12
2012
Infuriating Alderson Dumps On Mets Fans
An article by 
The words seared into my consciousness.
I previously defended Sandy Alderson, thinking as a hired gun his job was to pare payroll and ease the Mets’ financial strain, which he did.
However, there is no defending what he said yesterday at the Mets’ Annual Christmas party, one where they asked R.A. Dickey to dress as an elf.
I usually applaud honesty, but this time it would have been better had Alderson kept his mouth shut. If you’re surrendering the season before Christmas, don’t come out and say it, not with good will in the air.
“I would expect the roster would look similar to what it did at the end of last season – with some exceptions,” Alderson said.
Ouch … that hurt, but deep down we expected that to be the case all along.
Yeah, and those exceptions will put the Mets over the top. Yeah, and I still believe Santa Claus and the M & M talking candies do exist.
Alderson doesn’t think much of the FA market and the Mets have precious little to trade. If he thinks that cupboard is bare, what does he think he has on his roster?
Even less.
Gone from last year’s train wreck will be Tim Byrdak, who is recovering from shoulder surgery, along with Jon Rauch, Mike Pelfrey, Ramon Ramirez, Kelly Shoppach, Andres Torres and Manny Acosta. Some could be missed, but all their roles still need to be filled.
You might also say good-bye to Scott Hairston, whom the Mets say they’d like to retain, and, of course, the big one in R.A. Dickey.
Dickey will enter the FA market if there’s no extension and the Mets are playing hardball over roughly $6 million over the life of the contract. This, despite David Wright deferring $8 million of his 2013 salary; Jason Bay also deferring money in his buyout; and CEO Jeff Wilpon saying there would be more money available.
“It’s hard to speculate,” Alderson continued. “When you think about it, the trade market, signing free agents and so forth, it’s relatively young in the season. It’s hard, really, to accurately predict where things will end up.”
Wrong. It is easy to predict where things will end up. Watching the Mets is like watching Gilligan’s Islands reruns. It always insults your intelligence and you know Gilligan will screw it up in the end. Substitute Alderson, the Wilpons and Omar Minaya for Gilligan and you know the rest.
The Mets won’t do anything this winter and regardless of what kind of start they have won’t add anything of substance at the trade deadline. In the end we’ll have another dismal, losing season in front of sparse crowds at Citi Field. And, of course, more hollow talk.
Enjoy those Shake Shack burgers and microbrews.
Alderson said he won’t spend money now just because he has it, but might wait until January. What makes him think the market will get better then? Markets only get leaner.
There will be an influx of free agents at the end of spring training when teams decide their rosters, but those are only rejects. The Mets have enough of those.
Who knows? Maybe the Mariners will cut Bay and the Mets will make a play for him.
Alderson said, “the important thing is we have the flexibility to make a baseball decision rather than be constrained by sort of an artificial financial limitation.’’
Wrong again. The important thing is to improve the bullpen – actually, create one – and get an outfield. What the Mets have in those areas wouldn’t meet the traveling squad limitations for exhibition games.
Alderson spoke of the importance of adding a veteran presence, but then again, there sits Dickey in his little elf outfit. How humiliating for him. It is clear the Mets don’t want to pay Dickey what he’s worth despite making him out to be Jim Palmer in the trade market.
I recognize Dickey’s limitations in age and only had one great year, but damn, pay him for that year.
What he brings to the clubhouse and meant last year to the team and city was special. His story is unique and the shrinking Mets’ fan base relates to him.
If nothing else, pay him for his willingness to pitch with a torn muscle nearly the entire season. Pay him for giving us a reason to watch the Mets.
It is clear the Mets want to use him for a half year at a bargain price and try to swing a deal at the deadline. It is clear the Mets are being cheap and not seeing the big picture.
It is clear for all the talk about changing the Mets’ losing culture nothing has changed.
And, don’t you wonder what Wright is thinking today about his deal and all those promises the Mets made him?
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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“I would expect the roster would look similar to what it did at the end of last season – with some exceptions,” Alderson said.
This really has you that exorcised?
Of course it is going to look similar.
1B no doubt
2B not really in doubt
SS no doubt
3B evidently never in doubt
LF most likely not in doubt (not my choice for sure)
SP 1 in doubt
SP 2 not
SP 3 not
SP 4 not
SP 5 not
BP in flux as usual but lots of the guys who were on the team at the close of the season are certainly candidates.
So let me get this straight, if the Mets change CF, RF and C to some degree won’t the roster still look very similar to last year? Getting away from the Wright comments, what else did we expect to change?
there will be at least 9/25 (36%) new faces most likely. Maybe one less if they return 4 BP guys instead of 3.
but once they re-signed Wright, and assuming Dickey comes back, they any chance of major structural change to the “real” players went out the window.
unless you want Ike or Neise traded, everything else is at the margins.
yes but other than Wright , harvey and Niese should we feel good about the players with no doubts. Is tejada an everyday p[ayer ???/has he even played a 100 games w/o tiring? Has Ike ever put a full season together. When you’re no doubters are that suspect, you need to improve the other positions dramatically. And who are the numbr 2 and 5 starters???? Santana and Gee? Should they really be no doubters at this point. The Wilpons are pocketing the extra dough…why is that news to anybody. Alderson is just the mouthpiece.
“yes but other than Wright , harvey and Niese should we feel good about the players with no doubts. Is tejada an everyday p[ayer”
Should we feel furious?
Im assuming the part regarding the Outfield,Catcher and the Bullpen are the kicks in the Nutz…..The main problems last year was those 3 spots predominately the bullpen blowing games and lack of production from the Outfield as a whole….
Catchers sucked but that is the least of the Mets issues…few teams have decent backstops…Mets should target catchers like Dodgers Tim Federowicz if available
FYI Mets have been said to be interested in Miguel Olivo…well if you hate Thole and his passed balls then youre not gonna love Olivo whom has led the league in Pass balls in a season 3 times in his career
CONSIDERING ALDERSON WAS MORE THAN LIKELY COUNTING ON HARVESTING A BIG RETURN BY FAILING TO LOCKUP BOTH DICKEY & WRIGHT MAKING ONE AS TRADE BAIT. ENVISIONING THE ABILITY TO MAKE CONSIDERABLE LINEUP CHANGES TO NEARLY 33% OF WHAT FINISHED THE SEASON, ALDERSON’S PRESUMPTIONS PRIOR TO THE REALITY OF THE WINTER MEETINGS’ SUCCESS WITH WRIGHT; FAILURE WITH DICKEY ONLY LOGICALY ALTERS THE TENOR OF HIS EXPECTATIONS TO THE LIKELY REALITY OF RETAINING ONE(HAIRSTON) & POSSIBLY RETURNING ONE(CHAVEZ) OUTFIELD OPTION AS OUR MOST PROBABLE ACCOMPLISHMENT THIS OFFSEASON.
AS THE TALENT GAP BETWEEN THE TOP 3 NL EAST TEAMS & THE BOTTOM 2 IS TOO MASSIVE TO SPAN IN ONE OFFSEASON, THE MORE LIKELY OPORTUNITY TO MOVE UP IN THE STANDINGS MUST LOGICALLY WAIT FOR THE FINAL PITCHING DEVELOPMENT OF AT LEAST 2 STUD STARTERS( *WHEELER+1) & THE SUBTRACTION OF NEARLY 50% OF THE CURRENT PAYROLL AS BOTH SANTANA(25M) & BAY(16M) FALL OFF THE EXPENDITURE RECORDS EQUATING TO ALLOWING THE CAUTIONARY ADDING OF NEARLY 3 ADDITIONAL EXPERIENCED MLBers ALONG WITH THOSE 2 FULLY DEVELOPED STARTERS OVERHAULING 20% OF THE ACTIVE (25 MAN) ROSTER. AS NEITHER OWNERSHIP NOR FRONTOFFICE FORESEE CONTENTION PRIOR TO 2014 THE WILLINGNESS TO EXTEND FOR 2013 IS NATURALLY WEAK. UNFORTUNATELY THE 2013 SEASON WILL MOST LIKELY BE ANOTHER INVESTMENT YR.
BTW. TO ALL THE A N G R Y PEOPLE OUT THERE A LIE IS DETERMINED @ THE TIME IT IS STATED NOT AFTER THE PASSAGE OFTIME & ALTERING OF CIRCUMSTANCES. ONLY IF THE SPEAKER IS FULLY AWARE OF THE ACTUAL FALSEHOOD OF THE STATEMENT AT THE TIME THEY ARE STATING IT CAN/SHOULD THE TERM L I E BE AFFIXED & RAILED UPON. OTHERWSE IT IS CLASSIFIED SIMPLY AS A MISTAKEN JUDGMENT CALL/PREDICTION
IF THE SPEAKER BELIEVES HIS/HER STATEMENT IS TRUE WHEN SPEAKING IF THEY ARE MISTAKEN DOES THAT MAKE THEM A LIAR? IF SO, HOW MANY READING THIS ARE 100% ACCURATE PROGNOSTICATORS???
‘BTW. TO ALL THE A N G R Y PEOPLE OUT THERE A LIE IS DETERMINED @ THE TIME IT IS STATED NOT AFTER THE PASSAGE OFTIME & ALTERING OF CIRCUMSTANCES. ONLY IF THE SPEAKER IS FULLY AWARE OF THE ACTUAL FALSEHOOD OF THE STATEMENT AT THE TIME THEY ARE STATING IT CAN/SHOULD THE TERM L I E BE AFFIXED & RAILED UPON. OTHERWSE IT IS CLASSIFIED SIMPLY AS A MISTAKEN JUDGMENT CALL/PREDICTION’
This.
Well 62 I agree with what you say is a definition of a Lie….
But what is said around the statement also will indicate lie or belief in what he was saying at the time…
And at the same time he was saying there would be significant change he also said he would really like to keep Wright and Dickey as well.
Since that statement seems to suggest significant CONSISTENCY how can we say his statement on Significant CHANGE involved them at the time?
One he may have truly thought was true at the time but if he did the other HAD to be a lie!
I agree with you however that the CHANGE part was always meant to be trades of Wright and/or Dickey. So if the change part was TRUE in his intentions at the time then the part about keeping and extending Wright and Dickey were the Lie!
I DO believe his intention was to trade Wright or Dickey and he LIED to the fans about keeping them to stop the backlash from happening until he had a deal he could tryto sell to the fans for that loss…
But he didn’t get what he wanted or perhaps what he thought he could sell the move with and as a result he
kept TRUE to his intended LIE and turned what he thought he was being truthfull about into a falsehood.
Better and more honest would have been to say at the time:
We need to make some significant changes and decide if those changes warrant trading one of ourfan favorite performers like Wright and Dickey to get the players we need to accomplish that goal. And if we can’t get enough back for either we will have a hard time making significant changes to the team until next year.
That would address both Wright, Dickey, Change and the conditions where Change was not possible without a single lie being told.
