17
2012
Alderson Draws A Line In The Sand
An article by 
According to Marc Carig of Newsday, Sandy Alderson is not necessarily seeking a resolution to either David Wright’s or R.A. Rickey’s contract situation right now, but would like some clarity after Thanksgiving but before the Winter Meetings.
“At some point we need resolution on these discussions to be able to move on. But that time is not now,” Alderson said, according to Carig. “[But between Thanksgiving and the Winter Meetings], we need to have… a little more clarity.”
The Winter Meetings take place from December 4-6 in Nashville, Tennessee.
It was only six, make that seven, weeks ago that Sandy Alderson said he wanted a quick resolution to this and that it wouldn’t drag on as it did with Jose Reyes. One Mets official even went so far as to say a deal would be in place with Wright by the World Series.
Instead, the only thing that has been accomplished was the clerical matter of exercising the 2013 options for both Wright and Dickey.
Let me decipher this for you in a military context. What Alderson just did today is called drawing a line in the sand. In other words, Wright and Dickey need to agree to a deal before he leaves for Nashville, or don’t cry foul if they each get dealt during a Tennessee-Two-Step.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
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I think we all knew these contract negotiations would need to be pretty well set by the winter meetings or SA was going from signing them both to trading them both.
There’s no way with the tiny bit of payroll flexibility they supposedly have that either one of these can drag out all winter.
I think one of them is going. this was just to let the other teams know to start with the offers (or up them).
This is all going to have a bad ending. Alderson’s plan all along was to make this his team and not Minaya’s. Now that Los Mets has been laid waste, time to get rid of those last few players that symbolize what Omar built. The only faces of the franchise allowed are the faces he brought in, Wheeler, Nimmo, Cecchini.
Minaya had nothing to do with Wright’s drafting or promotion. And do you really think people will remember who signed what free agent or who was around if the team wins?
And do you really think people will remember who signed what free agent or who was around if the team wins?
You really are the most naive poster here.
I know, but I jsut can’t help myself.
I refuse to let go of the notion that one day you will actually know what you are talking about.
If Nimmo and Checchini become the faces of the franchise, we are effed.
How so? For all you know, they are both going to be perennial All Stars. Not likely, but to have already determined their worth is just agenda driven tripe.
Alderson did exactly what he was supposed to do. He just let both players know that a) if they’re looking for someone to overpay for their services this is not the team, and b) neither one will impede the progress moving forward if they hold out. I just wish we knew the real numbers of the offers.
I think 4 years 40 million for RA is very fair. He’s a good pitcher and has been since day one with the Mets so you keep him, that’s IF you want to win. The other guy? It would be the best thing to happen to this franchise if Wright was moved and all that money that would’ve been used to pay for an over-rated, jogging, choke artist could be better served for some hungry major league ready talent/catcher/prospects, etc.
As if you could ever put any stock in what Alderson says. Dickey is as good as gone, and the Mets are trying their best to set Wright up with a box of chocolates. But hey, at least the Mets signed yet another player who can’t hit to save his life. Yay! At least it will be even easier to get a nice seat at the ballfield next summer.
All I’ll say is this:
If both of them go in the benefit of filling a lot of the holes the team have, so be it.
Anyone who actually believes that he ever intended to sign either of these guys to a long term deal this offseason is an idiot. That is all.
you guys are so jaded.. maybe stop being Met fans and life will get better for you. I will take time passing judgement , until things happen
i think you’re right and I’m actually thinking about rooting for another team but it has to be real you know? I’ve been looking at teams trying to find which team I identify with the most but it’s still hard to make such a change after rooting for one team almost your entire life but I certainly do not identify with anything the Mets are now. Far from it. So i’m looking but at worst right now i hate most of the saber clowns that are involved in the sport now and i do not care if Mets win or lose so that’s a start. But to actually move over to another team and be honest with yourself about it? It’s not easy but i’m trying.
This is insane! I agree with your value and assesment on RA (4 for $40Mil) but the guy will be 38 when the season starts and does NOT have long history of success. “The other guy” as you put it, has produced since day one, has been one of the leaders of this team, is a gamer, holds (or will soon) nearly all important offensive franchise records, was given the title (not something he wanted) of “Face of the Franchise” and did everything asked of him. All this and he has NEVER been linked to any PED scandal, or late night DUI nonesense, or anything to soil his name or paint the franchise in an even worse light, yet you can’t even say the man’s name. You’ve got issues! I’m not suggesting David Wright is the best player ever (He isn’t even my favorite Met ever) or that he’s a future Hall of Famer (he may become that) but he’s not Beetle Juice (you can’t even say his name or he’ll show up and wreck shop).
I understand the notion of trading him and starting over (although I completely disagree with it since I doubt we can get equal value) but treating him with this kind of disdain is just odd. Funny how you call him “Overpaid Jogging Choke Artist” yet there are some in your camp who were actually trying to defend Luis Castillo and many are still pininig for Angel Peagan and his constant brain farts.
