23
2012
Let’s See A Little More Of Matt Harvey, Before We “Omar Minaya” Him
An article by 
I caught a Mailbag Post on MetsBlog entitled: Can the Mets “Matt Moore” Matt Harvey?
Huh? Oh I see…
Basically that’s the MB reader’s term for describing the concept of locking up a young promising player through his arbitration years and maybe even buying out one or two years of that player’s free agency, as the Tampa Bay Rays did last Winter with Matt Moore.
In his response, my buddy Michael Baron said he likes to refer to this type of deal as an “Evan Longoria Deal”.
Now that’s perfectly cool and all, but I just want to point out that as Mets fans, we should probably refer to them as an “Omar Minaya Deal”.
Especially when you consider it was Omar Minaya who signed two of the best homegrown position players the Mets have ever produced to those same type deals, and did so long before the Matt Moore or Evan Longoria deals ever happened.
Of course I’m talking about Minaya’s foresight in signing both Jose Reyes and David Wright to team friendly deals that have stood the test of time and kept the Mets from ever having to challenge either player in arbitration, while also delaying their free agency by at least one year, and in the case of Wright, two years.
Minaya surprised most Met fans, and even the media was caught off guard, when he got both the Reyes and Wright deals done simultaneously – and then announcing them on August 8th, 2006…
Longoria wouldn’t even make his major league debut until two years later.
Who knows… Minaya may have even been the inspiration for both the Longoria and the Moore deals years later, as Tampa Bay takes a page out of his playbook. Just saying…
As for Matt Harvey, let’s see what he can do in 2013 before we decide to “Omar Minaya” him.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
30 Comments + Add Comment
Recent Comments
- DAP: on Scout Says No Way Flores Can Play Any Position But First Base: so then you disagree w/ the scout...
- Matt Mosher: on Summer Clearance: Possible Trade Strategies For The Mets: I don't see any tradeable assets on...
- B-Met Fan: on Cowgill and Nieuwenhuis Continue to Struggle in Minors: Kevin, you must mean Vaughn and Puello....
- Peter: on Summer Clearance: Possible Trade Strategies For The Mets: If they didn’t pull the trigger in...
- JerseyGuy276: on Collins Pulled Hefner Because He Was Excited For Him: It's official, Collins is loosing his mind...
Need Tickets To The Mets Game?
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
5393 Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1269 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
I think we’ll need more than a ten game sample size before signing Harvey or any player to a 6-7 year contract. Not a very smart question to be honest.
Actually, if you want to go one step further, the Mets would have to “John Hart” Harvey since it was Hart who locked up young Indians like Loften to long term deals.
Niese was locked in last year and I would expect to see Ike get a deal between 2013 and 2014.
How did he lock up Lofton to a long term deal when they traded Lofton to Atlanta…then 3 months later resigned him again…in 1998…his rookie year was in 1992….they never bought out a free-agent years, they only bought the first 4 years…which were 2 pre-arb and 2 arb….
same with Manny Ramirez….who left in 1999 for Boston…
the indians basically assumed almost all of the risk and got nothing back in return
I see your point, I just think that buying out free-agent years at market level prices set 7 years earlier benefits the team, If Omar did what Hart did, Reyes would’ve been a free-agent after 2008…Wright after 2009…
Hart was the first GM I can remember that bought out arbitration years of most of his top young talent in their 1st and 2nd years in the bigs. Belle, Lofton, Baerga, Manny, Thome. That’s how he kept that team of stars together with a low payroll. He probably could’ve kept it together longer had he bought out some free agent years but who knows if the players and or ownership would’ve agreed to it. Hart’s minor league systems have produced more star quality players than any other GM that I could think of.
With Scott Boras as agent?
I agree signing young players for the prime years of their career is a solid move and well done by Minaya with regards to Reyes and Wright.
Tampa Bay first did this with Carl Crawford actually. In 2005 they signed a 23 year old Crawford to a 4 year deal as his arbitration was starting. That was Friedman’s first “early” signing that set up their game plan for guys like Longoria, Moore etc.
We’ve seen plenty of teams do this though since the early 2000′s. Michael Young is one that comes to mind with Texas.
I think without reading MB’s mailbag, the reader probably was referencing locking young players up like Moore & Longo after seeing them for only 1 year in the bigs. That’s the biggest difference between Wright & Reyes’ contracts.
You can compare Wright & Reyes extensions to that of Michael Young or Carl Crawford.
Matt Harvey would be comparable to Moore and Longo. So it’s a little different
Didn’t the Indians used to do this with regularity in the 90s?
Yup. John Hart pretty much locked up all their young stars. He developed so many star players he had no room for a few of them. Baerga, Belle, Manny, Thome. Traded off guys like Brian Giles, Sean Casey, Richie Sexson and I’m sure i’m missing a few but that’s a lot of talent from one minor league system.
Its good to see you here Fonzie, I used to see you on metswiki or whatever ed calls it now. I remember you were a young kid but always had good posts there.
That must’ve been another Fonzie, Ray. I’m a middle aged frustrated Met fan. Lol. Alfonzo had a big following so I’m sure I’m not the only one to use his name on Met blogs.
Cards did it with Pujols in 2004. This has likely been going on for a while. I don’t think you Omar was the first, nor the Rays.
the rays are probably the best at it though. 5 years 14 mil with 3 option years for matt moore is insane.
It’s more likely that it has evolved over time to its current structure. And it will continue to do so as the rules change.
The rays are the only ones that sign people like this so cheaply, and so quickly ( it was done after moore’s first start).
XtreemIcon beat me to it.
