5
2012
Rubin: Teams Asking For Zack Wheeler In Trade Discussions
An article by 
According to Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork.com, teams have been asking for Zack Wheeler virtually every time the Mets try to engage in any trade discussions. Rubin says that even when the Mets are discussing platoon or back up catchers, Wheeler’s name has come up.
Are you Kidding me?
These teams can’t be serious.
If general managers are being that delusional, it’s no wonder why the Mets have been unable to make a trade so far at the Winter Meetings.
If teams are asking for Wheeler in a deal for back up catchers, then what are they looking to give up for R.A. Dickey? Cracker Jacks?
If this is true, I can’t fault Alderson for not pulling the trigger on a deal.
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a staff writer for Mets Merized Online. I am a Mets team analyst with a focus on the minor league system, as well as the major league club. I am a lifelong New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. You can follow me on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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|---|---|---|---|---|
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| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Outstanding photo.
so we can ask for Wil Myers, but us asking for zach wheeler is absolutely nuts…
lmao only met fans
It’s got to be put into context. i doubt we’re asking for Myers and offering Baxter.
Nickeas for Myers.
There I said it.
There’s a slight difference when the return for Myers would be a $5 million Cy Young winner and the return for Wheeler is a backup catcher or platoon outfielder.
LMAO only Met fans with agendas.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!
“There’s a slight difference when the return for Myers would be a $5 million Cy Young winner and the return for Wheeler is a backup catcher or platoon outfielder.
LMAO only Met fans with agendas.”
**************************************************************************************************************
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell isnt that EXACTLY what Sandy Alderson attempted do??? when teams were asking him for his PLATOON OUTFIELDER!!!!! >>>>>SCOTT HAIRSTON!!!!!
He asked for there top Prospects
https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/230333036275826688
I guess those GM’s whom asked for Wheeler were giving him a taste of his own medicine…LOL!
That’s not even remotely what Alderson was doing. Alderson said Hairston wasn’t traded because no one offered even a top-30 prospect within their own organization. But you can believe a CBS writer if you want to.
By the way, MLB Prospect watch has this to say about the Tigers #2 prospect: “He has the stuff to be a starter, but if it doesn’t come together, he could be an effective lefty reliever.”
#3 prospect: “What he hasn’t been able to do is throw strikes consistently. If he can learn to repeat his delivery better, he has the chance to pitch in the back end of a big league bullpen…”
Nothing wrong with those skill sets but it shows what kind of agenda you have when you compare those players with Wheeler.
Are you kidding me???
That CBS reporter wasnt the only person to report that I just gave you 1 example…And FYI I’ll believe that reporter over YOU! anyday buddy….
Not to mention youre telling me about there prospects NOW!!!
Do you realize this was reported BEFORE the Anibal Sanchez, Omar Infante Trade with the Marlins??? When Jacob Turner was still a tiger.
And Turner was ranked as high as #15 by your Jonathon Mayo from MLB Prospect Watch…
Not to mention Rob Brantly was also a Tiger and he is currently in the majors with the Marlins and looking very good in his 1st cup of tea in the majors.
FYI The Tigers werent the only team with sources that came out stating the Mets wanted way too much for Hairston.
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/229613326169174016
Do yourself a favor and quit with the Area 51 “Conspiracy theory/Everyone has an agenda bit”
You made a statement about a report from a source and i provided a source stating our team did the same thing…..So now who sounds like they have an agenda
FACTS ARE FACTS!!!!
You can twist it all you want, but if you notice I included the #2 and #3 prospects because obviously Turner was a factor at the time and was their number one. And a ton of people reported what Alderson said, straight from his mouth. Did the Tigers ever come out and say what they offered? So all you have is secondhand information at best. It’s clear and obvious what Alderson was doing and what he said. If he was lying about the offers and some team had a better than #30 offer on the table, how come there’s been not one report on it? But many reports on the top-30 part?
Also, your Rosenthal link says nothing. It says that Mets MAY place greater value on him than……what? Than a team’s #30 prospect? Than their #1 prospect? Than what? Where are the facts, huh? If a team’s #3 prospect could maybe become a reliever if he reaches all his potential, what does that say about the depth of their system? What kind of player do you think their #30 prospect might become? A bat off the bench? Maybe? If he even makes it at all? Then why trade Hairston for that?
Stop with your agenda-filled twists.
You’re seriously delusional if you think NO TEAM would or did offer Alderson a prospect ranked at least 30th in their system for Hairston. There are numerous reports quoting Alderson when he stated he wanted a prospect that could help the team now as in major league ready.
-ALL prospects that are Major league READY are in there teams top 30!!! So that kills that nonsense excuse.
___________________________________________________________________________
“If a team’s #3 prospect could maybe become a reliever if he reaches all his potential, what does that say about the depth of their system?”
Oh I dunno havent those same reports been saying the exact same thing about Familia and Mejia as relievers??? and they were ranked our #2 and #3 at one point
____________________________________________________________________________
Alderson said from his mouth that he offered Reyes a deal then later on stated i didnt offer a deal i gave parimeters of what we were willing to go to….
***And whats worst is youre accusing me of doing something YOU ALSO DID!!!! Which is comment on a sourced report!!!
***Did a GM come out and say they asked for Wheeler in a deal for a backup catcher or platoon outfielder???????? NO!
SMH…youre making a fool of yourself just stop now bro—youre a writer on this blog/fan site if you go any further you might further embarrass yourself….And expose your agenda….My only agenda here was calling BS…..And i succeeded
FYI For your benefit I wont click the box below that says, “Notify me of followup comments via e-mail”…lol…so i dont have to see your reply and give you the last word since thats what youre aiming for…
GOOD LUCK!
You can bury your head in the sand, but you’re clearly caught here on so every point.
