Disappointed In Hall Balloting; Biggio Snubbed

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• Alex68 January 10, 2013 at 8:13 am

  I believe it is irresponsible and an abuse of power to exercise that logic”

  My point exactly, writers shouldn’t be voting AT ALL!!! Most of you write crap about baseball anyways and once writers don’t like a player for his attitude then that player despite being great player and possibly a great human being is screwed because writers don’t like him personally, Elected HOF should be the ones making the votes, not writers who most of you have NEVER grab a bat in your hand and don’t understand the hard work and dedication into this, but of course, having a HOF vote gives writers the power to say i’ll do what i want with you so you better be nice to me no matter if i am a jerk. It is stupid for the baseball committee to allowe “Writers” to vote for players, and upon hearing about writers doing whatever the F*** they wanted with their vote says how flaw the system is. I’d say revoke each one of the writers vote and put HOF to vote for who should be in the HOF or not, do not let the HOF commitee become a joke, i mean, can you imagine a stupid ass writer not voting for Ken Griffey Jr? just because he doesn’t vote a player in the first ballot? But hey, that’s not having an ego or being a jerk or anything like that…
  • Alex68 January 10, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Look at this stupidity from heyman, who IMO is a F’ing as*hole regarding his Piazza vote: “I delayed my ‘yes’ vote on the greatest hitting catcher of all-time to await more evidence,” Heyman wrote of Piazza. “It has been reported he’s writing a book, so perhaps he will shed some light.”
    Delay? Wait for a book??? WTF kinda explanation is that???? You either vote him in or not!! It’s downright embarrassing, how can a player who ultimately launched 427 home runs, including a record 396 as a catcher, finishes his 16-year career with 1,335 RBIs, a .308 batting average and a .377 on-base percentage NOT BE IN THE HOF??? Because he had acne in his back??? F’ing idiots…
    • taskmaster4450 January 10, 2013 at 8:35 am

      I doubt Bonds and other know cheaters would have fared better with the HOF members voting. But I agree, get it out of the hands of the baseball writers. It is evident many are just abusing the power they are entrusted with.
    • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 8:59 am

      I completely agree on Piazza, the defnition of a first ballot guy.
• taskmaster4450 January 10, 2013 at 8:39 am

  Trivia of the day:

  What do 3,000 hits, 660 2b, almost 300 HR, 400+ SB, a .280 BA, and 3 GG get you?

  If you are Craig Biggio in this day and age, a HOF snub.

  By the way compare these stats:

  2500 HIts, 449 2B, 268 HR, 680 SB, .271 BA, 5GG

  These are the numbers for Joe Morgan.

  The bottom line is Biggio, PIazza, and Morris belong in the HOF.
  • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 8:52 am

    Of course Biggio had 2 seasons more worth of PA and also played in a time where offense was king. Morgan also tallied 5 GG and 2, yes 2 MVP and played in 4 WS.
    Biggio’s peak 5 years: .308 .404 .477 .881 MVP 16, 10, 0, 4, 5.
    Morgan’s peak 5 years: .303 .431 .499 .930 with 2 MVP and 3 more top 10 MVP votes
    Comparing those two? Sorry.

    Biggio was a great player but not elite in my mind.
    • taskmaster4450 January 10, 2013 at 9:03 am

      Playing in WS? What does that have to do with anything? It just means that Morgan was on better teams that Biggio. Using your logic, I guess Kiner and Banks were not elite because they didnt appear in WS. That has nothing to do with an individuals performance. If anything, the fact that Morgan was on much better teams with better players around him might actually detract from his accomplishments some. Hell Bernies Williams played in a lot of WS and he isnt a HOFer.

      As for the MVP, again you are into a popularity contest. Winning them is good but we all know snubs do occur. Same with GG.

      And offensive era? That would account for differences in HR but what about BA? Did they try to hit less in Morgan’s time. Yes he had less ABs but he would have needed to hit about .500 to catch up to Biggios hit total in the two years he was short.

