24
2012
The Tide Is Shifting: Alderson Will Be Held Accountable This Offseason
An article by 72MetsFan
It’s my first morning back home after spending three days in Saratoga, NY where some of my family resides and where we celebrated the Thanksgiving holiday. It’s always nice when the entire family gets together again for those 2-3 occasions a year where we eat, have fun, and catch up with everyone on everything. I come from a family whose loyalties are evenly divided at 50/50 when it comes to being a Mets or Yankees fan, and for all the guys, baseball and football talk rules the roost at these rare family gatherings.
The last time I saw most of my cousins was last Easter weekend. Back then we all had many of the same concerns we have now, but were excited that the 2012 season had just gotten underway. For a couple of days we scrutinized all of the offseason moves like losing Jose Reyes, the Frank Francisco signing and of course the Angel Pagan trade, and all 7-8 of us were relieved that the Madoff Lawsuit had been settled. I’d say everyone in the room including myself felt bad for Sandy Alderson and the situation he inherited, but as die-hard Met fans we were mostly focused at what was happening on the field. The Mets won that day as we beat the Braves 7-5 and they were off to a 3-0 start. Tejada had four hits in the game, Jon Niese picked up his first win of the season, and Francisco got the save. It was a great game.
However, this weekend the mood was much more somber. We reminisced about the Johan Santana no-hitter and about the great season R.A. Dickey had, but there was a lot of tension and pent up frustration in the air. Soon the conversation shifted to the direction of the team, and it seemed whatever sympathy points Sandy Alderson had built up over his first two years? They were now clearly spent and gone.
We all agreed he bailed out on the team at the trade deadline. When he didn’t respond to the Frank Francisco injury followed by Santana going on the DL and then losing Dillon Gee, the enjoyment of the season essentially ended for us. We all sensed how things were going to go after that and the Mets, with no able-bodied help on the way, went into a tailspin that ended all wild card hopes and decimated the rest of their season. For many of us, the team had lost their motivation, enthusiasm and will to win.
I don’t know how the people in your extended Mets family feel, but after the last few days I came away with the feeling that there has been a seismic shift in how we feel about Sandy Alderson and how he’s being viewed now. We are all watching this offseason like hawks. We all heard the promises made, we have seen the evidence that the Wilpons are on their way to fiscal health, and our tolerance for failure and a lack of trying is now down to zero. This offseason is all on Alderson. All of it.
The hot stove season is already underway, and we are hoping to see if the GM holds true to his promises. We are looking for him to apply all the experience he’s accrued in his baseball career, and using all these much heralded player evaluation skills he’s received so much acclaim for. We’re giving him a pass on that awful Angel Pagan trade, and bad signings like Francisco, Rauch, Paulino, just about all of them save Scotty Hairston. But one thing is certain, unlike his first two years running the Mets, there will be an accountability for the 2013 season that wasn’t there before. He will be held reponsible for how the 2013 season plays out.
I like Sandy, but for his sake and the future of this team, I hope he realizes how much is riding on this offseason as compared to his first two. I don’t believe my family is very unique in expecting more from him. I’m starting to believe that many Mets fans are feeling the same exact way. There is definitely a disturbance in the Force.
About the Author: Drew Staley
On June 1, 2012 Johan Santana officially became my favorite current Met! I'm a Queens native who grew up in the shadows of Big Shea. I was a huge Ron Darling, Dave Magadan and John Olerud fan. Honored to be a part of such a great site for Mets fans. Ya Gotta Believe!
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The honeymoon is over,it’s time to go back to work and bring home a paycheck.
I know it’s just an expression, but truth be told, there was never a honeymoon when it comes to Alderson.
Either way Appeasement or keep expenses in check he will be held accountable.
No more wait until………
This franchise has to have a plan besides grin and bear it. It is tolerable to lose while rebuilding although not fun. But to not acquire players who can help and not rebuild is the worst scenario.
Actually I have a major change of opinion and feel we can keep Dickey and Wright (sign them to extensions at FMV) and compete 2013 with: Pitching (SP) Speed, Defense and strong up the middle. We do not Stanton or a hot rookie prospect catcher. We need two guys with speed, a better than avg defensive CF who can manufacture runs with speed on defense and SB on offense and a defensive catcher who can drive in a minimum of 50 runs. Of course we need a bullpen.
We have the SP which was tops in the majors with 101 QS. This was with Harvey only briefly here and Wheeler on his way.
Excellent post and not the usual list of gripes accompanied by the rants of a lunatic Met fan. I hope for Alderson’s sake the the third try is a charm.
Accountable by who?