“There are numerous reports quoting Alderson when he stated he wanted a prospect that could help the team now as in major league ready.
-ALL prospects that are Major league READY are in there teams top 30!!! So that kills that nonsense excuse.”
Right. Plenty of reports saying Alderson wanted a ready prospect Plenty of reports saing no one offered Alderson one. It doesn’t kill the excuse, it proves it. Who said they offered Alderson a ready prospect? Where’s that link? Doesn’t exist. It doesn’t kill the “excuse” that Alderson wanted a ready player and wasn’t offerend one. Actually, not one report at all exists that disparages Alderson’s claim. Nice job there, Ace.
____________________________________________________________________________
“Oh I dunno havent those same reports been saying the exact same thing about Familia and Mejia as relievers??? and they were ranked our #2 and #3 at one point”
And the Mets system is consistenly ranked near the bottom. So…
____________________________________________________________________________
“”***And whats worst is youre accusing me of doing something YOU ALSO DID!!!! Which is comment on a sourced report!!! ”
Hilarious. Your use of asteriks and caps and excalaimation points can’t hide the fact that you commented on a sourced report, I commented on an Alderson quote. Very different. Very, very different. I appreciate the last word, it allowed me to further expose your agenda.
Matt Cerrone himself said Sandy stated he would only trade Scott Hairston for a team’s 3rd best prospect and nothing lower…
any thoughts?
Yeah here’s my thoughts…
Lemme get this straight. You people are on here day after day whining and clamoring about add now add now add now spend spend spend to make the team better NOW. But you are now giving Alderson sh*t for not trading Scott Hairston, which would have instantly made the team worse, and probably would have only gotten a player for him that may or may not even make the major leagues, and if he did it wouldn’t be till like 2015?
did I get that right??
THIS is to CB JDD not you….
“But you are now giving Alderson sh*t for not trading Scott Hairston”
Not surprisingly but you missed the point of the hairston bitching….
First off Sandy already had punted on the season by then and Hairston was FA at the end of the year and gone.
Second the reason most bitch at Sandy is because he steadfastly refused to package any kids with Hairston that might have gotten a top prospect from someone.
Hairston himself was NEVER going to get top 30 prospect on his own. But Hairston and a Familia or Mejia added to the package might have gotten as high as a Top 20 Pick.
Could have even added Baxter sans kids which would have been like trading an entire platoon for a promising kid.
To think that we held onto Hairston due to some pipe dream of staying competitive was typical Sandy bull!
He could have sweetened the pot on Hairston and gotten more but he has this problem in his philosophy that he will never export kids and only export stars to get more.
And thats why we knock Sandy on the Hairston deal…
Not because he didn’t make a deal or even that he wanted to get a top 30 Prospect….
It was that he didn’t try hard enough to MAKE a deal all he tried was to RAPE someone and when they refused he got stuck with him.
When he should have added some of those kids you Sand people all claim can’t be traded because they are worthless.
Yet become added value to a trade of a guy who isn’t worth a prospect all on his own.
oooooh Metsie, I forgot you were on the line for every conversation and know exactly what was discussed. Three-way calling is a great thing.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Were you on the line or have any proof what I said was NOT true?
No you don’t do you?
Your just flapping your lips and nothing is being produced but crap!
Why in the blue hell would the Mets trade Hairston AND Mejia for someone’s top 20 prospect when Mejia himself is in the the Mets top 10? Why would you even want that?
Why? Because the Mets don’t need Mejia with Dickey, Niese, Harvey, Wheeler and Gee but could use a good RHH OF prospect!
Why do you think that its always bad to give away ANY kid especially one who you don’t think by himself gets you anything you need?
Why all this talk of HAVING to trade Niese and Dickey who are proven winners for a guy who they can’t even decide is a starter or reliever?
Guys who have no real role on your roster should be traded for someone who DOES!
Isn’t that how the Philies and Braves you guys love so much did it?
There are kids in lots of team’s top TEN who project to maybe filling out a bullpen or maybe being a 4th outfielder and you’re suggesting trading Hairston AND Mejia for someone’s top 20? There’s no way to defend that.
No what can’t be defended is your position that no kid we have can be traded for anything….
What might be a 4th Outfielder to another team could be a 2nd or 3rd especially on a team like ours!
You think Mejia is going to make us a playoff contender?
If so then don’t give them Hairston and just trade Mejia if he is that good.
He will not be in our Rotation save a trade of Dickey or Niese and will most likely be in the Bullpen which we have already seen on the 4 times they have tried he is not any good for!
“No what can’t be defended is your position that no kid we have can be traded for anything….”
Sorry, which one of us wants to dump Mejia AND Hairston for someone who will most likely bag groceries in a couple of years? Unless he gets real lucky, recognizes ALL his potential and maybe cracks a team’s roster as the 25th man for a cup of coffee?
WHo did I say that fits that description?
You and Sandy would make a deal like that like the deal for Pagan that you supported when it happened…
Not me!
I said TOP PROSPECT!
You said an organization’s top-20 prospect. Or did someone else say, “Hairston himself was NEVER going to get top 30 prospect on his own. But Hairston and a Familia or Mejia added to the package might have gotten as high as a Top 20 Pick.”
Yes as in top 20 Overall!
Guess you are so quick to think your making people look foolish that you really just read things as the idiot you are and then call everyone else crazy for your own personal reading issues!
No one EVER suggested Sandy asked for an ORGANIZATIONAL top 30 but you!
All that was said was he wanted a top 30 Prospect which each team in the league should have at least one unless they are dumb and use sabers instead of scouting to make thier draft picks!
How was that reported before the Sanchez and Infante trade when that trade happened more than a week before the deadline.
Hi Xtreem,
Regarding Tiger prospect number three, don’t forget the same is still being said about our number one – problems with the strike zone as well.
