7
2013
Alderson: It’s Concievable We’ll Go With What We Have
An article by Hojo's Mojo
You may remember a few days ago I posted about Adam Rubin who was told by a source that Mets may not sign another outfielder. (see below)
Today, Rubin gets it straight from Mets GM Sandy Alderson who told him:
It’s conceivable we’ll go with what we have, but we’re still looking. I wouldn’t say that we’re satisfied with what we have. But if we don’t find what we think is a meaningful upgrade, then it’s possible we’ll go with what we have.
I still think there are some players out there, including Scott Hairston, who might be available as free agents. A trade is always a possibility, but I wouldn’t predict that. Other than that, I can’t speculate what will happen. We’re not unhappy with the position we’re in right now, which is to say: still looking, with viable possibilities remaining.
Alderson also admitted to Adam Rubin that the team is not in a position to trade prospects for an outfielder like Justin Upton.
You can read Sandy’s full comments here.
Original Post 1/3
Yesterday, when I reported the Mets signed Andrew Brown to a minor league deal, I was only speculating when I concluded:
“It looks like the Mets will just go with a patchwork solution to their outfield with guys like Collin Cowgill and now Brown to go with Duda, Baxter, Nieuwenhuis and Valdespin.”
Apparently I wasn’t far from the mark. Adam Rubin of ESPN New York reports:
Although Scott Hairston remains a free agent, a team insider said it’s conceivable the Mets actually will not add an outfielder on a major league contract this offseason.
Lucas Duda appears penciled in as the primary left fielder. As for center field and right field, that may very well be a pair of platoons. The lefty hitters would be Kirk Nieuwenhuis in center field and Mike Baxter in right field.
A team insider said Justin Turner actually should get strong consideration as a platoon outfielder too, despite no experience out there.
Justin Turner in the outfield? Yikes.
Rubin says the righty bats in the outfield are most likely newly acquired Collin Cowgirl and Andrew Brown who signed minor league deals and received spring invites.
It’s now appearing that the Mets offseason is grinding to a halt and that the waiting game is over.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
190 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
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I have been supportive and fending off angry Mets friends all off season thinking they would wait out the inflated contracts and sign a couple major league guys like Kearns or Ankiel. Apparently and sadly I was asking for too much. It is insulting that Wright and even Bay deferred their money to appease ownership but they will just pocket the cash. A New York team will be under 85M. If anyone still believes that Sandy will use the money coming off the books next year for contracts is a freakin idiot. What a joke!
^^^^THIS!
If they had an ounce of decency they would pay Wright back his deferred money. Hey David, how are you liking that plan now?
I bet he doesn’t show up a month early for spring training this time.
Maniac, at the end of the day, the man will get paid $138 million dollar, you really think he cares at all about plan? Please.. Don’t underestimate the power of dollar bills, the man will never criritcize this FO and its gooners like dickey did, or stand up and say i’ve been lying too as other players have said in the past, he got paid, he’s the new company man the wilpons needed to try and sell the fans ticket.
Yup, he gets 138 mil. He doesn’t have to risk a bad year before hitting the market. Can’t blame him for keeping quiet and smiling. He got his. Why? Nobody knows.
What’s even more amazing is, how all of the sudden people are saying he was lied to, no he wasn’t. Who knows exactly what was being said during the negotiations, even wright himself said he’d like to keep it as private as possible, ohhh, and btw, Good luck spending money next year on FA as well, all the money coming off the book on santana it’s already on the books, as DW contract will go up $12 million, so there’s your FA signee for the 2014 season…
LMAO! Cant wait for srt and Kay to see this news. They have been such devoted fans and have been anxiously waiting this offseason out, because as they said “it was only December”. Shame on you Sandy! These two great Met fans trusted you and you let them down.
Don’t you wish they were right, I do… Nothing wrong with being positive just really sucks when there isn’t much to be positive about.
I do wish they were right, but we already saw their first two offseasons and they’re done with their moves by the holidays. I also wish I was as positive as them, I used to be, but the last 5 years have made me jaded. If you knew me on this site from 2005 to 2009 I was always positive. And before this all the way to the miracle of 69, I was always positive give or take a few years in late seventies.
You are a piece of work, stop bringing my name on up in threads I have yet to participate in, and putting words out there I never said, not falling for your manipulation of “great fans” bs.
Tell me, other than Michael Bourne, what OF is worth signing this year? Classic, lets sign for the sake of signing.
So saying “it’s conceivable” is an opinion, not fact at this point. It may be, it may not.
Again, keep bringing up the last two off seasons sucked, my memory goes further back and haven’t had a good off season in much more than two off season. Remember when Omar, Jeffy and Dave Howard went on the FAN and promised a better team, and Omar compared Perez’s to Justin Verlander? NOPE you don’t, only since SA has taken over with lawsuits pending, billion dollar lawsuit pending do you remember bad off seasons.
What happened to you Maniac? I remember when you could have a counter point like a grown up, and weren’t so nasty like some of your new friends. Do you think talking nasty like the “cool kids” brings you new friends” I used to enjoy chatting with you, but something happened, not for the better that’s for sure. Sad
The other thing Kay about Bourn is signing him – you not only lose your 1st rounder but you lose that slot $ designated for that pick also. I like Bourn but for the Mets is he worth that right now? I’m not sure
Yup, the MLB is going to see some backlash over these new rules and teams are going to challenge the old sign and trade no no clause. I could easily see a team contacting the Braves and having them sign Bourn then work out a deal with Bourn’s consent. The problem with that is that the Braves know they are going to rack up for doing basically nothing so their return would have to be worth at least the pick. It’s going to get to the point where the qualifying offer is like the franchise label in football.
Bourn is a pipe dream because:
A) If SA is mentioning we may go with what we have, he certainly isnt going to do a 360 & sign the costliest FA left.
B) Years ago the Mets initially said, & have since reiterated, that they will NOT deal w/Boras, and I do NOT blame them at all
Josh Hamilton
BJ Upton
Maybe they can go sign Pujols too while they are at it?
Nah, he’s already signed.
I am telling you all Sandy had to do was sign Omar Q to a MLB deal instead of a minor league invite and it would all be good. Damn Sandy, can’t get anything right.
Wow…didn’t know you were so concerned about my opinion.
Before y’all go jumping off the deep end on these rumors:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/59734/young-viable-recker-likely-as-backup-catcher
Although one Mets insider told ESPNNewYork.com on Thursday that the outfield may be set without the addition of a bona fide starter, another official familiar with the organization’s intentions said Friday that outfield at least remains on the shopping list.
__________________________________________
Feel better now?
Excellent. The explanations will come as soon as they receive their direction.
Looks like im boycotting Citifield 2nd year in a row.. bullpen in shambles, OF in shambles and they give zero effort ? Nope, not going ..
Same. They don’t spend money, I don’t spend money. Show me first, because your credit is no good here, Mr. Wilpon.
Not re-signing Scott Hairston is a real head-scratcher, given his recent success on the field and popularity in the clubhouse. He would solidify our power from the right side, together with Wright, d’Arnaud, Brown (perhaps) and Buck.
Nah, that would make too much sense. Of course, we can afford to pay JayBay 16m not to play, Ollie & Castillo 18m not to play in the previous year, but we can’t seem to find an extra 10m/2y in the couch for Hairston. Had he been non-productive, he absolutely would’ve been eligible for a raise, I guess…
Don’t forget…they’re still paying Bobby Bonilla, too!
There’s no way that can be serious…Duda as everyday left fielder and a platoon in CF and RF???? And Justin Turner as a viable option in the OF?
I think someone is playing with Rubin. Then again, nothing with this franchise surprises me. We shall see…
Actually it states that Sandy has yet to return calls for the past 2 days. Maybe this is Rubins punishment. Rubin is reporting his own conclusion drawn from the lack of activity or decency to return his calls. Maybe it forces Sandy to do something or at least explain his arrogant genius plan. Again I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can only blame myself and start my apologies to all the Mets fan I argued with during the past 3 months.
So he takes it out on the Mets by not placing Mike Piazza on the HOF ballot. What a D!ck.
We can’t sign Jeff Baker? Austin Kearns? How expensive can they be? 1 year 2 mill? This is really sad. We better get to know Cowgill and Brown because it looks like they’ll receive a pretty large amount of playing time this season.
“We’re certainly not punting on 2013″ -Sandy Alderson 12/18/12
The title to the post and what Rubin actually reported is two different things. Your title states they will not. Rubin reported they might not.
???
Rubin and basically every other news source also stated RA most likely wouldn’t be traded….and then what happened?
They suddenly got the offer they wanted and boom!
Seems to me, that the FO likes to use the reporters in their negotiations.
The FO does use the press. So do you think they are feigning disinterest in Hairston to get a better price?
I’m not really going to get all upset about this. I remember on December 9th reading this:
“Andy Martino of the Daily News is reporting that the Mets and R.A. Dickey have resumed negotiations and that they have made some modest progress on a contract extension since things cooled off at the Winter Meetings.”
