29
2012
The More Things Change…The Worse They Get?
An article by Tie Dyed
I would never get through the endless cold dark winters if it wasn’t for old Mets videos and Ken Burns. Last night I watched Shea Goodbye: 45 Years of Amazin’. A great documentary, it details the history of the Mets at Shea. As I watched Ray Knight round third with his hands on his head after Mookie hit a slow roller, I saw something I had forgotten about: The patch on the uniforms. 1986 was our 25th anniversary. Our Metropolitans had been around for a quarter of a century. A milestone.
2012 saw our Mets conclude our 51st season. Man, how time flies. The Mets are now in their second half-century. And it got me thinking (since I have no life) How does the Mets first quarter century compare with our second quarter century? For discussion purposes, I’ll refer to 1962-1986 (our first 25 years) as Act I. 1987-2012 (our next 26 years) as Act II.
When the Mets entered the NL in 1962 along with the Houston Colt 45’s, the baseball landscape was very different. Expansion teams were put together by cast-offs of other teams. Has-beens and never was’s. You couldn’t win a championship in five years like Florida did. Or get to the post-season in three like Arizona. You had to build from NOTHING.
Sure, the rules of the game were the same, sans DH. Although the game itself has remained relatively unchanged since the late 1800’s, the pennant races were very different.
The 1961 World Series was won by the Yankees. Led by the M & M Boys, The Bronx Bombers handily defeated the Reds in 5 games. New York won that final game, 13-5. The date was October 9th. Yes, that early. October 9th. In today’s world, we’re first getting our post-season feet wet. But back then, it was all over in early October.
There were no divisions, no LCS’s. Two leagues. 10 teams in each. You won your league and you immediately advanced token to the Fall Classic.
There were many great Mets memories in Act I. But man oh man, there was also endless suffering. Although the 60’s ended on a high, we spent the entire decade finding new ways to lose. In our first 7 years the Mets averaged 106 losses! We finished in 10th place five of those seven years, 9th in the other two.
Also in Act I was the post-Seaver era of Grant’s Tomb. In the six year period of 77-83 (I’m not including the strike-shortened 81 season) the Mets averaged 65 wins against 97 losses.
Basically 14 of our first 25 years were a joke. A waste. We were lovable…but we were a laughing stock. We were a doormat for the National League.
In 1962, only 1 out of 10 teams made the post-season. Baseball expanded in 1969 and with the creation of divisions and a “League Championship Series,” now 2 out of 12 teams would make the post-season. 2 out of 12. It remained this way through the remainder of Act I.
The Mets were 1794-2187 in those 25 years. For 15 of those 25 seasons, we finished under .500. However, we had 3 division titles, 3 pennants. 2 World Championships.
Act II: The Mets began Act II in a far better place than we started ACT I. Unlike 1962, when we started at the very bottom, the Mets started 1987 at the very top. Defending World Champions. Cant get any better.
Just 7 years into Act II, Bud Selig became the most despised man in Baseball since Walter O’Malley moved the Dodgers out of Brooklyn. Selig did the unthinkable and for the first time since 1904 there would be no World Series. Selig needed to do something.
In 95, Baseball was re-aligned. There would now be three divisions. And a wildcard! Suddenly 4 out of 15 teams would make the post-season. The Mets now had a better than 1 in 4 chance. Also making it easier for us was that Pittsburgh was moved to the newly formed NL Central. We now had only 4 other teams to beat in our division, not 5.
It didn’t help. In spite of less direct competition and more available post-season slots, the years continued piling up without the Mets playing beyond early October.
This past season another alteration was made to the game steeped in history. Another wild-card was added. Now, 5 of the 16 teams in the NL would see post-season action. Almost 1 in every 3 teams. And yet, the 2012 Mets were, for all intents and purposes, out of it by July.
For the 25 years from 62-86, the Mets compiled a 451 winning percentage. We were under 500 15 of those 25 years.
In Act II, the Mets won-loss record was 2091-2050, .505. Interestingly, however, of these 26 seasons from 1987-2012, we were under 500 13 of these 26 years.
How far have we come?
When you think of Act II, 1987-2012, there are lots of great memories.1987 would see our dynasty continue. We had taken New York away from the Yankees. The pinstripes were ‘the other New York team.’ Later on we’d acquire the best hitting catcher in Baseball history. There would be a Grand Slam single. Endy Chavez ‘saved the day.’ Benny Agbayani represented Hawaii, not Sid Fernandez. The future would be built around David and Jose, not Darryl and Doc.
