19
2012
Memo To Mets: Stop Screwing Around And Sign Dickey And Wright
An article by 
The press release came via email as it always does and my first reaction was: How insignificant is Brian Bixler?
He means something to his family, but hit .193 with two homers and seven RBI last season for Colorado and Washington. Yup, that will have them breaking down the doors at Citi Field.
Another meaningless signing by the Mets, who continue to insult their dwindling fan base. Those are Jason Bay numbers and you know what happened to him.
Bixler is a utility player, of course. Bay? He’s home collecting his fortune, and as we all expect is about to sign with another team where he’ll suddenly be transformed into the slugger who once posted impressive numbers in Pittsburgh and Boston.
The only signings I am interested in now are that of R.A. Dickey and David Wright. The Mets showed signs of life in the first half last season and the primary reasons were Dickey and Wright. I know they were 14 games under .500 with them and could be 14 under with them.
That’s not the point. They can’t get any better, can’t appease their fans, and can’t generate any more excitement without them.
Not only the 2013 Mets, but for years to come, they would be sending the message of irrelevance to their public, to future free agents and Major League Baseball if they don’t keep their two best players.
When Wright hit the skids in the second half, arguably the only reason worth watching the Mets was Dickey. In fact, they juggled the rotation to give him extra starts at Citi Field. Dickey wanted the chance to pitch, and say thank you, to those that cheered him. The Mets wanted a few more fannies in the seats to buy hot dogs and beer.
I railed at the Miami Marlins yesterday for the trade that gutted their franchise and the same feelings apply to the Mets, only worse.
At least the Marlins made a decision – as bad as it was – and acted on it. The Mets? The perception is they are doing nothing. Talks are stagnant. If they let Dickey and Wright leave without pursuing them as they did Jose Reyes, that’s being passive-aggressive and it is worse.
Things could get better if they build around Dickey, Wright, Ike Davis, Jon Niese and Matt Harvey. That’s been the promise anyway. If they get better that’s when they will see a relief in their finances.
You have to spend money to make money, now do it and don’t bother us with any more Brian Bixler type signings.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 19 | .548 | 0.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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What a terrible article.
LMAO…. THIS^^^^^^
What a terrible waste of sperm.
I’ll say that the inaction is a little frustrating, but making a move just to do something isn’t always the best course of action.
This.
Ken Rosenthal has a very good article up on the Mets yesterday:
‘It’s time for the Mets to reinvest’
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/time-for-new-york-mets-fred-wilpon-to-reinvest-in-team-111812
I’m very much in agreement with just about everything he says here. Doesn’t necessarily meant they need to spend on Dickey and Wright. But they need to start re-investing in the team. If they’re not going to do that then the Wilpons should just sell, IMO.
Bad Reinvest = Locking up 120 mil in Wright, claiming broke later
Good Reinvest = Locking up Ike, Tejada, Murphy, Duda, Gee, Parnell to sensible team deals, buying out free-agent years.
Best Reinvest = Locking up Dickey on a sensible contract, trading Wright for top prospects, locking up Ike, Tejada, Murphy, Duda, Gee, Parnell to sensible team deals, buying out free-agent years.
Damaja: You’re dead wrong. Wright is a 6-time All Star who has won 2 Gold Gloves and 2 Silver Sluggers since coming to the big leagues late in 2004. You do NOT trade that kind of talent. You build around it. He’s a career 300 hitter with over 200 HR and 800 RBI. Give him more than Ryan Zimmerman money (Wright’s a better player than Zimmerman).
Locking up Wright and Dickey is step 1 in a proper reinvestment.
Locking up David and Dickey is step one right. That will fill up our cap then what will step to be hope for another Dickey luck. We are spending like a low budget team we need to act like one. You can’t keep doing e same thing every year hoping it work. Our biggest accusation in the past two seasons is Scott Hairston. We better off trading right for promising players, we did it with Beltran we got wheeler, we did not do it with Reyes we got a projected backup catcher. We trade Wwright we probally get more Wheelers and Dickey will gets us something to. I’m tired of them using the same formula over and over, its time for rebuild.
I agree a $120M+ extension to Wright is a bad deal.
As for the others, I think if Ike has a good year he gets a deal like Niese did which locks him up for a while but makes him a wealthy guy. The others, Tejada and Duda have something to prove. Murphy, I would wait to see where he fits into the future plans. Parnell, since he cant close, I would lock him up for low money.
And not making a move beause your not sure is not the best course of action either….
The GM is supposed to have this mostly worked out before the offseason starts.
These guys don’t plan all they do is wait and react to events.
whoa… a Metsie post with no exclamation points.
Now rise to the occassion and start making baseball posts as opposed to poster reviews…
Because that is the thing that will start the war you will later feign innocence in starting!
