2
2012
Both Sides Not Even Close On A Dickey Deal
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Updated on 12/2 by Joe D. at 4:45 PM
Jim Bowden of ESPN XM tweets that despite RA Dickey describing progress in negotiations…a source involved in negotiations says both sides aren’t even close to a deal
Updated on 12/2 by Joe D. at 2:45 PM
Danny Knobler of CBS Sports, reported that R.A. Dickey has just arrived at the Winter Meetings. Dickey, who lives in Nashville, has repeatedly said he would attempt to sit in directly on negotiations with the Mets front office.
Dickey spoke to reporters in the lobby about possibility he gets he traded and said, “I’m not concerned. I know it’s a possibility, but I’m not concerned. I love being a Met.”
This will be very interesting…
Dickey is obviously very tenacious regarding his desire to remain with the Mets, but does Sandy Alderson feel the same way?
We’ll soon find out….
Updated on 12/1 by Joe D. at 8:45 PM
According to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reports that the Mets have fielded six or seven calls from teams that would like to meet at the Winter Meetings and discuss trading for R.A. Dickey. Heyman also says that Sandy Alderson has been given clearance to pursue trading Dickey.
The Mets and Dickey have been trying to work out a contract extension for two months, but it appears general manager Sandy Alderson has the go-ahead now to more seriously consider trade alternatives for the team’s ace and 2012 National League Cy Young winner. The Mets reportedly increased their contract offer to Dickey recently, but it appears the trade meetings haven’t been canceled to this point.
The Mets will want a catcher and outfield help in any trade for Dickey, says Heyman, and the Royals are one team that has significant interest in Dickey. However they will not trade their top prospect Will Myers in any deal for a starter.
The Pirates, Dodgers, Angels, Rangers and Nationals are among the other teams in the market for a starting pitcher.
Dickey has said that if a new extension isn’t signed by the Winter Meetings, he intends to personally sit in on negotiations if that’s what it takes.
I honestly don’t understand where this speculation about Royals’ prospect Wil Myers for Dickey is coming from on MetsBlog. Why would they do that?
Myers, 21, belted 37 home runs with 109 RBIs and a .314 average this year combined between Triple-A and Double-A. The young righthanded slugger seems to have mastered Triple-A Omaha where he posted a .937 OPS in 439 plate appearances.
Additionally, Myers was named the Minor League Player of the Year by USA Today and Baseball America, and is the No. 3 ranked baseball prospect in the nation.
Right now, I’d say he is what Mike Trout was a year ago. I couldn’t imagine the Angels trading Mike Trout for a one year starting pitching rental who was 38, even if he was a Cy Young winner. Could you? This isn’t Wilmer Flores or Brandon Nimmo we’re talking about here. Myers is a blue chipper if there ever was one.
Original Post 12:30 PM
ESPN’s Buster Olney writes that the Mets have increased their offer to R.A. Dickey, but it’s unclear whether it’s close enough to what Dickey seeks in a two-year deal.
The Mets were stunned by Andy Pettitte’s one-year, $12 million deal, coming off a year in which he made 12 starts — and, in a strange way, Pettitte is a comparable for Dickey because of his age.
If Pettitte is getting $12 million now, what is Dickey’s market value after a season in which he won the Cy Young Award?
Quite the quandary the Mets find themselves in, no thanks to that Andy Pettitte deal.
I’m going to say that Dickey is probably looking for a three year, $30 million dollar deal. The deal would replace the $5 million option the Mets exercised in early November.
It’s been reported that he would take a two-year deal, but that was on top of the option and would not kick in until 2014. Pretty sure that the Mets will sign him, and that 3/30 will be close to what it winds up being.
Hey, I predicted 8/140 for Wright back in September, and 8/138 is close enough… It figures I wasn’t around to toot my own horn on the day the news broke, so this will have to do. Toot, toot… 
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The Yankees can’t dictate the market. That would screw everyone over.
Wouldn’t be the first time the Yankees drove up the market. One more reason for me to hate them.
exactly how I feel.
how the hell does Andy sign for $12 million this season and only signed for an incentive filled deal of $2.5 million last season. he only made 12 starts!!!!!
What i love about their fans is that they dont count every penny their team spends…
they just wanna win…
I would much rather win and not care about the budget than care about the budget and not win ( thats us )
Spot on,
These fans here, especially the younger ones know more about these ballplayer’s contracts and teams budgets than baseball in and of itself and what it takes to win. They know more about new statistics than than the nuances of baseball itself and it’s the little things more often than not that can tell you how good a team is coached.
That stuff doesn’t interest them anymore and you also notice that emphasis on fundamentals is at the worst in the bigs that i’ve ever seen it before.
Hilariously, they all seem to chime in on the “intangibles” whenever there is a player they do or dont want but cant statistically explain why
Hi Bayonne,
Excellent! Exactly what many of us feel. Contracts are business deals in which lucrative offers are made with the understanding by the owners that they most likely would create more in profit for them in return. The contract agreement is about the business aspect of baseball and how it will yield a healthy return of an investment and nothing more.
Players are pursued by clubs that could afford them based on how they could help the team in victories and, in the case of some, the extra drawing power having a marquee name could yield. But never is the agreed upon contract figure and length based based upon WAR or money ball. That is for the fantasy leaguers. The final contract offer is based on what the player can – or cannot – command in the open market and how much a club can afford to spend. Value in an individual’s worth based on his stats is only an illusion.
Sad but true. Not much we can do about it because that’s just the way it is when you have owners who care more about the budget than they do winning. The team is a reflection of the owners and the fans react to that. Would we be smarter and better Mets fans by saying we need Josh Hamilton even though there’s no chance in hell? No. We operate under the reality that we know exists with this team.