I’m not sure which OF people want them to sign though to be honest. They can’t build one in their basement. Do you want Hairston as a starting OF? I personally don’t think he’s a starter so I’m not gonna be upset if they don’t pen him in as one.
So they won’t sign a free agent OF who am I supposed to be upset about? Abreu? Kearns? Nady? Hairston? Sizemore?
Sure I would have liked a shot with Sizemore…
This still doesn’t rule out a trade does it? All it does is verify that the free agent pool of OF’s is not very good.
“This still doesn’t rule out a trade does it? ”
Keep Hope Alive !
I think Hairston is a pretty ideal signing if we’re not punting 2013. He fits so many needs–bats righty, plays both corner OF spots(and can cf), has power proved he can hit CitiField (
1 less hr then Wright in 100+ less ab’s), his contract of 2 years $10million won’t ‘bankrupt’ the franchise, and given Swisher going for 4 yrs $14mm per and Pagan 4yrs $10mm it seems like a more then resonable length and dollar amount.
There’s going to be so many avail ab’s in that Met Of im not worried about keeping him happy, and even if Sandy were to make a trade or signing of an impact player, he can still be regulated to more of a bench role and/or still tradable commodity, he just doesn’t hamstring the organization at all.
Can you imagine if Duda doesn’t develop this season, to have pretty much nobody reliable to put in the OF?? And it’s all 3 OF spots. I just feel like it Hairston doesn’t fit into Sandy’s ‘playbook’ , he’s not signing a 32 year old to a ‘contract’, he’ll fill with 1 yr $1mm guys or minor league contracts and i think it’s going to really blow up on him.
Also, im not sure RA is a good ‘rumor’example, im sure they were negociating with him if they couldnt make a reasonable trade. And consdiering spring training is a month away and there is very few OF options avail, i tend to believe Rubin. But who knows maybe Sandy is about to sign Bourne to only 3 year contract and shock us all.
Sadly im probably more concerned about the bullpen then the OF but thats for another post..
hey RickeyBobby – My point about the Dickey “rumor” is that when that was reported the trade was already agreed upon. Anthopoulous himself confirmed that they had the workings of a trade in place over that same weekend and were just working on other aspects of the trade. The Blue Jays knew they were getting Dickey a few days after the winter meetings. The deal itself was AGREED upon by Dec 13th. Which means they had to be talking when this report came out.
Ofcourse the fair Alderson love jessup will not get upset. Kiss Alderson’s you know what and here are your free tix and parking pass. Keep up the butt kisssing work jessup. Enjoy the morgue. You and Sandy alone together for a string of 81 quiet boring romantic noghts with uncle fred and littel Jeffy. Enjoy being a brain dead puppet for these crooks.
Comeon Jessup..Even YOU have to admit that resigning Hairston is better than what they have signed to date and is one guy who could reasonably make this intended platoon experiment work better than throwing Justin Turner out there…
How much could Hairston possibly want 4 Mil?
Is that really going to break Sandy’s budget? Whats he going to buy with that money he doesn’t want to give hairston?
I personally would prefer he signed someone better but we both know he won’t!
I just don’t see how skimping on a measly sum of 2-3 Million for a year or two helps 2014 or 2015 at all….
You say you will give him more time and thatsfine but given that time what can you possibly see as possibly happening?
The OF ship has sailed, Better to take the last boat left and pay his price, Hopes he does the same or better than he did when we first passed on trading him when he was worth something just not enough for Sandy because he couldn’t get a BA lister for him.
Ok so they sign Hairston to 8m/2yrs
then that means you’re willing to accept Hairston as your RF in 2014 also. Right?
So you mean getting paid anything over 3 Mil means you have to be the starter?
Remember I was the one willing to pay 13 Mil for a guy who even in his DOWN year would be a better help in the lineup and the field as a CF than Hairston will as a RFer….
Unless you can name the two names that will replace the Two (maybe THREE) platoons we will be using this year in the OF it’s not reasonable to say we won’t have a use for Hairston next season in what is likely at least ONE platoon that will remain in 2014…
Personally I would have loved for them to spend some money on a Power Hitting RHH Outfielder which I have said they needed for two years now to replace what they lost with Beltran….
But many seem to be more concerned with rooting for actions towards Jeffy’s trust fund than the baseball on the field….
Line up to go to games, sheep!!
I think everyone knows my point of view about Sandy and his direction, however, I am going to side with Jessep and others on this for what Rubin writes is indeed virtually useless information as he is really just passing on the thoughts of a team “insider” (which makes it appear he could be speaking to someone not officially with the club) saying the obvious – it was “conceivable” the Mets might not make attempts to seriously improve their outfield problem – as they haven’t so far.
Might be more a case of Adam needing something to print and it being Adam Rubin that insight into one individual’s thinking gets mushroomed into becoming something more than it is. My first reaction was like most others – “ah, ha, he was giving fans the double-talk once again”, however, I will reserve my ah-ha’s until they are verifiable. But other than proving his “not punting 2013″ should not have been taken seriously, I think for 2013 Alderson’s people should give the kids the opportunity to show us what they can do simply because the players they might sign would be just stop-gaps and I would rather we lose with the likes of Duda, Kirk, Baxter and yes, even Turner or other prospects we might not be fully familiar with yet getting the bulk of the time in lieu of the likes of Cowgirl and Brown.
I see your point and I still have faith that the OF will be improved before Spring. Signing Kearns or Ankiel or whoever wouldnt take away time from Kirk or Duda. We will still be able to evaluate what we have in the kids. Im am also in the minority that Den Decker can show us something in the spring or start in AAA but can be called up when he starts to hit. Valdespin also playing well in Winter leagues. Well see….
Wait until you see post about his Hall Of Fame ballot.
Adam Rubin’s
Hi Joey
It’s ironic that you are taking the FO position of lose within. I was going to drop a line I came across outside of sports in an article called what we can learn from 2012 which applies to 2013.
To paraphrase for the Mets: The FO is really talented at coming up with many different phrases that all mean, “No, we’re not doing anything productive right now.”
Starting in June the Alderson staff will be telling us what a genius this loser really is because we will be fighting the fish and the space men in Houston for that awesome first draft pick in 14. It doesn’t get any better for those non fans that don’t know what winning or losing is.
Joey D – you’re such a sandy apologist!
I like Turner. I’d like to see him in the lineup.
people need to stop acting like Austin Kearns would be the answer. he hasn’t been good in five years. I mean are we serious? Getting bent out of shape because we’re not signing Austin Kearns? Is he a decent outfielder? Yes. Offensively, I would much rather take my chances with Cowgill or Brown or any other guy they signed for league min than Kearns for one or two million, because at least they have upside and can hit LH. If it’s a minor league deal than maybe. But are we gonna get all our panties in a bunch because it’s a minor league deal, and it HAS to be a major league deal, just so we can say we signed one? I mean the guy hit .196 against LH last year. He hasn’t hit left-handers since ’07. Gimme a break.
It is the any move is better than no move mindset. People were upset about the Mets not going after Cody Ross. Now that things have dropped another level, they are upset about Austin Kearns and Hairston. The sad thing about Hairston is he had a career year and most likely will drop off in production. As much as I like him, he is nothing more than a 4th OF. He really needs to be in the AL where he can get some ABs at DH. That is the ideal situation for him.
You tell people to shut up because this GM failed so miserably to help the team, that when the only guy left is Kearns yuou praise this loser GM for not signing him. The defense of alderson has no limits. The desire of the few to love the losing team has no bounds. what do you get from a gteam trying to suck the most? I know all summer you can praise this failed GM for trying so bravely to earn the first draft pick. Too bad you don’t have a clue about the joys of a real team fighting to make the playoffs. You’s rather study meaningless stats and praise the great white hope for not being that evil Latino Gm who merely tried to make the team a winner. Good for you. Gp to all 81 home games, go brake for the love of Wilpon and Alderson. You deserve it. Baseball fans don’t.
Ah yes. The race card…the epitome of ignorance.
Omar wasnt a terrible GM because he was Hispanic…he was just a terrible GM. One only needs to look at the AAA team the last few years and ask, where are all his draft picks. And Omar’s moves were not bad because he signed Hispanic players; they were bad because he signed over the hill washed up players. In fact, I think it is universally agreed that one of his worst signings was Bay who happened to be white.
The Wilpons were stupid for hiring him to begin with. He orchestrated one of the worst trades in the last 20 years with the Colon trade and yet the Mets expected him to be able to build a winner. All that he did was spend Fred money and buy some short term success (which any idiot can do) and then watched it pop (like all bubbles do).
And yet you defend sandy alderson… Go Figure.
You guys act like Sandy was here before the Madoff thing went down.
The Mets are broke. He knew what he was getting into. His challenge was to make them not completely suck with negative resources. How you define “not completely suck” is up to you.
