Two Mets Sources: Don’t Rule Out An Angel Pagan Return

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• jessep November 30, 2012 at 2:56 pm

  I’d be shocked as well – mostly because he doesn’t fill a need. Do they need a better CF? Yes. But they CAN live with Kirk in CF if RF isn’t a disaster.

  They can’t live with Pagan in CF with a gaping hole in RF. They need some form of power out of the corner OF.

  If there’s no trade, I hope the Mets are at least looking at Ludwick, Ross, or Swisher though I cannot stand Swisher I’d understand why they get him. I still wish Torii Hunter came here though.
  • Just_Da_Damaja November 30, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Nope…Detroit did the lets surround our star player with other star player thing…

    Cabrera…

    Fielder…

    Martinez….

    Hunter…

    add on solid players like Infante…Avila….Jackson….

    and o yea….a rock solid pitching staff….some Cy Young award winner named Justin Bieber
    • sarge69 November 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm

      +1
  • Just_Da_Damaja November 30, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    David Wright
    Ike Davis
    Lucas Duda

    what more power do u want?

    Are u expecting murderers row??
  • Met Maniac November 30, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    No surprise seeing you jump on this first. A tiger never changes his stripes.
  • gorgeguy November 30, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    I like Kirk, and was really hyped when he was hitting. Of course, the pitchers were giving it right where he wanted. They adjusted, he didn’t. The holes in his approach and his swing have made me doubt that he’ll have a solid sophomore year right out of the gate.

    Of course, looking at the Pagan and lack of decent available OFs, I may eat my words. I sort of wanted them to deal for Span.
  • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Swisher is going to Boston
    Hunter is off to Detroit

    So basically you are saying an OF of Duda, Kirk, and either Ross or Ludwick is preferable to an OF of Duda – Pagan – Kirk

    well as it turns out….

    Ludwick is not a real RF, at this point he is a LF…he played LF in that lil bandbox for the reds…

    so we can scratch out Ludwick….unless of course u want to put a slow-footed 20 HR hitter in RF…

    then u have Ross…who had a career year in Boston…he had 22 HR that year…13 coming in Fenway…all 13 coming over the green monster ( the one thats less than 300 feet away )

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?id=rossco01&t=b

    Ross has no speed, no power, plays good defense

    Pagan has speed, power, plays good defense ( despite the occasional gaffe )

    Ludwick has no speed, some power, plays awful defense

    Yup….out of the 3 available choices, you def dont want the guy in the middle…

    the anti-los-mets agenda lives on
    • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 8:52 am

      the phillies reportedly are close to signing angel pagan to a 4 year deal

      the giants and rangers are also reportedly offering pagan 3-4 year deals

      ludwick declined his option, wants a 3 year deal, but cin is only offering 2 years

      the red sox are pursuing ross and swisher

      if the mets are going to look for lightning in a bottle, i would rather they trade Ike Davis for profur or Andrus from texas and then trade some filler for lars anderson, let Murphy, Duda and Anderson duke it out for the 1B spot

      Lars Anderson was a top 50 prospect in baseball 2 years ago who was blocked on the MLB level by the red sox constant high price players

      he is only 25 years old, has less than 1 year of MLB service
      • ifthevanisrockin December 1, 2012 at 9:26 am

        somebody is going to pay a lot for a guy who turns 32 early in the season, coming off a career year, which was really fueled by 1 huge month and a 2nd above average one. Who also hit .188 in the post season.

        Pagan had a pretty nice year, and hit a lot of triples, but I would not go crazy and treat him like Beltran in his prime
    • Fonzie13 December 1, 2012 at 4:15 pm

      How does Ross with a 464 career Slg% have no power but Pagan with a career 424 Slg% have power? Lmao. And Pagan hasn’t played good defense since 2010. Oh I forgot he made a nice diving catch in the playoffs. Your anti white agenda is worse than any anti Los Mets agenda.
      • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 4:55 pm

        Because At THIS stage in his career, Ross is not the player he was in 2008

        Ross had 22 HR this season, 13 coming at Fenway, all 13 were pulled over the LF green monster.

        The distance on many of those HR would equal flyball outs in Citifield

        the fact that aside from the occasional HR, he provides no speed and is ok at best on defense

        here is an article on how Fenway Park traditionally helps right handed pull hitters …aka Cody Ross improve their numbers

        http://www.baseball-statistics.com/Ballparks/Bos/index.htm#dimensions

        now factor in that Pagan had an offensive WAR almost DOUBLE CODY ROSS in a MUCH HARDER PARK TO HIT IN and you can see why Pagan is a better bet to continue his offensive prowess

        Cody Ross hit 14 HR in the 2 previous seasons before he went to Fenway, its more likely he hits 14 if he comes to Citifield

        Pagan would also likely hit 15 but offer much more in total offensive capability.

