20
2012
Jeff Wilpon Addresses Wright and Dickey Negotiations
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Jeff Wilpon responded to a report in the New York Post and told reporters that he is more optimistic now than a month ago that the Mets can get new deals done with David Wright and R.A. Dickey.
He is encouraged more and more as the process moves along because there’s been back and forth conversations, reports Marc Carig.
Wilpon also added that he could see a scenario where both or one enters next season without a new deal in place.
He went onto ranking what he thinks will happen as follows:
1. He signs both players and keeps them long term.
2. He lets them play out their options next season and then takes the comp picks.
3. He can trade them both this offseason.
It appears that by the way Jeff Wilpon phrased everything, that GM Sandy Alderson has little say in the matter, and that he’s the one pulling all the strings. He never even mentioned Sandy.
Original Post 9:00 AM
In today’s New York Post, Mike Puma writes that according to an industry source with knowledge of the discussions,there is just a 50-50 that David Wright signs a long-term extension with the Mets this offseason, Mike Puma reports in this morning’s New York Post.
The source said Wright is less than thrilled with the length of contract and amount of guaranteed money the Mets have offered. It could set up a game of chicken between Mets brass and Wright’s agents, Sam and Seth Levinson, heading to the winter meetings, which begin in two weeks in Nashville, Tenn.
Wright, who turns 30 next month, is believed to be seeking a deal of at least seven years and $125 million that would give him the largest contract for a position player in franchise history.
Puma says the two sides are now at a stalemate, and that part of this is that Mets Chief Operating Officer Jeff Wilpon doesn’t want to go for the middle ground according to a person familiar with the club’s negotiating tactics.
Wright has said he will not negotiate with the Mets beyond spring training, putting him in position to hit the open market next offseason if a new deal can’t be struck.
The plot thickens.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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God help this team the day it’s just Jeff as owner.
I remember when Doubleday sold, he predicted Jeff was going to bring this team down….
SRT,
Werent you the one who said,
“srt November 20, 2012 at 9:07 am
Right about now, I’m taking them all with a grain of salt. No news from the FO usually means they have to ‘speculate’ on what might be going on to get an article out. Or put together some scenario that ‘might be likely’. Means nothing. Someone wake me up when there is real news to report.”
____________________________________________________________________________
So you cant be so QUICK to fault Jeff Wilpon
Practice what you preach, not just when convenient for you
Yup, I’m the one that said that.
Don’t know what one has to do with the other.
I’ve been faulting the Wilpons for years. I see no reason for me to stop as of this date. Nothing has changed, in fact it’s gotten worse. That’s my opinion. If you don’t agree, that’s fine.
Until there’s some definite decision made on the Wright/Dickey contract extensions, all we can do is speculate on what’s going on.
My point is you’re critical of other posters here when they reply to reports that are issued via sources but you do the same thing.
It is a blog and we like to reply to ALL reports and give our OPINION whether they turn out to be false or true. After-all this is the essence of blogging interacting with our varying opinions.
Define ‘critical’.
I might post a response to another poster that might include the opposite opinion but ‘critical’ is an exaggeration on your part.
Wow SRT the wolves are on you this morning. Hopefully you wore your flack jacket to work this morning.
LOL…flack jacket firmly in place.
Wolves? You call that an attack? Just yesterday (I think), I saw srt dio something similar posting some old comment at either Bayonne or Metsie. (Not sure who). Let’s not overreact here. Have a Happy Thanksgiving to both of you..
It wasn’t just on this post Alex was quick out of the gate as well. And all I was doing was telling my girl to get ready. Have a great turkey day as well. all the best to you and your family.
You need to go back and reread that MM.
I posted a link and a line from that link to Bayonne.
Bayonne proceeded to post two separate long paragraphs jumping all over me.
My only response to his rant was something to the effect of his memory was faulty, just move on.
and wouldn’t you know it.. Now since the article being written is blaming the wilpons, then it’s ok NOT to take it with a grain of salt…
Flip Flopper…
Critical of Jeff, not the Wilpons.
Not the first time reports of Jeff in this capacity has surfaced. That’s been going on since 2002.
You’ve taken up this tune as soon as someone takes a shot at sandy alderson.. With his “It’s not his fault it’s the wilpons” rant pretty much all the time.. I am sure Wilpons had a lot to do with acquiring eamus, hu, carrasco, thayer, boyer, rauch, francisco, etc right?? You are something else.. YOu’re flip flopping on how we view things it’s just mind boggling..
About 10 minutes ago you said reports are just that reports. now you jumped right back on the it’s ok to go with this article because it blames the wilpons, becuase it does fit your agenda…
Just when you thought the Wilson’s couldn’t make this situation any worse, cue Jeffy boy…
Oh I just cant wait til this fiasco of re-signing and/or trading Wright, Dickey is over. I and others are tired of hearing about it.
I wanna see what Aldersons plan is(no i dont want him to tell me) I want to see the wheels start turning. Lets see if he can put his money where his mouth was in regards to making trades to improve this team rather than free agency. The last 2 years leave a lot to be desired.
I dont like the sound of this. I knew they were behind this delay. Alderson did say their would be a quick resolution, that is until Wilpon got in the way.
All I’m gonna say is that if Wright isn’t re-signed my heart as a Met fan will be crushed. Just reading this gave me a bad feeling all over. I don’t want to think about this team without David Wright. It wouldn’t be the same, and I have no idea who would take his place.
Of course it would be crushed… Not having his smile at 3rd base would be devastating right???
Assuming all Gina knows about baseball is smiles huh? Maybe she’d be crushed seeing a 6 time All Star leave, or the guy that has broken most of the All time NY Mets records leave.
Quick to the sexist remarks huh? Racism bad, sexism ok
WAKE UP – its all bad!
So it’s ok to come in here and brag about how good looking he is and how his smiles light up their day right?? Not sure what your point is about breaking mets records, offensively this franchise has been lacking the players, don’t forget who for many years hold the record for hits in franchise history.. a below avg baseball player, we’re not talking some HOF ok so stop acting as if he’s the greatest thing since slice bread.. Ohh, wait, according to you he IS!!!!!!!!!
Alex jest read through your response again. When people regularly complain about not wanting to post here, it’s because of this example. There was no reason for you to chime in. People love David Wright and want him to stay a part of the team, he’s been here for ten years. You might not agree but you don’t have to bring your anti-Wright rhetoric into every comment thread.
“People love David Wright and want him to stay a part of the team, he’s been here for ten years.”
And it just eats him alive.
” It wouldn’t be the same, and I have no idea who would take his place”
Let me help you with that
Placido Polanco – 1 year 4 mil per year
Daniel Murphy – 2nd year of arb – 4 mil per year
Wilmer Flores – rookie – 400K
Hope this helps
Which one is going to represent us in the ALL Star game?
None of them. He’ll put up better numbers than all 3 of them. I have no problem with not wanting to give him more than 5 years and moving him if it improves the team but there are some knuckleheads here that act like he’s Butch Huskey.
After the litany of third basemen the Mets have had we have to take care of this now.
Puma and his “Sources” are the biggest joke in journalism.
As any fan that needed to write a speculative article, this scenario is probably the most common one that we would come up with.
We will see the truth soon enough, just enjoy your Turkey.
Sorry, I don’t agree. If this is true, then Jeff is doing the Wright thing. This is David’s SECOND big contract and they seem to be offering over 100 million already. Wright already said he wants to win most of all; he wouldn’t chase every last dollar. He seems to be lying about both.
If he wanted to win, he’d ask for a trade and not an extension. If 100+ million isn’t enough when you’ve already made a fortune, then how is that not chasing every dollar?
Jeff is correct. Wright ain’t the same player he was in 06,07,08. He’s declined and isn’t worth a giant contract that’ll come back to haunt the Mets in 7 years. 5 yrs…6th yr option. 110 million if it gets picked up. Add that to the 16 mill he’s making this yr…126 million for 7 yrs. if that’s not enough, then he can go ……. himself!
Wait, I’m confused so now you flip-flop and say Wilpons are doing the right thing? LMAO! You blow with the wind.
Not spending and over spending are two different things Met Maniac. You’re very ignorant.
Eh, who cares? Just more media fodder. One day they are close, then miles apart, then ready to negotiate, then no chance, then… blah blah blah. Realize that these reporters get paid to produce stories so when there isn’t one you just take what you already have and add a new twist.