Comparing Sandy and Omar is ridiculous right now, as the stature of the franchise is completely different post-Madoff than it was pre-Madoff.
Hate Sandy all you want, but at least recognize the reality of the financial situation.
Can we all agree that this team would be better off if sold, though?
Omar Minaya wasn´t a great GM.
However, he also wasn´t a terrible GM.
He did what he was asked to do, i.e. build a quick fix winner, while swimming in cash and having two inexpensive young building blocks in Wright & Reyes.
Yes, he did at the cost of future payrolls – but he couldn´t foresee the collapse of Bernie Madoffs scheme either, I suppose, so while the 2nd half of his tenure was filled with dubious contracts, he thought he had the money.
Also, the farm system he inherited was terrible.
He built up a nice Latin American talent pipeline that will benefit the Mets for years to come. He did underestimate how long it´d take for that talent to get here though.
Likewise he ignored high upside prospects in the draft and went for low risk – but often low ceiling signings. Thus your current 2013 Mets roster, filled with lots of solid young players without much upside – save for Matt Harvey, a college pick that looks great and Jon Niese, one of the rare HS pitchers picked under Minaya´s watch.
The role players he added to the major league roster initially worked out well – then he lost his midas touch and got mostly crap to fill out an aging roster during the 2nd half of his tenure – save for RA Dickey, of course.
I hate dividing the world in black & white, good or evil, with us or against us.
In Minaya´s case, the truth is somewhere in between. He was neither the architect of longterm Mets greatness nor the village idiot who spent the rest of the Wilpons´ fortunes…
The good news is that this is just 2013 reporting which means the truth is most likely hidden in these statements somewhere. The bad news it could be true. The reality, we are going to be pretty bad in 2013.
So I guess this is the post where the people who “thanked” Omar for acquiring Duda, Kirk and Valdy get mad at Sandy for not replacing Duda, Kirk and Valdy.
No, I think its a post where Mets fans get mad at Sandy for not replacing Beltran, Reyes and Pagan after getting rid of them.
Dunno why some people always bring up Omar Minaya when Sandy Aldersons lack of moves to improve the team are under the spotlight.
Three years removed from Omar Minayas tenure and he’s still getting blamed….I didnt hear this kind of finger pointing when Omar was the GM. No one was pointing fingers at Jim Duquette or Steve Phillips when Omar was in his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th year as GM. You would think Omar made the deal with Bernie Madoff.
This is Alderson’s mess he did this same thing in San Diego when his best players contracts were up he let them go and didnt replace them with major league talent. He filled the Padres Outfield with the Scott Hairstons, Jody Geruts and Tadahito Iguchi’s of the world.
Alderson is also the one that stuck a TOP 50 Prospect Kyle Blanks whom is “6’6 270 LBS” 22yr old Rookie 1st baseman in RF in the majors…coincidentaly Blanks got hurt(Plantar fasciitis)a foot injury….lol….So there is no reason to be surprised he did the same thing to Duda. Alderson is a one trick pony if you wanna see what he is going to do next just watch his moves in San Diego….
I believe he will try to sign Sizemore a player who was successful but hasnt played in 3 or so years….Why? Because he did the same thing in San Diego when he signed Jody Gerut who missed the previous 3yrs(if memory serves me correct)
This is has nothing to do with Reyes, Beltran and Pagan. This has everything to do with people who try to elevate Omar’s tenure by parading around his acquisitions as if his great eye for talent left Sandy with a respectable farm system. He didn’t. The replacements for the aging Omar outfield left Sandy in Beltran and Bay is not major league caliber. Neither was the catching. Yet we still read people’s comments as recently as today including those players in the list of “successful” acquisitions on Omar’s part. Can’t have it both ways. I’d like to see a better outfield as much as you would. The difference between us is that the other side of my mouth isn’t heaping priase on the incumbents.
This is a totally different situation than with Omar Minaya or any of his predecessors.
This is a cash strapped ownership group that ist unable to support large market payroll right now without large market revenue. They have had cash-flow / liquidity problems for quite a bit of time, needing bridge loans and all sorts of creative loan models like selling the 4 % shares, etc to keep operations running.
In the winter of 2010 / 2011 there were two options:
# 1 Keep Beltran, Reyes, K-Rod and eventually Pagan & Dickey longterm and add significant shortterm talent to that – structural – 80 to 85 win team (that had finished below .500 in back to back season due to injuries).
Upside:
a) Turn team into 85 to 90 win team with legit chance to reach the playoffs
b) make fans happy
Downside:
a) Payrolls in 150 to 170 million range for 2011 through 2013 (by adding impact supporting cast pieces) – where is that money going to come from ? Nobody will give further loans to ownership, so you basically need a best case scenario of reaching the playoffs and going deep to fulfill itself to have a shot at covering cost where SNY gains are high enough to cover Mets operating losses (didn´t work in 2011 with a net loss of roughly 50 million $).
b) Delay a thorough rebuilding of the farm system which had been among the thinnest in Baseball for the past 15 years and counting, producing an occasional star but not enough depth to surround stars with an inexpensive supporting cast
c) for ownership: lose team if something doesn´t work by filing for bancrupcy
# 2 Rebuild (in a somewhat gradual way instead of a hard-reboot / fire-sale) by selling off expensive veteran assets along the way and eventually have a clean slate again to rise from ashes again with revenue aligning with payroll
Upside:
a) Create a young. longterm and sustainable talent base that can help turn a NY franchise into a longterm winner
b) avoid bancrupcy and allow ownership to keep the franchise
Downside:
a) no guarantee it works
b) talent level drops to 75-win range along the way, losing further fans and thus customers and making a rebound more difficult
# 3 A total rebuild by selling off everybody older than 25 or making over a couple of million $ within a year
Upside:
a) Everyone knows what the exact situation is
b) eventually create a longterm winner in a large market
Downside:
a) talent level drops to 65-win range, revenue collapses
b) risk of bancrupcy if revenue collapse is quicker than payroll slashing – thus liquidity issues and loss of ownership
Summary: # 2 was the only choice from a financial aspect.
Blame the Wilpons.
Blame Madoff.
Blame Omar (though that´s really not fair).
But you cannot really blame Alderson for it – though you can rightfully blame him if it doesn´t work out in a couple of years.
As for the question:
Would you feel better with Austin Kearns and Jeff Baker under contract instead of Andrew Brown and Collin Cowgill ?
DrD.,
Excellent analysis as usual. One comment – there are no guarantees with any plan, but option #3, the total firesale/rebuild, is the model that the Pittsburgh Pirates have used for the last 20 losing seasons. The Mets can’t go that route because they have much higher overhead/debt service on the stadium and TV network. That is why DW had to be retained on a second generation contract. the biggest risk to Wilpon ownership is no longer madoff, it is attendance of 900,000 and no TV ratings.
I think you are right. Considering the financial instability of the team, investing a ton of money into the team is basically like pushing all the chips in. It could reward you big time and all of a sudden you are back in the black and a big dog at the table OR it could result in you losing the very thing you hold dearest with no option but to walk away with a losing hand and your dignity.
The Wilpons weren’t going to take that chance to lose everything they believe they have built.
Yes and you can´t just view the Baseball decisions isolated from that major concern.
Now, with the projected 2013 budget probably in the 85 million $ range eventually, assuming one veteran SP and one veteran RP still get signed (not the official 110 million $ payroll range including deferred payments), the Mets probably break even with the added TV money and effects from the All Star game – even with a further drop in attendance and without further help from SNY gains that are switched over to the Mets operations.
For 2014 with further increasing TV money, an improved product on the field probably leads to higher revenue again and thus the potential for a higher payroll too. And at the same time, 40+ million $ owed to Santana, Francisco and Buck come off the books – and will only be “eaten” up by 50 % from raises to Wright & Niese, plus arbitration gains for Ike, Murphy, Gee, Parnell and Tejada.
So, 20 million $ + X from increased revenue (TV money + attendance) + potentially SNY profits can be re-invested into the 2014 & beyond payroll, be it via trades (from the deeper farm system) or free agent signings.
Sure, you´ll believe it when you see it – but for now, not re-investing money is understandable both looking at ownership´s financial situation and where the club stands. By next off-season that legitimate excuse won´t be valid anymore.
The question will be:
Will the Wilpons´ be happy with a 60-million 3rd or 4th place team winning 75 to 80 games and make a nice little profit of 20 to 30 million $ in addition to SNY profits ?
Or will the Wilpons´ be happy that Alderson & Selig have saved their franchise and sport a 100 million $ payroll (and budget !) again for a team that can approach 85 to 90 wins to go with a chance for further growth thanks to a mostly young roster in addition to a rather deep farm system ? And potentially make even bigger profits if it works out ?
“Sure, you´ll believe it when you see it – but for now, not re-investing money is understandable both looking at ownership´s financial situation and where the club stands. By next off-season that legitimate excuse won´t be valid anymore.”
