Hits & Misses: Upton, Hairston, Bourn and the Dynamic Duo

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• oleosmirf January 25, 2013 at 8:56 am

  Is there a rule preventing sign and trades?

  It seems to me this whole process can be eliminated by having Bourn sign with a team (whose pick is protected) and then trading him to the Mets for a prospect equivalent in value to that 2nd round pick.
  • jessep January 25, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Oleo – You would need a team to sign Bourn and give up their FIRST round pick (unless it’s one of the few protected picks) and then trade them somebody of equal value for a FIRST rounder.

    Why would another team help the Mets out?
  • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 9:20 am

    If I recall, when signing a FA from another team, he has to be held until some point in the season (June 15th rings a bell). So there is no way to sign Bourne, for example, and immediately trade him. The Mets would have to start the year with him and then trade him throughout the season.

    This rule does not apply to players who are signed to an extension. That is why Dickey, when those conversations were going on, could have been extended and dealt although it is against baseball “etiquette” and rarely done.
    • Fonzie13 January 25, 2013 at 11:00 am

      It used to be 6 months from the day the contract was signed. That was 2 CBA’s ago though so maybe 6/15 is right.
• jessep January 25, 2013 at 9:07 am

  BTW nice job by Baltimore grabbing Jurrjens

  Jurrjens will receive a $1.5 million base salary on a major-league deal and can bring his total to $4 million with incentives.
  • Hitman January 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    *groan*
• TJ January 25, 2013 at 9:13 am

  Joe,
  Good post. A few points – I like the attitude of the Duo, but they will need to do it on the field. I recall that Gen K guys were pretty cocky too. Losing out on Upton was disappointing, more disappointing to lois him to a divisional rival, and even more disappointing seeing the price the Braves paid. Prado is a nice player, but come on. On Hairston, I liked him and wanted him back, but in reality his is a journeyman and one-dimensional platoon player. Yes, he is an upgrade to the OF right now, but if they find a better solution, or take that money and invest in a CF/leadoff hitter that can provide plus D in CF, I think that fills a bigger need.
  • Hotstreak January 25, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Actually Scott Kazmir was traded because he was too cocky.
• VitaminCM January 25, 2013 at 9:18 am

  I’m happy that Hairston got a good deal. He’s a great example of a guy making the most of his limited opportunities. He did everything he was asked and made it pay off.
  • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Hairston was a good pick up for the Mets and, over two years, served his purpose. He had a so so 2011 and a career year in 2012. He leveraged that into a good contract for himself which he should have done. Is he a difference maker for the Mets? I dont think so. A good guy to have on the team but highly doubtful he duplicates what he did last year. I look at Hairston the same way I did with AJ from the CWS, had a career year and not likely to duplicate it. I could be wrong but the odds are in my favor on that one.
• Metstheory22 January 25, 2013 at 9:21 am

  Please do NOT nickname Harvey & Wheeler. Last time we did, it did not turn out good for us. (Izzy, Wilson and Pulsipher)
  • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    So I guess calling them K2 is right out!
    LOL
• taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 9:28 am

  I find it unlikely that Alderson will make a play for Bourne with uncertainty surrounding the draft pick (and the money that goes along with it). If MLB would rule beforehand, he might make a play. But the fact that he could sign Bourne and, perhaps, still lose the pick, I dont think that sits well with him. Of course, Uncle Bud might have whispered some insider info after dinner.

  By the way, does anyone know who truly rules on the matter? It always says MLB; does that mean it is the Commish Office i.e. Bud? Is there a committe? Or will all owners need to vote on it?
• Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 9:31 am

  I did a little research of all the mets first round picks, it took me a while but i got it, and please understand why if we’re gonna sign bourn it’s not a big deal, although i am fond of the guy, at least he’s a major leaguer, also, we’d be giving it up to atlanta who they know what to do with their draft picks instead of us so, here you go, the past 30 years Round 1 picks :