The move to just do something once led to a trade of five players for Jim Fregosi…
And I believe one of those players was Nolan Ryan. BTW I love your name.
This proclamation that people want the front office to “make moves just for the sake of making moves” is complete baloney.
This is the 3rd straight off season (so far) where other GMs make moves getting good ballplayers that help you win for prices the Mets can afford. Instead Sandy signs the Blixes..or whatever the hell his name is and Lucas Mays and Chin Lung Hus and Brad Emauses of the word (there’s a lot more names too btw)
Other GMs have made smart trades and signed good ballplayers at reasonable prices and it all goes right by the Mets as Sandy only makes news with snarky, sarcastic responses judging other GM. The only way any Mets make the playoffs is when he moves them to other teams.
Other GM’s make bad moves too. Just ask one of the most over rated GM (not the worst just very over rated) Brian Cashman. Montero for Pineada!!!
I usually defend Alderson and I still feel we need to be a little more patient (although I agree something needs to be done soon). But his wise ass comments and unprofessional comments about other teams moves really bug the crap out of me.
Cashman might be one of the worst GM’s I’ve ever seen.
13 years as GM and he still cant produce an infielder out of the draft
I’m sure Cano& soriano did good for them good no?? He didn’t need a SS nor needed a 3rd baseman.. if you wanna get on him for not having a 1B then fine, but come on.. I’d rather have cashman 100000 times over sandy “the game passed by me 30 but i’m sitll smarter than you cuz i went to an ivy school and speak well english” alderson and any of his goons..
Soriano was from Japan.
Cano I believe was a IFA either right when Cashman came on or before…
and no you would not rather have Cashman with the Wilpons…
The only reason Cashman gets over is because the Yankees allow him to erase his mistakes…
Met fans think Luis Castillo and Alex Cora’s 2 mil salary were disasters
Nick Johnson got paid 6 mil for 36 AB in 2010…
Yankee fans dont even remember nor care…
met fans imitate the penny pinching wilpons they hate
Just,
I totally agree with all you just said! Cash is incredibly over rated and you just documented perfectly why I feel that way.
Damaja, point is, believe it or not, cashman has been underrated as a GM because of all the money the yankees have had to spend. but he’s made the perfect trades when it matter, and have gotten guys to contribute at the right time… I mean, he got Nick S for nothing, look at last year, the small signing he did paid off.. While yes, he’s made huge mistakes as a GM he’s also done good..
Yeah shame on Cashmen for getting guys like Sabbathia and Granderson what was he thinking when he could have had guys like Hairston, and Baxter
Buster Olney of ESPN is saying the same thing: http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/olney_buster/id/8638494/new-york-mets-ownership-re-sign-ra-dickey-sell-team-mlb
He argues that if the Wilpons are unwilling to spend the money to re-sign RA, then they should sell the team. I can’t read the entire article because it requires an insider membership, but I agree with the premise of the article.
I would add one thing to Buster’s headline.
That headline should read “Wilpons should re-sign Dickey and Wright or sell Mets”
Other than the Marlins trade and the Torii Hunter signing, what has taken place in baseball this off season of merit. It seems that all talks are dragging. The top FAs dont seem close to agreeing with any team. I havent heard of any major extensions around the league although I am sure talks are occurring. I once read where the new CBA would speed up the off season proceedings with lots done by Thanksgiving. I have yet to see it.
Funny, we said the same thing last year and the year before last.. Minors move are being done, every team does it. problem is, those minor moves are basically our only moves. our Terrible front office will strike again.. I fear we’d be stuck with an overpaid as hell 3rd baseman just to apeace the fan base after signing a bunch of garbage players
When you have a payroll with 50% of your money going to two players who contribute next to nothing and a decimated farm system, it takes time to rebuild. Everyone wants FA signings and big money spent, but that is exactly what caused the problem.
That excuse died when they restructred Bay’s contract to cut him so back to the drawing board for you!
its called a fact.
Metsie…….you say that like the Mets freed up tons of money to reinvest. Bay’s still going to get all the money contractually due him……LMAO
Is there still 50 Mil of next year’s payrol tied up in two players?
NO! So it’s not a FACT and hardly an excuse for not spending…
Hell it wasn’t even a good excuse when two players DID take up 50 Mil of payroll!
It was just another EXCUSE made for Sandy to buy from the compost heap and thats all it EVER was.
Do you know the terms of the settlement?? If so, enlighten me. From what I understand he’s going to be paid in full within 2 years, so that couldn’t have possibly freed up much money….duh
If it was even a million dollars only….
Is it STILL a FACT that 50 Mil is tied up in two players?
NO!
SO much for your attempt to slide away from your lie!
Point is there is NOT 50 Mil of Payroll tied up in two players anymore!