You are a grown man. Do you really think beat reporters get their leads from bathroom attendants and janitors? Is that what you think is happening? If it is, you are very delusional. Have you ever been a beat reporter, or is this just a snippet from your best seller “The World According to Beat Writers”?
No not at all. I just most likely have a different idea of what a reporters main job is. To me the media in general has changed from being foremost concerned with substance to being more concerned with audience and viewership. So while I am sure there is something to back up the story and it’s not a bathroom attendant, I think that reporters actually are able to take the facts and rehash them into new stories when there isn’t one there.
Thus this is why we get 100 different post that sway with the wind. One day they are close, the next day far apart, one day it’s Wright holding them up, the next Wilpons, one day they are trading him, one day they are building around him. However, you could actually get everyone of those stances from one quote just taken different ways.
Example
According to a Mets source: The Mets and Wright are slowly making progress in contract negotiations with the two groups rumored to be struggling with the final details. The Mets maintain they will do what’s best for the team and if an agreement can’t be reached they will look to trade Wright while they are currently not discussing this with any teams and believe a deal can get done.
Report 1: Mets and Wright Making progress, close to deal.
Report 2: Mets and Wright still struggling with contract
Report 3: Mets may be forced to trade Wright
Report 4: Mets aren’t looking to trade Wright
Report 5: Mets prepared to move on without Wright
Report 6: Mets and Wright close to deal, just finishing final details.
Report 7: Wilpons currently not willing to budge on contract.
Report 8: Wright currently refuses to sign contract offered by Wilpons due to final details.
Again, it’s contract negotiations.
Report 1 and the last one are true.. They offered him a fair, more than fair contract, he’s not worth $15+ Million a year. . Yet the mets are offering more than that to save face, then him being a greedy ballplayer like every other baseball player he refused the contract and counter offer what he deserves according to his choking ass… Then jeff said hell no, but of course DW’s fan base will accuse him of being an idiot and a bad owner etc just because their guy is not getting paid MORE when he said a month and a half ago that it wasn’t about the money… Uhhh, fast forward to now, YES IT IS.. Ego, money, greed, david wright is just like the rest of them, who knew!
Man did you miss the point.
I made that quote up to just show how a reporter can make multiple stories that are exactly the opposite of each other from the same quote. None of it’s true. LOL.
“To me the media in general has changed from being foremost concerned with substance to being more concerned with audience and viewership.”
Nope thats not it….
It used to be concerned with Accuracy now the focus is being FIRST and as a result they don’t triple check sources or get independent confirmation the way they used to.
Blame the Internet and 24Hr News/Sports channels for that!
There is only ONE industry source (as opposed to a team source) that would know a damn thing about the negotiations and thats Wright’s Agent!
It’s not hard to figure out who leaked this at all since they didn’t use TEAM SOURCE which would indicate it came from someone who works for the Mets.
The way the cite the source is the key here….
A Source = Rumor
A Knowledgable Source = Someone who is known to have good connections to that type of information but is not employed by the team or any of it’s players.Also not associated with any other team.
Industry Source = Anyone who works in Baseball, Agents, Scouts, Other GMs etc…
Team Source = Someone who works with the team
So in this case the Knowledgable Industry source can really only be Wright’s Agent because he is the only NON-TEAM Source that would know what is going on…
Pretty easy to figure out who the source is once you have cracked the code.
Here’s where the public relations war that I’ve been talking about for so long begins.
If there is any legitmacy to this story I can only assume 2 things here:
1- Wright is just another greedly mlb player looking for as much money as he can get, or
2- Wright is through with these inept, incompetent owners and is looking to flee this organization as fast as he could so he’s not about to accept any money they’re are offering and may ultimately sign elsewhere for less.
Either way, both sides are now engaged in a huge pulic relations war because neither side wants to be responsible for his leaving the NY.
Or it could be that reporters got nothing and are trying to twist what they already have into a different angle?
Absolutely….their job is to sell papers. Thats why more than half the bullspit they write about is totally made up.
Well not exactly. I think that they have to at least produce something realistic and have a source to back up their words or teams would shun them in the future. I think it’s a give and take. However, as I said above I believe they take a quote and rehash it about 101 times to get different angles to the same story.
“,,,,,neither side wants to be responsible for his leaving the NY.”
A friendly divorce is needed.
Mets get to rebuild.
DW get to play for a contender.
No fault divorce.
Why are you being so sensible?
Do you really think Wright is holding us back from rebuilding?
Sure you can load up on two or three kids if you trade him, but that won’t work or be enough if you haven’t already got most of it done already via the draft.
Do you really think after a draft and a half (since he passed on half of last year’s picks) that we are really less than three years away from being rebuilt?
If not those two or three kids are not doing a thing for you and you might as well keep the player who get people out to the park so you don’t lose even MORE money.
I dont blame Jeff Wilpon for not wanting to find middle ground with David Wright.Reason being he and his father Fred Wilpon dont view David Wright as a SUPERSTAR talent. Which Fred stated then later had to backtrack after receiving negative attention for being honest.
So why should/would they pay him like one???
And I dont wanna hear the Zimmerman comparison….The Zimm is 2 yrs younger and signed a 6yr $100M deal and the Nats are in a different place than the Mets which is win now while the Mets are years away from even contending….
If we re-sign Wright I wouldnt go over 5yrs guarantee with a 6th year option 100M deal nothing more
Im all for trading Wright for numerous pieces NOW at the winter meetings or shortly thereafter.
Actually I think maybe the Mets just came in and offered him exactly what they believed he was worth and most likely said that’s it. Now it’s the agents job to go back and see if they can get them to increase it or not and to also take a look at where he might be traded to if not signed AND what type of deals he could expect on an open market.
One thing that we haven’t talked about much is if the acquiring team will want a negotiation window for Wright?
That negotiation window could back fire to the Mets. What if Wright doesnt want to go the team the Mets want him to go to and the aquiring team backs off when they cannot extent Wright on their terms?
Well with the Wright situation it’s hard for it to backfire as he is under contract for a full year and doesn’t have a no trade clause. Thus it’s really just a luxury for the acquiring team.
But then it would be a one year rental and would that still get you much in a trade?
That’s all he is to anyone right now and we haven’t heard anything about giving a window. So again I think it would depend on the team.
Whose the one that’s been saying that Wright is as greedy if not more than Jose Reyes? Who’s the one who said Wright giving Mets home town discount was was just made up BS from those who put him on a pedestal? The real David Wright is standing up, lol!!! Wish he’d do that in a game.
Maniac, you COULD be right, then again you could be wrong. These reports change like the weather on a spring day.
Maybe baseball is different than brokering a deal in business, but where I work negotiations can take months, and they do change everyday. They never stop evolving, especially when there union workers involved. Everyday their would be several new counter offers and proposals on the FAX machine. Is baseball that different? Especially when you are in the $100 million dollar range?
LOL, I really showed a poor usage of the words they’re, their and there. I blame you TRS.
It just gave me a new appreciation for my secretary and assistant. I might just put a little something extra in their envelopes on Christmas Eve. LOL
Sure, why not blame me? LOL.
I’ll agree with you there.
I don’t think many of these negotiations are as simple or cut and dried as some fans want them to be.
Thank GOD this was not happening with jose reyes last year.. He’d be crucified by mets fans.. BUT since is the All American, Marry my daughter, good looking, dimple smiling david wright, then no, he’s not greedy at all for wanting more money, he’s just testing to see if the wilpons are broke or not… Amazing!
In my day, Wright was what you called a real Aqua Velva man.
Happy Thanksgiving Alex my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28-Y4tc6nCo
Where in the world did you dig that up? Actually it brought back memories.
Lmao THIS^^^^
YOu too have a happy thanksgiving my friend..
Alex, I still don’t get why you care if some fans treat Wright differently than Reyes or if the Mets themselves treat Wright differently than Reyes.
TRS, again… i am not trying to go this way, i am sure damaja will have this one for THE CORE, however, you cannot help to ignore some of the things that were said about reyes when negotiatons happened the way the happened. He took the money and left, all kinds of names were given and thrown at reyes for doing it. Yet, with wright, who’s basically another hypocrite baseball player all is well.. He said about month and a half or so ago that it was about winning, it was about the direction of the team and he had the 100% support of mets fans who were saying how loyal he is, how he’s not about money, he wants to win yada yada.. Fast forward to now and all that is thrown out the window people seem to have forgotten he said that and we’re seeing that he just like pretty much all baseball players is greedy when it comes to money yet noone is criticizing the man, but had this being reyes forget it… He’d be treated just as beltran was when he came here.. Mets fans are a very very distasteful fan base to say the least… And you know this!!
