16
2012
Mets Wouldn’t Trade Jon Niese For Alex Gordon?
An article by 
John Harper of the Daily News asked a Mets source if Jon Niese would be enough to land Royals Gold Glove left fielder Alex Gordon. I was stunned to see the response he got.
But would they [the Mets] be better off trading Jonathon Niese than Dickey? As a 26-year-old lefthander who is under team control at $5 million-a-year for six more seasons, including two option years, Niese may have more trade value than Dickey, especially for small-market clubs.
When I asked one Mets person if he thought Niese would be enough to fetch the Royals’ Alex Gordon, a Gold Glove left fielder who led the majors with 51 doubles last season, he said he had no doubt.
“But I wouldn’t do it,” he said. “I’d rather keep the young arms and buy the bats (when the Mets have money to spend next winter).”
Wow. Can you imagine that?
Lets talk about Gordon’s defense first. There’s no doubt he is the best left fielder in the game. Gordon had 24 runs saved in 2012 to lead the majors, the next best left fielder had just nine runs saved. After setting a team record with 20 assists in 2011, Gordon had 17 outfield assists this past season.
As for Gordon’s offense, what’s not to like about a 294/.368/.455 slash with a major league leading 51 doubles, 5 triples, 14 home runs and 72 RBI in 642 at-bats?
If you want to look at this from a sabermetric point of view, Gordon posted a 125 OPS+ and he had a 6.2 WAR compared to a 3.1 for Jon Niese.
Look, I love Jon Niese. But when you consider the morbid state of the Mets outfield both at the major and minor league level, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize what a sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in. The same cannot be said for our pitching which has become a strength for the team.
Now there’s absolutely no shred of evidence that the Mets and Royals ever discussed such a swap, it was just a good reporter trying to get a good feel from a Mets source about their current mindset.
But in doing so, John Harper uncovered just how out of touch this Mets front office is regarding the value of their players versus the value of another organization’s players.
The Mets are completely over-valuing Niese’s potential, while under-valuing a young, productive outfielder with huge upside, that they so desperately need. That’s a critical flaw in my opinion. If this question by Harper was their GM SAT exam, they just failed. How many real instances of things like this have the Mets actually bobbled in the last two years? Remember Jon Heyman during last year’s Winter Meetings tweeting that other GM’s would rather not talk to the Mets because they have unrealistic expectations?
In July Alderson refused to trade utility outfielder Scott Hairston because he was holding out for team’s top prospect. But in the same breath he referred to what other teams wanted for their players as “too pricey”.
This front office also has a bad habit of not shopping around. I couldn’t believe the story Alderson told of how the K-Rod trade took about 10 minutes to consummate from beginning to end, and that it all took place over a cellphone call during a game and at the end of it K-Rod was gone. Or that the Angel Pagan trade went down right after he checked into his hotel room and learned that Jose Reyes had just signed with the Marlins. About an hour later Pagan was an ex-Met.
I’ve said this time and time again, but I feel strongly that the game has passed Sandy Alderson by. But there’s nothing wrong with that because you can say the same thing about 4-5 other Dinosaur Class GMs. The problem with Alderson though is that the rest of his entourage is comprised of his “Mini-Me’s”. Two assistants that he personally molded to think, walk and talk just like him. Both of whom were run out of town in their only jobs as General Managers. This is the scary part. It truly is a three-headed monster in the front office — and they all share the same brain.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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i would not give our lefty away , we will have some good years ahead with him
he is a very good number 3 starter and sure has the tools to get the 2nd Spot
I actually proposed Gordon as one of the three guys that the Mets should consider for Dickey…they should hang on to Niese
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1403470-mlb-trade-rumors-three-dream-trade-scenarios-for-ra-dickey
Why would the Royals do that? Yes that would be a dream for the Mets but a nightmare for the Royals. They need to get someone back just as young as Gordon and under team control as well. Your trade is now very well thought out.
I agree, Dickey would be best suited for a contending team…those three guys are the caliber player the Mets should be seeking or they’re better off keeping Dickey.