AGREED and I have been saying this since Omar was fired. It was clear even when Omar was still around the Mets were headed off a cliff financially and had no money to give Omar to supplement the team. I have no idea if it was always Omar’s idea or the Wilpon’s idea to always go for the biggest name possible and then surround that name with scrubs the rest of the off-season instead of spreading it around to fill all the holes. However, it was already clear in late 2009 and 2010 that the Mets spending ways were coming to an end and finances were starting to be a problem.
a “cash strapped ownership group” WITH a GM acting as COO and who is adverse to giving long term contracts..and somehow found 138 mil underneath the mattress
Again, if the goal is to win in the 2014 to 2017 window, keeping Wright around makes a lot of sense, based on what is in the farm system currently and the lack of viable impact hitters in upcoming free agent classes. If you hand out a 2nd generation longterm contract, you give it to a corner position player who is a pretty good athlete. If that guy also happens to be a nice to market homegrown star, it´s an added benefit – but not the reason for the extension.
Tell me which future free agent bats in upcoming classes are better bets than Wright to hit in 2016 or 2017 ? I don´t see any. And I´m not sure the Mets have much of a chance bidding on Robinson Cano as a free agent against the Yankees – besides Cano´s longevity being very much a question based on the position he plays (hello, Chase Utley).
Also, even with Wright the projected 2014 payroll as of today is merely 60 million $.
And the projected 2016 payroll isn´t higher than maybe 80 million $ even with all sorts of arbitration raises included.
I’m sure the reason Sandy put Blanks in RF wasn’t because All-Star Adrian Gonzalez was already at 1B, too.
Wasn’t Kevin Towers the SD GM during that time ?
From what I gather, Alderson wasn’t involved in day-to-day Baseball operations but filled an administration role as team president, didn’t he ?
“”From what I gather, Alderson wasn’t involved in day-to-day Baseball operations but filled an administration role as team president, didn’t he ?’”
Yeah, and so did Jeff Wilpon with the Mets and he wasnt involved in ANY DAY-TO-DAY MOVES with the Mets O_o (Can you sense the sarcasm)
You think a man like Alderson relinquishes control like that….Alderson is the Mets GM in job title alone….He is doing Jeff Wilpons job which is why he imploys 2 high paid GM’s in Ricciardi and DePo as his subordinates.
Who wants Michael Bourne (sp) when you already have Lucas Duda?
I had a gut feeling that when they signed Brown, they were through. Brown is a major “find” for them, a guy who can supposedly hit for power and get on base. Never mind he’s likely just a RH hitting version of Lucas Duda: slow footed and a poor defender, though I did read somewhere he has a great arm. Never mind also that his “power” is padded through the thin air of Colorado and their AAA PCL team Colorado Springs. What a sad, sad OF: Duda in LF, Kirk/Cowgill in CF, and Baxter/Brown in RF. I wonder if Uncle Bud regrets giving his buddies the WIlpons the 2013 ALL STAR game while they put nothing more than a AAA team on the field for the same year? Does anyone realize that at least 20% of the opening day roster could be made up of minor league signings? 1. Anthony Recker, backup C 2. Aaron Laffey, long man/5th starter 3. Greg Burke, middle relief 4. Andrew Brown, platoon RF 5 Omar Quintanilla, back up SS/2B. The back up MI role could also go to minor trade p/u Brandon Hicks as well. This will be a fine team to watch in the same year we also host the ALL STAR game. Yikes.
Would you rather see those 5 jobs go to
1. Miguel Olivo (instead of Recker)
2. Carl Pavano (instead of Laffey)
3. Ramon Ramirez (instead of Burke)
4. Austin Kearns (instead of Brown)
5. Orlando Hudson (instead of Quintanilla)
for probably 4 times the cost ?
Bro, i see you’re in your full on defend sandy at all cost mode today, i just will ask you something, then why in the hell we saved all that money on wright then? he deferred $8 million of his contract so sandy can improve the roster right? now, ask yourself this questions, who you rather have in your lineup, the guys who while costing more can help the mets at least compete or those 5 POS’s sandy alderson brought in? While not all stars those guys can at least be some sort of improvement over what we got don’t you think? Can you stop defending sandy and his moves and look for any kind of excuse to justified the horrendous job he’s doing? You starting to sound like someone else who used to use the whole blame the wlpons as soon as someone said anything negative (while factual) about sandy..
” then why in the hell we saved all that money on wright then?”
Alex, that is a great question that I would love to know the answer to as well because it was said the same thing about the Bay deferral. So there are only really three possible reasons.
1) The cost of any difference making FA is either more than we can afford, more than they are worth or they don’t want to come here regardless.
2) The Mets still have no money and did those two moves just to save enough money to operate the team.
3) What Alex says.
TRS, which has always been my issue with this guy, he is supposed to be this great evaluator at finding low cost player who will provide great rewards, well, it’s year 3 and he’s signed 100 minor league deals and you cannot tell me one has made a difference to help the team.. Had he made those moves mention by the kid above, i would’ve been THRILL! yet he instead once again went the cheapest way possible, it’s like saying, we’ll suck anyways, why spend money? this does not look good for next year if this man is the GM still, because it means we won’t be getting any additional help either based on what has happened in 3 straight offseason…
Well I think some of the small moves have helped the team in small ways but of course rarely when you shop at the bargain bin are you going to find an impact player.
I think where we differ Alex is the same place as SRT, why are they only shopping out of the bargain bin. Is it because of #1 or #2?
Pretty sure the money saved on Wright & Bay ends up in the Wilpons´ pockets or rather strengthens the cash flow of the organization by avoiding further losses. David Wright & his agents aren´t dumb and will pretty much know that 2013 is a “bridge” year. Basically it serves to build a positive cash flow again after years of losing money and battling to meet payments on time due to massive cash flow issues that were only solved via various creative bridge loans.
Maybe to explain some of my comments here, my profession is to work as a lawyer / official receiver that handles insolvency cases (albeit no involvement with the Mets or any Wilpons´ enteties).
Pretty much what has transpired over the past couple of years here is a classis business restructuring process, limiting shortterm risks (and thus not signing any expensive free agents), keeping operations liquid to meet payments (cutting costs everywhere) and laying the groundwork for longterm success (by building up a strong farm system).
Such a process – unfortunately and as difficult as it may be – often also includes cutting costs by laying off longtime (and more expensive) employees or lowering salaries. Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and RA Dickey being the most prolific victims of this procedure with the Mets.
You. Don’t. Say.
You don’t need to be a weatherman to see which way the wind is blowing and you don’t need to be a restructuring expert to see what has been happening with the Mets the last couple years.
No it´s pretty obvious and – considering the circumstances – the front office has done a pretty good job overall with it, though certainly not flawless (losing Reyes for little return, wasting the limited available dollars on a subpar bullpen in 2012, etc.). It´s just that some folks seem to get quite upset with an inevitable process or blame the front office on failing to invest heavily into expensive salad dressing for a chicken poop salad (when the real thing that´s going on is the nurturing of fresh chicken as a base for future chicken salads)…
Other than the fact that he was horrendous in his previous stint for NY, I think Pavano would actually be a good fit. Too bad he wants six or seven mill and the Mets can’t come close to that.
Mets Will Not Sign An Outfielder To An MLB Contract This Offseason”
Lmao, and to think some people actually were criticizing us for coming hard on this FO for the lack of moves being made early in the offseason, and the whole “it’s early december” argument was being thrown out there as if we have not seen how the past 2 offseason have played out. but hey, of course, you’ll still get the usual suspect now backing up saying it’s not THAT big of a deal, or the FA pool wasn’t good enough, or hey, maybe we can make a trade!!! i mean it’s pathetic and sad how much these people worship this guy, a guy who’s done NOTHING for this franchise, but they follow this guy based on his moneyballing mentality and shittty phylosophy of OBP is more important that winning.
On behalf of Bayonne, Maniac, Vinny, Metsie, K maxx, and all those who were 100% about sandy alderson and his gooners in the front offcie, APOLOGY ACCEPTED!
Hey Alex,
I’m devestated that you left me off that list and just cast me as aside as “others”. I think I’ve been quite vociferious on the matter – to the point that I’ve been called a liar, pathetic, manupalitive, etc.
Don’t I at least deserve honorable mention and a purple heart?
The Coeur has spoken.
Happy New Year, Alex.
Wait, how do we get “Mets WILL NOT sign another OF” from this:
” a team insider said it’s CONCEIVABLE the Mets actually will not add an outfielder on a major league contract this offseason.”
I mean I know we can all speculate but when you post the Mets WILL NOT you are stating a fact that hasn’t even been implied.