Didn’t Reyes sign at like 12:03AM after he hit FA?
Nah, the Marlins showed up unannounced at 12:01 with a box of chocolates and a promise they were going to build around him in Miami. He didn’t sign until they panicked and gave him an offer no one else would even touch.
And they promised not to trade him.
And I never faulted Reyes for leaving. I’d have done the same. Though, I actually like Canada, so this would have been a win win for me.
And that’s exactly what Wright is looking for.. BUT since he’s your dream guy and alway have been you won’t mention the same about your greedy ass ballplayer because you wouldn’t dare touching him.. You’re including in the double standarish fan base we have… pathetic
LOL, you can’t read but it’s ok. At least you can call others stuoid.
“Of course I am a Wright fan, that has nothing to do with my feelings on Reyes, however, the similarities are that I feel the exact same way about him. I would love for him to be re-signed at a good price, however, if he wants more than the Mets are comfortable with then I will not blame him or the Wilpons for doing what they believe is in the best interest for the Mets.”
This is what I also said about Reyes.
Also, of course I have already mentioned the fact that have have written about 3-5 articles advocating trading Wright. But as usual Alex you never let the truth get in the way of one of your blind rants.
“Mets fans are a very very distasteful fan base to say the least… And you know this!!” LOL, no actually I completely disagree, they like the entire Mets circle are judged based on the ignorance of a few.
As to your attempt at a point, I still don’t get why you care how others view Mets players and allow that to change how you feel about a situation. I liked Jose Reyes, I wanted him to be re-signed, I also understood he wasn’t worth close to what the Marlins paid him and that he would no longer be a Met. I didn’t blame him or the Wilpons, baseball is a business and I always root for the name on the front not the name on the back. Of course I am a Wright fan, that has nothing to do with my feelings on Reyes, however, the similarities are that I feel the exact same way about him. I would love for him to be re-signed at a good price, however, if he wants more than the Mets are comfortable with then I will not blame him or the Wilpons for doing what they believe is in the best interest for the Mets.
I just don’t get the personal grudges because one group likes one player more than another. Seriously what would it matter if I believed the Mets should have stayed away from Reyes never offered him a contract and then want them to sign Wright to a mega deal? Who cares?
You are exactly right Alex. If this was Jose Reyes these same people like Cleanup would be calling Jose greedy.
Absolutely no doubt about it and you can take it to the bank that is EXACTLY what they would have been saying.
That couldn’t be farthest from the truth. I even went back through the RDM archives during this period and the vast majority said good for him for taking care of his family. I don’t remember anyone saying they felt Reyes was being greedy, more like the Mets were being stingy. Stop trying to create something that doesn’t exist.
Nester October 28, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Reyes will play wherever he wants. If he wants to stay then let him sign a team friendly deal. Otherwise get lost and take your selfish attitude and your greedy millions with you. I only want players who love the game and give it their all every season not only in their walk years like Reyes did.
I have about 1,000 comments like this from 2011 when the “negotiations” were going on…
Please dont let me embarrass you
Well maybe I’ll bite and embarrass ME. Who really gives a eff what Nester thinks? That who we are talking about, interject somewhere else.
“. I even went back through the RDM archives ”
Also who the hell is Nester and why do we care what he thinks? Imagine if all of the Mets fanbase were judged based on YOUR opinions.
Really?????? People toojk sandy’s side like a MOFO… They accused reyes of ALWAYS wanting to go to miami, he wasn’t worth it anyways, good riddance, i hope he injures himself etc… YOu must’ve not been paying attention… Maybe in the desert people said that, not in this blog..
Hell, the next day alderson came up with garbage acquisitions and the main culprit leading the reyes is a bad guy marathon came up with one of the most ASININE articles being written about alderson having a good day.
Again, getting caught up in who says what instead of what is actually said.
” I even went back through the RDM archives”
His point was the very ones that you accuse the most of being anti-Reyes were damn pro-Reyes. It is ok you know to be proReyes and proWright, they aren’t Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair. Hell even those two teamed up many times as well.
You can’t see the fact that many of us are Mets fans first, rooting always for the name on the front of the jersey. We love Wright and Reyes because they were home grown Mets but also realize that baseball is a business and while they may leave, as long as there is a player with Mets on the front we will have someone to root for and get excited about.
Did you really have to go all Dusty vs. The Nature Boy. Something tells me the day is going to get a little crazy. Whoooooo!
LOL, don’t forget I live right outside of Charlotte which is Nature Boy country!!!!
My wife actually at lunch next to Flair a couple of weeks ago and he took time gets some pics with her. He’s actually pretty cool, met him a few times. I asked her if he mentioned Space Mountain, luckily she had no idea what I was talking about.
http://www.kayfabenews.com/mars-rover-captures-photos-of-ric-flairs-space-mountain/
I hate you I am totally on youtube watching flair content when I should be wrapping up what I have to do because I will be out for the rest of the week.
LOL, I grew up within an hour drive of both Winston and Charlotte. How many classic NWA matches did I see? WWE uh… WWF was an afterthought for us Horsemen fans.
Yea the northeast was WWF definitely country but I was able to get AWA once in a while and NWA was on every Saturday I believe on one of the Turner channels.
Lets be accurate now….It was ther WWWF they didn’t drop the second W until they went national and caused a firestorm for breaking the long held regional agreement all the League owners had before Vince started syndicating and doing PPV with the advent of Wrestlemania.
A good friend of mine was the tech manager for all of thier broadcasts.
Oh now you are dating yourself, LOL. I didn’t start watching until a little before WM1 when Hogan beat the Sheik. But would you expect anything less from Vince Jr. What an amazingly shrewd and talented business man. Even when watching UFC, when you look at the production work on the matches it is all because of what he did. Even the failed XFL, all those zip line camera’s were invented from him trying to create new viewing angles in his product. I don’t think many people understand all the work they put in to create such a well produced product for TV viewers.
Yup, Turner basically created the Horsemen.
True but could they really try and hire some actual former Wrestlers to be the main writers and leave them alone? Man is the product close to garbage now.
Yea I haven’t followed it in years. Every once in a while I will turn it on for a second but there is really no substance anymore.
Salty, that Shiek match wasn’t at WM 1. It just your run of the mill show at MSG that birthed Hulkamania. At WM 1, Hogan teamed with Mr. T against Roddy Piper and Cowboy Bob. That takes me back. I remember all the Flair/Steamboat and Flair/Windham matches on the Superstation. Good memories.
Wasn’t Ali the special guest ref?
Yea I know, just re-read my sentence again… I was all marked up for Mr. T on WM1!
Close. I think he was something like a secondary ref because if memory serves, I think I remember him spending most of his time outside the ring.
Yeah, he did. He kept swinging and missing at Piper. Guy always was rascally
LOL yes I’m a bit more Salty than you!
I go back to the Days where Bruno Samartino was the Champ and Spiros Arion (managed by Fred Blasie) was the challenger.
Back when the original Shiek was still throwing flash paper and you could see George the Animal Steele eat a turnbuckle a week!
Hell I used to watch the Spanish Language shows back then as well. You could see the LA wrestlers there.
Yes Ali was. And speaking of run of the mill MSG matches. Back in the day when they were at MSG, the show would be live on the MSG channel. It was generally 2 hours long and it was the few times where you could watch Hogan in a real match that wasn’t a PPV. It would just be match after match with no interviews. Those were good Sat nights.
i think there were no celebrities, it was just a regular house show in 1984. I was at the his first title defense vs. Paul Orndorff in Feb 1984 and couple years after that i started to lose interest as it went away from the smokey filled arenas with actual good guys vs. bad guys with the good guys acting like actual human beings and being nice and bad guys varying to Abdullah the Butcher to clever villains that were sometimes cheered like Billy “Superstar” Graham and Bob Orton Jr..
I hated what it became and that was a cartoon with the only moves being jumping off the top rope and clotheslines. Pedro Morales, Bruno Sammartino, & Hulk Hogan = outstanding WWF champs. After that it became a cartoon.
