25
2012
Patience Has Its Price, But Striking Early Has Its Rewards
An article by 
Outfielder Collin Cowgill – As good as it gets?
Although finding a power hitter, particularly one who could man an outfield spot and bat righthanded, was one of the Mets top priorities this offseason, the strategy of waiting the market out has proved futile. Unless upgrading the outfield was never the priority that the front office wanted us to believe it was, lets call this a failure of execution.
The irony of it is that according to MLB Trade Rumors, the top available power hitter that is still on the market is old friend, Scott Hairston. Using ISO, MLBTR ranks the remaining power bats as follows:
- Scott Hairston - .241 ISO
- Adam LaRoche - .238
- Luke Scott & Travis Hafner - both .210
- Kelly Shoppach - .192
- Yuniesky Betancourt - .172
- Brandon Inge - .165
- Miguel Olivo - .159
- Scott Rolen - .153
The list of remaining righthanded outfielders offers no options that one would consider an upgrade.
- Jeff Baker
- Matt Diaz
- Ben Francisco
- Scott Hairston
- Austin Kearns
- Darnell McDonald
- Delmon Young
The likelihood of trading for an outfielder that would constitute an upgrade is also very remote considering how dear the Mets consider their prospects.
The other priorities this offseason, as outlined by Sandy Alderson, also included a third bullpen revamp and addressing the catcher.
The bullpen has also seen no activity, and while we upgraded the catcher with a top prospect who has yet to taste the majors, it did cost the Mets their staff ace and the most elite pitcher in the organization.
Coincidentally, Frank Wren, the GM of the Braves, announced to fans a near identical list of offseason objectives for the 2013 season. His mission was to add a catcher, an outfielder and another reliable bullpen arm. Before the end of November he added Gerald Laird, B.J. Upton and traded for Jordan Walden. Mission accomplished.
I haven’t rendered a judgement yet on Alderson’s offseason – with about four weeks remaining, it’s still too early for that. But unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat in the next few weeks, based on Alderson’s stated goals and objectives for this offseason, his final grade for this offseason may not be a passing one.
In the end it validates what I said back in September and that was to say that fans shouldn’t put any credence into the dog and pony show we heard on WFAN – that there would be no significant changes to the 2012 team - and that 2013 would probably not see upgrades at outfield, catcher and relief.
The Mets’ GM asserted that after two years of evaluating the team and players, they were now ready to transform the 2013 roster into their vision of a team that would contend for the post season.
It was a riveting interview with a message that resonated with many fans, but as I’ve said many times before, never believe anything an Ivy League lawyer says when his lips are moving.
We haven’t upgraded anything in the bullpen or in the outfield, and it might take a couple of years to see if we even upgraded at catcher – and even so it cost the team their most valuable player and trade chip. So in a best case scenario it’s a wash.
The reality is that the 2013 team will most likely lose more games than either the 2011 and 2012 teams. They’ve lost their best pitcher, and for now, last season’s second best slugger is gone too and has yet to be replaced. Any hope for a post season appearance this season is riding on a wing and a prayer.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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Forget Moneyball, or, as DePodesta famously stated, “Moneyball with money”. Alderson has created a mutation of Moneyball: it’s call Penny-pinching ball. Or, maybe more appropriately, Pennyball with pennies. Merry Christmas Mets fans, hope you all enjoyed that lump of coal that Sandy and his overpriced henchmen left in your stockings this morning. And last Christmas. And next Christmas. And the Christmas after that………LOL
Seriously, Merry Christmas to all. Hope you all have a great day!
Hey Joe, I hope you had this article pre written, ready to go and you’re actually enjoying this Xmas morning with a cup of eggnog.
As far as this off season….too early to judge.
I never really bought into the ‘wholesale’ changes for 2013. Too many holes, not enough money and prospects still just a little too thin.
Depends on what we’re judging on as well. Indications right now point to moves being made to improve beyond 2013. Kind of like what AA and the Blue Jays had been doing these past few years. Unlike Loria who just went out and spent money with no thought to actually putting a cohesive team together, AA had a plan – building and striking when the iron was hot. For them it was this off season.
Like many Met fans though, my patience is wearing a little thin. This had better be more of a plan than just saving the team for the Wilpon’s legacy.
Yeah, they do hold prospects dear to them…because of a lack of available funds.
Yeah, he did trade there most valuable player and trade chip…for two, possibly three top prospects that the executives around baseball have universally said was a great deal. One in which the Mets fleeced Toronto and perfectly played this seasons market for top pitchers(despite what was said only a week earlier in a post much like this one)
Yeah, Sandy has waited too long to upgrade the outfield and bullpens…but perhaps he just didn’t have a choice. Maybe, like you said Joe, it’s all about the money. Maybe he can’t afford the upgrades.
Remember, they DID supposedly lose over 20 mill this past season and upwards of 70 mill the season before. Maybe the money just is not there this season.
Maybe he’s just working the phones, trying to find a real good outfield bat and its just taking time. The point is, just like before the RA trade when everyone was screaming that he misjudged his top player’s market, sometimes these pesky baseball decisions don’t happen when we want or expect them to be done by. Unfortunately as fans, our hopes and goals don’t often play out the way we like because of a variety of reasons.
Maybe he thought 17 mill for a cheat like Melky was too much…I agree.
Maybe 26 mill for a borderline mediocre player like Ross was insane…I agree.
14 mill for Liriano? Wow!
25 mill for Guthrie? Damn!
With prices like this, I don’t doubt for a second that Sandy’s budget has been just to little to make a dent into the Mets’ problems and therefore any signings would be pointless and not even upgrades. Maybe at this point he can’t just say that this season is going to be another rebuild and evaluate year because, like the previous two years, the Wilpons don’t want the gate receipts to suffer anymore; as pointless as that goal is.
Basically, nobody knows what’s really happening. The only thing we do know is that they have a growing minor league system with an excess of young top shelf pitching on the way. Three of those pitchers: Wheeler, Fulmer, and Syndergaard have been brought in because of Sandy. The top catching prospect in the majors as well, brought in by Sandy. The resigning of the franchise player, signed by Sandy.
Despite popular opinion, it’s already been an extremely productive year. This is just my opinion and yes it’s against what you’ve been writing, but opinions are like…………, we all have one.
ok…but thats called a changing market. how long can u hold on to the excuse that players are over-priced until you adapt and start signing some of those players ?
Billy Bean signed Cespedes for more money than we were willing to give any free-agent.
You cant hide behind that forever
Woof. I don’t think we fleeced Toronto. After all, they got Dickey. But I agree wholeheartedly with everything else in your post.
Patience is a virtue.
There is just no way the Mets go into this season with this outfield. It’s inconceivable.
Truths -
you wrote: “Remember, they DID supposedly lose over 20 mill this past season and upwards of 70 mill the season before. Maybe the money just is not there this season.”
Yes, yes – they are losing money. As I wrote a couple times this week after Newsday published the attendance income for the past couple of years. Income relating to fans coming to the Ballpark fell from $180 million the first year that Citi Field opened to $126 million this year. You add what they lost in attendance revenue last year and it’s close to $100 million dollars some (hopefully most of) it could have gone back into the club.
People will not come to expensive Citi Field to was a team made up mostly of AAAA players. So you can assume that attendance will take an even bigger drop next year.
So the Mets FO raises the individual game ticket prices.
It takes money to make money and the Mets don’t want to spend. Do the math – they are heading backwards.
And I realy don’t want to hear about money coming off the books. I know I sound like a broken record but tens of millions of dollars has come off the books in the last couple of years and all it did was enable the Mets to lower their payroll from $150 mil to $100 mil. They won’t or can’t reinvest in their own team.
The only money Sandy has spent (aside from Wright’s contract) has been on the bullpen – and that turned out to be a disaster.
I truely believe that the Madoff scandle along with the two suicides has broken Fred’s will to turn a profit on this club. I think he should just walk away from the Mets and sell to soemone who knows what he is doing.
For the upteenth time – Sandy was not brought in to help the team – he was brought in to help the Wilpons with the club’s finances. And he’s almost there – I reckon Sandy will be gone by this time next year – his work will have been done.
Merry Christmas!
I am glad that you see these things as the reality of the situation!
It makes perfect sense that money problems still exist even though they have improved a lot and that the future is looking brighter because of the deals made recently.
Keep up the good thoughts!
Alan -
They were terrible the second half of last year. Really really awful. And all they have done since was to get rid of players and trade a 20 game winner.
How have they improved for 2013?
I know it doesn’t look good for 2013, but that being said..Alderson is priming the Mets for a long succesful run from 2014 on. I dout he’s done this year. He’s going to trade for an outfielder i believe. He got us power bats in this new young catcher and Buck as well. I know Buck is a thow away and a terible defender. But as a backup catcher he has pop, and I’m sure Travis D’Arnaud will be in The Majors this year. Alderson was and could still be working on a Center Fielder in Cocco Crisp. A patch job I know. Crisp is still a very good base stealer. I believe he stole 37 last year and has one yr. left for around $7mill. with an option for 2014. Believe me I’d like to see better this also, but look at what Alderson is building. Harvey, Niese, Weiler, Noah Syndergaard and a long term power hitting catcher. All Young and talented. Next yr they will look at a much better Free agent crop and add from there. It’s tough to see this yr. treated like it is, but there is a good plan ready to evolve soon.
Merry Christmas to all! Had morning coffee in a huge Mets mug!
I agree, Mark. It’s too early to tell, but it appears that SA’s moves are directed toward bringing in quality, rather than blowing what little money he has to make a ripple in an ocean bereft of quality outfielders.
I think Cowgill can be paired with Niewenhuis to form a workable platoon in CF.