      So to say Morgan and Biggio are that different is misleading. Personally, I do agree that Biggio isnt elite but I also believe that about Morgan.
      • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 9:08 am

        Task we are talking about voters here and yes MVP and WS matter. It doesn’t mean it’s fair but they matter.
      • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 9:10 am

        Also you mentioned that MVP was a popularity contest, what do you think the HOF vote is?
• Cleon January 10, 2013 at 8:42 am

  I couldn’t disagree with you more re: Biggio. While 3000 hits has been an automatic ticket to Cooperstown, Biggio was a very good player but hardly elite. In a 20 year career he only once surpassed 200 hits in a season. He is really more of a compiler who average 153 hits a season over 20 years.
  With this being said, I personally wouldn’t vote for him if I had a vote, but in this era of “tainted” candidates, I think it helps him and he will get in sooner rather than later.
  • Alex68 January 10, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Cleon, etite in what way?? How many players nowadays last 20 years? Let alone avg 150+ hits per season as you say? Mind you, this man played 3 different positions C, 2B and OF for the good of the team, this man was as selfish as they come, he was a very good player, what else do you want? He got on base, he hits for doubles, occasional power, good glove, the ultimate grinder, it’s not all about numbers you know.. and if we go by numbers, then why is piazza not in?? These idiots of writers are as much aholes as players and even worse and should be strip of their ability to vote players into the HOF
  • taskmaster4450 January 10, 2013 at 9:06 am

    So then using your argument, Joe Morgan doesnt belong in the HOF. Over a 22 year career, he only amassed 2500 hits. Forget about 200 hits, his highest hit total was 167. In fact, he had only 3 seasons where he had more hits than Biggios 153 average.
• Kay January 10, 2013 at 8:51 am

  I’m wonder what will happen the day D. Jeter is eligible. Will he too be scrutinized the same as Piazza was.

  He did play on the same team with Andy Dandy Petitte, ARoid, Clemens, etc………….
  • taskmaster4450 January 10, 2013 at 9:07 am

    Jeter scrutinized? That is a laugh. Jeter will dance in with an absurd amount of the vote. Reporters love him and nobody has ever questioned anything about him (although perhaps it is warranted). Jeter is baseballs golden child.
    • Kay January 10, 2013 at 9:13 am

      That’s exactly what I’m thinking too!
    • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 9:17 am

      I am no Jeter fan but I am sure he is a HOF.
      • Kay January 10, 2013 at 9:26 am

        Oh agreed, but will he get snubbed the first year like others is more my question. If some used speculation as a reason for not voting Piazza the same “should” apply, but we can almost count on it won’t
        • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 9:29 am

          I think we Jeter being a little later, all be it slight, he will avoid that controversy.
• Metro12 January 10, 2013 at 9:01 am

  John, I agree with all your points. And I think the voting system should be changed. Maybe go exclusively to a more select committee that can include some baseball writers and also current HOF members. But I’d be interested to hear what you would do to change the voting system, seeing how you are a member of the BBWAA.

  I am disappointed Piazza didn’t get in and feel he was “tainted” by being included on the same ballot with Clemens and Bonds. Had he been on the ballot last winter, I think he might have squeaked in.
• Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 9:30 am

  Man did Steve Phillips ever get it right:
  “He was the best offensive catcher in the history of the game and to lump him in with [Roger] Clemens and [Barry] Bonds is insulting,” Phillips said last night by phone. “So he had acne on his back. That’s ridiculous. He was guilty by association because he was big and strong. He worked harder than any other player.”
• TJ January 10, 2013 at 11:25 am

  John,
  I don’t like the witch hunt aspect of this year’s voting at all, but, I do not agree with the opinion that anyone was “snubbed” by omission on the first ballot, even despite the overewhelming statistical evidence for certain players. The system allows for 15 years of consideration, and the hall is filled with many players that did not make it on the first ballot or for several years afterwards. Otherwise, this claim suggests that anyone did not get in in the first year eligible but got in in subsequent years was snubbed. That doesn’t sound logical to me. Specifically regarding Biggio, his numbers are very impressive, no doubt, and I am not saying he shouldn’t get in. Overall, compare numbers from era to era is not always straight forward. The automatic plateaus of 3,000 hits and 500 HR, and 300 wins, with or without steriods, can possibly change over time, if the rate of players achieving these statistics increases significantly.
• Alex68 January 10, 2013 at 11:46 am

  Here’s what that POs Heyman wrote back in 2011 to what he actually did in the vote:

  http://deadspin.com/5974837/jon-heyman-just-cant-make-up-his-mind-about-barry-bonds?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
  • Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Agreed
    “In just two short years, Heyman went from refusing to, “sit in moral judgement of another human being” to not wanting to, “reward the cheats.” So what gives? “
• Trs86 January 10, 2013 at 11:51 am

  Loduca, lol
  “Paul LoDuca, quoted in the Daily News: “Once again, tell the Voters to strap on the gear for 9 innings and put the numbers up Mike Piazza did. I don’t care if he used rocket fuel. … All those voters who never strapped on a jock strap … should take a vote of which owners were complaining during that era. NONE. … I took PEDs and I’m not proud of it, but people that think you can take a shot or a pill and play like the legends on that ballot need help.”
  • srt January 10, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Regarding LoDuca’s comments: when you’re right, you’re right.