How about those fans that were crying when Kelvin Escobar got a 1 mil contract…or Alex Cora’s whopping 2 mil per year…..Met fans have been doing this crap for a LONG time…
I dont see Nationals fans complaining about Ching Ming Wong being signed for 2 years straight and getting nothing out of him
or Tampa Bay fans complaining about Pat Burrell’s 26 mil deal….which they ate half of and released him…where he went to SF and helped them win a WS
if Tampa fans can live with that….why is it that Met fans act like they are playing Monopoly during the off-season
…just sayin….
They will since the Yankees are going to face austerity starting next off season. Presently, they have $100M committed to 2014 while needing to replace CF, 2B (assuming Cano isnt resigned which he will be to the tune of $25M a year), 3/5 starting pitching, a closer, at least 2 BP pitchers, and perhaps a SS. And that doesnt take into account that they havent figured out the RD and C for this year.
Yankee fans will learn very quickly what the luxury tax threshold requirements are.
Ha!!
I seriously don’t think Yankee fans are at their homes thinking about the “Luxury Tax Threshold Requirements”.
They’re at home wondering what players the organization will try to sign or trade for in order to try and win the World Series in 2013. They are not squirming about any luxury tax threshold requirement. Maybe if this the Word Series of tax season they might.
Probably not but then again most Yankee fans know spend spend spend. That is done. Notice how the contracts signed are 1 year deals. Hal said they will be under the l.t. treshold….he is not going to sacrifice $40M or more in lost revenues from the t.v. contract, l.t. penalties, and increased revenue sharing.
I’ve got a hunch that the Mets fly into Nashville with both Dickey and Wright sewn up. That would totally get rid of any distractions and Alderson’s team can focus on what needs to be done. Getting Wright and Dickey situations resolved before the Winter Meetings is huge.
I think that the Wright deal was all on Jeff Wilpon, but whatever happens to Dickey is all Alderson. Honestly, I’d be happy whether we kept him or traded him for a nice haul. Either way it’s good for us.
3 years..$30m…just make the deal. He just won the Cy Young for God’s sake…and he throws a knuckle ball at 85mph. i mean…what am I missing here?
its not the question if he is worth the 30Millions for 3 years . I do believe he could give us 2 more years with 15+ wins . BUT the question is what can we get for him ? maybe ( or better it has to be ) players we desperately need AND are with us for years to come . No brainer about if he is worth the money( I love RA ) but still i´m saying Trade the hell out of him
Extending Dickey before you shop his value around at the winter meetings would be very SHORT-SIGHTED and a big mistake by this FO….
What kind of freaking rebuild is this when all im hearing is the team extending contracts to players in their 30′s where are all the youngsters that they are trading for…..huh??? Wheeler and………………………………………………………………
If Dickey’s willing to accept 3yr/30m, then Mets should give it to him. I don’t think he should be traded, as he could be an anchor to what will be a very young and talented pitching staff. He could take a lot of pressure off the youngins’ until they fully acclimate to MLB.
I think Andy Pettitte’s deal with the Yankees is not comparable to RA Dickey’s contractual situation. Both are valued and revered by their respective organizations, but their road to the current market has been significantly different. Apples & Oranges.
Man, I’ll tell ya… If SA could persuade Zach Greinke to come aboard with a back-loaded contract, we could start winning this year…
Greinke, Dickey, Harvey, Niese & Santana/Wheeler. That’s a pretty sick rotation. If you’re only good as tomorrow’s starting pitcher, then the Mets would be pretty damn good AND it would hearken back to the days of Seaver, Kooseman, Matlack & Co. Imagine facing the Mets in a 4-game series?
Heck, Sandy could “jump the route” and bring back Pagan, sign Ludwick, both to back-loaded contracts & allow team to gel in 2013, with the expectation of a full-blown surge in 2014.
It’s ok to dream, no?
cf – Pagan
2b – Murphy
3b – Wright
1b – Davis
lf – Ludwick
rf – Duda
c – Flores/Thole
ss – Tejada
Starters: Grienke, Dickey, Harvey, Niese & Santana/Wheeler
Relief: Francisco, Parnell, Familia, Mejia, Edgin, Carson & Gee
Bench: Jesus Flores/Thole, Baxter, Valdespin, Cedeno, Rottino
To pull this together, we’d have to get concessions from Santana to defer money owed from this season, as we did with Bay, and persuade Pagan, Ludwick & Geinke with their own contracts.
We’re within striking distance and I’d prefer this team grow from within its core. The only real newcomers would be Greinke & Ludwick, as Pagan and, to a lesser extent, Flores, are home grown.
I say “Just Do It!:
Greinke? I’d rather go for Sanchez when his demands come down.
Duda in RF? Please no.
Also, I hate the look of that pen. There’s so much good talent that could be added to our team via FA (Burnett, Lyon, Lannan, Gorzelanny, Wade, Adams, Uehara, Wilson, etc.)
That pen would blow 25 games and the defense woukd blow another.
The Mets would come in 4th with the best starting ERA and the most unearned runs against in baseball.
BTW, if Pagan wasn’t feasible or desirable, Victorino could buy in to what we’re doing.
I am very confident in Terry Collins to pull a winner together with this group, even though he does run like my grandmother when he trots to the mound for a pitching conference.
I know your grandmother – and let me tell you, unless they put a gurney under TC he ain’t running like your grandma.
I just read the Heyman update and no where does it say the Royals wouldn’t trade Myers. Where did that input come from, was it Hojo’s opinion?