Hairston would be a logical signing, but for the right price. 10m/2 yrs is not exorbitant, given some of the ridiculous contracts to other OFers cited above. Signing Hairston would resolve a lot of issues because it not only improves our outfield, but our bench, as well. It make us deeper and solidifies our line-up from the right side.
In the alternative, Coco Crisp & Josh Willingham are logical trade targets in what appears to be a very limited market. Duda & Valdespin top the non-pitching trade chips, unless Arizona really likes Ike, in which case Justin Upton could be pursued as part of a larger package.
2013 was NEVER going to be the year we rise to prominence. I liken it to 1983, and 2014 to 1984. That is my expectation, so I’d rather SA proceed methodically, rather than try to make a killing in a very weak OF FA/Trade market. Now may not be the time.
For that matter, I’d rather the Mets, as an organization, scale back from the policy of working the pitch count, as I’d like to see guys like Duda get much more aggressive earlier in the count.
Merry Christmas to all!!!
Agree mark. When 1/3 of your payroll is being spent on one starting pitcher, you just don’t have the wiggle room to fill roster spots with productive players; especially in today’s market.
So,…what do you do when you know you can’t compete unless you start trading away the young cheap prospects you’ve been trying to fill your system with? Obviously not much…
He has however set the team up for its best chance at a sustainable, young, cheap, and effective roster built with pitching by trading away and getting top value for players who the team wouldn’t have won anyway. I still can’t understand why folks out there don’t see what’s going on.
It’s obvious Sandy doesn’t have the go ahead to tell the fans that the Mets are in a holding pattern; waiting for their prospects to reach the majors. It’s so obvious and yes, Sandy has stated otherwise about not punting, but just look at the market, the trades he’s made, and the ones he hasn’t and that should tell you that this team in not a win now team.
How can you say there are no significant changes to the 25 man roster? We currently have no Torres no Hairston no Thole no Nickeas no Cedeno, no Dickey, no Rauch, no Ramirez or Pelfrey. I am sure there are others gone as well. Where some get angry is that for some reason they expected big names to be brought in THIS offseason. That was never happening.
‘…they expected big names to be brought in THIS offseason. That was never happening.’
This.
SRT: I have a different opinion. Your idol and the idol of many Met fans was extended. I think the commitment was too long. With a trade for ready made high caliber ML prospects then 2014 would look even brighter. We retained a big name for too long.
There is change, but I’m guessing that the point was, there weren’t roster upgrades and as constructed this team could lose more than last year’s team. The best part of the patience argument is that one can always be more patient. And just because mine is wearing thin, doesn’t mean someone else can’t have more patience.
I applaud you patient folk. I just don’t believe it makes the Mets a better team now or in the long run. Like I’ve been saying, hard to call three losing seasons progress (yes I think 2013 will be a losing season). Hard to get me to feel sorry for billionaires who are using Mets money to cover personal losses or interests (Frank McCourt anyone??). And hard to defend a $100MM payroll in New York City when you own your own network in this TV market (even though we as fans think it’s our job to defend these owners). I wish we would spend more energy begging for a better team. Than again, defending our “poor” owners or begging for a new team won’t yield a better team. So there’s that…
Sandy Alderson ( aka the lawyer ) supporters will now be referred to as The Firm.
Trs: Based on the opening day 25 man roster
Thole, Bay, Torres, Nickeas, Cedeno, Pelfrey, Dickey, Rauch, Ramirez, Byrdak, Acosta, Batista are all gone
That’s 48%.
then if Hairston doesn’t come back thats 52%
you have to be plain ignorant if you see no changes .
Yes you’re right with the exception of dickey….. Crap out and more crap coming in
you have to be plain ignorant if you see any improvements
Good point. Everyone’s complaining about the Mets OF situation, but I’d be copasetic with it if the bullpen actually improved by adding good arms to join Edgin, McHugh, Familia, and Francisco. There is still a good pool of FA relievers that would be suitable to their slim budget. Examples? Rafael Perez, Kyle Farnsworth, JP Howell, Hisanori Takahashi, Joey Devine, Takashi Saito, Brandon Lyon (How is he not signed yet?), Matt Lindstrom, Jose Valverde…you get the picture. People seem to forget how awful of an OF the Mets had when they last sniffed a WS? The main focus should be pitching. Go get Marcum and Saunders (for insurance), then go nuts for relief.
here is the kicker…
a bullpen is heavily dependent on how they are used…the coaching staff…..the defense….the catchers relationship with the umpire….the catchers ability to block balls in the dirt….its not just a matter of talent…
the fact that we have kept the same coaching staff is alarming
Out of everything you listed, it seems like the only thing that worries me at this point is the staff, or more specifically, Collins & Warthen. Some fans out there still want to give Warthen the benefit of the doubt because of how he’s handled the young guys and that he “produced” a 20-game winning Cy Young award winner, negating the fact that under his watch, the entire staff have been wishy washy and inconsistent. Dont get me started on the arms that have broken down with him in charge.
yeah, all those things play a significant factor though
IMO, paul loduca not starting in that final game vs the marlins in 2007 played a factor in joe west not giving tom glavine his normal strike zone. paul was great with glavine. willie randolph was so damn hard headed when he didnt like somebody ( see ruben gotay )
Just-Da-Damaja,
“you have to be plain ignorant if you see any improvements”
Oh you didnt get the MEMO???
Since Sandy RARELY if EVER makes any good additions to the big league ball club…His followers never have anything to hang their hat on..So instead their new thing is “ADDITION by SUBTRACTION” …..Funny thing is most of those subtractions are bad additions made by the SANDMAN in the 1st place….Torres,Ramirez,Rauch,Chin-Lun Hu,Boof BOnser,Bucholtz, Paulino,Eamus,Willie Harris,rottino, etc etc etc…..
dude , for what its worth i tell you again, i am not pro sandy or some bull , its about my team and sticking to them . for you pathetic guys its all about the GMs , do you realize how poor you guys look like in here ? jeez always the same , sandy here , omar there , FCK IT !!! I cannot control anything as a fan , so why bother who the boss is or who the CEO is or some bull? i´ll stick with the employees , the team . whatever, you are way to ignorant
What about basing it on the roster in september ?
Starting 8 position players
Bay – replaced by Duda
Torres – replaced by ….Kirk ?
Duda – replaced by…Hairston/Valdy?
Thole was already benched, and Shoppach was starting
Byrdack – out for the year
Pelfrey – out for the year
Nikeaus – no playing time
Ramirez – i believe he is still here
That leaves Rauch – Acosta – Bastista – Cedeno
But please dont let that get in the way of the Firm’s attempts to make Sandy Alderson look like he is doing work here
Nope youre wrong…….No one expected big names….they expected upgrades all Ive heard Mets fans ask Sandy for was MAJOR LEAGUE OUTFIELDERS…They didnt want to see another season with Quad-A Outfielders.
I didnt hear any big uproar from Mets fan when Josh Hamilton, Swisher, BJ Upton, Greinke or any other big name free agent was signed….Because no one expected the Mets to be players on those big time free agents…
You did hear an uproar when Sandy traded for a 27yr old Cowgill who has no power(which Sandy keeps telling us he will add, MORE POWER)no major league experience but a few games last year….Reason being is he is another Quad-A Outfielder…more of the same…
Id rather go into the season with a 21yr old with upside than a 27yr old whom his upside is of a 4th Outfielder/Platoon hitter.
I still don’t understand where you get off saying “they expected upgrades all Ive heard Mets fans ask Sandy for was MAJOR LEAGUE OUTFIELDERS…They didnt want to see another season with Quad-A Outfielders.”
and then earlier in December you said
“The A’s are another team the Mets should try and work out a deal with for one of those Outfielders, they have 6! 1.J. Reddick 2.Y. Cespedes 3.C. Young 4.C. Crisp 5.S. Smith 6.C. Cowgill. Young would be a perfect fit but I doubt Beane parts with any unles bowled over to think he got Young from the D’backs for peanuts”
So can you please explain why you listed Cowgill as one of 6 outfielders you would like the Mets to try and acquire but then once they actually acquire Cowgill you say he’s a Quad-A Outfielder?
So these are the changes for a playoff bound team in 2013? Are you insane? This is not what he promised. There are no upgrades. He swapped Cowgirl for Hairston, John Buck for Thole, Anthony Rekker for Nickeas, Who knows who for Dickey. Downgrade at Cedeno, still short an outfielder, You are so easily duped by Sandy. He thrives with saps like you.
Spot on Joe. This is quickly or should I say slowly becoming a 5 to 7 year rebuilding plan despite all of the Alderson be happy speak. We make one move a year moving one current all star at a time. Imagine if he hadnt had guys like Dickey nd Beltran to deal. Blew it on Reyes. And by the way his contract is starting to look cheap. Certainly if money ball meant the ability to find undervalued talent our three headed genius has failed. We will see how their drafts work out over time but they already missed on 2011 in one respect. Nimmo may end up a decent player although he continues to lag but the guy picked right after him was the minor legue pitcher of the year. Jose Fernandez of the Marlins. Same age as Brandon and he will probably see the majors some time this year while Nimmo won’t sniff it until 2015. I truly believe Sandy is here only to keep thevWilpons in office. It will be a long decade for Mets fans.
How valuable a chip was Dickey before this year? Dickey came out of nowhere and had a great year and SA was wise to cash in. Joe, You wrote a piece blasting Alderson about a week before that trade went down. Maybe this article will provide a similar result. We can only hope.
Merry Christmas all !!
Yes, The Firm believes that Sandy Alderson’s hard work increased Dickey’s trade value.
I really don’t think the Upton brothers are very good. Has either of them EVER hit .300? Oooo they hit a few home runs. That doesn’t make up for being horrible fielders and usually hitting .250. I am happy the Mets have Sandy in charge. There are no free agents that fit the plan for the team. Instead of trying to buy their way out of a oroblem (which never seems to work for the team) the team is now trying to actually build a long term solution.