He didn’t he seperated them as two different topics and one of the statements would have been a blatent lie if the plan was to use them to get the change.
But I do agree when he was talking about Change it had more to do with Wright, Dickey and the Minor Leaguers we would get than ANYTHING to do with the MLB roster…
METSIE, AS USUAL U ARE CORRECT & CONTEXT IS CERTAINLY NEARLY AS IMPORTANT AS CONTENT WHEN EVALUATING VERACITY;
HOWEVER, I FIRST NEED TO CLARIFY MY POSITION ON ALDERSON AS A NYM GM.
I’M UNDECIDED;
LET ME RISK APPEARUING AS AN APOLOGIST BY TRYING TO CLARIFY HOW I CAN EVALUATE HIS CONTENT WITHIN THE CONTEXT U PROVIDED. CERTAINLY HE CAN HONESTLY BELIEVE HE WANTS TO KEEP BOTH WRIGHT & DICKEY WHILE AT THE SAME INSTANT BELIEVE IT TO BE UNLIKELY CREATING AN OPORTUNITY TO ACQUIRE VALUABLE ADDITIONS TO THE ROSTER BASED UPON HIS PERSONAL ASSESSMENT OF HIS PLAYERS VALUE ON THETRADE-MARKET.
SURELYTHOSE CONDITIONS IF THEY ACTUALLY EXISTED COULD ERASE ANY LYING CONSIDERATION BECAUSE CERTAINLY A GM IS PRECLUDED FROM STATING WHAT HE BELIEVES IS OBVIOUS TO HIM “I WANT BOTH; BUT I’M UNLIKELY KEEPING BOTH”
First off 62 lets be clear I don’t have a problem with undecided or even those who apologize for Sandy….
Undecided are at least having some doubts, Apologists are really just trying to convince themselves more than anyone else…
It’s when folks hide behind those masks and then crow every day about what a good job he is doing that sets me off because if you think he is doing a good job your not really undecided (why would you be?) and apologizing for a guy means you realize he isn’t REALLY doing a good job so why say so….
You do not fit into either of those categories here!
Onto the topic at hand.
IF Sandy had made a big effort to sign either of them to a contract as his FIRST step then I could believe he wanted to keep them and would only trade them if the price wasn’t right.
But his first move was to look for trades. He got quotes from Wright and Dickey but never really made a concerted effort to negotiate with them until AFTER he found out no one would give him his significant change in a trade.
And unfortunatly in Sandy’s History his first preference is always to TRADE not Negotiate.
Did it with K-Rod – Could have gotten that Option killed and kept his closer
Did it with Beltran – Could have at least tried to see what Beltran would want to extend
Did it with Pagan – didn’t even need to negotiate as he was under control but chose to trade him despite having no option at CF to replace him
Did it with Reyes – Never negotiated at all just let him go for picks.
Every move involving major MLB players has been one where a good player is sold off for multiple scrub bandaids (Beltran the exception).
That might be considered significant change but then again change isn’t always change for the better.
MERTSIE, MY LONGTIME JOUSTING BUDDY, ONCE MORE YOU ARE NAIVELY MISTAKING THE NYM ORGANIZATION FOR A LOGICAL, BUSINESS OPERATION THAT EMOPOWERS UPPER EXECUTIVES TO BE AUTONOMOUS WITHIN REASONABLE PARAMETERS. IT IS MY ESTIMATE THAT PARTICULAR SUPERIOR BUSINESS MODEL HAS NEVER EXISTED IN FLUSHING UNDER WILPON FAMILY MNGT THERE IS A VERY SAD APPEARING ORGANIZATION CHART THAT DECRIES ANY CLAIM FOR LEGITIMACY. ATOP THE METS’ ORG CHART ARE 2 OLD BROTHERS IN LAW, PARTNERS WELL VERSED IN COMMERCIAL REAL STATE THESE 2 PATRIACHS HAVE SIRED 4 ADULT SONS, BOTH MEN HAPPEN TO BELONG TO A RELIGOUS BELIEF THAT ON A SECULAR LEVEL HIGHLY VALUE ADVANCED EDUCATION.
EVALUATING THE EDUCATIONAL ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE 4 ADULT MALE HEIRS WE FIND 1 MBA, 1 BA, 1 BS & 1 ASSOCIATES DEGREE SOMEHOW THIS ONE UNDER-ACHIEVING DISAPPOINTMENT HAS BEEN PLACED ATOP THE OTHER 3 IN NY MET RELATED BUSINESSES AS CEO OF NYM , SNY. WHERE ESE IS THERE A COMMUNITY COLLEGE GRADUATE CONTROLLING MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR ORGANIZATIONS?
HISTORICALLY THE FAMILY’S INTERNAL MET DEALINGS HAVE INCLUDED DISTRUST OF NON FAMILIAL EXECUTIVES AS THE PERRENIAL FAMILY UNDER-ACHIEVER, JEFF WILPON IS VERY TYPICAL FOR “STATURE CHALLENGED” MEN IN POWER, RESORTING TO INTERNAL “SPY NETWORKS” & INORDINATE DEMAND TO PERSONALLY MICROMANAGE CONTROL(SEE GERMANY CIRCA 30s & 40s) OR 18th CENTURY FRANCE.
IN A HIERARCHY SO POORLY CONSTRUCTED WITH TYPICAL GM POWERS WIDELY DISPERSED DELIBERATELY TO REFRACT BLAME AWAY FROM CEO(NYM ORG CHART ONCE REFERRED TO AS “FRATHOUSE” IN NATURE BY HOF WRITER BILL MADDEN IN ’02 DUE TO POWER NEEDING SINGLE DECISION CAPABILITY REQUIRES COMITTE LIKE INTERNAL AGREEMENT..
SURELY IT IS LOGICAL TO CONCEIVE OF THIS OLEGARCHY ALLOWING THE SIGNING OF BOTH PLAYERS, RESTRICTED WITHIN SPEFCIFIC FINANCIAL TERMS FOR EXAMPLE ALDERSON INFORMED HE CAN RESIGN DICKEY;BUT ONLY IF COSTS ARE UNDER A SPECIFIC VERY RESTRICTED PARAMETER..
IT HAS LONG BEEN MY OPINION THAT NELSON DOUBLEDAY’S ASSESSMENT OF JEFF WILPION AS AN INCOMPETANT FOOL OUT OF HIS DEPTH WAS THE MOST ACCURATE NYM REATED ASSESSMENT OF THE 21srt CENTURY
NO ONE SHOULD EVER MISTAKE THE NATURE OF THE JOB TITLE OF NYM GENERAL MANAGER AS INCLUDING ANY CAPABILITY TO COMMIT WILPON MONEY UNLESS SPECIFICALLY APPRVED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
Well 62 if that is true en the entire speech from Sandy is a lie because he made it sound like he was the one deciding things! LOL
Truth of the Mets is Jeff isn’t running things he is just trying to appear to run them…
He doesn’t pass wind without Fred’s permission and truth is he is the spy for Fred and Saul not the guy employing the spys.
METSIE, OBVIOUSLY YOU’VE NOT SUCCESSFULLY MANAGED PEIOPLE IN A BUSINESS ENVIRONEMENT.
MYSELF, AS AN EXPERIENCED, SUCCESSFUL MIDDLE MANAGER IN A FORTUNE 100, CAN HONESTLY TELL U THA IF ANY OF MY MANAGERS EVER HINTED AT A DECISION BEING OUT OF THEIR HANDS, COMING “DOWN FROM ON-HIGH” THEY WOULDN’T BE MANAGING FOR ME MUCH LONGER. IN THE MNGT WORLD SUCH STATEMENTS ARE REFERED TO AS “TRANSPAREWNCY” ie THE ACT OF MAKING YOURSELF A VICTIM OF UPPER MNGT DECISIONS FOCUSING YOUR EMPLOYEES VICTRIOLE THROUGH YOU ONTO YOUR BOSSES.
OF COURSE IT’S BLATANTLY OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE THAT UNLESS THE MANAGER IS THE SOLE PROPRIETOR HIS EDICTS DEPICT SOMEONE ELSE’S PARAMETERS. BTW. TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THAT ABSOLUTELY NO GM IN BASEBALL OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS IS 100% AUTONOMOUS ANY SUGGESTION OTHERWISE IS LUDICROUS FI THEY WERE THE THEY AREDN’T GENERAL MANAGERS THEY ARE OWNER OPERATORS. CAPICHE?
Sorry 62 you could not be more wrong….
I have served as a CTO and EVP of Engineering in at least 5 different companies…
One of them I left because the decision that came down on high was going to bankrupt the company, kill services and I refused to implement it. They went bankrupt a year and a half after I left.
Yes Middle Managers have little choice nor can they be so bold.
Sandy isn’t a middle manager here.He is upper management!
It’s HIS reputation on the line, HIS legacy.
And any executive with a shred of self respect would say to the guy ordering him to do what he does not want to do or believe is right, would tell him you don’t like how I’m running it then replace me but I will not follow an order I believe will hurt the company!
Cause he is the one who is going to be judged on it not the boss that forced him to!
METSIE, ON ANY OTHER MLB ORGANIZATION U WOULD BE SPOT ON; HOWEVER THIS IS THE METS WHERE I COUNT…
FRED
SAUL
JEFF
SANDY
EVERYONE ELSE
AS THE DECISION HIERARCHY $3 IS MIDDLE BY MY RECOLLECTION, 1-3 IS UPPER FROM MY VANTAGE POINT
BASED UPON HIS INTERVIEW Re REYES & WRIGHT, WE KNOW FRED ISN’T CLIPPING COUPONS AT HOME; BUT TOO INVOLVED IN OPERATIONAL THINKING & SAUL IS HIS LOYAL SECOND BOTH a STERLING & IN FLUSHING SAUL IS BASICLY FRED’SECHO FROM MY VIEW OF THINGS, IF FRED IS “OUT OF TOUCH” ON A SUBJECT, SAUL, REST ASSURED WILL HAVE HIS BACK & ENFORCE HIS, FRED’S, WILL; EVEN OVER HIS NEPHEW, JEFF.
Well we agree there is no HONOR among that lot…
Certainly no personal integrity…
And definitly is a group that spends most of it’s time avoiding accountability for anything they do and use the press available to try and get thier story out as the fact when we know it is anything but….
We can’t do anything about the owners which is why I don’t see any point putting the blame on them…
But Sandy has chosen to hurt his legacy if he is doing thier bidding and deserves the knocks he gets!
If your not doing the BEST JOB possible then your the problem…If your boss insists then Sandy could endear himself to the fans by coming out and saying “I can’t deal with these guys they are interfering and making me destroy the team!
THEN the Wilpons will be affected and forced to sell the team and Sandy becomes a hero in NYC for solving the problems of this team…
He’s not doing that he is going along with what he knows is bad or worse agres with them….
In either case he is the problem more than the Wilpons because he is playing the role of mask and scapegoat if what everyone wants to believe is true!