Not true, Joey. Not true at all. With the Mets, Wheeler’s BB/9 is 3.27. That’s maybe not elite, but it’s very good. That stigma was with him as a Giant when his BB/9 was 5.8. Maybe it was his maturity or maybe it was the coaching, but he has no wildness issues and hasn’t had any as a Met in general.
Also, Wheeler’s ceiling is a front line ace. That Tigers prospect’s ceiling is a late-inning reliever. Very different situations.
Eh, on further thought, 3.27 is not VERY good, but it’s not problematic. I should have said that. Not elite, but not problematic.
Hi Xtreem,
Many who observe Zack note he gets away with pitches off the plate that fool minor league hitters into swinging at but that established and experienced major league hitters would lay off of instead. That is something that gets lost in stats and can only be recognized seeing him pitch on a regular basis.
Many such as who? That was his knock when he was a Giant, but who says that now? Not this 2012 report: http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2512
Or this one: http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/01/04/scouting-report-zack-wheeler-rhp/ which specifically says “Threw more strikes in 2011 and even more late in the year as he became more comfortable with his mechanics. Athleticism allows him to repeat his delivery well. Has potential to fill the zone with strikes from FB and CB down the line.”
Or Sickels http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/5/24/3039989/prospect-of-the-day-zack-wheeler-rhp-new-york-mets-scouting-report who reiterates that his command issues were with the Giants.
And those were just three of the first four hits on Google when I searched “Zack Wheeler scouting report 2012″ I’m sure most of the current ones reflect the same. I skipped over the bleacherreport one because anyone can write there.
Hi Extreme,
Two of those three articles you posted were from last year and thus are not updated to include his progression in 2012. The 2012 one from scouting book.com does not touch on anything specific, although the stats listed do bring out the alarming figure of 16 walks in 33 innings plus one hit batter while in Triple-A.
However, I did come across a recent article from Adam Rubin in which he points out: “Wheeler made six late-season starts with Buffalo. The jump from Double-A to Triple-A did open his eyes to areas that require attention.”
What was one of those areas? Having to get more off-speed pitches over for strikes when facing higher level hitting for the more experienced ones know how to lay off those off the plate. You might be surprised as to the one who is acknowleding this is indeed a problem for him.
“They don’t swing at side-to-side pitches. They’ll swing more at up-to-down,” Wheeler said about the higher level. “The strike zone is a little tighter. Guys wait on their pitch more. If you can’t get over your offspeed pitches for strikes, they’re just going to sit on your fastball, and they can hit that. You’ve got to be able to get your offspeed over for strikes and I think you’ll be successful.”
So, when you ask “Many such as who? That was his knock when he was a Giant, but who says that now?” the answer is none other than Zack Wheeler himself.
Complete article is attached.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/56041/wheeler-closes-book-on-solid-2012-season
Hi again, Xtreem,
Should have added that if Wheeler is able to get more control, with the stuff he is reported to have, the deception could become deadly to hitters.
However, we still have to see how that pans out. Major leaguers can tell the difference between wildness and deception so Zack will still have to learn to better throw the ball where he wants to for if he cannot, the result will probably be more walks, less strikeouts and more hits with Zack being forced to come in over the plate more. Only time will tell.
Holy sheet – why are you LYING???
Wheeler’s BB/9 rates have been as follows
2010 – 5.8
2011 – 4.1
2012 – 3.6
his BB/9 rate is 4.2… where do u get 3.26 from?
I am guessing he just typed ERA instead of BB/9. Settle down.
No, he mentioned BB/9 twice, he was NOT talking about ERA
That’s right. I was talking about BB/9. And I was right and made you look foolish. Simple as that.
What a liar you are. I can’t even dignify that with a response.
JDD is correct. Now JDD Wheeler also as a Met over 176.0/IP has allowed 64/BB. Now you can do the math to see what that comes out to but I believe it comes out to 3.27 BB/9.
In AA Wheeler over 116.0/IP allowed 44/BB that came out to a 3.3 BB/9.
In AAA Wheeler over 33.0/IP allowed 16/BB that came out to a 4.4 BB/9.
In 2012 overall Wheeler over 149.0/IP allowed 59/BB that came out to a 3.6 BB/9.
That should read In AA Wheeler over 116.0/IP allowed 43/BB.
Sandy Alderson has absolutely no credibility issues.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120721&content_id=35303188¬ebook_id=35304380&vkey=notebook_nym&c_id=nym
Hi JDD,
You are actually right that Sandy really does not have any credibility issues.
So last season when he was deciding whether or not the Mets were contenders Sandy said” Realistically, the next seven, eight, 10 games become important for us.”
- That’s also what he said the same time the year before that so he has been consistent.
Sandy’s plan was to sell his good players around the trade deadline by creating a losing team. Unfortunately, the team played so well his plans each of the two prior winters backfired as bad as “Springtime For Hitler” did for Max Bialystock and Leo Bloom and he was thus put in a very awkward position. We can see he is already taking measures this time around to assure that won’t be the case next year.
“Sandy’s plan was to sell his good players around the trade deadline by creating a losing team”
Yup, no credibility issues whatsover.
He was honest in the 3rd week of July..which totally makes up for the BS he fed us from October to June…
How many games has our bullpen blown between April and July in both 2011 + 2012…?
How much bullpen help did we get ?
What Sandy DID say:
THIS WAS FROM MATT CERRONE:
Regarding not trading Scott Hairston, Alderson said he didn’t believe it was worth moving him unless he got a team’s top three prospect (Wheeler, Flores or Harvey). Wow,
Honestly, remember when Alderson said the available players were “too pricey” on July 25th, if he was expecting a top three prospect for Hairston, he’s right, that’s as pricey as things can get. So Hairston is here to stay and I’m glad.
“Right now he’s a very important part of our team. We feel it’s important to keep 2012 as competitive as possible.”
