New GM coming in and by year three goes after players to help those kids he got the previous three to get to the championship….

Bottomline he didn’t do it….
And I have no problem with standards provided those standards are applied accross the board.

Unfortunatly on these blogs people set two standards for pass and fail and tailor them to their agenda because if one was applied either both would pass or both would failand thats not in thier posting interests….

Cashen was competent but he is not the GM god people make him out to be.
He brought in McIlvane and Harazin who did the REAL long term damage to this team just as I suspect once Sandy gets fired DePo and the other two heads of our three headed monster will when they take over….

Maybe we win another WS in 2019 just in time for Wright to retire on top.

When one thinks about it, if in addition to that hit curveball, had George Foster been able to just lift even a fly ball instead of a bases loaded grounder to third with one out forcing Mex at home in the first inning of that final game against St. Louis in 1985, it could have been a four year dynasty. When Foster all but killed that rally and we wound up scoring just one run that inning, I already felt the game was lost. It was a momentum breaker.

Perspective….

I have no problems with how someone defines standards provided those standards apply to ALL assesment…

I know lots of folks look to Cashen as a hero….
I never did. He did what he did due to a decade of bad team losing and getting the best picks every year and he didn’t even make the right choice 50% of the time but it was enough to win!

What did it in the end?

Trading Kids for GOOD not GOOD for KIDS!

Something these guys don’t want to acknowlege and just keep talking about Mazzilli as if it was the only trade that made it happen.

Knew you were going to pick up on “dynasty” so that is why my answer referred to those years as our “longest era of being a top competitor.”

I understand using past examples to back up one’s point – we all do that, however, in order to make a proper comparison – if there is indeed a pararall – one has to do his or her research to identify not just the similiarities but also the differences in regards to circumstances, approaches, individuals, outside factors, etc. before making a blanket statement.

To dismiss that paints a false picture of history.

I guess anyone who thinks Sandy has a good record due to his one WS in 89 needs to define it that way, but the rest of the world calls you a one and done….

You are right to bring it up again that patience is a virtue which did indeed lead to our longest era of being a top competitor. We can also add that at the beginning stage of that process the fans’ impatience can be brutal while cooler heads prevail.

But I have been bringing up a point as well – one can only be judged on his own merits, not those of others.

So, you can blame Alderson for not smearing enough shorttem lipstick on the pig that is and has been the Mets major league roster. Last winter´s small scale moves like adding Francisco, trading for Torres & Ramirez mostly failed. The moves in the previous winter like signing Hairston, Capuano or Isringhausen mostly worked.
They all had in common that they – purposely – had no longterm impact. And this winter anything beyond possibly trading Dickey for longterm pieces and otherwise signing leftovers to shorttem deals to fill out the roster also makes little sense in the big picture.

Or would you rather have this alternate universe scenario:
1. Wilpons suddenly find money and push the 2013 budget up to 125 million (i.e. 45 million to spend)
2. Sign Michael Bourn (let´s say, 5-years, 75 million $) & Raffael Soriano (4-years, 40 million $) to risky longterm contracts. But to have more available to spend in 2013, let´s backload the Bourn & Soriano deals a bit, so they only cost a combined 15 instead of 25 million this year
3. Trade Jon Niese, Zach Wheeler (he must be a hack anyway if Alderson & Co. got him – after all, any idiot would have been able to get him for two months of compensation free Carlos Beltran) & Wilmer Flores for Justin Upton ?
4. Sign RHP Shaun Marcum as a rotation replacement for Niese to a 3-year, 39 million $ contract
5. To improve the bullpen, trade Michael Fulmer & Rafael Montero (two more hack Alderson signings) to CLE for RHP Chris Perez
6. Also re-sign Kelly Shoppach (2-years, 5 million $)
7. Also re-sign Scott Hairston (2-years, 10 million $)
8. Last but not least, sign a LOOGY, say LH Tom Gorzelanny to a 1-year deal at 1.5 million.

Your 2013 Mets:
SP: Dickey – Santana – Marcum – Harvey – Gee
RP: Soriano – Perez – F.Francisco – Parnell – Edgin – Gorzelanny – Hefner
Lineup:
1) Bourn, cf
2) Murphy, 2b
3) Wright, 3b
4) Davis, 1b
5) Upton, rf
6) Duda, lf
7) Tejada, ss
8) Thole, c
Bench:
Shoppach, c
Hairston, of
Baker, of
Turner, if
Valdespin, if

Payroll in 2013: 125 million
Is that a playoff team ?
In 2013 ?
In 2015 ?
In 2017 ?
Projected payroll going into 2014 (assuming Dickey gets extended at 12 million per year) with salary spikes for Wright, Bourn, Upton, Soriano and arb raises for Davis, Tejada, Gee, Parnell : roughly 120 million (including money deferred to Bay).
So, if your budget stays at 125 million, you have 5 million left to spend to replace Santana, Francisco, Perez and Gorzelanny who are all free agents. Or hope that your budget gets bumped up to 140 million for 2014, so you can sign, say Tim Lincecum as a free agent next winter.

