10
2012
Rangers May Leave The Mets At The Altar Too…
An article by 
Ken Davidoff of the New York Post points out that Zack Greinke’s bar-raising contract with the Dodgers hasn’t noticeably raised other clubs’ interest in R.A. Dickey. But that says more about how much the Mets want for their chatty knuckleballer than anything else. And it’s why the safe bet still calls for Dickey to at least start the 2013 season in a Mets uniform, he writes.
The Rangers, the apparent runners-up in the sweepstakes that concluded Saturday when Greinke agreed to a six-year, $147-million pact with the ultra-rich Dodgers, are interested in adding Dickey to their starting rotation. However, when the Rangers and Mets conversed about Dickey, the Mets asked for a rich package of young players featuring corner player Mike Olt and at least one other high-ceiling young player, an industry source said. With common ground nowhere close, the Rangers had not countered that proposal as of yesterday afternoon.
I’ve been saying this for quite some time now. The problem is not that teams are not interested in R.A. Dickey, it’s that they are not interested in grossly overpaying for him..
The Mets want teams to ignore the fact R.A. Dickey is 38 and a one-year rental. They want teams to give up at least 14 years of team controlled players for him.
The Royals finally traded Wil Myers like everyone expected and then some. They got someone younger in Shields and a starter who will stick around until the end of the 2014 season. The Royals believe they are a win now team. They also got one of the best relievers in the American League last season in Wade Davis for two other prospects. It was a drop in the bucket for one of the richest player development systems in the game.
I’ve said this before, but had the Mets simply extended Dickey and then shopped him, teams would have been willing to offer a lot more. But the fact that the Mets are unwilling to give their ace even “Oliver Perez money”, has not gone unnoticed by teams looking for a sure thing at the top of the rotation and one that doesn’t turn into a pumpkin after the 2013 season.
An extension would have given Dickey added value.
So the Rangers haven’t countered? That’s because they are busy working out a deal with another team – one with less demands. Or maybe the Rangers would just as soon take a flyer on Kyle Lohse who finished 7th in the Cy Young voting after a great season. Nobody really knows… But the fact they haven’t returned Alderson’s calls says more about Alderson’s offer to them than it does about the Rangers.
A failure to seriously engage in trade discussions, however — as seems to be the case with teams like the Diamondbacks, Red Sox, Royals, Blue Jays and Yankees in addition to Rangers — reflects a significant disparity between the Mets’ ask on Dickey and the buyers’ desires.
The Mets are not on the same page with any team. When the Royals said that talks with the Mets were dead, they meant it. When the Jays spurned the Mets demands for top catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud for Dickey, they meant it. I’m pretty sure that the Rangers have moved on from the Mets because there was no common ground for each team to work with.
As I’ve said all along, unless Alderson is grossly overpaid for Dickey, he’s not going anywhere. So just extend him already…
The Mets think they have all the leverage here. They don’t. Every other team knows the Mets are desperate for outfielders and that they have a fading fanbase, a shrinking attendance, and a tarnished brand.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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This is the second time Davidoff wrote an article implying something about RA’s ‘chattiness’.
Last article he went one step further and implied Dickey and his attention getting antics.
WTH?
I saw that too. As I said when it was first reported and Bayonne too, Dickey was out of line saying he was going to confront Alderson in Nashville and get a deal done. That was WRONG for him to say it and WRONG for him to actually do it. And I’m no fan of Alderson, but you don’t disrespect any GM that way. It was way out of line t put Alderson on the spot like that publicly.
O.K., I must have missed that.
Only thing I read was that RA was willing to meet them in Nashville. He did meet with the trainer in Nashville and he did have a short 10 minute conversation with at least SA there. They went on to state that contract extension wasn’t even discussed.
But….even if he did state he’d be willing to go to Nashville to try and get an extension done, not sure why that would be such a big deal. He lives 15 minutes from that hotel where they held the meetings. Not like he was getting on a plane to go there. And what difference would that make anyway?
Jeeze….we’ve got DWright on record as being highly disappointed his contract negotiations weren’t kept secret by the FO, as he requested.