That’s the problem with cronyism and comprising a staff of all like-minded people. It’s hard to create a productive dynamic that can outpace the competition. This goes in any industry and not just baseball.
” but I feel strongly that the game has passed Sandy Alderson by. But there’s nothing wrong with that because you can say the same thing about 4-5 other Dinosaur Class GMs. The problem with Alderson though is that the rest of his entourage is comprised of his “Mini-Me’s”. Two assistants that he personally molded to think, walk and talk just like him. Both of whom were run out of town in their only jobs as General Managers. This is the scary part. It truly is a three-headed monster in the front office — and they all share the same brain”
But they all speak English so well
Uh oh….we’re heading down that road again
One word… GULP!
I think you’re being a little too hard on Alderson. The K-Rod trade was a pure salary dump and the reason he moved quickly on it was because he noticed the loophole in Rodriguez’s no-trade clause.
The Pagan trade turned out to be a bad one, but at the time I recall the majority of Met followers thinking it was a good move.
As for “not shopping around,” Alderson had 3-4 teams in on Beltran and waited until one of them gave them the price he was looking for (Wheeler).
I don’t think it’s Alderson being “out of touch,” but rather he has a plan in place and wants to stick to it.
There wasnt a loophole, When Sandy went to see what 10 teams were on the NTC, he noticed the agent never sent him the list
K-Rod sued and just settled, the agency fired the agent, K-Rod might sue some more.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2012/10/31/francisco-rodriguez-lawsuit-settlement-with-former-agents/1673055/
Well you’re big on sabermetrics so naturally you’re going to like Alderson. It goes to together, regardless how awful a job Alderson has done.
“rather he has a plan in place and wants to stick to it.”
And what might that plan be ?
Build from within ?
We were playing Andres Torres, Fred Lewis, Jason Bay while Kirk and Valdy were vegetating
Mentor the young players?
Instead of signing a cheap wise old man off the bench to teach Thole, we went with Mike Nikeaus
Instead of resigning Izzy, who was said to have been great with Parnell and the pen…and taught Parnell the curveball that he uses well now…we let him go….
Restocking the minor leagues ?
On 4 different occasions we could’ve traded veterans for kids…and passed up on it
K-Rod
Reyes
Hairston
Byrdack
I think Alderson’s plan is harder to find than Romney’s tax returns
Good line on the plan vs. Romney tax returns. I agree. The plan so far is just empty talk. You are not building the system when you let the #2 pick walk over chump cahnge. You are not building the system when you have the worst AAA affiliate that no one else wants. Its time to walk the talk for Sandy and company.
Gordon would give this team the outfielder we desperately need and he’s cut out to be the perfect Citi Field player. I’d bat him third in the lineup and move Wright to cleanup and Ike Davis to fifth. That would be a pretty lethal 3-4-5.
Stop dreaming, Gordon is not an Alderson player, perhaps you will take a look at Cody Ross instead.
wrong maniac… did you see his OBP!?!?
Gordon is good but overrated and I would never give up Niese for him alone. I would have to get something else thrown in maybe catcher Salvador Perez or center fielder Jason Bourgeois.
I still wouldn’t trade him. If they are looking to trade him, I’d give the Royals prospects which is what they seem to covet more anyway. I’d give them Wheeler and Duda who becomes dispensable if we get Gordon.
This trade actually makes sense. KC is not a big market team and must rely on pre-arb players. The Mets have to realize that to get something they must give up something. They over value their prospects and no good deal ever gets done. Their strength right now appears to be young pitching prospects. If KC bit on this one, I’d definattely pull the trigger on Gordon for Wheeler and Duda.
Are you kidding? Gordon has been one of the top 20 players in MLB – in MLB, not just the American League – over the past two years. Look it up. If anything, he is underrated. Niese is a nice, perfectly average pitcher, and a lot less valuable than Gordon.
Oh, and Salvador Perez? He was more valuable than Niese this year, and he only played half the season due to injury. The Royals are not going to send the Mets their young catcher who is under contract through 2019 along with Gordon for Niese. Insane.
