Did feel it necessary to include them because they first became Met prospects under Omar and then sent up. If we’re talking about a minor league system during the prior general manager’s term, all his history should be looked at. Same will be with the GM who succeeds Sandy – Wheeler and d’Arnaud would already be on the team and the legacy of Sandy’s minor league work should include them as well.

Fair enough?

I like Harvey, and I think nobody is suggesting the Minaya tenure brought 0 young players up. I think it’s a matter of the gap that exists where you see the best prospect Minaya’s tenure brought in was who? Maybe Niese right now? Okay, I like Niese but that’s not exactly an amazing feat. It could be Davis if he puts an entire season together…

It’s about quantity OF quality.

I cannot sit here and brag about guys like Duda when they are part of the problem right now.

I think when people downplay the Mets farm they also recognize that for 3 years out of Minaya’s 6, he didn’t have a 1st round draft pick.

We can talk about guys like Kirk, Murphy, Duda, Parnell all you want – but they are all flawed players and on a very good team they may have a tough time keeping a job.

If we forget that Minaya isn’t the one making all the draft picks and just say everybody drafted or signed via IFA are his… then I’d say his best picks were

Niese, Pelfrey, Smith, Gee, Murphy, Duda, Ike, Kirk, Harvey

Pelf was mishandled at a young age
Smith was traded away in a terrible trade

That leave you with Niese, Gee, Duda, Ike, Kirk, Murphy and Harvey then you add in Tejada… that’s over 6 years.

I’m sorry but that is not exactly an impressive list as of right now. We all hope it gets better but the fact is it’s not that good. It may not be god awful as much react, but it’s certainly not brag worthy.

“When we first got here — and I’m not going to name any names — but you could see that things weren’t the way they were supposed to be,” Kline said. “When Riz hired Doug Harris and all of his men, I realized … we were in a different element. There was an energy level and the positive things [the instructors] were saying to the players. ”

Paul was under no obligation to say those things then or now.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120201&content_id=26545734&c_id=mlb

One for Things they like and another for things they don’t.
Injuries don’t matter until they matter

Fonzie constantly harping about the 2009 team only 79 wins and not accepting Injuries as part of the reason why then using injury to explain Heyward who only missed 30 games not nearly as many as Reyes and Beltran missed….

Xtreeme is not all that good at being fair to Met players too….

Jessup is a bit better at being consistent but he has his few moments as well….
I don’t exactly remember what he said but I do remember him thinking Ike was unproven…Well 32 HRs is about as proven as you can get in the MLB….And while his BA was low thats only because of the early slump that without he hits right around where the great Heywards BA sits…

I said they figured him out in YEAR TWO!
They he adjusted and had a reasonably good year…Not MASSIVE mind you….
Slightly below .270 with 27 HRs and those RBI…

If you were following this back and forth between X and me as far back as the make or break Duda thread you would have seen he asked me what would Duda have to do and I said

.260 25+ HRs to remain in the MLB (LF or 1B)
.270 25+ HRs to remain in LF

Right around where Heyward did last year isn’t it?

And I don’t care how old he is….I’m not the guy who sends guys who perform away based on thier age…

In the MLB his age won’t matter if he hits more HRs and for higher average than Heyward…Especially if he hits 40 HRs like I think he is capable of doing.

Pujols is older than Heyward too…Which one you drafting first on your team?
And don’t change the subject to money just to avoid answering…Cause MONEY is just the manifestation of the MLB saying your worth having more than another…

He’s 23 years old… I mean you’re talking about a kid still and he’s done more in his career than Duda has who will be 27. That’s a huge, huge difference.

Duda will never win a gold glove, Duda will never steal 20 bases. So there are 2 things Duda can never do to be as good as Heyward.

All you’re basing it on is a HR #, and even that – Heyward almost 4 years younger has hit more HR than Duda. So the likelihood of Heyward hitting 40 is better than Duda.

It’s not even close in terms of talent, I’m sorry. And this idea about pitchers figuring Heyward out – how come it doesn’t apply to Duda?