Now we’ve got Dickey not caring about them being secret and they’ve got a problem with that.
Can’t win for losing with this group….
Well I read that Dickey went to the hotel to discuss a deal and was rebuffed by Alderson in the lobby and told he would not discuss any deal with him one on one and certainly not without his agent present. I think the trainer thing was Dickey’s agent who later showed up dodging collateral damage.
Yes, I remember that. Also agree with you that it was an odd play by Dickey. I think he just wanted to show that he was sincere in wanting to remain a Met, but he went about it the wrong way.
O.K. – like I said, I must have missed that tidbit last week.
Also, I don’t recall if it was Davidoff or someone else that said the trainer thing was an unnecessary PR move. If Ray Ramirez had taken a 15-minute taxi ride to Dickey’s house, no one would have known about it.
I don’t remember him saying he wanted to take over negotiations. just that while they were there, he wanted to sit in on them (with his agent).
It was a bit out of the ordinary to say the least. But, Dickey is not quite your average MLB player either.
First Dickey lives 15 minutes away from the hotel of the Winter Meetings. Maybe he thought a deal for an extension with his new team could be worked out.
Dickey should just say “Lets reach an agreement” or “trade me already if you really are dangling me out there.” All he needs is Dickey a class act a “Renasissance Man” say “I had it here.” “Trade me.” Then his market drops when that word comes out.
Leave them at the altar? Wrong! The Mets haven’t even gotten to the church yet.
The Mets are already married to Mr. Wright.
Couple things…
First, this deal was done last night so it hardly says the Rangers are done trying to find a number one starter and Dickey is the last one known to be available.
Second, Alderson wants to keep Dickey and that’s why he’s insisting on overpayment. No one is not returning his calls, he’s the one being called. Why, if you want to keep someone, would you except anything other than overpayment. See, this is where everyone is misjudging the situation. They are not calling teams and actively shopping Dickey, curious teams are calling them; Sandy has stated a million times his desire to keep RA, not trade him.
Third, everyone says they should just pay him the money he wants, but look at what’s been offered….it’s not number one starter packages. Other teams have shown the Mets Dickey’s value and its not ace money. The same reason no one has offered up that huge package for RA is the same reason they haven’t offered up a contract he’d jump on. Everyone is flipping these arguments around in the wrong direction and pointing the finger at the GM.
It’s way too soon to say what happens with RA. There’s a lot of offseason left and the true quality pitchers are vanishing. Supply and demand is a great thing in baseball and the Mets have absolutely no reason to pay RA until at least February when all the rosters are basically set. A lot can happen between now and then, just ask Detroit. They weren’t in on Prince last season until they lost Victor Martinez after he hurt himself.
Joe, you’re right about a lot, but your thinking that Sandy is calling around and nobody is answering his calls in incorrect. It’s widely known that any inquiries are being made to him, not from him; at least when it concerns a player he wants to sign.
‘Second, Alderson wants to keep Dickey and that’s why he’s insisting on overpayment. No one is not returning his calls, he’s the one being called.’
According to what I read from Harper, this would be correct. He implies SA wants to extend him, ownership wants to trade him. Maybe this is SA’s way of getting what he wants by telling ownership the trade proposals weren’t good enough and/or didn’t make sense for the Mets.
As far as what Dickey has been reportedly asking for, it’s somewhere in the vicinity of $26 MIL for two years. Yankees just gave 38 year old Koroda 15 MIL for 1 year. I don’t think Dickey’s asking price is too high at all.
I have an analogy for that. It is like a guy with an old car in the garage that he loves and the wife hates. So she tells him to sell it. Thus, he advertises a 10K car for 25K, and 3 months later when there are no offers, he tells here “I tried honey but just couldn’t sell it, so I have to keep it”!