Competitive or in other words what you’ve seen in the last 19 days. It may help sell a few more tickets to be competitive. Competitive is a very popular word these days, bit means different things to different teams.
Things got hot when Adam Rubin asked Alderson about if not buying why not sell? Or if he was opposed to detracting from the win total of a non-playoff team. (There were three teams who wanted Hairston, Alderson confirmed before this question). Alderson replied:
“Well, maybe you’re not a Mets fan, Adam. Or you’re not a Mets employee. Or you’re not a Mets observer. You’re certainly a Mets reporter. It’s not clear to me you have the same mindset as all the other constituencies that relate to the Mets. It’s a good question, but if we’re just going to get marginal talent, and I’m talking about let’s say maybe not even top-30 prospect status in an organization, then we have a choice to make.”
“I thought we would talk on this call about the fact that we didn’t add anything. And now we’re talking about why we didn’t subtract, which is interesting to me. As I said, we’re about changing impressions, changing perceptions.”
Sandy himself said he was NOT trading Hairston for anything less than a teams top 3 talent…and all he was getting offered was their top-30 talent.
That STILL does not change the fact that he held onto Hairston expecting to get another team’s version of zach wheeler
as a matter of fact…there is no mention of whether salary played a part either…
offer to pay Hairston’s 2012 salary and maybe u get more than Cris Carter type returns
but either way…Sandy DID say he was only going to trade Hairston for a teams TOP prospect ..and holding onto him was about selling seats in 2012…
so you can kindly GTFOH with your insistant defense on someone who will lie out their behind to sell you wolf tickets
LOL!!! I remember that…..Sandy was about to go Tony Bernazard on Rubin
XtreemIcon is an Alderson apologist….he’s going to say that wasnt Sandy it was a voice impersonator.
LMAO!!! THIS^^^^ HE went crazy, then of course, the apologists came in here mad at rubin for blasting and putting their lord on the spot to where he almost lost it…
“Or you’re not a Mets observer”
what the fork is a mets observer!?!?
so adam rubin watches met games, interviews met players…but doesnt observe the mets?
or maybe he meant observe in a religious way?
Hi Just,
QUESTION: “what the fork is a mets observer!?!?”
ANSWER: Sandy Alderson. He admitted being only an observer in the SNY booth last June.
…But he speaks english so well
Quoting Cerrone is not something to be done without some caution. Do yourself a favor and look into that top 3 prospect line for Hairston back at the trade deadline and see if you can find a media source that says he said this other than in a tweet by Mike Kerwick which is the only place I have ever seen it. I am more of the opinion that Mike had a typo and meant to say 30 because all the other outlets that day never mentioned a top 3 but that no club was willing to give up even a top-30 organizational prospect for Hairston.
but “rather” that no…
You are a MORON
“Honestly, remember when Alderson said the available players were “too pricey” on July 25th, if he was expecting a top three prospect for Hairston, he’s right, that’s as pricey as things can get. So Hairston is here to stay and I’m glad.”
TOP THREE PROSPECT
are you still going to insist that it was a TYPO?!?
He is QUOTING SANDY as saying this came out of HIS MOUTH
Must I further embarass you?
The SaberMetric WIzard is nothing but a good lawyer who has convinced you that what he did 20 years ago is relevant now
Sweet Jesus, Whats next ?!!? Matt Cerrone’s laptop was kidnapped by terrorists in an attempt to devalue the Mets and Sandy Alderson’s absolute BULLETPROOF reputation???
He may have said it all I am saying is the only media source I ever saw mention that was 1 tweet by Kerwick that day. It is possible that Cerrone read that tweet and mentioned it. I don’t recall seeing any media outlet write that as something Alderson said. If you know of one for me to read I am open to changing my view on this topic. If you rather believe Cerrone simply at his word you can do that as well. I am just saying that unless he was alone in a room with Alderson I have yet to read anything to substantiate that the Mets GM did say that other than a tweet by Kerwick.
You better watch your step if you want to continue commenting here. Nobody called you names and there’s no need to stoop that low. Lets not pretend that Matt Cerrone isn’t prone to typos and the occasional misinformation.
A typo between Three and Thirty ???
really???
and i’ve been called names here for pointing out all sorts of weird double-standards.
I call dude a moron and the Sandy police got their nightsticks out…
ok…
I back up ALL my statements with facts, links, quotes, sources.
please try me
I will have you questioning yourself by the time im done
Please feel free to contact me if anyone ever personalty insults you. I dont catch every comment, but I did catch yours. I just want to keep the dialog here from becoming counterproductive. Thank you for understanding.
JDD, forget I ever said anything. If simply saying that I don’t recall any media outlet reporting a statement other than 1 tweet somewhere and the idea that Cerrone by himself saying something is beyond reproach sets you off then I should know better. My bad I should of known better.
Mr North Jersey – u also said there was a typo involved…despite the fact that he spelled out the number three
Matt did not say he heard a rumor about Sandy saying this, he was listening to Sandy speak and was relaying it.
Why is it so hard to just say Sandy did not want to trade Scott H because the prospect of winning 81 games trumped acquiring a prospect
I said Mike Kerwick not Cerrone might have committed a typo in his tweet for example Top-3 rather than Top-30 cause I never saw any media outlet ever report the GM to say top 3 but rather top 30. I then said that Cerrone may have made his comment based on him seeing that tweet. But like I said forget I said anything. You have your opinion on the matter and I made a mistake trying to approach you with mine.
Guys,
It actually wasn’t a typo with Cerone accidentally leaving off the second digit “0″ causing the number to appear as three instead. Matt actually reported the Mets were asking for a “top five” prospect and he had spelled out the number in his mets blog article.
http://metsblog.com/metsblog/the-latest-on-scott-hairston/
Joe, wasn’t one of the rules we learned in creative writing class was for the numbers 1 through 10 to appear in their numeric form with those from eleven on to be spelled out instead? Ah, had Matt only remembered his grammar school teacher……
That’s funny. Last week I had to remind one of our writers about that rule.
