Comments on: Enter Sandy-Man

By: Rich from Lake Como

Rich from Lake Como — Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:07:14 +0000

A brilliant analysis. And you mentioned the word that should fill every Mets fan with hope for the future: “Bankruptcy”.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:34:39 +0000

I go back to the example people use in the Yankees when they talk about tha CORE that came up and helped them win a WS….

That core would not have been as good if not for all the Free Agent stars they had around them to help the be what they became….

Petitte is a great pitcher and why wouldn’t he be he had a bunch of Veterans who were tops in the league sitting next to him on the bench, Helping to tutor and mentor him, make slight corrections, giving advice on how to approach certain batters to make him the great pitcher he has been.

How much did Jeter gain by having a guy like Boggs fielding next to him and to help him perfect his swing and approach at the plate?

Rivera sat on the same Bullpen bench and served as setup man to John Wettland who ended his 12 year career with 330 Saves…

Having Kids is great but you can’t get everything from them if there are no seasoned and well respected and established Veterans to mentor them and help them get through the adversity every kid will face and have to overcome…

And since most of the kids we are expecting to be our core are destined to be promoted by the end of this year NOW would be a good time to start getting them some of that Vet talent (that yes costs a little more money) but pays off dividends not just in thier own contribution but in what they help those kids contribute as well!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:18:55 +0000

Well Upton and Bourne were (Bourne still is I believe) and while signing one might have cost us a pick You can’t say it wouldn’t be worth giving up a maybe 4 years from now for a sure thing….

The GMs who do well in this league succeed on multiple tracks and do not have to sacrifice MLB for MiL to create thier winning team.
They don’t have to spend a lot of money either but they do spend when it is to get a player they have no chance of developing and promoting in the next 3 years from thier MiL System…

But forget the big names for a second and lets look at what we have….
If lets say we are a .500 team with a Hairston, wouldn’t we be much better with a Victorino (13Mil) trolling CF than Kirk or Valdespin or the next Torres we throw out there?
Wouldn’t for that MEASLY sum be better than having to platoon the two guys we have signed to MiL contracts that are only getting MiL contracts for a good reason and would not that extra contribution towards an Average or above average player make that .500 that much better?

For some reason there are people here who seem to think if it’s not a 20Mil per year superstar your signing them it’s not worth signing unless he will sign an MiL contract or plays for bargain bin prices for a year hoping something falls from the sky during that year that makes resigning the bandaid no longer neccesary…

When determining what moves to make it should be based on will what you can get IMPROVE on what you got? Sure a bourne would make the biggest impact while Hairston will maybe get you to .500 (granted that we didn’t get there with him last year).

Fill the holes you have by improving on what you have…Cause any improvement is better than signing a guy who makes you worse.

Lets face facts we didn’t have to spend an awful lot to improve on guys like Torres and even Hairston.
All it would take is getting off this notion that NOT spending money is more important than improving the team at each position thats possible.

Saving the money for some SUNNY day does nothing to create the sunshine that makes some say it’s time to spend…It just keeps raining and while we are sitting around waiting for the sun all the good we DID manage to collect rusts and crumbles.

By: TJ

TJ — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:48:10 +0000

Metsie,
We are basically in agreement here. Time will tell on the RA trade but a top 2 catching propect was tough to pass on, even though I preferred to keep RA. I didn’t see any RF power bats available this winter, so I am not sure they missed any opportunity. Since there are still guys out there, affordable even to this ownership, that can improve the team to a give/take .500, they need to go get them. Be competitive on Morse but refrain from dealing too much for him. Make this team as good as possible to avoid being a joke, keep some fan interest in 2013, allow the kids to develop in a professional/competitve environment, and give yourself a puncher’s chance, albeit a long-shot, at making a run should things not pan out as expected for some of the better NL east teams.

