15
2012
Seven Player Deal Between Mets and Jays Getting Ever So Close
An article by 
Updated by HoJo’s Mojo at 5:30 PM
The Mets and Blue Jays are getting ever so closer to finalizing a seven-player deal that will send R.A. Dickey to Toronto for what could be a bounty of top prospects.
The latest unconfirmed reports have the Mets acquiring the Blue Jays’ top prospect C Travis d’Arnaud and one of pitching prospects Noah Syndergaard or Aaron Sanchez. Additionally, catcher John Buck and a lesser player could be included in the deal as well.
In addition to Dickey, the Mets will part with catcher Josh Thole and a top prospect that has yet to be named. It’s this mystery prospect that has Twitter and the Mets blogosphere all buzzing.
My feeling is that this deal will be done by tonight.
Updated by Joe D. at 3:00 PM
Things are really heating up now…
Multiple reports say the Blue Jays and Mets are very close to a deal and that something could eventually getting done.
What we know:
- Catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud is definitely in the deal.
- Outfield prospect Anthony Gose is not in the deal.
- The deal is bigger than first thought and includes seven players. Three players to the Jays, and four to the Mets.
- Toronto wants a catcher back in the deal, probably Josh Thole says Mike Puma.
- The Mets will also get a pitcher back, Noah Syndergaard, who pitched at Single-A last year, speculates Mike Puma.
- Dickey is willing to work on an extension deal with Jays who won’t do a trade without it.
Keep your dial set here for the latest…
Updated by Joe D. at 11:30 AM
Highly regarded catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud is headed to the New York Mets in the swap for R.A. Dickey, a major league source told ESPN New York.
“The catcher will have to be in the deal if it is to get done,” the source said.
A scout who has watched d’Arnaud said: “A chance to be an offensive catcher with .275 BA, 20-25 homers. Works with pitchers well and calls a good game. Still needs work blocking balls to his right. Future good No. 6 hitter with potential leadership.”
One thing that has gotten little mention is that d’Arnaud was limited to 67 games and had his 2012 season end June 25 at Triple-A Las Vegas because of a knee injury suffered sliding into second base. The catcher suffered a torn posterior cruciate ligament in the left knee.
Also, Dickey is “willing” to talk extension with the Blue Jays once the deal is agreed upon. I guess they will have some sort of a negotiating window. He had been looking for at least $26 million in a two-year deal from the Mets, but that was an “olive branch” which the Mets did not accept.
I would expect Dickey will now want full market value after seeing Greinke and Sanchez get the money they got.
Updated by HoJo’s Mojo at 11:30 AM
The Blue Jays will not trade for Dickey unless he agrees to an extension according to Jon Heyman and Ken Rosenthal.
Joel Sherman is confirming (or reporting) that Anthony Gose is not included in the reported trade that is waiting on a medical review and the okay by Dickey on an extension deal.
Reports are filtering in that the Mets are also parting with an unnamed Top Prospect for Travis d’Arnaud.
Lots happening still…
Updated by HoJo’s Mojo at 9:00 AM
Here is the latest news on the R.A. Dickey front according to several of the reporters covering this still developing story:
More than a few reporters are now indicating that the Blue Jays and Mets are very close to a trade that could send R.A. Dickey to the Jays.
Initially, the Los Angeles Angels and the Baltimore Orioles were also engaging the Mets on Dickey, but at one point yesterday both teams seemed to drop out leaving Toronto as the lone suitor at the moment. Of course that could always change.
Once Zack Greinke, James Shields and Anibal Sanchez came off the board, interest in Dickey ramped up and the Mets appeared to have more discussions with teams than they had at the Winter Meetings and fielded calls from as many as 6-7 teams on Friday which ultimately became narrowed to the Rangers, Jays, Angels and Orioles.
The Orioles, Rangers and Angels eventually all dropped out according to several reports that were citing team sources, leaving the Blue Jays as the lone suitor for the reigning Cy Young winner.
Late last night, Jon Heyman then was the first to report on WFAN that the trade was all but completed, although no specifics are available at this time.
The Mets and Blue Jays have reportedly discussed players J.P. Arencibia, as well as prospects Travis d’Arnaud and Anthony Gose, but if d’Arnaud is included, Heyman added that the Mets would be sending more pieces than just Dickey alone. Some of the buzz out there suggested that Jon Niese could be going, but I couldn’t find an outlet that actually cited a team source which makes it unlikely to me. However I would imagine the Mets would have to sweeten the pot to get d’Arnaud who they seem to covet.
What all reports do seem to agree on is that Anthony Gose will most likely be at least one of the players coming back to the Mets. Nobody disputes that.
The issue for now seems to be that the Blue Jays want a window to negotiate with R.A. Dickey about a contract extension once the medical reports have been reviewed. But several sources are saying that it’s doubtful that Dickey won’t play out his option and become a free agent after the 2013 season.
Of course we will stay on top of this throughout the day, so keep checking back for the latest updates.
Original Post by Dan Valis at 12:00 AM
Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports is reporting that the Mets are on the verge of a deal to send R.A. Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays in exchange for prized Prospect Travis D’Arnaud.
According to Passan, D’Arnaud being in the deal likely means that this trade has expanded to include more pieces being swapped between the two clubs.
This trade is not finalized yet, and there is no official report that an agreement has been reached. We will continue to monitor this as the news breaks.
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a staff writer for Mets Merized Online. I am a Mets team analyst with a focus on the minor league system, as well as the major league club. I am a lifelong New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. You can follow me on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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People on Twitter are going nuts over this…
But yeah, the main centerpieces are Dickey and D’Arnaud.
I’m really interested into seeing what is going to be worked out here.
With the Mets luck if this happens, TD will turn out to be a bust and Dickey will wind up in the WS. I don’t get too excited about anybody we get. After the George Foster’s, Bobby “Earplugs” Bonilla, Saberhagen, Alomar, Bay, etc… I don’t get to pumped up until these guys perform as expected.
It has nothing to do with Alderson, I’m actually one of the few who thinks he’s going about rebuilding the entire organization the right way. We’ve had our share of acquisitions with great expectations and have been unlucky most of the time. Of course there’s the Piazza’s, Olerud’s, Hernandez’s that worked out great but I temper my enthusiasm until they actually perform because we’ve been burned far more than not. I do love the idea of getting d’Arnaud though.
I feel like there’s some sort of coincidence that the better acquisitions in team history are rentals that ended up re-signing, like Piazza and Hernandez. This trade would be more along the lines of Cone, who was a future star under team control. Let’s hope he works out like Cone did.
I’ve maintained that Sandy, for all the short fused fans with whom he has to answer, is building this much in the same manner as Frank Cashen did some 30 years ago… If D’Arnaud is coming back; this could definitely be his Cone.
What I’m afraid of are the the prospects the !ets may have to include to acquire d’Arnaud. Pitching will be the key to any success this tea, has in the future. Players like Fulmer Mateo Montero along with the likes of Familia and Mazzoni should be off limits. I also hope Flores isn’t n lauded in any parts of this deal. We’ve watched him grow fo several years now and I really want to see what becomes of him in a Met uniform. We already lost FMart. If we can keep thisdealdown to just losing Dickey and maybe Thole I’m fine . Actually I. Good with it anyway , I just hope we can continue to hang on to all of our prospects
While I wouldn’t mind the upgrade at catcher, why Gose? Gose is Castillo but in outfield form. We already have to look at that with Tejada. I hope Alderson can do better than that but I lack faith in him.
If only the Mets had cash, could try to bring Reyes back if they’d give him up.I’m sure they’d love to dump the contract since it’s heavily backloaded.
TDA works for me, Gose is not who I would look for in an outfielder. Duda, Gose and Kirk? If Kirk and Duda live up to their power potential then maybe it works but they need to show it.
Ok, maybe now Castillo but still doesnt seem like he’s the one they should be looking at.
If he can play GG level defense in CC, and be the Castillo from Miami (as in, early 20s and well before the Mets got him) then he will be an all-star.
and he projects to have way more power than Luis ever did.
ok these Castillo comparisons have got to stop. it’s not even close. stop already.
I wouldn’t go that far. Let’s see the full trade first.
