24
2013
Frank Wren Gets His Man, Justin Upton To The Braves!
An article by 
Update from Perseus 10:15 AM
Well, it looks like the Upton Brothers will be united in Atlanta after all. According to MLBTR, the Atlanta Braves and Arizona Diamondbacks have agreed, in principle, to a deal that would send Justin Upton to the Braves.
Mark Bowman of MLB.com provided the terms of the trade:
The Braves get Upton and third baseman Chris Johnson while the D-Backs get third baseman Martin Prado, right-hander Randall Delgado, shortstop prospect Nick Ahmed and right-handed pitching prospect Zeke Spruill.
This trade basically takes the Braves out of the running for Michael Bourn.
The Upton brothers will patrol the outfield with Jason Heyward. Keep in mind that Martin Prado is a free agent after this season, while Johnson and Upton have 4 and 3 years left under team control, respectively.
Thoughts from Joe D.
The Braves are built to dominate in the NL East for years and years to come while still having a great minor league pipeline to feed the incredible team they have at the majors.
GM Frank Wren has not only drastically strengthened his team, but also added two core players and made the major league squad younger and better with two additions that have yet to hit their peaks.
Justin has three years and $38.5 million remaining on his contract, including a very team friendly $9.75 million salary in 2013.
Now boasting an outfield of Justin and BJ Upton plus another young stud in Jason Heyward, the Braves trio will rank up among the best outfields in the NL.
That they did this without giving up their top pitching or hitting prospect is absolutely remarkable.
In fact the highest ranked prospect in this deal was Zeke Spruill who checked in at No. 9 in Baseball America’s Top 10 for this season.
That’s amazing.
Wren has got the Braves positioned for another dynasty run in the NL East and he didn’t blow up his farm to do it. In fact MLB’s top pitching prospect Julio Teheran is knocking at the door.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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I’d love to land Upton, but if we’re paying with top prospects, than I’d rather see those pieces used to land Stanton. A younger and more proven power hitter.
those 2 guys aren’t in the same neighborhood at this point.
if AZ turned down that package from Tex, they are either nuts or really don’t want to trade the dude.
and it is hard to imagine how much the Marlins would want, or some team being nuts enough to give it to them for 1 OF.
“The outfield is a joke”.
– Matt Cerrone, Executive Editor Metsblog.com
Breaking News: Mets trade for Justin Upton followed by Bigger Breaking News: Thousands of Mets fans admitted to hospitals due to shock.
Oh my god you totally got me. Dont you ever do that again!
Did you at least realize I was joking before the shock set in?
No! I went straight to mlb trade rumors then came back and left you a comment! I would have been so happy if we got him.
Sorry dude for putting you through that but if it’s any consolation Hairston is still out there.
There is no chance the Mets land Upton without Wheeler or Harvey, therefore, there is no chance the Mets land Upton.
It’s amazing what Arizona might get for Upton. His numbers are decent, he’s young, and he’s affordable, but these are superstar prices. I wouldn’t want to deal any of the mets top 3 prospects and would also be reluctant to give multiple great ones. Just gotta let it play out…
Ditto, forget a trade at this point. Id rather see SA deal w/that POS Boras and cough up money to get Bourn instead prospects to get anyone, including Upton, Stanton, etc…
Am I the only one, or at this point, doesn’t it seem like the “name” value (reputation, myth, perception) on Upton is way out of proportion to what he actually brings to the field? especially since he is not some super cheap contract guy you contrl for another 6 years either.
You are certainly paying full freight salary wise, so combined with gutting your farm, it seems a bit too much.
just does not seem like the most effiicent use of limited resources.
Oh, I assume that this post has already been linked to over at MB, right? Or are they suing, since they bought exclusive rights to all content related to the AZ OF?
Agree I’d rather have Stanton but there will be massive competition for him and the mets just do not have what it takes. Upton is more realistic. Unless the Mets can make 3 or 4 good deadline deals and nail the draft they have no shot at Stanton. And to make those deadline deals Santana, Francisco, and if they sign a fifth starter like Marcum would have to play well for a modest helpful return.
I would move Syndergaud for Upton only cause I love Montero and Montero is closer. Upgon woukd gr a tgree year fixture actually do its not to much of a waste. they can still upgrade through the draft those three years and other prospects will be closer to the bigs. Syndergaurd, Flores, Havens/Tovar, Tapia,,,,,, something like that for Upton and that probably will not do it. Wheeler , Darnaud and Harvey are off limits.
Off Topic: A picture of the view from the 3rd base side of the Las Vegas 51′s field. Looks like it could use a slight hint of more green.
https://twitter.com/MetsFarmReport/status/293848343141027840/photo/1
It’s Bermuda grass which goes dormant in the winter. Looks like all desert golf courses until they overseed.
Well, the more desperate they get, the better the chance is the Mets could land him. Not saying it’s a probability, but there certainly is the chance. Who knows, Maybe it’s Flores and Syndergaard only for him. I don’t think they’ll sell that low, but you never know.
Last week, “I’m in no rush” -Kevin Towers
Next week, “D-Backs anxious to move Kubel or Upton”
When will it end?
One more door opening and then closing if history is any guide…LOL
Off topic: I saw on MLB Network the Mariners are negotiating a 4 yr, $100 million extension for King Felix. Thoughts?
If I were Felix, compared to what Greinke got (6/159), I’d turn that down in an instant. There should be no question that he should be the highest paid RHP in baseball, period. His durability and consistency (had 30+ starts since 2007 and thrown 200+ innings since 2008) also must factor into this.
With the mileage on his arm, I would take that in a heartbeat if I were him.
Everyone does realize that Upton hit 17 Hrs two of the last three years in what many consider to be a terrific hitters park. What do you think that translates to if he played 81 games at Citi Field?
“”What do you think that translates to if he played 81 games at Citi Field?”"
Not sure, but why dont you ask David Wright…. how much did he hit?
When you want to remove park factors from the equation the fastest way to do that is to just double his AWAY numbers to see what you will get for the entire season….
It’s not entirely accurate but it does get you a quick and rough estimation of what a guy will do in another park than the one you think is skewing his numbers…
Jusin Upton circa 2012 would have roughly 12 HRs here….
Circa 2011 ( a good year) he would have 22…
Not the guy everyone thinks he is based on his playing in Arizona’s park.
Of his 108 Career HRs 67 of them are in that park.62% of his HR production is in that park.
37% come someplace else….We are muc more likely to get that 37% not the 62% that makes everyone fall in love with him…
But that said he is STILL better than the BEST OFer we intend to throw out there…
Only Lucas Duda has a shot at hitting more HRs than Upton does.
Pass, pass and pass.
Kevin Towers can take his “trade Upton” fetish and pound sand. When he gets done, I’ve got an 8-ton pile of salt he can start on. Upton is not worth it. Besides, exactly WHY does he want him gone so badly?
“Besides, exactly WHY does he want him gone so badly?”
