The words you use like “if”, “probably” and “would’ve” do not speak in fact – the are congruent to speculation.

Unlike Keith and Ron, Rigney had an extensive resume way beyond being a color commentator – he was a coach, manager, scout and club executive. These are facts, not speculation.

And it wasn’t until 1990 that Rigney began working under Sandy Alderson. Prior to that he didn’t.

Sandy Alderson – Vice President of Baseball Operations
Bill Rigney – Assistant to the President, Baseball Matters
Bill Rigney 1990 – Assistant to the Executive Vice President, Baseball Matters

Facts, not speculation.

Baseball “operations” and baseball “matters” are two different areas. And an assistant to the President is not an assistant to the general manager. Facts, not speculation.

Walter Hass:

1989 Owner/Executive Vice President
1990 Owner/Managing General Partner

After the ’89 season, Hass’s responsibilities changed and it was then that Rigney because an assistant under Sandy. Facts, not speculation.

In 1991 Rigney went into semi retirement and his title changed from that of an executive position:

1991 – Assistant, Baseball Matters. Fact, not speculation.

And one involved in every player move has to work with the general manager if the GM is indeed in charge of brainstorming actual player decisions. But Rigney did not work under or alongside the general manager – he worked directly under the owner. And his title is “matters” while the GM’s title is “operations”. Again, two different areas, two different departments. Fact, not speculation.

And when you mention “I’ve already shown you links that He was consulting Eisenhardt and Sandy which is why Sandy said he was involved in every major move not the one calling the shots”, what you surmize happened based on those links does not even take into account that it was in 1990 that Rigney’s position changed due to a re-organization in Oakland and then a year later went into semi-retirement as an Assistant, Baseball Matters. Fact, not speculation – and misuse of information as well.

They talk about Baseball and can talk specifics about Players….

When Sandy speaks it’s all about prccess and philosophy which shows he doesn’t care what they are doing only only how they fit into the PROCCESS!

The sign of a GM who is disconnected from the players and only concerned with the Corporate Mantra and Procedures.

See what I mean about it best to avoid making personal remarks? While it might not seem out of place to one, one never knows how the other is going to take it. What might have been meant only as a harmless bit of light levity could easily cause another’s feelings to be hurt – especially here at MMO since we all have very passionate feelings about our favorite team. Then things go back and forth and eventually it doesn’t matter who said what or when – the ill will has already been formulated.

You both seem like great guys and I know how upsetting things could get when a conversation can become so personal – especially when the ridicule becomes so bad to the point of humiliation.

Wanna bury the hatchet? Hope you don’t want to use the hatchet on me instead for budding in

Let me start by first clarifying the lie you just portrayed. I did not call you, or the owner of the site haters. I’ll repeat in caps, I DID NOT CALL YOU OR THE OWNER OF THE SITE HATERS. How DARE you make that allegation? Truth be told, prior to my post yesterday I didn’t even know who you were, let alone who the owner of the site was. Your allegation was just mere conjecture on how YOU percieved a vague statement I made about haters, without identifying or pointing a finger at anyone other than perhaps the writer of the article I was commenting on. How DARE you try to besmirch me with this lie while you yourself stooped to the same level of name calling. Who appointed you to police this site? Or are you the self appointed defender of all who agree with you. If thats the case, I would chew you up and spit you out in a court of law based on what you’re able to present to prove your allegations. You should be ashamed of yourself. You my friend are totally out of control and took this way too far. I am done……I’m going back to baseball, where I choose channel all my energies instead of defending myself from your lies.

We both know what Sandy did and didn’t do in Oakland is pertinent to the question at hand. If he wasn’t the one responsible for re-building that Oakland club then how could he be considered one to be hired to re-build the Mets as well? There is so much evidence it seems that by being the public figure for Oakland, many put two and two together without doing any vetting.

Agree with them or not, when we’d hear a Brian Cashman or an Omar Minya talk about baseball, it is obvious these guys know the inside game. That is certainly not the case with Sandy and should be proof enough.

I suggest somebody get the courage to tweet Sandy and ask him to what extent he meant by Bill Rigney being involved in all the player moves. That would be more polite than to imply to Sandy we don’t think he did anything regarding personnel moves in Oakland for at least a decade. I’ll admit…., I’m too shy! LOL

The Pagan trade turned out bad but he wasn’t getting you back anything better coming off 2011 when he forgot how to catch a flyball and threw to unoccupied bases. He should’ve been dealt after 2010.

