If The Mets Trade R.A. Dickey, Who Becomes The Team’s Ace?

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• kevin November 30, 2012 at 2:14 pm

  David Wright. They are paying him ace money and he’s going to be a captain. He can do it all.
• LA Mets Fan November 30, 2012 at 2:23 pm

  I totally disagree with you on Harvey. Harvey looked great, so did Gee when he first got called up. Harvey has only faced 6-7 teams and mostly once. He has an entire season of pitching to go before the thought of him being an ace is even entertained. His ceiling has never been anything more than a number two pitcher. And why would we want to place that pressure on him anyway? That’s what I think screwed up Mike Pelfrey’s head. Johan is getting paid $25 million and he will be the ace if necessary.
  • Mitch Petanick November 30, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    and when he hits the DL in May, who’s the ace then?
    • LA Mets Fan November 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm

      We’ll just have to deal with that when it happens,and the offseason is far from over. We don’t know what moves the Mets have yet to make. I’m sure if the Mets trade Dickey they will not be counting on what little depth we have. But in my opinion, that’s why Dickey will be with the Mets on Opening Day.
  • Sloatsburg Mets Fan November 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Agree on all points! I’m not sure that Pelfry was ever going to be an ace but the added pressure didn’t help.
• Mr North Jersey November 30, 2012 at 2:26 pm

  LoL, Hat tip to you Mitch on what probably is the most creative use of a prom for an analogy in baseball I will ever read.
• Mr North Jersey November 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm

  As far as your question I think barring injury it would be Santana and if he is injured then there is no one I would call an Ace. There would just be a determination that asks, who is the best choice to face the opposing team’s best starter?
• Just_Da_Damaja November 30, 2012 at 2:33 pm

  David Wright = Ace
  • Mitch Petanick November 30, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    David Wright is going to have to pitch and catch like in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlNjaNU1oYM
    • Jesus Guzman November 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm

      The Mets were idiots for signing Wright to that deal. We should have given Bugs Bunny that money. Hits lines drives so hard it kills men!

      All joking aside, am I the only one who thinks that Johan, if healthy, can actually be a good pitcher? Not great, not bad, but just good? Also, when Zack Wheeler comes up, why not stick Johan in the bullpen? It saves his arm and he has experience there before. It will strengthen up the bullpen and add much needed leadership to it as well.
• Lisa P. November 30, 2012 at 2:38 pm

  I think Dickey isn’t going anywhere. They will listen to offers, but in the end he’ll be extended. Like Wright, he has more value to the Mets than what they can get for him IMO.
• srt November 30, 2012 at 2:40 pm

  If Dickey is traded we might not have an ace next season.
  We’ll have our ‘#1′ pitcher but he might not be an ace. Not every team has one.
• Brandon Butler November 30, 2012 at 2:43 pm

  I don’t believe R.A. is going anywhere either. Like Wright, he is indebted to the Mets for all that they have done for him and I think they will agree to something. But for some reason he is traded, I think Johan needs to step up. At the same time though, maybe we should see how Niese handles the ace role. Harvey I think needs some time next season to get use to the ML level before I would even consider the thought of making him the ace of the rotation.
• juan November 30, 2012 at 2:55 pm

  The Mets not necessarily need an ace for next season, but they will need one for 2014 if they want to compete.
• kunym16 November 30, 2012 at 3:00 pm

  If Dickey is traded, which I feel will not happen, I think Neise becomes the team’s “Ace”. As good as Santana has been in the past and considering how much experience he has, I just don’t think that he should be named to staff’s Ace simply because he has been hurt a lot and hasn’t done anything lately (other than the no-hitter) to deserve earning that title. Neise has consistently gotten better and is coming off his best year. I think he has clearly earned that title if need be, but until Dickey is traded, R.A. is the Ace and Neise should be the Number 2.
• Angelo. November 30, 2012 at 3:14 pm

  No-han , Harvey, Niese, Pelfrey, Gee
• Tony November 30, 2012 at 5:15 pm

  SIGN DICKEY !!! You might as well take 20 games off the win column if you don’t .
• Nathan November 30, 2012 at 6:57 pm

  I’d have to say no way to claiming Harvey as an “ace” at this point. If Dickey is traded then Niese becomes the defacto ace; however, If Santana is healthy he would probably get the opening day nod.
• Metsie November 30, 2012 at 7:15 pm

  Harvey most definitly does NOT become the Ace…

  They will pretend Santana is the Ace but in fact Niese becomes the Ace of the Staff until Harvey proves he is here to stay.