Its not really Towers but the D’Backs owner Ken Kendrick! Whom publicly ripped Upton and Stephen Drew….They already got rid of Drew now Upton is next….Kendrick is the one that started most of the bad press for Upton when he went on the Radio to bash him and not to mention suggested Drew shouldve been back from an ankle injury(I remember when the Wilpons wanted Reyes back from an injury totally derailed his career for a while).
We all know what happens when the owners of Sports teams get involved………………Heres looking at you Jeff Wilpon
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/20120605arizona-diamondbacks-ken-kendrick-criticizes.html
Which is why I say if they really want him gone so badly they will simply have to lower thier price!
What Seattle offerred is not going to be offerred again so they have to decide what they want more…
A Killing in a trade or Upton gone from thier team….
When they finally decide which is more important to them they will find a trade partner…
could be a case of the owner getting his panties in a bunch, and stomping his feet to trade the guy. With Towers wanting to keep him, so he askes for way too much, knowing he won’t get a deal, but he can tell the boss “I tried”
Sort of like when a wife tells hubby to get rid of the old car in the garage, so he advertises it for a couple months at 3x its worth, knowing it won’t sell but he can get the wife off his back for trying!
Still comes down to do you want to trade him bad enough then set the price accordingly….
If you don’t want to trade him then it really doesn’t matter what he is worth does it?
In either case no team is going to offer stupid amounts of kids just to try and change your mind so either you keep him and stop asking for anyone or let him go and ask a fair price.
And now that people know what will GET a yes if only Upton would agree to go there whatever they will get in trade is LESS than that knowing the top offer they have is useless and can’t make the trade happen.
Personally he is probably more valuable to THEM than he is to anyone else unless they play in a park thats even firendlier to his stats than Chase Field is…
I bet the Yankees could get everything Arizona is getting from him with the park factors.
And if not it still wouldn’t be a big dropoff….
of course, Mets fans would have had dreams of Upton in right field for a year now…….AND THE FREAKIN BRAVES are gonna get him!
So typical it makes me sick.
I’m not saying I want to give up what Arizona wants to get him, just saying I don’t want him in our division
when he’s a .240/.310/.400 hitter, you may feel differently
Are you posting David Wright’s 2nd half numbers again ?
well, look at the bright side. If he really does turn out to be an overrated “bust” outside of AZ, this would be a double win. not only did the Mets dodge a torpedo, the Braves would have taken it broadside!
Well if the Braves are going to pay enough to get Arizona to say yes it’s their problem….
What you have to ask is are you willing to pay as much as the Braves are?
Like I said above some teams would get similar results to Arizona based on the Park Factors being similar….So he might be worth more to Atlanta than he would be worth to us…
Probably why Arizona is asking for so much in return because they know he is probably worth more to them tha he is worth to other teams.
The Upton brothers will play together….in Atlanta. Some of us dreamed of this happening for our Mets earlier in the offseason. Oh well, we’ve got 2020. I kid, I kid. But mostly not.
For a sec I thought you said it because someone reported the trade done. Though it looks like the rumors are running hot that it may become a reality before all is said and done.
I think that unless Texas gives up Andrus or Profar (don’t see it happening), Upton is going to the Braves.
Hank, this from a AJC writer.
@ajcbraves
Confirmed that #Braves have indeed made offer to Dbacks for Justin Upton. I think Teheran plus 2-3 other prospects, but not sure
https://twitter.com/ajcbraves/status/294225626209083392
Some worries or conspiracy theories coming true…Washington will be good for a while, so I wasn’t worried about them, until they got Haren to be their #4. Upton to the Braves terrified me because it puts him into the same outfield as Heyward and helps solidify their lineup for a while. The Phils are old and inevitably will implode…just not yet. And the Rangers backing away from Upton…this makes me think they’re in on Stanton..which will cost Andrus or Profar and then 2-4 more high end pieces. And here’s the kicker, Loria might be a pariah, but what they will net from moving Stanton will give the Marlins the best farm in the division and one of the best in all of baseball. We like our young talent, but everyone else will like theirs better.
OK. Say Upton to the Braves… Then what for Bourn? Honestly, where else is he going to turn too? Back to Houston, though they have more exponentially more holes than the Mets? The Marlins? They won’t spend a dime. Texas? Possible. Seattle? Possible as well, but not probable. It could well lead to an Alderson Swoop in.
I was thinking the same thing. And mostly likely, a big reason bourn is still around (Braves not wanting to commit until the resolved Upton 2), which is what Sandy was referring to regarding Hairston.
so as soon as upton is or isn’t trade, Bourn and Hairston get signed immediately after.
at this point, it actually seems reasonable that the Mets are getting one of the 3. Not guaranteed, but possible. Though I really don’t want Hairston back. Roll with Brown instead.
If that whole 400 lbs gorilla of the money thing wasn’t sitting there, Bourn to the Mets on a 3 to 4 year deal (at reasonable money) isn’t that far fetched. Sucks to lose the pick and the $$$ to spend on the draft, but if it keeps Syndergaard, Flores, etc. in the system (which is what Upton would cost), that is well worth the give for what you get in the take.
Heyman reported earlier that the Mets, Rangers, Mariners, Orioles, Cubs, Rays and Dodgers were other teams that might make a late run at Bourn..
I am not sure how I feel about Bourn. I guess it would depend on the money. I don’t think he is all that great….his best year was a 103 OPS+, so I don’t like the idea of spending a ton on him. But then again, there aren’t many CFs out there and he does at least get on base at a decent (not great) clip….and is better suited to the top of the lineup than other guys they have.
SO much for the notion that Seattle set the market on Upton eh?
“The word is that Arizona’s asking prices have come down considerably”
Which begs the question…Have we bothered to call them to find out if the price has since adjusted from when it was too much for us to talk any further?
The Braves are skilled at picking & developing talent. i strongly oppose ‘giving them’ our 1st Round #11 pick. We’ll regret it.
mets would lose the #11 pick, but Braves don’t get it. they would get a comp round pick (same pick no matter what team signed him)
Thanks ifthevansrockin…you’re right. Do i feel any better?!?
Don’t they get a sandwich pick, not the 11th?
Soooo, Does this mean the mets contending year will be push farther?? 2017 maybe???
lol I was going to ask a similar question but you beat me to it!
They did this without giving up their top pitching prospect? Wow! Frank Wren is a truly awesome GM, a master baseball man.
I heard the guys on MLBN talk about the Braves and Upton this morning. Saying that the Dbacks were hesitant on Julio Teheran due to his terrible year last year. It appears they went with bulk over name.
I guess it really depends on Delgado. He struggled last year but he’s gonna be 23… so is he a prospect anymore? Not sure.
So I think we established I’m not a big Upton fan. I think his home/road splits show a major flaw. I think Mets fans who wanted Upton will look at Delgado and the other prospects and say “we could have matched it.” I’m not sure how you match Delgado. Maybe with Gee? He’s MLB ready now which I assume is why Arizona wanted him.
Anyway, the key here is Prado. Don’t listen to me, listen to the Braves fans. Who could the Mets give that matches Prado? Murphy?
