And you even hold up another example of the problem, Lucas Duda. Someone with one tool, power, that gets offset by his deficiencies (granted, I think Duda has underrated strike zone control). Guys like him and Tejada and Murphy and Kirk and Gee are found in every farm system. They aren’t some hidden jewels. Are they valuable and good role players? Sure. But, farm systems are generally graded on their star power.

Minaya absolutely improved the farm while here. But that was a low bar and he just didn’t do enough. Remember, when he came here, he told us his plan was to get young players and build around speed and defense. I am sure Fred’s cronyism and Jeffy’s interference hurt him a lot, but whose fault it is doesn’t change the fact that the farm was still in the bottom when he left.

And I read all the same stuff around here you do. And I read other team’s sites as well. You should try that. It gives perspective in just how the team and organization is viewed and ranked. And then put your constantly repeated statements into context with those.

What are you waiting for? Them all to make the All Star game before you build around those kids?

Did the Yankees wait until Jeter Posada and Rivera had 4 years under thier belt before they filled the spots around them?

Or did they come in 95 and filled whats left in FA and start the 18 years of playoffs from the get go?

One Power RH Hitting OFer would change this team from Not till 2016 to GOOD SHIT RIGHT NOW!

Even without d’Arnaud trade and keeping Dickey….

What did those signings bring?
A Playoff appearance….Two more seasons where September was not just a month to look at what we might have to start next year because the regulars couldn’t compete…

Thats what it got us!

You talk about CORE well MISSION ACCOMPLISHED in fact MOST of it was here even before Sandy picked up his phone and made his first trade….

And those guys he traded for the most part could have made last year worth watching past July and getting someone AS GOOD as them could make July not the end of our 2013 season…
Because at some time you have to STOP worrying about how many kids you might have 4 years from now and play the ones that are ALREADY HERE and having their youthful years WASTED while we improve the Minor leagues at the expense of the MLB roster!

Perhaps it is a good thing to build a solid foundation(Ike, Wright, Tejada, Harvey, Niese, Gee and perhaps Wheeler and D’Arnaud) and build from there?

To me, that’s the only way to be competative year after year.

Those FA signings, what did they bring the last years?

Jeez what did you think the Beltran trade was then?
Curing Cancer?

Sandy Alderson is a total idiot who has no interest in winning but only is awaiting Bud Seligs resignation. He´s asking for the moon for Dickey – what a moron, no team will trade with the Mets with asking prices like these. He gets the moon and a couple of comets for Dickey – duh, how did he dare to trade the NL Cy Young award winner ? How could he ruin a run in 2013 that could have been so feasible by merely signing Shawn Marcum, BJ Howell, Michael Bourn, Cody Ross and AJ Pierzinsky to free agent contracts and trading Jon Niese & Zach Wheeler for Justin Upton ? Budget ? Schmudget ? Why doesn´t Alderson convince the Wilponzi owners that this is a large market ?
And that after ruining our great run in 2011 where we were only a few games out of the Wild Card at the All Star break ? What does Trollderson do ? Give away our great closer K-Rod for nothing just to save the Wilpons from an insolvency ? Didn´t he think about the fans ? And how did he trade an All Star Beltran for a prospect in A-ball. Anyone could have done that – Beltran did have two more months on his contract ! And Reyes – he should have given Reyes what he wanted. Screw the owners and their tight budgets ! And look at those terrible drafts ! Most of the picks are still in A-ball or even Rookie ball. What we need is WINZ NOW !
That worked so well in the past. Oh wait. Nah, it was just bad luck. According to Sports Illustrated, the Mets should have won the 2009 World Series. See – that´s how you build a winner….

Some of that loan was recently re-financed. One point of interest is that the financial found the Mets too much of a financial risk so the re-financing was negotiated through SNY instead. If anything, this is an indication of how unstable the Mets financial future is projected to be.

So they can payback the loans in lesser amounts as you said with the overall debt actually increasing but I don’t see how that will allow them to re-invest in the team.

They received 68 million from SNY last year which is really not that much considering the amount of Money the Dodgers and the Angels just received in their TV deals. And while ownership can hold off by having as low a payroll as possible the next few years, if any of these guys work out they will have to start paying them. The alternative for the Mets is to re-finance some of their debt, but that means they have to prolong making yearly debt payments which in turn means keeping the salary low. Whether people want to admit it or not, this financial mess is not going away in the next 2-3 years, the debt and the interest on the debt will only make things worse.

Either they got it right and MADE it bad by trading a Cy Young Pitcher to play his position, Or they were wrong in the first place about how good he is or CHANGED their mind since then….

No matter how you want to slice it Plawlecki is what we got for letting Reyes go which means WASTED, Either the Pick or what we thought we were going to get for Reyes….

WASTED PICKS is the problem is it not?
Does it matter if it was wasted because you picked stupid or that you made another move that made the pick stupid in hind sight?

In BOTH cases it’s a wasted pick….

And this discussion started about you taking to task a poster for saying what the organization your touting seems to agree with, that Plawlecki was not good enough to wait for and they had to mortgage yet another GREAT PLAYER to fill that spot!

Your catcher position cost you an All Star Batting Champ Leadoff man and a Cy Young Pitcher to fill it….
And could any Catcher even a Piazza really make up for all of that by his performance?

