23
2012
Mets Sign Wanel Mesa To Minors Deal
An article by 
The Mets have signed right-hande pitcher Wanel Mesa to a minor league contract, according to Baseball America.
Mesa, who will be 26 in January, spent seven years in the Washington Nationals organization before being unconditionally released after the 2010 season, never making it past Single-A ball.
In his final season there, Mesa made 38 relief appearances with a 7.00 ERA before being cut.
He has spent the last two years playing independent ball, where he had a 9.45 ERA with Bridgeport last season in three appearances
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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LOL REALLY, I’m 33 haven’t pitched competitively in 13 years and I still think they would get more in return for their investment lol.
WHO???
Mesa? He’s a table-setter…
At a Restaurant right?
I would love to see someone in scouting or management comment when they sign that .189 lifetime hitting utility player or a bum like this. “We like what we see in Wanel. We have Rick Peterson disease so we think we can turn Wanel into our newest reclamation project. Hey, it was worth it with Dickey, wasn’t it? After all, if you can’t take a chance on a guy with a 7.00 ERA, who can you?”
Maybe Joe D can secure an interview with a Mets official and ask these questions because these is beyond ridiculous now with these signings and no NO other team does this all the time – only the Mets.
What the HELL are they trying to find with all these bottom of the barrel signings the last 3 years? None of them make it to the big club.
Sandy’s saber goon fan base was right whey they said he would find under the radar talent, these signings would never be on anyone’s radar.
I wonder if they would have more luck just signing 18 year olds that have never played and then teaching them the game. I’d rather have an 18 year old fresh arm then a guy who has always performed badly and is gettting on in age.
Take a look at these names:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/reds-sign-emmanuel-burriss.html
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/minor-moves-athletics-nationals-dodgers.html
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/cubs-sign-brian-bogusevic.html
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/pirates-to-sign-six-to-minor-league-deals.html
These are just a few of the signings in the last week. And yes all teams do sign players like this.
The minor league salaries are as follows: $39,900 if first minor league contract; $79,900 if 2nd, 3rd, etc…The advantage to the minor league contracts is there is no guarantee and if the player is released before a certain date in spring training, it costs a minimal amount ($5000 I believe). As you can guess, only the most desperate of players will agree to this. The invite to spring training lets them play in the major league games in an effort to win a spot. These are truly long shots. For everyone who makes it a team might have to sign 25 or 50 guys before finding that one.
As for what the front office contracts are, I dont recall seeing what Ricardis contract was for. I dont believe it was even published.
I asked these 2 questions the other day and no one had an answer:
- How much do all these minor league signings cost
- How much was JP Ricciardi’s contract
Just want to get an idea of how much money has been spent so far.
Are you unable to do the research yourself?
Very difficult to get salary info on MLB execs. Front office types love to leak all kinds of info about the team, but not when it comes to their salaries. You have to figure Alderson in the $2-3 million range, and his assistants anywhere from $500K to $1 million annually.
I know, these low level moves are made all the time but I doubt this one has a valid, outside chance that a genie could come out of the bottle based on past performance or something seen with the player’s mechanics that could be straightened out. If Omar’s people recommended him, perhaps that could be the possibility, but not Sandy because the people he brought over to evaluate talent have to fall in line with his saber metric thinking more than traditional observation and it’s a guess they saw some sort of advanced statistic camoflagued within that 9.45 ERA in independent ball that made them decide to take a chance.
Otherwise, why spend time scouting such this type of player?
i can’t find the terms of JP’s contract anywhere and I don’t know how much minor league signings cost. If they’re all the same number or if they vary. Maybe you can help? Or SOMEBODY that does know these things. I find it very interesting that the terms of JP’s contract were not disclosed – probably the same cost at Gerald Laird or Juan Pierre.
Funny how all these guys who know more about contracts and minor league signings than baseball itself are now suddenly quiet.
HI Bayonne,
I am sure the ones who still have faith in Sandy and people will simply say this is another minor league signing to simply fill a roster space and nothing more and so not to make a big deal of it.
If that was the case, I would ask them why didn’t they instead sign a few more of their draft pick selections from last year instead?
Speaking of odd signings, I read somewhere a while back that joey Gathwright was spotted jumping over a car and that led to him being signed as an undrafted free agent. My theory is if you are going to sign guys with little to no chance of making a difference why not sign teenagers?
Wish I could help Bay, I never payed much attention to contract cost of minor league free agents or Front Office personnel. I guess this illustrates the changing times, we now are paying closer attention to the things outside of our ML team that should have little to do with how the game is played on the field.
