As for Bonds you can make a good case for him too….
He WAS an HOF bound player long before he took roids and started taking them when guys like McGwire and Sosa were taking what used to be his annual titles away due to thier use of PEDs….

He wasn’t cheating and then decided if others are going to a get away with it, I have to do whatever I can to keep up!

This is the main problem with Bonds and why some think he should get in regardless of his use.

SO it comes down to drawing a line that will have lots of straddlers who get in or shut out fairly or unfailry, Or ignoring all uses that occurred pre-testing and only take action against those who tested positive once it was CLEARLY a violation of MLB rules.

Thats why I suggest making a new wing at the Hall that is for all the guys who played in and through the Steroids era. It will malign those who have never been proven to use for sure, But it does show who got in during an era where numbers may be the product of chemicals and maybe serve as an Educational exhibit for the younglings who go to the hall and see how cheating and chemicals put you outside the hall of the other greats.

There is a ton of evidence on Clemens. Now some may say they don’t believe McNamee. But he had no reason to lie and his life was left in ruins due to this whole thing. There is also evidence from other people that paints Clemens as a PEDs abuser.

A few writers voted for Clemens and didn’t vote for Bonds. Many in the media remarked that this was another example of illogical or inconsistent HOF voting. I agree.

Hate to disagree with you here, because we usually see eye to eye. But look at it this way, no one can ever accuse of us of being the same person anymore!

Whether you or I like it or not, Roger Clemens was found not guilty on all of his perjury charges related to this issue. The amount of actual proof (which is your favorite word) on Roger Clemens is not equal to that of Barry Bonds.

So how can you honestly look at Roger Clemens and give him a lifetime ban when a US Court of Law ruled him not guilty?

If a player is worthy to be in HOF then why penalize them and others then go and vote the same players in the following year or the next when nothing in that players resume has changed?
Too many voters consider themselves judge, jury and decider of when a player goes in.
Piazza, Biggio and Bagwell are no brainers for HOF but because they played in steroid era they are kept out by holier than thou voters.

Really, I know that Baseball HOF is toughest to enter, and I like that, but to penalize worthy players and the say that in 2014 or 2014 they are more “worthy” makes the voters just a bunch of spoiled kids who didn’t get invited to the dance so they penalize those that were able to to go to the dance.

Travesty and all the supposed baseball minds on MLB network and writers who have made themselves judges should be ashamed and not allowed to justify or make eloquent excuses on tv.

They fracked up and should be called out on this lack of integrity.

Really, I know that Baseball HOF is toughest to enter, and I like that, but to penalize worthy players and the say that in 2014 or 2014 they are more “worthy” makes the voters just a bunch of spoiled kids who didn’t get invited to the dance so they penalize those that were able to to go to the dance.

Travesty and all the supposed baseball minds on MLB network and writers who have made themselves judges should be ashamed and not allowed to justify or make eloquent excuses on tv.

They fracked up and should be called out on this lack of integrity.

Guys like Bonds and Clemmon who are KNOWN ped uses should be given the same treatment a guy like Rose got, banned from baseball and entry into the hall!

If they are not on the Ballot then they can’t throw the cotes into a tizzy and what remains can be judged on it’s merits not on who was left after I decided who NOT to vote for.

If it ever comes about that someone who used PEDS is exposed post being voted in they get banned and removed from the hall as well!

Then it is not about SUSPICIONS and RUMORS over use tey made the Ballot based on what was known at the time and if information changes they lose the honor!

Either that or what they need to do is get some fat cat donor who will finance a new wing at the Hall for the “STEROIDS ERA” and anyone who gets inducted from that era gets put there!

It won’t have to be a big section just big enough to hold 20-30 years worth of inductees….

Personally I applaud those who submitted empty ballots….
If you believe none of them deserve to be in that is precisely what you should do.
I’m surprised that it has only happened 9 times since 1936 that someone was NOT inducted…
That number should be MUCH higher if they really are using the standards that they are given.