I agree PENNMETSFAN. I don’t like the upton bros. either. I don’t see that they are worth there contracts. I see them being trouble with attitude as well. I do like Bourne though. Just not at the length of the contract he wants. Love his work effort.
LMAO —> I see them being trouble with attitude as wel
Brothers with Attitude !
LOL….Wow thats crazy!
The F’d up part about that is NEITHER brother has ever been involved in ANY TROUBLE!
So where is this thought process coming from???
The only thing you can bring up on either is BJ arguing with Loria after Loria got in his face for supposedly not running hard enough for a ball in the OF.
Justin just when he said that he didnt care what the Arizona fans thought of him….The same fanbase who calls him the N-word and all kind of racial slurs for not carrying their pitiful team….Our own David Wright doesnt carry his team and Mets fans are more rabid than AZ fans and DW is never insulted….especially with slurs
Upton Brothers = Cash Money Brothers
CMB – we all we got !!
BJ Upton in 7 years has fielded over 1,000 flyballs…he gets into an argument over 1 and turns into a lazy outfielder…who shockingly the atlanta braves ( who are rumored to have access to ESPN ) willingly signed ( over Bourne ) for 75 mil
Justin Upton has been linked to quite a few teams for being such a trouble case.
You would think my dude was slinging coke and slapping women up.
These cats basically want the 1940′s back
If you wanna laugh…check out this article
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-10-06/sports/sp-4310_1_kevin-mcreynolds
Kevin McReynolds, the Silent Met, Just May Be Best Met of Them All
“He wouldn’t look bad on a magazine cover. He’s a pleasant-looking young man with the map of Arkansas on his plain but honest face. He looks like a guy who would know how to plow straight and strip-milk. He makes a bee line for the Ozarks once the season is over in case the fish are jumping and the deer are getting careless or the turkeys slow. Kevin gets enough neon in the summer.”
“Kevin had his chance in the 9th when he came up, representing the tying run in a 6-3 game with 2 men on. But he cleverly kept himself off the 11 o’clock news by popping up to the third baseman.”
===================
I will never forget this
In the NLCS at the eve of a game 7, Kevin said: “I’ll love it if we win, but if we don’t, I love fishing”
Do you not remember when BJ Upton tried to tear Longoria’s head off in the dugout after Longoria approached him for being lazy in the field in 2010? Or when Maddon had to bench him twice for lack of hustle and thinking a hit was a HR and getting thrown out?
Your point about Justin Upton is a cop out. I have no doubt fans yelled rac ist remarks and that is totally unacceptable. But you can’t tell me every fan was doing that. He didn’t say he doesn’t care what his fans think about him based on those taunts – he said it when he was getting booed.
He said his comment after 0-for-5 and stranded four runners in scoring position in Arizona’s 8-6 loss in July.
To which he responded “To be honest with you, I don’t care anything what the fans think of me.” Stop acting like he was saying it because of racial taunts.
When the fans booed him at the end of the game he wasn’t even on the field so how could he even know there were slurs thrown? He couldn’t.
They were separate incidents.
And I think the point is, if the Arizona fans get under his skin to the point he says something like that – what will happen in New York?
I remember similar incidents like that too with Darryl Strawberry. But you were like what 2 or 3 then or 6 like Cerrone?
So your point is what? That Upton is just as talented as Strawberry or that Strawberry never let personality issues get in his way of performing?
“Do you not remember when BJ Upton tried to tear Longoria’s head off in the dugout after Longoria approached him for being lazy in the field in 2010?”
i recall Manny Ramirez and Youkliss going at it in a shoving match…none of that stopped them from winning…lets not get into the fights the 86 mets had with each other…
and i recall David Cone getting into a shoving match with Buddy Harrelson while he was a Met…
I guess ATL saw no problem giving Bourn the boot and going after mr. trouble-maker BJ Upton…
o by the way…Bourn still hasnt been signed yet…
any reason we cant go for him?
o, his game is heavily dependent on his legs…he is too old…will command too much money…
u can cut / paste that excuse for the next 100 leadoff hitters to hit the free-agent market as they all will be in their late 20′s / early 30′s…and the really good fast guys will command more money than Sandy is going to want to pay…
Robinson Cano? Boras client, middle infielder, probably a bust
Elsbury? Boras client, 30 years old, game dependent on legs, injury prone
please name the free-agent that you think we should sign
YAY —> I am happy the Mets have Sandy in charge
Adam LaRoche isn’t better than Hairston? Yeah he is. Other than being a lefty bat, i’d love him on the Mets. The guy’s ‘median’ OPS is probably .775 – . 825, with 20 – 25 hrs /yr to go along with 80 – 90 ribbys, ‘on average’. What the hell is puny about that?
He’s probably out of our price range, but the guy would be a quality addition and he is a full-time player, not a platoon guy.
And the off-season ain’t over. Let’s see what it all looks like by January 15th.
We dont have anyplace to put LaRoche, Ike’s in his spot. We need a true outfielder.
He was valuable – back to back 200 inning seasons and a strong ERA. Everyone looks better after they win the Cy Young. My point is there has been almost no additions to this team that were meaningful other than the cashing in of already valuable chips. Other than that a lot of bad decisions. We are on the hope train now towards 2015 and Sandy is he conductor. Let’s hear no more excuses from these guys – they own this now.
i wouldn’t trade Ike in any deal for Justin Upton. Would be a bad trade. Ike’s a budding 35hr+ guy & plays great ‘D’…never mind my fantasy he could also be plugged into RF. No matter, the guy’s a budding ‘young’ star. Keeeeep him!
How about Luke Scott ? Maybe a stint in the big apple can re-energize him.
Out of their prime players have comeback years all the time, its called “Comeback Player Of The Year”. At this point its all we can hope/afford for.
It also wouldnt surprise me if SA finds an american league team with surplus outfielders and a need for a DH/1B who we can swap Duda for.
This team has 65 wins written all over it in ’13.
the 2013 mets will not win any less then 73 games
The 2013 Mets will not win more than 73 games in 2013
$50 says they will.
i bet 50$ too that the mets win 73+ games
New year, new philosophy. I want Alderson out. Cant take his lies after every offseason follow by presenting a worse team every opening day. I’m done with him. He’s a natural born liar.
HAHAhaha…..of course, hes a lawyer
>>but as I’ve said many times before, never believe anything an Ivy League lawyer says when his lips are moving.
Obama is a Harvard trained lawyer. I guess you’re right.
Didn’t think Acosta was on the roster to start the season but it doesn’t matte. With the exception of Dickey and Pelf who got hurt they are all scrubs. Or by wholesale changes do we mean crap in and crap out. And trading the cy young award winner wasn’t exactly a move to better the 25 man roster for now.
None of it really matters and as I said earlier Alderson is driving the hope train to 2015. His train, he owns. No more excuses from these guys.
Given the fact of the team’s financial situation, it isn’t surprising that Alderson will be bargain hunting again this January. But the off season is stlll young and there is time to fulfill the promise to address the outfield and upgrade the bull pen. (And to add a starter or two for depth, as well.) The more time goes by, the more prices become reasonable.
As much as I loved R.A. Dickey, trading him was absolutely the right thing to do. And the return Alderson got for him was nothing short of phenominal. In my view, he has alrerady upgraded the catcher’s position by exchanging Thole for Buck. When Travis arrives some time in May or June, he will hopefully be icing on the cake. Syndergaard is a stellar prospect, and the Becerra kid is an intriguing lottery shot.
Hairston’s situation remains unresolved, and there is every possibility that spring will find him on the roster. I was disappointed that Sandy didn’t claim Scott Van Slyke when he came along on the waiver wire last week, but perhaps that is telling us that Sandy is looking at something better. There are a several good bats available in trade now, both experienced players and high upside, major league ready prospects. We can only hope that Alderson considers his Fall statements seriously and strives to deliver on what he has promised.
Is Jair Jurgens still available? He would be a good option for the rotation, yes?
He is available, and on a low cost, incentive based contract, Jurrjens would be a good option. Dallas Braden, if he will be ready to pitch at the start of the season, is another in that category.
Braden wont be ready until the middle of next season.
Jurrjens was putrid last year. 6.89 era, 19ks in 48 innings. no thanks.
BTW, why is Scott Hairston on the top of the list of remaining power bats and #4 on the list of remaining right handed outfielders that no one would consider an upgrade?
Maybe thats the whole point of the title? All the upgrades are gone.
For the Mets, rebuilding was not a plan as it was an outgrowth of corporate downsizing. To think of it in terms of competitive planning ignores all the underlying factors that made such financial cutbacks necessary.
If we had to re-build, I wish there were valid reasons for it other than Selig’s interference. What we have seen is a corporate executive getting rid of viable assets not to raise cash but to save it. In the business world that is called downsizing. In the world of baseball that is called a fire sale. In the business world of baseball it is called not having the resources to produce a competitive team.
Looking at the players we had when Sandy took over and the prospects we already had down on the farm, was this a team in need of virtual total rebuilding or in need of a few extra parts? Was it also a team void of the possible hopefuls for the limited smooth transition a few years down the road?
Again, if one wants to say there were no resources left to field a competitive team and thus Sandy had to dismantle what he had and trade for prospects, fine. But it should be looked at in that manner and only be called a plan in the purist of sense of corporate stability. It was not necessitated by the player assets.
Yes, well done Joey.
At the end of the day it all begins and ends at the money.
It’s in most of the press’ interest not to knock the club and to lay off what is really happening to the team. Rebuilding makes far better print then restructuring capital.