I’ve heard that they like their current outfield and offense as a whole and would love an ace. Teams like the Royals don’t get Ace pitchers for 5 million. Dickey’s past three seasons have eclipsed anything any Royal pitcher has done since Grienke. And before him, there hasn’t been anything. They’ve just spent big bucks on Guthrie, and have a great lineup that every year gets more expensive for a team with limited funds.
If now isn’t the time to deal for a Cy Young winner, then what is for them? Ask their fans what they want. A winning team or Wil Myers?
In any case, if 6 teams are knocking at the mets door, Sandy better not sign RA until AFTER he’s heard every proposal.
No it’s my opinion, not HoJo’s. I posted the update and there is nothing to suggest the Royals would trade Myers for Dickey aside from rampant unfounded speculation. Even if they were to move him for a starter, the Red Sox would offer Jon Lester who is ten years younger than Dickey and would also kick in money. I just deleted a comment from you filled with vile profanity. Watch it.
It irks me when we overrate our players / prospects or underrate them and / or overestimate other teams’ players / prospects. i don’t have the latest on Lester’s health / velocity, etc., but he’s coming off a lousy season and plays 2013 @ 29 yrs old.
Meanwhile RA (whom i’d love to keep IF indeed the booty back aren’t plus-adds) plays 2013 @ 38 yrs old, just won the Cy Young, throws a (fast) knuckler, is as competitive and as good a guy as any team wants in their clubhouse, and, according to scuttlebut, has 6 – 7 teams interested. Also, RA would sign a deal with his ‘new’ team. He wouldn’t want the overhang going into 2013 with a ‘new’ club.
That said, KC is on the cusp of contending, even rarer than our Mets contending (!), comments on their website imply Myers is a chip in their pursuit of 1 more top-flight hurler, and has a stacked farm system (the benefit of top ten draft picks for years).
I would think that, given KC’s hot dreams steaming all-around their City, they would trade some nice pieces for RA–maybe Perez + Zimmer and / or maybe Odorizzi or a Fletcher, DeShields, Jr., or Bonafaci. Plus, why couldn’t we get creative and include Mejia or Familia and /or Fulmer and extract more chips from KC?
And then there’s ‘replacing’ Niese in the deal instead of Dickey and with Niese and Wheeler, Murphy, Mejia, et al., getting maybe Myers + Odorizzi + Zimmer +???
Why not dream (as T2Cat commented earlier i think).
“Where did that input come from, was it Hojo’s opinion?”
No, it wasnt Hojo’s opinion….Heyman said it when the 1st reports came out about KC’s interest in Dickey, below is what he said and the link…..
************************************************************************************************************
“While several young Royals players would work for the Mets, Kansas City has no interest in trading young catcher Salvador Perez and isn’t looking to trade top outfield prospect Wil Myers. The Royals would prefer to send the Mets a package of younger prospects in any Dickey deal.”
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/21189447/royals-have-talked-about-shields-lester-dickey-in-effort-to-trade-for-top-starter
Hey Leroy, thanks for my exclamation point.
lol….no prob i didnt even see ur reply at 1st i guess i took too long to respond
Victorino would be a perfect fit. He could be our new hot dog since the one he always complained about is no longer a met.
I hate Victorino almost as much as i hate Swisher, but honestly he’d be a good fit for us in CF. If his price isnt too high.
Victorino is a money ball player and a winner.
I think the deal Andy Pettite signed was very fair and don’t understand why the Mets would be shocked. Notwithstanding Andy’s incredible body of work and reputation for being one of the fiercest competitors when it comes to the big game he pitched quite well last year and was on his way to one of his better seasons if not for the injury.
The Yankees will be in the hunt and I would expect Andy Pettite to just pitch the same as he ever did. He’s a very, very smart pitcher and not a thrower and he knows how to work the batter and work the black. Obviously if he, like anybody else, doesn’t get hurt i fully expect he’ll throw a full season, win around 15 games or even more and be the same Andy Pettite he’s alway been and any lack of velocity on his fastball will be compensated more than well enough with his guile, the way he thinks on the mound, and the ability to raise his game when it matters the most.
A veteran like Andy Pettite would be gold in the Mets dugout not only for his talent but his presence around younger pitchers. The stories he can share about his experience in the most important games these players will ever play if they’re lucky.
12 million is very fair.
Probably because Pettitte has not made 12m or more since 2008.
He pitched 75 innings last year coming out of retirement/injury. 129 in 2010….
He’s worth a contract but he got more money to pitch at 41 than he did since he was 36.
That’s why they were shocked.
That’d be my guess…. nobody else was going to get Andy P. He was either a yankee or not… so to pay him that much is pretty desperate from NYY
Yankees guilty of the worst case of bidding against themselves I’ve ever seen with this deal. Just because you have money to burn it doesn’t mean you should actually burn it.
This.
I was shocked that Mariano Rivera and Pettite got that much, especially Rivera considering the type of injury he had last year
You’re shocked Mariano Rivera got 10 million? Really? That’s a bargain. The guy is the greatest reliever of all time, was on his way to another good season and should be just fine again next season. 10 million is about the amount you would need to “gamble” on a Mariano Rivera. It’s primo quality so the stakes start high. 10 million is a starting point and if the Mets were in a position to contend you wouldn’t pay 10 million for Mariano Rivera provided he passes a physical?
Who did the Mets bid against to think Wright was worth almost as much as Miguel Cabrera? Themselves? They came up with this amount themselves.
The Yankees will be fighting for the post season and made a deal that is within the context of what they need to do. Same as any team would do and if Andy Pettite was a Met, and the Mets were in position to contend they’d do the same thing. The Mets brought back an aging Tom Seaver right? I don’t care what the money was.
It’s about doing what you need to do to win. It’s just about trying to win and if you’re gonna sit there and cry about the market and who’s raising it then you’re going to lose while you’re wasting time crying. Just try to win the best you can.