Whatta Mesa this team is in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zECgq0F1RU
I do not necessarily say it is good signing or a waste of money. It looked like he was in a pickup game or just practicing against amatures or even 16-18 year old kids. However the last pitch he threw was a respectible change up.
Hi Hotstreak,
LMAO – that was a good one.
When I was a teenager playing in a sandlot game I made the greatest catch I could ever hope for in my lifetime – a fantastic catch indeed that I will humbly admit am sure came about purely by accident and not due to talent. But boy, do I wish that happened with Sandy’s people watching – I could have been signed up at the spot!
Hi Joey.
Actually SA would not rely on old fashion scouting ala Omar. He would have to see some SABER stat based on your speed, hand and eye coordination and see a contract (no out clause) you made with the devil (Damn Yankees). Then he would be interested.
Here is an interesting stat. Look at NL East. Each team in NL with the greater run differential of runs scored and runs allowed finished higher. The phillies has a 4 run differential and finished at .500. Not only that each team in the standings the higher the finish the most runs scored and the lower the finish the most runs allowed. This held true for for all five teams in the division and its divisional placemnt in the standings. For instance Wahington scored most runs and it allowed the least. Marlins allowed the most runs and scored the least.
My SABER conclusion is this: Score as much runs as you can and allow the least runs and you will most likely finish on top. This is simplicity at its best.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings
Hi Hotstreak,
Then I would be shoeless Joe from Hannibal Mo and something that Lola wants but in this case could never get.
With the run scoring differential, we have to remember that Baltimore won 93 games by outscoring it’s opponents by a total of all but seven runs. According to Bill James’ Pythagorean Theory, they should have been no better than 82-80. And of course, since that is a conclusion based on cyber calculation – and not a projection – it’s just an example that stats don’t tell the story – unless one wants to insist that the Orioles were the luckiest team in the history of the game with eleven undeserved victories.
Hi Joey,
Good counter point with Baltimore. But runs scored and runs allowed as a general rule determine where you finish. It seems it takes a plus 100 run differential to make the playoffs. Don’t forgot in my link below we led the majors with 101 quality starts but finished with a minus 59 run scored differential. The bullpen has to be better. The offense has to be better at manufacturing runs . I am stating the obvious. A smart GM would see where we are and say: Pitching, Defense, Speed and strong up the middle wins games. We only have SP which should be 90% of the game but we are very weak at the others in that formula which negates it. A speedy CF and a good defensive catcher do not cost that much. Yes I see we can keep Wright and Dickey and win that way. Metsie if your reading this too it is a major concession by me.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/nl
What you refuse to acknowledge is that Baltimore was an anomaly. All they prove is that no stat or theory is 100% accurate 100% of the time. But run differential works very well a large majority of the time. You’d probably have to search high and low to find another “Baltimore” while I could give you 29 instances of correct projections just this year alone.
Oh please project what?
An outcome can not PROJECT itself….
And if it isn’t 100% accurate that is a sign that something else is in play that you failed to take into account.
There is no such thing as a FLUKE in mathematics or statistical proofs…
If it isn’t 100% true in all cases there is a problem with the math that needs correcting which is why ALL metrics invented thus far are never 100%
They only tell a part of the story and any insistence it is more important than another is just wishfull thinking.
“An outcome can not PROJECT itself….”
Says the guy who swears RBI projects runs scored.
Statistics is probability. That is why they say there is a ninety percent probability that if taxes are cut ten percent for the middle class then they will spend more all other things being equal. However if taxes are cut only five percent for the same group then their is only a seventy-five percent pronability (chance) they will spend more all other things being equal.
No i never said it projected I said it was the best correlator and more importand to leading the league in RS than OBP…
But you go right on believing OBP correlates better cause you have 30 years of Research that doesn’t exist and has never been produced because it’s about as real as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!
Hi Xtreem,
That saber stat is iron clad in it’s formula and thus claims that Baltimore should have only been in the neighborhood of 82-80, not 93-69. Yet anyone who saw the Orioles this past season knew they were playing better than a .500 ball club and worthy of their 93 win season.
The analysis was updated daily based on the latest statistical information. It was not meant as projection but representation of the team’s true make-up, eliminating the factor of luck. Therefore, the question is would we want a general manager who relies on such information for his decision making?