By: TJ

TJ — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:41:45 +0000

Matt,
I agree with Metsie here. First, a 75 win team is closer to competing the next season than a 65 win team. Second, as Metsie points out, it is important not to screw up the kids, and a hapless 65 win team risks screwing up the kids more. Everyone knows Hairston is a platoon guy and not changing the dynamic of the team, but he is a pro and a veteran, and they need a few of these to compete. So long as they don’t sacrifice the future by dealing key pieces, or committing too much future money to guys likely to decline, neither of which they will do, they need to focus on maximizing wins. Also, it keeps the fans interested and potentially helps recruit FAs. I know, guys go for the most money, but some guys are looking to join a team that can win and a 65 team eliminates itself from signing some of those guys.

By: tlagee

tlagee — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:18:11 +0000

Matt-

I hope you’re right – but IMHO -at this stage, the team is so bad and the situation so dire that the only direction we can head is the right direction.

Again – great research – great read – keep them coming!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:45:35 +0000

Well Matt I say it does…..

Tell you why….

Of your starting rotation there will be Niese, Harvey, Gee and very likely Wheeler before the season ends….

AT BEST (if they get every decision in wins) the average pitcher would get 13 wins each.

And closer to reality they will get about 7-9 wins at most….

Thats the kind of record that screws up young and impressionable kids….
The kind of situation that makes them do things they should not do but do because the team behind them won’t help and they think they have to do it all by themselves….

Generation K rings a bell here…..

Kids are great to have and great Kids are even better but you can quickly turn a great kid into a bust by putting him into a CAN’T WIN situation and have him trying to do things all by himself.

You could wind up with 4 headcases like Pelfrey or as I mentioned the same result as Generation K, a lot of injured kids who got injured because they were constantlly trying to get 27 Outs on every pitch because they felt they HAD to in order to get wins that would get them a long career in the MLB…..Or at least to keep them in the MLB

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:31:25 +0000

Well TJ I would have NO PROBLEM with trading the Cy Young guy if we got more than just a catcher out of it and got a young OF prospect instead of the Pitcher….

As to your point about a .500 team…If we got that (and for argument sake lets say we did)…
Then isn’t it MUCH more important to go and get that Power Hitting RFer that can put that .500 team into the playoffs not just next year but maybe this year as well?

We are so concerned about wasting money on a player who could make the next three seasons interesting and say don’t waste it because we can’t win and should wait until we have a young core in place….
Well I say that Young Core is here! Why aren’t we just as worried about wasting thier youth and years of control all over a paranoia over a guy getting 15 Mil a year?

Everyone is under the assumption that we rebuilt the Minors but really did we? Who will be there in September? Wheeler and d’Arnaud won’t…SNydergaard will and so will nimmo do you really want to wait two more years for them to be ready and lose two years of age and control on guys like Niese, Davis, Tejada, Harvey, WHeeler and d’Arnaud?

So if you really believe that signing scrap heap guys can get us to .500 and truly believe having kids under control on the MLB roster is the key to succeess then you should be chomping at the bit to get that Impact Power RH RFer on this team to not waste what we have but you seemingly still want to wait till we get what is already here….

By: Infusion of $160 Million Gives Mets a Chance to Spend - Page 3 - NY Sports Day Forums

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:39:16 +0000

[...] Enter Sandy-Man | Mets Merized Online Seems like this article summarizes the full picture well.. I am of the opinion Sandy was brought in to stabilize upper management..whether he was fully aware how poor Wilpons were when he took job..debatable..but if if he did..people may question as to why he took job..maybe he thought if he can make lemonade out of urine..he will be perceived as genius..and prove that in his mind one can win with a sub 100 mil payroll in ny..?? Problem is..not at 50 mil.. __________________ ACCEPTED TRUTH: That I will be ROYALLY F**CKED OVER by EVERY TEAM I ROOT FOR (METS, JETS & KNICKS) !!! Citifield & Mets…the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE" [...]

By: Trs86

Trs86 — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:37:38 +0000

Of course because it will put in in the pennant race because it’s clear they are trying…

By: vinnie papandrea

vinnie papandrea — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:37:01 +0000

You think signing Valverde and Lohse will bring back fans, Seriously

By: matthew balasis

matthew balasis — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:00:25 +0000

Does it really matter that much if we’re talking the difference between a 65 win team and a 75 win team? Especially if the 65 win team allows us to play more of our own youngsters and bags us a better draft pick? We’re not going to win the pennant in any event. might as well make hay.