Besides, the Jays probably see the Red Sox in shambles and the Yankees looking very old and vulnerable and figured the time was right to strike. This gets them a top starter which they needed.
This trade can be mutually beneficial.
Anxiously awaiting the final details….
Kind of torn here – although I fully understand the need for this trade, especially if we pry their prize pitching prospect, along with others.
We’ve got our first CY award winner since Gooden and first 20 game winner since ’92, and he won’t be back next season for us fans to really enjoy that. With the % of prospects that flame out, crossing my fingers that at least 1 coming over is someone we’ll all enjoy rooting for, for the next 6 years or so.
well, we will just have to get another one of each this year. And maybe toss in a ROY too?
I would love to get Bonafacio in the deal somehow. Keep Gose and throw in Bonafacio.
Would Dickey and Parnell for D’Arnaud and Bonafacio be fair?
I think we need to count on Parnell as being one of the positive pieces to keep in an awful bullpen. Including him in the deal would just make an existing weakness weaker.
also a few other comments:
Gose if he played a full season in majors would make him one of the top strikeout guys. He would be on pace to have 170 strikeouts. Not good.
BUT..if he had to be in the deal to get D’Arnaud then so be it…but the Mets should take money saved and just go get Cody Ross. Ross is the best of what’s left..but he’s gritty and it would make a good line-up.
Quite amazing. A shrinking fan base celebrates the official pronouncement of the New York Mets as the newest addition to the growing list of small market teams that have few fans, celebrating the addition of future stars and in reality a future of failure and failure of failure. Pittsburgh is proud to be replaced by the Queens Mets. Even Pittsburgh, KC etc never dumpred a bagting king and Cy Young king in back to back seasons. Kepp celebrating. Someday Fred will croak.
How about a fair deal for all parties? Just because we are NY Mess fans, that intitles us to fleese other cities? Don’t you think there must be someone who can fleese us? They get paid to do a job, just like us.
I think that getting D’Arnaud will be a great cornerstone and something to build upon for the future. Dicky is a great story and did a GREAT job last year, but with him we finished 4th.
We need to lay a foundation for the future and must sacrifice a good player who is aging like fine wine.
Lets get this done and move on.
Lets’ Go Mets
Well said billyboy!
The thing about Gose, and I’m not that big on him as a centerpiece either, is that he is a terrific defender in CF. He is better than Kirk in CF right now, and with Duda in LF you need a top flight CF to cover some ground that Duda doesn’t. However, getting Gose is almost redundant for the Mets as I see him as a clone of Matt Den Dekker: lefty hitting, speedy, Gold Glove caliber defender, but heavily strikeout prone. So, having said that, I would guess maybe Den Dekker and Gose might be swapped in the deal as a lateral move, and MDD has somewhat more power that might appeal to the Jays in their hitter friendly park. PLUS, getting Gose AND D’Arnaud make the Mets stronger defensively up the middle at key positions, along with Tejeda at SS to give the Mets a solid C-SS-CF defensive lineup. Pitching and Defense win, so with a solid rotation and up the middle D all thats left is improving the bullpen and finding a RF (Hairston / Kirk platoon in RF?) But with the snails pace this front office moves, it might be 2020 before that happens!
LOL
You’re right, MDD & Gose are similar players, with MDD having more pop. But Gose is 3 full years younger than MDD, is faster, and steals more bases with more 3-baggers and scores more runs. And Gose is at least 1 year closer to the Bigs than MDD. i didn’t initially, but after reviewing his historical stats more closely, i think he’d be a great piece to the trade. Based on last year’s partial MLB Season, he’d profile out to 45 Sb’s, 9 Triples, 21 Doubles, & 75 runs scored. Not bad for a 22 yr old (last year). T d’Arnaud, however is the key piece. i hope the Mets check his knee out real close.
And on RA. i luv the guy but, as others have said, we did finish 4th with him during his career year in 2012. Time to move on, for the right deal. This looks like a good deal for us if it’s Dickey +? for d’Arnaud + Gose +?
And why wouldn’t RA sign an extension with Toronto if the Jays want to do it? Otherwise, he goes into ’14 / ’15 as a 39 / 40 yr old F/A.
This is a Tom Seaver mistake written all over again.Do you really think D’Amaud is going to be a difference maker. And catcher who already he has knee problems, i don’t think so, or maybe he’s another Johnny Bench or a Reggie Jackson. This trade is a mistake…
Prospects, especially those who have not set foot on a major league field are never difference makers or franchise players as another in this thread proclaimed.
As for Seaver, yes, I am vaguely familiar with that trade, being in fact the impetus for it. That said, I had no involvement on choosing the players that were coming to us. That was all Grant’s doing.
All the complaining and whining for nothing. Whoever thinks this deal is not something the mets should do is really not up to speed with how teams are winning now a days. Great trade, who cares who the players are.
I believe it was just what maybe 4 days ago when the off-season was a total disaster and the roster was the same and the Mets were doing nothing and the whole world was ending. And very very FEW of us decided to take a patient approach and see what actually happens this offseason rather than assume it’s all over.
I am not suggesting this deal is done, a lot of things can happen. But my oh my how quickly things change in a few days huh?
Lets see the nuts and bolts of the deal, and if a deal happens but hopefully this is a lesson for some that if the deal does happen – you don’t go nuts in mid December because nothing is done
My good man, just because Dickey will now be traded, I wouldn’t make it sound as though it represents an upgrade to the Mets. Are you not getting a little ahead of yourself? What ever the prospects are, it won’t be an upgrade and Dickey’s loss will have a huge negative impact on the rotation which will take it’s toll in the standings. Neither of the prospects we get wont reach their stride for a few years if they do at all. As is the case with most prospects. I had a friend who thought like you did when we traded Seaver, thanks to me. He too was woefully wrong.
Dick Young: The point is that on Decemeber 11 and 12 people here were acting like the Mets didn’t know how to run a baseball team. Like the offseason was passing them by and enough was enough.
IF and I do mean IF the Mets accomplish this deal as reported then they could start to solve two very large needs for the future. Travis D will be on the big league roster, and filling a catcher spot is probably the hardest job in baseball right now if you take a look around.
All I am saying is 4 days ago the world was gonna end and Alderson didn’t know how to run a team and today he’s on the verge of possibly acquiring two very good young players that could help the Mets for a long time.
Patience in the offseason is key and flipping out due to inaction in early December is a waste of time and if this trade happens – that is all the proof I need
I do enjoy this site very much, but aside from yourself, I don’t believe anyone would take the comment threads here as an indicator of the Mets fan base as a whole. Who cares what the threads here leaned toward? Who takes comment threads here or at Metsblog seriously? Or at least seriously enough to juxtapose a retort toward an atmosphere that radiated on December 12? My advice to you is enjoy the articles here, comment freely, but don’t take what is said in the threads that seriously.
thanks for the advice but when I get slammed every day on this website for being patient – I think I’ll be the judge of how I should view things directed toward me.
Personally, I think you’re the best writer on this site, and you take way too much crap from a good portion of this community that you shouldn’t take. If this deal goes through, turns out to be hugely in the favor of the Mets, and you want to gloat a little bit, I certainly wouldn’t hold it against you.
appreciate those comments!
Totally agree with Superhero…..you Jessup are the most level headed writer on this site with the ability to weigh and measure BOTH sides of the arguments. Unfortunately you get bashed and rediculed by most commenters along with some other writers. Keep up the good work and DO take Dick Youngs advice and don’t take whats said in the threads too seriously. I find some of the commenters here to be very angry, prejudiced fans who disparage anyone who disagrees with them.
oh goodness!
tell me more about ME!
haha I’m kidding. Appreciate both your comments very much. Hard to know how your viewed when those who enjoy stay silent but also those who stay silent sometimes do it to avoid the garbage in the comments. Which I have started to understand greatly.
Thanks!
Of course you were correct, jesse. But now the waiting continues as the picture keeps changing. We still dont know whos coming and going yet and Dickeys unwillingness to negotiate an extension may still kill this deal altogether.
of course not ray. But, the fact is they have been very active the last 2 days. And 4-5 days ago they were doing “nothing” and people were acting like it was March already. Things change, conversations happen – this trade could fall through but you can’t say the Mets are not trying to get things done for the betterment of the franchise.
you are preaching to the Choir, Jesse.