“im hearing prado..NOOOOOO”
Re: acquiring Johnson “He also strikes out a TON. Pretty much guarantees we’re going to be the worst strikeout team in the league next year.”
“Still it’s tough to argue with exchanging a future FA for a player we can control cheaply for a while. But, damn, 3B is going to be a black hole of defense.”
“Oh god..Not Martin. This is……. I don’t even know. Bittersweet but worse.”
“Prado…No Prado can’t leave. Don’t like that.”
“Close a hole by opening another.”
“did we get worse? Prado is too damn important. Now Simmons has to be the leadoff hitter. If BJ leads off I will flip out”
“who am i kidding. I’m bummed. Prado was our freakin MVP”
“I hate that the Braves lost the versatility of Prado. The fact is injuries happen, and a guy like Prado gives you the flexibility to cover nearly every position.
“Not to mention, Prado has been a fan favorite. I think overall, this hurts more than it helps. We are trading known production for some variables and unlimited potential. And that AAAALLLWWWAAAAYYYSSS works out (sarcasm off)”
I agree. Did the Braves really get better? To start, as you pointed out, they have Uggla, Freeman, and both Uptons who tend to K a lot. I asked below if Upton is really better than Prado? All along, I felt that BJ was not an upgrade over Bourne based upon what I saw with him in Tampa.
The Braves might be the Marlins of 2012-2013 off season…a lot of noise but not too much in the results department.
Boy you’re all over the place trying to diminish the Braves player moves. That’s a battle you are going to lose. And you’re sham of an excuse that the Upton Brothers strike out too much is another indicator of the mindset of today’s fan that’s too caught up in individual stats moreso than team building. I must have said this 8 thousand times already that the sum is what counts more than the individual parts. The Phillies had 4 hitters strike out way over 100 times in 2008, the Big Red Machine had Bench & Perez strike out over 100 times back then and in those days to have 2 hitters strike out over 100 times was like having 4 or 5 today.
Both teams are World Series Champions.
It’s about baseball and the sum being greater than the individual parts and that sum includes coaching too.
That might be the case but look closer at the Brave players. They have 3 guys who struck out over 150 times last year with another 2 striking out over 125. They also have two guys, McCann and Uggla who were .230/.220 respectively. BJ Upton is a career .250 hitter.
As for the comparisons, where is a MVP type guy like Howard in the Braves lineup like he was with the 2008 phillies. How about the bat of a Chase Utley. And I am not even going to reply to the comparison to the Big Red Machine…..anyone who compares the 2013 Braves to the Big Red machine is certainly missing something.
sigh, The Braves are World Series contenders. Get over it. You are SO jealous, so unfair. But I guess Bixler, Cowgill, Brown, Baxter, etc are all minor league fodder that every team does, like YOU defend it to be huh?
But the Braves? Not a good move.
Give me a break, you just cannot be taken seriously because you’re JEALOUS and you rationalize your views to fit anything to protect Sandy. Just like your ridiculous Omar comments – you are just unfair.
This was a GOOD trade and helps sets the Braves up to be contenders for many years to come, your GOD Alderson was outdone AGAIN. It happens all the time. And you don’t like it. You’re so full of shit your cornea must be brown.
And I didn’t compare the Big Red Machine to the current Braves I just used them as an example to off set your claim of having multiple players who strike out a lot being a detriment. In the examples I listed it did not have an effect on their teams who won World Series.
You’re just a dishonest piece of garbage who will stop at nothing to paint your false God in a positive light and will rationalize any other move that shows him up to be to not be a good move.
Take a hike, buddy.
But the Phillies lived and died (and still do) by the Home Run. That isn’t the Braves. the Braves won’t have one guy hit 48 HR followed by 2 more with 30+.
In fact, either BJ or Simmons will lead off. That means they either limit one of their power hitters or have a guy who may not be an adequate leadoff hitter.
Do you think Paul LoDuca is a sham?
Paul Lo Duca @paulloduca16
All the Upton trade means is that the Braves will lead the league in strikeouts…playing for the 3 run homer rarely works.
hey task – I disagree with you on the Braves team. I mean, Upton having to be the star of the offense, I don’t buy it. But fitting in with Heyward, Freeman, McCann, Uggla and BJ Upton… I think he does that well.
I think people are grossly undervaluing their arms.
I have a hard time seeing how anybody could peg the braves any worse than 3rd in the NL on paper.
I think strikeouts are more of a rally killer than anything. At the end of the day if you fly out to 2B or shallow CF… it likely has the same impact as a strikeout. It’s 1 out. The mental aspect of a K is worse, no doubt. But if you produce runs, your strikeout total is less alarming. Oakland, Washington, and Baltimore were top 6 in team K’s last year… they were in the playoffs.
Don’t forget what turned us off about Upton was home and away splits but that is not as big an issue with him going to HR friendly Turner Field in Atlanta as it would be coming here…..
OK, so next up, the Mets to get Bourn. Do it Sandy!
Also, Prado is a big chip in that trade. I didn’t think they’d have to give up someone that can hit like a champ and literally play everywhere.
Nice pick up for the Braves. But Prado is a real good player who you can play almost anywhere. So they gave up a lot too.
Does anyone know what the Braves rotation is in 2013??? Is it set or in flux?
If I had to guess Metro…
Hudson, Medlen, Maholm, Minor…
Beachy will eventually work his way back, maybe mid june.
So, the fifth spot could be eventually Teheran’s.
And they let Tommy Hansen go to the Angels. I think Hansen is getting back on track and will have a very good year with the Angels. I just don’t like a lot of the moves the Braves’ make. They lost Jair Jurgens too but he has some leg problems that needs to be resolved BUT they may have given up on these two guys a little early. Remember Hansen and Jurges were once Premier pitchers.
Am I the only one thoroughly unimpressed with their rotation, given that Hudson will be 38 and Beachy has never pitched close to 200 innings at any level? They have no ace. Obviously their bullpen is first class and can make up for a lot of the rotations’ shortcomings. But I just don’t see how they will get very far with that rotation.
Metro – I guess it depends on your view of Medlen. 10-1 1.57 era in 12 starts 120K/23BB 0.91 whip.
I think they worry less about an “ace” because they know they have an elite bullpen
Jessep — the most innings Medlen has ever logged in one season at any level is 138. I guess, like the Mets, the Braves are looking forward to 2013.
Should read “2014″ … need more coffee.
I am and have been unimpressed. My guess was Mets 3rd with Braves 4th. They have a 38 year old ace (who is not a knuckleballer) and the odds of Medlen matching last year are nil.
As for the BP, it is still great but I cannot foresee a duplication there. No way Kimbrel has a .45 era again (or whatever insane number he had).
It’s not just Kimbrel though. It’s Venters, O’Flaherty, Walden, and Martinez. That is an elite bullpen.
As for Medlen, he was used in relief at times so to Metro’s point about his innings, I don’t think that’s valid because he wasn’t a full time starter.