*facepalm*
“It’s a good question, but if we’re just going to get marginal talent, and I’m talking about let’s say maybe not even top-30 prospect status in an organization, then we have a choice to make.” – Sandy Alderson
It took literally 1 minute to find that on google.
Another little-known rule is that if there are multiple numbers in your sentence, use the same form for all numbers as you did for the largest.
“34 home runs, 45 doubles, 6 triples.” Not “six.”
Or, “he hit 34 home runs and 45 doubles. He also contributed six triples.” Different sentence.
There should be another rule for posters….
Just because you didn’t see a source you like regarding a report does not mean you have the right to question the guy who HAS a source and can call him full of it which happens quite a lot lately around here whenever somethign is said, No linkage to prove otherwise exists and the response is HOW DO YOU KNOW?
Well if you don’t know what was said is NOT true then you shouldn’t be questioning the one who said it was cause….
HOW DO YOU KNOW?
Sandy said 2 things:
1 – he wanted another teams TOP 3 prospect
2 – he had only been offered marginal prospects ( maybe a top 30 )
One does not negate the other
Offering an elite starter for a top prospect isn’t nuts. Asking for a top prospect for a backup/platoon catcher is.
So you’re saying Alderson is NUTZ!!!!
https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/230333036275826688
Hairston for detroits top prospect?Remember that o_O
Yes, we can ask for Myers for the reigning Cy Young award winner…..
No they can not ask for Wheeler if we are asking about their back up catchers
technically, Travis D’anard is Toronto’s backup catcher
Oh ok then your post is totally on point then.
D’Arnaud is not the backup until he gets called up…Buck and Arencibia are the backstop combo for right now…..if one of the gets dealt which has been the rumor so far this offseason then D’Arnaud will get the call…..
If John Buck were to get injured, Travis is coming up for him…
If JP were to get injured, Buck is the starter…and Travis is coming up for him…
on a 40 man depth chart…Travis is 3rd when it comes to catcher
Actually depending on what happens, Eli Whiteside is #3 on the depth. They are only calling Travis D up if he’s ready to start…. they aren’t going to call up their future starter to be a backup. That is why they grabbed Whiteside to give them options behind the dish should they choose to trade JP or in case of injury so they do not force Travis D up
it happens all the time…buster posey was mentored under Benjie Molina his first year…same with Joe Mauer…same with Matt Weiters…same with Yadi Molina…
not everyone is going to be Rookie of the Year and play Catcher….often the first year is spent learning how to handle a staff, and adapt to the umpires and 100 other nuances that never appear in a stat sheet
What about what Alderson wanted for Hairston or Isringhausen? It goes both ways. Alderson wants the equivalent of two Wheelers for Dickey.
Dickey has won the Cy Young…? He may be 38, but he is an Ace at thiss point.
If he’s an ace, why are we dealing him? If he’s an ace why are we not re-signing him to a 3 year deal?
Alderson thinks he’s a risk and so do other teams.
This thinking that Alderson is smarter than the other 29 GM’s has reached a fever pitch.
I think it’s based on need more than risk.
If we had a legitimate OF, I think RA would have extended already.
What was that quote DePo had last week? Keep the pitchers, buy the bats.
Hi Maniac,
Why aren’t we signing him and thinking of dealing him if he’s our ace? Other than a reliever, has there ever been a Cy Young Award winner not considered a team’s ace? Or one that could be re-signed for a lot less money than other former winners?
And since it appears we are indeed strong in starting pitching, what would be wrong doing like the Giants did when they needed outfield help like we do now? They traded Wheeler for Beltran due to their surplus of great starting pitching. Not saying we should trade for a rental or veteran getting on in years, of course, but would it be wrong trading Wheeler for a highly regarded young talent to help resolve the outfield problem? Until he proves himself, Wheeler too is still only a highly regarded prospect as well.
Alderson isn’t smarter than all other 29 GM’s….he’s just smarter than everyone here.
smarter at many things yes..
forming a mlb roster might not be one of them…
but if i need a lawyer to go over my contracts, I’d call Sandy before anyone on this blog
If we want to b*tch about the past 6 years or most of the past 20 yrs, okay. But i’d rather be talking about & analyzing how we can improve the club, all-the-while believing, you have to give, to get.
I am ok with Wheeler being the target of trade discussions. If Alderson was able to swing a deal for Myers using Wheeler I’d be fine with that. My understanding is that trade talks are kinda disjointed and top prospects are often asked about. No worries it’s cool to know that Wheeler is highly valued.
Find a way to get Myers without trading Wheeler. I think Dickey should be enough but the Royals don’t just want Dickey. Idk why we don’t include Niese in a deal…. The Mets aren’t shopping Niese. They should though.
Yeah, i’d give up Niese for Myers but maybe just maybe, it’d make more sense to give our best prospect(s) for theirs. So, Wheeler + Fullmer for Myers (Myers higher ranked, so we give a bit more).
i am sensing that Myers is available. KC wants to be relevant again for the 1st time in 20 years; hasn’t been this close since then, needs an Ace…if they don’t want RA, then offer Niese or Wheeler +, but not both to get Myers.
Royals have said they want an established starting pitcher. Wheeler is not that.
Neise/Flores could get the deal done,at this point,David’s 8 yr dear all but guarantees that Flores is expendable,as is Neise. Wheeler will be coming up,and can claim the rotation spot near June. Maybe even throw in Groski if you want Myers,but I’d also want a bullpen arm in addition to Myers.
Gee
Sorry – finger twitched and hit return.