Face reality and stop trying to use old excuses that no longer apply to reality!
And I should ask you do YOU know the terms?
Obviously not!
The fact there are ANY terms supports my assertion you both are LYING and what you think is true is not!
OK……so if its a million dollars is that a ton of money to spend? That’s scrap heap money. Your problem is that you exhaust way too much energy trying to prove someone wrong rather than offer feasible solutions to this mess of a team. Honestly….you come off with a lot of pent up anger like someone about to go off the deep end. Chill Metsie…..things will get better
Is it a million dollars there LOSER? (Since you called me hater and I can’t use the word I would like I will just call you a LOSER from now on)
Do you HAVE facts or just fantasies that you want to call facts despite the reality….
It’s about 5-10 Mil in relief if you must know….
No where near the 50 Mil you excuse making Sandy suckers want to claim!
Hi Metsie….
I called you a hater?? When did this take place?? Show me and copy and paste for all to see where I called you, Metsie, a hater. You’re going to be able to back that one up as much as you’re able to back up the rest of the nonsense and absurdities you post here. I don’t know if you are a hater or not, but I will say this…..you are a nutjob.
Your right Watchman I owe you an apology it was BlastMaster….
Actually Metsie, since you want to be a technical a**, here are the facts. My post said 50% not $50M. How much is the Mets payroll next year? Do you know? Of course not…it hasnt been spent. You dont know how much money was deferred, you dont know the payroll, yet you still want to bash. Just admit you really have no idea what you are talking about and that you come on here to throw attacks at people.
Is it because your mother didnt love you as a child? Is that where you pent up anger comes from? Were you picked on in school? Before the internet, did you have a tough time feeling like you fit in anywhere? You realize there are therapists out there who could help you with your problems.
s it 50% of thier payroll you tell us and show your math…igf not your just making shit up like the dog ate your homework and it isn’t going to fly and then say we don’t KNOW the facts!
PROVE your assertion or stop telling people they are wrong merely because you don’t know the answer either!
An 8-ball couldn’t speed up this front office. And why are you using the same old tired excuses form the last two offseasons, that nobody has done anything yet? The Mets move slow because they wait until January when the players still out there get desperate and sign on the cheap. You act as though something grand is coming to those who wait it out. You are deluding yourself. This front office has a track record, look at it.
This!!!
In this case, I have to believe the reason the Mets haven’t done much yet is b/c so much hinges on whether they re-sign Wright and Dickey or trade them. They need to make a decision by the end of this month – one way or the other.
They need to make a decision by the end of this month – one way or the other”
And if they don’t?? What happens SRT? Why don’t you enlighten us for a little bit about what your precious front office leader might do?
You should shut f*ck up.
Please don’t be mean to me.. don’t be an internet bully please, you’re gonna make me be scare of you…
Sorry Alex, I have a hard time taking you seriously anymore. You’ve been told time and time again what my opinion of this FO is. You choose to ignore it as you would have to change your agenda.
At first i thought you were stupid, but now I’m starting to think you just have nothing better to do than rile people up on the internet.
And you wonder why you get attacked later on?
NOTE TO STUPID: Posts like those is why you get attacked!
oh come on. This is the only time I’ve ever posted anything provocative at all. and posts like this “And if they don’t?? What happens SRT? Why don’t you enlighten us for a little bit about what your precious front office leader might do?” would get you banned on almost any other site. its just trying to get people pissed off.
Come on children, everybody in the house, dinner is ready… Can everybody please take a chill pill?
So what is everybody thankful for on this Thanksgiving Day?
That Thanksgiving only comes once a year?
I hate the holiday, don’t mind the relatives but the whole concept of a holiday that revolves around eating too damn much food and a dry ugly bird at that I can do without!
WOW! You are the first I’ve ever heard say that! Especially the part about not minding the relatives but disliking the food.
LOL Sloat….
I eat when I’m hungry not because it is some date on the calendar LOL
Besides with an Irish Family like mine there are so damn many they are all pretty much Strangers so it’s not much different than going to a bar!
Severe Drinking and bar fights included!
Seriously good post. We have to keep things in perspective. With that said here I go causing a rucous at the Thansgivingday gathering. In the past alot of Met fans got spoiled with a FA signing to celebrate Thanksgiving. That is wau everone is in a fowl mood.
LOL the old Who Me?
And why do you think Sandy wants some sort of clarity on the Dickey/Wright situation before the GM meetings? So he knows what to do. If Dickey/Wright dont want the deal Sandy gave them he starts talks to trade them. And I do think he had some great offers for both but he will give both time to think about the offers.
Exactly.
This is just good baseball sense and exactly what any FO would be moving towards.