My feeling is if you wish to ruin your company and tell me /Force me to do it, I will leave and work for someone interested in doing a GOOD job and keep my personal integrity so I can get the NEXT job!
Met fans complain that the FO wont admit they are rebuilding then when the FO admits what it is doing, then Met fans complain.
well, they also complain that they aren’t making moves, then complain about who they traded when they finally make one.
Met fans generally like to complain it seems.
If they are rebuilding then how come they just signed a 30 year old to an 8 year extension? why are they trying to trade niese who’s 25? why is dickey on the roster? Why did they not sign 21 out of 42 draft picks last year? Rebuilding? Really???
lol…I didnt see this when I posted my reply but….its the EXACT same thing I said lol
Lma, Leroy, just say THIS^^^^^^^^^^^
The not signing draft picks to me was really confusing and I think a sign of a dire financial situation…
They didnt have anywhere to put them. By eliminating one of the teams, they lost 25 roster spots.
Yup, it was all about the money – or lack thereof – and nothing but the money.
they do have an extra Dominican team, and signed a huge number of IFAs to make up for not signing as many draft picks.
so ultimately it looks like they end up with the same amount of inflow, just in different places.
the head scratcher was the stankeqicz guy (sp?). Most of the rest were later round picks that usually just become churn anyway. Most likely, their potential spots are taken by guys coming from overseas.
Yes rebuilding.
The decision to sign Wright strayed from the plan and everyone knows where that came from. It is no secret the Wilpon’s detest the idea of an empty Citi field and trading Wright would have assured that in 2013. So they ponied up the money which was evident the second Jeff used Wright’s name and “ambassador” in the same sentence.
As for trading Niese, they arent trying to trade him; they are willing to listen. Notice he is still here. If the package they get in return is better than what he gives now, he is gone.
Dickey is still unsigned because the team wants to move him for a good return if possible. They would love to get a couple of good prospects for him.
So yes they are rebuilding and have been for the past two years even if the Mets, themselves, refuse to use that term. Alderson stated that anything less than a .500 season in 2012 would be a disappointment. Does anyone other than a team rebuilding strive for a .500 season? Obviously not.
If you’re rebuilding you dont extend a 30yr old regressing 3rd basemen to the largest contract in team history.
And you definitely dont fail to sign half your draft selections
This might be the best piece you ever wrote. Finally some f’ckin passion from you. Where was this John Delcos hiding?
I don’t actually see any contradiction here. Of course “the roster will look similar to what it did at the end of last season – with some exceptions”. How many and of what magnitude of changes was anyone realistically expecting? If they acquire an OF and a catcher along with resigning Wright and replacing a SP (Dickey or Neise) who they may trade, they will have a roster which looks similar to what it did at the end of last season – with some exceptions.”
So what’s the problem? If you were expecting any more than this, please explain.
Hey Delcos, for somebody whos not a mets fan, you sure are starting to sound like one
What is everyone pissed about, our team had almost a 140 million dollar payroll and they were Sh*tty. Now they have a 93 million dollar payroll and they’re sh*tty. Frankly, the lower the payroll the more it is understandable that they’re sh*tty. The old way didn’t work, the new way hasn’t had enough time yet, who is out there that fans think the mets should get? People aren’t offering anything for Dickey, Will it stop the crying if we signed Jesus Flores? Is he the long-term answer or just another contract we’ll be waiting to come off the books. I do like the idea of Cody Ross, but do you think Cody Ross likes the idea of playing for a sh*tty team for 2-3 years? Not without extra $, and aren’t we tired of over paying people? Sorry I keep using a bad word, It reminds me of the two grounds keepers int he the movie Major Leagues, we should heed their opinions, our team is still sh*tty. Frankly, trade Dickey for Olt if that deal is on the table, stop acting like we’re talking about Greg Maddux, we’d be lucky to get Olt and some spare parts.
We could always become Miami fans…
LOL.
Well said.
“We could always become Miami fans”
A couple people around here tried that. Didn’t take, apparently.
We could always become Miami fans…”
Well, to be fair, since 1997 Miami Marlins fans have had more parades than mets fans.. same as boston and giants… and 2 more than mets fans..
Also, I think if given a choice to pick a team, i wouldn’t go too far. just across town
so what keeping you alex? dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya !!
well, how can i betrayed my team, and my favorite player of all tim (cough, cough, cough) excuse me, i was choking, favorite player david (cough, cough, cough) whoa, choking again… wright..
you can root for the great arod over there. youll love it.
I love the old “Miami (Florida) has as many championships as the Mets do” argument when it comes up. Seriously? They almost won those rings by ACCIDENT. SMH
Miami is still sh**tier.
Alderson in my view wants to make the Mets a not better team then he should take a hike and leave.
Well, your opinion aside, I don’t think he’s going to.
I don’t understand how anybody could not think that this general manager’s only qualification is having the ability to have kept the Wilpons from selling the team through this point. And even with that, why put one with such a total lack of baseball knowledge in the position to pull the strings as far as baseball personnel is concerned other than that there was a dire financial emergency with hiring him one of the stipuations set forth by the commissioner so to bail out his personal friends.
If one wants to say there was no other way for the Mets to have conducted business considering the financial situation Sterling Equities is in, that is fine. But please, no more justifying these moves in terms of them coming from a baseball visionary.
The guy has been in MLB for 30 years or so now. And much of that in the FO as a COO or GM. I think in all that time he must have learned something about baseball and the job.
besides, look at the young hot shots now (the guy in TB, Daniels, and some others). That have way less background in baseball, as in, just the few years they have been doing this. And Friedman started as a saber stats jockey (and he has the dreaded Ivy league education!)
so what exactly is this magical background Sandy is supposed to have? Player? Scout? Broadcaster?
A lot of opinion stated as fact there, Joey D. Come on.
Hi Edgy,
Well, the financial problems of the Mets are well documented, including the fact that twice they could not meet their end of the month operating expenses. Bud Selig admitted that he took special measures not done with other clubs to help the Wilpons because they did not bring their financial problems upon themselves but were victimized by Madoff. One of those measures was urging Sandy Alderson take over as general manager – something that has also been admitted by both Selig and Sandy – with Sandy having stated he had no interest in the job at first and was happy with what he was doing and Selig having said he wanted Sandy there with the Mets.
What resulted was the Wilpons hiring someone who didn’t want the job but looked into it upon the urging of the commissioner and then hired at the commissioner’s urging as well. That is not opinion but fact.
Then there is Sandy himself. When listening or reading his interviews he comes across so astute in terms of business, law and finance. It is quite detailed and, for many of us, above our heads. And when looking at his career portfolio, it is an impressive list of legal and financial situations both in and out of baseball. So is his educational background before joining a prestigious west coast based law firm.
But when it comes to talking baseball Sandy does not talk either in terms impressive or even as one with a keen knowledge. When asked to judge what could be wrong with a player Ike Davis, Sandy said he could only talk about it as an “observer”. On his first appearance on SNY taking questions from the viewing audience, he was asked if something was going to be done to Citi Field to help the Mets hit more home runs. He said there was nothing about Citi Field that had to be changed but that the Mets instead had to learn how to hit home runs there. And we of course know about his explanation for why the Met hitters floundered in the second half – the PPPA going down, an indication that the Mets weren’t being as disciplined working the count as they were earlier in the season. It was pointed out by another MMO follower that Gary Cohen later said the decrease Sandy talked about amounted to one less pitch every twenty batters.
These are also facts, not opinions.
Sandy said when it came to the game he was completely cold when first joining Oakland. I just don’t see how one who admits to having been totally inexperienced in the game can come in and in one year make player moves at an executive level. I also don’t see how one can be qualified to be in that position today with how he comes across when talking about the game.
A while back I attached an article in which Sandy was talking about the reasons he traded McGwire while leading the majors in home runs and having a chance to break Roger Maris’ then (and I still believe now) season home run record. He talked about it in terms of business, citing how many fans Oakland would need to draw in order to make up for the financial cost of keeping McGwire. He also noted that in today’s world, trades are no longer based on talent.
So I think the verdict I’ve reached is based on overwhelming facts.
Hi Edgy,
Forgot to include the attached in my last post. It quotes Sandy regarding the points I made regarding Sandy’s feelings about sending McGwire to St. Louis and trades in general not being about talent.
Again, another reason for the opinion I formulated which I think is quite justified. And, it’s not that much different than those expressed by most of late, perhaps using different vantage points to state their cases, but the same bottom line nonetheless.
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/McGwire-trade-may-haunt-A-s-3070724.php
most of those points are still clearly opinions
Hi this,
Which are just opinion?
1) That twice the Mets couldn’t meet their end of the month expenses and needed loans in order to do so?
2) That Sandy wasn’t interested in the job?
3) That Selig didn’t urge him to take it?
4) That Selig didn’t cite special circumstances to helping the Wilpons?
5) That Sandy didn’t say trades are no longer based on talent?
6) That Sandy doesn’t have a distinguished career in law and business?
7) That Sandy said he was only an observer when asked about what was wrong with Ike?
8) That Sandy said the drop in hitting was due to the batters not working the count better, using PPPA as his argument, when that amounted to just one additional pitch every twenty at bats?
9) That Sandy didn’t say that the problem wasn’t Citi Field but that the Mets had to learn how to hit home runs there?
10) That Sandy said he came in cold when becoming Oakland’s general manager?
And based on this factual evidence, is it not reasonable to conclude he is a business executive whose background and experience qualifies him as one who could possibly keep the business solvent for the ownership in lieu of being an executive if the decision making process of the game?
And if not, isn’t just his two year history alone with the Mets – including the double-talk with the fans and even just the $40,000 slot money that the team not spent on our number two draft pick (75th overall) be enough evidence to come to that same conclusion?
Ciao
“I don’t understand how anybody could not think that this general manager’s only qualification is having the ability to have kept the Wilpons from selling the team through this point.”
Opinion. And a really hard one to support, given Alderson’s history.
“And even with that, why put one with such a total lack of baseball knowledge in the position to pull the strings as far as baseball personnel is concerned other than that there was a dire financial emergency with hiring him one of the stipuations set forth by the commissioner so to bail out his personal friends.”
Opinion. Absurd, given the facts that it runs up against.
Do we really need to review Sandy Alderson’s C.V.? If you don’t like him, fine. If his non-commital answers infuriate you, OK. (Most GMs say little more.) If you’re unimpressed by his history, you’re unimpressed. But let’s not pretend it’s not there.
I’m still a big fan of “The Peppermint Twist,” however.
Hi Edgy,
Do I sense a connection between still liking the peppermint twist and me? After all, the song was performed by “Joey Dee”. LOL
Edgy you NEED to stick around.
Thanks. I generally post on the Crane Pool Forum. Lot less noisy than here.
Don’t waste your time Edgy. He’s been trying to disparage him for almost a year now. Going o far as to make up stories about his career. Agenda at it’s worst.