  2012 – Gavin Cecchini (minors) SS
  2012 – Kevin Plawecki (minors) C
  2011 – Brandon Nimmo (minors) OF
  2011 – Michael Fulmer (minors) RHP
  2010 – Matt Harvey RHP
  2008 – *Ike Davis 1B
  2008 – Reese Havens (minors) SS
  2008 – Bradley Holt (minors) RHP
  2007 – *Eddie Kunz (minors) RHP PO’s
  2007 – *Nathan Vineyard (minors) LHP PO’s
  2005 – Mike Pelfrey RHP
  2004 – Philip Humber RHP
  2003 – Lastings Milledge OF
  2002 – Scott Kazmir LHP
  2001 – *Aaron Heilman RHP
  2001 – *David Wright 3B
  2000 – *Billy Taber (minors) LHP PO’s
  2000 – Bobby Keppel RHP PO’s
  1998 – Jason Tyner OF PO’s
  1997 – Geof Goetz (minors) LHP PO’s
  1996 – Rob Stratton (minors) OF PO’s
  1995 – Ryan Jaroncyk (minors) SS PO’s
  1994 – Paul Wilson RHP PO’s
  1994 – *Terrence Long 1B
  1994 – *Jay Payton OF
  1993 – Kirk Presley (minors) RHP PO’s
  1992 – Preston Wilson SS
  1992 – *Chris Roberts (minors) LHP PO’s
  1992 – *Jon Ward (minors) RHP PO’s
  1991 – *Al Shirley (minors) OF PO’s
  1991 – *Bobby Jones RHP
  1990 – Jeromy Burnitz OF
  1989 – Alan Zinter C PO’s
  1988 – Dave Proctor (minors) RHP PO’s
  1987 – Chris Donnels 3B PO’s
  1986 – Lee May (minors) OF PO’s
  1985 – Gregg Jefferies SS
  1984 – Shawn Abner OF PO’s
  1983 – Eddie Williams 3B PO’s
  1983 – *Stan Jefferson OF PO’s
  1983 – *Calvin Schiraldi RHP PO’s

  * Supplemental Pick
  (minors) didn’t make the majors
  PO’s (Piece O S***)
  • srt January 25, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Nice research.
    But I literally laughed out loud when I saw: PO’s (Piece O S***)

    Player analysis, from the Book of Alex.
    • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 9:43 am

      LOL, thanks SRT, If i did it other way wouldn’t be original. with that being said, it shows what pretty much we’ve been saying, #1 picks or 1st rounders are not a sure thing, also, read this on the mets and bourn:

      http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Mets-and-Bourn-match-unlikely-without-break-from-rules-012413
      • srt January 25, 2013 at 9:47 am

        ‘…it shows what pretty much we’ve been saying, #1 picks or 1st rounders are not a sure thing…’

        No argument from me on this.
        • jessep January 25, 2013 at 10:10 am

          srt – Isn’t the argument less about the pick and more about the development though? I mean just because the past hasn’t produced many good #1 picks for the Mets doesn’t mean you have to follow that trend. The same can be said about the OF – just because the Mets haven’t had very good OF’s in the past, doesn’t mean it’s okay to do it again.

          I think people often confuse the draft pick and development. I mean heck, I could make a serious case that the free agents the Mets sign in the past give very good reason to never sign a free agent again. That doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

          I just think people need to remember development of these players is MORE important than picking them in the draft.
          • srt January 25, 2013 at 10:19 am

            Jessup – I was going to add to my previous comment that sometimes that ‘failed’ #1 pick can be traced back to development and not the raw talent of the player to begin with.

            I don’t think it’s all on development 100% of the time though. Sometimes, the player could have all the talent in the world but just doesn’t have the mental make-up to play in the MLs. (Billy Bean comes to mind.) Some don’t have the drive and determination to put in the hard work in the minors and continuing into the MLs (Lasting Milledge comes to mind). Some just didn’t have the projected skills from the get go.
          • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 12:39 pm

            No development is just an excuse for picks failing…
            You can’t Polish a turd!

            We have only had 7 Top 10 Picks in the last 20 years
            And only Pelfrey, Harvey and WIlson showed any signs of being good…
            Our problem is we always go for Pitching when we are there and Pitching is the highest risk of busting in the top 10 where taking an everyday player is much more likely to at least make the MLB.

            Of the 7 top 10 picks we have taken 5.5 Pitchers with Goetz being LHP/OF and Preston Wilson SS.

            So it’s not that we dont develop what we get we don’t get many shots at the top of the pack and when we do we risk it all on Pitching which busts more than any other position in the draft.
        • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:19 am

          Well, Development, ok, so it’s not the players?? It’s the development.. Ok, again, there are players who have been drafted in the 7th round who have fared better than the guy who was picked in round 1 on the same thing, there are things that sabergooners don’t understand, it’s not gonna be on fan graph or BA, and that’s heart. Dedication. Wil. Effort. Learning the right way to play the game. just to name a few.
          Ohhh, and so far, you can say the mets are 0-2 in rounds 1 of the past 2 years under a “New” phylosophy, mind you, these gooners who are in the FO now, have destroyed the minors in SD, LA and in part in Oakland… yeah, we should be very encourage things will change due to the new FO and their phylosophy of development SMH…
          • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 10:25 am

            Amazing how your hatred clouds any logical thinking. 0-2 the last two first rounds? What goes on in your head? Bauer and Bundy are the only two who have even stepped foot in the major leagues from those drafts. That means other than Baltimore and Arizona, every other FO is 0-2.