Spiros Arion was a GREAT villain. The heat for his matches vs. Sammartino was incredible. No need for intro music back, you can always tell who was coming down the aisle just by the reaction of the fans. And naturally how did he become so hated? By turning on Chief Jay Strongbow. How many partners turned on Chief Jay Strongbow? LOL. Off the top of my head I can think of Handsome Jimmy Valiant and Peter Maivia being at least 2 partners that turned against Strongbow.
It was so much better back then because the heat was REAL and each wrestler was actually portrayed as human beings instead of the muscle-bound geeks that need to sound like radio DJs with a mic that they are today.
I remember Arion and Bruno were the tag team champions. That’s why the heat was so great, because they used to be friends.
Bruno and Arion were never tag team champs. Arion never held any titles while with the WWWF
They may have tag-teamed in the 60s when Arion was very popular and I believe at that time he was friends with Sammartino along with Domenic Denucci, Antonio Parisi and those guys but him and Bruno were never champs as far as the official WWWF tag title is concerned. The very first team to hold the WWWF tag-title as it’s known today were Crazy Luke Graham and Tarzan Tyler and Bruno was certainly not a tag-team title holder after that.
I think you’re mistaken. I’m pretty sure he was WWWF tag champs on two separate occasions, with Tone Parisi before Bruno.
We’re not talking about the titles as they’re known today, we’re talking about the WWWF titles, when they were part of the NWA.
The WWWF Title started in 1970 with a fictitious tournament that had Tarzan Tyler and Crazy Luke Graham defeating Bruno Sammartino and Dick The Bruiser in a match that never happened. Anything before that is NOT the WWWF tag team title
Bruno and Arion teamed up in the 60s like I said and not the 70s They held the US tag titles which was NOT the WWWF tag title. That started in 1971
Damn bayonne, talking about Bruno Sammartino brings back memories.. Also makes me feel old as sh**… Lol.. Good talk though.
correction; It was Dick The Bruiser and the original Sheik in that fictitious match vs. Tyler & Graham. I thought it was Sammartino
What, no love for Bob Backlund? Ken Patera, Rocky Johnson, Tony Atlas, Haystacks Calhoun, Baron Von Roske, Mil Mascaras, Baron Miguel Sacluna, Dominic Denucci, Big Cat Ernie Ladd?
Samartino and Arion were never Tag team champs, Parisi and Arion were the team if I remember correctly.
Arion and Strongbow were supposed to try and take the belt from I believe it was the Valiant brothers and in that Match Arion turned on Strongbow making him a Villain.
Ok I stand corrected here….
Xtreeme was correct they were the final US Tag Team champs.
Found it on Arion’s Wiki Page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andres_Labrakis
According to that they also tag teamed in a Texas Death Match.
” I even went back through the RDM archives”
Exactly, all 7 of you do is high five each other after a comment and go happy go lucky on every article.. how can you find anything negative about the mets or reyes for that matter.. Who cares what’s written there? noone goes to that desert anyways so your point is garbage as usual…
This is where you always fail. When you don’t have any evidence to justify your statements you just throw insults to try and make your viewpoint correct but it just shows that your all agenda and no facts. No matter what the discussion is there will always be some yahoo saying something stupid but you know damn well the vast majority wanted Reyes signed and it was either Sandy’s fault for not signing him or the Mets couldn’t compete with the offer. Just go with the Sandy fault, it fits your agenda way better.
Hey I used to be on a coaching staff with someone like that who was the JV coach and I was a Varsity assistant. He really was a great guy but he didn’t really have a clue about the game or what he was talking about and anytime he didn’t know what he was doing he would just try to cover it up by yelling a lot.
Oh well.
1,450+ registered users
6,500+ post in the last 3 years
150,000+ comments not counting the season we were on Disqus.
Still going strong, thanks for asking.
the 7 of you must be bored and pretty lonely then to spend most of your time here then
Nah, we have this amazing ability to multitask while actually not doing our actual jobs. See right now I am having this pointless conversation with you while I am also having a conversation about the difference in FA negotiations and extension conversations. Shocking… I know.
And we wonder why kids don’t know a thing about History! LOL
For the people that wanted Reyes to stay, people took two sides, Either Sandy blew it, or Reyes wanted out and good for him. For the people that didn’t think it was worth signing him, they were very happy that Sandy made the “tough decision”. I don’t think the Reyes hate came out until afterwards when the money we saved on Reyes wasn’t used to improve other areas of the team and people need to justify that moving him was still a good decision.
All of you are missing the point. Sandy could have signed Reyes or traded Reyes but he did neither. He should have traded him at ST 2011 after he showed he was injury free or resigned him then. He got next to nothing for him and there lays SA’s incompetence at least on that issue. Remember SA said he wanted to evaluate Reyes as SA was just hired then.
Judging by this if there was ever a time I wanted Jeff Wilpon involved it’s NOW.
It will be the best move for this organization going forward. Keep it up Jeff, stand your ground!
Reports also have said he wants to top santana’s contract with the mets, so he’ll be making $16 Million this year, so his ego is telling him to get $125 million to top santana’s franchise high $137… Book it here, THAT’S exactly what he wants, even if it’s 7 years, he wants to feed his ego into saying I’m the highest paid met of all time.. Ego and greed = David Allen Wright.
Anybody defusing this is just stuoid…. I said it here first, y’all can quote me on this.
With some of us this is the best light the Wilpons have been in a long time. That contract would cripple the team in the years to come handcuffing them from being able to add other major leaguers that can contribute and make the Mets better this season to start.
I will toast Jeff Wilpon if he causes Wright to leave and for anybody who believes the Mets best way to move forward is let go of the past and use him as trade bait and get other talent back should be happy to hear this.
$106M for Reyes is an absurd contract; plain and simple. Reyes flat out told Loria he would sign for the most money, even $1 more. He just wanted Miami to be the top bid. This what Reyes was all about…plain and simple. He didnt hide the fact that he wanted money and he took the most where he wanted to be. So be it.
Wright is in the same position. Players do offer hometown discount ala Weaver and the Angels. Wright is not one of them. He says it isnt about the money but it is. Wright might not be saying it but his actions are. Not that he can be faulted for it any more than Reyes, but that is what is taking place. Will he budge, only time will tell.
As for Wilpon, I am glad he isnt going over the edge and paying through the nose for Wright. Overpayment is what put the Mets in this situation (at least one of them). Wright has been a good player for the Mets, but he isnt great. Fred was correct; Wright is not a superstar. And the Mets had collapse after collapse after collapse with Wright there all years. Too many people overlook that fact. Stats are one thing…winning something completely different.
Yeah so absurd someone actually traded for him right?
No actually another team traded for a package that included him.
Yeah and that awful contract was the sugar used to swallow the other contracts…
Really kid your not helping your case at all here.
Yes, meaning the remaining 96 million did not scare off Toronto, the way it does Met fans.
Also it was reported that Boston tried trading for Jose Reyes as well
Most of the Met fans that dont like Reyes want him to fail and would hate to see Reyes simply remaining healthy and having a good career, living up to his contract…
Nothing worse than having to eat crow
“$106M for Reyes is an absurd contract; plain and simple. Reyes flat out told Loria he would sign for the most money, even $1 more. He just wanted Miami to be the top bid. This what Reyes was all about…plain and simple”
Yes, because Jeff Loria always tells the truth
And 106 mil for Reyes is far from absurd…he was 28 years old when he signed the contract…he will be 34 when it ends….his hamstrings held up better at age 29 than Tejada’s did at age 22….you cant predict what is going to happen..All I know is that Reyes bashers are patiently waiting for him to slip up so they can justify their stance on that contract…
Money has almost nothing to do with why they should keep/trade Wright. The Mets can well afford him. Its the talent deficit they have organization wide at CF, C, SS, LF, RF that trading Wright can help out with that is the issue.
If trading Wright can help out with 2 of those issues…and trading either Niese or Dickey can help out with 2 more of those issues…the mets will go along way towards consistent success
Although I HATE the BRAVES, they should be our model for success.