Thats the issue here, Plawlecki might be fine, d’Arnaud might be great but considering the price paid to get them both it doesn’t balance! Especially since you can only play ONE of them….

Change many to all and you’re right. I’m not coming up with this, some website said that 30 major league front office types were asked what they think of the deal and all 30 of them said it was a good deal. Maybe amazin avenue…

Metsie-

I didn’t suggest any such thing. And if you took it that way then we have a misunderstanding.

We took Plaw because we had an obvious need at catcher. Plaw was and still is very highly rated by many scouts. We had no idea that d’Arnaud, who has been touted as not just the best catcher to come along in some time but possibly the best position prospect period, would be available to us. And he is available to us right now, not in a couple years like Plaw might be.

Alderson has been signaling since the end of the season that he was likely to trade Dickey but he wanted a difference maker for him. When Toronto ponied up not one but two potential difference makers including a catcher, done deal.

You seem to think that because we got Plaw and then d’Arnoud Plaw has no value. Thats ridiculous. He might serve as a backup to d’Arnaud someday. He might replace d’Arnaud if he gets hurt. Or he might be used as a trading partner to fill another need.

And no, for the 1 millionth time, d’Arnaud is not injured. He had a tear in his posterior cruciate that didn’t even require surgery and he was ready for winter ball. Dickey had offseason surgery in October, is he injured? Stop saying silly things to try and make your point.

There’s a reason lots of people are positive about the deal including many major league execs and talent evaluators. It is potentially a really good deal for the Mets. Note the word potentially. We won’t know till it all plays out.

We got 3 catchers, all with major league talent and one who is potentially elite and one who will replace Thole on opening day and even with his weak offense Buck is an upgrade over Thole, we got a OF with potential down the road and we got a consensus middle to top of the order starting pitcher for Reyes and Dickey. The only player over 23 is Buck and he is a short term solution but a valuable one.

BTW, Tejada had a really solid year replacing Reyes last year. He certainly doesn’t have Reyes talent and but he is a very serviceable SS and had a good offensive year and only cost us $500k vs Reyes $10M. He also didn’t get traded last year. Reyes did.

End Result You traded Reyes and Dickey to get Plawlecki, and injury plagued d”arnaud and an A Ball pitcher.

A Batting champ and Cy Young winner to get two catchers and a pitcher….

And everyone is crowing about how great it all was…..
ranking them more for thier newness than anything they have actually done compared to others in our system….

As for the reply issue it doesn’t allow reply past third level indent probably due to if it let it the comments would no longer fit the Site layout….Just reply to the post above it and it will show up behind all the rest or feel free to make a new reply chain by making a new post I’ll find it…

Bet he only offered you the hourly minimum wage and no fringe-benefits or paid holidays!

These reply buttons don’t always work for me so I will leave this here.

Do I think that if the Mets absolutely knew for a certainty that they were going to get d’Arnaud they would have drafted Plaw? Of course not. Certainly not where they did. But are you going to tell me if they hadn’t gotten a catcher and had to start the year with the dynamic duo of Thole and Nickeas you wouldn’t have been pitching a fit?

So now the Mets have catching depth whereas a year ago they were in deep doo doo at catcher. They can either keep it in case of injury or performance issues or trade one to a team who has a player the Mets need like a right handed power hitting OF. And so it goes.

Oh and your wrong about moneyball never winning the World Series. When the Red Sox couldn’t pry Billy Beane from the A’s they brought in Theo Epstein, a moneyball disciple, and even hired Bill James. And the rest, is history.

Still waiting on that Cy Young guarantee.

We are doing what they do and what is bad about that is we don’t have to we actually HAVE the market to not limit ourselves like that yet thats what we are doing….

We could havemade 2013 a meaningful season by merely increasing Payroll to 125 Mil and signing one of the power hitting OFers who were available….

We did not do that we kept with the Pirate ways…

You may not want to believe it but thats what we are doing….
Been doing it since Sandy got here…
At the time of every move made look at the guy moved….
Usually the BEST at what he did for our team and the problem is only Two of those deals actually resulted in getting Kids worth a damn….

So we are operating under the same Strategy as the Pirates we just SUCK at implementing it!

How long ago we got them
Who Picked them
And as I said based on how they have NOT disproven themselves as opposed to PROVEN themselves which you admitted to when you said Plawlecki has done nothing to disprove what he did that got him picked in the first place….

Yet he hasn’t done anything to say he is actually better than any other kid on the team, just that he hasn’t disappointed yet….

Thats what these lists seem to do….
We took him so we THINK he is good…How good he is ranked is based on how much he hasn’t changed my mind not based on what he has actually accomplished while we had him.

Hmmmm…that doesn’t seem to be a bit of a duality to you?

Plawlecki did nothing to dispute his old numbers but then again he did nothing to CONFIRM those numbers either did he?

What about a guy like Flores?
Why is Snydergard put ahead of him on this “Prospect List” hmmm?
Why isn’t Familia on there he has much more resume and as a result is much more likely to make the MLB than Snydergard…..
What Criteria makes him LESS than Snydergard and his SHORT sample size?

Seems to me that Short Sample always points to good (provided Sandy made the pick) but guys like Familia and Flores are nothing DESPITE a pretty good resume and long sample all because the guy who picked them was named Omar and that knocks them down below anyone picked by Sandy on the list…..

Even if they have done nothing but play one short season with little to show during it.