But yet, in spite of starting ACT II in a better place than Act I, in spite of it now being easier to make the post-season, in spite of directly competing with 4 other teams instead of 9 as we did in 62, in spite of having a 1 in 3 shot of making the post-season as opposed to a 1 in 10, the Mets have fallen short time and time again.
There have been many more avenues to get to the Fall Classic over the last 26 years. But yet the Mets have only appeared in 1 more post-season than they had during our first quarter century.
It makes me feel that the more things change the more they stay the same. Or perhaps, the more things change, the bleaker they become. Something to consider…
About the Author: Rob Silverman
It was 1973 when my dad introduced this 7 year old kid to Baseball and the Mets. It's been a love and passion that has lasted for 40 years, much longer than my first marriage. Since I was little, there've been 2 things I've always dreamed of: 1) Being a successful author and 2) playing right field for the Mets after Rusty Staub retired. Although 4 decades have passed and based on the current condition of the Mets, I have not given up on either dream
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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What you failed to mention is that the Mets won more games in the 1980′s that any other team in the majors.
Yes its tough being a Met fan but I see this scenario. I remember the Braves with with a young Smoltz and Glavine coming into Shea to play the Mets circa. 1990. I could feel the shift in both teams the Atlanta team was improving and the Mets losing started losing. Things were starting to get bleak for us. Maye like my football Giants now. There are ups and downs of all teams including the Yankees. I think our future looks better than the Yankees.
One more thing. Its ironic that the 1962 Mets first year “year book cover” shows a baby. Yes we have every right to complain especially with our ownership. But the cry baby and chicken little approach is wearing thin. We got four young pitchers albeit three of them have growing pains to experience plus a stud catcher to be cautiously optimistic about. We have Ike Davis and hopefully an all star caliber DW. I have seen old hodgepodge Mets teams good enough to collapse due to injuries due to age. While there is no joy in Metsville there is a modicum of hope.
Amen Hotstreak! Well said and as a fellow NY Football Giants fan I totally know the feeling.
Streak, A modicum of hope is nothing new. We’ve had young pitching before, and aside from 5-6 of them the other 70-80 were mostly flops.
You’re right, we have plenty of cry babies, but even more fans that are drunk on Koolaid and never stop thinking they have the next Tom Seaver only to find out it’s the next Ed Glynn.
To each his or hers own point of view. However this site is slanted anti Mets while SNY’s Metsblog is slanted pro Mets. There is a balance. Metsblog is the real koolaid and this site is the cry babies. There is balance. That is said with the Wilpons as owners. But this site is not anti Wilpons it is anti Alderson who is just an agent and while he can’t be trusted he did land us some pretty good prospects. Yes prospects are just that but they are rated in the top 50 or lower. So Harry you can shed your tears in the champagne you have New Year’s eve because in 2013 the Mets won’t be drinking any.
That is the 2nd time in as many days I have heard this site is anti Mets/Alderson… are you talking about the authors or the commentators?
Because if you’re going to try to tell me the authors of this site are anti Mets, then I have hundreds of written pieces from various authors to show you.
Jessep to you and the authors of MMO I owe you an apology for the word anti Mets in my comment. However it is definitely Chicken Little and anti Alderson. Do not get me wrong Alderson blew it on Reyes and the slander campaign against Ike and the way Dickey was treated on the way out were reason to criticize as I agree. But under the circumstances with the prospects SA got us and Ike and DW it is not all gloom and doom for the Mets. This is said in spite of the Wilpons as owners.
yeah sorry Hotstreak but you’re gonna want to go read more than a few select pieces before you paint MMO with a broad brush. We have a very diverse batch of authors here. I was the guy on here supporting Omar before it was “cool” and I’m the guy who said the Dickey trade was a trade made for a chance at something special
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/12/the-chance-for-something-special.html
or that nothing is decided in December http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/12/nothing-is-decided-in-december.html
I think you’re deciding on the entire site based on a few recent posts.
Jessep: Thank you so much for those posts of yours. You’re right on target with reality which is neither Pollyanna or gloom and doom. I consider you the voice of reason here. Lets Go Mets.
Yeah Jessep, why must you always be so negative you Minaya slur-ping, Alderson bashing, sabergoon! LMAO! Hotstreak, welcome to Earth. We mean you no harm. But at this time it is best that you go back to your home planet.
“welcome to Earth. We mean you no harm. But at this time it is best that you go back to your home planet.”
GREETINGS Earthlings,
Hotstreak was removed from our planet Borg for a reason. He is your problem now….How you Air breathers say,’LOL”
May our Alien God Rusty Staub be with you
Anti Hotstreak opinions = Anti Mets?