In 1997, after reaching the WS AGAIN, the braves traded David Justice and Marquiss Grissom to the Indians for Kenny Lofton
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1997/03/26/oth_205890.shtml
David Justice was to the Braves what David Wright was to the Mets x 10
In 1997, the Braves ( MINUS David Justice ) go to the NLCS with Kenny Lofton, who hit .331 in 1997
In 1998, the Indians resigned Kenny Lofton
In 1998, the Braves replaced Lofton with Andruw Jones
The Braves replaced Javy Lopez with Brian McCann
You restock from within when it is BEST for your team
If trading Wright means you can get 3 young players at 450K for the next 4 years that produce at a high quality clip…allowing you to save that money and sign a King Felix, you make that move
Even if the Mets don’t get King Felix (and I don’t think this Front Office would do that unfortunately) the possibilities that open up are endless. Wright’s contract is a potential HUGE albatross that will keep this organization in stagnation for years do come and would kill all the exciting possibilities open to the Mets this off season.
I like Joe D’s suggestion of Michael Bourn and depending how much he would cost you still have more money to improve other areas. Either way the there’s so much a good GM can do if Wright is move but somehow I’m afraid this disgraceful Front Office would still leave Mets fans in the dark even if Wright is moved. I would actually be shocked if this front office used common sense and used the excess cash to actually try and compete this year.
They would try for King Felix ( but for all the wrong reasons )
We see wins…
they see fans being convinced they are trying to get wins
BAyonne, the mets will not compete with wright anyways… this year is the year they should tell the fans we’re rebuilding obviously, we know it, we see it, but as fans i am sure we’d be more understanding if they come out and say it instead of trying to take us for idiots. Only the SRT and JesseP’s of the world see this FO as a good FO, if they move wright now instead of strapping themselves financially with that overrated choker for years to come i am sure we’d be better off. It’s all about pitching, we have Harvey and Niese ready, Wheeler coming up along with other studs we got in the minors, by the end of 2013 we’ll be able to see in which areas to spend or to trade for that will allow us to do that without having to mortgage the future.
The Mets chances for competing for the post season are actually better if Wright is traded. The only thing that scares me is this front office will absolutely TANK and blow the opportunity. Another normal GM would take advantage, make some solid moves in the name of winning and try and compete NOW.
“the mets will not compete with wright anyways”
And they most certainly won’t compete without him then.
Your not going to get something that FILLS a position just two or three guys who won’t even do the little bit and not enough you think Wright does now!
As long as they can get major league ready talent that a guy like Wright should be able to net than they can compete. But if they ONLY get prospects for Wright then you’re correct and they won’t compete because you’re losing a good bat and not replacing it. The only way to make losing Wright work is to get at the very least one solid major league ready player or star in the deal.
or sign one or two starting players with the money saved by not signing Wright.
Or just keep him and spend another 10-15 million on a power RHH OF that could make us competitive if not next year the year after that if and when Wheeler gets into the rotation to replace Santana who will come off the books.
Trade Wright for multiples and it’s those guys who we will be saying need to be replaced for even MORE reason than we have for not wanting to keep Wright.
I get it that you guys think Wright is not the solution but then again he also isn’t the problem.
And trading him is not really going to solve that problem it’s just going to change the names (and if your lucky) the position you say you need to upgrade two years from now.
Keep Wright, Bitye the Financial bullet and sign a credible RH Power Threat to play the OF and you get short term a slight boost in attendance to help pay for it, a year from now get 25 Mil off the books to spend when Santana leaves and Wheeler takes over and that can be used to find a good CF or LF if we still feel Duda and some combo of DenDekker/Kirk can’t cut it in Center.
Thats a two year path to competing….
Trade Wright your extending that to 4 or 5 and worst case scenario 10!
That’s a fair point, but it’s not enough to just say “keep him” (nor is it enough to just say “trade him”). What’s the contract you’d offer? If Wright demands 7/$150 mil, that’s ok with you? On the other hand, I’d agree that it wouldn’t be smart to trade him if even the best package doesn’t include viable major leaguers. But that’s why it’s silly to take a firm stand on either side of the debate without knowing what’s been offered to whom.
” But that’s why it’s silly to take a firm stand on either side of the debate without knowing what’s been offered to whom.”
DING, DING, DING
He hasn’t even come close to asking for 20+Mil per season.
The hold up isn’t even the Money per year it’s the duration. Wright wants that extra year (as I suggested he would when he claimed he wanted to retire a MET) and that year is probably at the same rate of the first 7.
It’s probably around 18 Mil per, for an annual All Star guy YES thats worth it!
Keeps fannies in the seats for at least the next 6 years, gives the roster some stability so that Maybe Wright can feel he IS the leader everyone wants to be but he has been hesitant to take on due to other higher paid/More Experienced/Better players being here.
And stability in the Infield can not be underestimated.
Will he be worth that money in the last 3 years of the contract? Well ask youself the way things are going will 18 Mil still be considered a big contract 6 years from now? Or will guys like Jason Werth be getting 20 Mil deals for even less production than Wright gives now?
Salaries never go down they always go up and 18 Mil this year may seem like a lot but 5-6 years from now that could be a damn steal!
So yes I would give him what he wants but I do think you 7 year 150 Mil deal is not even close to what he is asking for.
150M at 8 Years is much closer to reality here which translates to just 18.75M per year.
Look at what guys like Pujols, Fielder and Santana get and thats a bargain.
He won’t hit HRs like those guys do but he is younger AND can hit for average which is all you should be asking from a player in the first place.
Here is the thing you guys seem to ignore…the MONEY you can spend is only limited by your ability to draw!
We are hardly at revenue saturation point like the Yankees may be right now.
So get guys who contribute and can draw and you won’t have to worry about the few bad contracts just as the Yankees didn’t have to worry when they had bad contracts like Burnett and trading him off for kids when they really had no use for him anymore.
That ringing in your ar sems to be confusing you TRS….
Since you don’t know what the offer is either there is no reason to believe he wants too much wich works for BOTH sides!
By all accounts the request is for the area of 18M per season and the hold up is Wright wants 8 years (as I said he would insist on months ago) and the team only wants to commit to 7.
If your willing to tyake him at that rate for 7 what the hell is the problem with the 8?
If your concerned about 18 Mil 8 years from now you got bigger problems than what Wright is going to make!
Maybe if they stopped worrying about MONEY and started worrying about the baseball on the field the 18M wouldn’t be all that important a near decade from now!
I just want to see where your line is. I don’t disagree that signing him may be the best option, depending on the terms. You said you’re ok with $144 million (8 years at $18 per), but got real agitated when I threw out $150 million, then told me to not worry about money. I suggest you take your own advice. If $144 mil is ok, then why not $150?
In reply to X
18 Mil per seems to be a fair rate for him.
And I always expected him to look for 8 since it was a goal to retire as a met.
Would it be better for the Mets to get a 6 or 7 year deal? SURE but it is not going to happen. Without a guarantee he will retire as a Met or play the majority of his career here he might as well test Free Agency and see how much money he can make if all he is going to get is a 5 or 6 year deal.
8 years takes him to 38 and right around the time he should be at least thinking about retiring.
.290+ batter, 20+ HRs 100 RBIs is worth 18 Mil per year.
Do you really think that your going to get better than Wright in return?
If not what have you accomplished but spread Wright’s production over TWO positions and Roster spots gaining nothing and losing a position and roster spot to get MORE to add to Wright?
Mets in 2013-2019 with Wright = not competing
Mets in 2013 without Wright = not competing
Mets in 2014-2019 without Wright = competing
Hopefully this simplifies things for you
If we trade Wright to Toronto for Anthony Gose, Travis D’Anard, and Kyle Drabek….we get a legit CF prospect, a legit C prospect and a young controllable SP with top talent
When/If Santana proves healthy, we can trade ( and pay his entire remaining salary ) to a contender for another b-level prospect
If we resign Dickey, then great…
If not….trade Dickey + Duda + Murphy + Valdespin + Mejia to Tex for Olt and Jurickson Profur ( u know you have to give up talent to get talent )
Texas gets their 1B and Dickey at a cheap rate, enough so they can afford a CF replacement for Josh
Mets get their new young right side of the infield…
Mets move Tejada to 2B….
New Met infield, all under age 26
C – Travis ( 23 )
1B – Davis ( 25 )
2B – Tejada ( 22 )
SS – Profur ( 20 )
3B – Olt ( 23 )
LF – Hairston ( 33 )
CF – Torres ( 103 )
RF – Kirk ( 26 )
Yeah Reyes is worth $100M+ that is why so many teams were bidding on him. Here is a clue, if a team is $20M more than any other team is willing to spend, then it is safe to presume it is an absurd contract.