I do not understand why it is taking so long to sign Wright. I would think it would be an afternoon conversation with DW his agent and Sandy and then done. Dickey is another case due to the Mets “Surplus” of pitchers. Basically, they now this is the only area they have to deal from and should be weighing the options.
I almost forgot the reason for not signing Wright. What if the FO believes Flores will be ready by mid-season and they want to trade Wright then? That could be a reason to drag their feet and eventually not get it done. I like Wright and appreciate the hard play he has given the Mets but I could see this as a viable option for a FO that is trying to get the team back on financial bedrock.
Wright’s trade value drops tremendously if the season starts though.
You’ll need to convince a team that he’ll either sign with you or that being on your team for a few months is worth the risk of losing him in 2014.
At least if you do it now, you get a draft pick if he leaves you
I don’t know the answer to your Flores question, but my opinion would be that I doubt it.
Don’t forget Flores played 24 games at 2B in AA this year, compared to 26 at 3B – if they viewed him as the replacement for Wright by 2013 why have him play 2B in Double A?
I mean he just cracked AA for the first time in his 5th year as a pro. To think he’s “ready” for 2013 is a little far fetched for me. I’d equate him to Tejada maybe 2 years ago.
Jessep, I see your point about him playing multiple positions, I was wondering the same thing, yet I still see it as a possibility. The FO may be gambling on getting a similar return for Wright that they got for Beltran, if it works once lets try it again. I think Flores is playing 3rd in winter-ball as well. (I could be wrong) I know he just got to AA but he looked good this year and that may have led to the opinion that he could poll vault to the Majors. He is 20 I think and that kind of ascent is not uncommon. I am just trying to think of reasons for the feet dragging. Being as pragmatic as I can be Flores is not guaranteed to be able to perform in 2013 or 2014 but he is a lot cheaper than Wright. I guess it all lays in the intentions of management. I wonder if they could package a deal with Flores to get Alex Gordon from KC LOL that would be something.
If I’m being 100% honest, I don’t believe anything I read about “rumors” etc anymore. I think teams are outsmarting reporters (see Cliff Lee signing for example). I wait to judge these things when the result is clear 1 way or the other.
I know for a fact that agents leak stories as do teams to try and get the court of public opinion on their side and to create a potential market for a trade or for their client through free agency etc.
So the dragging of the feet, to me, I’m not worried about it. I am sure there are plenty of players working on talks right now that we don’t hear teams dragging their feet.
For example, where are the Yankees with Robinson Cano’s contract? Couldn’t we say the Red Sox are dragging with Ellsbury too? The Giants with Pence?
I’m not saying they are equal I am merely suggesting it’s a slow baseball media time and these stories are rarely ever checked up on after the fact.
For all we know, Wright went on vacation lol. Who knows.
When Wright or Dickey are signed or in another uniform, then I’ll look back on everything and come up with my opinion of how it went down. Until then, I’m going to take everything with a grain of salt
Yeah Jessup that is the smartest way to handle it. Players Agents and the Teams all use the media for their own purposes and trusting any of it is a little ludicrous. I was attempting to forecast possible directions with little info to go on. My dependent variable was slow negotiations and as you said that don’t mean crap lol. I hope that next year we have David and Dickey but at the same time I would be ok if a good deal was made. IDK sometimes the fans make up stuff to debate about when the offseason is slow lol.
Right. I mean to get a handle on how much BS gets floated out there, go to ESPN around the trade deadline and see how many of their “deals” actually get done.
Ever notice that deals like Blue Jays/Marlins aren’t “rumored” days in advance? How come there was no “Toronto interested in Reyes” story a week prior? Because we found out the Red Sox were involved in the talks too so you know they were going back and forth for a bit.
Teams give the media what they want, and agents do the same. I’d rather be reactive to something that actually happens rather than worry and get up in arms about things that eventually never happen.
Very wise words sir. I only have so many brain cells why tie them up with unsubstantiated rumors. Although at times it can be entertaining to banter about these rumors and they can lead to some imaginative ideas.
Nathan……
What if the FO believes Flores will be ready by mid-season and they want to trade Wright then? That could be a reason to drag their feet and eventually not get it done.
I am not a supporter of giving Wright a huge amount of money. If he truly gets greedy and tries to haul a kings ransom for his services, then he’s got to be traded. But if the Mets are trying to undervalue him based on their hopes of Flores, they couldn’t be making a bigger mistake. I’ve watched Flores play day in and day out. He is an enormous hitting talent and has excelled at every level thus far. But at this point in time, he still could very well turn out to be another Steve Henderson, Greg Jeffries, Alex Ochoa, Alex Escobar, Fernando Martinez…..remember those names?