I know we just gave him a three year extension, but what exactly does J.P. Ricciardi do on this team? I mean besides stroking Alderson’s ego and telling him his decisions rock, does he serve any other functional purpose?
He speaks English so well
Bad idea to trade Niese for Gordon. If we are going to trade a Pitcher it should be R.A. I’m sure there is a team out there willing to part with a combination of catcher/outfielder/reliever (2 out of 3) for him.
There is a theory in baseball. Build your arms and buy your bats. The Mets have been building up there inventory of arms. If they cant afford to buy bats,they will have to act like Toronto and trade for them. So its either trade the Dickey for some bats or trade Niese for bats?
That’s all fine and dandy when you have money to buy bats. But even a stooge like Alderson said he cant buy bats and would have to trade this offseason. Dare you question our lord and savior?
I would rather solidify our CF position. 14 HR and 72 RBI is not enough production to give up Niese for.
Joe D.,
The Mets are clearly correct with this. It is ALL about pitching. Alway has been, always will be. Niese for a “decent to plus” OF is a non-starter, plain and simple. The game has “passed up” anyone thinking otherwise. Alderson may not have distinguished himself yet in NY, and may never will, but he certainly is no fool. KEEP THE ARMS, BUY THE BATS. For reference – 2010 and 2012 World Champion SF Giants.
Pablo Sandoval – IFA
Buster Posey – Draft
Brandon Belt – Draft
Angel Pagan – trade
Hunter Pence – trade
Melky Cabrera – trade
Aubrey Huff – was their highest paid position player….he was signed as a free-agent….he made 10 mil…and played 52 games, he was replaced by Brandon Belt
You beat me to it you rat basterd.
Yes,
Not exactly murderers row, and most acquired via trades. But, how may major league arms did the SF Giants trade for those guys? Ramon Ramirez, an interchangable bullpen guy. I am all for acquiring bats by FA signing or trade, so long as the FA signing does not cost a draft pick, and so long as they are not dealing quality guys that have prven they can do it at the major league level. Let Sandy deal off a couple of lower level minor league pitchers that may or may never get to MLB, and just pick a couple to keep off limits (say Fulmer and Wheeler). Again, to trade Niese, they need to get a boatload in return. He is just too rare a commodity – good at MLB level, lefty, young, cost controlled, still has possible upside.
I’d have to disagree with you here, Joe. Niese is a top of the rotation guy and I value him over Wheeler or Harvey right now. I’d trade one of them for Gordon, but definitely not Niese.
Considering the current state of the franchise it wouldn’t be smart to trade Wheeler, Harvey or Niese. Much better off trading wright and dickey for a combination of near ML ready arms and hard to find positions prospects like catcher, centerfielder, and ss. Then use the 20 million saved on feeling in the holes for 2013.
“Then use the 20 million saved on feeling in the holes for 2013.”
King Felix – 2014 ?
Exactly!!!!!!!!!! Save the money for someone who’s gonna help us over the top… Felix, Harvey, Niese, Wheeler and (Maniac or Bayonne as our 5th starter). that rotation if something like that ought to happen would be the best in baseball by far… not even close.. Save the money on real players instead of overrrated choke artists who never won anything..
Felix…
is….
going….
nowhere.
Felix…
won’t….
be….
a….
Met.
Okay?
Spelling aside it’s the right way to go.
“The Mets are completely over-valuing Niese’s potential, while under-valuing a young, productive outfielder with huge upside…”
I like how this is presented as a statement of fact. Let me ask a question…how do you know? Seems like Niese is projecting upward which is not uncommon for southpaws who tend to develop at a bit slower pace. Gordon took a step back off his fabulous 2011 numbers albeit slightly. HRs, RBIs, BA, and OBP all down. Is this a trend or something that will be reversed.
The fact is nobody knows and there is a risk either way. Forget what people project because that is often exceeded or not reached regularly. Gordon might go on to a hall of fame career and Niese just a mid rotation pitcher. Or Niese could step up and become a Cole Hamels type while Gordon descends downward. Or they both could be sensational for the rest of their careers.