I recall in July this Pythagorean stat had Baltimore being slightly below .500. Using Bill James advanced calculations as his guide would Sandy, as the Baltimore GM, have thus concluded his team was playing over it’s head and was still more reflective of the team that he took over the prior season, one that struggled to even win 70 games year after year after year?
What would he do still believing the team needed to be rebuilt and not having faith in the ones currently in the clubhouse? Would he hang onto the players who were producing now but be on the decline by the time his rebuilding plans reached fruition on the outside chance they could continue with their success the rest of the way? Or would he go by what his statistical analysis was telling him about the current roster and dismantle it for the sake of building a bonifide franchise for the future? There were players on his club other teams would want which he could find top prospects for.
And how about the money factor on contracts he inherited? Would Baltimore be better off committed to and therefore risking the possibility of being burned as Adam Jones (approximately $84 million at the time) or Nick Markakis (who was till owed $35 million on his) started slowing down?
The scenario is not as wild as it sounds. If Sandy didn’t have faith in the Mets the past two seasons, despite their play up a bit past the all-star break, would he have felt any differently with Baltimore? Again, this was a team that was way off than the Mets were when he took them over.
Most would see the Pythagorean calculation as useless but could the same be said for one who inherited an annual cellar dweller that up to 2012 needed a fresh infusion of young talent? Would one who relies on interpreting statistics instead of what he sees on the field conclude his team was only an abnormality and take the unpopular stance to break up that team since a one year fluke was not worth sacrificing the rebuilding he thought necessary for the long term health of the franchise?
That’s something to think about.
-see my post
The problem is that Baltimore was blown out like 15 times, while they barely did that to the other team. Most teams do these equally so their run differential is actual representative of how good they are.
“If it isn’t 100% true in all cases there is a problem with the math that needs correcting which is why ALL metrics invented thus far are never 100%”"
So if you have three metrics, one works 50% of the time, one works 75% and one 90%, which do you use?
I am not a Sabermetrics guy and I be honest most of it is too complex for me. I go by what i see. However BABIP is its most value stat. Back at May 19 2012 look at this stat.
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/hitter-babip-leaders/
It’s nowhere near it’s most valued stat. That would probably be wRC+.
Why I like BABIP I looked at Jon Niese who use to be the poster boy for a higher than average BABIP (norm is about.290). It went from .333 in 2011 to .272 in 2012. I love Niese but now see he could not be as good as I think.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4424&position=P
Well the point is that BAPIP usually fluctuates from year to year. So basically the average of those 2 years is closest to Niese’s true talent. Average is 300 by the way
Your absolutely right .300 for NL. .297 for all of baseball, so AL with DH’s are lower BABIP at least in 2012. In the link below you can check out many years and by position.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0,ss&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0
However you can not average two years. Because this stat shows element of luck or bad luck which inflates or deflates other stats. This is the only stat I find useful.
.
What credible detail does the BABIP show? With the differences in batting averages between a handful of players being negligible, a higher BABIP often means the hitter strikes out a lot more than others in order to achieve that overall batting average. One with the lower BABIP actually puts the ball in play more often and can produce productive outs instead. Does one need that statistic to know who the better contact hitter is? Only those who don’t know the game do.
In a one run game in the late innings with a runner on third, one out and an open base at first and the next two hitters being mostly equal except for BABIP, my guess is the manager would prefer facing one with a higher BABIP than hitter with a lower one since the one with the high BABIP has that tendency to swing and miss and not put the ball in play which could cause that runner to score.
Just knowing who the better contact hitter is sufficient enough information for in-game strategy. For the professionals, it is as useless piece of information as Mr. Baseball leading his team in ninth inning doubles for the month of August. It is of interest only for the statistical buff.
Hi Joey
Batting Average Balls In Play BABIP (excludes strikeouts)
It evens the playing field both for the hitters stats and pitching stats based on line drives caugh or seing eye dogs getting through the whole. These too examples have a reverse relationship of luck or bad luck when used as a pitching stat or hitting stat : That is “other things being equal or disregarding stikeouts.
In the prior link as of May 19, 2012 both DW and Capt. Kirk had extradonarily high BABIP, all their contact made were away from fielders. They hit them where they ain’t. The good luck caught up with them.
If a GM conversely sees a hitter batted .290 overall and had a .330 BABIP perhaps he should view him as a .275 hitter since the norm BABIP is around.300. That means if the mean BA in say NL is .270 and .BABIP is .300 because it excludes strikeouts. What I found out in my BABIP link is the aveage NL 3rd basemen have a BABIP of .308 but the average catcher it is only .292. That is because the average catcher is slow and does not get infield hits and probably fouls out or hit pop ups to an infielder where there is less a chance of the ball falling in for a hit after contact made. The 3B will hit more line drives which could be bonefide hits when contact is made.
