Oct
12
2012
12
2012
The Differences Between The Mets and a Playoff Team
An article by 
So far, this has been a compelling playoffs with plenty of excitement and widespread interest. Major League Baseball is thrilled, and hopefully this trend will continue in the League Championship Series and World Series.
That’s what baseball should be about.
Hopefully, the Mets are taking notes. Four of the teams in the playoffs – Oakland, Baltimore, Cincinnati and Washington – have payrolls less than the $100 million the Mets shelled out this year for the joy of finishing 14 games below .500.
Here’s what the playoff teams have that the Mets lack:
- Pitching: Both starting and bullpen are vital to winning. Always has been, always will be. That’s why I get frustrated when I hear complaints about the Mets’ lack of power. Home runs are the great eraser and the Yankees proved that last night. But, they were in position to win because of pitching. Three games against the Orioles and their starters reached the eighth inning each time. Unheard of. All of the teams have solid pitching and a good bullpen. As I wrote earlier today, Baltimore’s Darren O’Day is making $1.35 million this year, so it can be done inexpensively. However, that requires an aggressive front office and superior scouting, two areas where the Mets need improvement.
- Strong Minor League System: It would be foolish to say each of these teams were built solely on their farm system. Detroit and the Yankees all acquired significant talent from the outside, but there is core home grown talent from all. Just look at Matt Wieters, Joey Votto, Matt Cain and Bryce Harper. I would have mentioned Stephen Strasburg, but the Nationals pulled him from the playoffs. It could bite them in the butt, and what if the Nationals never get back here? It is possible. That is why it was encouraging this summer when several times the Mets fielded a full home grown-lineup and why I am opposed conceptually to trading Ike Davis. The Mets have a home product who hit 32 homers this year. Those don’t come along often, and rarely for the Mets. Davis is a start, along with Jon Niese, Matt Harvey and Ruben Tejada, not to mention David Wright. Bolstering the farm system and improving the scouting are essential for long-term growth. Free-agent signings should be to complement what’s already there.
- Strong Catching: Wieters is clearly the catcher with the most upside in the group. Regardless of how Russell Martin has played in October, the idea of pursuing him is outlandish and it was a ridiculous idea in the first place. Obviously, a slow news day. Martin is too old and too expensive for a rebuilding team, and let’s not kid ourselves, that defines the Mets. I was initially optimistic about Josh Thole, but those feelings have waned. He’s not hit for average or power and his defense has regressed. And, let’s not blame R.A. Dickey’s knuckleball for it. Catching is an issue, but I don’t believe it is as high on the Mets’ priority list as adding outfielders and relievers.
- Timely Hitting: It doesn’t get more timely than what Raul Ibanez did last night. The Mets were clutch in the first half, but their hitting with runners in scoring position disappeared in the second half. It all fell on Wright after the All-Star break and he couldn’t handle the strain. Each of these teams has an offensive core, hitters that concern an opposing manager. After Wright, and at times Davis, who is frightening in the Mets’ lineup. Scott Hairston had a good season coming off the bench, as Ibanez did, but after hitting 20 homers for the first time he might be too expensive to bring back.
- Home Field Advantage: So far, it hasn’t helped San Francisco and Cincinnati, but nonetheless each of the teams in the postseason had a winning record at home. The Mets can’t ever be a serious contender until they learn to use Citi Field as an advantage. I understand the Catch-22, that part of that advantage is having people in the stands. The Mets need to improve the first four before this will take root. When Citi Field opened the Mets were vocal in saying they would build around pitching and defense, so naturally the first thing they did was sign Jason Bay. That’s the final lesson I hope the Mets learn …
- Have A Plan: Where are the Mets headed? If they don’t bring back Wright and Dickey, then it is back to square one. The team is operating as if they have no money and that’s a discouraging sign. GM Sandy Alderson said the team had the resources to add at the trade deadline, but waited until the team had fallen out of contention before deciding it was too late. On one hand, the Mets are singing the praises of their young pitching, but on the other it is exploring trading Davis, and could not bring back Wright or Dickey. What gives?
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 18 | .591 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 22 | .511 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 24 | .467 | 5.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 25 | .405 | 8.0 |
| Marlins | 13 | 32 | .289 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/21/2013
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So you name 6 different reasons yet you only said THREE differences on the title?
anyways, having a FO that at least try always help… It starts there.. if they show no faith on the players they have in the roster why should they care back? coaching is mediocre at best, SP is ok but not good enough if the bullpen sucks ass, the offense got WORST, losing reyes proved to be a major blow for this team, they had no speed on the basepath, they relied too much on walks and singles to produce a run, before without a hit they could’ve scored a run, putting pressure on the opposite team’s defense and pitcher, now, teams do not fear the mets, as they know that their approach is to go there and wait for a walk and there’s gonna be no running the bases so, it caught up with them. This team is very far away to be a playoffs team because we have gotten worse in pretty much all areas since SA got here.. When he leaves maybe we can dream again
Alex68 — “So you name 6 different reasons yet you only said THREE differences on the title?”
Once again let’s pass the hat around so Alex can go to a reading comprehension school. Here is what John mentioned in his article:
1) Pitching
2) Strong Minor League System
3) Strong Catching
4) Timely Hitting
5) Home Field Advantage
6) Have A Plan
It all boils down to one word: talent. If it ain’t there, you ain’t winning.