Kind of what the Mets did in the past. Bay comes to mind.
OHH WoW I get to use their own excuse against them now….
How do you know what he was offered and not?
How do you know some other team wasn’t ready to pay him that when we know two other teams contacted him about a visit which made Miami Up the offer from 100M to 106M Take it or Leave it?
Funny how the lack of evidence parlay cuts both ways doesn’t it?
Maybe we should stop using it from now on, if you don’t know the facts then your argument is no better than the counter you are arguing against by using it!
Clearly if the NY Post says a “source” claims Wright is not happy with contract it MUST be true.
It’s like Christmas today for some of the “haters” – lolol
Too easy
And clearly anything that praises Sandy in the press is the gods honest and undisputable truth right?
Thats how it works?
Would it matter, you’ll make assumptions and speak on behalf of people, despite them saying otherwise, and try and pass it off as gospel. You make up lies and swear to them.
Sandy got shafted in the Angel Pagan trade = LIE
No, it would be Christmas for real fans who like to win and put team first ahead of dimples. If the front office does the right thing this would be the opportunity for the Mets to move forward and leave the symbols of the collapse behind. There would FINALLY be a silver lining in the clouds if they tell this guy to take a hike. Let him choke in big spots for somebody else although he may be a right fit for a small…………….correction….ANOTHER small market team, lol
Real fans have never mentioned dimples, you and your buddies seem to be the only ones obsessed with his dimples and looks and mention it so frequently, nice empty argument.
Do you ever you ever get tired of repeating the same thing 398 times a day? Talk about choke……..
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I wonder had the post said DW is happy with his contract i wonder what his legion of fans would’ve said? But since the POST reporting what is most likely truth then of course, it’s the POST so we should take this report with a grain of salt.. LOL, it’s getting really sad..
‘I wonder had the post said DW is happy with his contract i wonder what his legion of fans would’ve said?’
I’d say that depends on what that contract parameters turned out to be?
Is it reasonable? Is it ridiculous? Will it most certainly turn out to be an albatross?
If/when he signs, let’s see just how expensive in years/dollars it is.
( Link ) Mets should’ve kept Reyes over Wright
http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7852807/new-york-mets-kept-jose-reyes-david-wright
Now after you read the whole article…read the reaction from angry Met fans…
Damaja, I never seen it as an either or situation. When framed this way, I’d say Wrights power, what it is, was more needed than Reyes’ speed. I miss Jose he was my favorite player; however, Tejada has been able to fill the position admirably. If Wright is traded than I suppose Murph will fill in until Flores is ready and that may go either way but we will have to find some power somewhere. This team was starved for run producers last year and that need hasn’t gone away.
“This…might be the most ridiculous article I have ever read.”
“O’Connor is a hack. If Reyes was here he’s write stories about how he wasn’t a winning player. I enjoyed watching Reyes but I think he might be a guy that looks better on paper. Looking back I don’t think Alderson had much interest in bringing Reyes back. He’s hurt a LOT, he steals a lot of bases but his OBP for career was never very impressive. He rarely steals late in games when getting into scoring position is really important. Tejada will never put up the numbers that Reyes does but he’s smart player. He rarely tries to do too much whereas I always felt that Reyes was more interested in making a flashy play than he was in making the safe play. Reyes was fun to watch but I honestly think they might be a better TEAM without him.”
“You should quit, O’ Connor.”
“lol yeah better off building around a player who only plays half a season for the past 3-4 years. Sounds like a diamond prize!”
From the first page of comments. They don’t sound too angry to me. If you have to cite an Ian O’Connor article to support your point, then you’re on thin ice.
No Hatred towards Jose?
“yeah better off building around a player who only plays half a season for the past 3-4 years. Sounds like a diamond prize!”
“The boos are deserved for Jose Reyes. Reyes publicly refused to negotiate all of last season when the Mets were willing. He publicly campaigned for a huge salary, and never told the Mets what he was willing to take to stay. Tthe Mets correctly read the market and refused to grossly overpay for a fragile star. Kudos to the Mets. ”
” Of course if Reyes is having a good year in one of those 80 game seasons, he will probably get just enough at bats to qualify for a batting title and then sit out the rest of the season. The guy quit on his team last year to pursue an individual award”
AND THE FUNNIEST ONE
“Another thing O’Connor doens’t realize is, Mets go to Wright and tell him we can only give you this many years with this amount of money with options and incentives, Wright most likely takes the deal because he loves NY and the Mets. Give that same option to Reyes and Reyes and his agent come up with an excuse to say the Mets didn’t want him…. Tell it like it is O’Connor!”
Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha
I thought you were saying Mets fans were angry at the Mets for not keeping Reyes. I was saying based on the article comments, that was not the case.
Of course there was anger toward Reyes. There is towards almost every free agent home grown player who leaves his team for the most money — and especially when they go to what is perceived as an inferior team. Even in St. Louis there were some negative comments about Pujols after he left. And he was a much better player for St. Louis than Reyes was for the Mets.
“There is towards almost every free agent home grown player who leaves ”
The problem is the anger towards Reyes started long before he left!
Did it? Exactly when did it start? And is it any different from the knocks Pujols got while he was negotiating with the Cards … or the knocks Wright gets even now???
I really didn’t see that. There are always going to be some fans who don’t like some players. I think most Mets fans wanted Reyes to stay right up till he signed with the Marlins.
Started when he got injured in 2009….
Quieted down until he got hurt in 2011 when people started trashing him because the Injury meant they could no longer get rid of him…
Then he took himself out of a meaningless game, You should have heard the whining and trashing that day….
And many would not have signed Reyes to even a 100M contract.
He wasn’t greedy he got paid what a Batting champ gets thats all
Anyone who complains he is greedy is just pissed he wouldn’t play for peanuts and most of them really didn’t want him to stay for any price…
SOmething about PURGING the memory of 2007-2010
All dumb reactionary reasoning but thats what they did!
There is always going to be a lot of knocks against players who have extensive injury histories — especially players that take a long time to heal. But it was by no means unanimous.
I believe most polls on Metsblog had fans wanting Reyes to stay by a huge majority. He was way more liked than he was criticized by Mets fans.
Was he worth $100 million? Personally, I don’t think so. Who said just because you win one batting title you are suddenly worth $100 million? It would be different if his career BA were high. But it wasn’t.
Reyes over-priced himself for the Mets. He’d still be here, however, if it weren’t for the crazy antics of Loria.
Since when is a career .291 Hitter considered not a High BA player?
In what universe?
A 4 time All Star….
The team Leader in RS Every year after 2004 except 2009 when he got hurt…
Thats not worth 100 Mil?
If thats what you think then you don’t think ANY player is worth more it…
Which means enjoy Watching the Hairstons and Ramirez’ the rest of your Met life.
Guess Wright isn’t worth it either right?
“High” is all relative. A .291 BA is considered good but not anything special in and of itself. It’s rare that a .291 hitter will get a contract over $100 million unless he also brings a lot of power to the table. And don’t mention Crawford. One bad contract does not justify another.
I’m not sure where you got the idea I think no player is worth $100 million. That’s simply not true. It all depends on their OBP, power, injury history and defense, and intangibles. And I do think Wright is worth $100 million.
“A .291 BA is considered good but not anything special in and of itself”
hahahaha ok now I know what I’m dealing with….POOF goes your credibility!
Only 26 out of 1280 Roster spots hit over .300!
SO whatever your smoking send some this way….
I personally think the day that Sandy has to take orders from Jeff Wilpon will be the day he resigns altogether. I don’t see a man of Sandy’s stature needing to be subservant to the father’s son whose idea of baseball created the original citi field circus dimensions and walls which made a mockery of the game.
I think Alderson knows this one (Wright) is out of his hands. He was clear that he doesnt like huge 2nd contracts because they rarely work out. The fact that the offer is even 6 years at $110M shows that the Wilpons are driving this bus. Wright is a .300/20/90-100 guy….that isnt worth $20M a year. Yet that is basically where the Mets are going to end up with him if he gets an extension. I think Alderson would prefer to trade Wright and get a couple players who could make that production up and then some.
you’re so full of it, it makes me sick.