I do get frustrated with some who have sipped some of the Mets’ Koolaid – which is that Sandy has had a plan to improve the club all along. That’s hogwash. Again, the tell-tale sign was letting Reyes go. I knew something didn’t smell right before that but I was willing to give Sandy the benefit of the doubt. After that – it was all too obvious what he, Jeff, fred and Selig were up to.
You don’t build an extremely expensive stadium in which to watch a game then gut the team. But thanks to Fred’s relationship with Maddox the fans are paying for it.
The best way to protest is to watch the games on TV – not in Jeff’s expensive playground. Wait for the team to get better – and if it doesn’t fred will go bankrupt and we will get a new owner.
But believe what Sandy is doing is in the best interest of the club and the fans – then you are enabling a lie.
Thanks tlagee,
See my message to Hotstreak and the attachments I provided which further proves that point. Though the $25 million saved from no longer having Johann will provide the Wilpons more financial flexibility in 2014, it will be virtually useless based on circumstances they will have to face in 2016. And Sandy knows that better than anyone.
Hope you and yours had a wonderful holiday.
Hi Joey,
Very good post. I see the evolution in your thinking. Now you see that the Madoff situation made survival of the owners the plan. Winning was NOT in the plan. It was time for the Wilpons to leave but it was convoluted by Selig. SA was the hired hand to accomplish the mission of the Wilpons survival as owners. Now a new mission to rebuild is in place.
Hi Hotstreak,
Hope you and yours had a very Merry Christmas. I know my better half did and next month so will the credit card company!
We have to rebuild now because we were forced to, not because it happened out of evolution. But then, as tlagee, myself and others have said, the Wilpons’ financial troubles as far as operating the Mets are concerned are far from over and, I believe only going to get worse.
And with that, how soon will we then be in the midst of another re-building cycle? I ask because many cite 2014 as the year we hopefully start bouncing back and enter the free agent market forafter the Mets don’t pick up Santana’s option, their projected payroll drops to $56.4 million including the estimated arbitration results for Davis, Parnell, Murphy, Gee, Tejada and Turner and a handful of other less key players. In sum, that $56.4 million figure represents nine players plus 16 other slots estimated at one half million dollar each. Yes they can add to that payroll. We can have the guys we have now, the prospects and add some free agents were needed.
Sounds good, right? But what about two years down the road to 2016?
The projected roster costs then shoots up $25 million up to $81 million. That is without the additions Sandy says we can afford in 2014. To get some experienced players that are not just going to be “stop gaps” is going to cost money – with a commitment going just through 2016 being only three years. (2014 – 2016). It’s going to be hard to sign a free agent other than one on the downward arch for three years. And in 2016 both Parnell and Murphy become free agents. OK, that’s only two, however, those in 2017 include Davis, Tejada and Gee.
So where does the money come from? Or rather, where does the money go? The refinancing and civil suit settlement did not make their problems go away, they only delayed them being paid back In 2016, the Wilpons will have to start paying back some of the refinanced loans. So too with that $162 million civil suit. The attached also goes into detail about the problems associated with that too.
So see my point about rebuilding being a camouflage? There is real concern about not only being able to afford free agents but retaining the key players we have now. It’s not about 2014, it’s about 2016. What then?
As Buffy Saint-Marie said “they go round and round and round in the circle game”.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2012-roster.shtml
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/10/6538003/mets-are-building-october-tradition-too
Joey D.
OK Joey, here we go again. While I don’t disagree with you entirely, I always feel compelled after your posts to remind you that YES, there IS rebuilding going on in this Wilpon franchise saving financial plan. You always speak as if the rebuilding is merely collateral happenstance to the tearing down and putting the team on stable fanancial footing once again. If that were the case, please tell me why Sandy held out so long to get the haul that he did for Dickey. Do you really think that ownership is not aware that this is a results oriented town and that:
winning = attendance
and
attendance = revenue
or do you feel that they will just happily go along with a 65 -70 win team, losing money each and every year? That is excactly the picture you’re painting here.
Trust me Joey, I share the disappointment of the last few years with you. It has been abysmal and hard to watch at times. Also, in a perfect world, we would never have had to give up Reyes. And just like you, I resent the Selig intervention and the whole “saving the frinchise for the Wilpons” idea. It would no doubt have been in the best interest of all the fans if the Wilpons were forced to sell at the time. But we weren’t that lucky.
The intervention from the MLB swooped in and Sandy was hand picked for the mission, which is completely underway. So my question to you and alot others is this: What did you expect Sandy to do after it became evident to all of us that he HAD to first SAVE the franchise and put the finances back in order. Everyday you and others write about how he tore down a great existing core (same core by the way that was responsible for the consecutive late season meltdowns). How he just had to add to that core and we would have been fine. But tell me something, if you believe that his primary mission was to save the team financially, as you say everyday, I ask you, where was he getting the money from to ADD to the core???
Sandy obviously has financial parameters he’s forced to work within. This is not just today, this has been since he took over. We all know this. It just seems so futile and a waste of energy to come here everyday and say “he did this” “he did that”……..when we ALL know the sad truth; he did what he had to do to save the franchise for the Wilpons. Like it or not, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
Has he made all the right moves? Of course not. Should he be bashed for those mistakes? Of course he should be. But I think we all need to accept these facts first and then evaluate his moves from there:
- the owners are greedy crooks
- the owners are going nowhere anytime soon
- Sandy is rebuilding with youth within his financial parameters
- sound financial footing must be achieved to be successful again on any scale, and
- he may, or may not be successful
Now once all of that is accepted, lets then judge Sandy within the framework and parameters he’s working. Makes no sense to go back 2 years and say the tear down didn’t have to happen. No, we don’t have to like it. BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.
Also Joey……please with all the financial projections. You sound like a financial advisor/prognosticator who has sat down with the teams copmptroller and gone through the books. And if you haven’t, you’re only working within “publicly” disclosed information in others articles or the internet
Do you really think that ownership is not aware that this is a results oriented town and that:
winning = attendance
and
attendance = revenue
===========================
Fred Wilpon – 1980
https://plus.google.com/photos/112206184788769679724/albums/5656072820853221377?banner=pwa
Watchman -
really good sane post. I don’t think you and Joey are that far apart in thinking.
I guess the frustrating part with sandy is that he is a bit disingenuous with his statements about how good the team currently is.
Yes, he was brought in to fix the finances. I just don’t think that fans should be under the impression that what Sandy was brought in to do was to fix the club. Sure, he’ll do the best he can under the circumstances but his first job is to get the finances in order – not to put a competitive team on the field.
So, this is still all about Fred’s finances and not about the fans. Therefore, the fans shouldn’t be enablers and should stop paying money for a sub-average team.
This is a team in the number one market in the world – there is a certain responsibility connected with that. Those who rely on the addition through subtraction don’t see the real gutting going on. Sandy is waiting under the table for crumbs – that’s what 2013 is all about. Patience? Wait until 2015 or later? Fine – as long as people understand that we are not rebuilding as much as replacing major league players with cheaper versions.
TL…Lets just for the sake of debate say YES Sandy was brought in to fix the finances….
I still say he is a failure at that.
We lost 23 Mil with what was somewhere a 95-100 Mil payroll.
If we manage cut our way to break even we will have to wind up at a Budget of 77Mil while keeping attendance static (unlikely now that Dickey has left)
So lets say he cuts his way to break even.
Will that team be good enough to make attendance go up? Doubful. It may hit rock bottom at that point but here is the rub. If the imperative is to NOT LOSE MONEY then whenever we get to that 77M payroll/Break Even point there will be no way to increase attendance from that point on.
77Mil payroll is certainly not enough to win the games some say is important to attendance and it cretainly won’t allow you to go get the next Beltran like we did in 2005 that made people rush to buy season tickets.
So he is not accomplishing anything! Certainly not making the baseball better and the finances are the same, losing money just at a much lower scale but at a scale that when we finally dobreak even there will be no way to increse revenues to have the finances to make the baseball better.
We will be stuck in a RUT that will take a decade of top overall picks to get out of….
takes money to make money Metsie
Thats right but if they don’t have it now nothing about cutting Payroll is going to make it materialize later….
So the goal should be to work on MAKING money not save what little they have.
And this is not being done hence they are not fixing Financials just locking them in long term.
Hi tlagee,
As mentioned to Watchman below, it is indeed a shame that we have to get ourselves involved in the financial structure and economic problems facing the Wilpons and just not concentrate on the team on the field, the farm system, and the moves to bring us home a team that can contend for the world series championship.
It’s a problem of the internet age – too much information is out there that we would not have access to otherwise. It’s not so much us who do web surfing, but the amount of reputable web sites that can investigate these things and bring them to our attention.
If this was thirty years ago, we’d be asking what could be going through the general manager’s head to be doing what he’s doing. Today, it’s being explained to us in cold, cruel reality.
Hi Watchman,
Baseball is still a business and you have to take seriously the harsh economic realities facing the Wilpons years down the road as many of us have pointed out.
You see, it is quite difficult to predict how well a team can compete in the years ahead but steps can be done to try and achieve that which has been the argument in defense of Sandy’s “vision”.
But it is quite different in the economic world. One can project with a better sense of certainty how long the financial drought might be, how long the cutbacks due to decreasing revenue must remain and thus how much operating expenses one can afford. With modest economic goals, one can get by. But in the baseball industry, getting by economically under these circumstances does not mean sustaining a winning club if the money is not there.
That’s why I’ve been harping so much on the underlying business conditions and contending how that will not allow the Mets to sustain fielding a possible contender. We’ve seen the long periods of drought in Kansas City and Pittsburgh. We’ve seen the occasional spike in financially strapped teams like San Diego and Miami which then have to fall back due not to a lack of talent but the inability to sustain operating costs to keep the team strong. We’ve seen Oakland finally come back after five dismal seasons but at the same time seen Billy Beane forced to trade good young and proven talent for prospects. How long can he continue doing that? The group he has now is going to want more money as well. Money ball did not save him before from Oakland collapsing and he is going to have to face the same thing in a few more seasons as well – unless they get the OK to move to San Jose which Beane says will provide the necessary financial resources he doesn’t have in the Bay area.