So, if no team wants to give up a huge package, they can just extend him for the 2 years at a favorable rate, and have an ace to work around. It really is a no-lose situation. It was never a case where the mets had to trade him, and if they overplay their hand they end up getting nothing back.
he can also be traded down the road if he is extended.
there are also still pelnty of teams that will be short SP and might blink. And that includes the rangers.
and Joe, when did this become about hoarding prospects? What about the fact that teams that are possibly near the end of their window, that keep coming up just short of the WS (and largely due to SP), need to trade some of those controllable years for a chance to win a rign RIGHT NOW. Which is what KC (in their own odd way) are trying to do.
Or are you advocating that the Rangers should focus more on hoarding in the farm, adopting a “small market mentality”, instead of trying to win a championship?
Davidoff is not accustomed to conversing with articulate athletes, apparently.
I want the Mets to keep Dickey. But whether they keep him or move him, they should sign him to a reasonable 2-year extension at Dickey’s asking price without giving him a no-trade clause. Two benefits emerge:
First, the Mets would control last year’s Cy Young award winner for 3 years at a reasonable cost.
Second, Dickey would become much more tradeable because the team whoever traded for him would be assured of 3 years of his service, rather than just one.
So, it appears that the Mets should sign Dickey so that the baseball world knows they are serious in retaining him, and that if anyone wants to trade for him, a healthy bounty will be exacted.
In the alternative, the Mets could simply kick back and laugh while other teams fail to hit Dickey’s un-hittable knuckle ball for the next 3 years.
My solution is simple. Sign him, keep him and count your lucky stars he’s wearing a NY Met uniform.
Period!
I like your thinking.
And if Dickey does become somewhat expendable over the next couple of years, as long as he’s healthy there shouldn’t be much of a problem trading him. From what I’m reading, his contract extension is likely to be very reasonable.
I keep reading and thinking as well that the NTC is an issue with Dickey. He is no dummy and understands the Mets current situation and saw what happened with Reyes. With his personal life and his charities being such a big part of his life there is no way he will risk having to spend the next 3 years in uh… Milwaukee. He’s gonna want a NTC.
maybe compromise and do the old 10 team block list deal?
True, could be. But for the Mets you wouldn’t want that.
Hi everyone. I’ve spoken to a couple of the beat writers and they tell me that the only issue is the annual dollars. Neither of them have mentioned a NTC as a sticking point. It was believed that the mets were okay with a 2 year extension for $29 million, but now it’s being said the Mets want a 2 year/$20MM extension which is far below market value. That’s the stumbling block as I hear it.
So here’s the question, maybe it’s not a stumbling block because the Mets are OK with giving it?
I believe RA said his preference is to stay with the Mets. He loves NY, his family loves NY, it’s only a 2 hour plane ride to his home in Nashville. He added he just didn’t want to be insulted (by the offer) or something to that effect.
10 MIL per year for the reigning NL CY award winner? One who had two solid seasons before that? IMO, that’s a low ball offer. Especially when 38 year old Koroda got 15 MIL from the Yankees.
$29 MIL for the two years seems reasonable to me.
I also read where he was willing to take less than that – somewhere in the vicinity of $26/2.
It’s been apparent all along that there’s been plenty of give and take in these negotiations. But Dickey has been doing all the giving and the Mets are doing all the taking. When Dickey went from a three year extension down to a two year, I thought that was a huge concession on his part and show of good faith. But I agree with you as far as the dollars for a reigning Cy Young, the Mets are low-balling him to an obscene extreme here. Dickey has given the Mets not one great year, but three of them. He deserves to be treated better than this. He has at least three more very solid years left in him, I’m not even worried about that.
Thing is Joe, it’s so early and the Mets need so much. Why shouldn’t they play negotiations out like everyone else? They don’t have the players or the resources to do things based on loyalty and goodwill.
Fact is that he is signed for 5M next year and is going no where unless they get an impact bat. That’s all we know.
I am sorry but I just don’t think the hold up is the cash, especially with all the deferred money going around. I think they are just waiting to see if they can get a GM to panic and if not then will settle for something in between those two numbers as SRT mentioned around 2/26 or a new deal equaling 3/30.
You and Joe are probably right. It’s business and nothing but business.