LOL my best friend had a Jefferies poster when we were growing up. I wonder what happened to it. It was framed and everything. I was a huge Straw guy so I didn’t care much for Jeffereies. Yeah we have had some serious flops when it comes to position player prospects. Preston, Lastings, Martinez are just some examples of a lack of development but lately we have had some luck with Wright Reyes Ike Murph so it could go either way. If they sign Wright I would hope that they will package Flores in another deal to snag us an outfielder.
Maybe because there is a $20M difference guaranteed and that isnt something that is settled in an afternoon. According to reports, the Mets are offering a 7th year as an option and Wright’s camp wants it guaranteed. So blame the front office all you want but it is Wright holding the deal up. A true gentlemen would give a decent discount and have faith in his abilities at 37 years old.
Task, I am not sure if your post was directed at answering mine or not but I don’t disagree with you in principle but I do not have the facts to come to the same judgement as you. Certain things have been leaked but we cannot be sure of their accuracy. If this FO has taught us anything it should be to not trust what they say.
Not really Nathan. It was more at all the DW fans who claim that it is the FO fault and that Wright is such a gentleman that he is offering this big discount to the Mets and they ought to be grateful he isnt greedy like other ballplayers. The truth is Wright is trying to maximize all the guaranteed money he can. I dont blame the guy one but anymore than I take exception with Reyes taking the Marlin deal. These guys only get one shot (usually) to get every dollar they can. Wright doesnt have another long term deal in him after this so he needs to get it right. However, let us call a spade a spade and be honest that what he is doing. To state otherwise is misleading.
Can’t argue that, every party is trying to get everything they can out of each other. It seems as the player gets towards their early to mid-thirties they are interested in winning as well as the money they can extract. On both ends the Mets are coming up short right now. If we were acting like a winning organization I would imagine Wright would take a discount. In fact I would be wiling to bet that if we were winning he would already be signed. Oh well conjecture. Stay cool manno
Nathan what do you think Wright would take if given these 2 choices:
- Mets offer 120 million, guarantee his 7th year but roster basically stays the same
- Team “X” offers 110 million with an option but looks like they’ll make the playoffs next year and beyond.
I would like to think I would take the 2nd choice.
I don’t know DW but I would be tempted to take team X. As an ex-player I hated losing more than I liked taking treasure baths lol. Seriously New York offers tons of money making endorsements that are not part of the contract. If he is about the money than taxes aside NY is probably the place to stay. I personally like to think that 13 million a year would be enough for me and I would rather be winning but that goes against the players union’s mentality.
DW and winning surrouned with a cast of patch work fill in players is an oxymoron.
Actually with Dickey and Harvey, Niese and Gee we got great SP. Santana is a question mark. However, SP needs speed and defense. We are devoid of speed and defense. The BP has a huge role to protect 3-2 leads after hopefully 7 solid innings. We are bleeding there. Speed and defense are the attributes we need and they don’t cost as much as sluggers. The problem is there is no plan to build around are strength.
Didnt Wright already got like $ 55 million deal? So how much do you want when you retire?
I can understand the situation Dickey is in. He never had a big contract before. So he wants all he can get so he can have a good life after baseball. Wright on the other hand……..no sympathy what so ever on the money part. As a sportsman he should want to play in October and not retire with $ 170 million earned (and no ring to show to his grandchilderen)
We need an adult in the room not cater to little kids who worship DW. Oh we are the little kids! Don’t get bend out of shape because there is just a pinch of SARCASM in it. The little kids are the future Met fans and the future period. Let’s make sure there is “financial flexability” to close the fiscal crisis. Oh the Wilpons must sell! At this point I take Chinese owners who are rich and Met fans.
Thank god for adults like you. You are part of the problem. You think your sh*t dont stink? Stick your nose in it and smell again.
Typica lDW lover. A spoiled brat. Hey have a temper tantrum.
well you could go to a site like Amazin Dead End Street where they all think the same and dress the same.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cRFe4e841lY/Tx0dCpkuatI/AAAAAAAAGuk/qsaBunZRIHo/s1600/kraftwerk_13.jpg
All one central brain and each reader has a tentacle attached to that one central brain. One person says one thing no need to debate because they all think the same way and any opposing view is met with a heavy dose of thick, dripping condescending snark & sarcasm…that’s if you’re not banned for having an opposing view in the first place.
btw the photos is Krafrwerk, no knock on them at all. They are one of music’s pioneers and one of the earliest progressive bands and I love their music, it’s just the photo fits what i’m trying to convey here.
This site is on crack. Posts go up supporting Wright and Dickey and it gets clobbered by the left wing. Posts go up not supporting them and the right wing steps in. Alderson is awesome, Alderson sucks. Wilpon is broke, no he’s not!
What is the matter with you people? Are you nuts? Have you lost leave of your senses???
