    Reyes
                    Beltran

                    the 3 guys who were on the trading block !!!

                    so if Sandy never punted on 2011, maybe we have a RF for 2012-2013…who moonlights as a team leader ?
  • Hotstreak January 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/year/2012/seasontype/2/league/nl

    Not in above link that we were 12th out of 16 NL in pitching ERA but lead the ML with 101 QS – quality starts. Defense is very important but pitching includes the bullpen. Pitching is 90 % of the game and to quote the late Earl Weaver “Momentum is as good as the next days starting pitcher. SA so far has did nothing to address the OF or the BULLPEN. Both are horrendous.
• Metsie January 20, 2013 at 1:22 pm

  “The Mets’ plan is to emulate the Giants by playing sound baseball in a large ballpark ”

  Who knew the Giants won the World Series without an OF?
  Or that it was the key to playing sound baseball in a large Ball park?
• Ed Leyro January 20, 2013 at 1:25 pm

  I was looking at Buster Posey’s numbers at ages 22 and 23 and Travis d’Arnaud’s numbers at the same age. They’re quite similar.

  Posey (age 22): .325/.416/.531, 31 doubles, 18 HR, 80 RBI in 422 AB.
  d’Arnaud (age 22): .311/.371/.542, 33 doubles, 21 HR, 78 RBI in 424 AB.

  Posey (age 23): .318/.384/.519, 36 doubles, 24 HR, 89 RBI in 578 AB.
  d’Arnaud (age 23): .333/.380/.595, 21 doubles, 16 HR, 52 RBI in 279 AB.

  d’Arnaud was injured for half of the 2012 season (his age 23 season) and managed approximately half the at-bats Posey accumulated in his age 23 season (which was spent between AAA and San Francisco). Had d’Arnaud reached just 500 ABs last year, his numbers would have surpassed Posey’s age 23 numbers.

  It was tough getting rid of Dickey, but we may just be getting another Buster Posey-type catcher in d’Arnaud. Whether or not d’Arnaud leads the Mets to the promised land like Posey has remains to be seen. (It should be noted that having pitchers like Cain, Bumgarner, Lincecum, etc. will also make a team better.)

  For the record, the Giants finished with four consecutive losing records from 2005 to 2008. They finished above .500 in 2009, the first time Posey was called up. They’ve been winners ever since.
  • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    I would point out that Posey posted his numbers in one of the toughest parks for homerun hitters in over three decades, AT&T Park.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor/order/false

    AT&T ranks #1 in lowest HR Factor and to put that into context Citi Field ranks 19th.

    It makes what Posey did even more remarkable.

    It also tells us that the Mets struggling to hit home runs is more about the players and less about the park.
    • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 1:51 pm

      Well that big jump is post fence moving….
      Look at 2011 and we were 28th…Doesn’t mean anything in regards to what Posey did in SF though…They have been the hardest to hit dinger park both years….
      • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm

        But we replaced Beltran, Pagan with Torres, Baxter. So was it the fences or shedding quality hitters? Those extra 45 home runs would have skewed the numbers.
        • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 2:08 pm

          YUP !!!
        • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 2:20 pm

          I’m not following you here…

          We hit MORE HRs (as did everyone else) since they moved the fences in…

          Certainly Torres and Baxter were not a part of that….

          Ike and Hairston maybe….
          Plus a lot of OPPOSING players who could hit them where they couldn’t before….

          In 2011 we were 3rd from the bottom in HR factor….Move the fences in and we jumped to 19th.
          • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 2:24 pm

            I’m saying that with Beltran/Pagan instead of the other two, the Mets would have actually had a top 10 HR rate. Believe it or not.
            • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 2:37 pm

              Your talking as a team nt specifically about Park factors and on that we agree…

              I also don’t know that the fences helped (need to see how many HRs were due to fences) because the biggest jump was due to Ike who didn’t need the fences moved in at all….

              Yes we might have jumped higher if we had Pagan and Beltran on that I think we agree….

              But I was talking about the Fences did help the jump in park factors…
              Just not us as much as it probably helped everyone else.