Just like Strasburg, Medlen has TJ Surgery but the Braves chose a different path for him. They eased him into the playoff hunt by starting him in the bullpen rather than having him log tons of innings in April, May.
Jessep, the point about the innings and Medlen is that they will likely have him on an innings limit because he is still young. And if they don’t, he might be at risk of fatigue later in the season and, worse, an arm injury.
So if they have him on an innings limit — along with Beachy — then who is going to fill in the blanks?
In a lot of respects. the Mets rotation is in better shape than the Braves, even though they traded away a CY winner.
yeah sorry I have to disagree with you. He was on a 160 innings limit last year and didn’t crack it because they were smart about his arm and how they eased him into the year. He’s 26 years old not 23… Atlanta had no problem with him going to the WBC… don’t you think they would if they were concerned about his elbow? Wren actually said he wants Medlen to go because he’ll work with Greg Maddux (whom Chipper compared Medlen to btw)
I think Atlanta handled Medlen perfectly last year and showed up the Nats while nobody paid attention.
Even if Medlen has a limit of 180-190… they proved they know how to handle it with the best interest of the team at heart
Not saying Medlen wasn’t handled perfectly. last season. Far from from it. And, Maddux — well there you go for why they had no issues with Medlen in the WBC.
I think Medlen’s shelf life is around 170-180 innings for 2013 — whether he just succumbs to fatigue at that point or whether they pull him from the rotation out of precaution. So the Braves will have to make up for those missing innings. As well as those from Beachy who will also be on an innings limit. That’s all. They have to hope that Teheran or someone else is ready, and Teheran hasn’t been impressive at all so far at the ML level.
Yeah, Prado is like a more skilled defensively version of Murphy. What’s interesting is this is Prado’s numbers last year:
.301 .359 .438 .796
and this is Upton:
.280 .355 .430 .785
Obviously last year was considered a down year for Upton as well so you are obviously paying for potential with Upton. I also think that Prado is a FA after this year.
Good comparison. And Upton played in a hitters park. Their OPS+ says a lot: Upton 107 and Prado 114.
It must be as you say a matter of Prado’s impending free agency. The Braves never have a lot of money to spend.
The most innings Medlen has ever logged in a season is 138. I guess, like the Mets, the Bragves are looking ahead to 2014.
See above re: Medlen.
TJ Surgery and was eased into 2012 by starting in the pen so that they could have him start games down the stretch. IE what the Nats should have done with Strasburg
Ha, so what happened to the stuff said here about AZ not wanting to trade Upton at all (even though he’s clearly been on the block all year).?
Excuse me, but we post what guys like Rosenthal, Heyman, Olney report.
It was posted on most every MLB site not just here, and mostly on MetsBlog who also kept saying Mets were in on Justin Upton including this morning.
We don’t invent news here, we only report it and debate it.
But now that Upton has been traded, it’s like there’s a gaping hole in my heart.
No more Justin Upton rumors.
…What will I do with my life?!
I’m betting we start seeing the Mets tied to a bunch of Trumbo rumors now. And then that will be followed by a hundreds of posts that say “Trumbo’s not worth it, keep the prospects”.
We should make it Stanton.
I’m sure that’ll get the people talking…
Not sure about that, I have been trying to trade for Trumbo all off-season. LOL. Only problem is now we have no MLB players to trade for him and I can’t see the Angels looking for prospects.
Other than Wheeler and TDA, the Mets dont have any top notch prospects at this time.
I wasn’t saying anything about the Mets and Upton or that those rumors were fake. I was just talking about Upton in general. There were posts here saying that the Dbacks didn’t want to trade Upton, one (I think by you, I don’t remember) essentially equated AZ’s desire to trade Upton to the Mets desire to trade Wheeler. Those other reporters you mention were consistently and correctly reporting Upton was on the block and the DBacks wanted to move him.
The Braves overpaid for Upton. Martin Prado alone is high value to any club. He plays third base and roams the outfield with equal skill and is capable of being a consistent 300 hitter and drives in a lot of runs. This is the guy the Braves announcers always talked about that would take the sting out of Chipper’s retirement. One of the most solid players in MLB. To also giver up a quality arm they were develping in Delgado along with Prado improves the Diamondbacks and in my opinion does not improve the Braves. I am glad Sandy did not get involved in this high stakes poker game. The Braves got snookered. They will now how maybe the best outfield in baseball but at what price? Should be interesting but they could regret this trade. The Braves do not have a good track record in trades.
‘This is the guy the Braves announcers always talked about that would take the sting out of Chipper’s retirement.’
I thought this as well.
They may have plugged a hole in the OF but opened one at 3rd base now.
If they’re that sad over losing Prado, they can just re-sign him in a year.
Are you saying that a team other than the Mets might actually plan for future years?
Blasphemer!
If he has a good year in Arizona which I bet he will, they will not have the money., because I think McCann will be going into his last year before he needs a new contract and if you try to get Prado back you will not have the money for McCann. If Prado leaves the D Backs a good fit would be A Rods replacement at 3rd in NY.
Liberty hasnt exactly shown an interest in upping the Braves payroll.
Funny, i’m thinking about the Braves being a World Series candidate, not their payroll.
As a matter of fact I haven’t thought about anybody’s payroll this morning, only what teams are doing things to try and win ballgames and go to the big dance.
Nothing else. Maybe they’ll invent some kind of payroll or best contract awards or world series then maybe you guys can finally celebrate what you like to discuss the most – money and contracts instead of trying to win ballgames.
You can not separate the two.
Sure you can,
I can discuss player moves such as these and talk about their affects on teams involved in pennant races without ever discussing money. If the moves are done then the participants spent what they had to and I’m conscious of it but there’s no need to bring it up when talking about pure baseball competition, you don’t have to if you don’t want to.
Actually Lou in this case you know what’s more telling? Not the contracts but the fact that the Braves did this without raping their farm system.
Agreed but I am on the other side of the argument. I think the D Backs got the better of the deal. I analyzed the trade from my perspective and the Braves gave away too much.
The Braves outfield is now Justin Upton, BJ Upton and Jason Heyward….that’s incredible.
Incredible? Try the best young outfield trio in baseball. I can’t think of one that’s better and has three players that young and with so much upside.
I can’t believe they also got D’Backs to throw Chris Johnson into the deal, not a bad righthanded hitter who had an .824 OPS last year, higher than Prado actually.
Joe, Johnson’s OPS+ was just 1 point higher than Prado’s. And Prado has the much better track record. Still, it was a good pickup for the Braves and they do have a formidable OF, as well as a great bullpen. However, I think their rotation is suspect. I don’t think they are the equal of the Nats.
Oh I totally agree, wasn’t knocking Prado by the way, but only pointing out that getting Johnson back softens the blow considerably and while Prado walks after 13, Johnson under team control 4 more years.
Their bullpen is the best in baseball, maybe one of the best in the last ten years but lets see how they do from paper to results in 2013.
Their rotation, not solid, but if things break right and Teheran comes up and meets expectations, they are well positioned.