This a fu*king Mets website! What the fu-ck is the matter with you people? TRS, Alex, Bayonne, donal, hotstreak, this is stupid, taskmasters, the whole rotten lot of you, are out of you fu*king minds!
Grow up already for gods sake! I’m sick and tired of all of you! You dont give anybody else a chance to say anything because it has to be either black or white and no in between. You are all a bunch of fu*cking morns.
All you do is fu*king complain 24/7 with all of you riding on your high horses like you’re smarter than the other and vice versa. You are all a pile of dip-sh*its! You are all lame brains. You should all be banned so decent people can have decent debates. You all disgust me.
This?
Brendan – Your points are not ignored and probably valid but you probably could have made them better had you not cursed excessively. Though it did remind me of my favorite Thanksgiving movie “Planes Trains & Automobiles”
Sigh… Another loser craving for some attention…
Ironic, with the names you mentioned, the entire spectrum of Mets subjects seems to be represented. Thus, how can nobody else get a chance to voice their opinion?
As for complaining, it seems that your post is nothing more than a bitch session and you, yourself, are on the highest of horses.
Eh don’t give him the time of day, he’s most likely just someone that got pissed off and changed their name and is now here making an arse of himself. Move along, nothing to see here.
TRS, I agree but that doesn’t mean his point is relevant. I get called a sandy lover and hater in the same durn post lol. It is a little out of hand being that none of us really knows what goes on behind the doors. I like to debate as much as the next guy but there are often times when the debate is not based on anything other than frames of mind.
(Irrelevant) lol
he’s most likely just someone that got pissed off and changed their name and is now here making an arse of himself”
THIS^^^^ or could be a she as well.. Never know when it’s trolling.. I think if we go by the names been thrown out there, if i have to bet on someone doing that, i’d say it was jesseP.
ha right, good try though.
HAHhahaahahahhaha
Brenden,
This can be a wild site and I’ll tell ya this, it aint gonna change. If you are not into it, there are other great places out there that do not get to this level of discourse.
Well, you certainly went about it the wrong way. But you essentially spot on. As a poster who very rarely posts but has been checking out this site for quite a while, I gotta say that I’m near the point where I may just stop coming here. I visit less already, as a matter of fact.
The amount of vitriol thrown back and forth here is incredibly overbearing. It mostly comes from one side, though the other has their moments. As a matter of fact, the vitriol and spiteful, snarky commentary has started leaking out of the comments section and into many of the stories posted.
Does it matter that one poster (or two) feels this way? I guess not. But how many of us are there who just never post? How many readers are lost because of the few?
Well too bad you feel this way. It just so happens that I’m witnessing the “saber wars” being played out now on MLBNetwork and it’s about time and even today Ken Rosenthal had addressed the level of animosity it’s getting to and it needs to calm down and even HE cited the saber people as being the ones who are the more antagonistic side because they’re the loudest when they don’t get their own way. He basically said saber is already accepted to varying degrees in baseball but it seems it’s not enough for them and they’re being unreasonable (in so many words, not exact quotes).
So as fair or unfair how it is, depending how you look at it, MMO was and is ground zero for those “saber wars” as this was the ONLY site that had open debate on the subject.
No other site provided a platform for debate. and that’s what makes this site unique. While it should be about Mets baseball only there just happens to be a new breed who just want to come in and shove old school baseball people aside.
It’s not going to happen.
But there is a site that provides only the saber POV and does not allow anything else. Maybe that’s the site for you?
Debate is healthy, but I just think you guys have posted so long together on this board that you “know” each other (or THINK you know each other) and it just escalates extremely quickly. Does that make sense? It’s beyond the anonymous internet arguing because you guys have posted together/against each other for so long. And like I said, it’s pretty extreme.
It’s crazy how the saber/traditional stuff has just exploded with the Trout/Cabrera thing. Obviously it’s been boiling over for a while, but damn. I am truly amazed by how blatantly immature the “professionals” are being.
Also, why was this even called for?
“But there is a site that provides only the saber POV and does not allow anything else. Maybe that’s the site for you?”
Well which professionals are you talking about? If you’re talking about a Larry Bowa or a Billy Ripken do you blame them for losing their cools? You have a bunch of snarky snots who wouldn’t even know what “trailing the baserunner” means and they’re gonna step right in and tell baseball lifers what to do? And be sarcastic and snarky about it? Right here on this site we’ve had 15 year old kids sign on and out of nowhere they proclaim they know just as much baseball as anybody here. They just proclaim it out of nowhere. You have high school kids with “this is stupid” gonna come in here and think they know more about the game than a lot of people here who’ve been involved in it or a fan of it for years? Just because they like fantasy baseball, obp, and xFIP?
I don’t blame baseball lifers for blowing a gasket and maybe this new breed of nerds needs a cumulative high, hard fastball thrown right at their collective heads and then they’ll maybe learn what real competition is about (figuratively speaking)..and it’s not on an excel spreadsheet.