Then of course there is logic that you can use to make a determination. I forgot to include you up there with srt and Kay. Please dont take it as a slight. You were also one of those who kept saying it’s only December. This must be a stunning blow for you. lol
You are missing the point Maniac. As bloggers we have to be careful to make sure what we post as articles are easily determined as either FACT or OPINION. Stating the above comes off more as an fact but at this point it’s clearly still an opinion. The source did not say the Mets WILL NOT he said it’s conceivable they will not. Of course it’s conceivable they will not, that doesn’t mean it’s 100% fact.
Look they very well may not sign anyone but I was speaking more to the title of the post and how IMO it’s being inaccurately portrayed considering it is not what the source said or even what Rubin said.
I see your point. Maybe he left off a question mark or something, who knows.
It’s possible. Or maybe he meant to say that it’s his opinion that the Mets will not sign any OF. That’s perfectly fine on a blog as well. I know I have made the same mistake and I often think that Rubin does the same, either on purpose or by accident. Sometimes I think in Rubin’s case it’s deliberate.
i would’ve liked the Mets to have signed Cody Ross or to sign Scotty Hairston. But, at this point in the calendar & viewing the remainingF/A market (& excluding Bourn, since no way are we giving up a pick to sign him), the best route to markedly improve the OF is via trade.
And AZ is stacked in that department as we all know. And even if AZ trades Upton, they’d still be stacked. i urge the F/O to try to pry A. Eaton from AZ. We give them pitching + Flores. Nobody ever has too much pitching. Mejia + Montero + Flores for Eaton. Eaton looks good to me & is MLB-ready.
I just don’t see them trading Eaton. I think they will trade Kubel, Parra or Upton in that order pending return.
Yeah, you may be right. i really like this kid Eaton though. And AZ has too many good OFs(wish we had that problem!) even after trading Upton or somebody.Eaton may not be priable, but i’d try to get him. Pollock would be okay or Parra, but Eaton would be my choice there. i think we make a trade for an OF. We’ll see.
Sure, Flores & Mejia for Eaton would be a nice move that could actually make sense for both. Of course, no idea whether Arizona likes Flores – opinion on him seems very split. They have a young 3b prospect, Mark Davidson, who is pretty close to the majors and who they may like better.
I assume Kubel or Upton will be the one to move.
And looking at Kubel, the difference between him & Lucas Duda may not be that profound – both offensively and defensively. Sure, I´d do that swap straight up because Kubel pretty much is now what Duda should be when he meets reasonable expectations. However, neither really is a good longterm solution either. So any additional talent lost in such a trade wouldn´t really help.
I just think they end up with Eaton playing CF and Ross taking either Kubel or Upton’s spot.
Ur probably right, but they still have Parra, who plays a decent CF / OF. And they have 2 guys in the wings Marte & Broxton. Loaded in OF.
Yeah, they certainly are. Just based on my reading though they are higher on Eaton than seemingly any of them including Upton and Kubel.
“Flores & Mejia for Eaton would be a nice move”
That seems like way too much for Eaton….Dont get me wrong here Eaton is a very good prospect not worth Mejia and Flores in a deal….Flores stock has dropped due to one season in which he struggled offensively as a 19yr old in A+ ball.
I seriously think Flores will be a stud when he reaches the Pro’s and I think he will tear up the PCL. He has a low K-rate and the Power is starting to show, that is potentially a scary combination. Sandy seems to value power and puts little stock in the defensive side, he’ll find a spot to stick Flores hopefully Flores can handle that position defensively
Flores reached the pros five years ago buddy.
I think we all know what he means by pros.
lets trade all the Flores and Mejia type guys out of here !
I always expected Capt Kirk to get 1st crack at CF but I can’t envision the Mets with the current outfield choices.
I figured Duda would still get at least a shot at LF because of his power potential but I expected an addition to be a right fielder.
It would be a bad decision IMO if they leave the OF choices as they currently are.
I hate to say this…but its more likely we trade Ike Davis after another stud year…for some stud OF prospects….and slide Flores to 1B…
If Ike has another 35+ Homer year…he is going to be unaffordable for the same guys who paid DavidDimples 138 million
Ike is likely on his way out…
Considering Ike’s PPA and BB/PA stats and cost, I find that unlikely. In fact I think it’s much more likely they extend him soon.
Even if they extend Ike it will be so the Mets can get more for him in a trade. Niese will be traded any minute now.
LOL, you Debbie Downer.
I prefer Gloomy Gus.
Ok, GG it is.
Why not sign Delmon Young? He’s a righty & hits for power. We can probably get him on the cheap because of his off field issues last year. I like the plan but signing D. Young, Marcum & Lindstrom would put us in the mix.
Maybe because he hates Jews?
Or perhaps the same related reason that no one is even rumored to be interested in him despite the fact that he hit 18 HR and had 74 RBI last year. Got to be a big reason why he isn’t even getting rumored right?
I think it has less to do with his Drunk Stroll in Manhattan. And more to do with his terrible defense even in Left Field he is pretty bad he is a DH who doesnt hit enough to be a DH.
Yeah could be but we start the worst defensive OF in the majors, right?
It is all hear say until the season starts and they did not sign an outfielder. They can possibly sign one 3 weeks from now or even a month.
As I have said many times….THE PLAN is to just WAIT and SAVE until something happens that he can then react to!
There is no thought out plan there is a just a READ and REACT to events as they occurr which is why decisions made are so late in coming and quickly reversed based on the next day’s events….
They don’t have a plan they have a way of thinking and merely react based on that thinking which never seems to think ahead to next weekor year always 4 years from now which are years that won’t concern them because they will be fired long before that FUTURE turns to the PRESENT!
Wait until MMO reacts to the breaking news about the Wilpons refinancing. Cerrone has this quote on MB…
“I think when he talks about 2014, he’s not necessarily talking about contending, so much as he’s talking about finally starting from zero, with a somewhat clean slate and a lot of options.”
My reaction as I read through the MB post… this quote makes me throw up in my mouth. I’m supposed to rejoice at our owners getting more time and to let our favorite team continue to erode. Oh and 2014, like some of us have been saying for a while now, is not time to compete.
1. Competing in today’s MLB is being .500 come September. We don’t even have hopes for that?
2. Financial stability matters, but not as much as you know, actually investing in your team.
3. If we’re not even looking to compete in 2014, why was David Wright not traded for prospects again??
4. This is really awful. really, sad.
That is precisely why I have tod all those who point to Cashen as a model or 2015 as a WIN POINT for what is being done that in fact we are still in the GRANT phase of getting us to the ZERO that Cashen started with and took 5 years from THAT point.
By 2014 we could be the worst team in baseball and get Top Overall – Top 5 draft picks that will get us the Strawberry and Gooden (maybe at different positions) that made the 86ers possible….
It’s dumb to rebuild until your already at the bottom because once there the Picks are the best in the league!
What we have done is make trades that will get us to the bottom in two years and once there it’s impossible to make a move that does NOT improve the team because there is no way to go but up and you can get 5 years of patience merely based on SOME improvement each year.
From Rubin,
“It’s conceivable we’ll go with what we have, but we’re still looking,” Alderson told ESPNNewYork.com on Monday. “I wouldn’t say that we’re satisfied with what we have. But if we don’t find what we think is a meaningful upgrade, then it’s possible we’ll go with what we have. Yeah.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/59746/alderson-conceivable-mets-done-adding-ofs
I don’t see how anyone is surprised at Alderson’s stance. We knew he has just been giving lip service. Of course they are going to go with what they have and deep down we all knew it.
MLBTR reporting:
Hairston Choosing Between Yankees, Mets
It appears unlikely that Scott Hairston will be leaving New York this offseason, but that doesn’t mean he won’t change teams. ESPN New York’s Wallace Matthews spoke to Hairston’s agent Casey Close and was told that Hairston is in ongoing talks with the Yankees and Mets. Close told Matthews that his client will likely make a decision in “a matter of days.”
He also said signing Dickey woukd be a priority! He did not say he is not going to sign anyone!
This story doesnt have legs, its an incredibly broad statement about hearsay.
I’d wager my “Madoff Insider Newsletter Subscription” that SA makes another move for an outfielder before its all said & done.
Agreed.
Putting a servicable team on the field for 2013 is not a priority.
This is not about building for the future – this is about keeping the team payroll down.
He wants to put the cheapest team he can for next season on the field.
Just like not offering Reyes a contract – he’s not really looking at quality right now – just warm bodies to fill out the roster.
Is it his fault? No – because he took the job with the mandate of lowering payroll – NOT building for the future. If he was building for the future he would have signed Reyes after the 2011 season when Jose would have been more affordable.