I dont comment here often, but been reading for at least 5 years. This is the most balanced Mets site I know, and they are the only site with regular features on our rich history and real fan articles that I enjoy reading..
I suppose I’m anti Met to you because I disagreed?
That’s rich. Thanks for the insult.
Harry when you call someone drinking koolaid for giving their opinion what do you expect
in their reply. Harry you had it coming. I said you are entitled to your opinion but you did not think I was entitled to mine..
I said that in the same vein you applied the word crybabies to describe those you disagree with. What I dont understand is how you can call this post which I found fascinating and well researched to be negative. You just seemed to go out of your way to knock what I think is a site that is infinitely better and has more passionate and knowledgeable Mets fans than Metsblog. And that goes for the writers who don’t come off as phony and some of the best regular commenters who on many occasions I enjoy more than the posts.
Harry first of all I like dialogue and differences of opinion almost like a debate BUT as you see I admit when I am wrong such as calling this site anti Mets. Believe it or not if your argument is persuasive I will agree with you. It just so happens you agreed with me to quote you “You’re right, we have plenty of cry babies”. This site at least is not to use your term koolaid as is Metsblog. But IMHO this thread here is piling on the same “woe is me” I am unhappy Met fan. I agree there is no joy in Metsville. But as I said in my first post here there is a modicum of hope or a faint light at the end of the tunnel.
That is so mean to say. I disagree. Metsmerized is the best and isalways up to date with a great mix of opinions. Nothing else like it. Happy New Years Metsmerized!
Thanks for the nice comment. We all work hard to keep the site fresh and diverse. There’s a lot of passionate writers on our team who love the Mets and work hard to make everything happen. This site is a total team effort and comments like yours make all the hard work worth it. You have a Happy New Year too!
The second wild card should have been a beacon of light for Alderson, instead he’s run from it with his head on fire.
With the odds of making the playoffs so vastly improved the days of dynasties are over. A little luck and a team like the O’s can win it all. There are no more locks. Playing to win every season is the way to go. 5-8 year plans like we have is a waste of time. Dealing away your best players for farm fresh eggs is fruitless.
Times have changed, our GM hasn’t.
Awesome Harry. The kool aide brigade is running to Alderson right now for response material.
The second wild card should have been a beacon of light for Alderson, instead he’s run from it with his head on fire.
THIS!
Alderson in my opinion is running from the burden of success…
playoff run in september / october makes it hard to justify not adding payroll or making improvements
Shea Goodbye: 45 Years of Amazin’.
Love this video.
Here’s to a better Act 3 for our team! LETS GO METS!
Tie Dyed, how dare you point out that the better the odds get for going to the post season, the worse we do. What are you trying to imply? Shame on you!
Just kidding!
Thanks MM—
Silly me.
Hotstreak doesn’t need me to speak for him but the way I took his first comment (of course I’m probably wrong) as aimed mostly on those who constantly post negative comments or responses to either article or opinions posted.
I too agree that there is a bit more of an anti Alderso/Wilpon (jury still out on first the second is deserved) lean. I don’t see anything wrong with that as long as this doesn’t turn into a political style debate where regardless of what someone does (in this case Alderson) you bash it because you’re in the opposite party or you follow blindly because you with that party.
I firmly believe in the hope part of his response and its the reason for rooting for any franchise. To think that someone is actually trying not to win (not counting the NBA during pre-lottery years) is just insane and takes away all reason to follow any given sports franchise.
a political style debate where regardless of what someone does (in this case Alderson) you bash it because you’re in the opposite party or you follow blindly because you with that party.
Unfortunately that already occurs from many posters. I guess some on both sides.
Or…(more properly defined) is there is a group who wishes to jump the gun and applaud EVERY MOVE as leading to SOMETHING SPECIAL and those who appear Anti-Alderson (but could care less cause we know he will get fired unless he wins) merely argue with those who seem to be on a mission to blow sunshine up arses either for their own mental well being or because they think they are helping someone else’s….
Most of these arguments and SIDES so to speak didn’t exist until Sandy started having GOOD DAYS and Every move made, Every quote made, Every LACK of movement was seemingly portrayed by a few as being SOMETHING SPECIAL!
Well we have lost more games than when he started….
We have LESS talent on the field than when he started…
A Team that needed a Catcher in 2010
Then needed a Catcher and Bullpen in 2011
Then needed a Catcher, Bullpen, Closer and OF in 2012
And now STILL only THINKS it has a Catcher, Still needs Bullpen, Still Needs Closer, Still needs OF and now needs a Starting pitcher ON TOP OF ALL THAT!
But SOMETHING SPECIAL is going to happen!
Yes we will be the 79 Mets and get the top overall pick! THAT will be Special!