Hi Fonzie,
Still haven’t answered my question about why you are about the only one who makes such comments about me making up things, etc. Even Donal who disagrees with my opinion wrote “Except you use relative terminology trying to make your case. The only way to verify what you are saying one way or the other is to look at his contemporaries”.
The Lone Ranger rides again – and still hasn’t risen above the sewer as the owner of this website asked him to do.
I tell it like it is. I can’t speak for Donal. If telling it like it is means in the sewer then so be it. If you don’t like to be called out for making things up then um maybe you shouldn’t have made things up. Remember like when you made up the story that Bill Rigney built the A’s. A semi retired consultant who worked in the broadcast booth Sandy’s first 3 years as GM was the one responsible for the player moves. And then used a link from 1982 one year before Sand was GM as your evidence. And then saying things like many people contest Sandy was the architect of the A’s. Many = two people. Should I continue? Maybe Donal doesn’t wanna get into a long winded debate that you’ll drag out for 6 months over something that’s irrelevant to the Mets. Especially when it’s all BS. But hey keep posting your BS cause I love calling you out on it.
Well, Fonzie, I do have to respect you for sticking to your guns about what you claim about me, even if the fact that you are about the only accusing me of making things up and being a liar.
Jessup, Donal, Edgy, If and Just are among others in this thread alone who have disagreed with my conclusions but not accusing me of making up false stories to back my opinions up. Like with Bill Rigney, those who have their doubts as to his importance with Oakland disagree with my conclusion but do not claim I am lying about things to back up my points.
So why don’t you just do what they do – make a valid argument by decipherng the evidence as I present it to show that it could also be viewed differently? If all one can do to make a counter-argument is to discredit somebody else , that shows an inability to directly dispute the points being made by creating a diversion instead.
The Lone Ranger rides again.
” Maybe Donal doesn’t wanna get into a long winded debate that you’ll drag out for 6 months over something that’s irrelevant to the Mets.”
Count me in that category as well. I too agree that it’s pointless to try to even correlate what he did in Oakland 30 years ago and see no point in trying to belittle what he did there.
If only we didn’t have to spend so much energy defending our GM, worrying about the cash flow of billionaires, and parsing the words from our beloved organization. Man what would that be like?? The Mets are going nowhere fast. At this point, I don’t even know what’s left to try and defend.
Honestly, I’m just hoping for the best with the Dickey trade. With our luck we’ll get Lucas Duda 2.0 in Olt. If the Wilpons won’t sell, I think I’m about to be a free agent. I honestly don’t know how you guys survived the late 70s and early 80s.I’m holding on because well, that’s what we do. But please, don’t tell me I have to be okay with a regressing product and a team that will be worse than even the Marlins come 2014.
oh come on guys. the mets are still in better shape than plenty of other teams. they’ve been a slightly below average team since 200
2008 going by wins and losses
The Wilpons are clueless,,Jeff would be a used car salesmen in Roslyn if it wasnt for Daddy,,Sell the team you scam artists,you all knew the deal with Madoff.I was hoping the Bankruptcy trustee would hammer you guys to death so you had to sell.Bunch of liars,Alderson is the fall guy,dont ask me why he took this job in the first place.You cant afford the team so sell,MLB should force their hand and make them sell.This is NY jerkies,enough of the non-sense,Minaya and Madoff both did a number on the Mets fan..
What did you expect ???
The Mets have been rebuilding since 2010. It actually started in Minaya’s final year as it became obvious ownership is broke and there won’t be money for any sort of proven additions from the outside going forward. The Mets made no trades for upgrades in July of 2010 and haven’t traded a single prospect for over 3 years, And the existing roster, besides costing too much was not going to be good enough, winning 70 and 78 games in 2009 and 2010 respectively. And there wasn’t much immediate help on the farm either.
Rebuilding doesn’t mean “fire sale” or “trade everybody over age 28″ or publically stating ” our owners are broke, because of that, we won’t have a real chance for the next couple of years.”
It basically means PATIENCE – something Mets fans haven’t managed to accept for more than a year at a time (1995, 2003) since the early 80s.
It’s a grinding and excruciating process. There’s no guarantee it’ll work. But just making trades for the sake of making them to appease the fanbase probably doesn’t do it.
You cant have Fred Lewis and Andres Torres have more playing time in September than Kirk and Valdy and still tell me you are rebuilding.
Lets not forget Gary Matthews Jr starting over Pagan in 2010. The only reason we got that great season from Angel was because GMJ stunk the place up.
Aside from Bay ( who was the hand me down version of Matt Holliday ) , we have been shopping at the thrift store for 5 years now.
Fred Lewis played 28.2 innings in the field for the Mets in September/October out of over 270 innings of baseball played.
You’re the one that cited “major playing time.” Not me. Sorry I get what you’re saying but your use of Fred Lewis is not accurate at all. He started 3 games in Sept/Oct.
Sorry, but the “we are rebuilding” argument went out the window when we signed a soon to be 30 year old 3rdbaseman to the largest contract in franchise history.
After a team make a move like that, you expect the team to do whatever it takes(within reason) to be competitive. Otherwise, then they would have just wasted 140M for nothing, and they would have wasted a chance to trade him for quality prospects to hasten the rebuilding process.
And when the team finally does get rebuilt(which at this rate is probably never), Wright will wind up hurting the roster because then he’ll be past his prime and will be getting paid 20M per year. It would limit the amount of money we could spend on future FA’s who could then put us over the top.
The SAND PEOPLE seem to think tearing down the house is REBUILDING and Putting up the house and improving it a mistake 4 years from now….
They know no reason or logic here Vinny….
They are just Salmon fighting the tide and swimming up stream hoping that at the end thier moneyball dream will spawn and produce something….
We re-signed Wright and he is here until 2020….
Which is about the time Sandy’s plan to make a winner around him MIGHT actually win something.
Thing is trying to be rational. Having a deep farm system is more vital than ever before.
Most teams are signing their best players to longterm contracts. This thing won’t be fixed via free agency – unless you believe giving absurd contracts to Shane Victorino or Mike Napoli is the way to fix your team. Jacoby Ellsbury and Shin Soo Choo will be the best free agents available next winter.Neither is anywhere near as valuable as Wright, yet probably will land a larger contract next winter.
So if the goal is to win in 2014, 2015 and 2016, your best shot is with David Wright, the All Star 3bman on your team and not traded for prospects. Wright is the most likely Met to post an .850+ OPS during the next 4 years among any players in the organization.
So if you trade him this winter, where is the offense going to come from.
And who says rebuilding means losing 100 games ?
I’m still waiting for a rational argument for a different plan to fix things.
I am very frustrated with the Meta myself. I would have enjoyed more excitement in terms of trades and free agent signings. However as long as scrubs are getting monster contracts, free agency makes little sense. And with a thin major league roster, wanna stir things up by trading Wright, Niese, Harvey or Ike, i.e. arguaby the 4 players with the highest trade value on the roster right now.
Or do you expect a Josh Thole & Lucas Duda for Matt Wieters trade ?
Will this all work ? Who knows.
Sandy Alderson and co. aren’t geniuses and certainly have produced a mixed bag in the few moves that have been made.
However the general approach is valid and basically without alternatives that make sense.
Yeah cause the Yankees won all those Pennants, Championships and World Series titles based on the strength of thier Minor League teams right?
They haven’t had a player of Jeter’s quality come up SINCE Jeter!
Robinson Cano has become a pretty good homegrown player, right ? And while a major problem for the Yankees has been that their system has dried up recently – and their ownership group has apparently stopped giving the GM an unlimited budget – the key to their late 1990s dynasty clearly was a very strong homegrown, young core surrounded by a fine veteran supporting cast:
Bernie Williams
Derek Jeter
Jorge Posada
Mariano Rivera
Andy Pettitte
And this core basically took them through over a decade with some of them still performing as they are closing in to finish their HOF caliber careers.
Obviously, you can outspend your mistakes and having a subpar farm system. Which is basically what the Yankees have done for the past decade where Cano, Melky Cabrera, Brett Gardner and Phillip Hughes are the only legit products out of their system.
However, in the Mets case, at least currently their ownership is either unwilling or unable to spend in an almost unlimited way. To the contrary, they are cash-strapped, so the option of speeding up the process by trying to buy your way to success hasn´t been there anymore for the past 3 years or so. To the contrary, to avoid bancrupcy, costs had to be cut at all ends.
So, that makes sporting a strong farm system all the more important.
Hi Dr. D.,
That is true but it also came down to the point of not negotiating with their number two pick over $40,000 slot money, signing the second lowest amount of draft selections of all 30 clubs, stopping the operation of their rookie team in Port St. Lucie for a year and eliminating the position of the Pacific rim scout (and who knows what else),
In addition, only two teams spent less, percentage wise, than the Mets did of their pool allocation last June. In fact, the cash strapped Royals payed over $100,000 in taxes to go over their pool allocation. That does not explain why the Mets didn’t sign Stankawitz – since he would have caused them to go over the into the tax payment area regardless – had he accepted their offer of still over $600K.
These are indeed either alarming indications of just how bad the financial resources must be or a reality check of how much Sandy isn’t even willing to spend on player development, the mainstay of his baseball plan.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/2012/07/bonus-pool-spending/
which makes the 138 mil for a player on the decline even more of a head-scratcher
that core ( aside from BW ) was nowhere to be found in 1994…when they had the BEST record in baseball…
please spare me….the yanks supplemented their ALL-STAR team with some rookies, not the other way around
Montreal had the best record in 94.
The Yanks didn’t become a dynasty until that core was in place. Jeter, Mariano, Bernie and Pettite were huge factors on that 96 team and beyond. Posada became a regular in 98. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think that homegrown core was the reason why they dominated the sport in the late 90′s
The team finished with a record of 70-43 finishing 6 1⁄2 games ahead of the Baltimore Orioles, having the best record in the American League and the second-best record in Major League Baseball
Jeter + Mariano + Pettitte + Posada were in the minors
#NiceTry
Best in AL not in baseball, you said in baseball. How many titles did they win with those guys in the minors? They won none. First round exit in 95 because Showalter had no faith in rookie Mariano Rivera in game 5 and left Cone in too long. The dynasty began with the homegrown core. There’s no other way around it.
LOL
So the fact that the core surrounded by an all-star cast had nothing to do with that dynasty !
Jeter had Boggs, Hayes, Mariano Duncan, and Tino in the infield
Bernie had Tim Raines, Straw, Paul O’Neill in the OF
The staff had Cone, Jimmy Key, David Wells, El Duque,
But yeah, they went on that run b/c of the core….
LMAO
hahahaha I love it….
So Fonzie you once argued with me and called me a liar for saying the Mets were ranked 20 something in the League trying to tell me there were only 16 teams in the league and now your playing the same game in reverse?
Tsk Tsk….Consistency is an ally my friend.