Bayonne, first of all the goal was to keep Wright from hitting the open market where things get out of control as you saw with deals for Pujols, Fielder, etc.
Also, you cant use Cabrera as a comparison because he never hit the open market either.
This is about Pettitte. A pitcher than no other team wanted, and a pitcher who had no intention of playing for any other team but the Yankees. If the Mets had signed Pettitte for $12 million would you be thrilled? Me… I’d be blowing a gasket,
For the players the Yankees will have on the field it’s appropriate plus he’s a home boy AND for all the other competitive reasons I cited.
But it doesn’t work for the Mets because they’re going nowhere. NOW, if you want to get hypothetical and the Mets added 3 more pieces and suddenly found a wad of cash at srt’s house and had more to spend and adding a veteran like Pettite than yes I would try to sign him
It’s not that other teams didn’t want him which is completely false, without merit and just an opinion but sure he probably would go for less with another team but so what? The Yankees probably felt they wanted to reward him also for his past work and not disrespect him by treating him like any other team would. If they treated him like any other player that wouldn’t be right either. It’s a situation unique to the Yankees or any team like them in their position.
We’re just sounding like Mets fans whining about other team’s decisions.
Unfortunately, irresponsible deals like the Pettitte deal and the Werth deal affect all teams including us. It’s terrible deals like these that drive salaries up. Don’t think this Pettitte deal hasn’t impacted the Dickey negotiations. It has. If you want to see the Mets sign more players, and it looks like you do, then you should be angry over Pettitte’s deal too because the more Dickey costs us, the less we have to spend.
The Werth deal and the Pettite deal are completely different and have nothing to do with each other. One is exactly what you think it is – an excessive amount of money for a player who doesn’t deserve it. The other is a very, VERY good pitcher who can lead a team into the post season who just got maybe about 3 or 4 million more than he would have been paid perhaps by another team. We’re not talking about 100 million dollars here.
And just by coincidence i happen to think Dickey is worth about 12 million a year or so. I thought 4 years at 40 million was good but he may wound up taking even less! And I bet you that if Andy Pettite’s salary came up someone would bring up the fact that’s money the Yankees felt he deserved because he’s a home guy and not necessarily what he’d get on the open market. Dickey is on the open market because he has no history with the Mets like Pettite has with the Yanks
Bayonne this is the same Franchise that were shocked with the Zimmerman deal then went ahead and gave David Wright a hell of a lot more money in a deal….
GO FIGURE!!!
You’d think they’d learn there lesson and worry about there own finances.
If this doesnt sound like a skankee fan, i dont know what does. I bet a lot of the others who always come here to trash the mets are yankee trolls too.
seriously, I believe Dickey or Niese will be traded soon for a long term solution in the outfield since there is nothing in our system at all except Nimmo who is years away.
There are some options internally. I think if you can sign Andres Torres for a million or less (if the Mets can’t land a better OFer) they should consider. At worst, you could platoon him and Kirk. I don’t know what you think of Den Dekker. It’s not COMPLETELY barren.
Conner, I think I said long term solution for the outfield, Torres is certainly not that Den Dekker struck in 1/3 of his ABs in AAA last year. Kirk is the best of the bunch close to mlb ready and he is a strikeout machine too. same as valdy same as almost every hitter in the system.
Valdy and Kirk are kids and you’ve already decided what they are. What will they be like 2 years from now? You think they’ll be the same as last season?
I don’t think so.
In my opinion of their development they are at the stage where it’s still too early if they can either be a part of the solution – either may OR they can be used in a deal. Kirk may always be a strikeout machine and Valdy may always be a hacker but if both evolve into major league versions of those styles, which thousands of players have possessed in baseball history before saber decided that’s bad, either way one can have a solid career.
Bayonne, Thats great news.Now we dont need to get any outfield help, we already have the talent right under our noses. How silly of me.
I recommend hoarding our top pitchers, allow Santana’s contract to expires and if you start moving bodies, start with Valdespin, Duda, Gee & Mejia & see if you can get decent rh hitting of prospects in return.
I wouldn’t move RA for many reasons. For starters (no pun intended), he’s impossible to hit. You won’t find a higher level of intelligence and character in the Met clubhouse. And he’s a humble Dude. Priceless characteristics.
RA Dickey will most likely have another good year next year. All he’s done is pitch well since coming to the Mets. I don’t think it’s about to stop all of a sudden and who’s to say he won’t have another outstanding year next year? What if he goes 17-9 4.01 ERA? I dont’ think suddenly you’re going to see 5-11 5.71 ERA seasons just yet. He’s got more in him.
At the same time if teams are the ones making the first move then you have to listen. If they get overwhelmed they better have a backup plan ready to acquire another solid veteran starting pitcher. Not a kid, an experienced VETERAN who knows how to win.
I agree.
If they get overwhelmed with an offer (which seems like it actually might happen) they should acquire at least a decent starting pitcher to either hold the place of Wheeler and then send him to the bullpen or use him and send Gee to the ‘pen once Wheeler is ready. I don’t think it has to be a star or anything, just a consistent veteran.
Connor you don’t obtain a player to “hold the place” of an unproven minor leaguer. You pay millions because you want him to be a solid member of your rotation. What if the guy that is this “placeholder” has a great season? Tell him “oh, u gotta go, Zack’s here?”
This is the thinking of the new saber/Sandy Alderson/moneyball fan here. They base their thoughts more on who made the decision instead of assessing the decision from a purely baseball standpoint.
Well clearly if he’s having a great season, Wheeler has to wait or Gee or another guy would have to go to the bullpen.