            Come on, if you are going to attack at least you relevant arguments.

            Hey guess what, the new FO philosophy is also 0 for 2013 and 2014 too.
          • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 11:02 am

            What hatred? Am i wrong? Nimmo so far has been a bust to say the least in the minors, and a guy who is pegged to be a backup IF at best in the majors had a terrible season last year, of course, that can change, but my point is, under a new FO with “NEW” phylosophy, their 2 first rounders have struggle big time.. Where’s the development there then??
      • Donal January 25, 2013 at 9:47 am

        1) Free agents are not sure things

        2) Free agents do far more harm when they bust

        3) The organization has had a very tepid approach towards the draft in years past. Many of those guys listed were signed because they were cheap and/or older and could be plugged in to the roster right away.
        • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:23 am

          Yeah, see the pirates and the royals… You get to pick 30 players in the draft, yet if one makes it you’d be thrill, should we be encourage that our draft scout of operation will be thrill if we draft a guy in the first round and he becomes a #4? He said he will be very, very, cery happy if he becomes a #4, but the likelyhood of a player making it to the bigs are exactly what?? 11%?
          You’re never gonna change your stand on FA because you’re an idiot, i guess you rather be losing every year with the kids who didn’t pan out then maybe trying to get FA who can help the team right?? You came back more dumb than what you originally were…
          • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 10:29 am

            Yeah as opposed to looking at the NYMets and signing of big name FAs since 1991. What a wonderful track record that is.

            Does it get tiring trying to defend a philosophy that is responsible for 20 years worth of losing absent a few year of sporadic success?
            • Bayonne Mets Fan January 25, 2013 at 10:40 am

              oh knock it off with this “20 year” bullshit already.

              You know what happened in the last 20 years?

              - Aaron Heilman gave up a HR
              - Carlos Beltran & Jose Valentin struck out with the bases loaded
              - in the last weeks of 2007 the Mets had a successful season and good enough talent capable of closing the deal and going into the playoffs. What happened? They LOST BIG GAMES ON THE FIELD
              - in the last weeks of 2008 the Mets had a successful season and good enough talent capable of closing the deal and going into the playoffs. What happened? They LOST BIG GAMES ON THE FIELD
              - in 2000 Armando Benitez couldn’t close a game vs. Yanks, Todd Zeile hit one of the top of the wall and Timo Perez dogged it. The World Series is a different animal if they win that 1st game but you know what? THEY HAD THEIR CHANCE AND LOST THE BALL GAME>
              - in 1999 Kenny Rogers throws ball four instead of a strike, the Mets lose by one run. THEY LOST THE BALLGAME
              - Let’s go back 23 years to 1990 where John Franco suffered a big meltdown vs. Pittsburgh and basically let the Mets post season chance slip away because of his lousy performance when the Mets needed it the most.

              So SHUT UP with your whiny little 20 years routine. Stop whining. They had their chances and THEY LOST so stop with your little second guessing routine of looking back 20 years AFTER the Mets lost the big games and place the blame where it should be.

              ON THE PLAYERS!
              • Donal January 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm

                And when we keep bringing in players that fail, maybe we should look at how we are doing things.

                Of course, when you have 3 playoff appearances in 20 years while maintaining a huge payroll in the biggest market in the world, you should be reevaluating how you do things anyway.
                • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 1:41 pm

                  You problem seems to be you only count the FAs who fail and not the 20-30 picks a year that do….
                  Count up all the picks we have made in the last 20 years….
                  Tell me how many and what percentage of Picks have failed and then compare it to all of out FA acquisitions…

                  I think you will find that the Draft fails and busts FAR more often than FA does….
                  Because even if they were not worth the money they at least were STILL MLB players!
                  SOmething you can’t say about most of the picks.
            • Bayonne Mets Fan January 25, 2013 at 10:43 am

              You want to know what their success has been sporadic?

              BECAUSE THEY LOST THE FRIGGIN GAMES THEY HAD TO WIN!
              • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 10:54 am

                Ah Bayonne the Cyberbully is back being a tough guy telling people to shut up and typing in capital letters. Psychologists tell us that this shows an extreme inferiority complex. Check your insurance, you might be able to get some counseling about that. It probably extends back to childhood.