The fans? lol
Alderson answers to Bud Selig…
The Wilpons laugh at you
For the most part, These folks operate as if they have a 50,000 foot view of it’s fans…
For Jeff Wilpon to open his mouth and say that the 2nd best option is to let David and RA play out the season is exhibit A-B and C
I’m not anti-Sandy
I just think Sandy is a legal and financial expert who was brought in to help the mets find a path to contributing to the MLB pool of finances again instead of being a taker…
To put him in the same breath as Andrew in Tampa, Billy Beane or Theo or even Omar is idiotic
There is a reason why there was a mutual disinterest in Sandy Alderson being a GM again after 1997
Sandy has not wanted to be a GM
No team has wanted Sandy to be their GM
The only other team that did employ him ( the padres ) had a owner going through a divorce and they sold the team months after Sandy stepped down..Sandy helped clean their finances…he ( once again ) brought in his boy DePo, who was canned in LA months earlier….DePo….was absolutely HORRIBLE in SD…
Sandy comes to NY…and brings his pet poodle DePo once again….and pet poodle #2 JP…who begin to bring in their former players…
Allen Dykstra ( drafted by DePo )
Brad Eamus ( drafted by JP )
Hell, after hooking him up with a job in Oakland, Sandy then hires his son to work as a scout here…
Lets ignore the fact that when Omar did this with the Julio Franco’s of the world, the radio was flooded with complaints of the team changing it’s “identity”…now Sandy / JP/Depo do it…and the media ignores it…so the sheep…follow suit…
( thats a different convo for a another day…)
My expectations of Sandy were low to begin with…and he has not impressed me in the ways I thought he was going to….
he actually failed to meet my below average expectations of him…
LGM
Has there ever been a GM who was fired that didn’t lose the trust of the fanbase first?
I see where you’re coming from, but you talk as though you’re not from the NY area. Many a GM got run out of town by the fans. You’re giving us too little credit which means that you either haven’t been watching closely or are not from the area.
Your statement of true about the fans but several points de-emphasixe that: using the Knicks with a similar quirky meddlesome owner.
James Dolan took a while to get rid of a very unpopular Isiah Thomas and almost hired him back
Donnie Walsh accomplished his mission of getting Knicks under the cap and then quitr/retire. SA may do the same. Both Wash and Alderson were put in charge of their respective teams by commissioners to straighten out NY Mess. The Wilpons/Katz survived the Picard lawsuit and are out of danger of being forced to sell. SA’s replacements are already here.
Most important SA did Selig a favor by taking the job and the Wilpons allegiance to Selig they will never fire SA. SA will quit and probably after this year. Mission accomplished ther Wilpons survived. SA is the financial effenciency expert who made it happen on the P&L and not on the field.
HOWEVER THE FANS CAN HAVE INPUT BY STAYING AWAY.
THIS ^^^^
JDD,
Can’t argue with your points. Ultimately, he will have to answer to the fans if enough of them have the you-know-whats to speak with their feet if he does not improve the team.
This article is accurate. Mets fans have had enough of the semantics. Sandy either shits or gets off the pot.
Spot on, Drew. You read my mind.
Sandy A accountable to the fans? That is a joke!
For the hundreth time…..Sandy is here because he was thrust upon the Mets in order to allow the Wilpon’s to keep the franchise. His job was to slash payroll in order to keep a sinking ship afloat. He agreed to take the job and to determine what was the best direction for the future of this team. You can’t possibly believe that Fred Wilpon wasn’t within a whisper of being forced to sell.
Strong starting pitching is the answer….always has been and always will be the best way to compete and we are on that road. There are other holes to fill but it looks like it will take another year to do so. In the meantime, our pressing issues are David Wright and R.A. Dickey. If we get them both signed or end up trading and getting good value then we will hopefully be moving forward towards having money for the best free agents that fill our needs!
We had a good first half of 2012 and most of us were excited by it. I think we can do even better this year if we retain both David and R.A. unless trading them for proven talent ends up being the way we go. We are not gonna beat the Nats or the Braves for the playoff picture as things stand but we can be moving forward till the cash situation changes!
‘Sandy is here because he was thrust upon the Mets in order to allow the Wilpon’s to keep the franchise. His job was to slash payroll in order to keep a sinking ship afloat. He agreed to take the job and to determine what was the best direction for the future of this team. You can’t possibly believe that Fred Wilpon wasn’t within a whisper of being forced to sell.’
No argument from me on this.
great article. couldn’t agree more.
Well if this offseason is really the make or break moment then he’s already done….
Most GMs don’t make it to the brink and then bring themselves back.
