8
2013
Alderson Will Take The Reactive Approach On Collins’ Lame Duck Status
An article by 
In regards to manager Terry Collins’ contract status, Sandy Alderson told Adam Rubin of ESPN New York the following:
“Look, it would be disingenuous to say, ‘No, it won’t be an issue. Sometimes it becomes an issue. I think it’s a function of whether Terry makes it an issue, or the club makes it an issue, or the media makes it an issue. …I don’t think the club or Terry will make it an issue. If it does become an issue, we’ll manage the issue. I understand the possibility it could become something. I hope it doesn’t.”
I posted on this not too long ago, and as usual Sandy Alderson is taking the naive approach. Of course Terry Collins or the team won’t make it an issue. But the media WILL. Collins will be asked about it almost daily as soon as camp opens in 30 days and it will become a distraction.
How many times have I written right here on this blog that Alderson is NOT proactive, he’s reactive?
There’s your proof… Read that quote one more time…
I think once a GM goes more than 10 years in between GM positions, he should first pass a continuing education course before applying for the position again. Just saying…
Original Post
For Terry Collins, managing the New York Mets the last two seasons must have made his last two managing gigs feel like a walk in the park. And if you know the history, then you know exactly what I’m talking about. I had my doubts about Collins when he was named manager, and I’m not going to run away from some of the things I had to say about it. Instead, let me just admit I was wrong about him… and that I’m pleasantly surprised with the job he’s done considering the rotten hand he’s been dealt.
Already inheriting an ill conceived roster to start the 2011 season, by mid-season he loses his closer (K-Rod) and cleanup hitter (Beltran) who was in the midst of an MVP season. In 2012 he learns that his team’s catalyst (Reyes) and his centerfielder (Pagan) were now gone too, basically wiping out his top of the order. This season he’ll have to make do without his staff ace and what was his most productive outfielder last year. Yet somehow, Collins keeps rolling with the punches and more importantly finds ways to keep what’s left of his team motivated and charged up. While his GM keeps punting, Collins keeps finding ways to kick a few field goals.
In 2013, he heads into the season without the luxury of any job security. In fact, if this team really is geared for a championship run beginning in 2014, Collins could simply be cast aside for a younger and newer model, never having an opportunity to reap the rewards of the confidence he’s instilled in some of the team’s younger core players. And so it goes for the lame duck manager…
I posed this question to the Knights of the MMO Roundtable: Should the Mets extend Terry Collins’ contract?
Matt B. - NO! 2014 is Wally’s world.
Jessep – I am not sure yet honestly. I think it really depends on what he can get out of guys like Harvey, d’Arnaud, Wheeler, and any other young guys who come up this year. I like Collins a lot, but I feel like he may be best suited as a coach or an instructor rather than a Manager. I am willing to watch 2013 play out before I make a decision.
Tie-Dyed – Collins was brought in to basically fill a void while the Mets rebuild. I think it’s the appropriate thing to do to allow Collins to remain as skipper not only until they finishing “rebuilding” but also allow him to have one season once the Mets are in a pennant race.
Sean K. – Yes extend TC because despite his own flaws as a manager in some cases, the players back him up and support him. Another 2 year extension couldn’t hurt the team. Will Wally Backman be the guy ready to handle a team of under-26 year old MLB players who have been told they were stars since they were young? Not too sure.
Nick C. – I love Terry Collins in the role he has been and I do believe he has done a great job with the hand he has been dealt. He works well with the young players and gets the best production he can out of those players. However, I dislike that he is bad at working with the bullpen and seems every time he makes a decision on who to bring into the game, it does not work out. This may change if he had a good bullpen but seems to be my one complaint with TC as manager as well as him changing the lineup as much as he does.
Gregg H. – Terry Collins is a very interesting case. I’m a huge fan, and I think the Mets should have issued him an extension at the end of the season. I hope they get that done sooner, rather than later. Terry has been outstanding in dealing with the young players, and he has such a positive attitude. I said this about Terry in past, listening to him talk baseball makes me want to get a glove on and go play (I haven’t played in 30 years).
Craig L. – He’s certainly done nothing to jeopardize his job, but I can see him becoming the fall guy after what will likely be a worse season than his first two in the standings. He’s overcome some big player losses before, but I think this time it all falls apart and he’ll shoulder all the blame from the fans.
Adam R. – I think Terry Collins has been a decent manager. You certainly can do a lot worse. That being said, I’d like to see how the team plays this year before I make any decisions about his future. He seems to be well liked and respected, but let’s be honest — the team has performed no better than when Jerry Manuel was the manager.