Cano is the only guy since 95 to come up. and he came up in 2005 10 years after the original “CORE”…
WIlliams was there in 91 not part of the 95 class of kids they had…
Posada is not a great player hell Ike Davis has a better shot at the hall than Jorge does…
Pettite has never won a Cy Young…Dickey has and Niese could with another small step, so too could Harvey or Wheeler…
Jeter is an Annual All Star but then again so is Wright…
SO really all they got that we have not found an equivilent to so far is Rivera…
Players we have they did NOT have an equivilent for…
Reuben Tejada
Daniel Murphy
Dillon Gee
SO really Cano is the only real addition from the original group of what you call CORE and that core would have done SQUAT without the following:
Boggs
Fernandez
Polonia
O’Niell
Sierra
McDowell
Cone
Girardi
Rogers
Gooden
Key
Raines
Wells
Brosius
Strawberry
Irabu
Hernandez
Clemens
(and thats just the guys they got in the first 5 years of thier CORE you say carried them!)
SO this CORE myth and it’s importance is just bunk!
Cano didn’t get here till 2005 and they only won ONE WS since he got here!
DrDooby, you speak way too much logic to be commenting here. You are a smart man.
Fun to watch the SAND PEOPLE all tripping over themselves to play the role of Nero’s Advisors and finding new excuses to say Don’t worry about the fire keep playing that Fiddle…All Hail Ceasar!
As if sucking at being Cheaper and giving up on a season in December is some sort of accomplishment….
I mean if sucking for a year is not so bad why get good at all?
WHy not just suck ALL the time?
If a winning season every year is not important to you why should it be important 4 years from now?
I think the mets overpaid Wright. So I don’t think he has anything to complain about. If he wanted to play on a winner he could have played out his contract and gone FA. But he would not have gotten the money the mets gave him.
Please don’t pull the Marlins won x amount of championships etc etc. Give me the strike zone Livan Hernandz was given against the Indians and I’ll win three games in the world series…
PLUS+++++++++ if you use that argument, then you’re supporting my argument that the team needs to change the way it is managed. Sandy is a smart man, a smart baseball man and a smart business man, i don’t think any of us could argue that honestly, he didn’t make it this far in life by being dumb.
Being a Brooklynite, I love the Mets, and the Jets, I could have been a Yankees fan, and a Giants fan, some of us like the abuse. For once I’d like to see a string of young prospects come up and replace aging veterans. How come you’re not upset that there isn’t 1 single outfield prospect worth shaking a stick at right now? One knock on Sandy, why the hell did they not sign half of the people they drafted last year?? Although that order could have came from the Wilpons.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THIS YEAR!!!!! get over it, this is what happens when you run a team only thinking about the immediate season ahead of you, kind of like a lot of you are doing now. We will have a decent rotation in 1-2 years, heck it isn’t that bad now, we need hitters and I don’t want to have the team overpay for a bunch of spare parts (the Ryan Ludwicks of the world) just to be possibly, a slightly below .500 team.
“this is what happens when you run a team only thinking about the immediate season ahead of you”
u mean like not trading byrdack and hairston in a meaningless 2012 summer?
some smart baseball guy he is !
i think u have no idea what ur talkin about. your killin Alderson when hes done nothing but the right moves. He traded for Wheeler, drafted Nimmo and made our team a respectable ball club , all withought spending no money(Except for D.Wright’s contract). He bought up Harvey last year at the right time and let him come in and pitch amazing. We all know Wheeler is gunna be a complete stud and is better than Harvey. Alderson wants to already buy the arbiration years but u missed that in ur article, You were to busy about worrying about a big name contract that were gunna sign. The mets arent in the situation to really be doin that shyt but u seem like a child with how badly you tried rippin apart Alderson and even comparing him to Omar, wilpons and Gilligen.
Pagan for Ramirez and Torres….
Nothin but the right moves….How can anyone take you SAND PEOPLE seriously when you make statements like that?
See, that right there Metsie, it’s what you call hindsight.
You’re right it’s definite Alderson’s fault that Ramirez went from being one of the best relievers in the game the previous four years, to absolute garbage. What was he thinking wanting a pitcher like that in a bullpen that was atrocious the last five years, for a half-assing player that clearly needed to ship out of new york. If David Wright pulled what Pagan pulled he would be crucified.
it’s real easy to sit there and say that trade was bad because Pagan actually didn’t suck for once and Ramirez blew.
Hi CB,
To me, I look at the trade when it was made, not so much the end results.
Even with his off-year, Pagan was an everyday center fielder. I think that was too much to trade for a good, middle inning reliever like Ramon was, especially when the replacement for Pagan was to be a four year older Andres Torres who, like R.A., spent most of his long career in the minors and only had one good season.
It was risky and could have reaped benefits for the Mets had Rameriz simply pitched like he had done before and Torres proved that 2010 was no fluke. But, as we know, Andres was not the long-term answer to a newly created problem in center in which it seems we have questinable candidates down on the farm to resolve. Angel Pagan at least had many years ahead of him (crazy as they might be at times).
But again, it wasn’t trading Angel but that for an everyday player, we could have gotten more back than we did since it was basicly Angel for Ramon with a utility outfielder thrown into the mix.
I said it BEFORE Pagan didn’t suck and the two guys we got DID, at least did for us I thought they sucked even before they got here as well.
LOL
having fred lewis and torres start in september while kirk and valdy ride the bench is def not one of “the right moves”
Kirk was hurt in September and Byrdak and Hairston would have gotten you a team’s 20th prospect which you would have a better chance getting a decent player from the waiver wire.
Go back and look at what I said at the time of the trade…
Hindsight my a$$!
Just because you refuse to believe me when I said that was a horrible trade at the time doesn’t make what I said then hindsight it makes your attempts to defend it SHORTSIGHT!
Alderson getting senile? We are looking like a AAA club and not even a good one at that. We have some good young arms and a few decent position players but not much else. Dickey is a veteran who leads by example and is loyal. Give him the $6m more that it would take to get this done and start looking for a bullpen. We certainly don’t have one now.
Sandy Alderson is not fit to be a GM in the 21st century.
And no matter how much money he has, he won’t spend. Nor will he trade young players. He’s a dysfunctional person in a suit, hiding behind intellect and a public persona he’s built. New York has a way of exposing people for who they are. This emperor has been steadily losing his clothes within weeks of his arrival, and the disrobing continues.
You expected him to be another Andrew Friedman?
If he was wise, he never would’ve raised a player’s value higher than what it really is. Scott Hairston and Dickey are prime examples. He wants super prospects for ONE guy, even when he isn’t worth that high of value and is unwilling to compromise on what the ML team really needs. He walked away on a possible package of guys Tampa just got for Myers, he missed on Bauer, he missed on Sherill (who would’ve been a very good pickup for a lefty out of the pen when he returns from TJS), and he’s missing out on a good pool of pitching as it is now in free agency. It’s amazing how he can rip on the problems of his own team or in fact, rip on the fans (think of his comments on Sandoval/Wright back at the ASG voting), but won’t do anything about it. Now, if I were Alderson, I would’ve been telling teams like Texas, KC, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Boston, Yanks, and whoever held interest in Dickey that we require OF & (relief) pitching for Dickey dating back to the GM meetings. Nothing more, nothing less.
Is Friedman, a finance (wall street) guy and avowed saber fan, with absolutely no background in professional BB, the guy you want to use as an example of why Sandy is not fit to be a GM?
Hi If,
We are talking about Sandy Alderson, not Friedman. One has nothing to do with the other and each must be based on his own merits. But you are also forgetting that Friedman went to Tulane University on a baseball scholarship, the same University that his father also played baseball for. So it’s not like he didn’t know something about the game – but again, we are talking about Sandy Alderson and to talk about Sandy by brining anybody else into the conversation for comparison purposes is irrelevant.
How did Sandy Alderson play 2B at Harvard for 3 years if he didn’t know anything about baseball? Did he run to 3B first instead of 1B. Did he position himself in foul territory? Is Sandy from Bangladesh and never heard of baseball when he became GM of Oakland? The things you come up with are really hilarious. Friedman knew about the game because he got a scholarship to Tulane but Sandy didn’t even though he was the starting 2Bman at Harvard for 3 years.
Hi Fonzie,
Like I said before, we are talking about Sandy Alderson and nothing else.
Though I pointed out that Friedman did have some sort of baseball background getting that scholarship to Tulane I still then added: “but again, we are talking about Sandy Alderson and to talk about Sandy by brining anybody else into the conversation for comparison purposes is irrelevant.”
Except you use relative terminology trying to make your case. The only way to verify what you are saying one way or the other is to look at his contemporaries.
Sandy played college ball too. What does that have to do with running a baseball team. Friedman didn’t learn how to become an executive playing college baseball any more than any other college player. Their career paths are almost identical. Get over your agenda already.
Alderson was an undergrad at Dartmouth. He went to Harvard Law.
Thanks for the clarification.
Sandy never played 3 years at HARVARD. You are beyond the point of embarrasment
============================
“He wasn’t a baseball neophyte. Alderson played second base at Dartmouth his first two years there.
“I wasn’t very good,” he says. “The best thing I did was quit because it gave me a chance to try other things.”
============================
Sue me I got the school wrong.
Oh and did I say he was good? Does it mean that Friedman has more knowledge about baseball because he went to Tulane as opposed to Darthmouth which is what Joey D is implying?
and the number of years…
technically, Jeff Wilpon has more collegiate baseball experience
I know a ton of folks who played college ball and i wouldnt trust them with my fantasy roster, much less a real team
I think Sandy is a terrific COO or head exec who should deal with legal matters and stuff…
we basically have 2 COO’s, with 1 of them playing pt GM when he has to
A team that has Fred Lewis and Torres getting major playing time in september while the kids are on the bench rotting is a team with no direction.
Fred Lewis got “major” playing time in September?
How many games did he start? 3? 4 maybe?
nope
Lewis played in 18 games in September
Bay played in 17 games
Torres played in 28 games
Hairston played in 27 games
Kirk – 0 games
Valdy – 5 games
Sorry champ…but thats not rebuilding…thats scrapping to win every last game to make 2012 look a lil more respectable come time to sell 2013 tickets
#WhoYouThinkYouFoolin
This is more madness. Nieuwenhuis didn’t play in September because he was hurt.
Hi Just,
Sorry that I included you with the names of others who are politely disagreeing with me on this topic since you are oviously not.
Again, I feel if one looks deeply into Sandy’s background, Sandy’s interviews, Sandy’s past experience and even the nature in which he explains things to the public, by connecting the dots there is indeed enough valid evidence to concure he is the CEO type-executive and not one to deal with player personnel issues, even though he has been given that authority.
Like others, Sandy does have his hand picked experienced baseball people to support him. However, as you pointed out, look who those people are. And like others, Sandy too would want those who fall in line with his way of thinking…., good or bad.
Damaja
How many games did Fred Lewis START in September to qualify major playing time?
Sorry champ… just because you play in a game as a pinch hitter doesn’t mean you got major playing time. There’s a difference between Games Played and Games Started. I was right, Lewis started 3 games in September. In every game besides those 3, he had 1 AB. You’re calling 1 AB “major playing time”?