              I would LOVE to see a chart as to how many HRs were a product of the new fences and who got more out of the deal them or US!
    • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 1:59 pm

      i wonder how many HR Wright would’ve hit if the mets never moved their fences in

      Can we still David Wright a power threat if he bats in front of a guy hitting 30+ HR in a neutral park and still barely squeezes 20 HR ?
    • Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:22 pm

      Home runs surrendered is not the same as Park Factors. Park Factors works on the notion of all the talent being equal. that’s why its used as a measuring stick.
      • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 3:44 pm

        And it is calculated based on the number of HRs that occurred in it….
        If it wasn’t it would be the same every year….
        • Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:52 pm

          No, that is ESPN’s goofy cocktail napkin math. It doesn’t take into account the quality of the players.

          You need several years of results, adjust for the quality of the players and figure environmental factors.

          Plus, true Park factors includes all run production, not just home runs.
          • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 4:01 pm

            Yeah several years of results which is why after 2 consecutive years of being 12th we dropped to 28th (after as Joe pointed out losing Beltran, Pagan and Davis and Wright too)
            Then jumped back up to 19th when Ike got back and Hairston hit 20….

            NOpe nothing to do with what happened in that stadium on a yearly basis at all…

            Back to the drawing board (or table napkin) for you!
            • Donal January 20, 2013 at 4:27 pm

              ESPN has a page called Park Factors, not a statistic. What Joe was referring to was home runs allowed, which is different from Park Factors.

              Home runs allowed does not take into account the talent of different teams. It also just measures an individual year.

              Which is why I mentioned the difference.
  • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Posey

    age 21 – .351
    age 22 – .325
    age 23 – .349

    Travis

    age 18 – .241
    age 19 – .305
    age 20 – .255
    age 21 – .259
    age 22 – .311
    age 23 – .333

    Buster was also throwing runners out at over 40%

    Travis

    24%
    19%
    23%
    30%
    27%
    30%
  • Metro12 January 20, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Ed, excellent post. d’Arnaud doesn’t need to be the exact equal of Posey to have tremendous value. He just needs to be roughly 80% the overall catcher that Posey is. That will be enough for me and far better than any catcher in the entire Mets organization or who was available via free agency this winter. That to me will mean the trade was justified, even though I wish there were a way to have kept Dickey and get someone like d’Arnaud. But that wasn’t going to be possible.
• DrDooby January 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm

  That’s pretty much the plan. Win with a team loaded with strong young pitching, have a few good ” anchor” bats offensively and surround them with veteran stopgaps on a Year to Year basis.

  Whether it works remains to be seen.
• Boomer January 20, 2013 at 1:33 pm

  >>The Mets’ plan is to emulate the Giants by playing sound baseball in a large ballpark and getting tremendous pitching to carry them through.

  You. Don’t. Say. I gotta write this down. Pitching and defense wins championships. I better lie down, getting dizzy from enlightenment overload.

  >>I agree with Kevin, and that probably sizes up what the Mets might be attempting to do, but so are a dozen other teams, and when you’re banking everything on pitching prospects it’s always a huge gamble. There are no guarantees.

  Yea but the Mets are too cheap to invest in a guaranteed plan that exactly no team has ever had. The Jays and Angels, to name a couple, both think they have bought a championship this year. At best, only one of they is correct. More than likely, neither of them has.

  Chicks dig the guy with ring.
• Hitman January 20, 2013 at 2:45 pm

  Is this really a shock?

  Emulating a team who values pitching, speed and defense is exactly where you need to go. It’s why teams like the St. Louis Cardinals have always been successful. Like I stated last night, guys like Felix, Pedroia, and Pence who are future FA’s, as well as trading for young foundation pieces (I.E. Giancarlo Stanton) would and should be solid starting additions if the Mets wanted to get where they wanna be if you put together the pitching/defense like the Mets are beginning to do.
• srt January 20, 2013 at 2:49 pm

  MMO has officially become the most negative Mets blog out there.
  • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    This is MetsBlog’s lead post:

    http://metsblog.com/metsblog/nyp-mets-plan-to-rely-on-tremendous-pitching-going-forward/

    Which is more negative?