Probably us fans take this more personal (as in not extending Dickey with a reasonable offer) than Dickey does. I heard his comments where he realizes baseball is a business. And it’s his job and livelihood.
You know as Mets fans we’re always waiting for that other shoe to drop…..
Yup, the Mets just aren’t in a position to do things based things other than business at the moment.
IOW, on a par with what the Royals gave Guthrie. Actuall less if you tax adjust it and account for COL.
I get that RA is 38 and a KB. But Guthrie has had exactly 1 winning season (7-5 in 2007) and has never had an ERA under 3.50, so this is a joke at best and more likely an insult.
IDK…Mil wouldn’t be so bad. Miami, on the other hand, would be.
For RA, to me Mil. would be a death sentence.
If someone is trading for Dickey, they are going to either require a negotiating window or are prepared to drop a Peavy type deal on him after they acquire him and won’t have any issues on an extension. I can’t see trading for Dickey as a rental at all.
I really have no problem with the Mets not rushing anything with Dickey. It is smart to ask for the ranch since he is one of the few assets the Mets have to move at this point. To give him away is insane.
The worst case scenario is he pitches 2013 without an extension. If that is the case, I see him dealt at the deadline when teams will pay a premium to “win now”. A team like the Royals are predicting they will be contending while a team will know they are contending at the deadline. The fact is Dickey, at this moment, is a rental…the same as he will be in July. He value most likely will not diminish much between now and then unless he is hurt.
I love offseason banter. Has anyone considered the reason a deal might not be done is because RA is demanding a no-trade clause. I have no idea if he is or is not but that could be a reason for the delay. As for his chattiness this is just more BS than anything. The guy has been great for us for three years. His health is good and even if the new team has to attempt an extension he will still be relatively cheap. If noone is willing to offer a trade worth an ace pitcher for this kind of money than the Mets are better off holding on to him. I really do not understand the rhetoric about no extension and playing out the season is our front office so daft that they can’t see value starring them in the face. So what if the team is not ready to go to the playoffs, guess what neither are a lot of teams. I seriously don’t get this front office. They need four player to contend and they have made no moves to get this done. Some point to finances but we all know that a winning team will fill the stands and they will make more than they spend. Winning is never guaranteed but I would be willing to bet with the addition of a CF, RF, C, SU or CL they would be in the thick of things until September. That may seem like alot of holes to some but I don’t see it that way. A trade could have netted an outfielder then they could have signed a second tier guy for the other outfielder spot. Sign Flores to split time and all they would have been left with is a RP. SA has been bidding his time waiting for prices to come down but what he will probably be left with is guys not worth having on the ML roster and in that case they have no value. Ugggghhhhh
Actually, RA has mentioned that he would want a NTC. I am guessing that he wants his deal ripped up and a new deal that would include a NTC otherwise they could still trade him during his option year even with the NTC>
Here’s what I think is happening. The Mets know exactly what they can extend Dickey for and know exactly what they can currently get for him in trade. What they are waiting for is to see if either side caves. Why rush that.
I think they are perfecting fine extending Dickey but if they can find a deal that will increase their chances of winning over the next 3+ years then they will do it.
Again, think of it as
A) Re-signing Dickey at 3/36 (including option year)
B) Trading Dickey for Olt
So right now they most likely feel that keeping him at the 3/36 will net more wins during that period than trading for just Olt. Considering they have him under contract and know they can at least get him for the 3/36, why rush?
that is fine in a vacuum, but if the dickey resolution is holding up the rest of the off season moves, then they need to get it resolved much quicker. They can’t wait until February to find out if they are filling a hole by trading RA before trying to fill it another way.
Well that’s if you believe they were going to be players in the FA market to start with. Remember the reports from early November saying the Mets would wait on getting an OF until the musical chairs game ended and see who was left behind. It hasn’t ended yet.
A couple of questions regarding this column:
# 1 Would re-signing Dickey to a team-friendly extension, say 2 extra years at 25 million plus the 5 million 2013 option and then turning around right away and trading Dickey to Texas encourage other players to (re-)sign with the Mets in the future ? Or would it be viewed as somewhat of a betrayel by the GM or ownership, sort of in terms of the Marlins trading Buehrle, Reyes & Co. less than a year after signing them (and at least they chose to sign there initially while Dickey would get sent somewhere while expecting to stay in NY with the Mets) ?