Catcher maybe…. Let’s see him do it in the big leagues. That’s why they call them prospects. Let’s see how the trade fills out but moving an ace pitcher- the best in baseball last year- or a top catching prospect doesn’t make us better
its funny isnt it ? you are totally right. where are the self named core by the way ….LMFAO …oh wait ….. THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ my special salute to you out there ….
People are not bashing the fact that we are trading Dickey.
People are reacting to the smear job that is totally unnecessary
If this trade is a mistake, I’ll take these kind of mistakes every winter.
Franchise catcher….yeah, I’ll take that.
I guess we should be getting news of a press conference later today?
If Dickey is gone, I better get a refund on the Dickey jersey I purchased at the Mets Shop after he won the Cy Young and they went on sale. That’s bullshit if they don’t. I will be so mad if I don’t get my $200 back!
It will be a collectible. And they won’t be making any more!
You can come with me and my buddies to the Bronx to see him pitch against the Yankees when the Blue Jays are in town.
I am not complaining and whining, i am just stating a fact and voicing my opinion.
Why do teams keep there number 1 & 2 pitchers in the rotation ? Because they are a difference maker and win you games. Is it really a great trade, a center fielder who hits like Castillo and a catcher who all ready has knee issues, it doesn’t sound good to me .
BusterPosey had knees issues last year.
The bottom line boys and girls is the Mets finished 4th with Dickey last year winning the Cy Young. Bringing him back does not make the team better. Sure it might make it worse in the short term. That is what building an organization is all about. Dont you think it hurt Detroits line up to trade Granderson a few years back? Sure it did. However, the pieces involved in that trade were instrumental in getting them to the WS this year.
No matter who is involved, there is a risk. That is they way trades are. Signing Dickey to an extension is a risk…what if he hits a ceiling at 38. The odds are he is not going to have another year like this one. Losing Dickey, even if the pieces do not help immediately, will cost the Mets little. With the Marlin purge, the Mets almost are assured of 4th with or without Dickey (if the pieces coming back arent major league ready).
Here is why the Mets need to get D’Arnaud if they can and it has nothing to do with Thole. The Mets need to get him because of the state of catching in the major leagues overall. It is a position that is down. Look at the NL all stars last year. Two of them, Ruiz and Molina, are in their 30s (and moving towards mid 30s). Most of baseball is stuck dealing with guys like Barrajas or Shoppach….guys with a bit of pop but his sub .240. If D’Arnaud can hit .250 or better with 20+ HRs while playing good defense, he is going to outpace most other starting catchers. In other words, the bar is set low.
If the Mets miss this opportunity, what are the alternative in the next couple years? We know there is nothing in the system that is worthwhile for at least 3 years or more. Free agency? Does Buck really interest anyone after 2013? Not likely. It is a thin position all around.
Taskmaster
It doesn’t imatter if you out pace other teams at catcher. You need win collectively….all this catcher stuff is meaningless. Lots of teams win with average catchers like Girardi, Steinbach, Varitek, pyersinski, etc. it’s bout he team not just one position. You don’t pay up to get a catcher , only an ace pitcher. Possibly a shortstop or center fielder as well
Nice double talk.. Mention how it is about team and then throw in that you pay up for 1/3 the positions on the field.
In actuality, you pay up based upon supply and demand. Ace pitchers command such a premium because there are so few of them. The same is true for power hitters. While more than aces, there are few, post steroid, who are legit 40 hr guys. And in this era where catchers who can hit at a young age are moved to other positions, you have to get a good one when you have the chance especially if the rest of your team is weak.
GREG, I ALWAYS CONSIDERED U MORE ENLIGHTENED THAN THIS HATEFUL PALP; IMO, DICKEY IS THE BEST SP CURRENTLY ROSTERED BY NYM PERIOD! NO ARGUEMENT IN HIS 3 SEASONS AS A MET REGARDLESS OF LEVEL(MLB OR AAA) HE’;S ACCOMPLISHED AS MANY Ws AS SANTANA HAD OVER HIS FIRST 5Y EARNING A FORTUNE.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO RATIONA CAUSE TO DOUBT DICKEY’S ABILITY TO CONTINUE OR IMPROVE UPON HIS 2012 SEASON SINCE THERE IS NO NL OSTER THAT ADDED ANYONE PROVEN CAPABLE OF HANDLING HIS KNUCKLER, VIDEO PREP IS USELESS AGAINST A NONREPEATABLE TRAJECTORY PITCH & AS ONLY PRACTICIONER CURRENTLY ACTIVE FAMILIARITY ISN’T A LIKELY TOOL AGAINST R.A.
AS THE ONLY PITCHER IMMUNE FROM TJ ISSUES HIS UPSIDE IN TODAY’S BASEBALL ENVIRONEMENT OF MORE YOUTH, MORE PLATE PATIENCE HIS 3:1 K:BB RATE WILL ESCALATE MORE & MORE! CONSIDER THIS ROGRESSION HIS PERFORMANCE @ AGE 25 > AGE 34, AGE 36>AGE 35,AGE 37>AGE 36 WHY SHOULD AGE 38> NOT BE BETTER THAN AGE 37? IS THERE AN ARTIFICIAL EXPIRATION DATE STAMPED ON HIS ASS? CHECK YOUR HISTORY OF KNUCKLEBALLER LONGEVITIES.
Perfectly said, ’62!
Great words as always, 62!
’62 – That is a classic post!!! Tell ya what I’m goin’ to do – print it on parchment, attach to driftwood and smooth it out with the finest lacquer.
That’s the thing about Dickey – the knuckleball travels on a unpredictable trajectory – it’s like he’s throwing a legal split-finger spitball without the risk of any wear/tear on his arm.
I don’t want to fault-find right now, because his story is so wonderful, but the Mets should have given him what he asked for without including a no-trade clause. Then, his trade value would have increased. I don’t know why the front office missed that very easy step. First, make him happy. Second, trade him for players that may make you more happy.
I am choosing to ignore the recent negativity that has pointlessly emerged. RA is/was a wonderful Met, a great ambassador for our team and for the sport we love so dearly. No one will ever change my mind about that.
WOW!!!! And the Dickey SMEAR CAMPAIGN begins…http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/amazin_won_knuckle_under_dickey_nZaBsu40qLaw5u4yNhfcKP
They just CANT let one player go out without BASHING HIM!!!
And I know the Mets are behind this because it always happens with them every freaking popular player they let go or trade they bash on the way out. The NY media gets blame yes but I know the Mets are behind this somehow….The Yankees never dont do this, the NY Giants dont do this,Rangers dont do this, The terrible Jets dont even do this which is more evidence this is a Mets practice we see it time and time again.
And whats worst is this trashy article was brought to my attention by that SHILL Kevin Burkhardt…whom wrote……
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“KBurkhardtSNY@KenDavidoff, you nailed it today. ”
https://twitter.com/KBurkhardtSNY/status/279952765185314816
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
***Now all of a sudden Dickey was a selfish player whom was full of himself****
Really, BBLB, that article is appalling. I never remember such trashy things said of Dickey–the whole bit about his teammates is news to me.
Disgusting. This guy was about the only reason I would go and buy a tickets to see the Mets, let alone turn on the t.v. from July on last year.
Ugh!
Is Dickey beyond reproach? Why is he unwilling to negotiate a deal with the Bluejays? whats that all about? revenge? I dont know, but this is not helping the mets, that I know. Also He was the one who chose to criticize management at the christmas party. He also made a point of using the media at the winter meetings to call attention to himself. I just hope he doesnt sabotage this trade.
revenge?
maybe being from the south, he doesnt want to be THAT far from his kids ?..maybe the tax rate in Toronto affects his bottom line? maybe he just wants to be a Met for life like your idol David Wright
lol
you guys are absolutely batsh*t crazy to bash Dickey.
