Anybody listening to a conversation with Ralph Kiner, Keith Hernandez, Ron Darling and occasional guest star Tom Seaver would know exactly what we are talking about. For those who want to know more about the beauty of how the game is played and the strategic involved, those conversations are great learning tools. They might learn facts with statistics but no substance as to what those stats represent.

GMs look for GOOD players and GOOD player have good stats no matter how many equations and what type you run the numbers through!

A good hitter has a High BA…He also has a high OBP!
But a hitter can also have a high OBP but can’t hit a lick!

The Yankees don’t go after what the Sabers say to look for they go by what looks good under ANY philosophy and metric calculation you can use!

Good players have good stats and good stats translate to good sabers AND good traditionals!!

The teams who have the best players are the guys who look for GOOD PLAYERS not good SABERS!

And if your going to throw out half the leaders in a metric based on price your not even getting the best SABER player either!

Which is why Moneyball has never won a damn thing!

When it comes down to it, other than the obvious all-star quality player-types, the dependency on stats is analogous to an employer first reading one’s resume. If he or she likes what he reads he then has to go onto interview the candidate to get to know what the person is really like.

The saber stats, just like traditional ones, do not tell the entire story. That’s why the people involved in signings, trades, releases, etc. have to go on what they know about the player from what they have seen and learned about him by his exploits on the field.

Any professional baseball organization whose people rely heavily on stats to tell them about a player’s strengths and weakness really doesn’t know the game at all. With the older player one needs to know if it appears he is losing a bit with his wrists and bad speed, if there is a pattern with a pitcher’s change in velocity; is the younger player adapt to getting into bad habits or does he actually adapt well and has the mechanics to even improve upon his skill. Or is there something in a pitcher’s delivery that could cause him to be through at a younger age (like some feel might be the case with Strausberg and a few years back with KRod).

And what about the player whose lack of skill is compensated with the intelligent way he plays the game – Billy Martin comes to mind as such a player. And then, there are the intangibles one brings to the clubhouse. It’s not like the obvious things one finds when it comes to big names like Puljos or Fielder – in these cases the stats matter little to clubs that are actually pursuing them as it is how much and how long a contract the player is seeking, his age, etc. It’s more like the Glider, Ed Charles in 1969. I got a lot of sarcastic remarks about how a 35 year old who played in just 61 games and hit only .207 could be called an invaluable part of that team, however, it was obvious that those comments came from those who only read up about the 1969 and went by stats instead of actually having followed the team first hand. Ask any of the players – Tom Seaver, Koozman, etc. They will tell you that they couldn’t have won it without Charles for as young players, his veteran leadership, steady guidance and knowledge gained from HIS career-long experience helped THEM in THEIR playing performance which led to victories during the pressure of that division race though Ed’s name hardly appeared in the box score.

Stats – saber or traditional – are for quick reference, like a resume, but other than for the big names in their prime, they are superficial when it comes the supporting cast that is also a very valuable ingredient in what is still a team sport.

Those who know baseball hardly need stats to tell them what they already know and can perceive down the road about a player. Stats are fun for accumulating credentials and records but again, can anyone appreciate just looking at his stats at how important Billy Martin was to those Yankee teams of the early fifties? Stats don’t reveal the things one needs to know about a player and what he can give to a team – just like that resume.

and for the record, every team in baseball has some sort of advanced metrics they use for evaluating players. I don’t think anyone uses Bill James metrics as a bible…but they have figured out what they believe is important.

People get this confused, Sabermetrics has nothing to do with “money ball”…”money ball” used some metrics that other teams didn’t put a high of value on because money ball teams thought they could get bargain players.

The “flaskmaster” thinks this way:

- Blame the Wilpons while Sandy is the GM
- But he rips Omar and not the Wilpons when Omar was the GM

That’s the thinking of the “flaskmaster”

That tells me that as a GM, at this juncture in there careers, you would give Beltran a 7 year extension over Wright……hahahahahahahahaha…..LMAO. Absolutely ABSURD

>I Actually can’t wait to see them both wearing other uniforms. Watching RA pitch game seven >of next years World Series and David becoming MVP and world champion hitting a series >winning grand slam off the Blue Jays.

Since 2009, considering David’s track record after the 4th of July…I highly doubt it

>Watch Reyes smiling while David rounds the bases is going to be classic Mets moment…
>I mean some other teams classic moment. Ours is coming…2018, be there!!

Yes, I always saw Reyes and Wright as a package deal, with David being the more expendable of the 2

RA has produced 3 consecutive good seasons.

There is a better chance of Carlos Beltran being productive for the next 7 seasons than David Wright

Using sabermetrics doesn’t mean they throw out Traditional stats because they are old and passe….

They don’t look at Sabers and IGNORE or believe them MORE than the traditionals.

They look at them but they don’t let them rule the decision the way the Saberrattlers do.

The guys the Yankees get may have good Sabers but only because they have good traditional stats as well! Thats because Good players are good in BOTH types of Metrics!

And THAT is who the Yankees go to sign not just Sabermetrically good ones.
The teams that do that (Oakland) never seem to win a damn thing and if they do never more than once and done!

Perhaps it is time to start understanding what is going on…
Without starting with the assumption that Sandy can do no wrong!

I always find it funny when a fan thinks he is smarter than the rest of a professional sport. How many major league franchises have you ran?

And no this isn’t a line in the sand, It is more like a shot accross the bow!

To your point about “Saber Clowns” or “Saber Goons” (as others have called them). I work an industry that many current and former athletes (especially baseball players) go into in some aspect, so I’ve had the good fortune to have met a handful and I was shocked that most of the players (especially pitchers) swear by most of the metrics used by “Saber Clowns.” I was listening to WFAN the other day and David Cone said exactly the same thing and then Curt Schilling said the same on ESPN recently. Now I realize that they are not the end all be all but, I mean this with all due respect, I have to believe the know a little more than you, me, and most posters or bloggers.

And after what Sandy said I think it is for Wright and Dickey take this deal or I will find you a new home. (and I like that kind of dealing)

“At some point we need resolution on these discussions to be able to move on. But that time is not now” ??

Alderson tells us that? Then what about that report that the Mets and Wright were just $20 million apart and that on November 8th the Star Ledger reported about R.A.:

“One person with knowledge of the discussions indicated there could be a resolution before the month ends. The person requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of negotiations. The necessary terms for a deal were described as a “moving target.” A one-year extension, for example, would cost more per season than a three-year extension.”

The more mixed signals we get from Sandy and others within the organization the more it loses it’s credibility. All the sources needed to do was speak in terms of what Sandy said about not needing resolution right at this moment and being very hopeful about re-signing both.

One thought that occurred to me was that these other “sources” were not speaking for Sandy but planting these false statements as part of a concerted public relations effort – except we know that Sandy himself has shown he has the talent to do that all on his own.