Gee is also an established starting pitcher – throw in Meija and/or Flores and see if that gets it done. 2 SP’s and a power bat could interest them.
Niese a young LHP coming into his own under team control for 6 more years at reasonable money is worth more than Wil Myers. He could bring back Myers plus.
Niese is very valuable, even to a rebuilding team. He is locked into a team friendly deal and is a sturdy presence in the rotation. Almost any return we get back will not be equal to the productivity lost.
You make great points. So maybe it makes sense to offer Wheeler + for Myers…?
That is what I would do. There is always a chance that we would be losing something great in Wheeler but you take those chances. Niese is as close to guaranteed production as it gets. I personally wouldn’t even do Wheeler + if the deal was possible. I’d do straight up though. Pitchers and players are valued differently. A mediocre player is valued evenly with AAA players while Mediocre pitchers are considered valuable due to the innings they pitch.
KC wants an established front line starter Nathan. They’re not looking for a pitching prospect unless he’s packaged with a MLB starter. For some reason they think they’re ready to compete. Me personally, I don’t think they’re quite ready yet.
Sandy got Wheeler but he won’t be a Wheeler dealer.
I love that show!
I think we need Myers though. But I wanna keep Wheeler. Would Familia and/or Meija and a a few others do it? Also, why don’t we try to trade for Bubba Starling???
Going after Myers with Mejia and Familia would probably take more heat such as Gee but I doubt they would go for that. I’m guessing here but Dickey or Wheeler would have to be the basis of any trade with KC for Myers.
Yeah, i’ve thought of trying for Bubba Starling also. That’d cost less. Maybe Gee + Familia + Flores = Starling +?
Do you know how far Bubba is from the MLB?
Probably 2015, which is a long ways off. And Gee probably doesn’t do it for KC. So Starling not practical at this point. Got to talk the here & now.
Well the Mets are shooting for contention in 2014, so you’re right, Myers would be the better option as of now.
KC likes Starling even more than Myers. They’re not moving him for anybody.
i didn’t know that. Starling further away from the Show., but he was their 2011 1st Round, #5 over-all.
Very true. Fonzie makes a good point also, that KC has said they want a frontline SP. If that’s the case, would Wheeler be enough? Would we have oto offer Niese or would KC at day’s end take RA ++ for Myers +…? Maybe RA + Flores = Myers…?
I think KC would do Myers for Niese. I would want more back for Niese though.
Fonzie, Niese is a number 3 starter and the Royals want a top rotation starter. Even if they did consider Niese, it would be them that would want more. I say they get Shields when all of this is said and done.
You think a small market team would take Shields for 1 year over Niese who’s signed for 6 more years with options for reasonable money? Rosenthal said today that KC would take Niese for Myers but not Dickey. Niese has more value than you think.
Regardless of What Cerrone is shoveling the Royals are not a great match for the Mets in fact it’s a terrible match. They wont overpay for Dickey and Niese is not an ace. Their GM specifically said he wanted the top starter to put them over the top. That’s not Niese.
agree. I think Texas is probably a good match. They have a sick farm system with depth everywhere, they don’t have to worry losing a top prospect.
Is Shields a ‘top starter’? He’s a workhorse, 200+ IP past 6 years but he’s won 13 – 16 games / yr for a contending team. Niese won 13 last year for a 4th Place team. Niese is 26 yrs old & still peaking. Good n’ Plenty there…a Lefty…oozes potential.
And Shields’ arm is gonna fall off, next 2 years.
You’re knocking Shields for being the most durable pitcher in the American League? Come on, I wish we had five like him. Niese has been on the DL four times in three years and you’re using durability as your argument? Niese has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season and breaks down every August. Sorry I may have been born but I wasn’t born yesterday. Why do Met fans always make their players out to be Ruth, Mantle and Mathewson?
Absolutely, who the heck wouldn’t want a Shields or a Haren? Sure. What i’m saying is that at this point in his career, Shields carries more risk of breaking down than Niese does. Haren had a bump last year after 7 years of 200+ IPs. And Niese costs a lot less. TB wii allegedly add $$$$$’s to any trade of Shields–but this IS Tampa Bay we’re talking about.
And i’m a huge believer in you have to give to get, which is why i think Niese in a ‘package’ gets Myers + a prospect.
Remember when Pelfrey was the most durable pitcher around?
Not saying he’s of equal value – just saying… lesson learned
The Dodgers are offering Dee Gordon and Zach Lee for Dickey. The D-Backs want a ML shortstop in any package for Upton. Why not see if we can put together a 3 team trade with one or two of our prospects , Gordon, and Lee? Or even keep Lee ourselver??
Once the pitching market thins,teams get desperate.
Thats true Rich. Once Grienke signs with LA or Texas, teams that were in on Grienke will get deperate. That’s why I wouldn’t trade Dickey until Grienke signs. Unless somebody makes an offer Sandy can’t refuse.
It will thin, and nobody will get desperate. It’s December 5th, nor July 31st. Then again Alderson might get desperate. Let’s hope he doesn’t pull another Angel Pagan boner.
You’d be surprised how teams panic once pitchers start coming off the market. Especially for a Cy Young winner making only 5 million next year. Alderson doesn’t panic. he’s methodical almost to a fault. Now the Pagan trade was a boner since it didn’t work out but after that trade you said in the shoutbox how Alderson seems to get the better end of trades.
You ust have me mixed up with the other Met Maniac. Pitchers and catchers in two months. Lets see all this desperation that happens after Greinke signs. We’ll put this on hold for now.
Give up a young, solid to good hard throwing lefty for a kid that’s not yet proven at the major league level? Come one folks, whats the oldest axiom in baseball? Good pitching always beats good hitting…SMH
Hey, if you don’t ask you won’t get.
But let’s put to rest the idea that the Mets are somehow morons for asking about top prospects in exchange for Dickey.