And even if we blow the pick on another SS we don’t need when there is a great prospect OFer everyone thinks is better (read Hawkins) is taken the same SOMETHING SPECIAL crew will break out the word proccessor and tell us all it is SOMETHING SPECIAL!
And to that I guess they mean SOMETHING SPECIAL ED!
Mostly because MetsBlog bans those who disagree with Alderson like myself. You have to actually submit ten comment samples before they decide if you stay or go. I guess my comments and opinions are not allowed to be shared there. And yet guys like Chest Rockwell can vomit on people all he wants for not liking the plan and that’s perfectly fine.
Manny: I haven’t seen Chest post lately. Bur being banned for difference of opinion is terrible.
It is terrible. I don’t use profanity or attack others like that guy Chesty does and like Bayonne Met Fan does here. Those two get away with murder. I’m not insulting those two either, just wondering how they get to comment on Metsblog or here and yet my comments go into moderation and never approved.
LOL@CHESTY…..Good ole ChestRockwell, I loved going back and fourth with him…..Cerrone bans anyone that calls him out on his blatant bias for the Wilpons.
The d’bag I cant stand over there when I used to post was Cerrones BFF Patrick.
The day they banned me I went out with a bang lol….They were actually cackling about what I said about Metsblog being a PR machine for the Mets and how I brought up it was sponsored by SNY which everyone knows is owned by the Wilpons. Ted Berg had the nerve to tell me that the Wilpons didnt own SNY….Sterling Equities did as if Wilpon isnt the Chairman of Sterling….
Anyway I mentioned that it was a conflict of interest to claim you were a non bias blog about the METS yet you(Cerrone)works for SNY basically a Mets station(as Yes is to the Yankees)and at the same time have your Metsblog sponsored by the Mets….Before they change the site up all you had to do was scroll to the bottom of the page and it would tell you this clear as day…..No program whether it be radio or TV show criticizes there sponsors. Thats where there money comes from the sponsors….
After that exchange with Ted Berg who introduced himself to me as a producer at SNy or something to that affect lol….they got me out of there in a Jiffy lol…
I wonder if my buddy HateTheCoupons is still over there on Metsblog lol
BBLB! I cant tell you how I cant stand that d-bag Patrick. If not for him I would not have ever gotten banned in the first place. I called him a Cerrone’s mensch and I was gone. That site is a joke. They post pictures now because they have not a shred of creativity. They get paid to blog about the team and they cant even do that right. Patrick is like Cerrone’s attack dog, cross him and you’re as good as gone. There’s one guy I’d love to bump into IRL.
Lol….They try to hide it but him and Cerrone are very close friends….Theyre like the snooty wine tasters crowd but instead theyre beverage of choice is Draft beers which they sip with their pinkys pointed to the sky…lol…
And yes he is Cerrones attack dog….you cant disagree with Cerrone or here he comes with his pretentious posts…he will attack how you format your sentence to the periods and commas lol…His baseball knowledge nil.
Him Donal & Jessep would get along fine like the Golden Girls
LOL which one is Bea Arthur? I know they hang out together and go to those high society taverns that serve those upscale microbrews. Those snooty basterds. Had to stop following Cerrone on twitter to get away from his craft beer chatter and all the social media crap he thinks he invented.
You see, this is why we always wind up having problems. I know you guys think it’s funny but you’re mentioning them and they aren’t even here to defend themselves. Everyone really needs to stop with the personal stuff. It’s a new year in 2013. Let’s all try to make it the best one ever and commit to being more tolerant of everyone and burying the hatchets.
Hi Joe,
Many of us who appreciate what you have done to bring us MMO feel the same exact way.
That’s why I mentioned before the bigger issue at hand – individuals using MMO as a venue for deliberate, repeated hostile behavior intended not to disagree but to actually humiliate.
You have been addressing that growing trend for a while and I do hope that this time people respect your wishes
I have gone off on the Three Stooges that we laughingly call ownership quite a few times on Metsblog, and I still have the ability to comment. I think ithat once you get past the AI that judges your initial posts, you are free and clear to say what you want. Just my opinion based on my own experiences.
Manny You can even say Alderson SUCKS and I will defend your right to do so. I am not an Alderson apologist but not an Alderson hater either. However if Ike leaves during FA I will blame his regime. I blame him for getting next to nothing on Reyes and treating Dickey poorly on his way out. Alsderson’s 1st round draft picks do not knock my socks out either. However time will tell. I am called koolaid and from another planet. That’s fine we ALL are entitled to our opinions. Good Luck.