#WhoYouThinkYouFoolin
how many innings did he play in the OF ?
How many times did he pinch run?
all these things count toward being able to learn on the MLB level
defense, running, hitting
in a rebuilding year, you have Valdespin and Kirk ride the bench in September…so Fred Lewis AND Torres AND Hairston all get more playing time?
thats not rebuilding
u can dress up a bag of dogsh*t and call it dunkin donuts, it doesnt make it any different
Kirk *wasn’t* riding the bench. He had been hurt, shut down, and sent home.
Joey – what baseball experience does Jon Daniels have? Last time I checked his team went to the last 2 out of 3 world series’ right?
by the way, Alderson has more than 30 years inside the baseball industry which is why people like Steve Phillips say he is one of the most respected execs or everybody around the sport says the same thing…. He’s got more experience in baseball than some GM’s combined.
Hi Jessep,
I am not questioning Sandy’s ability as a baseball executive. He even won the MLB Executive Of The Year Award one time. In fact, didn’t I mention that he had an impressive resume of accomplishments both inside and outside of the game.
It was the type of executive capacity that I was referring to. M. Donald Grant was a baseball executive as well, remember?
Grant was Chairman of the Board. He never served as a GM.
Yeah I guess then Grant was a nice guy and not responsible for trading Seaver then right?
Joey & Damaja – Since you guys BOTH are admitting John Hart knows what he’s talking about. Allow me to share this with you
“Sandy was always the baseball guy who understood what GMs went through,” says John Hart, general manager of the Texas Rangers. “He wasn’t afraid to tell it like it was. He was always fair because he understood the game. He’s special.”
Let me reiterate what JOHN HART said
He understands the game
Go figure right? Now who should I believe? Joey D and Just Damaja ooooor John Hart? Hm.
Steve Phillips also said th Mets got away from their PPPA of the first half when their offense struggled in the 2nd half. He said the same thing about Boston to Mad Dog Russo on his radi show 2 weeks ago.
So nice for Jon Daniels to have someone like NOLAN RYAN over his shoulder.
Sandy has Jeff Wilpon over his shoulder while he mentors JP + DEPO,
The blind leading the blind leading the blind leadi…
You realize that Ryan got to Texas 2 full seasons after Daniels had already been the GM right?
Daniels was trained by John Hart. When Ryan got there, Daniels had already begun building the team from the ground up.
Not saying Ryan doesn’t help – but lets not act like Daniels knew nothing about baseball until Nolan Ryan came aboard
So having John Hart + Nolan Ryan might be just a tiny reason why Daniels lack of personal baseball experience doesnt hurt him.
The fact that Sandy is no longter surrounded by talented folks pretty much exposes him to be a great lawyer, but bad GM
Essentially he is a modern day upgraded version of Al Harazin
So are you trying to now tell me that Sandy Alderson has never been surrounded by people who know the game of baseball?
I’m trying to figure this out – are you actually trying to insinuate that Alderson is not qualified enough to run a baseball team? Is that REALLY where you’re going with this?
This just gets sillier and sillier.
I don’t care if Sandy played second base at Harvard, third base at Dartmouth or Parcheesi at Ball State. He’s been at the top of the game for 30 years. If you don’t like him, you don’t like him. The idea that he doesn’t know anything about the game is risible. If you start from there, we’re wasting time.
Never?
No…I’m sure at one point he did…
that time however is NOT NOW, that is for sure
” He’s been at the top of the game for 30 years.”
LMAO
Top of what game?
the last time he produced a winner, MC Hammer was the world’s most popular rapper.
That has to be up there with whitney houstin ( RIP ) saying that Bobby Brown was still the king of R&B
Hi Edgy,
The point we are trying to make is not that he knows nothing about baseball but that he has little knowledge or understanding regarding the professional aspects of putting together a team. Sandy admits he learned about that by studying Bill James. Many of us believe that this in itself does not qualify one to be professional. Others do.
“LMAO
Top of what game?”
Did you actually laugh your ass off or are you just making that up?
Top of the game of baseball. He’s had executive-level authority for multiple MLB organizations and the league itself. He has as much experience as anybody. It doesn’t make him right and you wrong, but it’s a fact that can’t be made to go away no matter how many theories of his insignificance can be floated. I don’t know why anyone would waste mental energy playing that game.
“That has to be up there with whitney houstin ( RIP ) saying that Bobby Brown was still the king of R&B.”
I don’t know what this has to do with anything, but her name has no “i” in it.
“The point we are trying to make is not that he knows nothing about baseball”
Folks above have certainly said as much. It’s maddening.
“…but that he has little knowledge or understanding regarding the professional aspects of putting together a team.”
And, considering his track record, I think that is patently absurd.
“Sandy admits he learned about that by studying Bill James.”
This is a gross overstatement.
“Many of us believe that this in itself does not qualify one to be professional.”
Well sure. If it was remotely true that reading Bill James was the sum total of his qualifications, he would certainly be under-qualified to hold his job. This, of course, is not remotely true.
“Others do.”
Straw men.
Is every day here this absurd?
Hi Edgy,
Attached is a very favorable Sandy Alderon article in which it points that it was not a gross overstatement about his learning of the game through statistical analysis. The mistake I might have made was focusing it all in Bill James himself.
But the point about based on his track record, it is absurd to claim he has little knowledge or understanding regarding the professional aspects of putting together a team, don’t forget that track record also includes six seasons in which Oakland immediately went from being a dynasty to that of a sub .500 team (the last two seasons were those inherited by Billy Beane). Add to that two consecutive seasons with the Mets and that makes eight years in a row.
And we also must consider that in his two years as Mets GM, he had teams fighting for the wildcard past the all-star break and nothing done to help carry that further onto the season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2048402
“… his learning of the game through statistical analysis. The mistake I might have made was focusing it all in Bill James himself.”
So, you admit you were wrong but still stick to a gross overstatement. As if he didn’t know a lot going in, and hasn’t learned many aspects of the game viewing it through many facetsover 30 years.
Statistical analysis is a real, valid, and important field of knowledge for a baseball executive. To dismiss anyone because he discusses his development in this field as somehow being a know-nothing beyond it is, in itself, an expression of know-nothingness. Please stop. There are valid ways to criticize Sandy Alderson. This isn’t one of them.
When I make a claim that all of Sandy Alderson’s teams were successful every year, please remind me of those finishes again. As it stands, I haven’t.
It’s just amazing that this continues. I quit. I have work to do. Anybody want to engage in more baseball chat, the Crane Pool Forum is a really fun place also.
http://www.cranepooforum.net
Again Joey I reiterate
“Sandy was always the baseball guy who understood what GMs went through,” says John Hart, general manager of the Texas Rangers. “He wasn’t afraid to tell it like it was. He was always fair because he understood the game. He’s special.” – John Hart
LMAO than under those guidelines…
Omar Minaya has been at the top of the game !
GM of 2 teams
Asst GM of 2 teams
baseball experience on the MLB level spanning 30 years.
Hi Edgy,
I admit that I used the wrong noun, which is not the same. But it still doesn’t change the fact that Sandy admitted knowing nothing of the game professionally when going in. He said he came in cold.
Me too, gotta go to work myself.
Hi Jessup,
I do not doubt how sincere John Hart is with that assessment. I also know Billy Beane feels the same way about Alderson as well and I assume they are not alone in this matter.
But there is just so much to be skeptical about based upon what Sandy has articlated in regards to his own professional understanding and philsophies, the moves he has made and the honesty in his statements compared to his actions that it is not unreasonable to ask questions about how much is real and how much is myth in regards – not to the business of baseball – but to the sport of baseball itself on such an executive level.
It would be interesting but of course impossible to find out what his other fellow general managers might have to say if talking off the record. That is totally speculative on my part and not meant to be construed as anything more than a thought and not an accusation.
He had good guys around him in Oakland with BR (sorry for the Abbrev but I’m avoiding Moderation) and then Beane….
After that he has had nothing of any worth around him and his record post Oakland proves it!
Hi Metsie,
Taking a chance with mentioning the initials BR, you know? It’s been a lively day to say the least on this end.
How could BR be involved in player moves since he was only a broadcaster? Well, Ralph Kiner, who has been with the Mets from the start, also served as the general manager of the San Diego Padres of the Pacific Coast League after his retirement from the game as well. As we know, there were more to their careers both on and off the field than just being a broadcaster.
Just rediculous that I even had to do that isn’t it?
Really it would have been better to ban the word Oakland as it would have stopped both sides from bringing up the same crap that forments that subject in the first place….
They couldn’t use Oakland as part of Sandy’s success and we would have no need to mention BR at all then!
Hi Metsie,
Agreed. It is a shame. And an insult to the memory of Bill Rigney by putting him down by stating his credentials was that of being a broadcaster after being a player, manager, scout and assistant to the team owner for more than half a century. Especially with words like this said about him from
Art Howe:
“We loved to have him around,. He had so much knowledge. He was such a great baseball guy. He’s seen everything that can happen in this game. He always had good, sound advice. You would always come out feeling good about things after you talked with him.”
Tony LaRussa:
“He was great with people at all levels of the organization, from the front office to those of us in uniform,. I knew I could rely on his knowledge and his honesty. You need to hear the truth, but you don’t always get it. You did with him. He was a very smart man.”
And, of course, there was Sandy Alderson:
“When you talk about people who have contributed to our success, you have to single out Bill Rigney. His contributions have been enormous. He has been involved in every one of our player acquisitions since I came here in 1982. I’ve watched 600 or 700 games with Bill, and it’s been an education.”
It has also been said that he was only a consultant to Sandy and the ownership. Fine, but the American Heritage College Dictionary describes consultant as
“One that gives expert or professional advice”.
And if Sandy needed somebody to consult with, the word “consult” is defined as
“to seek advice or information”.
So Sandy had someone with that background who he said was ” involved in every one of our player acquisitions since I came here in 1982″. And that must have been an enormous asset for Sandy to add: “His contributions have been enormous.”
No, those aren’t words reserved for somebody who was basicly just a broadcaster and not on any higher level of the corporate chain.
Downplaying the influence of one to give credit to another happens every day in corporate america and government….
You know like Al Gore invented the Internet and Obama got and killed OBL….
I think the guys who invented TCP/IP and those guys from seal team six had a bit more to do with it yet we keep hearing those folks take credit for it don’t we?
Same is true here with Sandy…
It’s only important to do that for these guys because it’s the only success on Sandy’s resume and without it all you have left is the losingest GM in baseball history!
Hi Metsie,
And, of course, to make a counterpoint, we should soon expect for me
1) to be called a liar about what Art Howe said
2) to be accused of making up things that LaRussa Said
3) to have exaggerated BR’s long career in baseball
4) to have taken Sandy Alderson’s words out of context
5) to falsifying the meaning of “consultant” and “consult”
6) and having an agenda to make it BR appear more the baseball mind that Sandy.