My comment about Niese was he was the poster boy previously for bad luck as when he did not strike out a batter on contact the balls got thru for hits. Again the norm BABIP is .300. His stats always were near .330. Many stat guys predicted he would eventually have an oustanding year when he only gave up the norm. Well in 2012 his BABIP was abnormally low. When contact was made it must have been weak ground balls that did not go thru or his line drives given up were right at a fielder.
Hi Hotstreak,
But it’s because the BABIP doesn’t include strikeouts and with it missing that important factor it really doesn’t paint a picture of the batter or pitcher overall or help the manager with strategical decisions.
From a statistical point of view, the bottom line is that a .320 hitter is a .320 hitter, A 210 hitter against lefties is a .210 hitter against lefties. A .275 hitter against righties is a .275 hitter against righties. A pitcher who has a batter’s number has a batter’s number. A pitcher who can throw the ball the way he wants to can get batters to hit the ball to his fielders based on their positioning – which is determined by how the pitcher throws, knowing the the batter’s tendency and the geometric result of both these factors when the ball meets the bat. The better pitchers get this done more often and therefore are tougher to hit. In turn, the better batters due to their mechanics and pure talent are less predictable with their tendency and thus are able to do what Wee Willie Keeler knew well over a century ago – “hit ‘em where they ain’t”.
We all know faster players will get more of their share of legged out hits than a slower one. We also know a left handed hitter has the advantage of less feet having to run to first which gives him the advantage of legging out a grounder hit to the left side as opposed to a right handed hitter. BABIP isn’t really needed to understand that.
As far as individual game situations, one also has to consider the thickness of the grass, the way the wind blows, the humidity in the air, the smaller ballpark grouping fielders closer together, etc. into what happens after a batter makes contact. A blooper toward left is bound to be caught in Fenway Park because the left fielder does not need to play that far back due to the green monster being so close while the same can’t be said at Citi Field with it’s deeper dimensions. Poor fielding teams help opposing batters while great fielding teams help those on the mound for them. Every hitter gets his share of lucky hits when not making good contact and every pitcher gets his share of lucky outs due to an outstanding play on a bad pitch.
That’s why I feel BABIP is an interesting tidbit for those who enjoy breaking down statistics to the infinite detail but is not important for the player or astute fan of the game to know due to all the examples I’ve cited above. It’s perfect for those who love calculus as much as they do baseball but I’ll use your example of the .290 hitter maybe really being a .275 hitter to explain what I perceive as it’s irrelevancy. Over the course of the season with 500 at bats, that difference in batting average results in 7.5 less hits for the year – perhaps one less hit every twenty games. Doesn’t seem like much, does it?
Good conversation, enjoyed it.
Hi Joey,
I enjoy dialogue anfd thanks for participating with me..
BABIP has little or no relevancy for a mangerial decision in a game. But it has what I condider a ton of relevancy in evaluating a player to acquire him, give him a big contact be it pitcher or hitter. As an example Andress Torres had a plus 6 WAR in 2010 he had a BA of .270 and a BABIP of .333. We presume he was somewhat lucky that year. If we factor to the norm he should have batted maybe .255. A beter example is Capt. Kirk in May. He was batting .290 with a BABIP of over .400. Those numbers tell you Capt. Kirk “K’s” alot which we saw but forgave with his .290 B.A. Look what happened thereafter. DW in May with a .370 B.A. and about a .430 BABIP which certainly he could not sustain.
Hi Hotstreak,
Yup, it’s been fun indeed.
I understand where you are coming from as far as contract negotiations are concerned but I don’t personally think either party is going to use miniscule details like WAR, BABIP, etc. that are more appropriate for fantasy league than business negotiations.
As mentioned before, professionals fully understand how talented the player is already. Each party tries to figure out what the other would either offer or accept based on market value that has as much to do with raising the ante to outbid other teams competing for the same player and the money the team can make by that signing. WAR doesn’t account for the amount of money a team can make by selling a superstar’s player jersey and the more season tickets his signing can generate or what the player can make by other outside revenue opportunities.
Ciao
Impotance of BABIP in evaluating a player:
Look at Angel Paegan BABIP between the respective years of 2011 and 2012. A picture of this graph in the link tells the story of his 2012 success and why the Giants did not tender him an offer.
http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=2918&position=OF&page=7&type=full