By the time the Fans start having doubts he is already done. Those doubts will remain and just wait until the next adversity strikes to pounce.
Only a playoff could save him now and does even his biggest booster thinks thats in the cards this season?
Hardly.
No one ever claimed Omar was savior when he got hired and he made great strides by signing Beltran and Pedro right off the bat, Then made it to the playoffs a year later…
It took two short years to spend that goodwill and have the fans turn on him.
Sandy hasn’t even done THAT much well.
He’s done, on life support it’s only a matter of time before he gets the boot and many of his defenders become lurkers due to thier embarassment for pledging such allegiance to a guy who has essentially for three years done NOTHING but trade an All Star/Future HOF for a Kid Pitcher.
Metsie you’re totally disregarding the Selig connection : SA directly to Selig and the Wilpons indirectly to Selig. SA will have left on his own volition before Selig leaves as commissioner. He has his henchmen in place. You are dreaming he will be fired as I am dreaming we will have ne owners Both events ain’t happning.
And your totally disregarding that the only thing Selig had on the Wilpons is gone…
They paid off that loan last year and could fire Sandy tomorrow if they wanted to and Selig couldn’t say boo or hurt them in any way!
I for one, have been patient to the point of defending him. I will say it is absolutely put up or shut up time! This is the season in my book, not 2014 or 15 or… I will hold judgement until the season plays out but I expect play off contention this season be it through trades, free agency, unforseen development of the current players, whatever. 2013 is the season I need to see it or I too turn against this regime.
I like Sandy, I think it is time to restock the minors, we should be producing major league ready, and occasionally above average performers every couple of years like every other major league team.
Look at Votto, Tulowitzki, Braun, etc, even guys like corey hart for example. What players besides Wright and Reyes can the mets say they have produced EVER?? I know about Seaver etc, but we never produce any big time position players. btw, I don’t think as highly of Wright as most people do.
Your point is valid, but you’re forgetting Darryl Strawberry
What about Edgardo Alfonso? If I had to choose between Strawberry and Alfonso in their prime I think I’d take Alfonso. Alfonso is one of the best homegrown Mets of all time
Lenny Dykstra was a big reason for the success of the 1986/1988 Mets. He was home grown.
Mookie Wilson may not fit the criteria for the saber goons but their take on it is really insignificant. It does not take away from the fact that Mookie Wilson is one of the most important home grown Mets of all time.
Jon Niese, Matt Harvey, Ruben Tejada and Ike Davis don’t look too shabby if we’re just asking for future Corey Harts (or better).
That said, this franchise is undergoing the equivalent of Baseball chemo therapy right now. After 25 years or so of mostly shortterm thinking, paying for today with tomorrow’s money ( or even tomorrow’s fake money as Bernie Madoff business partners),
Besides needing a functional farm system and organizational philosophy, it’ s important to look ahead 3 years when determining today’s action ( or inactivity for that matter). That wasn’t really the case here over the past 25 years. Is it now ? Well, that’s debatable. At least not a single move made so far by this front office has had a measurable negative impact on 2014 and beyond so far.
Instead of continueing to chase that ” one ( or three) missing piece(s)”, the Mets have finally been force to stop an ill-fated chase without a real foundation.
With all due respect, this team wasn’t making the 2011 or 2012 playoffs by keeping Carlos Beltran or Francisco Rodriguez in 2011 or – even worse – trading significant prospects to supplement such a run in both years.
There’s a ton of nice upside pitching depth up & down the farm system. And that will ultimatelyu be the the key in getting things turned around here eventually, probably by 2014 or 2015.
Not dramatic trades of the teams ‘ s best players for prospects or signing BJ and trading for Justin Upton.
And while the current OF is terrible, it doesn’t take the Upton brothers to fix this – just getting a couple of average players instead of he replacement level dreck that was playing for most of 2012 ( and no, Beltran & Pagan weren’t options financially). Whether this works remains to be seen but the odds seem pretty good leaving rhetoric aside for a moment.
Well said. It’s now crunch time for Sandy and I expect him to pull not one but a couple of rabbits out of his hat at the Winter Meetings. I think Murphy, Ike, Duda, Niese, Wright and Dickey could be traded and a few of them won’t be here next Spring.
so you want to trade Ike, Niese, Duda, etc. So you want to interrupt the rebuilding so you can wait longer and rebuild again?
Rebuilding? Is that what you think we’ve been doing in the last two years? You see I thought we were just cutting payroll and righting the ship for ownership. I think the rebuilding will actually begin now, or at least I hope it does. And trading some old faces for new faces is something I clearly expect to happen this Winter. This still isn’t Alderson’s team. Aside from Wheeler, he hasn’t really put his stamp on it. I suspect he will beginning at the Winter Meetings.