Joe – I think you forgot about Duda/Kirk/Baxter when making that statement about “best young OF”
I give the edge to Trumbo, Trout, Hamilton as top current OF but these guys are gonna be a mets fans nightmare for years to come!
Actually, looking at the stats, did the Braves get any better (focusing on the two key pieces).
Upton:
2011 .289/.369/.529 31 HR 88RBI 39 2b 21 SB 126K
2012 .280/.355/.43017 HR 67RBI 24 2b 18 SB 121 K
Prado:
2012 .301/.359/.438 10 HR 70RBI 42 2B 17SB 69 K
Yes you’re right it’s a terrible deal for the Braves. They have no idea how to run that organization. Holy crap! This guy is something else.
Your personal attacks aside, it was a question?
But then again, attacks are all you seem capable of since I never see anything productive posted from you.
And every team makes bad deals.
The Braves as far as development have an incredible track record, in terms of trades, sometimes no so much.
What…?
Justin Upton is 25, and it can be argued that not only is he NOT in his prime, but that last year was a down year for him.
Chris Johnson is not Martin Prado, but this is huge for the Braves. He holds the place at 3B and can basically hit for a decent average and drive 15 HRs out of the ballpark. Yes, he strikes out often, is not defensively versatile, and does not steal as many bases. I understand that. I still think the Braves could resign Prado next season if they really wanted to, which would effectively make the D-Backs look like losers in this trade.
If you cancel those two out, Justin Upton is a potential 25 HR/20 SB in any given season.
You were using offensive stats only, so that’s what I would go with…
Upton’s 162 game average: .278/.357/.475 24 HRs 80 RBIs 18 SB
They got better. At the least, Upton has the potential to be a star, and a down year from him still provides value and presence in a lineup.
Actually 2012 mirrors Upton’s stats in 2010. So it could be argued that the 2011 was a misnomer of a year for him. He seems to be up and down, up and down….all while playing in a hitters park.
Will Prado put up some monster numbers in AZ?
Yeah, I know Upton’s splits aren’t the best in the world. But he isn’t completely paltry on the road, and can perhaps improve.
Prado is likely in line for a great season in AZ, especially with the way he hits, but he’s only under control there for 1 year.
Johnson has 4 more years under team control, and Upton 3.
The deal obviously isn’t won just on paper, but I think I would say they made the smart move considering they could’ve lost Prado next year regardless.
Task, if i was the moderator, you would’ve been ban right in the spot for that asinine comment…..
Yeah tell me that if J Upton puts up another 17/68 year like he did 2 of the last three years in AZ.
On the surface if these are the names involved you have to wonder if Arizona fans will be happy with this trade.It will be interesting to hear why Towers did this trade.
So if HBO does a season 3 of “The Franchise” They have some interesting choices. Following the Braves & the Upton brothers down in Atlanta or go Hollywood with the Dodgers or back to where it all started with the Giants.
Kudos to the Braves. Great trade. Wish we could’ve competed on this seemingly ‘B+’ package for Upton / Johnson. i suppose Parnell, Murphy, Flores, Mazzoni, Gorski would’ve been ‘close’. But whatever.
And didn’t Julio Teheran have a setback year last year in AAA following a great one in ’11? Wheeler looks better. And Familia & Mejia may be close to par with the guy. Let’s not wax ourselves up in a dither about other teams’ top prospcets and dismiss ours all the time. Like we dismissed Niese’s value all winter long. And R.A.’s for that matter…
I don’t know if the Diamondbacks were hosed that bad … Martin Prado is a pretty damned good player.
Delgado was pretty highly regarded not too long ago and Spruil is a top 10 prospect.
What’s so great about Upton?
Over the past 6 seasons Prado has a better avg & obp, he strikes out less, has a WAY better BB/K ratio and he plays a pretty good 3B … Prado also had one less SB than Upton last season. Sure Upton is younger and can slug but he also played in one of the extreme hitter’s parks in the league.
Prado could hit 25 homers in that launching pad.
Upton and Prado might actually be a wash (offensively) if you consider park factor.
I actually think it’s a pretty fair trade from both sides. I think the Braves took a little more risk than the Dbacks but that’s also because the Dbacks had already tanked their relationship with Upton so they didn’t have as much to lose.
I know hindsight is also just hindsight but imagine how much better the package would have been if they had traded Upton LAST off-season.
http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=3312&position=2B/3B/OF&page=0&players=5222
Oh I already posted their averages above. There isn’t a lot of difference there but we all know that with Upton you are paying for potential. Prado most likely is what he is and Upton we aren’t even sure what he is yet. Also factoring in having Upton signed longer and getting Johnson I think it evens the trade out. As I said though, I think the Braves took a lot more risk.
You hit on all the points right here, man.
– They’re paying for potential, with Prado already establishing the type of player he is.
– Johnson 4 years / Upton 3 years team control.
– Braves are taking a risk here, but it’s pretty calculated. And they managed to hold onto Teheran.
Every time I see Teheran, I think Iran.
Every time I see Teheran, I think Iran”
Great analogy…..
Agree Prado is underated but they also got Chris Johnson who hit .281 with 15 hrs and 76 rbi’s last year. He is only 27 and not to shabby
The Braves have the best young outfield in baseball. B.J. is the one with the least potential at this point. Upton is still young and improving, Heyward is even younger and improving too. 3B becomes a problem for them, but they’re joining the MLB new norm of platooning players when you don’t have a credible everyday starter. I don’t think they’re too worried about it because that might be the only hole in the lineup once McCann get back.The rotation is good, the bullpen’s even better. We all have hopes for the best for our Mets, the Braves and Nats have hope and a credible reality.
Looking at some of this comments made me wanna vomit.. The braves got better, end of story…………..
I love how you express opinions like they are statements of fact.
Saying the Braves got better is nothing more than your view, one that will be proved or disproved this season.
Everyone was saying the Marlins got better last off season….oops seems like those who were stating those facts missed the boat.
Braves added CF B.J. Upton, RF Justin Upton, 3B Chris Johnson, RP Jordan Walden, C Gerald Laird, re-signed SP Tim Hudson and added UT Reed Johnson to the bench.
Keep saying they got worse. The more you say it, the more true it becomes. Or something like that.
LMAO!!!!
This guy is insane…. if anything it shows how committed he really is to defend alderson at all cost.
Ah there is the agenda: you hatred of Alderson.
Sorry to disappoint you Alex, but this entire conversation has nothing to do with Alderson nor the Mets. This is about the Braves and whether they improved.
And you are losing your touch….you forgot to knock Wright in this conversation.
For that to be factual:
BJ Upton is an upgrade over Bourne
J Upton and Johnson are an upgrade over Prado and Jones
Walden an upgrade over Hansen
Resigned a 38 year old ace who is an upgrade over a 37 year old ace.
It all might be true but then again it might not be.
common problem whenever a guy gets brought in. People tend to only look at the new guys, and forget to deduct the outflow.
so yes, in the case of the Braves, jones, Prado and Bourn are significant losses.
actually, same thing for payroll. Many people only look at the new spending, ignoring the payroll that is already locked in, or dropped off.