Sandy could fart in your mouth and you would call it the latest cologne
tempting as it is, I wont lower myself to the gutter to converse with you.
the gutter would be an upgrade for you
Flight from Toronto to US south is about same as NY to US south-plus our planes leave on time…our tax rate is now lower than NY and we aren’t broke. It’s funny how bloggers always state that x player doesn’t want to go to Canada when they are losing someone they don’t want to lose. Toronto is a very easy city to move to and a great city to live in. They play in the US half the time and have the winters in Florida. What’s not to like? You will also get to see him beat the Yankees more often than if he stays a Met.
If he doesn’t want to be a WS contender he shouldn’t come.
Who else is in this deal, if not Gose and what else are we giving up for d’Anaurd? Dickey +? for just d’Anaurd? i know he’s a catcher with great promise, but it leaves us still weak in CF and who the hell else are we giving up?
“Reports are filtering in that the Mets are also parting with an unnamed Top Prospect for Travis d’Arnaud”
As long as it’s not Mateo, Montero, or Fulmer, I’m fine with this.
First, Gose is definitely in the deal & it’s questionable if d’Anaurd would be included. Now, Gose is definitely not in the deal. What the hell? But apparently the Jays are including a package of prospects to go with d’Anaurd?
And who is our ‘top prospect’ included here? Flores?
Why am I nervous? D’Arnaud is the big piece here but Gose goes right into center field. Seems fair. Arnaud coming off knee surgery and does not have a major league at bat. Dickey won Cy young. Gose should be in the deal. Or Syndergaurd nat least. Who else can they be getting?
Dickey under control for 3 years had better net us more than d’Anaurd and some other top Toronto prospects. And Gose is actually key here, because yeah, he’d be plugged into CF.
Peter, for our sake, hopefully relief pitching will also be included in this package of players we’re getting back. We missed out on Lannan and Adams, so there better be help for the pen.
Also agree that it should not be Mateo, Fullmer or Montero!!!!
I find it hard to believe that Gose isn’t in the deal…
Apparently, he will be only if Dickey signs to an extension with Toronto and most likely, it won’t happen.
Latest from MTLBR is that once deal is done, Dickey will talk about an extension with Toronto. Again, Dickey under control for 3 years is a VERY valuable asset. Gose would have to be part of that deal.
i don’t get that IF deal is agreed upon AND Dickey signs an extension, we would also have to add ‘a top prospect’ to get Gose included in the trade. Baloney. RA Dickey under control for 3 years should get that deal done. Toronto bluffing. Maybe MDD included or even Kirk but not Wheeler for sure, nor Nimmo or Montero, Robles, Ynoa, Mateo, Fulmer, Pill or Tapia. Maybe Flores would do it for them, or Mazzoni.
when it comes to Public Relations
The Mets = NY version of the Boston Red Sox
almost every player that does well in boston and leaves gets trashed on his way out
hell they had Theo Epstein escaping in a gorilla suit 1 year after he won them a WS
& they wanna raise prices
after this?
#ToneDeaf
#Clueless
#ThankGodForOtherSports
I do not care about Lannan. And Adams is suspect because of his age, coming off surgery and the money he would want. J.P Howell is the Pitcher I really want them to get to go with Edgin. That gives them solid Lefty relief pitching. There are still some right handed arms to be had for the bullpen,,, Capps is a fit and maybe Myers as far as probable price and years wanted. Lindstrom, Frasor could help, Devine,Lyon, Oviedo. I think they need to sign three bullpen arms at least. One lefty and two righties. I say Howell, Lindstrom, and Capps or Myers. Myers probably wants to much. Here is a list of all the right handed bullpen options that are free agents. Rebuild the bullpen with it, Let me hear your opinions
Matt Capps (29)
Brett Myers (32)
Rafael Soriano (33) – declined qualifying offer
Jose Valverde (35)
Brian Wilson (31)
Jeremy Accardo (31)
Manny Acosta (32)
Scott Atchison (37)
Miguel Batista (42)
Brad Bergesen (27)
Todd Coffey (32)
Jose Contreras (41)
Francisco Cordero (38)
Juan Cruz (34)
Joey Devine (29)
Chad Durbin (35)
Kyle Farnsworth (37)
Jason Frasor (35)
Kevin Gregg (35)
LaTroy Hawkins (38)
Livan Hernandez (38)
Jason Isringhausen (40)
Bobby Jenks (32)
Matt Lindstrom (33)
Kameron Loe (31)
Shane Loux (33)
Mark Lowe (30)
Brandon Lyon (33)
Jeff Manship (28)
Kyle McClellan (29)
Guillermo Mota (39)
Peter Moylan (34)
Juan Carlos Oviedo (29)
Vicente Padilla (35)
Brad Penny (35)
Chad Qualls (34)
Ramon Ramirez (31)
Jon Rauch (34)
Francisco Rodriguez (31)
Takashi Saito (43)
Jose Veras (32)
Cory Wade (30)
Kyle Waldrop (27)
Jamey Wright (38)
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/2013-mlb-free-agents.html#t8zuM8MFyR8OR4lS.99
I would throw them back a prospect just to get Gose, as long as it is not a top pitching prospect. It is a tough call, looking at gose numbers he is close to Captain Kirk numbers wise, both strikeout a lot, Kirk has a more power, Gose has much more speed and is a better defender, not the Kirk can not play center.I mean Gose stole over 70 bases twice in the minors. He can fly and that is something the Mets are missing. I do not want to see a 33 year old Rajal Davis coming back in this deal.
As of this morning, the deal had four players coming to the Mets and three to the Blue Jays, according to Mike Puma of the New York Post (Twitter links). Toronto also wants a catcher back in the deal, and that could be Mike Thole.
The two teams are inching towards the finish line, a source tells Passan (via Twitter). At least some players’ medicals have been reviewed and a deal is imminent
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#LRoWW0wPuYg3YT3L.99
What other 3 players can it be?
Syndergaurd is involved in the deal. That is another pitcher the caliber of Wheeler and Harvey who is one to two years away.
Huh?
You are saying the Jays are including a Zack Wheeler rated pitcher plus D’Arnaud for Dickey and chump change?
Wow if that’s true.
I could see the Mets trading multiple players to get the pieces they want. RA Dickey and Danny Murphy for D’Arnaud and Gose seems to make sense. Murphy is better suited as a DH in the AL than a 2nd baseman. I see comments that Jon Niese could be included, which is absurd !!! Niese is signed at a team-friendly rate and is just now coming into his own as a solid #3 starter for years to come.
d Arnaurd, John Buck, Synderguard, and another player, for Dickey, Thole, and another player
So let me get this straight. Sandy’s first big move was trading Beltran for Wheeler. His 2nd big move was not signing Reyes and his latest big move is trading Dickey and Thole for the BJ’s top three best prospects.
“Sandy, can’t you see…we’re in misery…but you made your mark and without a loud bark..there’s a future for us you see”
yes….in 2011, Sandy inherited the best closer on the trade market at the time. Got nothing back but salary relief. He also inherited the best position player on the trade market. got back Wheeler
Under Sandy, the mets have had PR issues with Reyes ( box of chocolates ? ) , Ike ( the serial movie theater customer ? ) , Dickey ( the self-centered Cy Young award winning philanthropist )
I can go on and on with how bad Sandy has been to this team but it wont matter. Your standards have been set pretty low anyway
“Sandy inherited the best closer on the trade market at the time.”
Ya, that just proves why it was a buyer’s market. He wasn’t even a real closer.
We’re getting Noah Syndergaard back?!?! Holy crap!
Scouting reports from baseball america
Travis d’Arnaud
Scouting Report: D’Arnaud has the tools to become a big league all-star if he can stay healthy. He’s a rare catcher with the potential to be an above-average hitter with plus power. He doesn’t walk much but makes consistent hard contact, getting hits even when his timing is off or he gets off balance. He has the bat speed and strength to hit plenty of homers and lets his power come naturally, employing a short stroke and all-fields approach. Though he has played in extremely hitter-friendly home ballparks the last two years, his pop is legitimate, as 18 of his 37 homers have come on the road. D’Arnaud made good strides with his defense in 2011 by working with then-New Hampshire manager Sal Butera, who caught in the majors for nine seasons. Those improvements carried over to 2012, when d’Arnaud threw out a career-high 30 percent of basestealers. He has average to plus arm strength and has refined his footwork and throwing accuracy. He’s a solid receiver who moves well behind the plate, and he’s a good leader who works well with his pitching staffs. As is the case with most catchers, he’s a below-average runner but isn’t a liability on the bases.