Slotsburg now that i have a reply I want to thank you for your initial reply here. Without getting into style of debate lets keep an open mind and listen to the opposition or someone who disagrees with their point of view. That person just might have some good points to change your mind. For instance I wanted to trade Wright and keep Dickey. Then when I read a lot of people wanted it the other way around. I changed my opinion. I said to myself in order to truly rebuild we must do both. I am very happy with the return we got for Dickey. My modicum of hope is not koolaid wishful thinking as a fan. As Jessep posts show we got good prospects by SA this year and last year and we have Harvey, Niese, Ike and Wright which SA inherited..
The problem here is that tons of people debate all the time but nobody ever considers the other side’s argument. Well my side does, but the other side goes “Uh nooooo you’re wrong.”
” Well my side does, but the other side goes “Uh nooooo you’re wrong.”
SIDES?!?!? What is this the Mets fan version of the Movie Underworld.
Vampires(Pro Sandy) vs. Lycans(Anti Alderson)
I like to think Im neutral but I must say Majority of Sandys moves or better yet lack of moves I dislike Strongly. I dont like the plan I’ve seen thus far…
-I like the Dickey trade, and the returning prospects
-I liked the trade for Wheeler— although I think the Mets gave up a lot by sending money over with Beltran as well….. but if thats what HAD to be done to acquire a prospect you believe in so be it.
-I liked the early extension to Niese hopefully they do the same for Ike.
-I liked the Capuano,Byrdak signing
-Turner signing although I was disappointed Turner didnt get more playing time…after all he was a BIG part of the teams offense the year prior I cant recall how many key/clutch hits & RBI’s he had in 2011.
-I liked the Mets 2011 draft under Chad MacDonald.
-I like that with Alderson now in charge Jeff and Fred play the background and arent seen or heard from as much…Although I think that is due to Freds blunder when he blasted his team to the Media under Sandys watch calling the team snake bitten and Wright a good player not great etc. And Jeffy recently snaking himself into the public eye at the Winter meetings then a cameo on WFAN with Francessa.
Now my hate list is too enormous to post…..but I’ll give a few
-I hate the 1 yr deals they do not benefit the team only the player. A 1 yr deal with a team option would be fine but instead the Mets sign a Hairston,Capuano to 1 yr deals and when they exceed expectation they head to the open market. Where as if there was a team option yr the Mets could hold the player for 1 more year or said player could be used as a trade chip.
-I hated all other trades besides the Dickey,Beltran deals.
-We were told this regime would sign mid level players around $5-7M a year type players and that they wouldnt spend big money on positions like relief pitching since the position is so volatile yet the only such deal between 5-7M went to Frank Frank a relief pitcher.
-They blatantly lie to the fan base every year…Like clockwork Sandy goes on air and pledges to improve the team and this year mentions how the OF will look totally different in 2013 lol… or when he told season ticket holders we’re gonna do everything in our power to re-sign Reyes the lies he told this year at that same event lol..
-Not trading Reyes yet letting him walk for Nada
-Terrible draft in 2012….not a lot of upside at all
-The new organizational hitting approach teaching hitters to be passive…and take pitches…Your lineup should be versatile with different hitting styles not just 1 approach
Speaking of that approach in regards to Duda…He has always been a patient hitter and he did well with this approach in the minors as well as in the pro’s in 2011 but we kept hearing Collins say Duda has to be more aggressive at the plate in 2012 which he did and the results werent great…let him play his game.He was fine in 2011 pitchers were actually pitching around Duda in 2011 to pitch to David Wright for crying out loud.
I’ll stop here
“Underworld”, Great film series by the way BBLB. Small spoiler alert. In that film series if I remember correctly the Lycans were originally sub servants to the Vampires.
Mr North Jersey,
“if I remember correctly the Lycans were originally sub servants to the Vampires.”
Lol….Yes you are correct thats exactly why I mentioned Anti Aldersons as the Lycans…lol…
Well that’s fair. But a lot of people just ignore the good moves because of their agenda.
They’re the ones turning this into a sides thing, should’ve been clearer about that.
Also, Duda sucked last year because he was more passive not more aggressive. His swing % was 44 in 2011 and 39 in 2012.
I dont think they necessarily ignore it…I honestly believe they feel those moves arent good moves due to the fact that Alderson seems to be putting ALL his eggs in one basket and that basket being “PROSPECTS”….And as Mets fans we dont have a stellar history when it comes to cant miss prospects….
People whom are Pro Alderson can only point to prospects when mentioning Aldersons good moves…the problem with that is none of these prospects have produced anything yet so you cant automatically say it is/was a good move. If these prospects dont pan out which is a strong possibility then all of this would be for not.