Also I think your “new saber/Sandy Alderson/moneyball fan” stereotype is ridiculous. I have disagreed with some of Alderson’s actions (more like inactions) but I’m still put in the general group as a “$lurper of Lord Sandy” because I don’t hate him like it’s what I was put on Earth to do. The “new thinking” doesn’t involve mindlessly following people, it involves looking at trends in the game along with the “classic” way of thinking.
I am not trying to start a flame war here, but I don’t know why you couldn’t have just left that off the end of your comment.
And Wheeler doesn’t have to wait if the new guy is having a great season because if he’s doing well he’ll come up – they will find a way, there always is.
The reason i cited the saber stuff is because, well let me put it this way – nobody here was talking about a “placeholder” for that kid Gooden in the minors, and I’m sure that nobody was talking about placeholders with that kid Seaver on the farm. In fact i’m not sure i’ve ever heard of a pitcher being acquired and while expected to perform he’s still just here to bide time because an unproven good pitcher was in the lower minors. That’s why i can only think that it’s some kind of affinity to Alderson/saber/etc because otherwise it makes no sense
I think it’s happened before- where a GM takes a bargain-bin type pitcher to replace someone who’s injured or something. I doubt it happens frequently w/ prospects because i think a lot of times, they’re called up very early or very late in the season so there’s no point in signing a placeholder guy for ~ 10 starts. In those cases, you have to go after someone who you think is better long-term.
uh huh yeah okay. Good.
If Santana proves to be healthy and pitching well…I would trade him for some young relievers…
Pay the rest of his salary, get a couple of fireballers in the minors from a team that needs a top pitcher with no commitment.
sign Victorino and trade Dickey & Gee for the Royals Meyers and keep Niese !
A trade must work for both teams. Of course they’d prefer to package younger prospects, just like the mets would prefer to to fill multiple holes with Dickey.
Ill make a prediction…
Dickey will not be traded for multiple younger prospects. They want players on the cusp of MLB.
Rampant speculation??? Heyman just said the Royals were amount the teams that contacted the mets, and I wonder…who do you think they’re asking for? Dickey is going no where unless they get a Zack Wheeler type top prospect or more, only in the form of outfielder and catcher.
As far as the Yankees are concerned…they want Petitte, who will only pitch for them and won’t pitch for chump change again. Being upset with either party is just sour grapes. Petitte showed when healthy, and he didn’t have arm trouble last year, he’s still a great pitcher. He’s worth 12 million. Just like Dickey is at this point. 38 means nothing when your sitting batters down. These guys get outs and that’s worth a fortune.
Rampant speculation??? Heyman just said the Royals were amount the teams that contacted the mets, and I wonder…who do you think they’re asking for? Dickey is going no where unless they get a Zack Wheeler type top prospect or more, only in the form of outfielder and catcher.
You’re shifting gears on me.
Rampant speculation about Myers for Dickey – the topic of your first reply to me.
Don’t trade Dickey . How are you going to replace a 15 – 20 game winner, you might as well take 20 games off the win column Isn’t pitching the name of the game . We need Dickey on the rotation . a knuckle ball pitcher doesn’t come around to often.
PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE MOST MET FANS ARE OBLIVIOUS TO DICKEY’S ADVANTAGES IN THE CURRENT MLB ATMOSPHERE AN I OPUINE AS FOLLOWS:
NYM NEED DICKEY AS #1 OPENING DAY SP FOR 2015 IF NOTHING ELSE, IN NYC WHERE NEARLY EVERY GAME RESULTS IN A NEAR PRESS CONFERENCE THERE IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST TALENT ON THE MOUND REQUIRED OF A #1 & WHILE BOTH HARVEY & WHEELER ARE MORE CONVENTIONAL LOOKING POWER PITCHING “ACES” IT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO BURDEN THEM WITH THE CONSTANT BARRAGE OF PRESS INQUIRES, IF ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE THE METS CAN TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THE JETS’ SANCHEZ HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO WEEKLY AFTER BOTH WINS & LOSSES
I PERSONALLY ANTICIPATE DICKEY SIGNING FOR WHAT MAY BE AN ALL TIME LOW IN $$ & TERM FOR A REIGNING FREE AGENT CY YOUNG WINNER, MORE THAN LIKELY 2 MORE YEARS @ 25M ADDED TO NEXT SEASON’S OPTION YEAR BRINGING HIS 3 YEAR TOTAL TO ONLY $30M > THAN ONLY 5M FROM WHAT SANTANA WILL EARN (25.5M) IN 2013 ALONE
PERSONALLY, CONTRARY TO SKEPTICAL PERCEPTIONS, I BELIEVE THE MOST IMPORTANT NUMERICAL VALUE TO DICKEY’S MARVELOUS 2012 CAMPAIGN WAS NOT 20 Ws IN 33 GS; BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY ONLY 6 Ls IN THOSE 33GS. THE NEXT MORE IMPRESSIVE STAT, ESPECIALLY FOR A KNUCKLER, WAS HIS WHIP @ 1.05. ALMOST AS IMPRESSIVE WAS HIS 4K:1BB RATIO COMPILING A LEAGUE LEADING 230 STRIKEOUTS WHILE ISSUING A TOTAL OF ONLY 54 PASSES. ESPECIALLY WHILE USING BASEBAL’S MOST UNCONTROLLABLE LEGAL PITCH(KNUCKLER)
I BELIEVE THE TIME HAS COME WHEN ALL OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS IN MLB HAVE ALIGNED TO FAVOR DICKEY’S CONTINUED EXCELLENCE AS THE CURRENT FINANCIAL ENVIRONEMENT MAKES MLB FRANCHISES MORE WILLING TO PATIENTLY GROW & IMPROVE FROM WITHIN, EMPLOYING A GREATER RATIO OF MINIMUM SALARIED ROOKIES OVER MAXIMUM SALARIED FREE AGENT VETS.