K-Rod was not getting you back anything decent with that option hanging over his head and all he needed was to finish 21 more games thanks to Collins using him finish blowout games and non save situations. Every team had a chance to sign K-Rod last offseason and he had to settle for arbitration. If his value was so high then why didn’t one team want him to close. he finished the season for Milwaukee in 2011 lights out.

Reyes got hurt 3 weeks before the deadline so there went that. You want to get something good back for the future lke a Wheeler then you better be prepared to give up Ike and Niese. Your not getting back a haul for Wright or Dickey with one year of control and for Wright you’ll have to send cash to get back a top prospect. Each guy will bring back 1 top prospect or multiple B prospects. You want multiple prospects then you’ll have to part with Niese, Harvey, Wheeler and to a lesser extent Ike.

You keep saying that may of you contend that he wasn’t the one who built the team in Oakland but it’s only 2 people that have ever made that claim it’s not many of you. And TRS is right. The 80′s A’s and the present Mets have 2 entirely different situations. So what and how he did things back then has nothing to do with what he’s doing here.

Nice job on this piece.

A few thoughts for you:

- The Pedro signing… I 100% agree with you that at the time it sent a message, but if you look back on it today and look at the other teams in baseball who “sent a message” by overpaying for talent, where did they end up? I’m not faulting Minaya for doing it, I’m merely saying that you can look at teams such as Marlins and Dodgers for example – teams that made big flashy moves to prove a point and what happened?

I’ve said this before and I will say it again. I supported Omar Minaya more than 90% of the people applauding your article here did. However, to be fair – he was the GM of a team that had 2 young potential stars ready to make their name known and an owner that was ready to spend. Not a bad gig.

Omar’s biggest flaw was without a doubt that he allowed 2006 and then 2007 to alter his vision for the Mets. He spent pre-07 and pre-08 and pre-09 worrying about that “one piece away.” And to be fair, so did we fans.

I agree with this statement “Think about it. Just a few years ago, we spent winters hoping to IMPROVE. Now we spend winters simply not wanting to get any worse.” But I also believe you need to recognize Minaya’s role in that after the fact. I’m not saying it’s all his fault, but I am saying he had a hand in today’s problems.

I believe and I hope that the things done or not done today are with a vision of the future and understanding that you can’t go all in via free agency no matter the cost and expect longterm success. It takes a little time to fix the wounds of yesterday but if you can find a way to come out smarter and healthier then it’s a good thing – it may just sting while you peel the bandaid.

I think we’ll look back on the Alderson-era and understand it much more than we do today. I really do, but I hope the days of excitement than 06-08 brought are not too far away.

Want to end the conversation quickly and make a point that will stop the madness ask him this:

Why hasn’t Sandy won anything since Rigney left him?

Resectfully, what we have been provided is not evidence but speculation regarding Rigney’s responsibilities in Oakland during the years Sandy was the GM.

What we do know is that a General Manger is responsible for overseeing the entire operation of the business. What we also know as fact is that in Oakland Rigney did not work with or report to Sandy but to the owner instead. Adding to that is Sandy confirmng that Rigney was involved in every player move.

Under that type of organization structure it would not be possible for Rigney to be involved in every player move if that was the responsibility of Sandy Alderson and Rigney did not have to answer to him. For Rigney to be involved in the extensive work that goes into player evaluation, trades, signings, releases, etc. it would mean he would have to work in a capacity like DePodesta and Ricciardi do here in New York, where they report directly to the General Manger. There cannot be two departments independent of each other working on the same thing – that would only cause chaos, not order.

If his role was that of a consultant or adviser regarding player moves, then he would have to serve in that capacity under Sandy and not the owner for if any move Sandy made was contingent upon or nullifed based on the advise Rigney gave the owner that would be undermining Sandy’s power of authority.

How many years does it take before you realize all the waiting in the world won’t change a thing about how he operates?

He has had two tests so far and failed both!

He is currently taking his third test and how GOOD does he have to do on THIS test to nullify the other two?

If he has ONE good test do you ignore the other two completly and say he knows what he is doing?

What if that one good test is the outliar and the other two is what you can expect from him in most years?

You want to give him another year thats fine that seemed to be your ONLY point…

I’m saying for every year of crappy GMing you will have to sit through 5 years of suck trying to reverse the damage he has done while you were waiting to see if a two time failure could get it right the third time around so you could dismiss them on what could just be a fluke!

Do you really think I give a flying rats ass what a guy like Alex or anybody else for that matter thinks. Idiotic? Lol. Take a look at some of the ridiculous posts you write.