Could get Syndergaard, d’Arnaud, AND Sanchez back. That would be an INCREDIBLE return
A friend of mine (Jays fan) told me that he’s hearing the Mets are getting back D’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and Sanchez.
From BA
Noah Syndergaard
Scouting Report: Syndergaard’s big frame gives him an imposing presence on the mound, and his fastball only adds to it. His heater ranges from 92-98 mph with excellent downward angle and armside run. His curveball has gained velocity since he signed and now sits in the mid-70s with downward action. It’s inconsistent and eventually may develop into a slider, but it gets outs and features good spin. He maintains his arm speed well on his mid-80s changeup. He has very good body control for his size, which leads to quality command and control.
The Future: Syndergaard and fellow 2010 sandwich pick Aaron Sanchez have risen through the minors together and will team again in 2013 at high Class A Dunedin. Both have the ceiling of a frontline starter, with Syndergaard not quite matching Sanchez in stuff but outshining him in terms of polish.
From BA
Aaron Sanchez
Scouting Report: Sanchez has the best stuff in the system and some of the best in the entire minors. His quick arm generates fastballs that range from 94-98 mph with little effort. His curveball has tight spin and gives him a second plus pitch, and even his changeup features effective late movement. There’s still projection remaining in his body as well. The knock against Sanchez is his command. He has averaged 5.0 walks per nine innings as a pro, and he has gotten many of his strikeouts when lower-level hitters have chased pitches out of the zone.
The Future: Even if he doesn’t add any strength, Sanchez has enough stuff to succeed at higher levels. More advanced hitters will force him to throw more strikes, but he won’t need pinpoint command to pitch in the front half of a big league rotation. He’ll advance to high Class A in 2013.
Sanchez sounds like a future reliever from that report, and seeing a video on his windup and delivery, he likes like he could fit that mold. However, I wouldn’t do such move until he grows out of starting.
Check out this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsDJWOC-1kw
If he goes to PSL, I can’t wait for Viola to work with him.
Farewell Dickey. You will have a better chance to win a world series like your former teammate Angel Pagan. We will miss you.
If we get Syndergaard and d’Arnaud this is a coup. I really hope we get Moises Sierra as well….he can slot right into RF. This frees up money too — maybe we put some money into snagging Bourn on a one-year deal if he wants a pillow contract.
Yes Syndergaurd is pitched in A ball last year. Probably moves to double A and is at least a another big trade piece in near future on the level of Wheeler and Harvey as far as stuff. Look at strikeouts to innings pitched.
Noah Syndergaard
Rank: 3
ETA: 2014
Position: RHP
Age: 20, DOB: 08/29/1992
Bats: L, Throws: R
Height: 6′ 5″, Weight: 200
Drafted: 2010, 1st (38) – TOR
Syndergaard throws hard, but he’s more than just a fireballer who rears back and lets it go. He can crank his fastball easily into the upper 90s and he commands it relatively well. His power breaking ball is a future above-average or plus pitch once he starts throwing it more consistently. His changeup gives him a third potentially above-average or better offering. Just 19 in 2012, he has a very good feel for pitching and the kind of big, strong and projectable frame you want to see in a young pitcher. He’s just getting started, but the finished product could be a frontline starter
W L ERA G GS IP H HR BB K AVG WHIP GO/AO
8 5 2.60 27 19 103.2 81 3 31 122 . 212 1.08 2.16
The thought of Harvey, Wheeler, Snydergaard, Niese, and Mateo in the rotation in a few years makes me excited.
Montero & Robles & Ynoa will be pushing the envelope by then also. And guys a step down from them like Fulmer & Pill are also interesting. We may have surplus pitchers to deal. How odd that’ll be.
Thank God that Omar Minaya had the foresight to go after R.A. Dickey and once again the Mets franchise benefits by it.
Wheeler and whatever we get after this deal are all byproducts of the genius that was Omar Minaya.
Add that to players he drafted like Niese, Harvey, Davis, Tejada and we have the makings of a longterm future of consistent success that we never experienced in the 51 years of Mets baseball.
As Dickey said last month at his Cy Young press conference for all to see on SNY, “without the faith Omar Minaya had in me, none of this would be possible.”
Amen.
By the way, when Dickey thanked Minaya and didn’t mention Alderson, it all but sealed his fate that he played his last game as a Met.
Minaya’s positive impact has come to light more so after he was fired than while he was GM. He planted many seeds which have sprouted and grown during his departure and the organization has benefited greatly because of it. He improved the farm system greatly and it continues to improve because of him.
you’re trying real, real hard aren’t you?
Thats a freaking Joke if we get both these guys plus Arnaurd.
Aaron Sanchez
Rank: 2
ETA: 2015
Position: RHP
Age: 20, DOB: 07/01/1992
Bats: R, Throws: R
Height: 6′ 4″, Weight: 190
Drafted: 2010, 1st (34) – TOR
The Blue Jays are showing a penchant for drafting high-ceiling young arms and allowing them to develop slowly. The payoff with Sanchez could be huge, as he fits the mold of the projectable right-hander. His fastball sits comfortably in the low 90s, and there might be more in the tank as he matures. His second pitch is a very good curve, and although his changeup is behind the first two, he does show a good feel for the offspeed pitch. In 2012, Sanchez pitched well with Class A Lansing, although he has struggled with command, walking more than five batters per nine innings. How much he improves in that regard will determine how quickly he can move and just what that ceiling will be.
i wonder what it would take to also get Gose in this deal? Probably, one of our top prospects…Familia? i’d add him to get Gose if that’d do it. And why are we getting John Buck also? Probably a salary dump by Toronto. But do we need Buck? Maybe we trade him before the season starts?
probably let d’Anaurd get some reps on the farm and delay his arbitration clock.
and yes, give the Jays some salary relief.
That should bost Mets into having a top ten farm system in baseball
And probably leave them as the worst team in baseball as far as the MLB goes….
But that Vegas team is championship bound isn’t it?
You really do not understand what is going on do you?
Better than you do!
Astros & Cubs still hold that distinction, Metsie, but nice try.
You sure?
What if Ike is that third player?
Ike is going nowhere, so its a moot point.
So your in the room where the negotiations are being done?
Nope, just been keeping tabs on updates and people in Toronto on whats going on on their front. From the latest update, the 3rd guy is a non elite prospect, so take that any way you wanna speculate.
Exactly what is the latest word on players in deal?
Same thing I’ve heard for the past hour.
Dickey, Thole, and non-elite prospect for d’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck (cash is being kicked in to the Mets to pay off Buck’s contract), and non-elite prospect (my guess is Moises Sierra).
Ahhh as I expected you don’t know squat….
And you do, right? Are you just looking just to grasp straws now in an effort to complain, or maybe you cant believe Toronto can be fleeced just like they fleeced Miami, although the difference is that Toronto has enough of a deep system to sacrifice those guys in an attempt to be relevant in the playoffs for the first time in almost two decades? Understandable.
Yeah but I’m not the one who stated absoloutes…you did…
As for fleecing Toronto…
If the names we know about now stand we will be the ones who will be getting fleeced…
I know you think a lot about these guys and thier celing but the only ceiling your likely to see from it is the one in the basement.
The numbers that Travis has that is giving you all a woody is from Las Vegas….
Reduce BA by .040 points and Power numbers in half….
Worth a Cy Young Pitcher?
Doubt it.
But you Sand People will use it to buy yourself some more time until they fail and then crawl under a rock when we all talk about Toronto being run so well.
That is if Dickey even extends with them so there IS a deal.
Tsk tsk tsk. You can’t go through a conversation unbiased, can you? Sand People? Real mature.
For the record, I wasn’t the one who was pulling Ike Davis out of their ass. You did, although the terms of who would go where was already finalized.
Also, I don’t care for his Vegas numbers, because I’ve seen what d’Arnaud could do beforehand. Saw him play in AA New Hampshire, where his power numbers are not that different. I’m guessing no matter what d’Arnaud and Syndergaard (who’s the last guy Jay fans want to lose for a reason) does, they’ll get the “Wheeler Treatment” until they make it to the majors, in which it won’t take long for either.