What differenceoes it make if they got better not they were already better than us and they sure didn’t do anything to hurt that with this deal!
Wow, Just Wow… How come you don’t say the yankees to use your example? The yankees in 2009 got teixeira and CC sabathia to the same group of players that won 89 games the previous year, the result was a WS, but of course, you won’t use them because it doesn’t fit… Your agenda!
Are you serious? Compare this to the Yankee signings.
Okay lets look at it.
CC
2006 12-11 3.22
2007 19-7 3.21 CYA
2008 17-10 2.70
Tex
2006 .282/33/110
2007 .306/30/105
2008 .308/33/121
J Upton
2010 .273/17/69
2011 .289/33/88
2012 .280/17/67
How on earth are you going to compare the 3 years leading up to the Yankees signing Tex and CC (especially Tex’s years) to Upton? The reason the comparison isnt made is not because of an agenda but because it does not hold.
Are you seriously this stupid?????? I am not comparing the signing, just the players they added, are you forgetting the braves acquire both uptons, added a great stud to fortified their bullpen in Walden added Chris Johnson,a good backup catcher in Laird, and Johnson to the bench, to a team with a good yougn nucleous of player, you cannot be serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP!!! You should be send to the Drunk Tank for being this naive!
That’s okay Alex he tried to tell me i was comparing the 1975 Reds to the current Braves all because i said that having multiple players who strike out a lot does not mean you won’t have a good team that can win the World Series. My point was the sum being greater than the individual parts. I made that clear but it didn’t matter to him.
Go ahead with the personal attacks it is okay. You were the one who brought up the Yankees so you wanted to compare because you think there is some agenda. The truth is I just dispelled that notion by showing how the two situations are not comparable.
As for the Braves, they lost Chipper, Prado, Hanson, and Bourne. While they brought in other players who on paper look like good moves, you are presuming it is an upgrade. J nor BJ Upton are not total studs. Look at their stats. Everyone is making like they just acquired a bunch of future HOFers.
Plus there is still the matter of pitching which the starting rotation is suspect at best. So lets allow them to play before awarding the WS trophy to the Braves. There is the possibility that the Braves do not even make the playoffs this year.
You are something else, my point was that not every team that adds players to better their roster is the marlins, there are teams that actually get better and/or even win the WS. but go ahead and keep bashing the braves, it’s making you look really good…..
You are correct on that. And the flip side is also correct. Not every team that makes changes to improve actually does.
Right now it is all on paper. And you are taking the approach it is guaranteed the Braves are a better team right now than they were last year. I am not ready to commit to that idea especially with their starting pitching having so many question marks and the fact that the Upton brothers arent Aaron and Mays. Dont forget 17HR/68 RBI is not much better than Duda (yes I know J Upton is a much better defensive player).
The Braves and the Nats have teams that are young and will be around for the next five years. Best thing for Mets to do right now is keep building the system. I expect the Mets to compete with them next season.
NEXT SEASON??????????????
Seriously Peter, no offense, but lets see how the Mets make out battling the Marlins for the basement, before we say that we’ll be battling two of the elite teams in the NL, let alone the NL East.
“Wren has got the Braves positioned for another dynasty run in the NL East and he didn’t blow up his farm to do it.”
Can Joe D or somebody send the Mets current GM this memo? This makes me think back to the last 2 off seasons where Balderson, in my opinion, purposely TANKED the off season because in his opinion why bother if the team is going nowhere. Yet early both of those offseasons the Mets gave their fans a reason to spend money because they played well all the way to the All Star break. Who knows what would have happened if the Mets had a capable person running the show who knew how to use his little resources wisely AND compete at the same time as keeping an eye out for making moves in case the team did fail. Instead he did nothing. I guess purposely losing for that almighty draft pick is better than trying to give the fans a reason to come to the park and spend money.
Splits, FanGraphs tells you upton and prado are the same players, color skin, makes too much $, he’s not worth it etc… Some of those comments makes me wonder if you guys really like losing year after year…
Bad news and good news! The braves trading for Upton and reuniting him with his brother can
only be a positive thing for them and the good news is the braves won’t resign Bourne and
thats one less team bidding for his services!! By the way no matter how you slice it the braves
just got better!!
This outfield has to be in the top three now is all of baseball. The Angels are probably number one, the Dodgers with Either, Kemp and a healthy Crawford are likely in the mix as well.
Mets fans dreamed of signing or trading for a quality outfielder all offseason, we wanted at least one.
Instead we get none, and the Braves get both Uptons. The Mets never fail to disappoint
Dan don’t tell that to the likes of taskmaster who are actually criticizing the Braves this morning.
You need to learn the difference between questioning and criticizing.
You need to learn the difference between individual stats and the sum of a team’s parts.
Like what? You mean like LAA, Marlins, and Red Sox last year? They have great stats but missed the playoffs. Or are you referring to the Giants who brought in a bunch of 2nd tier or no tier players to go with some hot pitchers and Posey and Sandoval?
What is your point? That a bunch of guys with mediocre stats are suddenly better combined. If that is the case, the Mets combined ought to be really good because individually, for the most part, they havent done much.
WOW! SO the Sandy apologists here are saying that acquiring Justin Upton for Prado and a few unspectacular minor league pieces is a bad deal for the Braves.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Hilarious! Notice whenever another team makes a move and acquires a player that the Mets have shown interest in and it is reported here by MMO……the same cast of characters are ALWAYS 1ST to post pointing out asinine comments about how this was a bad deal for the other team and a good thing Sandy didnt make the sam move….SMH!
It is pathetic….Prado is a good player but Upton can be great…
The Braves have THREE!!! FIVE TOOL PLAYERS in there Outfield now….The Braves pitchers will love pitching behind that Outfield..
We on the other hand have Andrew Brown,Baxter, Duda, Cowgill, Nieuwenhuis, Hoffman….. SMH….
but but but Leroy, those were all nice under the radar signings!
Bwahahahahahaha!!!!
You cant make this stuff up Bay…Mets fans should be pissed that a team in our division got extremely stronger this year….
Well I remember some fans dreaming of a reunion with Wright and the Upton Brothers well they got it SORT OF lol….Theyll be pounding Wright and the Mets for years if they dont get a real GM in Queens who can improve this embarrassing team…
so in the space of the last couple of days these goons trashed the Delmon Young signing when Vinny B correctly pointed out that he would have been a cheaper version of Scott Hairston but with playoff experience I’ll add. And now some of those clowns are trashing the Braves moves today.
But they love Cowgill, Baxter, Brown, Bixler and the like.
Actually I am on record saying it’s a good deal for both teams with the Braves taking more risk but mostly due to the fact of the corner the Dbacks had already painted themselves into.
LMAO!!!
“Actually I am on record saying it’s a good deal for both teams with the Braves taking more risk but mostly due to the fact of the corner the Dbacks had already painted themselves into.—TRS”
ACTUALLY, I didnt name any names so I take it
1.You felt guilty
or
2.You view yourself as a Sandy Apologist…
Lol….