Now, whatever I might have been saying about Sandy Alderson, I just don’t understand what more the man has to say for BR to get the credit he deserves. He gives this due praise to BR, never denied he knew nothing about the game professionally when being appointed general manage and that for him, BR was an education.
There is a difference between having the position to authorize final approval of player moves and being the one who put those moves together. If one wants to contend that after Rigney went into semi-retirement, Sandy began to rely more on his own accumulated knowledge through the use of advanced statistical analysis, injected that throughout the organization and selected people to work under him who approached the game in the same manner, that is fine with me. In fact, I think that is exactly what happened and what we are seeing now with the Mets.
Of course, one could also still take the opposite stance and present the reasons for it but few are going to take seriously anything said if it is speaking from the sewer. And as I mentioned, expect the Lone Ranger to ride again.
The reaction to you is about the same you could expect telling a kid Santa doesn’t exist at this time of year….
They simply don’t want to hear the truth so whoever is telling them the truth must be a liar!
“It’s only important to do that for these guys because it’s the only success on Sandy’s resume and without it all you have left is the losingest GM in baseball history!”
Who are “these guys”? Al Gore? Osama bin Laden? What the hell is wrong with you people?
You don’t like Alderson. Fine. Can folks stick to a frame of reference in which to discuss facts without blowing the discussion up beyond all recognition?
Guys likeyou and Fonzie who think Sandy is a Great GM based on something you think he he did in 1989!
And I wrote that when? Where?
If you’d relax and deal with people as they present themselves and not attack phantom straw men in your head, you’d realize there *are* no guys like me.
Andrew also has Gerry Hunsicker as a asst GM. Gerry is one of the best old school talent evaluators in the game.
We have Paul Depo + JP
now u know why we had ( and still have ) Brad Eamus in our system
There are hundreds and hundreds of players in the system. To draw a broad conclusion based one player is silly.
And they don’t “still” have Emaus (not “Eamus”) in the system. We have him in the system again. As a Rule V draftee, the team had to offer him to back to Toronto when they wanted to farm him out, and he was reclaimed.
During last season, he was signed as a minor league free agent to fill a roster spot. Every team has such players. Some have more than others. In bunches, they’re not pretty, but alone they represent nothing.
Eamus was drafted by JP in Toronto…then followed JP over to NY…then miraculously was our starting 2B in 2011 for opening day…
if ur gonna tell me that wasnt politics i have a bridge to sell u
I don’t know what you’re talking about. I told you no such thing. I clarified Emaus’ status. And I contended that to draw conclusions about the skills of the team’s evaluators based on a sample size of one is silly.
you dont have to tell me bra inning that opening day start was politics…its pretty evident…
i mean sandy’s son bryce gets a job at oakland b/c he was always around the team as a kid…
then when he gets canned…guess who picks him up?
His Dad Sandy…
the ny mets = nepotism, cronyism, bullsh*tism
when omar was here, every one of his signings/hires was put under a microscope for this stuff…esp if the last name was lopez or gomez…
when its sandy, he and his boys get a pass
same ol same ol
Hi just,
That nepotism was morally reprehensible in lieu of it coming shortly after Sandy fired 15 employees, including those who worked for many years in the ticket office, due to downsizing. How could one in all good conscience do such an act after turning the lives of these people upside down? Just another move representative of the indifference of the executives who run this organization.
I believe his son was still employed as a scout in Oakland at the time as well.
Damaja:
“i mean sandy’s son bryce gets a job at oakland b/c he was always around the team as a kid…then when he gets canned…guess who picks him up? His Dad Sandy…”
Do you have evidence that Bryn Alderson was fired?
You realize Bryn was the Scouting Coordinator for the A’s and worked heavily on the 2006 amateur draft for Oakland? Scouted Cahill, Bailey, and Mike Leake
http://athletics.scout.com/2/539814.html
He may have been I do not know that but you say he was. Can you please provide evidence of your claim? Because Bryn Alderson was employed through the 2011 season with Oakland and then joined the Mets – so I’m curious when he got “canned”
Why would a scout coordinator take a demotion to join a team in financial trouble and possibly in danger of ownership losing their team ?
you dont think there is nepotism involved here??
LMAO
ok
I guess Jeff Wilpon is COO because of his incredible business and baseball knowledge
There are worse things in the world than a n adult child to work in an organization an older relative or parent has a higher position in. It’s as old as the hills in life, in baseball, and with the Mets. I have no idea if Alderson Jr. has demonstrated a lack of baseball acumen or not.
I wouldn’t get too upset about it.
LOL Poor Jesse….
One day you will realize that the scouting coordinator isn’t really as important as you make it out to be….
Kind of the same as a Party Coodinator…He may make the suggestions on what to get but the folks he works for are the ones who say YES and NO!
Hi Metsie,
You are so right – one being a coordinator can make it appear that one is more important than he or she really is in the overall scheme of things.
And I say that even at the expense of my own self personally because my title is indeed “coordinator” as well.
Though I feel I do make an important contribution as part of the team, I also make no pretensions about the fact that others do the real vital foot work for our projects and that I provide the necessary administrative support to keep it all order and everyone in sync.
Meaning, I couldn’t do the job of those I coordinate. And that is fine with me for in all modesty, I do feel I am an excellent administrator (saying that so not to come across having a severe inferiority complex by putting myself down
) .
FYI Hunsicked is with LAD now not TB
wow…he just left several weeks ago….
too bad the wilpons burned that bridge already
Why not use Friedman as an example? Let’s wash out all this saber/financial BS for a minute.
Unlike Alderson, Friedman is willing to listen, feed the fans bullcrap, and execute when the time’s right (see the recent Myers trade). In THREE YEARS, Friedman turned the Rays from a joke to WS contenders. Under his watch, the Rays now have almost TWO full rotations worth of ML ready, above-average SP talent, something we can only WISH for. Since 2008, they have won 90+ games THREE times. The Mets haven’t been there in 6 years.
Hi Hitman,
That is why I said each has to be judged on his own credentials and bringing somebody else into the conversation is irrelevant.
Something written about fifty years ago distinguishingTommy Davis, Willie Davis and Willie Mays: “for Tommy is not Willie and Willie is not Mays”.
Why is it that so many Met fans can’t understand the situation? Here are the undeniable facts!
The Wilpon’s, who we would all like to see sell the team came oh so close to losing it!
Sandy Alderson was brought in to do what was necessary to keep a sinking ship afloat and he has done exactly that. While none of us wanted to lose Jose Reyes, and Carlos Beltran, doing so saved the team tons of money and Zack Wheeler who is supposedly a star in the making.
The exact numbers of yearly money losses have been greatly reduced so that the team was able to resign David Wright. Hopefully, R.A. Dickey will be resigned too but it is obvious that his age, the mystery of his special pitch and the fact that he has had only one special season is very questionable to other teams in terms of trade value.
Sandy has also said that despite the financial situation having improved that no significant additions can be made for 2013. He didn’t say that he was throwing in the towel on the 2013 season.and he can’t do that. Bottom line is that he has been doing the job he was hired for and the plan he has is to depend on his maturing starting pitchers and his core players to elevate the teams play until the finances get even better.
SO…..STOP THE WHINING, THE HATING, THE STUPIDITY.
SANDY WORKS FOR THE WILPON’S WHO HAVE MADE PLENTY OF MISTAKES BUT HAVE SPENT TONS OF MONEY OVER THE YEARS ALBEIT UNSUCCESSFUL IN BRINGING MORE FLAGS HOME.
YOU GUYS SCREAM WHEN THEY SPEND MONEY THAT YOU THINK IS FOOLISH,
YOU SCREAM WHEN THE MONEY RUNS OUT AND THEY DON’T THROW MONEY AROUND LIKE IN MONOPOLY.
AND ANYONE WHO WANT TO ROOT INSTEAD FOR THE TEAM ACROSS TOWN WAS NEVER A REAL MET FAN AT ALL
YOU THINK THAT MET FANS HAVE PROBLEMS? WAIT AND SEE WHILE THE STEINBRENNER BOYS NO LONGER SPEND ZILLIONS LIKE THEIR FATHER DID AND THE TEAM IS IN THE TOILET AS THEIR STARS NEED WHEELCHAIRS BECAUSE OF AGE.
“Stop the screaming” is a good message. I concur.
It would better expressed, I think, without the cap-lock on.
EDGY, AS MOST OF THE VETERAN READERSHIP HERE UNDERSTANDS MY CAPSLOCK USAGE IS A DISABILITY ACCOMODATION, NOT AN EMOTIONAL REFERENCE. HOPDFULLY THE CONTEXT OF MY HUMBLE POSITION IS NOT OBFISCATED BY UIPERCASE USAGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ACCOMODATION…’62
Glad to see
Glad to see you again. I always enjoyed your commentary here.
LISA, RIGHT BACK @ U SWEETIE
Alan and METS62FAN are two different folks, I gather.
I understand that’s how different folks roll, but I imagine in Alan’s case, the shift represented a tonal shift, rather than an accommodation, as it occurred halfway through a post.
EDGY I DON’T EVEN KNOW MANY ALANS EXCEPT MY WIFE’S COUSIN WHO’S A BONAFIDE ASSHAT AS THEY SAYTHESE DAYS…
UNFORTUNATELY, ABOUT 20 YRS AGIO A POST SURGICAL STROKE DENIED ME CONROL OVRE THE FINE MOTOR SKILLS IN MY LEFT HAND WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MY LONG ESTABLISHED PAROCHIAL SCHOOL EARLY EDUCATION MADE TYPING PROPER NOUNS IN LOWER CASE AN INTOLERABLE ANATHEMA AS WELL AS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO PROOF READ.
I ASK HUMBLY FOR EVERYONE’S KIND INDULGENCE OF MY IDIOSYNCRASY THANK YOU, NOW WHO THE HELL IS ALAN & WHY SHOULD I CARE? LMAO, ’62
Hi 62,
Please know many of us never thought you owed anybody an explanation as to why you had to post in that manner, especially because it was obvious that doing so was out of necessity and not to attack anyway.
So sorry that you suffered a stroke that left you in such condition. It happened with my Dad too. But glad that you are not letting it prevent you from still having what appears to be a very full life.
JOEY, NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE, I DON’T MIND ECAUSE THE YOUNG OFTEN MISTAKE PORTRAYAL & APPEARANCE FOR CONTEXT & CONTENT ANY ABILITY I HAVE AT EDUCATING THE MASSES TO EXAMINE & RESEARCH IS MERELY FULFILLING MY CURRENT POSITION IN LIFE…”ELDER SAGE”
PERHAPS I SHOULD CONSIDER M,AKING THAT MY NEW POSTING MONIKER OR ALTER EGO. MAYBE NOT IF THEY CONSIDER ME HERBAL. WHATEVER,…
LMAO, OVER & OVER
You certainly owe me no explanation, but thanks just the same.
POR NADA…
I’ll just say that FONTS have no volume whatsoever they all put out the same 0 DB levels!