# 2 Could it be that the Mets value RA Dickey highly and know what it will take to extend him but feel that it´s smarter to play the market first before doing so ?
# 3 Would it be better to re-sign Dickey to an extension (say, to the deal mentioned above) now and stop trade discussions (for reasons stated in # 1 and # 2) or try to find out whether a team is willing to pay a high price for the NL Cy Young award winner ?
If you answer these questions honestly, you´ll realize that there really is no downside for the Mets in this:
Either they find a team that is willing to pay a high price for Dickey in a trade that should help the Mets longterm while hurting them in 2013. Or they don´t find such a team and either extend Dickey at some point before spring or enter the 2013 season with Dickey being unsigned beyond the end of the season. And then, if the Mets are doing well and Dickey is too, they can hold onto him and try to extend him as a free agent after 2013 or collect the draft picks by making him a qualifying offer. Or they can shop Dickey at the trade deadline and get a nice haul for him too in all likelihood.
In any case, if the worst case scenario is having the NL Cy Young award winner as your 2013 opening day starter, you´re in a good spot (in terms of this question).
It certainly wouldn´t make sense to give Dickey away to the next best bidder and trade him straight up for, say, Angels C Hank Conger just to get something for him. Especially not with a team like KC overpaying for a SP like Shields who isn´t more likely to win 18 games or throw 220 IP in 2013 than Dickey at this point.
I agree with a lot of this. Especially #2. I have said all along, as long as the Mets are patient and resist just trading him for the hell of it, they are in a no lose situation.
Why should the Mets give him away, I wouldn’t trade him for Olt. He’s proven nothing. How could you extend him and then trade him. You think that’s easy, have you ever heard of a no trade clause. Give me a break. I’m sure R.A. would say sure I’ll sign this deal no go pedal me to ever you want
Last week on SNY John Harper said something to the affect that the problem between the Mets and Dickey was personal. Does anyone know anything more
about this story? Thanks.
I didn’t see the show. I only know what I read from comments on other blogs from those who did see the show. Some comments:
‘Daily News Live John Harper just reported that the Met’s ownership is having a personal issue with Dickey that’s interferring with negotiations. Wney pressed further he said the infamous “some people in the know close to the situation” think Alderson wants to resign Dickey and onwership wants him gone.’
‘The basis was that they were a bit tired of Dickey’s self promotion and chattiness.’
Harper’s article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/haper-mets-team-knuckle-pact-article-1.1215205
Thank you.
And…I hate this ownership!!
‘I hate this ownership!!’
You’ll get no argument from me on that point.
Tally-ho.
That Jeffy Wilpon – seems to have his finger on the pulse once again.
keep telling evyone to no avail….
The price or return on a trade does not change in any real measurable way merely because a free agent guy signs and is no longer available…
If they really felt they needed to up an offer they would have upped it to the Free Agent to get him, not some team that was the backup plan if they didn’t.
Teams have already decided wghat having Dickey is worth in Kids and players. Nothing is going to change that.
And it was always foolish to think you were going to get a lot of young talent for a 38 Year old, especially one who is only signed through this year!
Just Sign him and move on to the other things that need tending, If someone comes back to you who already rejected you then you can raise the price even more on him because he will now be signed through the next 3 years and is no longer a rental and a FA headache next season.
Once again, apparently, the Wilpons are involved to an extent, apart from the $$, and Jeff and Fred might have an issue with RA.
What I don’t know because his story has brought lots of attention, positive type, to this franchise that counters the bad history with the Madoff scandal and the Wilpons questionable moves and signings.
RA, publicly, has been a positive on and off the field so I don’t see what the hold up.
Sign him to a 2 year extension between $20-$30 million or tear up the 2013 and make it a 3 year deal with similar money and then he can help stabilize the rotation next year and possibly in 2014 when Johan is gone.