  He had a great 2nd half but he has to finish an entire year with success in the MLB before he gets named Ace.
• Joey D. November 30, 2012 at 7:25 pm

  If the Mets trade R.A. they will lose whatever goodwill they got back by signing David. That is the public relations bit along with the reality that next year he is going to draw a few thousand more extra fans on the days he pitches, which is the financial consideration.

  But as far as the team, while we have a solid starting five (baring injury) it is a good one, not a great one and without R.A. we will then go back to having what many called in the past a bunch of number three starters but not one the team could count on to come through to prevent any extended losing streak (to say to “come through in the big game” would be extending the bounds of reasoning so let’s keep our expectations low .). In three years with more experience, quite certainly others could step in – and that is when R.A.’s contact extension would expire. Perfect timing.

  And before that, R.A. would certainly help in the development of that maturity by his own example on the mound and the veteran leadership he provides to his young rotation mates.

  So what we might be able to gain in return for R.A. might certainly not offset all that we would lose without him.
  • Just-Da-Damaja November 30, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    I’m sure the Indians lost alot of good will when they traded Bartolo Colon..
    • Joey D. November 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Hi Just,

      You jest, of course, comparing R.A. to that of a suspended cheater?

      The bond I refer to is that uniquely rare one that transcends performance to that of a personal connection between the player and fan based on mutual admiration, the giving of one’s self above and beyond the norm and the inspiration – however illogical it may sound – that Dickey serves as a symbol that each and every one of us can rise above the adversities that might discourage and thus overwhelm others into giving up.

      It doesn’t matter that the front office doesn’t see it in this manner as long as they recognize that it is in their own self-interest to exploit such a gold-mine.
      • Just-Da-Damaja November 30, 2012 at 10:10 pm

        The Indians traded their home-grown ace…who was already an All-star…already finished in the top 5 Cy Young vote 2x…in the middle of another Cy Young year going 10-4 ….

        yes, many years later it was revealed he used PED’s…but in 2002, when the trade occurred, I’m sure there were Indians fans who had some sort of bond with Colon…who was the ace during their run in the late 90′s.

        Fact is, life goes on and you get over it.

        I love Dickey, much more than Wright as he seems less like a politician and more like a person.

        But at some point Dickey is going to leave, it will either be when he has max value or no value.

        I doubt Dickey is going to retire here…

        Toronto needs a 1B…..and they a

        They have a bunch of catchers….

        If trading Dickey and Duda nets you Gose + Travis, you HAVE to make that move.

        If trading Dickey nets you a Wil Meyers, you HAVE to make that move, Wil Meyers may be part of a new core
      • This is stupid November 30, 2012 at 10:21 pm

        This is to Joey not just…

        Stop being so dramatic man. This effect is minor at best. If Dickey gets traded, everybody might be mad at first ( no matter who the mets get back), but they’ll change their mind and praise the deal as soon as the returned player starts making a difference in the standings. If the deal doesn’t work out, the Wilpons are completely screwed. Not in a good way. So as long as the mets act smart and trade Dickey for a consistently good major leaguer public relations and the attendance should be fine. or just make it simple and extend him.
        • Don November 30, 2012 at 11:32 pm

          Joey hit the nail on the head. Dickey for two more years not only means a possible 20 wins each year, but it keeps a fan favorite that means ticket sales. Most fans do have emotional ties to certain players. Murphy and Hairston are also fan favorites for the way they play the game.
          • Joey D. December 1, 2012 at 12:55 am

            Hi Just,

            Guess it just comes down to those who don’t share in what might appear for Don, myself and others as simple, old fashioned and granted, even naive sentimental feelings won’t understand where we are coming from. But judging from what I read not only here at MMO as well as on other websites and in conversations in general, there seem to be more that feel the same way we do.

            BTW – how many years did it take for fans to get over sending away Tom Seaver? It was then that Shea turned completely into a morgue (and for many, the thought of him with Cincinnati and Chicago still hurts,especially with both his no hitter and 300th win occurring when he was no longer the “franchise”).

            And if I recall, they had less than 10,000 fans for the 1980 home opener. That’s what I meant about the front office not realizing how much it has to lose financially not only with just the 20 or so games R.A. might be pitching at home but with the roll-off effect that might have. If this was a competitive ball team, maybe not, but with the way Sandy and his bosses had personally undermined the joy of two straight seasons starting off so unexpectedly promising and the low expectations we have for the next few years.