AS BASEBALL HAS DEVELOPED A GREATER RELIANCE UPON TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES TO PROVIDE HITTERS WITH VARIOUS REPLAYS OF PRIOR PITCHING PERFORMANCES INCL THEIR OWN PRIOR AT BATS AGAINST SPECIFIC PITCHERS THIS USAGE WILL BECOME EVEN MORE EVIDENT AS THE LINEUPS’ GAME EXPERIENCE SHORTENS(MORE ROOKIES)
RA DICKEY EMPLOYS THE SINGLE LEAST PREDICTABLE PITCH EVER LEGALLY USED IN BASEBALL, THE ERRATIC KNUCKLEBALL WHICH ULTIMATELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF VIDEO PREPARATION. AS THE LAST REMAINING PRACTIONER OF HIS CRAFT THE OPORTUNITY FOR YOUNG HITTERS TIO GAIN EXPERIECE OR CONFIDENCE AGAINST A KNUCKLEBALL IS RENDERED AS A RARE OPORUNITY, PERHAPS ONLY A HANDFUL(3,4) OF AT BATS EACH SEASON, IF AT ALL BASED UPION THE NATURE OF AN UNBALANCED SCHEDULE
WITH NO ULNAR-COLATERAL LIGAMENT IN HIS PITCHING ARM TO REQUIRE TJ SURGERY & EMPLOYING THE LEAST PHYSICALLY STREESSFUL DELIVERY POSSBLE THE LIKLIHOOD OF DICKEY DEVELOPING ARM ISSUES IS GREATLY REDUCED COMPARED TO COVENTIONAL PRACTICIONERS.
FOR ALL OF THESE REASONS, I PREDICT MORE LOPSIED WINNING SEASONS FOR DICKEY THAN ANYONE ANTICIPATES. ESPECIALY AS HE HAS A WARRIOR’S MAKEUP Re. PAIN & INJURY AS HE PITCHED NEARLY HALF OF 2011 TROUBLED BY PLANTAR FACEITIS IN HIS LANDING FOOT AS WELL AS MOST OF 2012 WITH A TORN ABDOMINAL MUSCLE.
AS TO MAKEUP(INTESTINAL FORTITUDE), I’VE YET TO FIND A MORE GROUNDED STAR PITCHER, AS TO TRUE HUMILITY WITH FAMILY & TEAM FIRST R A DICKEY IS THE ANTITHESIS OF THE SUPER-EGO CLEMENS,SEAVER,GOODEN TYPES
DICKEY IS ABOUT AS CLOSE AS U CAN GET TO HAVING A TRUE ‘LIL ABNER’ TYPE HEADLINING A ROTATION. AW SHUCKS!!! LOL
Ahhh…..The sentimental Met Fan!
We all love Dickey and would love him to remain a Met BUT, we have TOO many holes to fill til we are even considered a decent team….
Compound that with the fact that the Mets arent willing to spend via Free agency and we have a big conundrum on our hands. Leaving us with only other way(s) to improve the team which would be via savvy trades or through the farm system(which is a crap shoot).
Lets say we decide to wait for the cavalry/prospects to mature and make it to Queens. By the time they are ready to help out they will be 1st year rookies and Dickey would be 40yrs old. Then we would have to wait til these prospects come into their own–and learn the pro game and that is only IF they come into their own.
Either way you slice this cake the Mets will not be winners nor contenders under Dickeys presumed new 2-3yr deal. The only true way to really rebuild and improve is via TRADES,FREE AGENCY & PROSPECTS all THREE!!! And some Mets fans get so attached to players that they dont want to give to get. Our strength is pitching we HAVE TO trade some pitching to get better at other positions. You cant trade your trash for other teams Jewels, both teams have to feel they benefit from a deal. Dickey means more to a contending team like the Rangers than he does to a no contender like us the Mets. A few prospects on the Rangers mean more to us than they do to the Rangers. Reason being Rangers are ready to win NOW so they need players that are ready NOW. We are building for the future those prospects wont be ready til the future 1-2 maybe even 3 years.
You have to Give to get!
FYI Youre all Caps lock ruined my eyes
BAD-BAD, I COMPLEETELY AGREE WE HAVE TOO MANY HOLES TO FILL BY TRADING JUST 1 PITCHER, EVEN THE REIGNING CY WINNER; HOWEVER, I RECENTLY OPINED TO SOME FAMILY MEWMBERS, THE FOLLOWING ON WHAT I’D DO IF I WERE ALDERSON, A COPY OF MY NOTE FOLLOWS:
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I STILL AM TOO UNFAMILIAR WITH ALDERSON’S STYLE TO VENTURE EVEN AN EDUCATED GUESS AS TO HIS PLANS, THOUGH IF IT WERE ME, I’D BE USING DICKEY AS THE FLAME TO DRASW THE MOTHS(OTHER CLUBS’ OFERS) SO AS TO EVALUATE WHAT OTHER TEAMS’ PLAYERS MAY BE CONSIDERED TO BE POTENTIAL CHIPS TO ACQUIRE PITCHING WITH. I’D ATTEMPT TO ASSESS 2 DIFFERENT SCALE OFFERS, ONE WITH THE MOST TALENT(ANY LEVEL) THE OTHER WITH THE BIGGER MAJOR LEAGUE EFFECT aka MLB READY HIGH QUALITY AAA OR YOUNG VETS WHILE BEING PREPARED TO OFFER NIESE IN RETURN FOR THE MLB READY PKG &/OR GEE FOR THE TALENTED MiLB PKG OF PROMIS(S) DEALING BOTH IF NEEDED TO IMPROVE THE MOST BOTH? WHY?