Yeah whats my Bias Hitman?
I am biased to keeping Cy Young pitchers instead of trading them for Catchers with knee trouble?
No you are the one who gets information from a Jays Fan and calls it informed and in the loop.
Same guy saying Reyes is now involved in the deal!
Can Ike be far behind?
I hope for your sake these kids are all you think they are….
Cause if they are not it will be difficult for you to post with all that egg on your face!
You seriously think both teams haven’t exchanged medical records on each one of the players each of them are getting back? You think the Mets are gonna let another J.J. Putz situation happen, foregoing a physical on d’Arnaud’s knee?
My sources are NOT from the same “Jays fan” who’s posting here, but nice try. For what it’s worth, don’t worry about my track record, because it’s been proven time & time again to be a lot better than most here.
JJ Putz happened didn’t it?
Medical records were available then did they help?
Has Travis undergone a physical?
“Medical records were available then did they help?
Has Travis undergone a physical?”
Obviously, this piece of news went WAYYYY over your head
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/280346718317473792
BTW, in case you missed it, the mystery guy was Nickeas, so we got rid of TWO crappy catchers in one trade.
Obviously the Cris Young signing went way over yours….
They looked at his medical records too!
We signed him he got hurt 4 games into the season…
Metsie to be fair, his “knee trouble” is not some chronic knee injury. It was a freak incident sliding into a base. The PCL is a ligament behind his knee and he didn’t need surgery which means it was not the highest grade form of the ligament tear.
Also he had no ACL or MCL damage with the knee injury which would have made the injury much worse.
I realize you’ll badly want to find something wrong with this deal but you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Well Jessup you like to use stats to determine the prbability of player decline based on age…
So go that extra mile and look at the statistics on Knee problems once you have had an issue with a Knee….
No it wasn’t an ACL tear….and PCL is still a weakening of a knee which will lead to ACL and MCL at some point…
And this KNEE issue we are talking about is not some IF it is a Catcher who is the one position where the knees go bad even without a freak knee injury to start it all off!
I don’t like the deal because I don’t think we are getting good enough kids for a Cy Young pItcher….
Both should be high value AAA guys and thats not what we are getting!
I also find it highly suspicious that this guy who is the centerpiece of our trade was acquired by them trading away ANOTHER CY YOUNG pitcher to get him and have now backtracked on that and are willing to give up on that CENTERPIECE to et a Cy Young Pitcher BACK!
It says “WE MADE A MISTAKE! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT THE CY YOUNG GUY WE TRADED AWAY TO GET HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE!”
RED FLAG, RED FLAG!
Thank you for your input Dr. Metsie
Yawn…
Read this awesome article at Amazin’ Avenue,
The many crimes of R A Dickey against the N Y Mets
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/12/15/3768600/the-many-crimes-of-r-a-dickey-against-the-new-york-mets
That was tremendous.
Ha!
‘Nailed it.’
“One thing that has gotten little mention is that d’Arnaud was limited to 67 games and had his 2012 season end June 25 at Triple-A Las Vegas because of a knee injury suffered sliding into second base. The catcher suffered a torn posterior cruciate ligament in the left knee.”
Hi Joe D,
Why would injury be cited as the reason the value of Reyes went down but not so with d”arnaud? And why concern over a 38 year old throwing a “hard” knuckler which is still only 80 miles an hour but not also with a young catching prospect who has also suffered with back problems at such an early age?
Yes, health concerns should be addressed as well.
He is knocked for the injury problems. If he was completely healthy he’d be in superhuman untradeable bundy/profar territory.
Reyes’ game is his speed; d’Arnaud needs the ligament to just stay on the field. From what i hear, so long as he strengthens his legs, he should be fine.
Reyes’ game is his speed; d’Anaud needs the ligament to just stay on the field. From what i hear, so long as he strengthens the legs, d’Anaud should be okay.
Would love to know who is doing the player part of the negotiations for the Mets and determining whom to ask for in return. A lot of the credit -one way or the other – is going to Sandy but is that really the case?
Riccardi used to work for Blue Jays
Slight correction. For a few years JP Riccardi took a salary from the BJ org and had business cards that said “Blue Jays” on it; he even put a hat on once in a while But he never worked for us.
Thank heavens we now have AA in JP’s place who does great work, has built up a credible farm system and is now building a winnable team.
most likely Rigney………………….
Hi Jessup,
LMAO. That was a good one at my expense-touche!
For others, take this as an example that those with different opinions can have good natured humor between them instead of being nasty and vicious.
This reminds me of Tom Seaver. Very sad day in Mets history if this happens.
Seaver? We’re really comparing Dickey to Seaver now in terms of trade? Facepalm.
I wonder which of our top prospects is going to Toronto
Most likely Den Dekker,or Flores.
I’d prefer to trade Den Dekker. I really like Flores, but it looks like he will be included in the deal.
I bet its Flores. Nowhere to play him anyway.
I am anxiously awaiting the final details to this trade. I hated the thought of trading Dickey but if we can get the prospects that are being rumored I could live with it and will hope they do well.
Maybe a little hyperbole, but this could be THE trade that defines the Alderson Era.
Or the one that seals it’s fate….
John Buck? Does he play outfield or does this mean d’Arnaud isn’t a lock to open the season?
With all the dopey rules over service time, I would not be surprised if he was in the same situation as Wheeler where keeping on the farm another 31.526 days allows the mets to keep him under control a year longer.
Also Buck might be to offset Dickey’s salary.
It is about building a team that can win over a 8 to 9 year period that also gives you financial flexibility throughout those years. While also having prospects ready when it is time to turnover so we do not fall into this drought of total rebuild. They won 72 games with him at his very best. This is how you do it. It is far from a sad day in Met history but the beginning of a possible dynasty. And Me’ts will soon have an abundance of pitching prospects which also allows them to trade for other players when it is time and also provides amazing depth and rotation options.
See San Francisco, tampa, Oakland, St Louis, Atlanta, the Yankees in the middle to late 90s pitching staffs and position players.And when the Phillies won the world series it was homegrown core players that helped them to win.I would rather the Mets lose in 2013 and win in 2014 and keep winning for the next ten years as apposed to spending 150 mill a year from 2006 to 2011 and still lose. They lost cause they didn’t have a good farm system and no high end prospects coming to contribute. When players got hurt they where screwed.And they where locked into bad long term deals for players past their primes.
And how do you think Toronto is able to pull off these trades. the GM has not spent more than 3.5 mill on a free agent till last year. And that was not a big signing. He has the prospects to go for it and financial flexibility to do so as well. He showed patience and built farm. Now Yankees and Boston are the weakest they have been in years so he is going for it. Prospects are like cigarettes in jail.
Its the start of something not a sad day at all
i agree. This could be a historical trade, particularly if the 2 stud pitching prospects come with d’Anaud.
I still want to wait until the details are fully done.
One thing I will say as a word of caution to those who would be against trading dickey and are trying to praise the blue jays here… the blue jays are in the position they are today because they traded Roy Halladay away. No mets fan i know will be HAPPY to see Dickey go, but if the deal appears to be for the greater good then you should look at it longterm and realize the impact this type of deal could have on the mets for the next 5-7 years.
Yes, it makes sense to trade Dickey only if the package back is a huge boost to the roster and our longer term competitiveness. This deal may be that, particularly if it includes d’Anaud, Syndegaard AND Sanches.
Hi Jessep,
But wasn’t it also a question of Haliday and the money he was demanding whereas R.A. has been offering the Mets an olive branch?
As I said, though on paper the trade seems to have better possibilities for New York in the long term, Tom Seaver also said that with his situation, the front office failed to recognize the repercussions and long-term damage getting rid of a “franchise player” could cause. It ruined the Mets for many years. Whereas Shea had always been a festive place to play, Tug McGraw even pointed out that opposing players hated coming there because it was just depressing place to play in. That’s the problem I see that cannot be found on paper and the ramifications such a move could cause with the players who feel they can still win now and the fans.
Oh, if only those of us and this side of the fence could see R.A. in his true light as pointed out in the attached.