    Go look at the 350 comments on this positive Mets.com post:

    http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130116&content_id=40989886&vkey=news_nym&c_id=nym

    Look at our R.A. Dickey post, the most positive post of the day here or Ed Leyro’s post about Peterson/Seo.

    Notice no comments there? Look at the spring training battles post, another positive one.

    See the lack of comments?

    I think your comment is unfair and doen’t describe the landscape.

    On Thursday the New York Mets emailed me and thanked me for not bashing the team like all the other sites have over the Banner Day issue.

    They said it wasn’t their fault and had no control. Thousands of those tickets were already sold to people planning to go to Banner Day. In addition to Opening Day it was the hottest ticket in town.

    “Thank’s for pointing out our hands are tied. We always appreciate your support.”

    The Mets understand that debating trades, moves, non-moves is part of the rich history of baseball and that’s what blogs do best.

    I dont think it’s fair to paint people like Jim, Coop, Ed, Joe S., Xtreem, Adam and 45 other people with one broad stroke like that. All because of threads that all sites have a disclaimer about.

    Mets Merized Online is owned solely by Joseph DeCaro and is not affiliated with Major League Baseball, the New York Mets or any media outlet cited. The purpose for this website is for opinion, entertainment and commentary and is protected under the Fair Use Provision of the 1976 Copyright Act. We are not responsible for any comments posted for each article by our readers.

    Again, look at the top posts on Mets.com and MetsBlog, the two official sites of the Mets, then get back to me.

    Thanks,

    Joe
    • What January 20, 2013 at 3:16 pm

      C’mon Joe, you’re acting like people take those sites seriously just because they’re official lol

      Out of the legitimite, quality mets sites, I’d say this one is by far the most negative.
      • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 3:20 pm

        How many times are you going to change your alias?

        Can you look at the last 25 posts and tell me how many were negative, and by negative I don’t mean cherry picking the opinions that differ from yours.

        Show me the negatives.
        • What January 20, 2013 at 3:26 pm

          I figure that since I don’t need an account I might as well change my name each I post lol. Some of the random names are other people though.

          The posts are fine and dandy and all, I’m really referring more to the comments.
          • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 3:30 pm

            I understand, but sometimes I’m not around all day like I am on a Sunday to control all the comments. I’m a one man show as moderator and usually don’t react unless someone emails me. But I’d take the actual discussion that takes place in our threads over what I see on MB and Mets.com every day of the week. The Mets think our threads are very positive compared to theirs, and they’re right.
            • What's cousin Optimus prime January 20, 2013 at 3:35 pm

              Yeah.
            • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm

              Joe I see no reason for you to havew to defend yourself…

              All the articles are fair and balanced for the most part and if one particular article has one view it isn’t long before an article with an opposing view is posted…

              I wonder if the problem is that comments are negative or the fact that those who want things to be positive all the time just don’t want to HAVE a debate, just some sort of group therapy session they can come to and feel good about things that aren’t very good in many fan’s view.

              If all anyone comes here for is to feel better about a team then I suggest a therapist or counseling as opposed to Internet to solve thier issues. Either that or stay away until the team wins a World series where EVERYONE will agree that things are positive.

              If you not here to discuss and debate why the hell come at all?
              And if your here for that then you have to expect there to be opposing views.

              People should stop complaining when not everyone shares thier desire for positive re-enforcement.
      • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 3:22 pm

        BTW thanks for saying MMO is a quality, legitimate Mets site as opposed to MetsBlog. I might have your comment bronzed.
    • Hotstreak January 20, 2013 at 3:22 pm

      MetsBlog 90% pro Mets
      Met Fans 50% critical if not bitter and 50% almost blind allegiance
      MMO reflects by different writers opinions shared by the met fans above

      Remember we are losing for a long time and had two collapses. It is hard to be optimistic.
      I am here 85 % of the time at metsblog 15% of the time.
      • Joe D January 20, 2013 at 3:30 pm

        Thanks Hotstreak!
    • srt January 20, 2013 at 4:07 pm

      You’re entitled to think my opinion is unfair, but I stand by it.