PRIMARILY BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY HOLES NEEDING BODIES TO FLIL WITH JUST ONE DEAL AND I’D CONSIDER 4 STUD STARTERS ENOUGH TO GO FORTH WITH SANTANA, DICKEY, HARVEY, WHEELER, TBD, TO ME, IS BETTER THAN SANTANA,WHEELER HARVEY, NIESE, GEE,
ESPECIALY IF I GARNER AT LEAST 1 OUTFIELD UPGRADE & A MLB READY CATCHER CONSIDERING THOSE TEAMS WHO ARE CALING ON DICKEY: KC, TORONTO, CLEVELAND
THAT’S WHAt i would do, alderson, probably not!
THIS IS REPORTEDLY GOUING TO BE THE HOTTEST MEETING Re TRADES COMPLETED IN SOMETIME AS FAR AS NYM & F/A GO. I’M IN A POSITION OF HOPING CERTAIN TIOP F/A STAY OUT OF THE DIVISION SUCH AS GRENKE STAYING OUT OF DC, WHO ARE RUMORED TO BE INTERESTED & HAMILTON PREFERRING TO REMAIN IN THE Jr CIRCUIT INSTEAD OF TRYING ON PHILLIES’ RED.
ONE TEAM POTENTIALY INTERESTED IN PITCHING; BUT UNLIKELY SUITORS FOR DICKEY IS AZ BECAUSE MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT DICKEY DOMINATED THEM IN CITI; BUT LOST 2 OF HIS LAST 3 IN AZ. TO PRSUE UPTON ALDERSON WOULD NEED TO CONTACT AZ WITH NIESE MORE THAN LIKELY.
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I LIEU OF EWPORTS THAT ANDY & DICKEY MET LAST NIGHT WITHOUT ANY CONTRACT DISCUSSIONS LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THE UNRESOLVED ELEPHANT IS A “NO-TRADE” CLAUSE AND BOTH SIDES HAVE ALREADY COME TO TERMS ON TERM & DOLLARS WHILE SANDY CAN CONTINUE TO USE DICKEY AS BAIT UNTIKL THE VERY LAST MOMENT WHEN THEY’LL GIVE HIM HIS ‘NO TRADE’ IN EXCHANGE FOR THE DEEP “MET ONLY” DISCOUNT
TO ME, THAT ALL MAKES THE MOST SENSE FOR ALL INVOLVED PARTIES AS SUCH, I WOULDN’T BE SHOCKED IF NIESE WENT TO CLEVELAND & GEE TO KC OR TOR.
See below as Dickry led NL with a 80% LOB Stat. Skil and guts under pressure.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=nl&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=13,d
Good post.
Well, i would think a reigning cy young winer cost at least 1 blue chipper, otherwise teams would just keep their cy young winner
Good that RA’s at winter meetings. It means there’s good chance they work it out ASAP.
As for Wil Myers, maybe they dangle Jon Niese.
Dickey has a bunch of value to the Mets as a workhorse who can take the ball every 5th day and be expected to go deep. Especially in 2013 and 2014 as Harvey and eventually Wheeler are gradually brought along, that’s a very valuable rotation anchor structurally.
To be honest, I’d rather see Niese & Dickey stay and the Mets having a real strength instead of ” robbing Peter to pay Paul”. Sign Cody Ross, Giovani Soto and – gulp – José Valverde. That’s the 15 million saved on Bay in 2013 well spent without trading away any core players.
DR. D… WHILE U WERE WAITING TO EXHALE THE METS NEGOTIATED” DEFERRING”BAY’S 16M 2013 SALARY INTO 2 EQUAL PARTS OVER ’13 & ’14 THUS SAVING ONLY 78M IN ’13 WHILE ADDING 8M TO ’14 THAT WASN’T THERE IN ACTUALITY W/BUYOUT $$$ IT’S MORE LIKE 9.5M IN EACH PAYMENT.
Not close= the mets have time to string him along and will wait to hear offers for him in trades.
This makes perfect sense. If they offer him what it’ll take right away, he’ll sign and its over. Right now, they’re offering a smaller deal knowing he’ll say no and that gives them time to field offers and possibly find a great trade proposal. If they don’t like what’s offered during the meetings, they could simply up their offer to him and get the deal done.
Frankly, it’s the smart play. Even if he jumped at their low ball offer they could sign him and be ecstatic about a great deal; while also keeping him valuable as a low cost trade option whose locked up for three years to a reasonable salary. They are going take their time here and see what’s out there. Who knows, I got a feeling that someone will look at his last three years of work and realize this guy is the real deal. He has at least two more good to great years on that arm and possibly more because he throws the knuckler.
Somebody is going to offer up a great deal here….I can just feel it. Either way, they’ll have a returning ace or a great prospect or two.
This.
Read somewhere last week where the Mets are in no hurry to sign Dickey and could stretch into ST (considering he’s not traded before than). Once teams get a look at their roster, who might not be ready, who might get hurt during ST, etc., they’ll be another flurry of teams looking for starting pitching. Different teams maybe then those who might be looking right now.
They talked about on MLBN that if they were Sandy they would only field offers and not sign him until at least Grienke is off the market and they see if a team gets desperate.
Funny you say that, because on a somewhat related note, I’m reading stuff that execs are saying that Myers will be used a chip to get starting pitching. Like I said days ago, all that stuff of Myers, Perez, and them not being available is KC bluffing.
Yup, early July of 2011 the reports were no way in hell will the Giants trade Wheeler for a rental… If teams get desperate…
They got winning pitcher on their hands and are going to trade him.