                As for the Mets, you know what the last 20 years are: .479 baseball…11 losing seasons…3 lousy playoff appearances. That is what it is.

                Stop with the inane claim it was 6 bad games. The Mets have been a pathetic organization since the likes of Hernandez, Carter and Strawberry left Flushing. To deny that is inaccurate.
                • Bayonne Mets Fan January 25, 2013 at 10:57 am

                  Oh shut up already with your second guessing. They had their chances, they had big games to play AND THEY LOST THEM.

                  That’s it.
                  • Doctor K January 25, 2013 at 11:42 am

                    They lost the big games on the field but those were the few years we were good. They didn’t have a chance to lose big games on the field all those other years because the team wasn’t any good. Some years they sucked. 1991 No big games. 92 none, 93, 94, 95, 96 all years with no big games. The team was terrible. 97 things started to turn around, 98 we lost the last 5 games of the season and missed the wildcard by a game. 99 and 2000 you can say we lost the big games on the field. 2001 we were a 500 team. 2002 back to subpar baseball, 2003 was a disgrace, 2004 again we were awful, no big games those years. 2005 decent year. 2006 great year, lost the big one. 2007 coughed up huge lead to bad teams down the stretch, same thing in 2008 couldn’t stave off 2 bad teams. 2009-2012 no big games. So in 22 seasons there were only a handful of seasons where we lost the big games on the field. I don’t think anybody would be complaining if we lost the big games on the field if in fact we had big games to lose but rarely have we’ve been in a position to lose big games on the field because of a poorly run franchise.
                  • Bayonne Mets Fan January 25, 2013 at 11:58 am

                    Obviously you don’t subscribe to the theory that successes can change the ensuing destiny.
                    You’re talking about seasons after the losses. If they win those big games it has a domino effect going forward. Now whether they win or lose going forward we don’t know but winning those games changes things going forward.

                    You think those bad seasons stay the same if those big games were won? I think not
                  • Doctor K January 25, 2013 at 2:42 pm

                    I don’t see how making the playoffs in 1990 changes the fact that we stunk for 6 years following. Maybe if Strawberry stays things change but otherwise there was still nobody else coming through the system to keep the team afloat all those years. Same thing if they won it all in 99 or 2000. I don’t know how winning makes the next 4 years better. The stars were still aging and again no one in the system to sustain those 2 good years. If losing those games was the cause of the bad years that followed then why didn’t the Yanks tank after losing a big game 5 in 95? Why didn’t the Braves tank after losing back to back WS in 91 & 92? Why didn’t the Cardinals tank after losing the big games in 04 an 05? The Redsox lost the big games on the field in 2003. Answer. They continued to develope players. The Mets didn’t. Had we developed players we wouldn’t have had so many lean years.
          • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:35 am

            Again, it’s not as if the mets have been succesful either way, we’ve tried the whole development thing, didn’t work out, tried signing everyone, didn’t work either… 7 playoffs appearance in 50+ years says a lot…. Don’t try to pin this on FA, we’ve tried this method before of rebuilding and hasn’t worked. Also, remember, even team that rebuild trought the draft need some veterans with leadership to guide them there, even if we have wheeler, harvey, ike and co, all young players, the mets need to acquire someone with leadership and winning attitude, and please for the love of god, do not mention DW as a leader or anything like that, we’re talking about someone like Keith Hernandez with that type of pedigree
            • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 10:46 am

              The problem with a lackluster minor league system (whether it is problems with drafting or development) is that there is little to trade. As we see, teams will trade for prospects. In the last 20 years, since the end of Cashen era, the Mets two big trades were for Piazza and Santana. Contrast with the Yankees and notice all the players who were instrumental in their WS successes: T. Martinez, Clemons, Arod, Swisher, and Granderson. The price for these guys were the likes of Sterling Hitchcock and Homer Bush. Sure they gave up a Rafael Soriano and a Ian Kennedy. And that is the problem…the Mets didnt even develop the Hitchcocks to trade let alone a talent like Soriano.
              • Bayonne Mets Fan January 25, 2013 at 10:55 am

                oh this guy is definitely t agee.

                You forgot a few other big Mets trades during that time but you conveniently or selectively included some of the lesser Yankee acquisitions, but not other big Mets trades like Carlos Delgado, Al Leiter, Turk Wendell, Mike Hampton, Paul LoDuca. All players that were acquired to help the Mets in their efforts to get into the post season and all were BIG players that did just that.