To Dan Valis: That link to Rubin has nothing to do with Wheeler. Do you have the actual link you freaked out about? Maybe it was Kubel for Wheeler. I’d like to have some more context here.
Rubin did say this though,
Adam Rubin
Rival agent couldn’t believe Mets just can’t get Dickey done for 2 years, $26M or so on top of existing season and move to other things.
He also said Mejia will replace our ace R.A. Dickey if he’s traded. LOL
Wholesale changes alright!
Niese is a young lefty with some pop and a good arm health record. Forget Wheeler. Possible number ones go nowhere. Most teams do not even have one. A team that feels it is close should and willpay for Dickey, after Shields and Greinke are gone.
So, I had a streak of masochism today and turned of Francesa. He had Wright and Alderson on today. Alderson said Harvey, Wheeler and Davis were all off the table.
Interesting….
I’m ok if Gee is traded.
We are making a major trade(s) before year-end. It’s either RA or Niese that goes, likely with other pieces, for players / positions we need to bring up to MLB levels: OF / C. It will happen. Trades are risky. Hope the h*ll we do this right, but it’s gonna happen.
Well, in all fairness, Sandy is looking for Wil Myers in any deal with KC for Robert Allen, so I suppose it’s fair for other teams ASK for the moon (LOL). Sandy has a lot of Frank Cashen in him, so I doubt it’s even a consideration (I seem to recall a lot of stories of other GM’s asking for Gooden in 82 and 83 winter meetings!). What concerns me more is that Sandy (from the several interviews I watched today) is “shocked” about the escalating salaries for outfielders… this is his third time to the Rodeo (inter meetings) with us; not to count how many he attended with SD and OAK… surprising (and a little concerning) that he’s so surprised.
I was just reading a blog board where Royals fans were discussing that they’d rather have Neise for Myers then Dickey. That being said,I definitely believe that Neise and Flores will be shipped to the Royals for Wil Myers and a player to be named(Bullpen arm),and if no extension is reached,then you’ll see him traded to join Jose in Toronto. These are just my beliefs,but these moves will get the job done.
(referring to Dickey being traded to the Jays).
Richard, if that deal were on the table, I’d drive to KC personally and carry the luggage back to NY! I LOVE Neise’s curveball, but I’ve herad enough opinions from those close to the situation that he’ll never develop to better than a #3. That could be a deal on the level of Hearn for Cone.
It just doesn’t seem sensible for a team that now has to be re-building to create a possible hole by trading away even a number three starter for some unproven talent. Niese has established himself as a young and genuine major league pitcher. He is a proven commodity whereas the ones being talked about are high on potential but still unproven talent. Teams with an abundance of established players can trade younger players like Niese but with the holes the Mets have, they shouldn’t. A young rotation already consisting of Neise, Gee and for what he has shown us so far, Harvey led by the veteran R.A. is something the team could build around of instead.
That is, unless they plan to seriously enter the free agent market. Then, they could be more flexible with moving some players.
Not sure if anyone knows but that’s an actual picture of Dan
Really? lol
No, Mitch just thinks he’s funny lol
Lets go Knicks!
Bare with me here, so what i’ve seen is the same people who accused other GM’s to be insane for trying to acquire a top prospect for crap are the same ones defending the almighty alderson when we say he did the same thing? Is that what i’m coming up with? It’s ok for alderson to ask for the moon because he’s a genius, but when other GM’s do then they’re idiots?? Now, my question is, why is wheeler being ask for in trades only involving back up catchers and crap? I mean, maybe people around baseball see something we mets fans (Who overhype prospects) don’t see or don’t wanna see in him? I could be wrong, but when a #1 prospect is been ask in trades, for a backup catcher gives a red flag to people imo..
I think what you’re missing the point
They aren’t asking for Wheeler in just trades for platoon or backup caliber players – they are asking for him in every deal. Meaning the trade market right now is borderline delusional in favor of the sellers.
Here is what Rubin actually said “The Mets may still swing a trade for a catcher, but there was nothing concrete developing on that front. Opposing teams were making ludicrous demands in exchange for a catcher — such as top prospect Zack Wheeler — according to an organization source. ”
Then he tweeted “One Mets official said everyone is asking for Zack Wheeler in trades with #Mets — even for platoon-type catchers. That ain’t happening.”
Teams are aiming high… they aren’t saying we’ll trade our junk for your junk. Teams think Wheeler is gonna be good. Not saying they think he’ll be a star, but I think most GM’s out there have him pegged as being AT LEAST as good as Jon Niese.
When it comes to Wheeler it is ALL about control. Control is going to dictate whether he becomes a good starting pitcher or a good relief pitcher.
But I wouldn’t assume because teams are asking for him in every deal it means they think he’s bad
#1 Rubin said even if they ask for a backup C or platoon. Meaning the trade market is very much in the seller’s favor. That doesn’t mean they see Wheeler as crap, it means they see teams are in desperate need of “now” talent so teams are aiming high.
Got you… While i get that, you got to put everything in persepective, while we may think he’s the next best thing, other teams don’t view him as valuable is what i’m sort of getting at and that’s why they ask for him. As mets fans we do tend to overhype and over value a prospect…
No I think what you’re missing is they view a market where what THEY have to offer IS valuable. Teams know that Catchers for example are in very high demand. Therefore if you want our Catcher, you gotta pay a higher price than maybe you would have 2 years ago.
Which is why I say stay the hell away from the catcher trade market.
Oh noooo not again!
All this harping on a Catcher….What Gives?
I look at all the names that have been mentioned as possible trade targets at catcher and I tell you I wouldn’t trade anyone save some guy who just signed with Seattle for any of them!
There isn’t even a LoDuca out there to be had and if thats what your trading for, you might as well just rush Plawlecki up and start him because he has as much chance of being “NOT THOLE” as any of the names I hear mentioned.