Sorry – that should have read – signed Reyes after the 2010 season.
exactly..why trade Angel Pagan for Andres Torres….
if ur building for the future, u trade Angel Pagan for prospects, not guys OLDER than him or guys in their arb years ( aka only controlled for a year or 2 )
that was an unbelieveably bad move
to me trading for Torres, not trading Hairston/Byrdack, along with platooning the kids and/or benching them in september was an attempt to get to .500…which for the mets would’ve been seen as a step in the right direction…. a mantra they would’ve repeated over and over and over again…
Sandy at this point is compliant with the plan,
he didn’t. He traded him for ramirez.
how long til ramirez is a free-agent?
and alderson himself said middle-relievers were shaky year to year…
pagan was not traded with the FUTURE IN MIND
we are neither rebuilding nor playing to win now..
we’re playing to pretend we’re playing to win now
Pagan was traded because he was starting to act like a loser. His teammates started to turn on him, and he started to turn on his teammates. Dehydration? give me a break. He needed out of new york. good riddance and I wish he’d never come back, but unfortunately the Giants do come to Citi. He was a punk and a dumb player and he was traded for a good reliever. The trade sucks now in hindsight, which everyone is great at, because Ramirez sucked out of nowhere and Pagan didn’t. I loved the trade at the time because we were getting a good reliever in a sh*tty bullpen, and getting rid of a player that was really starting to piss me off. Bye-bye Angel.
Hi CB,
As one who once went through a serious bout of colitis, I can assure you it creates mood swings, pain and much trips to the bathroom, the severity of which, of course, depends upon the extent of the colitis and the individual.
This from Medicine.Net:
What are the symptoms of colitis?
Inflammation of the colon causes the muscle layers to go into intermittent spasm and cause cramp-like pain, which is pain that comes and goes. The pain usually is in the lower abdomen. Since the muscles fail to contract in a normal pattern and the colonic contents move through the colon rapidly, there is little opportunity for water to be reabsorbed. This leads to watery diarrhea. If the lining of the colon is inflamed and breaks down, bleeding may occur.
With colitis, particularly colitis involving the distal colon (rectum and sigmoid colon), the pain often crescendos and precedes a diarrheal bowel movement. After the bowel movement, the pain may relent but then returns with the next episode of pain.
Depending upon the cause of the colitis, fever, and possibly malaise may or may not be present.
This is the definition of malaise:
A vague feeling of discomfort, one that cannot be pinned down but is often sensed as ‘just not right.”
That’s what is missed here is that the Mets were seriously considering non-tendering Pagan. Thus to them it was an easy trade. I can’t say that I would have non-tendered him but those rumors were there in September.
WAAAAAAAYYYYY OT
GO IRISH!!!!
Jack Leathersich @LeatherRocket
Who does everyone think is gunna win tonight? I got ND.
Matt den Dekker @UpperDekker
I have Notre Dame winning 24-16
Howard Johnson @20Hojo
Little over an hour before Notre Dame gets knocked back to the Stone Age…#SEC
ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cant wait for the 2013 season.
The battle between us and the Marlins to stay out of last will be one for the ages.
When are Met fans going to realize that this type of GM speak means absolutely nothing. Relax people, the offseason fun is just beginning.
This team is a joke. Why cant we just say we are rebuilding! Why did we waste our and wrights time?
Hi Todd,
Are we really re-building or just using that as a business smoke-screen? Think of it:
) Sandy has been charged with making major cost cuts twice before – Oakland and San Diego.
2) Sandy is a lawyer and business person and part of that new breed of general managers who have been brought in to run a franchise in terms of business.
3) The Mets were hit with the Madoff loss and we don’t have to get into the financial figures anymore but….
4) That subsequently led to the NY Metropolitan Baseball Club, Inc. (not the Wilpons) twice facing bankruptcy.
5) With those credentials, Bud Selig admitted he urged Sandy to consider going to the Mets to help the Wilpons out of their financial mess while Sandy was happy where he was and wasn’t interested in the job.
6) Selig also said he took unusual steps to help the Wilpons because they were victims, unlike having MLB take over the Dodgers, Rangers and Expos under similar financial hardships.
7) With Oakland Sandy said that due to free agency, trades are no longer made on the basis of “talent”.
8) Competitive integrity did not stand in the way of dismantling the team in 2011 (front office not having faith in the players being hard to swallow said R.A.)
What I am saying is for the sake of clarifying what I mean about competitive integrity. One does not take a shot away from a team. It doesn’t mean they had to be the favorites but it does not mean having the attitude that the team was just hanging around either – not when only six games out of the loss column and having played .575 ball over 85 games after that miserable start in 2011. To then sacrifice that season and sending the message that one has no faith in one’s players goes against everything that competitive integrity stands for in a front office.
How many games were the eventual world champions out of playoff contention on August 27? I believe the answer is 10-1/2 out (ten in the loss column) with 29 games to go. A month before that they were just one game ahead of the Mets. Somebody I know wrote to me and defended the decision to trade both Beltran and KRod and getting Wheeler in return by saying “Sandy Alderson did not want to gamble the future on miniscule odds. That’s ALL it was”. I mentioned that the odds were more miniscule for St. Louis on August 27 than they were for the Mets the month before.
9) Sandy said the reason behind the trading of Beltran was to get a Zack Wheeler-type in return. Yet I have attached in the past articles in which he told the media if he couldn’t get the prospects they wanted in return, he would then be open to monetary compensation instead.
10) Sandy said his top priority for 2012 was re-signing Reyes. He would not even meet with his agent. Not re-signing Jose isn’t the issue in as much as the deception to the public. If he and Jose could not reach an agreement, fine. Then Sandy could say that was his top priority but it failed.
11) Competitive integrity also did not count when the team was on top of the wild card and nothing was done to fill in the weak spots (team felt it was kicked in the stomach as reported by Kevin Burkhardt).
12) Fred Wilpon desperately wants to remain owner of the Mets for personal reasons.
13) If he did sell the team, Wilpon would be selling it below market value.
14) There were drastic cuts made in all areas of the organization, including the minor leagues and draft selections.
15) Sandy publicly said in 2011 and 2012 that the moves he was making were for fielding a competitive teams and then admitted this past September that he signed “inexpensive” players his first two years knowing nobody could expect to win with those types since they only produce fifty percent – another issue of competitive integrity.
16) There is the issue of personal integrity in what is said to the fan base since Sandy was saying one thing while actually doing the opposite privately (numbers 8, 9, 10, 11,15 ) which does mean one has to be careful about taking him at his word on other things (i.e., rebuilding, for example).
17) Sandy said the Mets are now in the position not to lose money. That means meeting all operating expenses and paying off debt. But that has been achieved with drastic across the board cuts on payroll and all other operating costs (including money spent on draft selections) getting them to at their present levels with the revenue they currently project to get from attendance and SNY. I will not venture a guess if the increased ticket prices will compensate for the expected loss in attendance.
Now, all of the above are facts and without the interjection of opinions (including the footnotes about having to question competitive and personal integrity due to the actions also listed above). There is no room to argue any of those points because they are real and not subject to question.
So we have to take them as they are and come to our own conclusions. But how can one tend to lean more to the conclusion that Sandy and the Wilpons are as serious about re-building as they are about the money when the above shows a pattern related not to the game but to the ledger books?
I’m looking forward to going to Toronto to see R A Dickey pitch.
This at this crazy article about scenarios to land STANTON.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mets-pursue-marlins-giancarlo-stanton-193800261–mlb.html;_ylt=Atp_S6U9ZMZMGDydjPj0baFUYsp_;_ylu=X3oDMTRxMTlidmhxBGNjb2RlA3ZzaGFyZWFnMnVwcmVzdARtaXQDTWl4ZWQgTGlzdCBOZXdzIEZvciBZb3UEcGtnAzgwMWY3YjVlLTcyNmYtMzEwYy05N2JlLTdiNTQ3MjZjOWRlMgRwb3MDMgRzZWMDbmV3c19mb3JfeW91BHZlcgNlN2YxMTdjMC01OTAyLTExZTItOWVmZi0zYzM3MzgwZDNiMjM-;_ylg=X3oDMTJ0dXZ2bjBvBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDOTg4ZGVhM2YtNzAzYy0zZjhhLWFmNzEtMTI0Y2E5ZTVjZDkzBHBzdGNhdANuY2FhZnxibG9nBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQ–;_ylv=3
My opinion is, NO WAY.
What’s crazy is that url string.
LMFAO, I know, right?
I never seen one like that !
Hey Jessup. We are having a girl in the outfield Cowgirl you say.
I am certain the are not done. Noody says they are done January 7 and means it.
Wow, Just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! These people are just amazing or plain dellusional, look at this comments:
“When are Met fans going to realize that this type of GM speak means absolutely nothing. Relax people, the offseason fun is just beginning”
“I am certain the are not done. Noody says they are done January 7 and means it”
“Putting a servicable team on the field for 2013 is not a priority”
It’s amazing how some people were told to relax, it’s only december and we’ll add the right people, then of course, we were pegged to be in the running for certain decent major leaguers only to go and sign rejects and POS’s to minor league deals, and even then people will still look for excuses as to why they all of the sudden didn’t want the major leaguers and how those rejects all of the sudden have high ceiling or it’s only for one year excuse. It’s really sad and pathetic how people are still trying to be right about sandy alderson on how he is a stoic genius. It’s as sad as it gets here in NY.