By: TJ

TJ — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:19:25 +0000

Metsie,
Toilet paper may be a more appropriate for the Astros roster. Even the biggest Met fan can see that they are not building a World Series team in 2013. All I am saying is that the right combination of these players can provide a roster with decent MLB caliber talent, decent, meaning around a .500 team. That is important to this franchise, and worth spending $20 million on, as an investment in fielding a decent team in 2013 as well as beyond. They will compete as well as the core allows them, but I want these kids coming to a team that is not a joke. While we had a Cy Young winning in 2012, the pen was a joke, the catching position was not MLB caliber, and most of the OF was not MLB caliber. By raising those spots to MLB caliber, and integrating some high-level prospects along the way, this team can step up to 80ish wins and move on, like the 2005 team did, like the 2011 Nationals did, and like others did. And, in 2013, the team can be more watchable for the fans. It is part of the process. Would you rather see them make no more moves, and watch a 65 win team sprinkled with young players that are AAAA caliber and will almost certainly never develop into keepers?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:54:08 +0000

“Why can’t I”

Well because there is no way to sleep long enough for it to last without dying? LOL

I have no problems with people wanting to live on hope and dream everything is going to be ok….

I just have a problem when they get on MY case for not buying into thier fantasy and proclaiming how great things ARE when they don’t even believe they ARE good just MIGHT or WILL be….

I’m sure things WILL be alright in time….
Right after they stop doing whatever it is they have been doing the last three offseasons.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:39:58 +0000

Ad those names make a team that couldn’t win with a Cy Young Pitcher worth watching? Really?

Either you mistyped or was foreshadowing that list when you typed in your Nick because all those names FIT TP as in Toilet Paper….
I wouldn’t wipe my butt with half of them!

By: Hotstreak

Hotstreak — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:11:12 +0000

Someday
Again there will be a winning team in Met Land

I dare to dream
Why can’t I

I’ll wish upon a star
That current ownership clouds are far behind

Someday
A Championship banner will fly

There will be a Ticket Tape Parade
I dare to dream
Why can’t I

By: TP

TP — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 04:02:56 +0000

Potential FA signings – SP – Marcum, Pavano, Young
BP – Lindstrom, Farnsworth, Capp
OF – Hairston
Potential trade candidates – OF – Morse, Fowler, Crisp
SP – Capuano, Harang
Minor League invites – BP – Feliciano, Oviedo
OF – Morgan
Make 1 trade, priortize OF, if none can reasonably be acquired, sign Hairston and deal for either Capuano or Harang. Fallback is Pavano, Young. Sign one of 3 BP FAs above. This should give the team a shot at .500 season if Santana returns to 1st half 2012 form and Ike progresses in cleanup spot.

By: Gregg

Gregg — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:45:25 +0000

One of the best and most insightful articles I’ve read on here. Well done.

By: jon

jon — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:33:48 +0000

Nice article Matt. Despite some of the satire,, I do believe Alderson is only here because Bud would like to save his good friend Fred’s ship from sinking. Not sure thats possible as long as that putz Jeffy is next in line. I do think while we could be headed in the right direction, we will be losing for many more years. People who say look to 2014 are really rooting with their hearts. I guess if you’re a Met fan you don’t have much unless you have hope. Now given Sandy’s failures in San Diego (at least his failure to build good teams), i am not sure he has it in him to get it done here. For me Moneyball is a by product of steroids and with better drug testing homers are aren’t coming as easily so who cares if we walk all that much. And the resulting bad defense just loses games especially in the National League.

By: Old School Mets Fan

Old School Mets Fan — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:29:01 +0000

The Mets have taken a 74 win team and traded its best starter. They have done nothing to upgrade (or even really maintain for that matter), outfield, bullpen or bench. Pitchers and catchers report in 36 days. People compare the team to ’83 but record-wise this team has the potential to exceed the ’93 team in losses.