Agreed. It’s time for him to start being more active, and I think he will unless there is something with ownership going on that we don’t know about. The next~ 6 months are very important
With all due respect Bay,
Ike, Duda, and to a much lesser degree Niese are not cornerstones or deal breakers (again, it would take much more for Niese) for the right player. I like Ike but I think he could be replaced and the jury is still somewhat out on him. I think a replacing a slow footed, terrible defensive (either in the OF or 1b) that may(a big MAY) some day reach 30 ish hr power but is over passive and may hit 270 ish at best is very replacable. As you can tell I am not a big fan of Duda’s, I hope I’m wrong but he reminds me of Kevin Maas.
Hi Drew,
Though we both anticipate the worst (while hoping for the best) we do see the past differently.
Your thoughts are that Sandy Alderson is a professional baseball person with the talent to evaluate and make decisions, that he inherited a bad situation and now things are fiscally better for the Wilpons.
Many of us see Sandy as the corporate business person with the talent to evaulate and make fiscal decisions, that he inherited a not so bad situation as far as player personnel and that things are definitely not better for the Wilpons with their upcoming debt re-financed but not unchanged and not having replaced both the half billion capital investment they lost with Madoff and the high annual dividends they were receiving for more than two decades.
As Alan, SRT and others have pointed out, Sandy is here because the Wilpons were on the brink of bankruptcy. Selig took steps on behalf of the Wilpons which were extraordinary for one in his capacity, including that Fred hire Sandy. Don’t forget that shortly before Sandy was hired they needed a $25 million loan from MLB just to meet their expenses for the end of the month so even if the public was unaware of how deep the Wilpons’ financial trouble was, Selig was very much on top of the situation. And they couldn’t pay it back on time and got number of extensions. Still, they then needed another bridge loan to meet end of the month expenses once again. That loan could not have been obtained unless approved by the Commissioner.
Sandy Alderson has an executive level background in law and business. He was hired not to save the Mets but to save the Mets for the Wilpons for the organization was in so much debt and so short in capital that drastic and unpopular moves had to be made. His concern is for the well being of the owners and if that means having to sacrifice fielding a competitive team to achieve that, so be it.
It now seems quite reasonable to conclude that we took the extreme measures of getting rid of KRod and Beltran when the Mets were in the wildcard because of what we now know (as many of us at the time had speculated) about the Wilpon’s desperate need to reduce costs immediately in order to meet their monthly obligations due to operational money being extremely tight (remember it came to the point that they needed that second bridge loan). It could be said that over the remaining course of the season with the Mets POSSIBLY still in the wildcard hunt that could have POSSIBLY resulted in more fans in the stands and more revenue – enough to compensate for what was owed to those two players and then some. However, the revenue was both not guaranteed and would have been compensated over a period of time and as we know, the Mets were having trouble just meeting their end of the month obligations.
Rebuilding was the least expensive option Sandy had because that rebuilding meant no costly players and nothing else. Rebuilding also sounds much better than dismantling and downsizing which is all Sandy was really doing.
It’s seems the only way the Mets can resolve their problems on the field is with people in the owner’s box. The Wilpons are not going to be able to field a competitive team with the fiscal resources they currently have open to them. Years down the road when some of the debt is paid off and more financial institutions are willing to give them loans to again re-invest in the team, yes, but not right now. They might be able to weather that financial storm in the long-term which is what Sandy is trying to do for them and in the meantime all we as fans can hope for is that the holes in the outfield and bullpen can be filled by the kids coming up from the minors and quickly succeeding all at once A tall order – how often does an Oakland or Tampa Bay come along?
As it is, the selling of their minority shares (which came mostly from SNY) has been used up completely and Sandy has talked about the Mets projected to being able to meet their financial obligations only through next year.
So to those very unhappy with Alderson, what would you do or have done differently vs Alderson – with the premise that the ownership group has severe cash flow problems and the payroll cap is in the 95 million $ range for now.
Ok, some apparently seem to think keeping Beltran in July 2011 and letting KRod’s 17.5 million $ option vest being ” only” 6 games out of the WC race would have been the right call.
It’s tough to see a 2011 playoff appearance even by holding onto them – but maybe trading Matt Harvey for another frontline SP would have helped such an I’ll- fated run.
And with KRod on the 2012 books, I suppose David Wright then gets traded for Peter Bourjos last winter to still be able to pay 2012 salaries on time ?