I don’t post much on this site, but I do read it everyday. I love reading the banter between everyone. It’s what makes sports great. With that being said, I have to admit that I have been on the Pro-Sandy side of things. Slowly that has been changing. After reading what he said yesterday, I do believe I have completely switched sides. This team is a joke. I do still have hope for the future, but this year, I would be shocked if they average more than 5,000 people a game. And that’s paid attendance!
Mykey, the CORE salute you and welcomes you aboard. we’ve been saying for 2 YEARS how this man is nothing but a puppet who was brought here to reduce payroll and so far we’ve been right, there’s no plan and no desire to win nor put up a competitive team out there, but all of that criticism didn’t come easy, we’ve been banned, ridicule, insulted etc just because we’ve crirticized this man and his tactics/phylosophy, we are still waiting for apologies from a lot of people in here but nonetheless, we welcome you aboard the F*** Sandy Alderson Express.
“we’ve been banned, ridicule, insulted etc just because we’ve crirticized this man ”
LOL, Alex considering that Joe D is very critical of Alderson I hardly think that is why you were banned. You never seem to take responsibility and always blame someone else. You guys were banned because of how you say, not what you say. I would think that would be clear by now.
Please… Critical. Give me a break.. Just because you write for this blog (whether is crap or not) you all of the sudden earn some tipe of inmunity that no matter what you say you’ll always be right and never on the wrong side, use this as an example, is there a more hated person in this blog than JesseP?? Yet, somehow because he’s a “Writer” for the blog Joe D fails to see the type of character he is, that is why to a some point i am glad people see us get banned, because it shows them that you cannot be critical or in any way shape or form called out a writer here. And if you do, you’ll get thrown in the “Drunk Tank” just because…
I am not talking about Jessep, I don’t give a crap about you feud with him. I am talking about the fact as to why you and others are obviously banned. It has nothing to do with the topic of the conversation but how you say it. Again, the OWNER of the site is very critical of Alderson so why do you think HE bans you for being critical of the owner? That just reeks of you not taking responsibility for your own actions.
1) If people actually “hate” others on a baseball blog whom they have never met and know nothing about outside of their views of the game of baseball then I feel sorry for those folks
2) If you think there are more people in the MMO community that would like to see me removed instead of you then you have an incredibly warped view of reality.
If you spent less time worrying about trying to get me and others who disagree with you removed from the site and more time discussing baseball topics – you’d enjoy MMO a lot more. This personal 4 year quest you’ve been on has brought you nothing but several bans and suspensions and maybe one day you’ll figure out it’s best to just move on.
Jessep, I don’t post as much as I used to, but I do still lurk around so to speak. And I’ve made it a point to skip over anything, story related, that you post. You and I are just on different sides of a spectrum it seems, and I just don’t agree with much of anything you say, or how you say it. After “feuding” (if you want to call it that) plenty w/ Alex and w/Bay, I took a step back, and researched alot of what they were trying to get across to people. I profusely apologized to both of them even. Turns out that I share their opinion of the State of the Mets. In fact, I enjoy them both very much. And not because we share the same opinions, but because they LOVE THE METS, and so do I. I don’t “hate” you at all, but I don’t respect you even a little (not that it matters to you…I get that) because you are guilty of many of the same things you accuse Alex and Bay of. Mainly antagonizing, but it is what it is. I dig this site, I really dig Joe D’s passion for it, and enjoy it and am thankful he is able to keep it going. That said, in response to your:
**”2) If you think there are more people in the MMO community that would like to see me removed instead of you then you have an incredibly warped view of reality.**
This may be a 100% correct assumption, however, include me in the group (however small it may be) that wouldn’t mind to “see” less of you. Your not quite as awesome as tend to think you are. Again, wholly just my opinion on a blog with many different opinions.
LGM
Removed? Well I won’t go that far…
But to see you (and a few of your boosters) put in your place for the same snarky insulting attitude and posts you (and your boosters) contantly complain about as a problem and to see JoeD say to you privatly or publicly to STOP taking advantage of your friendship and Writer status here and start acting the part you want everyone else to aspire to!
Wait a minute. Are you talking about another Core? I thought I destroyed the first core the way Luke Skywalker destroyed the Death Star.
Well evidently some of them went spinning into outerspace only to appear in the next movie.
Still Standing… Still waiting for an apolgy from many people in here who thought we hated alderson personally just because we saw he was gonna destroy this team, and guess what? He has, he’s signle handely has managed to anhialate the fan base into 2 and create a joke of a franchise.
I wouldn’t say Alderson has dug us out of being “a joke of a franchise” but lets not pretend we weren’t already there when he arrived. Also what the fact that we have won more in the last 2 years combined than we did in Omar’s last two years? Of course that is skimmed over because Omar was “trying to win”. Like every GM isn’t trying to win the most they can with the available resources they have.
Pretty much…..this.
“Of course that is skimmed over because Omar was “trying to win”. ”
No It’s skimmed over because your comparing two INJURY plagued seasons with two SCRUB PLAGUED Seasons all to make the scrubs appear good!
You want to compare the two GMS then why compare their two BEST years here?
For Omar that would be 2006 (97-65) and 2008 (89-73) for a top performance total of 186-138 One Playoff Appearance compared to Sandy’s two best years here 77-85 and 74-88 for a total of 151-172 a loss of 34 games or 17 games per season loss on average….
It’s very nice to cherry pick and add the injury plauged 2009 to make a case and ignore the team and what it did when it wasn’t hurt, but the truth is the team Omar built was 79-83 with Beltran out for most of the year when Sandy took over
And Sandy has not won more games than that after two years of his PLAN….
2009 is cherry picking, but using 2 of the first 5, and 2/7 overall, isn’t?
You guys sartd the cherry picking not me….Don’t like it when someone uses your own BIASED tricks against you do you?
Ok lets remove ALL of the bias….
The TEAM Sandy inherited was a 79 win team….
Has his team improved on that record?
NOPE!
When Sandy is gone it might be possible to compare their positive and negative impacts on the Mets. Doing so now, makes you look foolish.
Also, are you saying that 2011 and 2012 weren’t hampered by injuries as well? You never allow money as an excuse so why are injuries?
And choosing to compare using the onlyTWO bad season that were bad due to INJURY shows you to be biased….
Lets compare the records of the team Sandy got…That was a 79 win team….
Have we won MORE games or less since then?
Even that 79 Win team had lost it’s biggest bat for half a season so even thats is reall unfair but surprise they still one more games WITHOUT Omar’s biggest bat than we have won with Sandy and HIS Biggest bat!
Again, aren’t you the first one to say that money can’t be an excuse for wins? Then injuries can’t either. Besides how about 2011 where the most anyone on the team played was around 120 games? Don’t you think injuries kept that team from being “competitive” as much as 2010?
Because the GM can’t control the health of a person…he CAN control the money…..
Money isn’t limited…Rosters are!
Once you set your roster you have limited your options when injury hits….
And by limiting the money you spend you ALSO limit the options you can fight through the injuries with….
As for the injuries of 2011 and 2012 name the biggest bat on the team that got hurt?
Wright who was out 1 month and your comparing that record with 2010 where the biggest (and better of the two bats) was out for almost half a season?
Really?
And STILL they won more games in 2010 than in 2011!
A GM can control the budget set by the owners? I guess with Jedi mind-tricks. Anyway, besides the point that the 2011 Mets were killed by injuries as well.
Wright only played 102 games and was clearly affected by the injury for much of the season.
Reyes their 2nd best hitter in 2011 only played in 126 games and was clearly affected by his injuries in the 2nd half even after he returned. Ike missed most of the season after starting red hot. Couple that with no Johan and Bay injured again. Yes injuries severely impacted 2011 as well.
NEWSFASH…..
Wilpons have given him 25 Mil he has yet to spend this year….
He is sitting on it like Jabba the Greedy HUT!
Bathing in the money he has BEEN GIVEN BY THE OWNERS but refuses to spend!
wright’s injury in 2011 did nothing to stop the team from contending…
ike’s injury in 2011 did nothing to stop the team from contending
what sandy inherited was DEPTH !!!
we had 3 guys that could play 1B
so when Ike got hurt…Duda/Murphy played the position…
Tejada/Turner / Murphy played 2B
Reyes / Tejada played SS
Murphy / Turner played 3B
and the SP was pretty good even w/o santana…
the weakness was the middle relief ( something sandy never addressed )
the bottom fell out after they traded Beltran…AND Murphy AND Reyes AND K-ROD
thank god for the internet
Holy crap are you honestly saying that losing Wright and Davis did nothing to the team’s chances of competing? If you don’t lose those guys and Wright is himself and Ike continued on his pace then Beltran might not have been traded to start with.
“Holy crap are you honestly saying that losing Wright and Davis…”
Hmm well lets see shall we?