And for the Mets, the debt and payment schedule is real. The ability as to how far one can go to cut back costs has been noted. The projected revenue based on ticket prices established in 2009 seems totally unattainable now. Refinancing has added to the debt payment but stretched the payments out and made each individual one smaller. So despite losses over the past few years, these measures will enable the Wilpons to still own the team for as we know, even Pittsburgh and Kansas City have been making profits despite the small market, poor attendance and losing teams.
And so the groundwork has now been established by Sandy in which the Wilpons can retain ownership but it’s going to be very difficult to translate that fiscal achievement into a competitive achievement on the field. Remember, for a New York team to have to operate in the manner of a small market club, there has to be tremendously overwhelming problems with long-term capital.
I was never before concerned with the business end of the game and I hope there is a time that I won’t have to be again. I would love to stop with the financial monitoring however what other choice do we have? It’s Sandy Alderson himself who has been saying how moves had to be made based on the business realities of baseball and the specific economic issues that have been hampering the Mets for two years now. He has also spoke about how this is going to affect the way the team operates down the road, however, he has of course not been upfront about the severe long-term consequences that will still hamper the Mets long after he retires.
And if one believes we only have limited information on the fiscal front from what we could decipher on the internet, I shudder to think how bad the situation really is. The Mets are certainly not acting as if it is getting any better – despite public statements,
BBLB……
“Id rather go into the season with a 21yr old with upside than a 27yr old whom his upside is of a 4th Outfielder/Platoon hitter.”
You couldn’t have said it any better……my sentiments exactly. While I am very patient and understand that the off season is not over, I will say this: starting the 2013 season with the outfield as its currently constituted will be a slap in the face to all fans.
If they don’t add a bonifide MAJOR LEAGUE outfielder with some pop, or trade for a blue chip major league ready prospect who will at the least capture our interest, I will just have to continue my self imposed boycott of going to games.
So you’d rather make the same mistake that was made with Milledge – Gomez – FMart 5 years ago all over again and open 2013 with an outfield of, say, Puello – Den Dekker – Vaughn or, even better Nimmo – Ceciliani – Lupo instead of the tag team of mediocrities we’ ll be running out again in 2013 ?
The Mets reached the 2000 World Series with an outfield of Timo Perez – Darryl Hamilton – Benny Agbayani, backed up Jay Payton and Bubba Trammel which may not be better than Jordany Valdespin -Kirk Nieuwenhuis- Lucas Duda backed up by Collin Cowgill and Mike Baxter.
I am quite confident however, that the 2015 outfield will look a lot differently than today’s outfield.
In 2007, milledge and gomez only got playing time b/c moises alou and shawn green were injured.
In 2008, both players were no longer mets
In 2009, Fernando Martinez got a lil bit of playing time b/c everyone on the roster was injured.
those 3 never played together at the same time.
#NiceTry
No I didn’t mean rushing those kids. I think they should find a match and tap into their highly regarded pitching prospects for an MLB ready OF prospect with a greater hitting upside than Kirk and Jordany. Someone with the future in mind and not just a stop gap. They have to trade from their strengths to add to their weaknesses.
There is a huge difference between the Braves & the Mets.
The Braves are right in the middle of a contention window. Thus, upgrading their team with instant help via free agency & trades makes a lot of sense. The Braves had a 90+ win team in 2012 and should have one again in 2013.
Meanwhile, the Mets – even if the GM has never officially stated it – are in the middle of a rebuilding after 20+ years of quick fix / shortterm thinking here. Whether the rebuilding is solely financially motivated or it´s a combination of finally trying something different after not being very successful with the expensive and still mostly unsuccessful “quick fix” model and the financial distress of the ownership group.
Thus, whatever the Mets have done & should do this winter should be made with 2014 & beyond implications in mind – a lot more than any sort of effect on the 2013. 2013 will mostly be about getting as much young talent established in the majors as possible – once it´s ready, of course. And then being able to target key needs in trades or via free agency.
And while step 1 may have been salvaging the grip on the franchise for the Wilpons, obviously, the common goal for both Alderson & Co. and the Wilpons – as much as we may despise the latter ones – has to be putting a winner into place. Because odds are, that you get to make a lot more money with the Mets franchise if you field an annual championship contender than a perennial 75-win team. And with the rest of their business enteties apparently struggling too, turning the Mets into a profitable entety is their best bet for making huge profits going forward.
And yes, patience is a key virtue in all of this.
Just to show where this is headed, let´s take a look at the development of the Mets´ farm system over the past six years.
Using the pretty extensive lists posted by John Sickels every year, let´s start with the pre-2007 Mets prospect list:
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2006/12/20/18225/630
What you see is a very top heavy system. F-Mart & Pelfrey were considered top prospects back then. One career was derailed by injuries. Pelfrey merely became solid. 4 of the top 7 were eventually traded for Johan Santana – with only Carlos Gomez having a pretty solid career and Phil Humber barely hanging on as a back-end rotation type SP. A key aspect is the low number of only 13 prospects getting a C+ or better grade. A thin system in terms of depth. Plus 6 (Santana deal + Smith & Carp in Putz deal) of these 13 getting traded. And we´re still feeling the effects of that thin system today. Because most of these guys should have been established major leaguers about 3 years after appearing on this list and then another 3 years later should have reached their prime. Basically what´s left are Jon Niese and Bobby Parnell – two pitchers who actually are in their prime and should remain productive going forward. Yet, way too little overall to field a strong team. And what´s even more depressing, no young talent graduated to the majors in 2006 to be ineligible for that list. So, basically this was all the young talent in the organization – save for Reyes & Wright who were still in their mid 20s back then and if you want to be generous, Oliver Perez & John Maine who had been acquired in trades.
Jumping ahead three years, prior to 2010, this is how the system looked:
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/1/8/1240420/new-york-mets-top-20-prospects-for
Again, only 13 prospects getting a C+ or better grade – which is well below average. Niese – Davis – Tejada have been the three bright spots. Nieuwenhuis, Gee, Duda & Thole have been somewhat useful while some prospects like Flores, Mejia or Familia still show promise, yet haven´t established themselves yet. Considering that only Bobby Parnell and Daniel Murphy were the only two useful major leaguers to graduate from this list in 2009, the young talent base in the organization back then remained quite shallow – or at least very far away.
Now, look at the most recent Sickels Top 20 as we enter 2013:
Suddenly, there are 25 prospects with a C+ rating or better, i.e. almost twice as many as in 2010 or in 2007. And on top of it, Matt Harvey, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, Jordany Valdespin and Josh Edgin lost eligibility in 2012 and thus weren´t eligible for this list anymore. And before the stupid “Omar vs. Sandy” debate restarts, 10 of the 25 C+ or better prospects were procured during the Minaya era, so as Sandy stated, the system was far from “barren” when he took over. However, it takes time for the talent to graduate. And the attrition rate will always be significant. However, the more talent you have, the higher your odds of getting some impact players in the majors. And if you give the young talent more time to develop properly in the minors – which wasn´t always the case under the previous adminstration – odds are, it´ll be better prepared and more successful in the majors.
So, all in all, showing some patience, odds are that the Mets will have a much much broader talent base in a couple of years than they´ve had in recent years – and an almost clean financial slate to go with it.
DrDooby……
Excellent post!!! You are quickly becoming the voice of reason here at MMO and delineate each and every one of your points so well.
Agree.
Well thought out, coupled with facts and not so much the emotional aspect which some tend to base their opinions on.
Good post and I agree with most. However, regarding the “stupid Omar vs. Sandy” debate you are omitting one not so small debate.
The two GMs were given completely different agendas and completely different payrolls. Omar was given a payroll of $150 million and a directive to win now to fill a new stadium. Alderson has been given a shrinking payroll that is under $100 million with a directive to get rid of high priced vets that have not gotten the team to the promised land. Omar had 5 years to implement his plan while Alderson has only had two.
Both need to be judged not just on the raw results but on the results against their assignments and the resources they were given to produce. Omar made some strides but he ultimately didn’t get accomplish his assignment. The book has yet to be written on Alderson’s tenure.
In 2004, Omar was given a WIN-NOW objective with a 95 mil payroll…he also had to rebuild the farm AND WIN-NOW
stop pretending as if Omar had some unlimited payroll, Wilpon told the media in 2004, that the only way the mets get Delgado is if they move Cameron or Floyd, that would’ve pushed payroll to an enormous…110 mil…
all that haggling just opened the door for Balt-Tex-Fl to jump in
So your contention is that 2004 dollars are the same as 2012 dollars? That would be stupid.
Contracts have done nothing but escalate over the last 8 years. A $100 million payroll in 2004, which is what Omar had, would be the equivalent of substantially more in 2012 dollars. The Mets had the 4th highest payroll in baseball in 2004 and highest in the National League and they are projected to have the 14th or lower in baseball in 2012. That is an enormous drop of and its absurd to hold Alderson to the same standard in his 3rd year of consistently dropping payroll with Omar’s 5 years of consistently rising payroll to one of the highest in the game. It also makes no sense to hold them to the same standard when that isn’t the mission they were given.
As for win now, Omar did not. It doesn’t matter if you win the National League East. What matter is winning the last game. Something Omar did not accomplish.
Did the farm system get better? Sure. Some. It could hardly have gotten worse. It was one of the worst in all of baseball.
” Omar was given a payroll of $150 million and a directive to win now to fill a new stadium.”