        Sorry bud…i hate to burst ur bubble…

        but Pagan >>> Ross + Ludwick

        Of course this means NOTHING since all 3 players will be employed by other teams

        I just like to rub in the fact that…

        Pagan >>> Ross + Ludwick
        • ifthevansrockin December 1, 2012 at 10:59 pm

          it is only harder to hit HRs in. For a speed guy, if they are hitting line drives, they have a lot of room to run.

          hence pagan leading the league in triples, which is were a lot of his slugging came from.
          • Just_Da_Damaja December 2, 2012 at 3:21 am

            Yes, and when Cody Ross played in SF…he hit 14 HR with a couple of triples…

            Pagan had a few less HR’s, ALOT more doubles, ALOT more triples

            Ross benefited from a park that plays well for right handed hitters

            How is that any different from Justin Upton?

            Pagan in SF >>>>> Cody Ross in SF

            Pagan >>>> Cody Ross

            Again…none of these players are coming here…but its still fun to rub it in…
    • jessep December 1, 2012 at 4:21 pm

      “Ross has no speed, no power, plays good defense. Pagan has speed, power, plays good defense ( despite the occasional gaffe ). Ludwick has no speed, some power, plays awful defense”

      Ross has no power? Over the last 4 years he has averaged 19 HR and 72 RBI
      Over the last 4 years Pagan has averaged 8 HR and 53 RBI.

      where do you get off saying Ross has no power but Pagan has power?

      Ludwick who you say has “some power” has averaged 23HR and 87 RBI over the last 4 year

      You’re so full of it.
      • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 4:39 pm

        Ross has no power?
        Over the last 4 years he has averaged 19 HR and 72 RBI
        Over the last 4 years Pagan has averaged 8 HR and 53 RBI.

        Cody Ross – 2010 – 14 HR
        Cody Ross – 2011 – 14 HR
        Cody Ross – 2012 – 22 HR

        Cody’s offensive oWar in 2012 was 1.9
        Pagan’s offensive oWar in 2012 was 4.5

        Pagan had MORE doubles, more triples, more SB, more TB, and played in a pitchers park….played in a division FULL of pitchers parks..

        Cody’s Total War in 2012 was 1.6
        Pagan’s Total War in 2012 was 4.0

        MORE THAN DOUBLE

        But I’m the one thats full of it

        Would you like me to further embarras you ?
• Angelo. November 30, 2012 at 3:18 pm

  As much as i respect him as a player , there is no need for pagan here
  • BadBadLeroyBrown November 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    “As much as i respect him as a player , there is no need for pagan here”

    NO NEED??? For a team where the GM said publicly when asked about his teams Outfield he replied, “WHAT OUTFIELD????”

    They shouldve never let him go for what they received in return. And this isnt 2nd guessing because I hated the trade when it was 1st announced.

    With that said bringing him back would be ridiculous for this front office since when they let him go they stated the reason was because he didnt want to follow the teams new philosophy/approach and didnt get along with TC that great I think it was due to him not wanting to lead off. Dont remember 100%
    • Joey D. November 30, 2012 at 7:07 pm

      Hi Bad Boy,

      Another thing to consider is that it appears Sandy Alderson would never swallow his pride and admit to having totally made a mistake. When things go wrong (like they always do) it is always something else – the PPPA, the player under-performing as opposed to previous years, a lack of money, etc.

      Besides, the talk about Angel is just idle gossip that makes news in order for one to scoop the other. As Marshall McLuhan would say, it’s news from nowhere.
      • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 8:59 am

        sandy did trade away ricky henderson…only to trade back for him…then traded him again…then signed him as a free-agent….same with dave stewart..

        if anyone has a problem sucking their pride its the wilpons

        i like Sandy as a COO of the team, someone who regulates the finances and legal stuff, does all the talking to the public….

        but I like a guy like Omar as the GM

        if they could ever manage a Sandy + Omar tandem, I think they would’ve complimented each other really well here.
        • ifthevanisrockin December 1, 2012 at 9:15 am

          Welcome to the club. If you look at the problems Sandy really was sent in to address, they were predominantly financial, organization, ssytemic. Pretty much things that fall into the COO job normally. But since that job was taken by the kid, they had to make him GM instead
• Little Nicky November 30, 2012 at 3:31 pm

  I say bring the walls in closer and lets forget this whole speed and defense park if we are not going to get players that have speed.
  • K Maxx November 30, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    That’s not going to happen. Alderson isn’t big on speed or defense. Walks and more walks. Patience is a virtue type hitters.
• Met fan for life November 30, 2012 at 4:22 pm

  I wish we could get Cody Ross, Josh Hamilton, Mike Napoli and Jose Bautista. But everyone knows none of those players are coming to the mets unless their is some HUGE trade or let go, like getting rid of johan’s contract.
• sarge69 November 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm

  Pagan should not have been traded last year, agree with you BBLB, what we got from Torres we would of gotten from Pagan for one year, same as Torres and seriously believe that Angel despite his mental miscues would not be hitting under .200 from LH side as Torres was.

  This move, I believe, was an attempt by SA to put a stamp on his “legacy” by showing he could get 2 good, servicible players for 1, and it blew up.

  I know that if Cap Kirk is to grow and learn at this level he needs to play but having a better lead off hitter this year would of really helped team.
• srt November 30, 2012 at 5:14 pm

  Rubin often has his ear to the ground but he and/or his sources are not always right:

  ‘This is not meant to incite a riot, but it’s not hard to picture David Wright in a Braves uniform in 2014.’