A lot of pro Alderson guys have tried to compare Aldersons moves to that of Cashen. Which in my opinion is ridiculous, because Cashen had a 2-pronged attack….he added big league talent at the same time he was rebuilding the Farm…Some moves worked out Gary Carter,Mex etc while moves like Foster and others didnt work…but by doing this Cashen simultaneously strengthen the whole ball club…
That 86 team wouldnt have won with a lineup full of just prospects or one full of just Vets….Cashen had a mix of Vets whom were winners (Keith Hernandez)who werent used to losing and cocky confident vets(Gary Carter)outspoken leaders whom those prospects followed their lead.
Alderson plan seems to be a team full of prospects from the farm and David Wright. some people are also under the impression that next offseason when Santana comes off the books that Sandy will start signing big name free agents….which i doubt and would be no different than what the marllins did last year. You dont magically build a team in one off season. and where I think Alderson has failed is he is not building up the big league club just the farm system and he is doing it by weakening the Big league club trading away there best talent.
An excellent article and good contrast of the two quarter centuries. Speaking of the last 25 years, it shows the buffoonery that is called the NY Mets. The organizational problems pre-date Alderson, Minaya, and Phillips. There is one constant over the last 20+ years…As they say, it always starts at the top.
Hotstreak
That’s exactly the point I was hoping to make. Of course we will disagree and I’m fine with that. As long as it doesn’t become a “Well Alderson sucks no matter what” or “Alderson is great no matter what” type of party politics debate. Unfortunately there are times when the debate here or some of US posting those debates teeter close to that territory. That being said. NEVER LOOSE HOPE!
Good post and thanks. I just told Manny I will defend his right to say Alderson SUCKS. If you do not use profanity or ethnic, sexist or sexual orientation slurs you should not be banned. Nice talking with you Sloatsburg Met Fan. My hope is based on tangible prospects and good players we have. After M. Donald Grant dismantled the Mets I had no hope. I stopped watching them even on TV. I must admit I got the score on the 11 o’clock News, sports segment. No internet back then.
Hi Rob,
Wonderful article – but I have to take sharp disagreement with you about those early years which I lived through. No matter how bad the teams were, we as fans were not suffering – we were having a great time and thus every one of those few in-between victories felt like wining the world series.
And the point that Hotstreak made about that 1962 yearbook cover (which I own BTW) – showing a baby (actually a drawing of Williard Mullin’s grandson) is very relevant to today. The Mets started completely from scratch – no minor league system or major league roster to build up from. Sandy had a lot more going for him after 2010 and certainly the team was in no dire shape that it needed to be dismantled and re-built.
BTW – to ease the pain of the Mets as they are now, I’ve collected a small library of audio cd’s of play by play broadcasts of so many games from the sixties to relieve it.
FYI: I’ve been blogging for MMO for 5 seasons now. I was thrilled when Joe D. brought me on board. And I still feel honored and lucky to write for this site.
I’m not Anti-Alderson. I’m pro-winning. And, in my opinion, this team is heading in the wrong direction. Just my opinion.
If we become competitive (which I naturally hope we do) then great. Believe me, nothing would satisfy more than writing a blog in which I admit I was wrong and apologize to Alderson.
A few years back I was upset that we hired Collins and not Wally Backman. Now, not only have I been very impressed with Collins’ success with the lack of ability on this team, but I’ll even go as far as to say he may be the best manager we’ve ever had–that didnt win. Gil, Yogi, Davey and Bobby V.
Compare Collins to the Dallas Greene’s and Art Howe’s and Mike Cubbage’s.
This particular blog, however, I made no mention of any specific GM. ACT II includes Cashen, Phillips, Omar and yes, Alderson. It just shows an overall look of our team’s success and/or lack of direction.
At first I thought you said pro-whining lolz
Well Tie Dyed While many of the fans here lament that we haven’t won a WS in 25 years it’s not like we haven’t been to any!
And when you look at the 25 Year drought how does that compare to teams like the Cubs and Boston went through?
Hardly any team has dominated anything for more than a decade. Atlanta is hardly what you can say were dominant. Especially when it came to winning the WS.
The Yankees recently and back in the days were dominant and look how much time in between there was there. Even the Reggie teams…
It takes a good 10 years to rebuild a franchise that had any sustained success. Thats nearly half one of our two ERAs…
And I agree the second ERA has been much better than the first but thats what happenes when you compare a team that starts with nothing loses for most of a decade and then gets high draft picks and first shot at Waivers…
And what you do BETWEEN playoff teams is the key to how long a drought will last.