Your contention that a 94 million dollar payroll ( what Omar had in 2006 ) is the same as a 150 mil payroll is mathematically incorrect and a lie.
Try Again
LMAO
so exactly how did playing Lucas Duda in RF when LF was available for most of the year play into the 2013 and beyond model ???
also trading David Wright vs resigning David Wright…
I think trading him would’ve resulted in more prospects that may have helped us in 2014 and beyond…
why resign him to a team thats rebuilding ?
Keeping Wright was a very logical and easy decision:
1. Look at upcoming free agent markets. Wright is better than any available free agent next winter or the year after.
2. Organizational strength. The Mets have as much highly promising young pitching up & down all levels as any other organization in Baseball. Thus trading Dickey made sense, considering the plethora of in-house options over the next couple of years. Meanwhile, there isn’t a high upside bat likely to reach the majors over the next two seasons other than recently acquired Travis D’Arnaud and maybe Wilmer Flores. So unlike Dickey, trading Wright would have meant that all hopes rest on the shoulders of a single prospect, Wilmer Flores.
3. Odds of performing. If you’re handing out a “2nd generation contract” you want to do it for a corner position player, especially one who is a pretty good athlete. Those usually perform at their career levels well into their mid 30s – unlike middle infielders for example who usually start declining a couple of years earlier. And the way the deal is structured, Wright will receive a lot less annually over the last couple of seasons of the deal, i.e. in 2019 and 2020 when he’ll be 36 and 37 respectively. So unlike some of backloaded contracts of recent years, this deal shouldn’t be any sort of problem when Wright is making a mere 10 million $ in the final season of his deal.
4. Emotions. While reasons 1 through 3 are easily valid enough to justify the deal ( and the number of absurd deals to lesser players in recent weeks even more so), Wright is a homegrown star and will be the first Mets star of all time to play for only the Mets in his entire career. Unlike Seaver, Strawberry, Gooden and Reyes unfortunately.
Keeping Wright was a very logical and easy decision:
>>>1. Look at upcoming free agent markets. Wright is better than any available free agent next winter or the year after.
Unless you are strictly talking 3B, You have to be kidding me right?
You do know that Robinson Cano is going to be a free-agent next year….
>>>2. Organizational strength. The Mets have as much highly promising young pitching up & down all levels as any other organization in Baseball. Thus trading Dickey made sense, considering the plethora of in-house options over the next couple of years. Meanwhile, there isn’t a high upside bat likely to reach the majors over the next two seasons other than recently acquired Travis D’Arnaud and maybe Wilmer Flores.
So unlike Dickey, trading Wright would have meant that all hopes rest on the shoulders of a single prospect, Wilmer Flores.
Umm Flores + that other guy that plays 2B, its rumored he is actually a THIRD BASEMEN playing out of position.
And considering that we could’ve gotten a boatload of prospects for Wright, who then we can use to plug up holes in our outfield OR trade for a more solid player, saying that all hopes rest on the shoulders of a single prospect is absolute BS
>>>>>3. Odds of performing. If you’re handing out a “2nd generation contract” you want to do it for a corner position player, especially one who is a pretty good athlete.
Right…like we did with Mike Piazza…he played a corne…no wait…he didnt…and Carlos Beltran he played Center…wait thats not a corner position…
maybe your whole theory is absolute BS ?
maybe?
>>>4. Emotions = The Dimple Theory !!
1. No way the Yanks let Cano get away.
2. You want to trade Wright away and then shift Murph to 3B, so he can have 4 new positions in as many years under his belt? All the while with no 2B to fill in for Murph? It would be Flores or bust for 3B. And that assumes Flores can make the jump up to the Majors and assumes he can be anything more than a butcher at 3B. Would be easier to trade Wright if Flores was an actual 3B, rather than a hitter who happens to stand at 3B for 1/2 the game…
3. Reasoning for a corner position is that they are generally not predicated on one’s legs (speed in CF, just basic health and stamina for C, range for 2B/SS), so the odds of a 2nd generation contract getting near to living up to the contract makes more sense for a 1B/3B/LF/RF.
4. Love them Dimples.
1 – Thats far from the point, and the fact that they havent resigned him yet means they will allow him to test the market first.
2 – Moving Wright for a package that nets us something we can then flip to Florida for the disgruntled Mike Stanton would MORE than make up for what we lose in power with Murphy at 3B. Where do Met fans get this impression that Wright is Albert Pujols, he hit 21 HR last year…not 41…if you get 5 more HR out of CF, RF and C, you just made up the difference.
3 – My problem with Wright isnt the money…these idiots can afford Wright, Reyes, Beltran and have change to spare.
4 – Marketing Marketing and more Marketing….I hope Wright has the numbers to make the All-Star game, it would be highly embarrassing if Ike were to be our lone rep in the all-star game.
How is that far from the point? The best FA on the market, who is currently a Yank, will get paid majorly by the Yanks. They are not losing him to anyone.
And I’d love Stanton too, but for a team that will try to field something resembling a team with about $38.78 for a payroll, Stanton is the move valuable commodity in the game to them, sans Trout. This idea of Stanton getting traded is ludacrisp, as Iron Mike would say.
#3 – I can’t agree with this at all. Article after article after article – some much in depth – have chronicled the Mets financial problems since Madoff – especially after the 2010 season. If not for Selig, quite possibly the Wilpons wind up selling this team coming into this past season. They didn’t slash payroll by 50 MIL to play ‘moneyball’. They did it b/c the Mets were broke.
#4 – You’ve already got Ike in the ASG next season? I love Ike as much as any Met fan but we’ve yet to see what he can do when he starts the season healthy, and ends the season relatively healthy. I’m hoping he picks up where he left off last season. But you can’t assume right now Ike as the starting first baseman in the ASG is fact.
JDD….
“+ that other guy that plays 2B, its rumored he is actually a THIRD BASEMEN playing out of position”
Oh yeah…perfect for third base. Just what we would want at the corners with those enormous power numbers he put up over the course of a full season last year. Sorry JDD….Dan Murphy is NOT the way to go when trying to justify trading Wright….especially with the lack of power already on this team.
We lacked power at LF + RF. If you make a trade for someone who makes up the diference in power, hell you can INCLUDE Flores if you bring back a package that you flip to Florida for Stanton.
In terms of power
Stanton >>>>>> Wright
Stanton can hit the ball out of ANY STADIUM. Wright fans will blame the wind, God, Snooki, park dimensions, the guy hitting 38 HR in back of him, Omar Minaya, peer pressure and 2nd hand smoke on Wright’s dwindling power numbers.
“Keeping Wright was a very logical and easy decision:
1. Look at upcoming free agent markets. Wright is better than any available free agent next winter or the year after.”
This is actually the reason why a rebuilding team trades Wright. If you can make this argument that he should’ve been kept because of his value compared to the incoming free agent class and his place among current MLB 3B…then you can surely see the other side of the coin. It is arguably just as logical and easy to see that Wright would’ve had a trade market and he would’ve yielded a nice crop of prospects. Which adds to your rebuilding system AND frees up future monies. Wright was younger, had a longer producing track record than Dickey, and plays a premium position. He had a trade market. And a rebuilding team moves him for more assets.
“2. Organizational strength. The Mets have as much highly promising young pitching up & down all levels as any other organization in Baseball.”
Trading a Cy Young pitcher makes sense because he is replaceable?? Not sure we have one guy up and down the roster or organization who’s capable of winning the Cy Young next year. And before anyone goes Dickey had one great year no one saw coming…look at his previous two years and realize that only few in baseball have pitched as well. Also, what’s fundamentally forgotten in your argument is that Wright holds down one position, and the pitching rotation has five spots. This means that yes one guy has to replace Wright…but five guys are needed in the rotation. This is only one of the many reasons for an organization to have more pitching than 3B prospects. Furthermore, moving Wright again would yield more prospects, it would open up a spot for Flores (who just had a better age 20 seasons and at a higher level than Wright), and it would free up future monies that hopefully our billionaire scam artist owners would actually invest in the team. Murphy and or Lutz/Satin or a free agent signing could more than hold down 3B until Flores is ready. Again, this isn’t to say Flores is or will be better than Wright. But it is to say that rebuilding teams don’t give out second-generation contracts, and certainly not cash-strapped rebuilding teams. Speaking of second-generation contracts…
“3. Odds of performing. If you’re handing out a “2nd generation contract” you want to do it for a corner position player, especially one who is a pretty good athlete.”
All the reasons you listed for trading Wright and hoping he holds up during this second-generation contract is the same that can be used for trading him, bringing in more close to MLB-ready young talent, and freeing up that money. Again, lost in the trading Wright is that he had a market that would’ve yielded a good package, the future monies could be invested into the team now and for the future, and you are actually rebuilding not just remodeling and hoping for the best. Why do I say we are remodeling?? Because I detect the same pattern, go half-way and hope for the best. Instead of moving your two second-generation guys (Dickey but also Wright) to flourish the system with more young talent.
“4. Emotions. While reasons 1 through 3 are easily valid enough to justify the deal ( and the number of absurd deals to lesser players in recent weeks even more so), Wright is a homegrown star and will be the first Mets star of all time to play for only the Mets in his entire career. Unlike Seaver, Strawberry, Gooden and Reyes unfortunately.”
Homegrown star means a lot, but it doesn’t mean as much as winning team. Gary Carter is not beloved because he was homegrown. Neither is Keith Hernandez. The point is fans will come when you start to win. Winning is what makes you beloved. We can respect consistency, appreciate longevity, and ever adore being “homegrown”. But being beloved comes by winning. Wright is a great player and I’m glad he’s on the Mets. But moving him represented a chance for the team to actually rebuild and get better in the future. If the Mets had moved Wright along with Dickey, and actually invested into then team…they would’ve been committing to about $40MM to spend in payroll this year. Without Wright, there is $47MM in payroll, add in another $7.2MM for Murphy, Parnell, and Ike and you’re at $55.2MM. So even if you commit to a mid-market payroll of $100MM you still have over $40MM in payroll space to make additions.