  — Adam Rubin (@AdamRubinESPN) August 10, 2012
• TruthsaboutMurphy November 30, 2012 at 5:41 pm

  Pagan isn’t coming back. It’s not even worth thinking about. The mets won’t pay big bucks for a player they gave away just one year ago…

  Next!!!
  • Joe D December 1, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    That’s not what I heard. As a matter of fact, don’t rule it out because I can assure you he’s on the Mets radar.
• TruthsaboutMurphy November 30, 2012 at 5:47 pm

  I think they should put Juan Centeno in CF, Valdespine at SS, Flores in left, Tejada to second, have Murphy roam the outfield to back up all three outfielders, let Ike Davis pitch and just run to first after every pitch.

  My plan, four outfielders and no starting pitchers…

  They’ll save a fortune!!! And lose a lot, but were use to that anyway.
• Trs86 November 30, 2012 at 5:50 pm

  If you want to bring back a CF then go get Carlos Gomez.
  • Matt M November 30, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    Count me in. I would love it.
• Metsie November 30, 2012 at 7:13 pm

  I don’t know what sources said this but it will never happen and if it did it would basically be Sandy coming out and admitting he screwed up, shouldn’t have traded him and bought out the remaining arbitration years instead.

  Could have gotten him for 4-5 Mil per for the next 3 or 4 years as opposed to what he will have to pay him now.
  • Stick November 30, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    He had no more arbitration years, otherwise the Giants would have just offered it. He was hitting FA now anyway. So there was nothing to buy out.

    And no reason to assume he would never bring a guy back. Been done before.
    • Metsie November 30, 2012 at 11:25 pm

      Except last year’s arb year and the next two potential FA years for about 5 Mil per….

      Which is what his ARb number last year was 5.5M if I’m not mistaken.

      You could have gotten him on a 3 year deal for about 4 Mil…

      How much will he cost now?
• Greg Pomes November 30, 2012 at 9:11 pm

  I would welcome back Pagan. I didn’t want to trade him last year at all as I was one of the few Angel Pagan fans. He was a valuable piece to the Giants this past season. He fills an outfield need and can hit leadoff which is something the Mets also need.

  I know Alderson and especially Collins didn’t like him too much because his colitis acted up in a game so I doubt he’ll be back but it would be nice.
• Hitman December 1, 2012 at 11:27 am

  If he has managed to leave his mental lapses behind, why not? I just hope that when he does come back, it’s gonna be Roger Cedeno part deux (if you remember Cedeno’s 2nd run with the Mets, you’ll get it).
  • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    thats b/c in NYC u remember every lil mistake

    In SF, Pagan made the same amount of mistakes, they just dont cry and moan about it the way we do
• jessep December 1, 2012 at 11:32 am

  I’d rather trade something for a player like Rajai Davis for CF who I doubt will cost a ton in the trade market and doesn’t lock the Mets into a longterm deal on an average player.

  He does exactly what Pagan would do yet he’s faster and probably wouldn’t cost a big prospect or anything since Toronto’s OF is a little crowded now.
  • Believer December 1, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Rajai Davis has a .290 OBP in last 3 years, why trade anyone for that?

    He’s two years older than Pagan and not even close to him offensively. Plus he is in his walk year and just a rental.

    The Jays moved him officially to left field because he was a liability in center, and his .965 FP was among the worst in the AL for left fielders.

    His UZR last three years is -5.4, -6.9, -8.5. Imagine that in Citi Field plus no arm?

    He does not do exactly what Pagan does, actually he is in fact worse in every aspect of his game except perhaps speed, but he’s a terrible base stealer and led league in caught stealing.
    • jessep December 1, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      not that it matters but his OBP over the last 3 years is .309, not .290
      • ifthevansrockin December 1, 2012 at 4:36 pm

        Only about 20 points lower than pagan. He does pretty well stink though.

        Oh, he is only 9 months older than pagan, so if Davis is too old for you, don’t go multi years on Davis!
        • Bayonne Mets Fan December 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm

          Angel Pagan is the type of player you pay money to get hits and drive in runs. His OBP is not important.

          Angel is more of a number 2 hitter or 6 hitter. Those are guys you want to be able to handle the bat, be versatile, and when he’s in the 6 spot he becomes more of a run producer. No need for him to get a walk in the 6th spot unless you have 7 & 8 hitters you can count on to bring him on. Another case where a person uses OBP in description of a player when that part of his game is the LEAST thing you’re gonna pay him millions of dollars for.
          • Just-Da-Damaja December 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm

            Pagan is Rickey Henderson compared to Davis

            In 7 years Davis has accumulated a 5.0 in oWar, Pagan LAST YEAR had a oWar over 4

            These anti-los-mets folks would recommend ANYONE not south of Miami or with a latino sounding name
• Joey D. December 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm

  Even though both teams play in New York, it used to be just the Yankees people spoke about in terms of players not being able to hack it in the Big Apple, not the Mets.

  So I guess that means in this one sense, we’ve caught up to the Bronx Bombers.