Didn’t Duda do much better in his first 100 games than his next 120? So how can you say they figured Heyward out but not Duda?

Duda is not in Heywards class. I’m not shocked you’d think that though. You’re the same guy who said Reyes is better than Rickey Henderson due to his BA being 7 points higher and the same guy who thinks Beltran is better than Ken Griffey Jr and the same guy who said Greg Maddux didn’t have good stuff and the same guy who think s the 86 Phillies were better than the 86 Mets due to head to head record.

Again, Omar and Sandy have faced different tasks.
Omar’s job was to build an instant winner after 3 staight losing seasons and rebuilding the farm system, especially in Latin America. He did fine with the quick fix but later lst control of the payroll. He built the farm system alright though not good enough, quick enough.
Sandy’s task has been cutting cost to allow the Wilpons to keep the franchise and also lay the groundwork for a longterm winner, with shortterm results being a distant 3rd on the priority list.
He apparently has saved ownership the franchise, the groundwork for a longterm winner is underway but remains incomplete. The shortterm has been mediocre at best. Time will tell whether he’ll create the longterm winner he promised. Opinion on the success seems split for now. We’ll find out from 2014 through 2020…

Duda and Kirk are NOT the problem the worst you can say is they may not be the solution to the problem Sandy caused and refused to fix in Free Agency

Heyward had one good year and has pretty much been nothing special since…
Duda had one hot half a season and then had a bad sophmore year…a bad year that was better than the second year Heyward had…
Age really doesn’t matter if you suck…
A guy who hits .290 and 30 HRs who happens to be 28 will be better than some 25 Year olf hitting .267 with 17 HRs no matter when and where you think his prime is going to hit.

Heyward had one good year and then the Pitchers figured him out…The same may be true for Duda and Kirk but they haven’t had three seasons to figure them out like Heyward has.

So given the same experience I can see Duda going right past Heyward on the whose better list….and no one will care that he’s older if he is putting up better numbers.

But notice, when I was speaking with Metro I agreed his assertion was probably the most correct – that the system wasn’t great but not as bad as made out to be and as Metro said it was probably about average.

This is often the problem – too much extremity on both sides of the fence. Has to be all great or all bad. Can’t be anything in-between?

Now, I’m sure you anticipated what my response would be.

Regarding Dillon Gee as nothing more than a 4/5 starter, how come no mention of those ahead of him?

1) Harvey ranked number 34 by MLB.com going into 2012.
2) Jonathon Niese signed to a multi-year contract. Niese was drafted in 2007.

As far as Tejada, being no more than just a defensive minded infielder, how come no mention of him having hit .289 and .284 the past two seasons ? Agreed, he has no speed and little power but he does get on base.

4) How come no mention Ike Davis tied for fifth in the National League for home runs?

5) How come no mention of Parnell coming into his own last year with a 2.49 and 1.24 WHIP?

6) How come no mention of Murphy being a lifetime .292 batter?

7) How come no mention that in 796 at bats Lucas Duda has 29 home runs and 120 RBIs which shows potential for a 20 home run and 80 rbi season?

As said, does it either have to be all great or all bad? The above ain’t such bad a group to build around.

And as far as the outfield problem, why no mention that had Sandy tried to re-sign the players he had inherited we might have possibly had two 2012 all stars out there? All statements made by Beltran indicated a willingness to stay instead of the contention that all he wanted was out of here. Sandy said if he couldn’t get the type of prospects he wanted the next strategy would be to possibly pursue money – so whom was it that wanted whom out of here?

Honestly if you leave a GM post and defend yourself by saying “I left the new guy Duda and Kirk.” then there is a reason you’re leaving.

I think Omar had some good prospects and hopefully Harvey pans out but I mean lets not pretend that things were so great down on the farm.

There isn’t a single player on the major league roster with the exception of Wright and maybe Ike who is an above average position player. Not one.

The only reason most of these guys are on a major league roster, including the outfield which everyone hates, is because these are the guys Omar left the team after spending all of Fred’s money on guys like Beltran and Santana.