To your point about “Saber Clowns” or “Saber Goons” (as others have called them). I work an industry that many current and former athletes (especially baseball players) go into in some aspect, so I’ve had the good fortune to have met a handful and I was shocked that most of the players (especially pitchers) swear by most of the metrics used by “Saber Clowns.” I was listening to WFAN the other day and David Cone said exactly the same thing and then Curt Schilling said the same on ESPN recently. Now I realize that they are not the end all be all but, I mean this with all due respect, I have to believe the know a little more than you, me, and most posters or bloggers.
the “other guy” has not produced a consistent good season since 2008
RA has produced 3 consecutive good seasons.
There is a better chance of Carlos Beltran being productive for the next 7 seasons than David Wright
JDD….”There is a better chance of Carlos Beltran being productive for the next 7 seasons than David Wright”
That tells me that as a GM, at this juncture in there careers, you would give Beltran a 7 year extension over Wright……hahahahahahahahaha…..LMAO. Absolutely ABSURD
Cardinals, Nationals, Yankees, Red Sox, and Rangers are just a few of the teams known to employee sabermetrics.
I always find it funny when a fan thinks he is smarter than the rest of a professional sport. How many major league franchises have you ran?
none of them use sabermetrics to the degree sabermetricians would like them to!
Using sabermetrics doesn’t mean they throw out Traditional stats because they are old and passe….
They don’t look at Sabers and IGNORE or believe them MORE than the traditionals.
They look at them but they don’t let them rule the decision the way the Saberrattlers do.
The guys the Yankees get may have good Sabers but only because they have good traditional stats as well! Thats because Good players are good in BOTH types of Metrics!
And THAT is who the Yankees go to sign not just Sabermetrically good ones.
The teams that do that (Oakland) never seem to win a damn thing and if they do never more than once and done!
How come nobody ever brings up “saber” teams that suck?
and for the record, every team in baseball has some sort of advanced metrics they use for evaluating players. I don’t think anyone uses Bill James metrics as a bible…but they have figured out what they believe is important.
People get this confused, Sabermetrics has nothing to do with “money ball”…”money ball” used some metrics that other teams didn’t put a high of value on because money ball teams thought they could get bargain players.
Hi Metsie,
When it comes down to it, other than the obvious all-star quality player-types, the dependency on stats is analogous to an employer first reading one’s resume. If he or she likes what he reads he then has to go onto interview the candidate to get to know what the person is really like.
The saber stats, just like traditional ones, do not tell the entire story. That’s why the people involved in signings, trades, releases, etc. have to go on what they know about the player from what they have seen and learned about him by his exploits on the field.
Any professional baseball organization whose people rely heavily on stats to tell them about a player’s strengths and weakness really doesn’t know the game at all. With the older player one needs to know if it appears he is losing a bit with his wrists and bad speed, if there is a pattern with a pitcher’s change in velocity; is the younger player adapt to getting into bad habits or does he actually adapt well and has the mechanics to even improve upon his skill. Or is there something in a pitcher’s delivery that could cause him to be through at a younger age (like some feel might be the case with Strausberg and a few years back with KRod).
And what about the player whose lack of skill is compensated with the intelligent way he plays the game – Billy Martin comes to mind as such a player. And then, there are the intangibles one brings to the clubhouse. It’s not like the obvious things one finds when it comes to big names like Puljos or Fielder – in these cases the stats matter little to clubs that are actually pursuing them as it is how much and how long a contract the player is seeking, his age, etc. It’s more like the Glider, Ed Charles in 1969. I got a lot of sarcastic remarks about how a 35 year old who played in just 61 games and hit only .207 could be called an invaluable part of that team, however, it was obvious that those comments came from those who only read up about the 1969 and went by stats instead of actually having followed the team first hand. Ask any of the players – Tom Seaver, Koozman, etc. They will tell you that they couldn’t have won it without Charles for as young players, his veteran leadership, steady guidance and knowledge gained from HIS career-long experience helped THEM in THEIR playing performance which led to victories during the pressure of that division race though Ed’s name hardly appeared in the box score.
Stats – saber or traditional – are for quick reference, like a resume, but other than for the big names in their prime, they are superficial when it comes the supporting cast that is also a very valuable ingredient in what is still a team sport.
Those who know baseball hardly need stats to tell them what they already know and can perceive down the road about a player. Stats are fun for accumulating credentials and records but again, can anyone appreciate just looking at his stats at how important Billy Martin was to those Yankee teams of the early fifties? Stats don’t reveal the things one needs to know about a player and what he can give to a team – just like that resume.
Joey it comes down to this….
GMs look for GOOD players and GOOD player have good stats no matter how many equations and what type you run the numbers through!
A good hitter has a High BA…He also has a high OBP!
But a hitter can also have a high OBP but can’t hit a lick!
The Yankees don’t go after what the Sabers say to look for they go by what looks good under ANY philosophy and metric calculation you can use!
Good players have good stats and good stats translate to good sabers AND good traditionals!!