Joe S. – I see nothing wrong with extending Collins for two more years but it begs the question, what does the team do with Wally Backman? At some point the guy is going to want to manage and unless the organization doesn’t really have faith in him to do the job, then they need to cut ties with him. Otherwise make him Terry’s bench coach.
Jessica – As much as I like Terry Collins, I think he is just the transitional guy, not the guy that’s going to take us to the playoffs and (hopefully) the World Series. The team is rebuilding, and the team needs a rebuilding manager and Terry does the job to the best of his ability. I think if 2014 is another rebuilding year, then Terry might possibly get an extension. If not, then Wally Backman is waiting in the wings to bring his former team to glory.
XtreemIcon – I think Collins will remain a lame-duck and the decision will be based on progress at the end of the season. If the Mets win 75 games, he’s gone. 85, he’s extended. I like the way the kids like and respect him and want to play hard for him, but I don’t like how he constantly second guesses himself and changes his mind, like with Ike, Duda and LHP.
What do the rest of you think? Extend him or let him manage the year looking over his shoulder and bearing the brunt of a season that looks pretty bleak right now?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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I’ll answer before reading…I like TC, think he’s done pretty well with what he’s got. But I say no…extend him after the season if he does well again…but how can you extend anybody when it’s obvious that the team isn’t interested in making a run this year or maybe even until 2015?
First: TC who was recommended by Sandy Koufax will never be fired. TC very well though could go back to player development.
Second: I am biased and Wally to be manager of the Mets. I predict TC is a lame duck because No 6 is waiting in the wings.
i think TC has done a good job, but wait ’til after the season & see how he manages in ’13, handles Wheeler, juggles the SP rotation, the BP, etc. IF he does a good job with some of the puzzles like Duda, Kirk, Valdy, and guides TD well–then give him a new deal at the end of the season. ‘Wins’ in ’13 is NOT the way to judge that, barring a plummet to 65 wins. AND i don’t ‘get’ this fascination with Wally B. i luvved the grit of the guy too as a player, but he has issues and if TC has done a good job for 3 years with a wobbly team, it’d be criminal to ditch the guy, once we are on the cusp of contention.
No. Re-assign him in the organization after his contract is up and find someone else. TC’s in game moves are sub-par and the supposed firebrand type of managing is never long lived.
Could see already that the Alderson supporters want to wait until after 2013 so if the Mets predictably lose 85-90 games they can blame him instead of the man who put together the roster. There’s no fairness in Metropolitan baseball.
I hate this whole Wally is waiting in the wings thing. It reeks of faux “legacy Mets”. To be honest, we should always be about what is best for the organization going forward. I mean we did the same thing with Wright. Let’s lock him up because we want a career Met. Now we may be divided on whether or not that was best going forward, but I hate the the tiebreaker or really…what tipped the scales seemed to be, well, now we have our legacy Met. I see the same with Backman.
If Wally Backman is the best candidate for 2014 and beyond, then by all means, sign me up. But to decide already Wally is your next manager is premature and dumb. I mean what if Phillies have a great year and Charlie Manuel is locked up, and Ryne Sandberg is available. Or what if Sciosia bombs in Anaheim this year and he shows interest. Or what if John Madden decides hey I can’t win in Tampa. I like the Mets young talent and capacity to spend, and it’s closer to where I grew up and the work I’m trying to do in Hazleton, PA. The point is, you hire the best candidate and always do what’s best for the organization. You don’t just lock up your own and hope for the best.
“Or what if John Madden decides hey I can’t win in Tampa.”
On the bright side, there’s plenty of available spots at Citi Field for the Madden Cruiser to fit.
BOOM!
The clubhouse buffet can include turducken.
Fair enough. Obviously I meant Joe Madden. But hey, that’s funny.
Hank I respect your opinion and please respect mine. I up front said I was biased.
Hey Hotstreak,
I honestly was not responding to your comment. My only proof is that I didn’t respond to what you stated. Sorry if what I said was offensive. My bad. I was just reacting to what I thought the Mets are doing with Wally, not at all anything you said.
He’s a good in-game manager, I like how he handles a bullpen, he has his players’ backs and navigates the media well. No signs of the temper and incalcitrance that doomed his days as Angels manager (yet).
I also don’t get the fascination with Backman. Anybody see Buffalo’s performance this year? What makes anybody think that he’ll relate to MLB players better than Collins at this point? Is Collins not “fiery” enough for you guys? He always seems focused and on top of things to me.