                The only difference in the Mets case is they lost the games they had to win while the Yankees won the games they had to win. Period.
            • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:53 am

              Lackluster???? What does that even mean??? We have a new FO right? and supposedly is better than the one before according to most of you right?? Then can you explain to me why BRANDON NIMMO & GAVIN CECHINNI struggle MIGHTLY in the minors? Aren’t they the kind of players this FO draft to be good then? Lackluster? you can be the #1 pick, but talent along doesn’t guarantee success in the bigs, effort, wil, hard work and dedication do that…..
              • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 11:02 am

                I agree talent alone is not enough to get one to the majors. All the variables you mention come into play. Many are talented and dont see even AA or AAA because of all you pointed out. However, the minors is a numbers game. Sure 1st round picks offer the highest success rate. But, a Latos or a Pujols who were selected in later rounds make up for misses in the first. Plus, the flyers like a 30th round pick making it to the majors like Edgin also compensate a system for 1st round busts. And, the IFA is another factor that sways things.

                Success requires implementing all facets and this is where the Mets feel short. Drafting talent is one part as is then developing it. Whichever was the cause of the Mets downfall, the fact remains they have not churned out high quality prospects (either to help their club or to trade). Success in FA is also necessary. The Mets had winners such as Beltran but they also had their share of busts. Trades are the X factor in that often you are able to acquire something for basically nothing i.e. Johan. But that carries risk also i.e Kazmir.

                The bottom line is that all of it needs to be eventually implemented. I keep pointing to the Yankees because they mix all together over the past 16 year run. They developed a core, made trades that worked out, signed FA (both big name and the fill in guys) and kept replenishing the farm (although it looks like they are a big naked there for the next couple years too). That is eventually what the Mets need to move towards.
              • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 11:05 am

                As for Nimmo and Gavin, give them some time. You might be right in that they will be total busts. In fact, the statistical odds are in your favor that they will not make it to the major leagues other for a cup of coffee. However, to base their futures and the success of the draft on one minor league season is jumping the gun.

                Also, here is a question for you, if Nimmo and Gavin do bust, but if a 4th or 5th round pick from each draft ends up being a 5 or 6 year contributor to the major league team, isnt that draft then a success?
              • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 11:12 am

                if Nimmo and Gavin do bust, but if a 4th or 5th round pick from each draft ends up being a 5 or 6 year contributor to the major league team, isnt that draft then a success”

                Again, we are talking about the first round right? That was the point of the whole conversation, not necessarily a draft consist of a first round pick, there are lmany players who become studs and HOF’s even being drafted late 5th round and up.. again, i will be happy if all players drafted become great, but to put all your faith on a guy just because he’s a first rounder is crazy.. Matt Moore was a 7th round draft pick.
                • Don January 25, 2013 at 2:12 pm

                  I read, recently but can’t remember where, that a study of 1st round picks showed that about 35% became good major leaguers, but only about 20% proved to be excellent players. Does that jibe with the list of first rounders presented by Alex 68 above?
                  • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 2:36 pm

                    Well just on a casual look (2009 and before since those are reasonable to say 4 years they should be in the MLB)

                    2009 – 3 All Stars – Strassburg, Crowe and Trout
                    2008 – 2 All Stars – Posey and Crow (who did not sign that year and got taken again in 2009)
                    2007 – 3 All Stars – Price, Wieters and Heyward
                    2006 – 3 All Stars – Longoria, Kershaw and Lincecum (Hon Mention Perez in Supplemental round)
                    2005 – 7 All Stars – Upton, Zimmerman, Braun, Romero,Tulowitzky, McCutchen, Bruce and Ellisbury (Hon Men: Bucholz Supplemental)
                    2004 – 4 All Stars – Verlander, Weaver, Butler and Hughes
                    2003 – 5 All Stars – Weeks, Hil, Cordero, Billingsley, and Quentin
                    2002 – 7 All Stars – Grienke, Fielder, Saunders, Kazmir, Swisher, Hamels, and Cain (Hon Mention Wright Supplemental)

                    Now lets assume some will be added to years 2006 – 2009 in the next few years…
                    About 5-6 on average will be All Stars (and maybe not amnnual all stars out of 30 picks every year….