It doesn’t make sense to me, and if they do trade him how are they going to replace him , ( 15 – 20 games on the win column) .Just like they trade Seaver away, look how that ended up.DO YOU GET IT TEAM BRASS
Lol, well unless they replace him with you or I, I don’t think it will be a 15-20 win swing in the standings.
Yeah that’s not how it works lol.
We just got rid of a (former) 15-game winner days ago, and I don’t see a lot of people crying about it. I’ve seen 17 game winners replaced and alas, nothing changed. As long as you have some very good pitching depth, anyone can be replaced.
Maybe everybody should just stop mentioning pitcher wins altogether. Crazy I know.
another ridiculous saber belief from people who learned the game from a ledger instead of watching.
Good pitchers will always put their teams in better position to win than lousy pitchers. Yes all kinds of extenuating circumstances come into play as in ALL sports that use teams to compete but the bottom line is good to great pitchers are good to great for a reason.
They put their teams, no matter what team they’re on, in better positions to win. This disregard for pitcher’s wins ESPECIALLY when it involved outstanding pitchers who KNOW how to make the correct pitches to win or are just untouchable, is just silly and downright stupid.
if pitcher wins don’t matter then the Mets should sign anybody, that’s all. Since pitcher’s wins are now diminished just sign anybody because if you position your players in all kinds of ridiculous defensive positions that will make up for it, right?
OR
you can sign good pitchers. This way you have a better chance to win
Dickey needs to enjoy his offseason and realize that he won’t be signed any time soon. He can sit in a the negotiating table all he wants but until every last suitor is crossed off the list, his extension gets put on hold.
Bring the kids to Disney and skip the meetings RA, they’ll call you when it’s time to talk turkey. Or to tell you which city your heading to come spring.
When it comeS down to stopping a six game losing streak then what are you going to say !!
I wish we had our ALL STAR AND CY YOUNG PITCHER BACK IN THE ROTATION
One pitcher isn’t gonna fix all our problems. Stop it.
And Joe:
Honestly, how can anyone presume to know which players are untouchable or off the table?
Teams deal for their own needs; most of the time dealing from their strength. That’s why the Mets ate considering trading RA, their ace and someone that reasonably shouldn’t be traded considering his value to their rotation. However, as Sandy has stated, the Mets currently have depth in starting pitching and if bowled over, would be will to move a starter if it helped the team.
The Royals want a number one starter. They have some decent pitching and a good offense, but lack that number one starter that could legitimize their team in a division they feel they could compete in. Now, this is a team and fan base starved for success. They’ve had a horrible twenty years and have finally developed a good offense through their system, but after all these years and many low draft picks, still haven’t developed the pitching that’s wins championships. They sure can’t afford the big ticket items and Cy Young winners are rarely if ever available for a price they could pay. Just like with Wheeler, when a team thinks they are one player away, crazy things happen.
Yeah, Lester is younger, but he’s also not coming off a great season. I believe RA is a much safer bet to continue to have success if I’m a team having to give up a top prospect. My point is that these rumors are out there and possibly are being leaked by teams themselves just to keep the asking price down and help in negotiations. Maybe it’s the Royals way of only having to give up Myers and nothing else in a deal for a top pitcher; let teams think they received a great deal while only just getting that one prospect, when normally a Cy Young winner would’ve gotten the team much more.
I just don’t think a team like the Royals, so hungry for success, can afford to constrain themselves hoping a great pitcher falls in their lap. If its the best chance at the playoffs or Myers, they better pick that chance. Nobody, especially a prospect, should hold that back after decades of losing.
I’d take Shields over either Lester or Dickey if I’m the Royals.
i agree. i’ve been saying the same thing. KC is on the cusp of playoff contention in a City that hasn’t competed since when, the 1980s? They’re 1 pitcher away. i think they’ll trade Myers for that ‘right’ pitcher.
And, yes, Lester i coming off a bad year. Is there something ‘wrong’ with him? According to speculation, RA has 6 – 7 teams interested in him. That’s huge.
i think Dickey gets traded to KC. I think a package of, say, RA, Familia, Fulmer, & maybe Murphy (sorry!) gets Myers + Zimmer + Perez, or a bigger package like Cain, Zimmer, Ventura, Bonifacio, DeShields, Jr.
And, in my view. that’s for starters: We get Salty from Boston and sign Cody Ross.
And, best of all, the Mets get to the playoffs in 2013!
That’s absolutely hilarious. No way the Royals trade one of the top 5 prospects in baseball plus their top pitching prospect, plus their young stud catcher who is signed through 2019 for one year of Dickey, a middling SP prospect in Familia, and a long way away guy like Fulmer.
If Alderson trades Dickey he has no commitment to ever winning a championship in NY. How many years is this constant policy of waiting till next year going to last? He trades Dickey it means he punted the 2013 season. All he’s done is bleed the Mets from Comeback Players, Batting Champions, and now Cy Youngs. He dont get how winning works. Nuff said!
The Mets won 74 games with Dickey taking home the Cy Young…do you really think 2013 is rosy even with him in the rotation?
So instead of building on that we just hit the blow it all up button every offseason? That’s rich. Lets just suck forever why don’t we. Or at least until Alderson gets fired or passes away, which ever happens first.
HItmam, your cool but how are we going to solve the pitching rotation if Dickey is traded.
Your back at square one trying to figure out who’s going give you the innings and a chance to win every outing. So you build your team around your core players like Dickey, Wright, Davis,Tegada. Yes, and possibly we could have won just 54 games without Dickey Task master.
Since ARod is out for a while any chance they trade a catching prospect for Murphy?