I say extend him. No one wants to deal with a lame duck manager. Unless that was part of the deal and TC is just waiting to get promoted to the FO and Tim Tuefel takes his spot.
Teufel can manage vs. lefties, Backman vs. righties.
YES! Good strategy.
The team flat out quit on him in early September 2012 and his in game moves are mediocre at best. There’s absolutely no reason to extend him.
Team quit on Alderson because Alderson quit on the team. The fact Dickey pointed that out is probably one reason he’s no longer here.
K MAXX I agree with you Alderson quit on the team at the trade deadline and thanks for reminding me of that. As Joey D says a little tweaking” then could have got us in the playoffs. Please do not label me an Alderson supporter or hater just because I said I like Wally. I said I was biased for him. I wish others would follow my example. TC is not the greatest strategist. But he has other assets as rapport with the young players. Let’s stop this site from hidden agenda expressed as fact and state it is opinion. It is a fact that Alderson non-moves at the trade deadline affected the clubhouse. The players said so.
If the players are so weak minded that they stopped bothering to do their jobs because they were boo hooing about the GM, then they need to get rid of every last one of them and find ones that are not losers.
crock of bull that they “quit” on Sandy. They also happened to hit the skids in early July, and by the trade deadline were fading badly from the race.
Could they have brought in enough new players to have reversed the skid, and let them play .650 ball in August in September to challenge for the playoffs? Maybe, but not likely that a spare Pen arm or platoon OF was going to make that much difference, so unless you think they were going to pull off the Dodger trade, the team had to win mostly with what they had.
Oh, and Sandy DID add reinforcements in July. Another lefty in the pen that was one of the better guys down the stretch (until the last few games), and easily the 2nd best SP in August and September, and not far behind Dickey. Unless you think the players went into the fetal position because he only brought in Matt Harvey?
SO who are the guys that quit? Ike? Dickey? Wright tailed off, but no way in hell it was because he stopped caring thatnks to Sandy.
Or, maybe it had to do with Santana and Gee going down with injuries? Tejada getting hurt for a while? Kirk coming down to earth and getting hurt?
nah. More likely, the team was brimming with talent, but they stopped playing because Sandy did not bring in Pujols at the deadline.
“then they need to get rid of every last one of them and find ones that are not losers”
And they should sart the firing in the order of who quit first!
Which means Bye Bye Sandy!
Heading into the ASG break, the Mets were exceeding all expectations with a 46-40 record and were in third place in the National League East just a half game behind the Braves and four and half behind the Nationals. Who were their immediate opponents both on the road namely the Braves and Nats. Our closer after bragging about how he was going to stuff it to the Yankees with a chicken wast no longer available. Yes it was two weeks or so before the trading deadline. THE SEASON WAS ON THE LINE THEN. Nothing was done. Yes by the official trade deadline game yes indeed we faded badly as I think we lost five out of those six games with Nats and Braves. Valdy’s pinch hit homer against the Nats, I believe saved us from a two series sweep. The prior year at trade deadline there was no support from the GM either.
oh, and if Sandy really quit on them, he would have traded Dickey and Hairston and anyone else that could have brought back prospects. But he did not. He called up the reinforcements he had, and said you got us here to the team, take us home (in effect).
maybe he should have “punted”, since a couple of the teams that did (the Phils being one) actually played better after that!
It comes down to this for me Hotstreak….
If the team was close enough in showing Sandy they might be worth getting help for when he said he might….
Does it really matter much if the help would be enough to make 2012 a playoff season?
Wouldn’t whatever you got make 2013 that much closer to ready with the ability to improve what needed it this offseason?
The fact that he ws READY to buy then gave up only illustrates to me that he isn’t really sure what READY is or have ANY timeline in mind for making his READY RUN….
He is just waiting to see it when it happens and by the time it does I think it will be way too late. Ether what he needs is not avaialable or it will cost him players that are making that ready possible like Niese and Dickey
If he had even a hint that being a buyer was warranted last year then even if he changed his mind and believed there wasn’t a move to make 2012 good whatever move he made would have made 2013 much less the PUNTING it appears to be now….
My biggest issue is this FO seems to be unsure on EVERY decision….
From send Ike down to keep him up…
To Mejia is a Starter, scratch that Reliever, Oh Nevermind he’s a starter again…
To Harvey is not ready but a week later and one WORSE start than the one that was his aydition he is NOW ready…
Right up till the We want to keep Wright and Dickey until such time as they shopped them and took the only offer made.