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/12/15/3768600/the-many-crimes-of-r-a-dickey-against-the-new-york-mets
Right but Joey you gotta look at it in the grand scheme of things
Halladay was a 32 year old Top 5 pitcher for the last 6 out of 7 years. I can promise you trading him away was a tougher decision than trading Dickey away.
“Tom Seaver also said that with his situation, the front office failed to recognize the repercussions and long-term damage getting rid of a “franchise player” could cause” — This is exactly why they signed David Wright. RA Dickey is not a franchise player. If he was 10 years younger then that’s different.
Look it stinks that this has to happen. I’m not going to speak an ill word about Dickey. The timing of his emergence and where the Mets are just don’t gel. But I’ll wait to say how I feel about this trade when the real details come out but if the Mets get two significant prospects back then I am sorry to see RA go, but it’s for the greater good.
Hi Jessup,
You are being completely fair with what you say. We just see things differently.
Maybe I just haven’t caught up with the times for it seems many now look at the game more in terms of a chess game than a baseball game with less emotional stimulation as it is intellectual. Won’t say if that is good or bad but will say that years ago we didn’t need a public address system to make us say “let’s go Mets”. That’s why, at least for me, going to a game even ten years ago with the team just as bad was still more fun than it is now.
Maybe that is why less people are going to see the Mets. Even with affordable tickets, there are others as well who find that fun is just not there anymore. As mentioned, today fans need to be prompted to yell out our historic chant and that might just be reflective of there being less heart and soul as there once was. We do see that reflected in most players who look for the money first – unlike R.A.
So for us who might want more than just winnings, we feel R.A. is going to be traded for all the wrong reasons only because they can’t be seen on paper. You’re right, it stinks, but for some of us it stinks too much.
Just my own feelings about it, Jessep. I know there are others who feel like I do and others who don’t so there is, of course, really no right or wrong in this matter.
Old new breeders don’t die, we simply fade away….
They are also in that position because they stayed out of the free agent market and kept all their draft picks the last 4 or 5 years as opposed to forfeiting them.
Ok so we get Buck and D’Arnaud, a top pitching prospect, and a lesser player (preferably an OF). When this deal gets done, we need to shift our focus to signing Ross and/or Hairston and getting bullpen help.
My guess:
Dickey, Thole, Flores to Toronto
D’Anaurd, Syndergaard, Buck, and ??? To Mets
To me, it makes no sense for the Mets to give up Fulmer or Montero if they are getting Syndergaard. It’s basically a wash then and serves no purpose. I think since Thole catches RA, he’s going and that make Buck available since Toronto had JP already.
Now Toronto doesn’t want to give up Travis D, so they needed a sweetener and the Mets reluctantly offered their best minor league hitter who’s blocked by Wright and that’s Flores. But now, the Mets are giving up too much in RA and Flores so Tor has to give up a sweetener…and in comes Syndergaard to the rescue.
This leaves Toronto with a number one starter, his personal catcher who is comfortable catching the knuckler and a great future bat in Flores who’ll be ready to play third or first by summer or 2014 the latest.
The Mets get their future franchise catcher, his back up in Buck and yet another great young starting pitcher who’ll be added to their already impressive stable of future aces. The fourth player supposedly coming us beyond me.
I was hoping the Mets could keep Flores and somehow give up Valdespine and Gorski as the sweeteners in the deal. We’ll see…
Some of you here are out of control and need to be on leashes.
FYI everyone. The Toronto beat writer who originally broke this story is saying that the Blue Jays were not planning to promote d’Arnaud to the majors until July at the earliest. So that’s why the Mets probably want Buck in the deal.
Nice input. Answers my question–that, and Toronto, all of a sudden, would have a catching glut. Thanks.
Hi, I was wondering if you had a link. Would like to add that to our next update. Thanks.
Here you go Hojo, I think this might be where he got it. There is a reference to it here. http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/article/1302871–toronto-blue-jays-close-in-on-r-a-dickey-trade-with-new-york-mets
Lorenzo, spot on. After his PCL freak injury they were planning on bringing him back slowly. Which is why they themselves acquired Buck and also signed Whiteside (whom they just lost via waivers). This is why they want Thole back to platoon with Arencibia.
The Mets would have d’Arnaud and Wheeler together in AAA likely. Make no mistake the knee injury is a risk. Though it’s gotta be a risk you take given the position he plays and his potential which nobody really denies. But that is probably why he’ll start in AAA above everything else
If that’s the case, I hope they give d’Arnaud a physical and if that knee is ok, then the deal’s done. You don’t want another Putz-like situation.
I’d bet anything that if he never got hurt – this deal doesn’t happen. He’d be in the big leagues if it didn’t happen.
It’s a risk/reward for sure.
Both the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) and medial collateral ligament (MCL) avoided any damage which is a big plus
“Every indication was because the MCL and the ACL were sound, there was no meniscus damage, it’s a little less of a concern,” Farrell said. “But any time you’re talking about the position, sure, a knee injury is of some concern.
“It’s an injury that will heal on its own.”
So, if there’s hardly any damage to that knee that will hurt him in the long run, what’s stopping d’Arnaud from breaking camp?
Service time, maybe? If he debuts after a certain date, he’s controllable for an extra year? Every CBA changes the rule on service time so your guess is as good as mine.
I’m anxious to find out the details of this trade!
A lot of people in Toronto are NOT digging this trade. Many feel there is pressure now on the Mets to get this done, given how relations had deteriorated with RA and how awkward it would be should he stay put in NY. Jays have a great rotation as is, its not mandatory to get RA (though it certainly would be nice).
Well, of course they’re upset. We’re getting a few of their top prospects for a 38 year old knuckleballer. I’m sure the fans in Toronto would rather keep d’Arnaud then trade him.
jaysfan, the pressure is actually on the Jays. They’ve invested heavily now in the payroll. Josh Johnson may be a free agent after 2013. If they don’t go for it all in 2013, they may not have as good a chance thereafter. So they now have to protect that investment by shoring up the starting pitching.
On the other hand, the Mets can simply extend Dickey or let him play out the 2013 season. I’m sure you would like to think that his relations with the Mets are now so bad they have to trade him, but that’s not the case. If the Mets called him today and offered him the $26 million/2 year extension he originally wanted, he would jump at it.
Alderson has the upper hand in these negotiations.
I would just like to mention something
Reader “doekie” may have nailed this back in October.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/10/mmo-mailbag-should-we-target-torontos-travis-darnaud.html
It’s funny because for me, I thought Toronto was giving up way too much and so I will gladly be wrong here. doekie wherever you are, tip of the cap.
Thanks!!
And the 2 unknown names so far. How about Flores (who has no place for the next 4 years and he could perhaps be better then Lawrie)?
Hoping for Sean Nolin as their unknown. He had great numbers last year and finished in AA after a couple of starts. And he would become our top lefthanded starter. Something the Mets dont have.
The last report that had any legs mentioned that both prospects weren’t top guys. Which means Flores stays put, but also means their guy likely won’t be a differece maker.
To me, Flores is the non elite mentioned.
This keeps getting better!
Dickey, Thole, prospect
For
D’Anaurd, Snydegaard, buck, prospect
Yeah Joe… Sandy completely, totally, horribly misjudged the market for his ace knuckleballer!!! What a waste of salary this front office is!! Imagine, working for an ownership that can’t afford to put a decent ball club on the field in the biggest market in the world, and still having to listen is fans yapping constantly about an inability to keep up with the younger, more progressive Gm’s in today’s game!!!
I don’t know, at the very least, it looks like Sandy just gave this team it’s best chance to combat those Nationals, phillies, and Braves by 2015 the latest. Right when players like Nimmo, Aderline Rodriguez, Flores, Fulmer, and Montero will be knocking on the door.
Go ahead folks, start ripping this, him, and everything else apart. I, think this guy Alderson is this team’s savior. For the first time in a while, I now see a light at the end of the tunnel and that’s exactly what I’ve been waiting for. Now I know why Wright signed up, RA was never going to get that extension from them.
Still waiting for it to be finalized. Some of us will have our day if it is completed. I can wait until then.