      This site still has some of the best and most unique content. It’s why I come here every day, several times a day. I didn’t state all articles and authors are negative – you assumed that. And maybe you and some of the writers have a very valid point. But jeeze, how many different ways can you say this FO sucks? LOL.

      I think Banner Day is the least of our problems. I looked at that more on ESPN than on anything the Mets did or didn’t do.

      I loved RA Dickey’s post, I read the entire thing. It also had a shot at the FO.
      I’m not saying every article is the same old, same old.

      Bottom line: it is what it is. We all know it. They fired Omar, they brought in a new FO, they slashed payroll as well as other cost saving measures they implemented. Until this team starts paying for itself, not much is going to change. We could get rid of this current FO tomorrow, it’s not going to make a difference. The Wilpons are not investing any of their own money in this team.

      But don’t take it personal. It’s a great site and it’s not stopping me from reading here daily.
    • tlagee January 20, 2013 at 9:07 pm

      I really don’t understand how comments pointing out that the team we all love is being handled incoorectly can be construed as negative.

      Is it negative to point out that the team is weaker right now going into this season than last year’s 74 – 88 team?

      Is it negative to wonder why?

      Is it negative to think the team has been heading in the wrong direction since Fred was hit by the Madoff scandal?

      Is it negative to believe that some good players on our Mets have been replaced by cheaper players – or that Sandy hasn’t signed one ML free agent to attempt to fix the holes left by ML players leaving?

      Is it negative to point out that the NL batting champion of 2011 and the Cy Young winner of 2012 have been shown the door over the last two off seasons?

      Is it negative to believe that most of the decisions connected with the club are financial and not in the best interest of the team on the field or the fans?

      Is it negative not to buy into the “rebuilding” talk any more than buying into Sandy saying his eye is firmly on the 2013 season?

      People can disagree with all the above statements but I don’t think that opinions that are based on what someone believes to be facts should be considered as being negative about a team they love.
  • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    Maybe if we had improved something other than increases in the loss column people would be more positive….

    Maybe if we had a GM who actually GOT an OFer instead of joking about his inability to get one we would be more positive…

    Truth is jst about EVERYONE here making the posts you just complained about is POSITIVE!
    POSITIVE this team is going NOWHERE VERY FAST!
    • srt January 20, 2013 at 4:13 pm

      ‘Maybe if we had improved something other than increases in the loss column people would be more positive….’

      Well that’s a given.
      I’m not happy about the holes we’ve got either. But are any of you looking forward to the season? I personally can’t wait.
      • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 4:26 pm

        Truth be told…Not Really looking forward to it…
        I sat through the late 70′s which was the last time we traded away anyone worth having was done…

        I would rather watch a replay of that cause at least it would bring back memories of going to the game with my Father than watching the same thing only with different names play as poorly…

        I will watch and look forward to seeing how a few players do but I know how the movie is going to end.

        I can even predict some of the potential storylines that will be used….

        Such as the Santana comes back to his good ole ACE self only to see him traded off for something 3 -4 years from now in July….

        But looking forward to it? Not really…Just the warm weather and extra cash I make running trucks for the broadcasts.
        • srt January 20, 2013 at 4:31 pm

          Those late 70s and early 80s teams were the worst I ever watched – and that includes the early 90s team.

          I’m hoping the worst of this current wave is behind us.
          • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 4:41 pm

            Well thats kind of my point….

            This team last year was 8-10 wins better than those teams and we just traded a 20 game winner from that squad.

            Even if they make up half the games he won that puts us right in line with the Late 70′s win%
            We are already where the 91 and 92 team was only we don’t have any stars left to trade and with Generation K the sequel starting at a theater near us this year….

            Like I said I HAVE seen this movie before….

            I might be more interested if I didn’t think we pretty much gave up on the season before it started and did SOMETHING to improve the team more than just upgrade the Catcher at the expense of a Cy Young Pitcher.
            • srt January 20, 2013 at 4:50 pm

              Let me ask you…seriously…..just what you’d like to see right now as far as upgrading the OF.