So if you hear screaming in your head the solution is to see a shrink not take to task posters who used caps to make a statement.
I also suggest that before you take any poster to task for what he posts you owe it to yourself to be around for awhile and get to know them before you assume you have the right to tell them how to post because they may have the respect of the long time users here you will not if you complain about things that should mnot matter because you didn’t like the manner of the post and totally ignored the MEAT and POINT of the post!
Trade Santana, we have not received 200 inngings out of him yet. resign R A Dickey we got over 200+ inngings out of him last year and he won + 25% of our wins last year.
I agree with you on Santana….
I’m just not sure how good he has to be before the deadline to convince someone to trade for him…
If he had been good in all his starts last year and NOT thrown that No Hitter we might have been able to trade him at the last deadline…
In Hindsight as much as I agree with letting him finish the NONO Terry’s first instincts were right and if he had taken him out he might not have had the issues after he did and we might have been able to get someone to pay most of that 25 Mil he is owed this year…
Coulda Shoulda woulda at this point.
Just hope he comes out this season hot as a pistol and then sell him off at the deadline to get some kids or a player who can help the rest of the Pitchers win games with increased run support.
Using Santana’s no-hitter as the reason for his calapse this season just goes to show how people just spew out what they hear from the media and other people without really knowing what the hell is going on for themselves.
Fact of the matter is Johan’s downward spiral didn’t start till his ankle injury against Chicago on July 6. Look it up. If you wanna say it affected his next start against the Yankees in Yankee Stadium, then fine. That would be understandable. But he didn’t fair too well in his other two starts in that stadium either.
After that Yankee start, in the rest of his starts in June, he gave up 18 hits and six runs in those four starts COMBINED.
In the five starts after his injury, including the start in which he was injured, he gave up 43 hits and 33 runs.
The media loves to point out his ERA after the no-hitter, which doesn’t tell the story. It is their job to make stories so they have something to write about, and saying Johan threw 134 pitches in a game and then sucked after is just something juicy to write about. It’s inaccurate.
I wish people would stop just regurgitating what they hear. I don’t expect anything less from you though, Metsie.
Yeah his bad start vs the Yakees were due to an ankle injury sufferred weeks later right…THATS the kind of smart people we should be listening to around here….
Get a clue CB, Maybe Walmart has one for sale!
what? what the hell are you talking about?
“If you wanna say it affected his next start against the Yankees in Yankee Stadium, then fine.”
it being, the no-hitter.
Hi CB,
If I remember correctly, wasn’t that poor performance his next start at the Stadium attributed to his timing being off? The Mets were so worried about the combined high pitch count and arm strain from the no-hitter that they pushed back his next start for one full week?
I also recall R.A. not wanting his next start to be rescheduled which would have allowed Johann to pitch a bit sooner because he too didn’t want his pitching rhythm thrown off.
Was it necessary to take such extreme precautions with Santana that it got to the point he was just too rusty his next time out? Wouldn’t blame the Met think tank on this one because over-pampering pitching arms is the mindset prevalent in baseball in general. We were all afraid Terry was going to take him out after the seventh or eighth inning, remember? Nolan Ryan would have no part of that.
LOL you got confused did you? Surprise to no one here the supposed know it all got confused.
You are the one making up crap dismissing his ERA and starts before the ankle…
He didn’t go more than 6 innings in those starts until the Dodger game!That was 5 games after! His only scoreless game was vs the Baltimore (at the time) horrid offense who needed to hit HRs but couldn’t in CitiField
And after the Dodger game he never went more than 5 innings…
SO yes the ankle he got worse from the suck he was after the NONO…
He was never the pitcher he was before the NoNo…
After the Dodger start was the ankle injury you nut job. so of course he didn’t pitch more than five innings. this is what i am saying. And him not pitching more than six innings until the Dodger start was probably more a result of TC pulling him as precaution I would say.
Metsie, his ERA after the Yankee start and before the ankle start was 2.16.
“He was never the pitcher he was before the NoNo…”
False.
Your the one who confused himself and I’m the nutjob…
So you don’t see the decline after the NONO just the MASSIVE SUCK after the ankle…
Guess you idiots see what you want to see!
Like that great Job the SAND PEOPLE think Sandy is doing here…
could very well be. could be a combination of both. I would think after 134 pitches though, the extra rest could only be beneficial.
But his July and August certainly weren’t because of the no-hitter.
the new york mets will always be a shame for national league baseball fans in the city..they ought to be sold to baseball people , instead of being own by scammers.their years are numbered.
Who or what are “baseball people”?
Whatever your opinion of Jeff and Fred Wilpon, I imagine they have as much personal history in the game as any principle owners this side of Nolan Ryan.
METSIE, FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON “THE REPLY” BUTTON ON YOUR COMMENT IN THE THREAD IS NON-RESPONSIVE; HOWEVER, UNDAUNTED & DETERMINED TO REPLY, I’VE COPIED & PASTED THE FINAL SALIEENT PARAGRAPHS HERE:
___________________________________________________________________________
…THEN the Wilpons will be affected and forced to sell the team and Sandy becomes a hero in NYC for solving the problems of this team…
He’s not doing that he is going along with what he knows is bad or worse agres with them….
In either case he is the problem more than the Wilpons because he is playing the role of mask and scapegoat if what everyone wants to believe is true!
My feeling is if you wish to ruin your company and tell me /Force me to do it, I will leave and work for someone interested in doing a GOOD job and keep my personal integrity so I can get the NEXT job!
___________________________________________________________________________
METSIE, KEPING IN MIND YOUR PROCLAIMED HISTORY OF HAVING FOLLOWED THISADVICE YOURSELF ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS.
I MUST REMIND U OF HOW MUCH “GROUP-THINK” OCCURS AMONG THE 30 TEAMS, EACH OF WHICH HAS 1 GM POSITION MEANING AS SOON AS ALDERSON WERE TO ISSUE YOUR PROPOSED PROCLAIMATION, ASSUMABLE IN HIS RESIGNATION LETTER, THE 29 OTHER TEAMS’ IMMEDIATELY BRAND HIM AS A “TRAITOR” PRIMARILY BECAUSE NO OTHRE OWNER WOULD RISK HAVING SUCH A LOOSE CANNON ON THEIR PAYROLL.
U MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THE NY FAN PERSPECTIVE OF “DESERVING” CHAMPIONSHIOPS SIMPLY BY BEING IN NYC IS CONSIDED A HUGE JOKE THROUGHOUT THE SPORTS INDUSTRY LOCATED ANYWHERE ELSE. FANS OUTSIDE NYC WILL HAPILY STATE THE HOPE FOR, WISH FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP YET NOT ONE OTHER IS LIKELY TO USE THE WORD ‘DEMAND’ NOT IN ST LOUIS, KANSAS CITY, OAKLAND, LOS ANGELES/ANAHEIM, NOT EVEN BOSTON. NO, MY RIEND SIMPLY BECAUSE U ARE A FAN LIVING IN NY DOES NOT GUARANTEE U ANY TROPHIES OR JEWELRY.
THOSE SAME EMPLOYERS LOKELY FEEL THE WILPONS ARE PRACTICING SANITY AROUND A STABKLE STEP BY STEP REBUILDING PLAN EACH OF THEM ENDURED AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER MANY OF WHICH FAILED, YET THEWY ARE LIKELY PROUD THEY NEVER PANICED INTO THE QUICKSAND THAT IS HE “QUICK-FIX OVER SPENDING OF UNEARNED FUTURE INCOME. NO, MY FRIEND WHEREAS YOUHAVE PERSONALLY VINDIVCATED YOUR PERSONAL INTEGRITY U MUST CONSIDER YOUR POSITION NEVER, FOR THE MOST PARET REC’D NEIGHBORHOOD LET ALONE NATIONAL PRESS FIXATION.
I VERY MUCH DOUBT ALDERSON IS PREPARED TO ETUIRE PREMANENTLY AS HESTILL NEEDS TO SUPPLY HIS DOG WITGH KIBBLES. A GM WHO EXPOSES/BETRAYS HIS OWNERS IS A PARIAH AMONG ALL OWNERS & ITS NOT LIKE THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF OPENINGS TO CHOOSE FROM.
IF ABSOLUTE TRUTH BE TOKLD LITTLE OF WHART WE SPECULATE & COMPLAIN ABOUT HERE VIS-AVIS INCOMPETANT OWNERSHIP IS A SECRET AMONG THE 29 OTHER MEMBERS OF THE MLB OWNERSHIP CLUB AND MORE THAN LIKELY THEIR POSITION IS THAT ALDERSON SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THAN TO ACCEPT WILPON MONEY
IT SHOULD BE NOTEWORTHY THAT IN AN INDUSTRY RENOWNED FOR RETREADING, RECYCLING EXPERIENCED MNGT EMPLOYEES THAT WHILE CERTAIN FORMER EMPLOYEES OF OTHER TEAMS ie BOSOX RELATIVLY RELOCATE IN A PARALELL MOVE TO OTHERCLUBS WHHILE BEING A NYM MNGT EMPLOYEE SEEMS TO BE THE LAST STOP FOR MOST IN THEIR BASEBALL EMPLOYMENT CURVE PHILLIPS,DUQUETTE, MINAYA, HOWE, RANDOLPH, MANUEL IF NOT FOR ANALYST MEDIA OSITIONS THEIR OVERALL CAREERS WERE PRONOUNCED DOA.
Well 62 what you say has truth to it but in the end I would rather ruin my career for the sake of PERSONAL INTEGRITY than lose it for being a LOSER stooge that does the wrong thing even when he knows it was wrong merely because he followed orders.
METSIE, U NEED TO STOP THINKING LIKE A FAN. REMEMBER ALDERSON PROBABLY PAID ZERO ATTENTION TO METS PRIOR TO JOB DISCUSSION INITIATED BY SELIG
FOR AL WE KNOW ALDERSON IS DOUING WHAT HE THINKS IS THE BESTWAY TO BUILD THIS OPERATION, ASPECIFIC TIMEFRAME FOR WINNING ANYTHING HAS MOST LIKELY NEVER CCURRED TO HIM, HIS HONEST POSITION IS MOST LIKELY IT WIL TAKE AS LONG AS IT TAKES. HE IS NOT A NYer & MOST LIKELY HAS BEEN ONE OF THOSE WHO HAVE SVOFFED @ NYers BELIEF THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ANYTHING. ALL OF WHAT I SAY MIOST LIKELY EQUALY APPLIES TO DiPODESTA & RICCIARDI. I’VE SEEN NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. HELL, DiPODESTA DOESN’T EVEN LIVE HERE; BUT IN SAN DIEGO WHERE NY BACKPAGES ARE MERELY RUMORED TO EXIST.
Well remember something here 62…This discussion is based on the assumption that Alderson is being forced to do these things by the WIlpons…..
If he thinks what he is doing is right then he isn’t being forced he is merely complicit!
And deserves the blame.