Yeah right, any move that puts Sandy in a bad light is due to the Wilpons and any move that put Omar in a bad light was due to Omar.
You’re so full of garbage it’s not funny.
At what point will you accept that the Wright negotiations are out of Sandy’s hands? What has to be presented besides everything that’s already known?
Who is meeting with Wrights agent? Sandy or Wilpon?
Then tell me how it’s not in his hands….
Truth is if he isn’t caling the shots why is he here at all?
Just like your knowledge of Hostess I guess I have to straighten you out.
To start, how is a deal with Wright going to be cast in a bad light since half, if not more, of the fan base wants that. It will only come to light years down the road. Thus you are incorrect in your assessment.
Secondly, how can you say this is Alderson’s deal. Articles are already stating that Wilpon is involved as are most owners when $100M+ is involved. Also, Alderson is on record as saying he doesnt like to give 2nd big contracts since they never rarely work out. His history shows then hence one of the reasons Reyes is gone.
Thirdly, it was Wilpon (Jeff) who mentioned Wright a couple of weeks ago as Ambassador. That is another example of where the Wilpon’s thinking is.
When it comes to Wright, it is the Wilpons show. I realize you cant understand these points about baseball. Perhaps you would be better off on a Yankee board. I think their level of baseball intelligence matches yours. I understand it is easy for people like you to get lost after the “spend more money” mantra.
.
Agree. However, to a large extent almost all GMs are going to take their cues from ownership when it comes to a contract this big. The idea that ownership should be removed from a decision this big is ludicrous. It doesn’t work that way.
Actually if the GM thinks the signing is good it is really his job to convince the owner to let it happen….
Now he can’t overrule the Owner but his job is to put the best team on the field and if the owner is stopping him from doing that why would he stay and hurt his reputation?
The problem here is it’s the Wilpon’s who want to sign Wright but Sandy probably does not and he is probably whispering to Wilpon “Too Much, Too Much” and thats why there is a stalemate.
If it was the Wilpons saying that and the reverse were true then Sandy would have already said to them “Trust Me it’s worth doing” and he would have been signed by now.
Sandy isn’t sold on keeping him and has never liked contracts like this, so he isn’t going to tell Jeff this is the right move and this is where we are at because of it.
Actually the wilpons dont always agree…
the large dimensions = fred’s idea, jeff was against it
Willie Randolph – Jeff was against it, wanted Manny Acta
Hiring Wally Backman = Jeff’s idea
And who got thier way in each of those decisions….
The Dimensions are STILL large even with the fences moved in.
well eventually Jeff gets to say “I told you so”
and the dimensions are pretty fair now. this will never ( and should never ) be a band-box
I still don’t think SA will be here long enough to get bent out of shape about Jeff, or anyone else.
I’ll be very surprised if he gets a contract extension.
Let Bayonne be. He gets psychotic when the Sandy vs. Wilpon debate gets going. Theres no convincing the naive. The truth could be standing right in front of him and he’d tell it to go f#.c.k itself.
I Can’t wait for the day this team is sold…I may be an old man by then but I swear I will outlive all the Wilpons who own this team just so I can enjoy a Mets winning season again. By winning season I mean Championship season.
“It appears that by the way Jeff Wilpon phrased everything, that GM Sandy Alderson has little say in the matter, and that he’s the one pulling all the strings. He never even mentioned Sandy.”
Hojo, according to Adam Rubin’s blog, Wilpon actually did mention Sandy: “”Or Sandy [Alderson] could decide that, gee, we trade one or both of them. That’s not where we’re at. Right now the process is ongoing. And I think that’s the best way to characterize it.”
I think Alderson is making all the baseball related decisions. It’s just that when it comes to contracts this big, he has to get approval from ownership when it comes to the money part. This is the way it works on almost every club. Except that with the Yankees, their owners occasionally do make both the financial and baseball decisions (Soriano, A-Rod).
Of course, any large contract the owner naturally has to give his okay and that being said this negotiation sounds par for the course. The decision to go after Wright is probably Sandy’s and naturally the owner has to sign off on any contract.
Just because i’m of the belief that owners generally hire GMs to make the baseball decisions doesn’t mean i’m naive enough to think that the owner is not going to get involved in negotiations. That’s no surprise at all.
It’s when zonked out people like Gregg who think “Jeff Wilpon has his hands on this entire roster” that it starts to take on weird conspiracy theory levels. Whatever Alderson did not inherit in this roster – is HIS call. Not the Wilpons. Big contracts? Another story. The owner overseeing that is just business as usual.
Oh yeah. Alderson is making most of the baseball decisions and the Wilpons only get involved heavily when it comes to the big money aspects. That’s how it works for almost all teams. As I said, there are exceptions like when the Steinbrenners go ahead and sign or extend players like Sheffield, Soriano and A-Rod against the GM’s wishes. Loria is probably also a micro-manager. But I would think Alderson would quit if the Wilpons tried to run the baseball side of things. It’s not like he needs the job. He’s been in baseball long enough.
Dont you think Sandy already knows what he can offer to Wright. I assume he talked this through with the Wilpons over and over and over.
It’s probably a moving target. The issue isn’t just what they can offer for 2012, but the overall dollars and how the contract is structured. They probably have a ceiling in their mind, but it’s not firm. Then there are options, bonus clauses, and other variables.
2013
Don’t you think the guy who is in charge of building the team and supposed to know something about baseball (if we are to believe the hype) should decide what a player is worth better than some guy who couldn’t get a job anywhere but from daddy?
well he might be… but the wilpons are his bosses. they decide what goes. they can stick their nose in everything if they really want to. It seems like they’re not letting Sandy do anything, so we have no idea if Sandy knows how to organize a team or not.
It’s funny how the Sandy lovers are all fawning over Jeff acting all authoratative as if we have never seen him pretend he is running this team before….
tell ya what,
if Jeff Wilpon DID happen to step in and make baseball decisions it might actually be a GOOD thing considering the horrific job Alderson is doing. I would actually prefer it.
i have been a met fan for over 40 years ,2 world series wins,in 69 it was the pitching and great defense,in 86 a combination of both,im am a huge wright and reyes fan but its time we part ways age is not reversable,these mets need to get multiple good young outfielders and a catcher that can hit and field, enough of the we will try to make you a outfielder/duda can not field /trade to american league/ ;,a second baseman,murphy trade for a real infielder/,wright will need to go unless he takes less than 4 years,do you really want to see him playing on crutchers,he can net us some good young prospects,we are not winning next year why would you give in to his demands,he is a very solid player but no superstar by any means,pitchers do not fear him like they feared strawberry,delgado,beltran,carter and piazza,we have too many holes to fill wright and dickey must be traded the time of a championship for the mets and wright with reyes has passed,we must trade them for top prospects and let a new invigorated young team come of age.
I still think you’re a bit off. There was a tag team champion in the WWWF as far back as the late fifties, I think, when they were part of the NWA. It was called the US championship and not the World championship because the territories, each of which had their own recognized tag champs, never defended the belts outside the territory. When the WWWF left the NWA, they kept the name US on the belt but it was recognized as their tag team championship. You’re just arguing semantics. I never said Arion and Bruno (or Parisi) were “world” champs, I said they were WWWF champs. Which they were. You’re arguing semantics that the belts weren’t a world championship and I never said they were. I said they were the WWWF tag team champs, which they definitely were. I thought if maybe baseball wasn’t the topic of conversation between us, we’d find common ground and you’d act like a grown man for once. Shame on me. It’s staggering the lengths you’ll go to try desperately to not be wrong. I’m going back to baseball discussions. Say what you will.
This is what you said:
“I remember Arion and Bruno were the tag team champions. That’s why the heat was so great, because they used to be friends.”
You didn’t differentiate and i’m not playing semantics. I’m just providing for the reader the exact details, that’s all.
All i’m doing is clarifying it because the regular reader would look at that statement and think you meant they were WWF tag team champions and they were not. That started in 1971. Before that it was called US tag team champs and before that i do not know.
I know my classic pro-wrestling and was just clarifying it that’s all.
oh and not only that, and this is off the top of my head. The US tag-team championship was not the only tag team title in the region before the official WWWF/WWF/WWE tag title as we know it today started in 1971 with Tyler & Graham.
There was also an International Tag Team Championship title too that was held by The Mongols about the same time Ivan Koloff defeated Sammartino for the title in 1970. And get this, BOTH champs were managed by Lou Albano! They were Beppo & Geeto Mongol and Beppo would later become Nicolai Volkoff.