The Braves have won but never enough to win more than one WS and by being dominant and winning they were denied getting the cream of the Prospect crop in the draft.
The Yankees in the late 60′s were purely horrible and then they collected the kids and when FA came along bought thier way in…They won for awhile and couldn’t get the kids in the draft, what they did get wasn’t good enough to use so they traded them away.
It takes a LONG time to rebuild after having a very good decade because thats 10 years worth of picking at the bottom of the Draft Barrel.
We won two WS in the first ERA because we didn’t win a lot even in the first half of years we won the WS…Lots of picks, lots of kids to build with.
And because we have not been as awful as some would like to say the Omar and Phillips years were, We were short on top 50 talent.
Some here think I have a problem with rebuilding the team with Kids which couldn’t be further from the truth…
I just think they need to understand this is not going to get fixed before this decade is out.
There isn’t enough top picks to make 2015 possible no one we pick from today on WILL be ready by then.
If we want to see a winner and rebuild this franchise then it’s not going to happen till 2019 or beyond.
And Sandy will be long gone before that happens…History will record him as Grant and whoever takes over will be able to do what Cashen did and get all the credit the way Cashen did!
Hi All,
very interesting development in today’s NYTimes:
Ratings for Citi Field Bonds Lowered: Link – http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/29/ratings-for-citi-field-bonds-lowered/?partner=rss&emc=rss
“Sandy Alderson, the team’s general manager, has said the Mets are simply being prudent after years of signing high-priced flops. But he has also said the Mets do not have unlimited funds, something most fans have long suspected even after the team’s owners settled their legal standoff with the trustee representing the victims of the Bernard L. Madoff Ponzi scheme.
Others have come to the same conclusion. On Dec. 21, Standard & Poor’s lowered its rating on the almost $700 million in bonds issued to finance Citi Field, and it said the outlook for them remains negative. The bonds are now rated BB, from BB+ before. That’s two notches below investment grade, junk bonds in the parlance of the debt market.
Jodi Hecht, an analyst at Standard & Poor’s, cited “cash flow volatility,” noting that “a large portion” of the money pledged to pay off the bonds is “game-day revenue,” which includes sales of club-seat tickets, concessions and parking. How the Mets play will affect the prospects for this revenue, she said. Standard & Poor’s “may lower the rating if cash flows continue to decline due to a combination of poor team performance, slow economic recovery, overcapacity in the New York region,” she added.
Attendance has fallen three straight seasons, and the Mets have finished in fourth place four consecutive years.”
In other words – Sandy can try to blame high priced free agents as the reason the Mets have money troubles – but the people who really study the financial problems point to the dwindling attendance. And they are telling the Wilpons that they better put a better team out there quickly or things will get worse.
The Mets did not have money problems until Madoff and when they stopped investing in their own team. As I pointed out yesterday, the Mets averaged almost 4 million in attendance their last two years at Shea. The Madoff scandal broke in December 2008 just after the Mets played their last Shea game. Sure their payroll expanded to $150 million but due to injuries and Wilpon/Omar’s inability to fix smaller problems, the team began to really suck. Then Wilpon brought in Sandy – did not invest a penny in the club, brought the payroll down by 30% and what we have now is a non-competitive club that is virtually unwatchable.
Attendance will continue to go down. The team will continue to lose money. The value of the bonds will drop and the team will suck.
This is no way to manage a ball club – much less a ball club in the number one market in the world!
Right now Wilpon should take his self-inflicted “cash flow volatility” and leave the club to someone else.
Thanks for the link tlagee… I will surely post on this in the morning and will certainly have something to say about that.
No worries mate -
be interested to read your take on it.
Hi Tl,
Thanks for the link – for if nothing more it re-emphasizes that the team is indeed in financial trouble not because of the payroll that Omar put together (if one wants to say they could have been a better team, that is an entirely different issue) but as a direct outgrowth of the Madoff situation and the loans taken out counting on that revenue.
But as you know, I think the Wilpons did it to themselves as well and not due to the team they assembled. This is what they get by treating the average fan with such disdain and indifference while catering to those with money to spend – exclusion instead of inclusion. They build a smaller capacity ballpark and charge outrageous prices for tickets and concessions with the business philosophy that less (fans) can mean more (revenue). I also remember when Citi Field first opened the amount of irate fans calling FAN complaining about left field being blocked off. It got so bad that Dave Howard came on Francesa’s show and said this was typical with new ballparks (BS because the only complaints came from those down the third base line – not those down the first base side absent that expensive and exclusive restaurant angled into the playing field). Many complained about being denied entry by so many entrances.
So who wants to go when being treated as a second class citizen?