We are wasting our time thinking any catcher we could get via trade is actually going to solve the problem.
Focus on what CAN be filled and improved in a much more effective way and that means look at the OFs out there and leave the Catcher for later.
“Focus on what CAN be filled and improved in a much more effective way and that means look at the OFs out there and leave the Catcher for later.”
And who says we don’t agree on much?
Man have I been saying this everywhere and twice on Sundays. The catching market is crazy. To think that some would want to give up Niese for JP A’s .232 .278 line in the AL is absolutely nuts. I wouldn’t trade anything of value for that.
What bothers me most here is they HAVE options to fix the OF they won’t look at and in both cases (OF and C) they prefer to take flyers on crap hoping to hit the lottery.
Just get a good OFer and no one will care that the #8 hitter is a slap singles mendoza hitting error waiting to happen because he catches a Knuckleballer every 5th day!
Anyone we get is going to look JUST AS BAD behind the plate when you got guys like Dickey throwing at them and Niese isn’t exactly the easiest guy to catch for either as his stuff breaks pretty hard and in the dirt as well.
of the 18 Passed Balls he had how many were from Dickey?
If you spend all your time trying to make a deal for the least amount of improvement all the good and BIG improvements get overlooked.
Fix the OF and the Catcher is a footnote on our problem sheet.
Cody Ross is still floating around out there and his asking price is said to be 3yrs $25M for an OF that can play LF,CF,RF and can give you 20-25HR, 80-90RBI’s. With what guys like Pagan,Victorino,Upton got and what the Phils gave up for Revere that is a bargain in this market…But he is still floating around out there…
I’d try to sign him and Olivo as a catcher and if a trade arises for Dickey and it is overwhelming take it. At worst all your doing is adding depth! Which we badly need.
Cody Ross is a notorious first half hitter. How come it’s ok to overpay for him for that, but it’s not ok when David Wright does it?
and he got those numbers in Fenway, where he absolutely CRUSHES.
if you wanna bet he’ll do the same in Citi, I will gladly take that bet.
and also I don’t think he wants to come to NY to platoon, which is what he would probably be.
Once again people assuming every player wants to come to NY, and the Mets can get anybody they want.
Man people aren’t too smart around here.
CB
1.”Cody Ross is a notorious first half hitter. How come it’s ok to overpay for him for that, but it’s not ok when David Wright does it?”
- Have you seen his splits? There is no large drop of between Ross 1st half and 2nd half splits. And how is $7M per overpaying for 20HR 80RBI’s to someone who plays every OF position? Mets were willing to go $7M to Ludwick whom doesnt hit lefty’s and isnt gonna provide more power than Ross and not to mention Ludwick is a terrible fielder. As far as Wright my point of view is you dont overpay someone whom is regressing the last 4yrs when you are rebuilding.
2.’and he got those numbers in Fenway, where he absolutely CRUSHES.
if you wanna bet he’ll do the same in Citi, I will gladly take that bet.”
-You are aware he played in our division with the Marlins from 2006-2010 and put up similar numbers from 2006 to 2009…In 2006,2007 he was a rookie who only played 91 & 66 games and wouldve definitely hit above 20HR’s if he wouldve received more playing time. Citi Field is not what it was just ask David Wright. What Should we not sign any power hitters not named Prince Fielder or Stanton?lol..Besides Sunlife was just as big as Citi is now and he was fine.
3.”and also I don’t think he wants to come to NY to platoon, which is what he would probably be.”
-LMAO! Why would he platoon here if he were a Met? What is the GREAT Mike Baxter blocking him?lol…You are aware we have 2 maybe 3 OF spots to fill if Dudas wrist injury saps his power and messes with his swing.
4.”Once again people assuming every player wants to come to NY, and the Mets can get anybody they want.”
- Im sorry who said every player wants to come here, and the Mets can get everyone? I know I didnt…I stated he is a free agent if the Mets called his agent and tried to work out a deal…a deal in which you think is overpaying he would say oh no we’re not interested Ross doesnt want to come to NYC thanks but no thanks Sandy!
5.”Man people aren’t too smart around here.”
-About the only thing you said that makes sense….lol…. You my friend….will never be mistaken for smart. I Guarantee it
Yes I have seen his splits…maybe you haven’t. i’ll give them to you.
2012 pre-allstar: .264/.345/.537 2.3 K/BB
post-allstar: .269/.312/.440 4.1 K/BB
not terrible but you won’t have many bad halves as a right hander in fenway. below average at getting on base and slugging dropped a hundred points in second half. and a 4.1 K/BB is atrocious.
now let’s move on..
2011 pre-allstar: .275/.361/.428
post-allstar: .197/.282/.377
yes, no considerable drop-off there LOL.
2010 pre-allstar: .282/.332/.415
post-allstar: .246/.304/.410 .246/.304 is very bad. I don’t care what stats you’re into.
2009 pre-allstar: .278/.337/.498
post-allstar: .260/.301/.432 thats a hundred point drop in OPS.
2008 pre-allstar: .266/.316/.512
post-allstar: .253/.316/.461 no major difference but still worse.
Not sure what player you were looking at. and I won’t even get into his LH/RH splits.
I’m not saying Ross wouldn’t be a nice player to have and that he isn’t better than anything we have out there right now. was just pointing out your double standard, and that Cody Ross is going to get paid for Fenway numbers, to perform in Citi Field. Doesn’t make much sense to me. In fact, he’s going to get OVERpaid for Fenway numbers. He hit .232/.294/.390 away from Fenway. That is absolutely abysmal. I hope you are at least smart enough to realize that.
I would rather lose without overpaying Cody Ross than lose while overpaying Cody Ross. And I think overpaying would be an understatement.
At least someone else sees it…