            And for those who talk about our poor showings the past few years, David and R.A. were not the reasons why we won only 77 and 74 games after being in the wildcard race through mid-season.
            • Nathan December 1, 2012 at 9:50 am

              I am unsure or unwilling to speak on behalf of most fans; however, I do see a trend in baseball to ignore children. So, as Joey’s considerations may be “dramatic” for us adults they could be quite real for the future fan base. I was just a kid when Straw left and I cried, how’s that for dramatic lol. I didn’t turn away from the Mets but I did buy a dodger hat. Dickey is a great story for children when that is coupled with his ability to speak and his personal courage he is someone that I don’t mind my children looking up too. This can be a hard find in sports these days. I see little reason for trading away such an ambassador to the little people when it is unbelievably doubtful we will get anything in return more valuable than him.
              • Joey D. December 1, 2012 at 12:38 pm

                Thanks Nathan,

                And besides being an ambassador for the children, he is also an ambassador for us adults who wish to hang on to some part of that childish past that is still in all of us which includes looking at baseball as a game with a passion for our favorite clubs instead of a business. If it has to come to that, I suspect many of us could then find other things to do to get away from the pressures and insanities of the real world for a few hours.

                In fact, it showed so last September when those of us in the shout box were chatting with each other with most watching something other than the Met game in progress.
            • Just_Da_Damaja December 1, 2012 at 12:55 pm

              Albert Pujols was THE franchise in St. Louis

              Ambassador for the team ? check
              Charitable? check
              Home grown ? check
              Grew up in Missouri ? check
              One of the best players in the history of the franchise? ( debatable )
              Did he win a ring for them? check ( twice )
              Did he win a MVP for them ? check ( twice )

              The team let him go…
              The teams best manager Tony LaRussa retires
              The teams pitching coach retires

              And magically they INCREASED their attendance.

              The reason why met fans didnt come after seaver was traded was because they SUCKED

              We are not 7 year old kids

              we dont come to see certain players

              we come to see WINNERS

              This is why the Cardinals had BETTER attendance in 2012

              They continued WINNING…had a playoff chase that lasted all the way to the NLCS

              Albert Pujols was to the Cardinals what Mariano is to the Yankees…what Seaver was to the Mets…

              THE MAN…with NO DEBATE

              Dickey, who i love, would be more valuable to us if he brought back Wil Meyers or a slew of prospects that we traded for Stanton

              Stanton is an absolute BEAST….

              The only downside with him is justifying how we keep Wright as the face of the franchise when he wouldnt even be the best player
              • Joey D. December 1, 2012 at 1:38 pm

                Hi Just,

                But you forget this is not St. Louis

                …… and that R. A. Dickey does things like climb Mount Kilimanjaro to raise awareness for the Bombay Teen Challenge, an organization that rescues and cares for women and girls in Mumbai who are at risk of being abused and exploited – despite the personal risk to injury ruining his career and future monetary possibilities and that Sandy Alderson reminded him that such injury would also void his contract which would affect him in the pocketbook immediately.

                Things like that mean a lot more to some people than others….
                • Metsie December 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm

                  JDDs problem is Dickey speaks much better and elegant English than Pujols….
                  • Just_Da_Damaja December 1, 2012 at 2:15 pm

                    RA has a 4 year English Lit degree from the University of Tennessee.

                    I think RA probably speaks English better than most English teachers

                    ( but Pujols graduated from a US high school, went to a US junior college and has been speaking pretty good english for 20 years )

                    Hopefully well enough for you to consider him an option at 1B

                    
                • Just_Da_Damaja December 1, 2012 at 2:11 pm

                  I’ve been a RA fan since 2010, you dont have to convince me…RA also went to Cuba and Venenzuela, slept on floors to deliver food and baseball supplies to kids back in 2008. RA is one of my favorite figures in all of sports.

                  My point is….

                  If RA Dickey stays here…and stinks up the joint…while Stanton and Myers go on to have productive careers…with RF remaining a rotating door….

                  all that stuff is out the window…

                  Hell Carlos Beltran was one of the most charitable mets of all times…

                  in 2008-2009, he went and visited veterans…without the team…
                  http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-11-17/local/17938810_1_veterans-day-heroes-post-traumatic-stress-disorder

                  he went and delivered food to poor folks….on his own…i lived in harlem across the street from a school that he went to

                  he was a big contributor for R.B.I.
                  http://www.amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/carlos-beltran-belts-rbis-for-charity-i-just-like-to-help-kids-1.2493187

                  he went and set up a school for kids in his hometown…on his own…

                  and yet met fans took NONE of that into consideration in 2010 when his performance suffered

                  and if RA Dickey puts up numbers like Oliver Perez….they will boo him after a while…

                  nothing personal

                  NY = results oriented town
                • Just_Da_Damaja December 1, 2012 at 2:17 pm

                  And you are right, this is not St. Louis..