              - Some say sign Bourne: I don’t think they have the money.
              - Trade for Justin Upton: That might be an idea if the D’Backs haven’t gone or record saying they want 2 top prospects for him. Who here is willing to give up our top 2 prospects?
              - Some wanted Victorino as they see him as an upgrade to what we have. Maybe….but did you look at that contract? Did you see what Cody Ross got? My opinion….no thanks.

              I’d love to pry Stanton away from the Marlins. I can just imagine what Loria wants for him. I’m not sure even if we were willing to give up the farm if we’d have the best offer.

              We’d be a lot better off if we had even 1 real starting outfielder. But we don’t I’m not sure how you fill those 3 holes in one season on a shoe string budget. You either have to be willing to spend on FAs or willing to part with some of your best prospects.
              • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 5:16 pm

                I think they missed the boat and the ship on fixing the OF has sailed already SRT….
                I would have been happy with Victorino…Expensive but only a 2-3 year deal to hold us until Nimmo was ready. If 13 Million scares you as a GM then you should be running a Minor League team not one in the MLB because thats the average salary of players who fill around the stars on teams that become winners.

                They can say they don’t have the money but truth is thier only INCREASE in payroll this year is due to taking Buck in the Dickey trade (added a Million to Dickey’s option pay) and roughly 5 Million split between Parnell, Davis and eventually Murphy in Arbitration.

                Wright is playing for less money that last year as far as this year’s noney is concerned.

                SO where did the money go?

                Between deferrals with Wright and Bay, where did all that money go?

                So far of their two highest picks in the draft….
                They traded a Cy Young Pitcher to fill his spot and the other hasn’t progressed past A ball in two years of being signed.Barely got out of instructional league….

                So I think the ship to make this team better sailed and now all that is left is HIGH SALARY or Prospect purging trade….And I’m not all that sold on Upton if you have read my bits about him here….
                Better than what we have but not worth what people seem to suggest it takes to get him…
                Not when I can sign a Free Agent and give up a 11th overall first rounder that won’t do squat for me for another 4 years so I guess Bourne is all they have left themselves.
                And let be clear they waited until that was the only REASONABLE option…

                I would have been happy with a median fix to hold us until Nimmo came around or at least would be a decent player until next year when more money comes off the books and maybe we can find a trade for an OF salary dump that won’t require half our Pitching staff in return.
                • srt January 20, 2013 at 5:20 pm

                  Well, you know my opinion on where the money went. It’s not there to begin with……
                  I think they’ve got way less money to spend on the big club then is being reported. I know you don’t agree but the Mets still have a boatload of debt. Yes, they refinanced loans on SNY, – probably got a lower interest rate which is smart – but they cashed out as well. Almost fully leveraged if some reports are to be believed. You have to ask yourself where that money is going…..in my mind, it’s to pay down debt.

                  Now….if they’re trying to pay down all debt with the plan of selling the team, I’m all for that. Unfortunately, I don’t think that happens in Fred’s lifetime.
                  • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 5:39 pm

                    Srt we been down this road before….
                    Where do you thinkthe money comes from?

                    The Wilpons?

                    Or the Attendance?

                    ANSWER The ATTENDANCE!

                    Has their moves helped or hurt that?
                  • srt January 20, 2013 at 6:26 pm

                    The money should come from revenue. Be it ticket sales, merchandise, SNY viewership, shared pool money, etc.

                    We’ve learned just about all of the Mets operating expenses were tied up in Madoff’s account.
                    He’s arrested, the money is frozen, this leaves the Mets scrambling. That nice little speech Fred, Jeff, then Dave Howard made on this and how it won’t affect the Mets was either very naive or a flat out lie.

                    ***************************************************
                    Here was some quotes from a Megdal article in Feb 2011:

                    The denials issued by the Mets were unequivocal: The Madoff scandal did not have the slightest impact on how the Mets did or would do business. As Jeff Wilpon told the Associated Press in December 2008: “The individual partners lost some money at Madoff. It doesn’t affect the Mets. It doesn’t affect the Citi Field project. It doesn’t affect SNY or any of our other operating businesses.”