The Rays must be uber-confident in their minor league development to have not been bitten by this. I know they traded Kazmir just as the wheels were coming off but I am more interested in how they seem to know who is going to be effective. I truly think that the “system” itself has to be given credit for producing talent such as they have. I always marveled at how some teams always turned out effective ML and yet the Mets turned out flop after flop for so long. I wonder sometimes if the MiL coaching and player development strategies of teams like the Rays aren’t the real source of success. Do you think it is a coincidence that so many Mil’rs fail to make an impact but certain teams seem to be able to get the best out of their system? I know high drafts help a teams chances but that really can’t be all of it, can it?
I live in St Louis, hence follow the Cards to a certain degree. They do a few things:
They love power arms. Granted this is nothing new, but they’re loaded with them at huge moment.
They try to keep players on the same team through their development. The goal is to emphasize teamwork. It also tends to show who is team vs me oriented.
They stress winning at all levels through their system. The goal is to get the players used to winning and to learn how to win rather than accumulate stats. It also makes them learn losing at the team level stinks.
They never get a great draft position. But they have a great farm and they are always in the thick of it with a mid-level payroll.
I must say whatever they do seems to work. And the fans here seem to enjoy it.
“They stress winning at all levels through their system. The goal is to get the players used to winning and to learn how to win rather than accumulate stats”
Now THAT sounds like an excellent philosophy to me – teaching the importance of WINNING throughout the entire farm system. I like that. And you’re right, the Cards are always good and they never draft high because they’re always at the very worst pretty good.
I lived in the Lou for about 7 years. I loved it. I agree the Cards do a good job of producing winning talent. However, I am haunted by images of the Cubs producing power arm after power arm who can’t stay healthy. A winning mentality is a huge thing but it seems like these guys come to the ML’s with a certain skill set that allows them to succeed and management capitalizes on this set. The cards do it the, Rays and others do it. What worries me as a Mets fan is why do our guys tend to lose themselves when they get to the show? It seemed like there was little to no consistency from low-a to the ML’s for years. I really do not like the direction our team has taken in the past few years but I will say that some semblance of consistency may be eking through.
Fwiw they never allowed Duncan to coach anyone except at the ML level. Their minors had a pitching philosophy that was different from Duncan’s. Kind of blows the whole Duncan is God’s gift to pitching arguement. They kept Duncan because TLR wanted him, and they kept TLR to keep Pujols happy. Nobody here liked TLR or Duncan
When I was there, most people seemed relatively agreeable with TLR. Duncan was not talked about much until the reclamation projects started to come along. I left in 2004 so I missed most of that. I know guys who hated TLR’s handling of the pen and constant over-thinking but the results were often acceptable. I didn’t know about the different strategies from Duncan, that is interesting.
I moved here in 2007. I rarely hear anything positive about either, but there’s more venom against TLR.
Regarding the reclamation projects: is anyone wanting to give Warthen credit for RA? More than likely Duncan was in the right place at the tight time on some if them.
I don’t think many will give Warthen any credit on R.A. Warthen may have a good re pore with his pitchers but his value has not been accepted by too many people that I know. He may be a freaking pitching genius but such is the life of a coach. Niese has developed, Gee looks as good as he could hope but it’s just so unclear. The bullpen has been a complete disaster and I think Warthen is the target for most of the fans dissatisfaction.
Sylow59,
I love your comments. It always shocks me when I hear PD people say “It’s not about wins and losses it’s about development.” If that weretrue Mark Langston would be Cy Young. It’s not just the Mets but nearly every PD person and in other sports too. In the NFL they treat the pre-season games that way. That’s a JOKE ! Winning needs to be more of a focus during development. I don’t mean have a single A guy throw 160 pitches in one game just to win it but there needs to be a focus put on winning. You can’t just flip a switch.
Weighing this out it would appear that the Mets would be taking on considerable risk to sign Harvey to an extension at this point in his career. He has a very small sample size although it was fascinating. I would suggest looking into this around the break or the next offseason. One poster eluded to Harvey’s agent Boras being an impediment. I see this as a stumbling block as well. Harvey turns 24 in march and a six year deal would make him 30 at its termination. While 30 is not old, it could devalue his first trip to FA.
I’m not saying Minaya was the first, guys. I’m saying rather than looking at other teams and using their players as an example of this. We are Mets fans. We’ve done this too. Minaya did it. Let’s compliment our own team rather than looking at the Rays and at Longoria or Moore as some sort of precedent. It’s happened before. Right here in Flushing.
Right but I think what people like me are trying to explain is that signing Harvey today to a long term deal is NOT anything like signing Reyes & Wright and what Omar did.
It IS like Tampa signing Moore or signing Longoria.
Longoria signed a deal in April, 2008 worth $17.5 mil with 3 club options at the end. This gave Longoria guaranteed money before he even took a big league at bat.
Moore was signed after 5 big league appearances.
Reyes was in his 4th year when he signed and Wright in his 3rd.
It’s different. The Rays took a calculated risk but with a young player you never know what the future holds so a player looks for guarantees early. That would be the same if they signed Harvey today.
Extending a player like Ike Davis would be more comparable to the Wright/Reyes contract
What the Rays did with Longoria and Moore was also a sign of confidence to them.
If possible I would give Harvey the same deal Moore got.
No one did this like the Rays do. Not Omar, not the Indians, no one. Moore was signed after one major league start. Longo was called up on April 14 and signed longterm on April 18. That is much different than signing a guy after one season, or before he bits arbitration. Omar or the Indians or anyone else has no claim to this strategy at all.
the thing about locking up your young talent is it leaves a lot less talent out there in the FA pool. there is virtually nothing out there in the pitching dept. this year making it imperitive to develop and keep your young pitchers now more than ever.