The teams who have the best players are the guys who look for GOOD PLAYERS not good SABERS!
And if your going to throw out half the leaders in a metric based on price your not even getting the best SABER player either!
Which is why Moneyball has never won a damn thing!
Hi Metsie,
Anybody listening to a conversation with Ralph Kiner, Keith Hernandez, Ron Darling and occasional guest star Tom Seaver would know exactly what we are talking about. For those who want to know more about the beauty of how the game is played and the strategic involved, those conversations are great learning tools. They might learn facts with statistics but no substance as to what those stats represent.
Glad to see you made bail. I look forward to you further elevating the conversation in ways we are all accustomed to fans from Philly.
Well I don’t recall ever reading that the Mets “would” have a deal in place by the W.S. but rather it’s “conceivable” but getting past that I would expect that at some point the Mets would need resolution on these discussions to be able to move on. The talk all off season has been if the Mets are unable to resign either of the 2 to extensions then they would most likely consider trading them.
That the time is not now I don’t know how to interpret that other than what it says, the time is not now. The time may come at the start of or the end of the Winter Meetings or by Xmas or New Year’s Eve.
The only other quote was that they “need to have” then it goes off to nowhere and ends with “a little more clarity”.
It is as the title of the post suggests a line in the sand but a line I would think most expected to begin with.
I dont trust this guy anymore. He hasnt filled one hole since he got here and now we have a dozen of them. How can anyone trust him to trade our two biggest trade chips? This team is in complete shambles.
Sandy will trade them both and we’ll be sitting pretty in 2018 so hold on boys…it’s gunna be a bumpy ride.
I Actually can’t wait to see them both wearing other uniforms. Watching RA pitch game seven of next years World Series and David becoming MVP and world champion hitting a series winning grand slam off the Blue Jays.
Watch Reyes smiling while David rounds the bases is going to be classic Mets moment…I mean some other teams classic moment. Ours is coming…2018, be there!!
With Sandy’s fabulous track record for getting robbed in trades….I can see why you said this
>Sandy will trade them both and we’ll be sitting pretty in 2018 so hold on boys…it’s gunna be a >bumpy ride.
>I Actually can’t wait to see them both wearing other uniforms. Watching RA pitch game seven >of next years World Series and David becoming MVP and world champion hitting a series >winning grand slam off the Blue Jays.
Since 2009, considering David’s track record after the 4th of July…I highly doubt it
>Watch Reyes smiling while David rounds the bases is going to be classic Mets moment…
>I mean some other teams classic moment. Ours is coming…2018, be there!!
Yes, I always saw Reyes and Wright as a package deal, with David being the more expendable of the 2
Hi Joe,
“At some point we need resolution on these discussions to be able to move on. But that time is not now” ??
Alderson tells us that? Then what about that report that the Mets and Wright were just $20 million apart and that on November 8th the Star Ledger reported about R.A.:
“One person with knowledge of the discussions indicated there could be a resolution before the month ends. The person requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of negotiations. The necessary terms for a deal were described as a “moving target.” A one-year extension, for example, would cost more per season than a three-year extension.”
The more mixed signals we get from Sandy and others within the organization the more it loses it’s credibility. All the sources needed to do was speak in terms of what Sandy said about not needing resolution right at this moment and being very hopeful about re-signing both.
One thought that occurred to me was that these other “sources” were not speaking for Sandy but planting these false statements as part of a concerted public relations effort – except we know that Sandy himself has shown he has the talent to do that all on his own.
Joe, are those other “sources” planting these false statements just to see what the people online think about these statements. IF everybody go nuts on those statements online will that be the complete fanbase thinking?
And after what Sandy said I think it is for Wright and Dickey take this deal or I will find you a new home. (and I like that kind of dealing)
Or it could be reporters and bloggers just making stuff up. It seems everyone has a “Met source” yet few are right about anything.
Sandy Alderson is a two-timing A-hole who cannot be trusted as he’s repeatedly shown since he’s been here. Yet again more crap from him just days after he said he wouldn’t negotiate through the media in agreement with David’s Wright side who wanted same. So what is he doing now? Negotiating through the media with unmistakeable snarky undertone reminiscient of his disengenoius ways with Jose Reyes
Negotiating through the media? Are you serious. That isnt negotiating through the media? Perhaps it is time to start understanding what is going on.
Yeah then what do you call it taskmaster?
Perhaps it is time to start understanding what is going on…
Without starting with the assumption that Sandy can do no wrong!
Metsie,
The “flaskmaster” thinks this way:
- Blame the Wilpons while Sandy is the GM
- But he rips Omar and not the Wilpons when Omar was the GM
That’s the thinking of the “flaskmaster”
Don’t look now but I think someone just broke the agreement about negotiating in the press!
And no this isn’t a line in the sand, It is more like a shot accross the bow!
there should be a mathematical formula that GMs follow for guys in the thirty range: NO LONG TERM CONTRACT. NONE. Why is that so hard to understand? Guys ask for 7 years–say good bye.