And I love how we have another article based upon a “Mets source”. Is this the same guy who stated that the Mets were shopping Ike or that the Wright and Dickey deals might be done by the WS?
Plain and simple, the author completely misses the point here. The reason the Mets wouldn’t trade Niese for Gordon is about a combination of value, cost and control. Niese is locked up for another 4 years + an option at an affordable price and is trending upwards. Gordon is a free agent after this season and is going to start to get expensive. In fact, his value may not match his contract moving forward. That was easy, wasn’t it?
Gordon isn’t a free agent until after 2015; he has three more years left on his contract.
Oops, looks like I missed the extension Gordon signed in March. I guess I am the idiot here. That said, I think a deeper analysis of contract vs. value is needed before criticizing Alderson.
how about a deeper analysis of winning and trying to win ballgames. Which Alderson is clearly failing out while other GMs, for the past 2 years, have outperformed Alderson getting good players at prices Mets can afford and moving big contracts which Alderson and Depo and JP seemed not able to do.
You think discussing the nuances of a contract is something new? How about trying to use your head, make better decisions, and make some interesting trades. All Alderson has done is rape the team of talent, make wrong moves, and try to fit square pegs into round holes because of his stupid beliefs. But he signed a couple of backups that worked out.
Another Alderson sympathizer. Another person that puts his sabermetric beliefs ahead of winning baseball. To these guys signing a player to a cheap contract is the “new” world series championship.
Yeah he should have spent $100M on Reyes, a guy who led a team that finished 5th all the way up to 5th place.
yeah he should have because the Mets would then have Reyes and Tejada solid up the middle, less guys playing out of position, hopefully Wright would be gone by now in favor of major league ready talent, possibly a catcher, and money freed up to held acquire a CFer- again strong up the middle with a nice batch of young pitching coming up.
The Flaskmaster is more like it. Keep drinking from your flask with your Sandy Alderson love doll by your side.
Tejada played mostly short stop coming up, so you still have the same number of guys out of position.
why even say something so dumb as this. Oh i forget – it’s your calling card.
Tejada could be the best out of position defensive second baseman in baseball…..but i know i know…you saber guys like aesthetics, so yeah..technically Tejada is out of position.
Somehow i’m gonna regret responding to this clown’s little insignificant anecdote.
That is a terrific baseball comment that really raised the level of this conversation. thank you.
Tejeda didn’t play second base regularly at all until 2010. You have no idea what you’re talking about
tell me where i was under the impression he was a regular second baseman? I knew he was a SS and when he came up he played a nice 2B. So good that i would prefer him back there.
YOU don’t know what you’re talking Mr. Stupid. Go do your homework or go play w/your friends or something.
“yeah he should have because the Mets would then have Reyes and Tejada solid up the middle, less guys playing out of position”
the only way that statement makes sense is if you think Tejada was a regular 2B
…or a good secondbaseman which he is. You are just a god damned idiot trying to stir up trouble if you can’t deduce logically what i’m saying. More than half of your stupid posts wind up as semantics-based arguments or something else that moves off topic. Just get the god damned point in the first place and either respond to the point or don’t. Jesus Christ it’s now about whether i thought Tejada played 2B in the minors or not.
These people of F-d up in a big way. In my real life i always hung out with very smart baseball people and whether we agreed or disagreed we always were on the same wavelength. These sarcastic, obnoxious, smarmy creeps are on a wave-length of their own. How anybody can root for these saber, sarcastic, word-playing, surviving birth-defects is beyond me
He means that if the Mets had reyes and tejada up the middle, Murphy wouldn’t forcred to play out of position at 2nd base.
Exactly Vinny. But these guys are morons and can’t pick up on that.
maybe if you didn’t waste your posts attacking us for no reason you could have explained that…
Well maybe if you understood what i was saying in the first place you wouldn’t get attack. Don’t bother me kid, you’re high school so what are you doing here on a Friday night at 8pm? Go out and find a girl or something. The only thing you know about baseball is OBP so don’t even bother little man, go talk baseball with somebody else not me
wowowewa its a very nice
wowowewa its a very nice… high five!
doh stupid comptuter…
LOL why so grouchy?