                  In New York, all we care about is WINNING

                  St Louis folks actually gave Matt Holliday a standing ovation AFTER he dropped a fly ball that cost them a game in the playoffs

                  NY fans would travel back in time to kill Castillo’s mother if it meant avoiding that dropped pop-up in a meaningless season in August

                  NY = results oriented town
                  • Nathan December 1, 2012 at 4:16 pm

                    Your point on Beltran is correct although incomplete. I knew a couple people who were seriously upset after that trade. Not upset because it was a bad move for the team but upset because they’re favorite player was gone. As for the St. Louis aspect alot of people were glad to see TLR retire. Many grew tired of his ways and they were upset at Pujols for leaving but that was the difference. Pujols left he wasn’t traded. St. Louis made him a legit offer and he went to LA. So the fans while upset were not upset at the Cardinal team. Look I get what you are saying but I agree with Joey on this, if baseball becomes an extension of everyday troubles such as finance I’ll stop paying attention.
                  • Joey D. December 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm

                    Hi Nathan,

                    The problem is that indeed JDD is correct for most every point he made is indeed logical.

                    But that is also the problem – so many of us want an escape from logic for awhile. And the Mets were just the tonic we needed. Perhaps today’s marketing firms have concluded that total escape is not so important to many fans today. Or maybe it’s simply that in this day of free agency, long-term contracts, the more cynical nature of the times and – as Sandy put it – baseball decisions being less dependent upon lines of talent alone – fans are used to it and see the game as a form of entertainment with a different type of passion.

                    It’s seems the fans have indeed caught up to the players and see this more as a business and form of entertainment and look upon it with the same business-type attitude that the players do.

                    That’s sad but I think explains why many can look at David Wright as well as R.A. in terms of who we could get back for them and how that will better help the team three or four years from now instead. As said, they have probably caught up with the game as it is today where you, I and others might not. It’s an illusion we lived in, no doubt about that. Captain Pike had his illusion and Captain Kirk had his reality along with the sincere wishes that Kirk found his reality just as pleasurable.

                    And that is not meant to be humorous as it is to make the same point Gene Roddenberry wanted to get through to his viewing audience.
• Chicago Days November 30, 2012 at 7:43 pm

  We signed DW for life. Great. Good guy. But wait? Many here clamor to resign RA. Great Met. Great guy. But wait–where’d we finish in ’12? 4th place now for how many years?
  DW is with us for life. Fine. But we’re not to going to win with him or with RA with the rest of this team as it will likely be constituted in ’13. To me, 2013 is a throw-away year. The past 4 years have been that, but 2013 could be a throw-away year with a difference IF we add some talent to the team / system.
  We have to trade RA to get much-needed gaps in our team & system filled. And with DW signed for life, Flores is now a trade chip.
  KC is a match with a freaking great farm system over-flowing with talent. Let’s be proactive for a change and make a deal that helps both us and KC.
  Thinking small: RA + Mejia+ Fulmer + Thole + Flores for Myers, Perez, Zimmer, DeShields, Jr.
  Thinking big: Niese + RA + Fulmer + Thole + Flores for Perez, Cain, Myers, Odorizza, Zimmer, Ventura, DeShields, Jr., Bonafacio.
  i think KC would drool over the possibility of Niese: more years under contract than Lester, cheaper & younger.
  • Metsie December 1, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Once again the boneheaded logic that because we didn’t finish high with the FEW good players we had we should just scrap them because loosing with scrubs is more enjoyable….

    Isn’t it better to keep the good players and replace the scrubs that dragged us down in the standings?

    If you say no then you have no business acting like you know how to build a team.
• Mitch Petanick December 1, 2012 at 3:31 pm

  There’s no way Niese is the ace of this or any staff – he’s a solid pitcher, but not an ace.
  • Metsie December 1, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Yet in his first 5 years he has put up Similar or more impressive numbers than Lee or Halladay did thier first 5 years in the league….

    They all took thier ACE steps right around the 5 or 6 year mark.
    Maybe it takes 7 for Niese to do that…

    He has the arsenal to be one just needs to figure out how to use it.

    And as I said before ACE is all about who is around you in the rotation….
    On the Rockies Niese is the ACE of thier staff.

    So ACE is really a relative term when it comes right down to it…
    We had Pelfrey as our Ace one year…
• Christopher Masiello December 1, 2012 at 7:31 pm

  Thank God you didn’t say Johan. Let’s just eat his contract and move on.