Hey Joey,
remember that after the Zambrano trade fiasco Fred banished young Jeff out from any personal involvement – instead he game Jeff the Citi field project, figuring that the project would distract Jeff from causing club trouble under Omar.- Citi Field of course created its own fiasco. The dimensions were wrong and it is way too expensive with too little seating.
Everything Jeff touches…
Not many Met fans know that. Jeff’s whole purpose of the design was a Father’s Day gift for Fred by building him a replica of the ballpark Fred cherished as a kid. The collateral damage was also that nobody knew what they were doing with that trade and John Franco and Rick Peterson were brought in as advisers. What a nightmare. This team has had way too many Keystone Cops moments.
Hi Joe,
As a fan of silent movies, the early Mets indeed has had many Keystone Cops moments and just like those one and two reel shorts from the Keystone studios they gave people a lot of joy and happiness!
The organization these past few years could more be compared to another classic of the silent age – the 1920 “Nosferatu” in more ways than just being a blood sucker. That film ripped off the Stoker estate just as much as this organization is ripping off the fans.
Joe -
don’t get me started on Franco’s relationship with Jeff Wilpon. Franco was a warrior when he frist came to the Mets. He was a treat to watch. But when major leaguers figured out that Franco was getting people out with pitches out of the strike zone they stopped swinging. Franco had to throw strikes and some of his pitches struck the top of the empire state building.
Franco was washed up and was injured. During his rehab, he became very, very close to Jeff – took the kid under his wing. Franco talked Jeff into creating a advisory board including Leiter, Glavine and himself who would have easy access to ownership to air complaints. All three were lefties in the twilight of their careers and all of them had it in for a young upstart lefty named Scott Kazmir.
We all know what happened next. The team was embarrassed – as was Fred who does care about his image (don’t know if that is true anymore – he’s been traumatized by Madoff and the suicides.) Fred “hid” his son in the Citi Field project.
Hi tl,
Is that really true those players had it in for Kazmir? If they were so influential with Jeff, one would think they’d have him get back more than Zambrano who after his rookie season was really quite awful – unless Rick Peterson promised them he really could fix poor Victor’s problems.
Victor became the target of many Met fans who took it out on him for being traded for Kazmir. That has been why I have been expressing the same concern for Wheeler and d’Arnaud if they get off to slow starts – especially now because there are so many fans busting at the seams already. I was against the moves that brought them here but that doesn’t mean taking it out on them for something that was out of their hands. Wishing them well.
Much like what happens with the Mets PR whispering in their favored sports writers ear disparaging things about players (i.e. Dickey) there were published reports that Kazmir was a jerk – something about not respecting his elders and playing music too loud in the clubhouse. It was pretty much a smear campaign to dump on the kid. They also leaked that Kazmir’s machanics were all screwed up and he was an injury waiting to happen.
I don’t think you need to be a genius to figure out where it came from.
Kazmir, as a young lefty was going to take someone’s job – that was for sure. Instead of seeing if Kazmir was in fact an injury waiting to happen they traded him for an pitcher who was already injured and by the way, couldn’t throw strikes.
Hi tl,
Didn’t know Jeff was behind the Zambano trade but can see it being one of his design – as the ballpark that Joe D. alluded to was designed to be a present to his father.
But even if Jeff was in charge of the new park’s design, Fred had to be aware of it’s many shortcomings (i.e., blocked view of left field, all the exclusive entrances and the high cost of tickets caused by losing 10,000 seats) and did nothing to stop it. But then, have to give Jeff credit for the rotunda and tribute to Jackie Robinson which I still think is a touch of class.
Which just goes to show – nobody’s perfect – even Jeff could do something right.
Joey, I live in Australia and haven’t been to Citi Field yet – though I’ve heard glowing reports about it.
That’s not the point though. The way I look at it – they built a beautiful casino for high rollers. Unfortunately, all the games are fixed to give the casino owners the maximum take on the tables.
Hey, I got an idea that might work…why not put a competitive team on the field next year?
you know “If you build it they will come…”
That would help so much more than alienating their fan base and gutting the team. They might even make ssome money out of it.
Sorry all that I have been such a wet blanket about the team lately.
I am still ticked that they didn’t re-sign Reyes after the 2010 season but are trying to shove things like “core” and “future” down our throats.
Hi tl,
You just blew me away letting us know that you live in the land down under! Wow.
I actually like the way the stadium was basically designed – sitting in that upper promenade it does feel as if one has been taken back 80 years and sitting in one of those old fabled ball parks we only see pictures of. That part of it is great. It’s the other things that ruin it completely.
Don’t even know if the high rollers will come back to the casino.