                    Fred Wilpon, in August 2009, told the Times’ Richard Sandomir that the Madoff scandal hadn’t impacted the Mets in any way.
                    ******************************************************

                    Next was the filing of the billion dollar lawsuit by Picard and that was the beginning of the end. All Howard’s blustering when he accused Erin Arvedlund of ‘irresponsible’ reporting came true – all but the outright selling of the team (so far).
                    Joe D. summed it up nicely here:

                    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/09/mets-vp-calls-madoff-author-a-liar.html

                    Arvedlund, who has a book coming out on Madoff, repeatedly insisted that it is “her opinion” the Wilpons will have to sell at least part of the Mets to cover their losses. But Howard, his temper apparently rising, vehemently disagrees, calling her claims “outrageous, unfounded and grossly irresponsible.”

                    “The figures she’s thrown out are inaccurate and substantially overstated,” Howard said during the interview. “We have said from the outset that the losses incurred from the Madoff fraud have not and will not affect the operation of the Mets. The team is not for sale — whole or in part. It is family owned and it will be family owned for the long term.

                    “It’s a passionate long-term investment. There’s no need to sell. There’s no reason to sell. There will be no sale and I can’t state it any more definitively than that. Her source is bogus and her claims are false and irresponsible.”

                    Arvedlund’s response? “Time will tell,” she said.
                    *****************************************************************

                    This and other quotes, plus the breakdown of the Mets finances both Rubin and AA have done over the past few years, is where my opinions of this being on the Wilpons comes from. I’m still of the mindset that blaming the FO is a little like shooting the messenger. We all know what SA’s main goal in coming here was. And he won’t be here long enough to see this team back on top.
                  • Hotstreak January 20, 2013 at 6:59 pm

                    Yes the Wilpons are highly leveraged but Sandy himself said in effect just because we got money doesn’t mean we have to spend it. He got deferred salary concessions from Wright and Bay and it doesn’t matter where it went it did not go to fill needs not only in the OF but in the bullpen too. Both of which are pathetic. Yes the season did not start yet but my guess is more garbage minor league contract will be given. You and I both agree we are in this mess because of the Wilpons. But now Sandy is not filling needs with deferred money and joking about it. How does Duda, Kirk, Baxter and Cowgill feel about being joked about. Do you really believe SA is a 100% puppet of the Wilpons who keep saying SA we can’t afford it. This even after deferrals to increase options since less cash will be out-flowing on Wright and Bay contracts.
                  • srt January 20, 2013 at 7:32 pm

                    That dry wit doesn’t bother me…I find it funny.
                    I too wondered what our OFs thought when they heard it but, let’s be realistic. None of them are proven starting OFs. Maybe 1 or 2 go out and prove something now. The OF we’ve got now is arguably the worst in the league…no getting around that.

                    Financial mess or not, SA is probably not the type of GM that’s going to spend every last dollar in the till before the season starts. Just doesn’t smack of his MO. He likes that flexibility. The cynic in me though can’t help wondering if some of that is b/c there really isn’t all that much money to spend.
                  • Metsie January 20, 2013 at 10:41 pm

                    Right so lets go down the line…

                    EVERY team gets thier share of the pool money so no problem or drain there…
                    SNY is a set fee yearly that can only change when a new contract is drawn up so that number hasn’t changed since SNY started…So thats not why they don’t have money…

                    Ticket Sales and Merchandise (we will add concessions under Merchandise)
                    How do you make those better?

                    By trading away a guy on a path towards 46 Saves in July 2011 for nothing?
                    By trading away your biggest star, best Hitter and best OFer in July of 2011?
                    By letting your first Batting Champion in Team History leave in Free Agency in January 2012 and not even making a formal offer?
                    By trading your 2nd Best Ofer a day after the Batting champ leaves for two scrubs??
                    By trading your first Cy Young Pitcher since Dwight Gooden in 2012?

                    If there is no money it’s because of what they have done not because SOMETHING ELSE cost them money and forced them to….