In order to prove that some guys juiced, Mitchell spent over a year, millions of dollars, and he had the resources of the federal government behind him. How can a beat reporter whose job it is to cover one team supposed to do similar work? How would you go about proving that Dykstra juiced at the time?? Serious. It’s easy to say it could be done. But you wouldn’t even know where to begin to look. Also, what’s your boss gonna say? You’re supposed to be covering the next 162 games for the Phillies, writing pre-and-post game stories every day. When are you going to find time to go on a wild goose chase trying to prove Lenny juiced? Who’s going to pay for it?

This was a booming industry full of guys who are not known as MENSA candidates. You wouldn’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to find evidence if it existed. they weren’t be very subtle about it.

As for Dykstra, you can look at him and say without a doubt that he’s a juicer. But without evidence, you can’t go anywhere with that suspicion. If you publish accusations without proof, you put yourself and your paper at risk for a lawsuit, and you risk your own job too.

The idea that reporters buried incriminating evidence is pure speculation on your part. They likely had suspicions like the rest of us, but without proof they can’t go anywhere with it.

” There was little the beat reporters could do. But that doesn’t mean the media deserve a full pass.”

See, here is the problem. They didn’t just look and fail to find proof. they either failed to look or buried what proof they had. There is no way a room full reporters could laugh at Lenny Dykstra’s “good vitamins” and not know what was going on.

One more point about the beat reporters. Let’s say you, as a beat reporter, dug too deeply into Piazza’s situation with the back acne. He resents you for prying into his affairs. He blackballs you, and gets his buddies, Leiter and Franco, to blackball you. All of a sudden you find yourself having problems getting access to these players. Your stories start to suffer in relation to the other beat reporters. Your bosses notice and — boom — you’re fired! There’s just so much investigative type digging a beat reporter may want to do.

So this is why Murray Chass’ editors told him to shut up essentially — besides the fact that they personally may have also felt it wasn’t fair to accuse someone of PEDs usage without evidence.

So one more good reason why I can’t blame the beat reporters. That doesn’t mean I give the media a complete pass. National writers and NY columnists had the ability to voice their concerns in general on the broader issues (but not point fingers without proof) and so few did. Some did like Verducci and TJ Quinn of the Daily News … but some had a soapbox and didn’t . I don’t recall Gammons, for example, saying anything about it. And he was one of the most influential baseball writers at the time. At any rate, I place the media’s culpability as fairly low because of all of these factors.

Which means I don’t have much more to go on. Which means I say I have no reason to think he did steroids at that time. Which means I don’t go talking about it now a decade after the fact and smear his name.

the other thing is, of course I expect a denial when I ask him, especially if I have no proof. which is why I don’t confront him first. I ask those other questions and do my leg work. If I get affirmative answers to those questions, then I consider asking him directly. But, I have to get proof before I make an accusation.

Does writing and accusing a player of taking PED’s without any evidence qualify as a defamation of character?

Because TECHNICALLY throwing the idea out there with no proof that Bagwell or Piazza took steroids essentially is keeping them from earning $. Because a HoF player does get paid a good amount to go to shows etc.

I’m just wondering aloud really.

So, in terms of “other symptoms” you have as much info on Piazza as we all have today. You ask Piazza how he got such big muscles. He tells you he works hard in the gym. You go look at your newspaper’s archives and the pictures they have don’t show Piazza’s weight to be much different in the past then it is at time you are covering him.

Do you just let it go then? Or do you keep peppering him with questions and have him tell you to bug off?

I get the fear of rocking the boat and losing access, but what is the point of that access if you can’t ask some pretty important questions? Why are you a reporter in the first place?

You can ask. But you are likely not going to be told anything that clarifies the situation, or you are going to be told to bug off. You’re a beat reporter to report on the team you cover. That doesn’t mean investigative reporting. A few papers have dedicated reporters for that (like the NY Daily News) but many don’t even have the budget for it. So your boss is likely to tell you to stick to your assignments. That’s what you’re being paid to do.

Does Piazza demonstrate any other symptoms of steroid use? Did he attain mass in ways that don’t coincide with natural growth? Did his body radically change in a way most likely associate with steroids?

I get the fear of rocking the boat and losing access, but what is the point of that access if you can’t ask some pretty important questions? Why are you a reporter in the first place?

In all honesty, I wouldn’t even be making an issue of the media’s complacency if so many of them weren’t being such blazing hypocrites right now.