Oh and I see the fire in some of their eyes when they start talking about this nonsense of how RBI is irrelevant. That’s the next thing you’re gonna see the baseball lifers on MLBNetwork take on and you know what? They’re winning the debates and I’m happy about that. So far the general consensus is that everybody understands it’s part of the game now to varying degrees but the problem is the obnoxious saber goons (MY name for them) who’s primary source for baseball knowledge is fantasy baseball want more and are the ones that are now spewing most of the vitriol on twitter.
Good for the baseball lifers on MLBNetwork.
hey man, just leave me out of it. Arguing can get pretty boring.
Bayonne,
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying here, BUT the same can be said the other way. These “lifers” too have a certain sense of entittlement to them. Many of the “saber goons” (as they are called here) are extremely intelligent people who have spent countless hours trying to pinpoint a formula. I am confident that the best way is to meld both disciplines and I am CERTAIN that there isn’t a team in baseball that uses only one without the other.
You brought up two qualified individuals who lean heavily towards the “traditional style,” I tell you I’ve had conversations with a few players (and former players) that love the saber part. Recently (within the last 4 days) I’ve heard David Cone and Curt Schilling preach the virtues of sabermetrics. I’ve even heard a couple of “Old Timers” carry on about them.
My belief is, baseball is an amazing game where it mixes team play and individual play and failure occurs 3 times more often than success, and that’s for the great ones! Any formula or style (or mix of them) that may help uncover success is welcome in my book.
Listening to the GM panel on MLBN radio I was shocked to hear how they said that WAR was one of the most heavily relied on stats by GMs. I myself am not a big fan but I wonder if Fangraphs and BR both have their own, do teams have their own as well?
Yeah they do. I know for sure that a lot of them make their own defensive metrics and incorportate them into WAR instead of uzr or the stat baseball reference uses. They might change other stuff too.
TRS – I’ve been saying that for how long?
The sabr stats that you & I see are NOT what teams use. Teams don’t have departments dedicated to sabr stat analysis just to read fangraphs. They do it so they can try and interpret the stats their way and find the players they want.
I would bet many of the more sabr friendly teams have their own measurements that we don’t even know about
to clarify, this was a study on baseball prospectus. And by WAR, I mean the WAR we see on fangraphs and baseball reference. They alter those formulas. I don’t remember how many teams or which teams do this though. But they actually use the specific stat WAR. I mean they probably have statisticians working on obscure stats, but there were quotes from front offices that say WAR is huge.
I would agree and they most likely adjust it to emphasize what they have decided is most important, could be OBP but also could be their park and how it plays. Damn evil people ruining the game.
Actually sloatsburg, Many of the Sabergoons here have no clue what math or calculations are contained in thier spouted sabermetrics they just look them up on Fangraphs and baseball ref without knowing a damn thing about what the metric says or how they got to that number in the first place.
But someone told them it was a saber so it must be the word of god unfurled under the prophet called Excel
Totally agree
Kind of abrasive….but alot of truth spoken
Nice Rant! I don’t disagree with what you’re saying (even if I fall into the jack ass ,although I wasn’t named category from time to time).
For The Record:
I believe DW is valuable asset as a complimentary player. If we had Delgado, Alou and Beltran in the order Wright would bat 5th and be a very valuable player on the Mets. Today is not yesterday. Nobody including DW can do it alone. Ike is not enough protection at even 270 BA. Wright does have long slumps as we know he has amazing hot streaks. A seven year extension to DW is an opportunity cost forgoing filling other needs which make this team a non-contender. If I were a fan of the Rangers, White Sox’s, Red Sox’s, I would be hoping my team gets David Wright. So I am not a DW hater. I love the Mets and want to contend. Trading DW will help if we make sure we just don’t give him away, I would love to retain DW if we had a 135 M productive payroll where DW had protection. I more than anyone think DW was robbed of the gold glove as I never ever seen better 3B played. Yes we all have our idols. I love Niese and Ike but I realize if the right deal is there they have to go.
Wright would be a great addition to the Arizona line-up. And they got outfielders ( and no, I dont mean Upton). Perhaps the Mets can get Eaton and a young arm like Skaggs for Wright?
I believe DW is valuable asset as a complimentary player”
For 5 straight years we’ve been saying the same thing.. Yet, we’ve been pegged as haters of the guy. He’s been a failure in terms of leading a team, and since he’s been the main guy in the mets lineup the mets have had a losing record. just because he’s the best player on a bad team does not make him a franchise player, if so, then Alex Gordon is a franchise player too..