                    They didn’t lose a penny off Madoff…
                    SNY fee is the same as it ever was…
                    MLB Share is the same for every team…
                    The National TV Money actually INCREASED…

                    So who and what cost this team the money it could have made?
                    The guys complaining they have no money and are aking decision solely based on MONEY SPENT while ignoring the fact the prolem lay in no MONEY EARNED due to thier dismantling and foolish purging of anyone who might come to see the game, buy a dog and beer and maybe a Jersey to cover up the mustard stain they got!
                • wasadeyo January 20, 2013 at 9:47 pm

                  Teams spent the additional TV money that they are in line to receive next year for this free agent class and in my opinion over payed. Do I want the team to be better? Of course…. but we’re just getting past the top heavy house of cards Org. that unfortunately didn’t work (and fans complained about) Now we’re in the process of building it from the ground up similar to the Giants which was the point of the article and also what several Org. do like the Braves, Cardinals etc….. people should start being a little less Henny Penny and start being a little more rational. I hope all the people that are negative stay away from the games because that’s what made the environment at the games hostile. I don’t like how much the cost is to go with my family relative to the talent………… but I definitely don’t want go to Citi -Field and some drunk A- Hole starts swearing and getting out of control in addition.
              • Just-Da-Damaja January 20, 2013 at 10:44 pm

                no sense giving up the farm for stanton if u cant lock him up for the next 10 years.

                He is 22 years old, a 10 year contract would have him til age 32…where u get ALL his prime years…
                • wasadeyo January 21, 2013 at 12:55 am

                  We can’t “give up the farm” unless we had a surplus of elite prospects. If we did that we would be the Marlins. He plays for their team…. are they projected to win the championship? Even with the players they had last year including Reyes how did that work? Been there done that…. Let’s see if this plan works like other Organizations are doing that have a strong system bottom to top with everyone focused on the same philosophy.
                  • Metsie January 21, 2013 at 1:32 am

                    “We can’t “give up the farm” unless we had a surplus of elite prospects. ”

                    If we had that we wouldn’t need Stanton or to give up the farm would we?

                    You don’t “sell the farm” when you HAVE prospects that are good enough to make your team…
                    You sell it when you don’t have anyone on the farm that can help YOU by might help someone else and get something that does help you back in the trade.

                    So the premise on when to trade the farm is wrong…
                    You should not trade anyone who is eliite unless you have no room for them or your so close to winning something he can’t help you win but can get you something that could.

                    And lets face facts while we got good prospects and thebest C in their Farm no one is projecting Elite on d’Arnaud and someone got a Cy Young Pitcher for him.
                    Hell he isn’t even the best Catcher Montero was…

                    Travis was the third best C on BA’s list last year.
                    And after that Toronto didn’t have much elite left and they made a trade….

                    Sandy should start working the phones start off with Flores and see who has an OFer for him….
                    And ask what they would need in addition to Flores to get him.
• Hank January 20, 2013 at 3:28 pm

  Here’s the crazy thing about this great plan of ours…

  It is also the plan of most teams in baseball. Heck in our own division, we may have the fourth best pitching. The Nats and Braves are either as young or close enough, but definitely better. The Phils are older, but better. We are better than the Marlins for now, but once they trade Stanton, their pitching could be as good as ours or even better. Having the plan isn’t what matters at this stage, executing the plan, continuing to add talent to the organization, and making hope to compete more than another 2-3 season away is what matters.
• Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:33 pm

  “I agree with Kevin, and that probably sizes up what the Mets might be attempting to do, but so are a dozen other teams, and when you’re banking everything on pitching prospects it’s always a huge gamble. There are no guarantees.”

  So, what plan is guaranteed?

  “But if this was really about the pitching – and defense – why then did we get rid of a reigning Cy Young pitcher? That doesn’t make sense…”

  1) He’s not part of the long term plan. Deal with it already.

  2) We got more pitching and defense for him.

  “Why did you fail to sign one the top high school pitchers in last year’s draft? That doesn’t add up either…”

  Something went wrong there, and it wasn’t Stanky asking for an extra $65k or whatever. That is less than the yearly minimum for a minor leaguer. Plus, these deals are usually negotiated ahead of time. Everyone should have already had a good idea of the terms.