I get that money of our owners is what we are to care more about than our actual team being good. I just refuse to put their interests above ours as fans. Especially, when there’s money there to be reinvested into the team. Even with Wright, the Mets should have over $30MM in payroll space to get back to our mid-market $100MM payroll. But we are to ignore that while they attempt to insult our intelligence and cry poor.
#Boom ====> Flores (who just had a better age 20 seasons and at a higher level than Wright)
After the Braves run of division titles ended they started to rebuild and handed Chipper a 6 year deal. You don’t have to completely clean house when you rebuild. You can do it while retaining your best player.
Fonz,
Yes you don’t have to. But it sure could help. If Wright was made available, the soon to be MLB prospects he would bring back, would help the Mets for 2014 and beyond. And it would’ve freed up money to bring in 2013 talent. Yes you lose Wright, but you could’ve added two OFers which in turn could give more development time to Kirk or ‘Spin. Or you could’ve added an OF and a capable SP. Or you could’ve restocked your bullpen. The point is simply, if you’re not winning in 2013 anyway, why hold on to Wright. You sell high, you keep stocking the system, and when the kids are ready you trade for or sign talent to fill in remaining holes.
P.S. Yes I believe in Flores. And yes I think Wright would’ve brought back a great package of prospects. And yes I would only trade Wright if that freed up money was also being reinvested into the team immediately.
Hey Dooby -
You wrote: “Suddenly, there are 25 prospects with a C+ rating or better, i.e. almost twice as many as in 2010 or in 2007. And on top of it, Matt Harvey, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, Jordany Valdespin and Josh Edgin lost eligibility in 2012 and thus weren´t eligible for this list anymore.”
Well, anytime you gut a team of the majority of major leaguers you will have something to show for it. Great that we have 25 prospects with a C+ rating or better – not so great that we can’t compete on the field this year or next.
What would have been nice would have been a balanced approach – lower the payroll by 20 million instead of 50 mil and keep a competitive team on the field while eventually replacing veterans with propects. The attendance wouldn’t take such a huge hit and they would make a lot of the money back.
Instead, they gutted the team – they replaced ballplayers with prospects. Pretty easy thing to do. Keep in mind, the Mets needed a stud catcher (they also need a bullpen and an outfield to name of few) so they traded their best pitcher for an oft injured catcher who has never played in the ML. Time will tell on that one. Time will tell on all these moves. But keep in mind – Beltran (32 homers 97 rbi’s) and Dickey (20 wins) along with letting Reyes go – we were left with not a lot to replace that production NOW. These were real good major leaguers who are replaced by prospect who MAY be good.
It’s all about Madoff…It’s all about money…It’s all about Wilpon wanting to hold on to the team…it’s not about the fans
tlagee-
Here’s something that might make you feel a little better.
It’s always about the owners. On every team, in every sport. Period, end of story.
Nobody spends 10′s or now 100′s of millions of dollars with the thought in mind “Gee, I hope I can make the fans happy”. No, they do it for themselves. For financial gain, for ego boost, for a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with making you or any other fan happy.
You and I are a commodity. We don’t get birthday cards from the owners, They don’t come to our weddings or funerals. Unless you happen to be extremely well connected owners don’t know who the hell you are and frankly, don’t care.
Most of them are concerned with putting together a winning product that will enrich them both financially and ego wise. The hope, although by no means is it guaranteed, is that by putting together a winning product they will attract fans and more importantly, their money.
But baseball is not football. There is no spending cap in baseball. Teams are free to spend whatever they like provided they can afford it. It’s true, none of us know all the details of the Wilpon’s finances but it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to know they have been dealing with some serious financial issues from dwindling baseball revenues coupled with bad contracts on players who did not perform and personal investments.
And yes, they have been trying to hang on to the team despite these problems. Wouldn’t you? Or would you say “I know fan Boomer would be happier if I sold the team to an owner who had a boat load of cash and could spend like the wind so therefore I’m out”. Yea, that happens all the time in sports.
You say that the Wilpons should have only cut the payroll by half of what they did and not “gutted” the team. Yet they had to take on 12 new minority partners and get an emergency loan of $25 million from MLB just to pay their bills. What makes you think they could have kept a higher payroll when they were circling the bowl financially? Furthermore, how were they going to do it? In 2010 the payroll was $126. In Alderson’s first year in 2011 it shot up to $142 thanks largely to guaranteed contracts of a few big players like Santana, Bay, Beltran, Wright and Reyes. In fact, 8 players made up $116 million of that $140 including other luminaries such as Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo.
How would you have suggested Alderson get the payroll down to a sustainable level without getting rid of some of the big contracts? The team still had to put 25 players in the dugout and at least try to attract some fan interest. Getting rid of Perez and Castillo was easy but only put a minor dent in the problem and they still had to pay Perez $12 million to NOT play in 2011.
Bottom line, some players had to go and the only ones who mattered were the ones with significant contracts and that didn’t mean trading them for major league players with equal or even marginally smaller contracts, it meant prospects at best. Nothing else was affordable.
I honestly don’t know why this is so hard to understand for some people. All teams have budgets. They Mets used to have one of the highest in baseball and they didn’t get a ring. Circumstances have now forced them to cut back to the middle of the pack, at least temporarily.
There’s no guarantee that this new program will work. But there is no guarantee that spending a huge amount of money will work either. Didn’t work for the Mets, didn’t work the Marlins last year, or the Yankees or the Red Sox or teams year in and year out.
Given all of the circumstances that put the Mets in the situation they are today, I don’t see how anyone could have done a much better job with where we headed.
Hey Boomer!
That’s suppose to make me feel better?
You Wrote: “none of us know all the details of the Wilpon’s finances but it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to know they have been dealing with some serious financial issues from dwindling baseball revenues coupled with bad contracts on players who did not perform and personal investments.”
You put personal investments last – and it truely is the number one reason the Fred is in the mess he’s in. All his funds, not just with the Mets, were tied into Madoff. So while I agree that owners are in it to make money – Fred’s currently not in it to make money but to stop the bleeding long enough to continue ownership. The New York Times had Fred’s financial details for everyone to see – and because of Madoff, Fred ran out of money.
The point isn’t that the Mets couldn’t maintain a $150 million budget – Fred couldn’t maintain a budget that high because of what he lost with Madoff. Why did they pick 100 million for the number one baseball market in the world? Why didn’t they stop at $130 million? Because that’s all Fred could afford BECAUSE OF MADOFF.
Sure there were bad free agent signings and Omar did have a penchant for throwing good money after bad to fix some of the problems. But there were plenty of times that, with wise moves, the Mets could have continued to compete.
Then came the Madoff scandle and that changed everything. Sandy was sent in by Bud to fix Wilpon’s finances – not to help the team – or build a team for the future.
The Mets will continue to lose money but Fred will stay afloat.
Bottom line – not re-signing Reyes after the 2010 season set the tone for everything that followed. You don’t let home grown talent like that walk away and then tell everyone that you are building for the future.
tlagee-
The Madoff ponzi scheme took down a lot more people than just the Wilpons. And you can’t overlook the fact that for years a lot of that money from the Madoff investment went into the team. Ying and yang.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. No, I didn’t put it second out of importance, was just making a two part list. But it is also disingenuous to not admit that the free spending on big FA contracts that did not work out did not contribute to the situation the team is in. They did. And it is that same path that some people here keep insisting that the Mets follow.
Many teams have tried that route and only a handful of been successful. Look at the Yankees last year. The Phillies. The Angels. All with payrolls in excess of $150 million, some way in excess. But it was the Giants with a payroll of $117 million that won the crown. Spending huge amounts of money guarantees nothing but spending huge amounts of money.
I would have like to keep Reyes, but he’s gone. In 2011 the Mets finished with 77 wins. In 2012 the Mets finished with 74 wins. Both times in 4th place.
We can argue forever whether the Mets are in a better position going forward now after getting rid of a bunch of contracts they couldn’t afford and players who weren’t producing at the rates they were being paid to produce. Take a look at what Reyes produced last year for $10 million and what Tejada produced for a fraction as just one example. But we will only know in a couple years after this all plays out.
Boomer -
You wrote:
…it is also disingenuous to not admit that the free spending on big FA contracts that did not work out did not contribute to the situation…
Well, I don’t know about that. The Mets spent a lot of money under Omar’s term. In 2007 they were 2nd in attendance in the National League with a whopping 3,853,000 people coming to watch the team with its expensive FA signings. In 2008, the last year at Shea they were even better with 4,042,000 people averaging almost 50 thousand a game (49,900) A GAME! Do you think that either of those years contributed to the situation that the team finds itself now? By the way, their payroll that year was $137 million.
Their payroll last year was $91 million and their attendance dropped to an average of 27,500 per game almost 50% drop in daily attendance. Yes, Citi Field is more expensive with less seats but they pulled in almost 3.2 million their first year while their payroll was at its height (almost 152 million).
So, when did the Mets realize that the team was too expensive to run and they started to feel the financial crunch? Was it in 2006, 2007, 2008? No it was after the 2008 season when Bernie Madoff was exposed – December 2008 to be exact. And it was after the 2009 season when the trustee was going after the Wilpons for 1 billion dollars. The club was the least concern.
Before Madoff the Mets were making money – really good money – with the FA signings. Millions of people were coming to see the club.
The last three years they have stopped putting money into the club because of the Madoff scandal and the team was gutted. Attendance is down almost 50% in four short years – the team is losing money and people want to blame the free agent signings.