                    And even then it’s usually one of the top 5 picks that gets there with top 10 second and all over the place after that!
  • Metstheory22 January 25, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Alex, This actually shows we have had better luck with #1 picks than league wide. Look at the acutual #11 picks for the last decade or two with andrew McCutchen being the most visible of those picks.
  • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Actually the pick is not given to Atlanta…it is lost. Atlanta receives a pick between RDs 1 and 2.
    • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:06 am

      Uhhhhh, Yeah, so basically atlanta gets a first round pick right??? Isn’t that what i am refering to??
      • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 10:28 am

        Since you are such a nitpicker you said “give it up to Atlanta” when referring to the Mets pick. That is incorrect. Atlanta does not get the Mets pick (#11).
      • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:29 am

        Ok, my mistake Task, atlanta get a suplementary pick from us, is that betteR???????
        • taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 10:31 am

          Sorry….Rough night last night and too much coffee this morning. Sorry for being an ass.
        • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:36 am

          It’s fine task…. I can handle it.
  • TJ January 25, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Alex,
    The Mets will not give up their #1 pick to Altanta. They will give up their #11 pick, but Atlanta will get a pick between the 1st & 2nd round, not the #11 pick.
    • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:29 am

      TJ, I know… Again, the pick that atlanta will get is from us, that is what i am refering to. Thanks though.
  • Chicago Days January 25, 2013 at 10:33 am

    i agree with Donal. i think bad F/A signings have done more damage to our team than faulty draft picks. Only 2 of past 16 draft picks have been PO’s. i hate to use that term, because a ‘bad’ draft pick is a talented player, just not a freak talent nesacesary to play in and more, to bs an MLB star. Humber’s career was derailed due to injury.
    And the jury is still out on 7 of past 10 picks, with Holt maybe only a ‘pen arm, but Ike looking real good at this point, as is Harvey, Fulmer very very interesting, and Nimmo interesting and still very young.
    If Bourn doesn’t cost us the pick & slotted $$$$’s, sign him.
    • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 10:40 am

      Chicago, my point is, Draft picks doesn’t hurt a team as much if the team is well put together, but if you’re banking on prospects to pan out and lead your team to the playoffs, then you’d be fu**** because it NEVER has happened. Take the Giants for example, other than Posey, Cain and Lincecum, what other stars have basically come trough their minor league system? they’ve rebuild on FA and trades, built a good enough bullpen to content, then surrounded those guys with good enough players to support them, but if you want a team full of draft picks from the minors etc, then you’d have the royals and pirates for years to come….
      • Chciago Days January 25, 2013 at 10:46 am

        Well said, Alex, i agree. I’m no fan of dreaming in the draft every year, sink or swim, either. i do think we’ve had more than our share of bad to disastrous F/A signings over the years as well as bad drafts. i think the best approach is judicous use of all the strings to success: player drafts, F/A’s, Intl Drafts, trades.
      • Donal January 25, 2013 at 1:36 pm

        “Take the Giants for example, other than Posey, Cain and Lincecum, what other stars have basically come trough their minor league system? ”

        You mean other than a 2 time Cy Young winner, perennial Cy Young candidate and the reigning MVP and former rookie of the year?

        Seriously? That is your argument?

        And you forgot about Pablo Sandoval and Brandon Belt.
        • Trs86 January 25, 2013 at 1:40 pm

          Might want to throw Bumgadner in as well…
        • Alex68 January 25, 2013 at 1:46 pm

          Again, i mentioned them for a reason, pitching is what has given them the 2 WS and timely clutch hitting, they don’t blow teams out, they keep the game close and timely CLUTCH hits from their subpar players is what’s given them the 2 WS rings… Kudos to them but trust me, offensively they have NOBODY that scared you, but their pitching specially in the posteason is lock down…
          Belt and sandoval combines for 20 HR and 119 RBI… Yeah, that’s really awesome… FDB
  • Met Maniac January 25, 2013 at 11:07 am

    LOL THIS! I’m going to do a companion piece of all DePOS first round picks.
  • Hotstreak January 25, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Four Mets’ first-round picks have won championships with the franchise. No first-round picks were on the 1969 championship team.[4] Outfielders Lee Mazzilli (1973) and Darryl Strawberry (1980), shortstop Wally Backman (1977), and pitcher Dwight Gooden (1982) played in the 1986 World Series for the Mets’ second championship team.
  • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Yes but you have to take into account where they were picked in the 1st as well….

    Harvey 7th overall….(Top 10 Pick)
    Pelfrey 9th Overall…(Top 10 Pick as much as we hate him you can’t really say he was a bust when compared to guys like Humber)
    Humber 3rd Overall…BUST!
    Milledge 12th Overall….Closer to what we have this year…

    We have only had 7 Top 10 Picks since 1992 (20 years)

    This is as close to a top 10 pick as you can get without getting it….