  “Now one thing that should not be ignored is that the Giants also won the World Series with the number one offensive player in the National League and reigning 2012 MVP, Buster Posey. We have nobody that comes close to an offensive juggernaut like that.”

  No, but we can probably get that in aggregate. Wright bats .330. Ike hits 35 HR, Duda hits 25 and d’Arnaud hits 20 and has a good average, and we’re in decent shape.
  • Hank January 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    There is hope and then there’s this kind of “hope”. David Wright hitting .330?? He has never hit .330, he has come close once, about six seasons and a few injuries ago. Ike hitting 35 could happen, but he has yet to put together a full season, but I can get on board for this. d’Arnaud hitting 20; that’s a lot to ask for for a rookie. Add in our below average outfield and bullpen, and our fourth best in the division starting pitching…and we’re not even close to being in decent shape.
    • Donal January 20, 2013 at 3:56 pm

      Meh, you’re probably right. He can still come close and you can probably get .300 out of Murphy.

      “d’Arnaud hitting 20; that’s a lot to ask for for a rookie.”

      I didn’t mean for 2013. I mean what we can expect for the next 4 years or so (at least). The offense isn’t as hopeless as some peg it.

      “and bullpen, and our fourth best in the division starting pitching”

      Relief pitching is a tricky thing. It varies so much year to year. That’s why teams have so much turn over, even the good ones. And don’t underestimate our starters.
    • What's cousin Optimus prime January 20, 2013 at 3:58 pm

      How is the starting pitching fourth-best in the division? I’d say it’s second behind Washington.
      • Donal January 20, 2013 at 4:01 pm

        Atlanta’s is pretty good. And Philly is getting old, but they still have some of that talent.

        the Mets pitching staff will be one of the elite, but they need a year or so to smooth out the rough edges.
      • srt January 20, 2013 at 4:41 pm

        Not if you factor in the Braves BP. Both theirs and the Nats are currently better than ours. Heck, I don’t even know who our 7 BP arms are right now….
      • Hank January 20, 2013 at 5:07 pm

        In 2013, we are fourth best. If it’s just starting pitching, we are fourth best. If you include bullpen we are fourth best. Nationals and the Braves have great pitching, we are not even in their stratosphere. And people forget that Philly might be old, but they’re still throwing Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and have improved their bullpen as well. The problem with offseasons is that we often get so caught up just looking at our team and the progression of our guys. But once the season starts, our good pitching that lost our Cy Young ace and our bullpen that was bad and looks worse, will be sobering.
• Joey D. January 20, 2013 at 4:02 pm

  Does it mean now or in the future?

  I can understand teams that wish to focus primarily on pitching and defense will go that direction of the manner of their draft picks trades and signings. If that is the strategy on how the Mets want to now rebuild the club that they dismantled, that is one thing. But if the Mets plan is to emulate the Giants at this time, they certainly are not following the steps the Giants did to become world champions two of the last three seasons. In fact, they aren’t following the steps of any cohesive plan for the moment and really nothing more than a hope on prospects coming through the next two or three years with little help acquired from the outside – again, steps taken by the Giants to help them with their farm system.
  • Donal January 20, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Well, hopefully, we can skip the “throw money down the Aaron Rowand, and Barry Zito money pit” part.
• sarge69 January 20, 2013 at 6:48 pm

  Giants GM looks for certain pieces that will fit and doesn’t give them long contracts and is willing to add a piece during the season, some work, some don’t, but this shows the fans and players that allowing for a great pitching staff you still need to score runs.

  Mets teams of the late 60′s and 70′s won with pitching AND defense, what this team is lacking, especially at 2B, plus clutch hitting and they had the power hitters to complement the other facets of the team.

  This site is the only one that I bother to read most of the comments and post my comments because this is a genuine site and what JoeD and the other contributors post about is from different perspectives, ages and life experiences as a Met fan and I enjoy that.

  There have been certain posters who have made it their mission to be negative more than most but you just scroll by them and move on to the ones that you can see comment with a thought to what they write and present the facts, just the facts!