Nah, when you guys do your grouping thing, you tend to be all encompassing.
Who are you guys???
Sorry….Im not apart of any group or organization…Im an individual
Try again! lol
Oh you mean you haven’t been inducted into the secret core that has meetings at an undisclosed location to bash others?
The CORE salute Leroy… The Desert brings out the sand people.
salutes.
It’s actually salute, on behalf of its members.. Hey, if you and Manti Te’o can create and believe in phantom people, so can i no??
Even if it was a person it would still be salutes. You know us guys who only like people because of their correct English. You could say “as a member of the Core, I salute you.” But you can’t say “the Core salute you”. This lesson is brought to you by the “We love English and that’s why we like Sandy Corporation”, LOL.
1.”We SALUTE YOU” ——sounds good
2.”We SALUTES YOU”—–eh I dunno
I love how you and YOUR “secret group” love to take jabs at Alex when he mentions the CORE.
But you guys seem to always bring it up whenever you come across anyone whom has similar views with Alex, Bayonne, Maniac etc. of the Mets current situation.
Braves, and Nats will win over 95 games and W/C race will come down to second w/c between Dodgers and Giants each over 90 wins.
2015 got move to 2017 this morning… Keep the faith..
How can anyone seriously trash moves like the delmon young, or the hairston and this move by the braves and go goo goo ga ga over the PO’s we added this offseason is just beyond me… This sabergooners and sandy lovers will go beyond reason to defend their american idol and his well spoken english.. It’s sad these days to tell you the truth, what happen to the real mets fans?? You know, the ones who passionately love the team, wanted to win and even though they didn’t suceed still cheer and root for them? instead now it’s all about the GM, their phylosophy and trashing everything and anyone that wants nothing to do with them while defending their every move no matter how ridiculous or pathetic they are…
Again your little putdowns once again exemplifying you lack of ability to articulate an argument. That is not surprising considering the fact that you are defending an indefensible position. What you want done was followed for 2 decades by the Mets with pathetic results.
As for Young and Hairton and winning, come on. Do you think either of those players would make a bit of difference for the Mets and equate to winning?
And questioning whether the Braves got any better is sound logic. Again you seem to think it is defending Alderson because of your intense dislike for him. Okay we get that. But to make the case that the Braves were automatically upgraded and a better team because of these deals, that isnt the case. It could be. We will know when the season plays out. But again, the Marlins and Angels were big winners last year, made substantial moves, and what happened to them.
Nobody is talking about 2 decades. That has nothing to do with anything other than you’re losing the present argument so that’s your backup ammo.
Those last 2 decades have tons of backstories within themselves so drop it.
2 decades????? Bro, guess you’re not that old, the mets have been irrelevant for 43 years of their 50 year history, not sure what you mean by 2 decades, the mets suck throughout their history, so you bringing that up is irrelevant in this case, trust me when i say this, Frank Wren is 1004y089234- 327-81893 469-` better than sandy alderson, you are trying to put down this trade why? Because it makes them better and as it should be makes the mets fans scared that if this deal along with the moves they made during this offseason and the core of young players they have continue to become better, the braves will once again be ruling the NL East for years to come while we left wondering what could’ve been. You’re looking really dumb for trying to bash the braves for this move, despite what that stupid site fangraph tells you, Upton is BETTER than pradoand the braves just got a whole lot better for years to come….
Again you are making like you know what is going to happen. Perhaps we should let them play the game.
As for dominating the NL east for years to come, that could be the case…or it might not. Here is some food for thought: how do you dominate for 5 years when you have a 37 or 38 years old ace? How many years do you think that Hudson is going to pitch? After that, who is their ace? Beachy? Coming off surgery. Medlin? Going 21 straight starts without a loss is not easily reproduced. Teheran? Took a step back. Certainly the Braves have a track record for developing terrific pitching so it is possible. But again, why not hold off on the hand them the title for the next whatever time period.
And unlike many others, I dont value the Uptons as highly as some. While they have a world of potential, their production, thus far is spotty. BJ is streaky as they come while not allows putting forth maximum effort. That could change in Atlanta. Justin is also an up and down case. He could have a revival in Atlanta and finally reach his potential.
Well, let’s put your baseball knowledge on perspective, who has a better path to be good for years to come… The braves or the mets??? Plain and simple, one answer, go ahead and tell me what you truly feel.
Amazing…you just showed how you really do not understand.
It isnt the Braves or the Mets because they are following the exact same path. Draft and sign young players, develop them, develop a core at the ML level, and fill in around the. The difference is the Braves have been doing this for 25 years and the Mets for about 2 minutes.
Of course, if the Mets didnt follow the “we are a big market lets spend because we are in a particular zip code” model and actually developed some top flight talent, perhaps the organization would be contending now. But Wilpon is guys who utilizes the philosophy the core espouses with terrible results.
don’t consider B.J. a stud. Actually consider him a bit of a stiff. But it is a good trade and they are in good shape.
Justin was the one traded…BJ was the FA signing from Tampa.
Here’s what the last couple of days should prove:
What hese Sandy/moneyball/sabermetric goons do is the same exact thing the Mets FO/ownership does before they trade a player. They leak info to the press to put player in bad light w/fans. That is exactly what the Sandy Gooners do – they trash any player that can represent any bad light on Sandy Alderson. Same thing.
why wouldnt a murphy, flores, familia, gorski and another low level prospect have worked?
Well it might have but you have to know that Martin is better than Murphy and the Delgado is considered better than Familia… it’s hard to compare offers because the Mets don’t have a Martin Prado to start with.
Funniest tweet so far.
@BradleyAnkrom
Wren has both Uptons so now he can start building houses and hotels on them.
https://twitter.com/BradleyAnkrom/status/294466628857507840
Can we say that we f**king blew it.
Yes, it´s certainly a nice trade for the Braves. However, unless you believe Upton´s 2011 season is the future and the 2010 and 2012 seasons were totally injury / sophmore jinx related, it´s merely a good and not great deal for them.
The best part for them may be that they get Upton for 3 years of team control vs. Prado at 1 year of team control.
Martin Prado 2010 through 2012 combined:
.290 BA / .339 OBP / .428 SLG / .767 OPS, 12.1 WAR total (maybe due to overvalueing his strong defense)
Prado is a rather underrated player because he neither hit 30 HR or hit .330 in a season. However, he has been a key and very steady component of the ATL offense for several years and will certainly be missed. Especially due to his above average defense at several positions: 3b, lf and even 2b.
Justin Upton 2010 through 2012 combined:
.280 BA / .355 OBP / .430 SLG / .785 OPS, 9.2 WAR total (Upton played in a hitter friendlier homepark)
Delgado is a better arm than Mejia / Familia but lesser than Harvey / Wheeler. That will hurt the Braves depth at least.
The rest of the deal is negligible. Some 2nd tier prospects and subpar defender Chris Johnson who usually only hits vs. LH but could form a solid platoon with Francisco for ATL.