See where the problem is ?
If you spike up the payroll before you´re ready to win and have an affordable young core in place, you have to be able & willing to add to it every year to keep things going while ending up with a roster that gets older & older & more expensive every day.
Also, all these signings mean the Mets lose their regular 1st & 2nd round picks in the 2013 draft besides trading 4 of their current top 8 prospects.
Of course, this would be a perfect Steve Phillips plan. Have fun & go out with the babes and don´t think about any impact it´ll have tomorrow…

You know, I always wondered why they lip synced so often when appearing on really big shoes (err, shows) like Ed Sullivan. That was usually restricted to lower budgeted shows oriented toward teenagers like Bandstand, Where The Action Is, syndicated ones like Lloyd Thaxton, Hollywood a Go-Go and occasional acts on prime time shows ones like Hullabaloo or Shindig.

Funny story about lip syncing in his book “Rock, Roll and Remember”. Dick Clark wrote about a group appearing on his Saturday night ABC program. They did not realize the afternoon performance which was also in front of an audience was only a dress rehearsal and thus when the broadcast began, Dick introduced them, the curtain went up, the vocals would be heard and there was an empty stage. Of course, I do not know how true that story is because I cannot imagine the host not being informed by the time the curtain rises of one of the acts not being there and all the stage hands going on with their duties without noticing it as well.

But does sound like something this particular Met organization would be capable of doing …. LOL

Very appropriate using “California Dreaming” as a metaphor describing the different directions made by clubs in sunny southern California compared to us suffering through another winter of our discontent. I have my reservations about these big signings working out for either team because trying to buy a championship usually doesn’t work – but at least they are trying. They are not standing still or worse, going backwards.

Is it just a co-incidence that Sandy made so many promises about this coming winter and that “California Dreaming” is a cut from the Mamas and the Papas first album titled “If You Can Believe Your Eyes And Ears”? LOL

I’m looking at my original Dunhill album with a picture of the four of them in the bathtub and the precious vinyl recording inside in all it’s glorious monophonic sound! Going to now put it on the turntable to flashback to wonderful memories from 47 years ago when not only was the song released but the Mets had just pulled off the biggest deal of their short four year history – getting Ken Boyer from the Cardinals for Al Jackson and Charlie Smith. I was a kid then so the trade had me all excited, but today I would look at it as the Mets again only acquiring another over the hill all-star on his way down. But back then, while we were not California Dreaming, we were dreaming about reaching heights above the cellar for the first time.

What has Sandy got us so far? Wheeler?

Any idiot can trade an annual ALl Star a possible HOFer for a kid like that it doesn’t take brains or effort!

That’s cause I won and you are just grasping.

Notice I’m not yelling out names of players they need to sign…

That’s cause they do need to spend cautiously, not just free wielding their wallets and signing aging players.

I just want what fair to us and to the owners…a chance.

I’m not saying money equals throphies, but not spending money when you don’t have a productive farm system is suicide.

Wow Ray, your comment was really stupid. Almost as if you think the Mets situation is okay. Look at the free agent market. It’s gone up considerably due to rising revenues. The revenues are rising primarily due to new television deals. The agents know it and have armed themselves with this information.

So, that’s how a Shane Victorino coming off a bad year gets 39 million. How Angel Pagan gets 40 million.

If these players; these not elite players, receive this amount of cash on the open market, then teams must all be ready to open their wallets if they don’t have a feeder fund to draw players from in the minors. The Mets, offensively speaking, don’t have the ability to man an outfield with good major leaguers. They’re going into battle with muskets, while other big market teams have drones.

85 million dollar payroll folks… In today’s climate a 125-140 million dollar payroll isn’t that big anymore. By 2014, half of baseball will be around those numbers due to the upcoming 50 million dollar increase in the MLB negotiated TV contract. I’m just asking for a chance here. I’m just asking for this big market team to spend accordingly in today’s shifting baseball economy; just so they have a chance.

Come on Ray, use your noggin. This is New York…it’s not Miami. The biggest market in the league and a team in the second biggest market is outspending the mets by 150%. If they just bridge that gap by a little, it’s not a lot to ask for. How many seasons of mediocrity must we be witness to.

I know, I know… We got Anthony Recker. We’ll be fine.

But look at the money the Yankees are throwing around for guys 38, 40, 43, and 40. Keep spending because it is NY.

Red Sox $70M-$80M

And both those owners have substantial holding in the networks.

Phillips…1999 and 2000 and a crash by 2002.

Omar….1996,7,8 and then crash that has led to 4 4th place finishes.

But then again, the main problem is that Wilpon always listens to the fans and just spends to appease them. Remember when Wilpon made Phillips spend more money so he went and go Appier which led to Mo Vaughn. Wonderful philosophy that was.