If he believed they were good enough to supplement based on the first half of last year then whatever they got to supplement would have made the end of 2012 and the entirty of 2013 better and we would be one player CLOSER to winning something.
I agree with most of our post about jerking players out of joint.
Hoever I do not agree with:
” Right up till the We want to keep Wright and Dickey until such time as they shopped them and took the only offer made.”
First Wright was never shopped.
Second Dickey was traded for the best deal possible and not the Texas proposition.
Yes incremental improvements in total can make a big difference and you persuaded me on that point. You build concrete block by concrete block. The band aid approach is less preferable. But here is where we disagree I believe SA is laying the foundation with three top prospects along with the good players he inherited. You say prospects can amount to nothing. We got three top prospects as the future foundation. It is too early to make judgements on them.
Well Wright was shopped every year and through the Winter Meetings…
They just didn’t get any offers…
Bob Geren…in 2014, I think anyway.
Give Terry a one year extension NOW.. This team’s management is intellectually dishonest. The only thing holding the clubhouse together is Terry’s personal integrity. Don’t undercut Terry by keeping him a lame duck. Wally is not Connie Mack incarnate. I’d like to see him actually WIN with a high minor league team. Let him earn his way back to the show. Stop rushing the top prospects up. When the kids in Las Vegas know how to win: then bring Wally up with his young studs.
I am in the camp of do not extend him, let him manage this year, and see what comes of it. If he does a good job in Alderson’s eyes, then he should give Collins a multi-year extension. The Mets tied themselves into contracts too many times. Just like a player can elevate his performance in a walk year, Collins will have the same opportunity. Sure his success is dependent upon the players he has. However, he is known to be a teacher in addition to a motivator so let him develop some of the talent that is there. If he gets a good season out of Harvey and finds some decent play out of the OF mess, then he deserves a contract.
No way.
as far as TC’s ability to manage the pen…a manager is only as good as the players (in this case the pen) he has to work with.
When the pen was good…K-Rod closing, Izzy in 8th, Bobby in the 7th and everyone else filling situations, TC handled the pen well. Once K-Rod got traded and Izzy got hurt…the pen was a mess and nobody could have managed those guys.
NO! Bad strategy.
Inconsistent in terms of dealing with younger players in cases like Duda vs. Ike, and playing Kirk well beyond his effectiveness. Could neither he nor his staff see how bad Kirk was doing the last 5 weeks before they finally realized he was purely flailing? By the time they sent him down he looked like he would never find his groove.
Another bad showing was that he should never have had JUST 1 LEFTY in the bullpen. Byrdak’s burnout was entirely overuse and coincided with the team’s steep decline in July. Then they let Hampson go without another lefty “left” beside Edgin. The cherry on top was putting Edgin on the same track as Byrdak!
Terry’s a good guy but he’s served beyond his effectiveness.
I’m kind of on this fence with this question.
I have no problem with TC managing for 2013, especially since they’ll be so many young kids on the team.
If no contract going forward though causes a distraction (i.e., the lame duck type references), I’d prefer not to hear the beat writers asking that same question day after day. That’s going to get old fast.
If the plan all along was one contract, then move Terry to another position in the organization, so be it. I’m not even sure he wants to continue managing after 2013. If that is the case, hopefully they make some type of statement on that up front so we’re not hearing about it all season.
As far as Wally, I guess I’m in the minority on this but I don’t want to see him as the next Mets manager.
Something tells me he’s gonna be a sacrificial lamb not long into the season.
He definitly DESERVES an Extention….
But he isn’t going to get it as he will be the fall guy for the next move they make to buy some time to keep on hoarding kids….
Firing him gets them another Two Years as they can say the new manager needs a year to instill his philosophy before it can pay off in year two….
But we all know that Sandy picks his Managers based of who will implement Sany’s Philosophy not someone who actually has thier own.
Well, I would award Terry 3 Stengels out of 5.
I would like to see him extended because I have a feeling with just a little more talent, i.e. Harvey, Wheeler, D’Arnaud and that difference maker that Sandy promised, I think Collins could get 4 out of a 5 possible Stengels. .
absolutely not.
I will make a jets comparison here. When The coach had good players rex was a genius. When he had poor talent he was a bum. Sanchez was the future when he had good players around him. take away his weapons and of course he was doomed to failure. I say its not fair to evaluate the man based on what he was given to work with. I love Wally and want to see him manage one day but is it fair to showalter him? I guess thats a skank comparison also
Maybe they should DJ Wally:
1984 Davey Johnson was eager for success. Johnson went on to become the first National League manager to win at least 90 games in each of his first five seasons.