In any case, yes Sandy Alderson so far has been C.R.O. first and GM second. Which doesn’t mean that the decisions made have been bad. They basically have all made sense (except for signing Jon Rauch maybe) even if some haven’t worked.
Did anyone expect Alderson to land a bunch of All Star searching through the winter free agent waste bins with about 10 to 15 million to spend per winter on 6 to 7 roster holes ???
The Mets, due to financial restrictions, have been in a rebuilding for the past couple of years. How many prospects have they traded and how many draft picks lost due to free agent signings in that span ? Bingo. ZERO.
And instead Zach Wheeler, Michael Fulmer, Kevin Plawecki, Matt Reynolds and Adrian Rosario are with the organizations in exchange for Carlos Beltran, Pedro Feliciano, José Reyes and Francisco Rodríguez, plus roughly 50 million $ in annual salary relief.
Yes, with those moves an expensive 85 win caliber non playoff team has been turned into a less expensive 75 Win caliber non playoff team. However, the odds for a playoff team between 2014 and 2016 are improved.
No one accepts your premise because we all feel that the way to fix the finances is not to cut spending but to increase revenues.
im about worn out hearing the about the brilliance in this front office. its time to get creative and show some of it. the wilpons still need to sell and until then i expect more of the same. it all starts at the top and the head is rotten. bud selig has done the met fan no favors in his enabling his broke friend. look at how quickly the dodger situation changed, mostly due to the fact that frank mccourt wasn’t in the good graces of the old boys club. alderson need to thrive even under this bad situation i am out of patience with regards to this team. get it done
The Wilpons´ aren´t going to sell in all likelihood, unfortunately. As much as we would want that to happen. Barring a personal finanial collapse of Sterling Enterprises & Co. (which doesn´t seem totally unrealistic but still unlikely), they will keep control of the franchise as friends of Bud Selig.
Which doesn´t preclude the current front office from trying to build this team the right way within the financial circumstances dealt to them. And it has nothing to do with “brilliance” or “incompetence” but rather realism.
Realistically, there won´t be any miracles happening.
Sure, once in a while you run into a bargain – say Chris Capuano or Scott Hairston. However, in general, you get what you pay for in free agency (though paying a lot in free agency usually isn´t the solution either).
If you want to have one very big reason why this team has struggled over the past 20+ years (3 playoff appearances since 1988 !), look no further than the utter inability to develop pitching over that time span. And I´m not even talking ace SP or # 3 starters, but rather depth in the bullpen or at the back-end of the rotation. If you want a valid reason for the number of collapses in recent history, one big reason has been the lack of pitching from within being available. Quick: Name 5 legit relievers that the Mets have gotten to the majors through their system between 2000 and 2012 ? Parnell, Joe Smith, Aaron Heilman, maybe (if you want to call him homegrown) Pedro Feliciano and…., err ? That´s 4 relievers – none of them dominating late inning forces – over a dozen years.
This is apparently changing. The depth in high to solid upside arms in the system is impressive – thanks BOTH to the latter half of the Omar Minaya era AND the job the current front office his done.
So instead of the Omar vs. Sandy BS (in a totally different financial landscape with a totally different task at hand), be happy both did well recently getting arms into the system. And those arms will decide about the longterm success of this franchise.
Not who the owners are or whether the 2015 payroll is 100 million or 150 million $.
heath bell was a met prospect you forgot but point well taken
True, Bell is the 5th – still for a dozen years a brutally low outcome.
a dozen years?
try 25
The Met continual success def depends on the owners.
You can draft and develop whoever you want…
But if the owner is listening to the guy he knows from his childhood ( Bill Levesy was Jeff Wilpon’s childhood batting instructor )
and opts to trade that top prospect for Victor Zambrano…
the owner ( esp THIS owner ) can def take a dump on the GM’s work
You can go as far back as Kevin Mitchell…top prospect…not liked by Fred Wilpon…traded immediately
Then look at Gary Sheffield…who had a close relationship with the Wilpons dating back to his youth….
Since 2003, there were stories linking Gary with the Mets…
So in 2009, when the new humongous ball-park opens up…who did we have in RF? None other than a 74 year old Gary Sheffield…
who the Mets signed to basically draw in the 49 fans who cared about Gary cracking the 500 HR mark
they then proceeded to air highlights of this HR as if ANYONE on earth cared about it….
This is why they opted to ignore Pudge in 2004 instead of telling Piazza he is going to have to break that HR mark for catchers in another uniform or another lifetime…
Winning is rarely at the top of the list
It’s usually a circus act tailored to raising next week’s attendance
This video pretty much summarizes everything you need to know as to why we will suck forever with the Wilpons as owners
bit.ly/R8Jnuk