All in all, it´s a no-brainer sort of deal for ATL, based on Upton´s upside and the fact that he´s under control for two more years than Prado.
However, looking at the natural payroll limitations for ATL and the fact that by 2015, this will become a very expensive roster to keep together in a couple of years with free agency or at least expensive arbitration looming for several key pieces.
Arizona again receives a modest haul for a good chip. They must have been really down on Upton for whatever reason.
“The best part for them may be that they get Upton for 3 years of team control vs. Prado at 1 year of team control.”
Silly me for thinking that the best part of this deal is that it puts the Braves in a position to not only make the playoffs but now they have a better chance to go all the way.
That other stuff like team control, blah, blah? That changes from year to year with different players so whatever. But that’s what you guys like to get your rocks off on these days. It’s more important than actual baseball game results on the field.
Justin Upton at 2010 and 2012 levels – even leaving ballpark effects aside – is a lesser player than Martin Prado. Obviously, the upside is huge, but there is a pretty significant risk.
So the question is, how much better than in 2012 will Upton perform in 2013 and beyond ? And keep in mind that the Braves have rarely had a payroll of over 100 to 110 million $ ( if ever). The Upton will make 30 million $ combined in 2014 and 2015 alone. McCann is a free agent after 2013. Heyward & Kimbrel will be arb eligible a year from now and become very expensive very quickly. Add in Uggla, Hudson ( or whoever replaces him in the rotation) and the Braves won’t have a lot of room to add payroll over the next couple of years.
Are they a better team for 2013 – 2015 today than they were yesterday ? Absolutely. However, it’s not as if they just replaced Mike Baxter with Mike Trout. The Mets have enough issues themselves to worry about the Braves or Nats.
hey DrDooby – It’s already being reported that Arizona wants to lock Prado up… so at least they didn’t make this move with the idea that they’d be willing to lose Prado in a year
I know a team forfeits a first round pick for signing Bourn, but what does Atlanta get for losing him? Don’t they get something back?
they get a sandwich pick between the 1st and 2nd round
Hey cheer up the Mets signed Marcum today!!!!!!
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/quiet-justin-upton-not-the-kind-of-intense-player-arizona-diamondbacks-want-trade-to-atlanta-braves-hot-stove-012413
The Diamondbacks want a certain type of player — single-minded, outwardly intense, fierce. Cody Ross is that kind of player. Martin Prado is that kind of player. Upton is not, at least not in the estimation of Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers and manager Kirk Gibson.
“The problem is that he didn’t play with a high level of energy,” said one of Upton’s former teammates who spoke on the condition that he would not be identified. “What I think they want is guys who play with the speed, energy and intensity of the Oregon football team — all out, all the time.
“Justin doesn’t have that kind of attitude; he has a quiet intensity that doesn’t fit the mold of what KT and Gibby seem to want. He plays hard but has to look suave doing it. Slamming into walls isn’t his thing, and they will accept nothing short of all-out sacrifice for the team.”
No one questions Upton’s work ethic, but in the words of one rival executive, “He is not a leader, not an all-out hustle type.”
So, they don’t want a guy who is good enough to make the hard stuff look easy. They want a guy who makes a spectacle of himself?
I have been pretty vocal about not wanting to bring him here, but that whole thing just contradicts itself.
How they describe Upton….reminds me of Beltran and the unfair description and/or label he got tagged with by some Met fans.
And nothing wrong with being compared to Beltran and his approach to playing, IMO. That’s a compliment.
I wanna cry after reading this lol
According to ESPNStats:
* The Upton brothers provide a power upgrade over the men they replace in the Atlanta outfield, Martin Prado and Michael Bourn, but besides home runs, the jump isn’t substantial.
* Martin Prado ranked 10th in the NL in WAR last season (5.4), providing more than twice Upton’s value (2.1). Prado has accumulated 12.1 wins above replacement since 2010. In that span, Upton has 9.2 wins above replacement.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/60169/espn-stats-analyzes-braves-dbacks-swap
It seems contrary to the opinion of some around here, the Braves moves for the Uptons brothers isnt as much of an upgrade as they would like to believe.
There’s a lot of problems with that:
1st, WAR is an incredibly flawed stat for single seasons – It doesn’t measure defense accurately.
2. Justin Upton played the majority of the season with a thumb injury, so his 2012 stats are misleading:
http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-diamondbacks/2012/10/4/3454796/justin-upton-injury-arizona-diamondbacks
3. Upton was 24 last year. There are many players his age that are rookies, and there are many players his age who have yet to have a lot of success. in the MLB. So, think of it this way: Upton is already a two time all star, a sliver slugger, and finished top 5 in the MVP voting at an age when a lot of players are still struggling to have even moderate success in the majors. So, in other words, he’s a stud.
4. He has tremendous potential – He was a 1st overall pick, and a #2 rated prospect in all of baseball for a reason. He has 30+ HR and 20+ SB base potential, and he’s a guy who you can build your team around for years. I don’t think you can say that about Prado can you?
Basically, Prado is a nice complimentary piece, while Upton is a superstar talent that you can build your team around. So, I’d say that the Braves upgraded.
Actually it was comparing both Uptons to Prado and Bourne although the WAR did just mention Prado. That aside, WAR is a stat that many people do depend upon, flawed or not. And, like any metric, as long as it is consistently applied, it does tell something. Sure, Upton is a much better defender than Prado, but the point is this is not a slam dunk win for the Braves in terms of their off season moves.
And I agree with you on potential. The problem is what if it does not develop. BJ Upton is more past the potential stage and into production. His stats are okay but nothing stellar. And Justin, injury aside, had stats that resembled 2010. So where 2010 and 2012 the misleading years or was his “breakout” in 2011 the one. Which is the real Justin Upton year? In addition, a guy with 4 years big league experience is often past the potential stage and showing something. Upton is still a question mark. The guy has had over 2500 ABs in the Big Leagues.
Why are you only going back three years for Justin Upton? Why not four?
Upton’s 162 game average over the last four years:
.286 BA, 26 HR, 87 RBI, 22 SB, 68 BB, and .846 OPS
So, I think those numbers would be the “real” Upton(which is very good), AND Upton has the potential to improve.
Frank Wren was able to:
swap out Michael Bourn for BJ Upton ( improvement )
trade for his brother Justin Upton
acquire a 3B
not lose a 1st round draft pick
and acquire a comp pick when a team signs Bourne
The Braves have the BEST OUTFIELD in baseball
A Stud 1B
A Stud Catcher
A good hitting 2B
If the mets signed BJ and traded for Justin, met fans would merely talk about how the brothers are both attitude problems and clubhouse cancers.
same ol met fans
BROTHERS BEING A VERY IMPORTANT WORD.
Because it seems that the Mets don’t like BROTHERS
The Mets are probably the only team in MLB without a BROTHER.
The Braves have 3 starting in the outfield….That’s why they’ll finish near or in last place for the foreseeable future.
I will ask the Wilpons to take down their fraud tribute to Jackie Robinson…and replace it with a tribute to Cap Anson.