Could 2014, thirty years later be a repeat performance by Wally who DJ was his mentor.
Was hoping that the New Year found “Metsie” with a new attitude and the realization that his words are not God’s Laws…but alas it’s the same old Metsie!
Could he be Casey reincarnated at the age of 75 and suffering from dementia?
Maybe he needs a “Gibbs slap” on the back of the head.
Give it up already man…..we all know that no matter what happens you will find fault because you are indeed a hater and just like to “stir the pot”.
My New Years resolution is to see that you get to a good rest home!
Sorry Alan I don’t flip flop the way many of you Sand People do…
What I have been saying has been consistent with itself since before Omar left the building!
And the new year of 2014 will see many of you Wait and See folks flip flop and calling out the lack of progress that will be apparent…
All in an attempt to be able to say See I don’t love Sandy after the fact he failed at everything you said he would do!
Sorry I don’t change my mind based on the date nor do I do it based on which way the wind blows!
I leave that to you who drink the koolaid and believe what it tells you until such time as a new glass of KoolAid comes along to change it for you…
A long time ago I wanted Collins to be hired instead of Willie Randolph – but that did not happen and our team has suffered the consequences. I now look at Collins as a transitional manager whose job is to steer the club through another losing season while pieces are put in place for the future.
At this stage the team needs to find a young, dynamic manager who will lead the team to future successes. That person is not Collins nor is it Wally.
Everyone always blames the manager. bonehead moves? players quitting on manager?
Players quit on the Front office slap in the face by not making moves at the trade deadline
TC can only work with the players hes given. he cant pick a baseball for them, make them throw an excellent change up or have non implosive players in the bullpen
how many managers are the mets going to fire over FO being inept at building a team???
Its not Collins Fault that the mets lack quality players
It’s Wally Time!
http://imgur.com/iQnZp
Can’t the guy even deal with his manager the way he likes without you once again pissing all over everything he does or says?
You don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors so you should just leave it be. He and Terry could easily have an understanding about this already, but no, let’s just call him a reactive loser who should’ve taken a test to get this job.
So dumb and its getting worse daily.
Nobody is twisting your arm to come here, Murphy. In the meantime I’ll continue to keep putting on the pressure when I see him say comments like that. One day people might say, “You were right again, Joe”. Just like they did with my relentless pressure on Omar. Back then everyone was mad at me for hounding him for his moves. Been there, done that.
Keep closing your eyes there Murph and think because you refuse to look that Train that is speeding down the teack you chose to stand on it won’t hit you because you can’t see it and that means it isn’t there….
This is a CLASSIC EXAMPLE of what Sandyhas done since he got here….
He’s smart enough to know INACTION could become a problem….
Yet he won’t act and sit there are HOPE it doesn’t hurt much….
He is a man WAITING for things to happen (While other GMs make them happen) and then reacts the best he can under the circumstances he left himself in….
Thats not managing or LEADING….
It’s slacking off and putting out fires you started yourself!
And it’s no way to run an MLB franchise!
I’m of two minds with Terry.
I like him and I like his style.
I don’t like that the team quit on him in August – how many consecutive home losses did they have?
But I don’t know if he is really to blame for that or Sandy for putting the team together.
I got an idea – why don’t they fire Sandy and let a GM come in to fix the mess that Sandy/Wilpons left and give Terry a team that won’t quit on him.
Better yet – let the Wilpons sell, fire Sandy with prejudice and then see how Terry does.
Maybe he dont want Collins back and if it becomes an issue he’ll just fire him during the season.
Or maybe he is just doing what he always does…
never commits to anything unless forced to…
Leaves his options open….
Is waiting for the Fans to start demanding change so he can fire Terry, call it change and buy himself another year of High Wilpon Salary while he waits for Selig to retire…
Get all this idiots out of here, Starting with alderson, the reason he brought this guy to be the coach is because he knew he could’ve used him like a hotel towel and dispose of it whenever he wanted, and of course, guess who will be blame once the mets season goes awry? Exactly, why extend this guy when he’s got a foot out the door? Look for the dark horse geren to be the next mets coach, he’s buddy with alderson, follows and preached his sabermetrics phylosophy, so i look for him to something be the coach of the mets. this guys will ruin the little bit of decency this franchise had SMH