    I get the desire to have Bourne or to value the pick high…

    But the decision shouldn’t be made merely based on the pick placement they need to do thier homework, Mock the draft to figure out WHO they think is going to be there to take with the pick and then make a decision from that standpoint.

    Thats why I get on anyone who mentions Omar giving up Picks to get Wagner, Alou and K-Rod….
    Where he was picking he decided the pick was better served as a trade off to get the guy he KNEW would help the MLB team immediatly as opposed to the MAYBE that wouldn’t help for 4 years while he was on the Farm.
• SheawasBetter86 January 25, 2013 at 9:33 am

  Towers took less then he was offered in the Seattle deal. Any fan can see that and unlike when the Rays and Mets traded their stars, Arizona didn’t come out looking like the winner. Towers said he wouldn’t take less and he did.

  What he took was surprising in that it seemed as if the rangers easily could have outbid that offer and perhaps towers waited much too long to make this deal. I’d rather have Olt, plus one of the young top outfield prospects and then some that Texas was offering. Unlike with Sandy, the waiting game didn’t seem to work well for Towers.

  As for Hairston, it’s no biggie. He adds a few more homers to the Mets, but doesn’t make them contenders.
  • DrDooby January 25, 2013 at 10:54 am

    When rating the Upton deal, one shouldn´t underestimate Arizona´s desire to get immediate major league help in return.
    That´s why they signed Cody Ross and traded for, gulp Heath Bell as well this off-season, while adding Didi Gregorius as their new starting SS.
    Prado at least gives them a very solid & versatile player for 2013 purposes. If he´s willing to sign an extension, all the better. And Delgado, a former top prospect has at least done alright in the majors so far and could well be the D´backs # 5 starter in 2013.

    All in all, the haul for Chris Young (the OF), Trevor Bauer and Justin Upton seems stunningly low overall. Low on longterm upside in every aspect.

    Still, unless the Mets had overpaid by including one of Harvey, Niese, Wheeler or Wright in a deal for Justin Upton, there was no way for them to match the Braves offer due to a lack of sufficient shortterm pieces.
    Daniel Murphy & either Dillon Geer or Jeurys Familia is worth a lot less than Prado & Delgado. And a Noah Syndergaard and Domingo Tapia combo wouldn´t have been of interest to the D´backs due to them not being a factor in 2013.

    The 2nd tier prospects the Braves sent over could have easily been matched by the Mets through. Mazzoni – Tovar – and, heck, any generic non-top 40 in the system prospect would have matched the three pieces sent over by the Braves.
    But there was neither a Prado nor a Delgado in the Mets´organization. Either players worth a lot more. Or players worth a lot less. Or players not proven / advanced enough.
• Chicago Days January 25, 2013 at 9:34 am

  I doubt the Mets will bid ‘blind’ for Bourn, giving up the #11 pick in the process. My guess is that if they do proceed in the Bourn stakes, they’ll at least get a nod n’ wink from Selig that all will be heaven in Dennmark & to go ahead & sign Bourn.
  Otherwise, given Bourn’s likely price tag, it wouldn’t be worth it to sign Bourn for4 years / $60mm+, lose the pick, lose the slotted $$$$’s, and lose the compensatory pick for Bourn on his eventual exit (a typical Boras trick).
• taskmaster4450 January 25, 2013 at 9:52 am

  Good thing the Mets didnt sign Pavano. He is out 6-8 weeks.

  http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8878950/report-carl-pavano-falls-shoveling-6-8-weeks
• Peter January 25, 2013 at 10:10 am

  I keep hearing terms like catering to the Mets and what not, here is the thing, it is not catering to the Mets, showing them sympathy, or anything like that if they where to win this thing. The system that was set up is flawed. If the bottom ten teams have their picks protected,well then the Mets are one of those teams. In an instance like this with the Pirates not being able to sign their pick last year, it punishes the Mets this year by making them give up their pick if they sign a player with a qualifying offer of 13.3 mill, in essence taking away the rule of the whole bottom ten teams getting their pick protected a false becasue only the bottom nine teams have their pick protected. That is a flaw. It should be top ten teams and whoever did not sign their pick, so this year would be 11 teams. I read the rule and I do not agree with it. Not because I am a Met fan but because it is stupid. What if the same thing happens to the Mets next year? Then they can not sign a player again without having a high pick protected that should have? It should always be the bottom ten, and if a team ends up not signing a pick then 11, and if two teams do not sign then 12, if they want to keep contracts low by limiting the amount of teams bidding on them then bring in a salary. And that will never happen cause the union is so strong.