And how muchdid that team actually pay Reyes Taskmaster?
Answer: 10 Million! one million less than we paid him in 2011!
But he got a boatload of players for him after that!
So, you advocate bait and switch again? Sign Reyes and trade him off a year later?
Can someone get the formula and check the diaper the MMO Baby is crying again….
Yeah he should have spent $100M on Reyes, a guy who led a team that finished 5th all the way up to 5th place”
Yeah, no, let’s spent $150 on wright, a guy who lead THE NEW YORK METS, the team we all love and root for all the way up to 4th place in BACK to BACK seasons…. Yeah, that sounds much better!
You are preaching to the choir on Wright. I agree with that. But dont be harsh on Alderson because this is obviously the Wilpons call. His MO is not to give major long term deals to guys on their second contract since they rarely work out well. The Wilpons are the ones throwing around the term “Ambassador” for Wright.
Wright’s deal, if for the numbers mentioned, will be a bad contract the second it is signed.
It’s obviously Sandy’s call, not the Wilpons. Sandy will advise his bosses what is the best course. When i see EVIDENCE that the WIlpons actually make the decision than i’ll believe it but until then it’s just a bunch of conspiracy nuts that suggest that the Wilpons are making the moves.
You sure love your Sandy don’t you. Another clown that says the owners stink, Minaya stinks, he probably thinks Phillips stinks too…But Sandy is innocent and his work has been without flaw.
I sure hope it’s Blue Label in that flask, flaskmaster.
Then why was the point at taking at shot at reyes for no reason? Alderson doesn’t sign wright, the wilpons do because it’s gonna look like a bad contract.. but if it works out i am sure y’all will not say that.. Thank god for alderson articles will be thrown in our faces the first week of the season if wright starts hot… You guys amaze me even more everyday!
If Niese is traded. Thats if!! He has to go to Toronto for D’Arnaud and Gose. That gives you the franchise catcher and centerfielder.
You do realize Gose can’t hit, don’t you?
Well all I have to say is if they believe it is right to BUY the bats (and I don’t disagree with that in principle) then the time to do so is NOW not next year because why waste a year of Niese’s contract waiting for the money to buy the bat that makes him a winner?
How much could you possibly pay him?
10-15 Mil?
Is that really too much risk to take on a single year that COULD turn into a playoff run if you have the pitching AND the bats this year?
Our 2nd half turned to crap because we lost TWO guys from our rotation. And by the time we decided to bring Harvey up were were pretty much out of contention, Gave up on getting help at the deadline, and doused the fire they had before the All Star game to cold embers.
If they believe they should buy a bet then why put off till tomorrow what they could do today?
For the price of selling one more minority stake that gets the buyer nothing but Mr Met to come shine your shoes they could sign the bat now and have 5 Mil left over to pay for Wright or Dickey or something else from above the bottom of the scrappile!
This is proof positive that this front office is as overpaid as it is clueless.
I knew this post would get inundated with comments when I saw the title, but what I didn’t know is how many people really think Niese is more valuable than Alex Gordon. Slowly but surely the Alderson philosophy has taken over the base. Thankfully I still have my 1969, 1973 and 1986 memories to hold onto. Hopefully this phase we are in passes soon.
I expect that If Gordon averaged 25 HRs a year with those doubles, the Mets might make that trade. They are enamored of the home run.
While I agree with the assessment of keeping the young arms, and there is a lot of good arms in our system that’s capable of quickly moving through the levels, to get a guy like Alex Gordon would be a very good start to bringing in those bats they want to buy when they have the money to do so. Have those “bats” attracted to Flushing by next winter. The Mets have an ENTIRE outfield to cover, and with the outfield market getting more interesting, I wouldn’t hesitate in making a move for Gordon. If not for Niese, who are you willing to part with?