What was thier record before K-Rod and Beltran got traded and what was thier WIn Pct in June and July when Ike and Wright were not there?
They had a .511 Win PCT on JUly 9th without Wright and Davis….
We trade Beltran and K-Rod and wind up with a .475 Win Pct….
SO really if you think Wright and Davis hurt that year whatever you think they cost us was NOTHING compared to what the Beltran and K-Rod trade cost us FURTHER!
You MIGHT be able to get away with saying that if Wright and Davis didn’t get hurt and we kept Beltran and K-Rod we might have made the playoffs….
You might even get away with Saying K-Rod wasn’t needed to stay at .510 Win Pct since we got to as high as .514 Win Pct right up until the day (July 28th) we traded Beltran….
But thats about it!
It all went downhill after Beltran was gone and oddly enough thats why 2011′s final results looked similar to 2010′s….Half a season of Beltran…the remaining few games you can assign the reason for loss to whoever you like….I Like K-Rod and those saves that got blown by his replacements myself.
If Hairston chooses the Yankees over the Mets, Alderson’s quest to improve the outfield will come to an end and he will go with what he has, basically the same outfield we ended the season with minus a 20 homer, 60 RBI bat.
Yeah, it will be similar yet we don’t have Torres and Bay so that’s good… LOL.
Oh boy…..
Even with Hairston, we might qualify going in for the worst OF in the league.
Qualify? LOL, we are the reigning champs.
Alex, yesterday someone sent me this link to MetsBlog
http://metsblog.com/metsblog/results-and-video-from-metspolices-mets-police-awards/
After reading that I realized it was never that bad on MMO.
I have definitely eased up last year and I do allow people to get away with a little more than usual. Mostly because we get too many comments for me to read every single one, that would be too time consuming.
If I issue a ban, then most likely that person said something racist, sexist, evil, or went out of his/her way to personally insult another reader/writer in a vulgar way.
I would afford you that same protection if someone personally attacked you.
Yeah, that along with his comments on the direction poll where he again identifies that only 10% of his readers actually comment. I would say that our blogs have a much higher percentage of commenters but I still wonder what percentage comes for the comment section, even if they don’t comment, and what percentage is just click reading and moving on.
Right, like me getting banned for criticizing a move by sandy alderson? A guy you criticize according to TRS? please give me a break, you are obviously bias towards some people just because they are writers here, how many times we’ve all told you and i am sure you’ve received emails about JesseP and his ways? You’ve seen yourself how he’s treated some people here just because they’re new to the site and don’t agree with him. you’ve seen how he was acting when he was the Moderator in the shoutbox, please, have we been saint? no, but don’t tell me you’re not bias towards your “Writers” just because they write for the site, and that has been proven by how you blast us publically yet whenever anyone of us have send you emails regarding things that have been said to us or how we’ve been insulted you choose to do nothing or reply back with the “I send him an email” story that we won’t know whether it’s true or not because unlike us, god forbid you called them out publicaly like you do with us
Man, if you would just stop being so obsessed about Jessep you could maybe see the forest for the trees. Again, WHY would JOE D, the owner of the site ban you for being critical of the GM? He would in turn have to ban himself… LOL. Take responsibility.
Yeah, as the owner of the site i am sure he’ll ban himself right?? That’s like jerry jones firing himself as the GM. it’s not gonna happen buddy, and also, are you joeD? was i talking to you? Why do you feel the need to but in when i am trying to have a conversation with him and expressing my frustration? i don’t see you butting in when he sent me to the “drunk tank” this is why some of us lose our cool, because people like you don’t mind your own business and try to butt in on conversation that you don’t belong, you seem to forget this is MMO and not the desert, let a person for once make a comment or have a conv without the need of you reply or comment back… Mind your ____________ business bro…
Always blaming someone else. It must be nice to live in your world.
You shoul learn when to keep quiet and not butt in, when one is trying to explain to the owner of the site one’s frustration over certain things you don’t butt in, you stay out of it, in no way shape or form i mention you, so you sit back and relax, when your buddy kingman used to come in and insult everyone all you did was LOL up until he got banned then you came in with a half ass apology, please stay out of my business as i in no way was talking to you, i was explaining to Joe D how i feel about his ways of handling us. are you Joe D???? No right, so please for once, just for once respect one single comment that is in no way directed to you, because all you do by doing this is provoking me into blasting you ultimately to get ban. Please stay the hell out ok? thanks
” because all you do by doing this is provoking me into blasting you ultimately to get ban. ”
Thanks for proving my point on you never taking responsibility for your own behavior. Have a good day Alex.
Because, you don’t mind your own business.. You have the never ending need to post the last comment as some sort of ego stragedy to be the alpha dog or something, please stay out of any comment i make regarding MMO, this is not the desert where you get to tell people what to do or what to comment, i am simply stating my frustration over the treatment of some of us for years, yet others get a pass. again, do you think i can express that sentiment to the owner of this site without having YOU butting in? once again, please stay the hell out of it ok.
“, please stay out of any comment i make regarding MMO, ”
“this is not the desert where you get to tell people what to do or what to comment, ”
LOL, and you preach double standards. Oh no, I am baiting again. I am sure to cause you as an adult to lose control of your own mind and body.
Sigh… Please, stay the hell out of it.. What part of that you don’t understand?? Do you think for once, just for once you don’t have the urge to reply back to have the last word? On a conversation that has nothing to do with you nonetheless..
Just about every blog I frequent has a commenting policy. Violate it, and you’re banned.
Most blogs, you’re banned permanently. Those commenting here who have violated the policy have often times just been temporarily banned. Folks should consider themselves lucky that you have the time and inclination to keep up with those multiple layers and take that into consideration.
Over on MLBTR, they prominently publish their commenting policy as a post at least twice a month, if not more. I’m sure it’s because of the sheer volume of new posters but maybe if participants saw that type of post weekly or so, it might make more of an impression.
Yup, MLBTR’s comment policy is very strict and once gone your gone.
As for TRDM we have one but honestly I think we have had to ban maybe 2 people in 3.5 years. We are lucky for sure.
I still can’t figure out the animosity of some toward the Colonel. He writes some of the most well researched and throught out posts here (whether you agree with the sentiment or not, they are always defendable). Plus he posts relevant baseball related comments in the comment section, and actually seems to know a lot about the mets and the sport (including the business side) in general. he is also respectful of rational comments, and keeps it family friendly.
Then again, I am still searching hard for the Sandy lovers that worship him and care only about what he does and not about the Mets, and haven’t found any. So maybe I need to pay more attention?
“Then again, I am still searching hard for the Sandy lovers that worship him and care only about what he does and not about the Mets, and haven’t found any”
LOL, you won’t either, at least not on a Mets site.
I still think it’s possible that the Mets wil sign one or two more players. That being said, if they go into spring training with what they have and some of those expected to round out the 25-man roster are found wanting, I’m sure they’ll be able to pick up a few players on waivers or minor deals to take their place. In any case, to me, it’s not about the difference tha a Chris Young or Austin Kearns might make between finishing with 70 wins or 75, 2013 is all about the development of Harvey, Wheeler, d’Arnaud, and all the prospects in the farm system that are expected to be major leaguers someday. Personally, I think the Wilpons should be more concerned with winning this year than I am because it can only boost their attendance, but I’d rather see young players get a chance and hopefully some will prove they are building blocks to a contending team rather than have a bunch of players on the downside of their career playing so the Mets can win a few more games.
” but I’d rather see young players get a chance and hopefully some will prove they are building blocks to a contending team rather than have a bunch of players on the downside of their career playing so the Mets can win a few more games.”
Agreed, for some who care so much about a GM lying to the fanbase, going out and signing those guys you mention to just put up a good show is much more damaging and deceitful than the GM saying anything.
You want to know the only real difference between those who want Sandy to do something and those who prefer to wait 3 or 4 years to win?
WHEN THEY PREFER to sit through the losing…..
Win NOW and lose 5 years from now…..
WIN LATER and lose all the years between now and then….
And in the end even if you win 5 years from now in most cases it’s one and done….
Me I don’t care about 5 years from now because I could be hit by a bus before it gets here….
I don’t care if Scorcese is planning to make the best movie of all time 5 years from now and to do it is making 5 small crappy movies in the meantime to pay bills and to have time to write his masterpiece script….
I want to see good baseball NEXT year and the year after and EVERY YEAR….
Cause every day COULD be your last…..
And I may not be here to see this 20 year plan (cause at this rate thats how long it will take) to get this win that two top FA OFers and a closer could get me next year….
Too bad if Wilpon has to have hot dogs twice a week to give it to me!
Metsie, I have to intervene here. Jabba the Hutt spells his name with two T’s. Last thing I need now is George Lucas on my case.
Don’t sweat it…Disney owns it all now!
But I will take note and admit (proudly)…I more of a trek guy that war guy,,,LOL