  My prediction is that the rule does get changed basically because it is stupid and it will not happen in time for the Mets to protect the pick. Mets will not sign Bourn and he will go somewhere else, then sometime this year or next they will change the rule. Basically the Mets are being punished for the Pirates not signing Appel, nice rule CBA. Rule should be changed and not just for one year. but for every year in the present agreement.I would not give up the 11th pick or the money for the draft for Bourn.
• Brendan January 25, 2013 at 10:11 am

  Arizona must have gotten desperate, either that or they were bluffing when they kept saying they had no problem keeping Upton and in fact had to get rid of him. I never bought into that mariners deal to be honest. It was way over the top and the Dbacks knew they were on Upton’s no trade list. That said it’s hard for me to believe that no other team could have beat that offer. I mean what is Martin Prado really? A Daniel Murphy with 15 more points of batting average?
  • TX January 25, 2013 at 10:21 am

    And more power. And the ability to play multiple positions, and play them well.
  • TJ January 25, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Brandon,
    Yes, I don’t know why the Mets could not have challenged the Braves offer a little more. Delgado is not likely to be Teheran or Wheeler. Prado would be a FA after 2013 and odds are that he would not cost a pick. He plays many positions but they don’t need any outfield help. At 3B, he is better than Johnson but not that much. The other prospects are so so and the Mets have plenty of them. I am disappointed that the Mets could not get Upton, but I am very disappointed that they could not drive up the price enough to require the Braves to include their #1 pitching prospect. That’s bad.
• Hotstreak January 25, 2013 at 12:15 pm

  In the “best interest of baseball” has even a greater issue than the amateur draft and protection of 1st round picks. This issue is “purposefully tanking” in September to get a protected pick. Lets assume the Dodgers and Braves are competing for the first w/c. On the last day of the season: The Mets play the Braves and the Padres play the Dodgers. The Mets based on their relationship with Selig play the Braves to be spoilers and pitch Niese against the Braves while the Padres pitch a September “callup” against the Dodgers. The Padres lose, thus Dodgers win first w/c spot because the Mets played spoilers won and knocked the Braves into a one game playoff with the Cardinals for the 2nd w/c Padres get a protected 1st round pick and Mets do not. By the way the Cardinals beat the Braves in that one game playoff for the 2nd w/c. In this case the Mets and the Braves are both losers because the Padres purposefully tanked.
• peter January 25, 2013 at 1:02 pm

  Purposely tanking can be related to any sport with a draft, football as well. You have to assume the players themselves do not tank, they are professionals and many of them play hard to the end. And the young players who come up in September do not tank, they play hard because it is their chance to prove they belong. Anyone playing for a contract is playing hard till the end to get their contract. That is not an issue in my book.
  • Hotstreak January 25, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    The manager calls the next day’s pitcher. The manager will never tell a player to tank but just as in the Pete Rose betting scandal: The next days pitcher plays a vital role in the game. Just look at the pitching match ups and Vegas odds. Why should in my scenario t given above Collins pitch Niese who has 208 innings under his belt for a new season high pitch against the Braves in that last game. Lets discount possible injury to Niese (which is granting a lot). However since Harvey, Wheeler and Santana are on pitch counts and Gee went the day before its either Niese’s normal turn or a long man or a September call up.
    • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 1:38 pm

      You don’t have to go that far….
      Leave a starter in an inning more than he should…
      Don’t bunt a runner over to get into scoring position…
      Don’t make a Lineup change when one might be the right move…
      Tell a player to take a pitch or hit and run when he shouldn’t….

      Managers have lots of ways to influence games and 99% of them can’t be second guessed or even exposed especially now where signs all come from the dugout
      • Hotstreak January 25, 2013 at 2:48 pm

        Thanks Metsie
        • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm

          LOL Glad to help!
• Don January 25, 2013 at 2:48 pm

  Here are Bourn’s salary numbers for last three years: 2010: $2,400,000
  2011: $4,400,000
  2012: $6,845,000
  How did he suddenly become worth $15,000,000 a year for each of the next four years. What am I missing here?
  • Metsie January 25, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Thos are Arbitration awarded numbers….Which are much lower than FA would bring is someone could bid on him….

    FA salary is based on what other players get for similar performance…
    When you look at the prices some lesser OFs went for it’s not rediculous to think Bourne is worth AS MUCH if not more than most of them.

    The Pick is the one thing holding teams back from paying that.