Sherman reported that deal. Said prospects on both sides are not elite, so it looks like Flores stays put. Provided that’s the deal.
Flores = non elite.
Guys like Profar, Myers, Bundy are elite.
Toronto prospect= Sierra?
Still nothing? I will have a good laugh if in the end this deal falls apart.
Even if they hashed out who the players are there is still that little issue of extending Dickey…
And if he is talking to Toronto and they are giving up everything these folks think they are then Dickey has all the leverage he needs to ask for full Cy Young Market value…
And why shouldn’t he?
Dickie is restrained from asking for Cy $$$$’s because IF deal fell through, he’s a 38-yr old hurler (knuckleballer or not) playing a season ‘on the fly’ and going into ’14 / ’15 as a 39 / 40 yr old.
If Dickey had another solid year in 2013 and becomes a free agent he’ll have no problem getting a 2-3 year deal for $15 mil a year.
That becomes more of a risk at his age. Maybe not arm woes, but leg / hamstring / back issues. i bet he’d prefer to be locked in for a couple more years NOW..
Even a 20 Mil per deal on a two year! Especially if he gets close to winning 20 games again.
Really what is restraining him?
Do you lose the ability to say 20 Million after age 38?
What age does your speech get affected actually?
If he plays this season for 5 Mil and gets even close to 20 Wins no one will care about his age or that knuckleball…
In fact the Knuckleball will help because most knuckleballer pitch well into thier 40′s!
i agree that RA probably has more good years left in that arm and he’s a gritty guy and i’d luv to keep him. But, being he’s a smart guy, i would think he’ll be willing to discuss an extension with Toronto and reasonable in negotiating the terms BECAUSE he wants to be guaranteed $$$$$’s for the next 3 years–not be left ‘at risk’ in 2013 IF God-forbid, he went down for any reason for any length of time.
i fully expect RA to be a great addition for the Jays for the next 3 years. He’s become a skilled SP and has always had that competitive fire i wish we could bottle for the rest of the team but we can’t.
Which is why i’m bummed it’s rumored we’re not getting Gose included in this deal.IF we trade RA, i want to ‘fix’ our up-the-mddle weakness. Without Gose, that won’t be the case.
I would include Flores if it meant getting back Gose
From a defensive perspective, the mets have 3 out of 4 positions to really fix
C
CF
2B
To me if u get a SS with MORE range than Tejada, you can move Tejada over to 2B and upgrade 2 positions at the cost of 1
You then need to get a C ( Travis )..then a defensive upgrade in CF ( gose )
you could also sign a speedy no-bat all glove type CF as a holdover til you develop your own ( endy chavez comes to mind )
Dont the Mets already have Den Dekker as your speedy no bat all glove CF? It is said that, at the moment, his glove alone will be enough to play CF.
Den Dekker is probably 1 year away. He struggles 1st year in at a higher level, then adjusts. I bet he does great in AAA this year after struggling last year.
His glove isnt. His bat is 1 year away.
Agree, but think of the pressure on a rookie CF in NYC batting .197 for the year…
Syndergaard and d’Arnaud? Don’t the Blue Jays have any good prospects named Smith?
If this deal for d’Arnaud and Syndergaard goes through, I have to say it’s a great job by Alderson. I was adverse to trading Dickey from the beginning, but getting back those two is worth it.
As I said in another thread, it’s a shame that a big market club found itself in the position where trading a player like Dickey was the best way to improve the club. But I don’t fault Alderson for that. That’s mostly on the Wilpons and on Omar for the way he left the farm system and for his bad contracts that bled the team.
Rumours now that Reyes wants in on the deal, and wants to get back to NY !!!!! I’m not kidding. This is getting freakier by the hour……
Where? You pulling our legs? I’d love to have Reyes back. But I can’t see the Jays wanting to give him up. They are in win-NOW mode. And Reyes is critical to their current plans.
I’m not kidding (I wouldn’t do that). Several people are reporting on Jays blogs that they heard from TSN (similar to ESPN, but in Canada) that Reyes wants in on the deal because he isn;t happy about playing in Toronto. I won’t vouch for this development, I’m merely passing it along. I didn’t hear it personally on TSN, but it does seem as though it was reported there.
now, will it actually happen ?? I couldn’t tell you. They’re saying Tejada would supposedly go to T.O. since the Jays would then be completely devoid of a SS. thats all I know. But I’m definitely not bullshitting you.
Interesting….and it will never happen.
Anyone signing with Miami should have realized their ‘no trade clause’ mindset set them up for winding up somewhere they might not want to be going. Reportedly, Pujols said no thanks to Miami’s deal for that very reason.
You all know how I feel about the Wilpons but Loria is the worst owner in MLB, hands down.
Reyes may indeed be unhappy about playing in Canada, but I don’t think there is anything to this rumor. It doesn’t make sense from the perspective of Alderson and what he is trying to do. It’s just one of those internet rumors where someone takes an idea or speculation and passes it off as real.
That cannot be true. It blows away the ad hoc Mets budget. Dickey, Thole, Murphy, Tejada, Kirk, Mejia for Reyes, d’Anaud, Syndergaard, Gose, Buck? Won’t happen.
well, if you’re simply in disbelief about the scope of such #’s involved, remember that AA loves this shit !!!! For him, the more the merrier. He just loves mixing things up and making things bigger in trades. Why do you think the Marlins trade was so big ?? because he kept pushing the envelope to include as many people as possible……
Thats because we are including David Wright in the deal !!!
Rumor has it that David Wright wants in on the deal too !!!
Now, that’s funny!
Yup, we get Reyes back, Murphy goes to 3B, we have open tryouts at 2B, Reese Havens and Wilmer Flores duke it out with Brad Eamus winning the 2013 Opening Day bid
Have you played this shtick on Saturday Night Live? Because it’s very funny!
Davidoff was right! Reyes was the guy who hated Dickey. That’s why he left and now he wants back.
Where did you get that from?
It was a joke.
Duh.
Why is it that so many are concerned about Dickey’s age despite him being a knuckle ball pitcher while nobody is concerned about d’anard’s health as a backstop? Damn it, he’s a catcher already having injured his knee and dealing with back problems. If one wants to argue about the value of the trade, leave the age problem out of it. Damn it, R.A. is a knuckle ball pitcher who just won the Cy Young Award.
Because everyone who says that about Dickey is under 30!
And they still think that the Young can never fail but as soon as you get past 34 your useless and a burden to society!
D’Arnaud does have a history of injuries which is something to be concerned about. However, this is the reason why he is available. If he was the AAA MVP last season, the Mets wouldnt be getting him.
As for Dickey, all the questions are legitimate. He didnt pick up the pitch until 1995, being a conventional pitcher before that. Will he pitch past 40 and will he be effective? Questionable. Joe Niekro and Wakefield werent very good after 40. Phil Niekro was (of course he is in the HOF).
Trades like this are always a risk.
Hi Task,
Nobody could have fairly described the health risks on both ends as better than you just did. That’s what I meant about others speaking in terms of absolutes and ignoring the serious issues that both have.
For myself – beyond the fact that I feel R.A. should be a Met forever – if one wants to look a health issues, the more concern has to be with d’arnaud simply because if a catcher has already dealt with knee injuries and back problems at such a young age, we don’t know how much that will catch up with his durability down the road.
Just something those wanting the trade have to consider and not just gloss over.
The point you bring up is valid and certainly there is no slam dunk. The truth is what the Mets are receiving back, injury aside, is still a toss up. Prospects do not have a proven track record…cant miss or not. We saw plenty of cant miss people do just that. That is why there is risk assessment in all of this. The Mets medical staff looked at the injuries and cleared him (that might not comfort anyone based upon their track record) so they obviously feel it is a chance worth taking. At this point, based upon where the organization is, I agree. D’Arnaud has a high upside as does the A ball pitcher. But there is a long way from Vegas and ABall to NYC. This could be a homerun for the Mets or it could be a trade of Dickey and Thole for Buck.
Because people who monitor prospects for a living say D’Arnaud is in no more trouble with injuries than the average player.
and dickey is not a typical KBer. He throws harder than the others.
Also, while most KBers do pitch past 40, they aren’t as effective as many want to believe.