As I said before, there were some bad signings and some player were injured and not replaced. Certain needs of the club were neglected. Was Omar a good GM? I don’t know – he certainly turned around a tired ball club in the first few years he was there. But he never seemed to take care of the little things the Mets needed – but that’s a different topic. Certainly his penchant for going after big names did not hurt the club financially as their attendance records show.
Source: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/attend.shtml
tlagee-
Gosh. I guess you’re right. The Mets were idiots to get rid of Omar. Surely the team that hired him as General Manager after he was fired by the Mets has won the World Series the last 2 years, yes?
Come on. Stop.
Omar had a pretty much unlimited budget, one of the biggest in baseball, for 5 years. He didn’t it done. And he left a major league team with a bloated budget and a minor league system that was middle of the road.
Nobody is denying that the Madoff scandal tipped the balance but if Omar was such a stud why was ignored by everyone but San Diego who is no danger of winning anything?
The team that did hire him hired him to clean up the last mess Sandy left someone with!
Like we been trying to tell you here….
Once Sandy does what he does it takes DECADES to clean up the DESTRUCTION he leaves in his wake!
Hush. Adults are speaking.
Thats funny because all I hear coming from you is this childhood fairy tale about competing for no money and sugar canes dancing in your head!
Boomer -
great discussion yesterday. That was fun. Thank you.
That’s what i enjoy about this site – two die hard Mets fans with different opinons able to articulate their views without being called idiots.
I understand where you’re coming from. While I see things a bit differently I don’t see our arguments as being that far apart.
Hi Boomer,
This has little to do with Omar. I believe focusing the conversation to that of Omar – regardless of agreeing with him or not – diverts us from discussing the issue at hand.
The Mets are a business in deep trouble and I suggest more people take the fiscal situation more seriously.
The Mets were a big money making club and that didn’t change because of any payroll situation. It changed because the Wilpons had invested a great deal of capital with Bernie Madoff and not only did they lose a half billion dollars, they also lost something in the neighborhood of $80 million in annual returns since it has been documented that 16 percent was the average annual return rate that Madoff supposedly made for his clients. And due to the success Sterling Equities was getting via Madoff, the Mets were not considered a financial risk and Sterling Equities was able to acquire the financing to buy out the Doubledays, create SNY and get its portion needed to build a new ballpark.
Since that time this was a team that twice was on the verge of bankruptcy, had to use SNY to buy most of it’s minority shares for few were interested (even hedge funder manager David Einhorn withdrew his offer), could not get its loan’s refinanced because the franchise was deemed a financial risk and was not sued further by Picard because in a sworn affidavit he cited that the Mets had no more money to get. The attached, though written before the refinancing was agreed upon, is still to the point.
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/08/6460446/how-will-mets-owners-fare-without-help-league
That is why re-building is only a camouflage to hide the capital restructuring as tlagee suggested. All the smoke screens in the world can’t change that fact. . They either sell or continue operating in the manner of a small market team which will not allow them to field a competitive team on a sustainable basis. This is the reality of the business situation they are in. It’s their financial life that is at stake. One can ignore this if they please but it is something the Wilpons cant.
“They either sell or continue operating in the manner of a small market team which will not allow them to field a competitive team on a sustainable basis”
This is what makes the David Wright signing even more mind-boggling.
Trading him would’ve saved money in the long run….gotten prospects to fill holes in the long run, and probably helped save their franchise…
as met fans tune them out…and they go through another year of mediocre results…its only going to get uglier…
I think ( or hope ) the mets are just prepping to sell and the 2013 ASG might be their swan song ( praying )
The signing of David Wright is completely contrary to the entire picture that Joey paints, day in and day out. He constantly paints a business doomsday scenario. If his scenario was correct, Wright never would have been signed, bottom line.
I hate to break it to you but signing Wright is also contrary to what you think this PLAN is Sandy has been using and you say you like.
Hi Watchman,
As others also point out, the signing of David (in my opinion the right thing to do – but that is another story) was to avoid the further fiscal nightmare that trading him would have created. They could not use rebuilding and long-term planning as an excuse as they did with R.A., citing him being 38 and throwing that hard knuckler.
Also note that doomsday scenario is not something I concocted – it exists. What led to the Mets fiscal situation and what it forces them to deal with now and in the future has to be taken more seriously and cannot be ignored for it has and will continue to make a profound impact on how the team operates.
You can say that I don’t have a thorough understanding of the situation which is right – but what does that have to say about Crains, Business Week, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, etc.? What does it mean when financial institutions find the New York Mets too much of a risk as to re-finance their loans? What does it mean when they could only find a handful of investors to buy minority shares? How about David Einhorn withdrawing his offer? And what about having to pay debts they’ve put off until 2016? And their projected payroll in 2016 climbing to just a few million dollars less than it is 2013?
Have an idea. I’ve explained how I’ve come to my conclusions based on the above. Using that same financial information please provide a counterpoint to the contrary. But deal with the finances as they have been reported to support your different conclusion – and analogies based on business practices, not baseball.
Ciao
believe it or not – they HAD to sign Wright. With close to half their attendance gone since they left Shea they couldn’t walk away from him. That was simply a PR move and they structured the contract so as not to hurt them much financially.
Wright being white didn’t hurt their fan base.
It would have been a disaster if he had walked.
Signing Wright allows them to continue to penny pinch in all other areas. And Wright is the only real star they have.
Notice that since they signed Wright they traded their 20 game winner and still have problems in a number of areas especially the bullpen and outfield. By signing wright they are able to distract the fan base by not doing a hell of a lot more for the team.
I don’t believe tht signing wright contradicts anyone’s argument that they are gutting the team.
The wright signing was simple a PR ball that was kicked down the road – for 2013 he is making exactly what he would have made if they hadn’t signed him.
Star???
And you know there is nothing to stop them from trading Wright at the deadline or in the next year if they thought they could get a good package out of it….
Especially if Attendance drops enough from losing Dickey to say Why Not we have no fans that come to the stadium to really worry about losing anyone….
Looks like Sandy A has decided to start the season without an outfield……and also, without fans in the seats. That would be trail blazing!
We have this though –> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIEwIwYz-c
Marco, I would like to see what kirk and valdespin can do given a full year before I sign a retread to block them wouldnt you?
Nice debate – nice job pulling those sickels reports, doobie. Did anybody notice on the 2010 list he said if the mets were to rush mejia they would be asking for trouble? I guess Omar didnt read that one.
Also, Damaja makes doobies point very well. Piazza was a shell of his former self the 2nd half of his contract.
Omar on record with Bob Klapish was against moving Mejia up in 2010, Jerry went straight over his head. Cant control your boss
jdd, since you are so good at finding links, I bet you can find this one.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/manuel_gushing_righty_hasn_allowed_LBt8zUMThPJCOZdiRFm3vK
Manuel gushing; Mets’ Mejia hasn’t allowed run yet
“[Mejia] wears No. 76 and Frankie is No. 75, if you know what I mean,” Manuel said, referring to the uniform numbers worn by Mejia and closer Francisco Rodriguez. “They might follow each other out there. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.”
- Jerry Manuel
But Minaya made it known before yesterday’s game that the plan is for Mejia to begin the season as a starter for Double-A Binghamton.
Thats not the article with the quote, just one article among a few that showed Omar wanted Mejia to start the season in AAA
I meant AA
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/jerry-manuel-stop-teasing-new-york-met-fans-prospect-jenrry-mejia-article-1.197673
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2010/03/the_ny_mets_plan_for_pitching.html
Obviously, free agents are expensive and usually go south with their new team and require a multi-year contract for that player to sign on the dotted line, something Sandy seems against doing especially when he and his think tank aren’t that enamored with the player in the first place as with Hairston and Liriano. Here, I really can’t fault Sandy. I think the real plan all along was to try to swing a couple of trades for both a high level near ML ready catching and OF prospect the Mets can move forward it along with another OFer already in the bigs that might surprise given more playing time instead of bring back a stopgap player like Hairston. And I think Paul DePo and JPR are still working the phones trying to swing that trade for a legit OF prospect. Remember- Paul Depo had said other teams asked about 10 Mets pitching prospects in trade talks with the Mets and obviously not all of these guys are named Zack Wheeler. However, prospect for prospect trades aren’t common and the real problem here is that Sandy doesn’t have a major league piece to combine with a prospect to facilitate a trade unless he starts talking Niese or Parnell.
I have to ask….
Is saving the one maybe two million they expect to save on Hairston really worth the risk they take in losing him and having to sign someone who isn’t even as good as him?
This is a classic case of what I call Penny Wise and Pound Foolish…
Maybe if they didn’t wait so long they could have spent an extra 5 Mil to get something BETTER than just Hairston to get some improvement or at worst just gave hairston the money he asked for and then looked to get the guy they will get should Hairston sign elsewhere….
I mean really how is the 1-2 mil they think they are going to save by waiting really going to help them out?
Do you even know what Walden did last year, or is it an upgrade getting Upton when you lose Bourne. We are not going to even mention G Laird, Please. Why sign someone to a multiy year contract when they suck. Waiting IS the right move
Right Move?
What about waiting to sign the remaining available SCRUBS is better than just picking the scrub you like the best and signing him?
In the end the results is the same…
You got a guy that sucks and all that money you saved is not enough to get anoyone but someone else who sucks just as badly as he does to go with him!
If you really wanted to make the right move and rebuild from within you would not wait to spend money on all the SUCKY players, You would spend what money you have on Better players that do not suck, Play the kids you have because at worst they can’t possibly suck WORSE than what you would have signed and at best could be the next ANSWER to a problem that will not require signing a scrub to play next year!
Alex -
Yeah David Wright is a star. He has made the all-star team six times which officially makes him a star in the eyes of the baseball world.