That’s why i’m particular about explaining the differences.
You guys are now seriously arguing about WWF?
You fellas need a drink and a lady stat.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You think??
WWF. Too much.
Anybody remember the times way back a long ago when if our teams weren’t good, we still enjoyed watching them in order to root for our favorite, productive players?
Know that was in the day of the reserve clause but again, that consideration regarding the re-signing David and R.A. (if the players were amiable to it) has to enter the conversation. Neither player is going to hinder a re-building plan (if there really is a planned effort and not just a hope that enough kids work out over the years) and we as fans still have our favorites wearing our favorite uniforms.
Now, if the Mets were on the verge of becoming a contender, even trading a fan favorite would be acceptable; but since we are not, why not try to give us something to still root for? Neither David or R.A. were responsible for our dismal seasons (as were the lack of supporting players in the outfield, bullpen and on the bench) but at least they gave us bright spots in which we had fun with. Imagine going through some seasons like that without them?
I’m reluctant to believe this is a serious option being considered by the owners and front office due to their take on how best to get themselves out of financial hole they are in, but as a fan, both David and R.A. being a Met is something uniquely special beyond just being good players. They are not yet over the hill and are indeed a part of our fabric.
Mr. Fred and Jeff, we understand from a business standpoint that you will have to give us years of inferiority for your own long-term interests and before the Madoff scandal money was no object in order to bring home a winner and we appreciate that. However, you still kept ticket prices affordable with nose-bleed seats so most all families could still have a fun day at the park. But that all changed with Citi Field with the indifference that led to out-pricing those from the nose-bleed seats. If your regard for those fans hadn’t dissipated, then the support of the fans during these times wouldn’t necessarily have, either.
That’s why it’s in your own interests to try and re-sign both players. You don’t need to put yourselves in a further worse position with many of the fan base as you already are.
Hi Joey
Just imagine you live in a college football town or a AAA affiliate baseball team. Players literally come and go. The Curt Food reserve clause ended a core group of players as we are now in a revolving door of FA and salary trade dumps. Today if you root for a home grown player he very well could be gone. You are asking ownership to appease the fans at the cost of a competive product on the field. What you should be saying is that DW and Dickey are still productive and ownership should have the means to surround them with the necessary talent to compete. A 135M payroll with ALL productive players would do it. But we have to face reality the choice is stay status quo or rebuild with a 100M payroll which still includes Bay and Santana. This makes it a defacto 60M payroll for 2013. Again the NL East is a tough competitive division. Do not go to bed with a fan favorite only to be jilted or not feeling fulfilled and satisfied. That is the problem which I will call a fatal or flawed attraction. Baseball today is not what it was yesterday.
Hi Hotstreak,
Don’t forget the middle ground – being able to rebuild while R.A. and David play out their years in a Met uniform – if that’s what they desire. But as mentioned, the owners and front office don’t see it being in their best financial interests to keep either one, though I do not understand how the even more loss of revenue caused by further decreased attendance would not hurt them in terms of finances even more unless they feel nobody is going to show up with or without both players in either case.
Though I really enjoyed Henderson, Zachary and Flynn, they did not figure directly in the rebuilding that eventually put us back on top. Because Sandy is not going to look for highly priced quantity in return (since the priority is payroll reduction) the same could hold true with whoever we get in a trade. On the other hand, we know the long-term damage that was caused by sending away Tom Seaver. That is also something the Wilpons should consider, for their own long-term interests.
Sandy said getting rid of the expensive contracts in 2011 would allow him to use that money in terms of flexibility in 2012. Well, we no longer have to worry about Beltran, Reyes, Castillo and Perez. Of course, most of us suspected two years ago that was BS and I think most everybody who didn’t so recognizes it as boulder-dash now.
That’s why I think trying their best to re-sign and keep both players would be of more benefit to their own interests because to do so would give many fans a reason to still stay connected.
Their cash-flow must really be bad if that is not the option they at least try to pursue.
As for myself, yes, my feelings are of a baseball past which we will never see the likes of again and for that we should all be sad. But that doesn’t mean we can’t have at least a small glimpse of a throwback era here or there. We need it. Remember, late last August and into September most of us who were in the shout box during a Met game weren’t even watching it (there was usually just one who was cuing us in). That shows how bad it’s come to.
Hi Joey:
If the Mets can be competitive with Wright and Dickey and have the financial ability to promote from within and obtain selective free agents for the next seven years I am all for it. I see you point of losing the fans. However ,SA being a so called moneyball guy going against his own philosophy would make me wonder what really is the plan. There will be growing pains. We will look like Atlanta in the late eighties with Dale Murphy or the Yankees in early/mid eighties with Don Mattingly. If that is what you want I respect that. I personally want a team like the Braves now with a good farm shystem who contend and obtain selective FA. They know when to let go of a guy like Mark Teixeira. There payroll is only about 120M tops I believe. They will not resign Michael Bourn. The blue print is there.
Hi Hotsteak,
I agree with you 100 percent on all the points you just made. That’s what I wish for the club too. I wouldn’t mind if we resemble the Braves of the late eighties with Dale Murphy as we also strive to be the franchise that during that same period was also planting the seeds for sprouting the consistency that it has seen now for two decades. Atlanta and St. Louis have proved that could be done without bankrupting both the roster payroll and the minor league system. I feel both these franchises should not be compared to the Don Mattingly-era Yankees for all the Boss did was to recklessly and unsuccessfully try to buy himself a championship with marquee players and that is not what I want for the Mets to do either.
What I do wish was that we retained the good players we had and made prudent signings and/or trades to compliment them but for that to have happened, Bernie Madoff would have had to be out of the picture (in fact, if Madoff had never been a source of revenue for them, the Wilpons might very well would not have had the capital to buy the Mets to begin with).
So at this point, we have been put into a position where we will have to experience those growing pains and nobody can predict what that child might turn out to be so those pains might be longer than we care to think of. But for the moment, they could be less painful with David and R.A. in the semblance of the Mets still having something special we as fans can hang on to and for the Wilpons too in the sense that it would avoid the further decline in attendance sending both of them off most certainly would cause.
I also think that if Sandy has any understanding of human factors at all he should recognize that Zack Wheeler could use the helping hand of a Dickey to get him through the pressure he is going to feel being caught in the middle of a fierce war between the pro and anti Sandy forces that even the GM has to be aware exists. I doubt there are enough neutrals out there at this point to offset both factions, anyway.
But I tpp would be shocked if Sandy does re-sign and retain both players for that indeed goes against the very foundation of his business principles.
Hi Joey,
Well said. Tough decisions which SA will be judged upon his tenure as GM with the Mets. Let’s hope the right decisions are made.
Thanks Hotstreak,
Enjoyed the well thought out points by you as well.
I’m hoping for the best and would indeed not mind at all eating crow if proven wrong.
Hi Joey ,
Nothing like good dialogue which I enjoy.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Hi Hotstreak,
Nothing like a good dialogue for those insomoniacs who can’t get to sleep at 2 in the morning, either LOL!
Fortunately, I am off for the rest of the week so can stay up late.
Hey, you too – a wonderful Thanksgiving for you and yours.
Now let’s try and get some sleep!
But thats just the point Hotstreak…
Spending and playing FA now doesn’t stop you or inhibit you from building your Minors and creating what it is you percieve the Braves did….
Moneyball will never sell here. No sales and no financial fix which means if and when you get all those kids you want to have you won’t be able to fill in around them with good players or go and get that ONE BAT/ARM that makes it all work like the Braves did with Maddux.
The myth is you have to not spend and only draft.
But you CAN do both!
And by doing so you solve BOTH the issue of a weak MiL system and Weak Finances.
Because the Fans will go to see those guys you bought until the kids are ready.
Cashen did that!
He also had 5 top 10 First rounders to work with.
Only hit on two which just goes to show you how hard building what you want really is unless your very good, very lucky and somehow find the way to sign everyone you bothered to draft.
Sandy is never going to get you what you want.
He is going to give us Moneyball and pay more attention to the Financial Stat sheet than the baseball metrics.
Just look at what he has done so far he has brought in more 30 Year olds than kids.
reyes, Beltran and K-Rod gone and the only kid of worth he has to show for it is Wheeler.