It’s pretty obvious Dw will cost more than he’s worth in the final years of his career. Y is it that we need ‘solace’ to resign the ‘face of our franchise’ when its plain bad economics to do so. And Dickey also: a 38 yr old…with some gimpy tweaks startingto surface (legs, etc.), att the height of his value.
i luv ‘em both, but trade both for as many top / good prospects as possible…restack our holes in the System, maybe trade a package of ours & our haul to Miami for Stanton. Murph @ 3B, Turner @ 2B…until Flroes is ready for 3B or a guy or 2 from the trades steps up… Harvey, Niese, Santana, Gee, Hefner / Wheeler…ain’t bad….
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/you_half_to_believe_eIKwTe6jo8VL6v5hRQSJQL?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Mets
‘Wright ‘50-50’ to sign Mets extension’
‘But the two sides remain at a stalemate.’
“Part of it is [COO] Jeff Wilpon tries to win every negotiation, he doesn’t go for the middle ground,” said a person familiar with the club’s negotiating tactics.
**************************************************************************
Just a tidbit for those of you who believe the owners have nothing to do with what the FO is trying to accomplish.
So if it is true about Jeff wanting to win every negotiation and the years Sandy will give, 6 years, and the years David wants, 7 years, no way in hell a deal gets done unless David agrees on the 6 years.
GO JEFF WILPON!!! Do not settle for his demand and force sandy to trade him… We didn’t win sh** with him and sure as hell can finish 4th (Again) Without him anyways… Give the reins to Ike Benjamin Davis and move on from all those choke artist players we have from 2005-2008, and out of all this one is the biggest culprit. Franchise player my ass..
No Alex….
I’m actually in favor of keeping the wilpons as far away as possible from the table…
as a matter of fact…Im in favor of getting rid of the table
trade Wright + no more contract talks
I love Davis, definitely think he’s a keeper.
However, until he puts together a season where he’s healthy and actually lives up to his projected talent, we can’t pencil him in that role as a given.
Hopefully, 2013 is that year. If he can hit 32 HRs in a year where he had one of the worst first half a season as one could have, you have to be excited to see what he can do if hits the ground running.
SRT he was hurt for one year only!
His BA went down last year but the HRs went up.
If he gets the Average back up above .250 and maintains the 30+ HRs he will be a damn All Star before you know it!
I’ve been saying this all along…
Nothing will change until the Wilpons leave
By no means does this get Sandy off the hook, but lets face it…Sandy was begged to come here by Selig, he has no plans on staying here…and he is just trying to financially turn around the team…
I cant even compare Sandy to a normal GM, who is trying to win a WS and build a team from the bottom up
The things that Sandy was supposed to be good at, public relations, finding low bargain gems, player development, have been severely over-stated
No amount of Wilpon meddling covers that up
Jeff Wilpon did not tell Sandy to make that box of chocolates comment
nor did he tell Sandy to make comments about other GM’s and the contracts they offer to players ( Rizzo w/ Werth + Zimmerman )
Coincidentally…the guy everyone thinks was old-school and hated stats..( OMAR ) found more gems for lil pay than Mr. Super Saber Sandy
RA Dickey – Cy Young in 2012, one of the best SP from 2010-2012
Jose Valentin – one of the top 2B in 2006
Endy Chavez – one of the top defensive OF from 06-08
Duaner Sanchez – one of the best setup men in 06
Fernando Tatis – comeback player of the year 2008
Bobby Parnell, John Maine – Lucas Duda – Jon Niese, Dillon Gee – Daniel Murphy – Tejada – all were diamonds in the rough drafted in late rounds or signed as cheap IFA’s
Just a reminder, this is the NY Post, take it with a grain of salt.
Right about now, I’m taking them all with a grain of salt. No news from the FO usually means they have to ‘speculate’ on what might be going on to get an article out. Or put together some scenario that ‘might be likely’. Means nothing. Someone wake me up when there is real news to report.
Right… As soon as there’s reports of the owners being broke or faulting them for what’s happening to the mets then you jump the gun and celebrate telling us i told you so etc… Is there a more flip flopper in this blog than you??? Your agenda is getting bigger by the day..
LOL..what are you talking about??
Just what exactly, do you think I’ve flipped-flopped on? Your comment makes no sense.
The Mets are broke. That’s fact. That hasn’t changed. Their financial situation might have improved with the Picard lawsuit being settled but they’re far from solvent. I haven’t changed my stance on that. You and everyone else that reads here regularly knows that.
Again, the Wilpons are not broke. The Mets are. Not sure why that’s so hard from some to grasp.
Lighten up Francis…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k
And just a tidbit for you….
The source is most likely Wright’s Agent and all he knows is what Sandy told him and he has been hiding behind ownership and financial ruin since he got here!
Wait and when the sparks fly from that report expect to see the reversal and Jeff say he has nothing to do with those negotiations.