The Mets operate in the presence of SA as if George Young is in charge. GY: You think proper image. SA: You think proper image. They want their squeeky clean player who listens to coaches and FO (think Beltran who didn’t), hustles at all times (JBay), and of course per moneyball is equal or better value for their market price. In addition they must go deep: Not neccessarily over the fences (think Ike rumors) but deep in the count. Where the heck is the best player available. Answer on other teams. The likes of Ike and Niese are too good for this team. They are not considered core. Thru farm system and selective FA you BUILD a competitive team. When ownership is in a survival mode you have chaos. Now that the Met ownership are out of ER they will aim to keep their sqeeky clean all stars at their moneyball price. If the Mets price is not right (pun unintentional) they will carry on without them as if GY is GM.
“Four of the teams in the playoffs – Oakland, Baltimore, Cincinnati and Washington – have payrolls less than the $100 million the Mets shelled out this year….”
So let’s not whine about big market vs. small market. Payroll is a factor but not always a critical factor.
Des, funny, the Reds and A’s are out, baltimore and Nationals will follow suit.. Maybe we don’t wanna hear about small market teams either… again, good for them that they made the playoffs, but remember, credit those team’s coaching staff if anything, not about small payroll, but those teams got good coaches, davey johnson, buck, dusty baker and even melvin are good coaches.
I would credit the Nationals with talent more than good coaching. Pitching, hitting, etc. is what got them where they are.
That being said, I’m rooting for the Cards in that game today.
While the Yankees definitely have the edge today going with CC, I wouldn’t count the Orioles out yet. Yankees offense was shut down last night with just about every pitcher the Orioles threw out there.
These two games should be fun to watch.
Ok, you can have all the talent in the world, but good coaching is what can maximize that talent wouldn’t you say???? They have a ton a talented ball players i agree, but DJ has made the most out of all those players, you think the orioles got talent? You think they are as talented as the yankees? if we go on paper no, but clearly Buck is a better coach than girardi, so the edge balances out there imo.
And in regards of the 2 games, i too have cards and yankees.. I think both games will not be as close..
I think even Jerry could have won with that group the Nats had this year.
But I agree with you that just having talent alone is sometimes not enough. Just look at the Marlins this year. Not that I’m putting all the blame on Ozzie but sometimes it’s not enough to just go out and buy the FAs that are at the top of their game. That Marlins team didn’t click from day one. Moving Hanley to 3rd base was probably doomed from the start. Heath Bell not only was terrible, he couldn’t keep his mouth shut. It appears that Loria didn’t have much of a plan to put complimentary pieces together to form a championship type team. He just wanted to make a big splash to go along with his shiny new stadium. Three/four months in, he pulls the plug. Operating the way he does is a big part of the reason why the Marlins can’t sustain any kind of fan base.
Ahhh, Jerry Manuel couldn’t win with BELTRAN, Reyes and Delgado and the ultimate complemantary player wright.. how on earth he would’ve won with the NATS? totally disagree with you on that ..The Rest of your comment gets a THIS^^^ from me. Wanna know something even more amazing?? The Entire year the Miami Marlins had only 2 SELLOUTS!
yeah but injuries killed the mets in 2005-2006-2008-2009-2010
2008 – Jerry had no bullpen and a fresh new and idiotic bullpen coach in Warthen…
2009 – everyone and their momma hurt
2010 – Reyes out in the early part of the year…Beltran out…Bay was Bay….
jerry sucked, but u gotta admit, his idea of moving Reyes to 3rd in the lineup paid off for the Marlins..He hit .308 with 6 triples and 5 HR in 250 AB’s…and cut down on his K rate…
I still blame him for Cliff Floyd in Game 7 of the NLCS though…
That second half BP from ’08 after Wagner went down – speaking of, watched Ayala come in late in that Orioles game and give up nothing to the Yankee offense. And O’Day? Sigh….
O’Day was and still is a journeyman…he got released from the Angels a few weeks before we released him…he’s been on 4 teams in 5 years…
im more ticked off we traded joe smith
You do realize that “journeyman” has now pitched in 255 games to a 2.73 ERA and 1.058 WHIP?
I certainly wouldn’t mind that journeyman taking a journey back here as well.
Fun fact. Ramon Ramirez in his last 276 Games before coming to the Mets had a 2.77ERA 1.21WHIP – but because we know he had a bad year we can call it a bad trade.
If the Mets traded for ODay today it’d be a great job and then if he had a bad year we’d have people screaming that it was a mistake.
O’Day is sick right now, Yanks cannot see the ball it seems
of course…
and the mets signed a journeyman SP named RA Dickey…
Were the Rangers and Mariners wrong for releasing him too?
cuz i have a feeling if we had Dickey…let him go..and then he turns into a 20 game winner…we would be crying alot harder than we are for Darren O Day..
the difference b/w our fan base and Rangers/Mariners can be summed up in how differently we react to things like that…
Hi Jessep,
It looked like a bad trade for even if Rameriz performed well, we would have still given up too much for a middle relief specialist. Torres was no replacement in center.
I still don’t think they ever intended on Torres being the long-term replacement. I think they were very high on Kirk and were not very high on Pagan’s attitude and did not consider him a long-term solution either.
It ended up being a bad trade for sure but at the time considering Ramirez stellar past it was at least an understandable deal.
Problem was here Reyes wasn’t mature enough to handle moving to the 3 spot and pouted about it the entire time. I still always said that locking him into the 1st spot actually decreased his overall potential. He was too good of an RBI guy to just throw into the lead-off spot. Besides his bigger impact was extra-base hits, not the stolen base which never seemed to come at an opportune time anyway.
Yeah, he pouted too when with a bad oblique he went out there and play his ass off, and even batted right handed just because he wanted to play and help the team.. He pouted big time there too right?
You know what really makes me sick from you, it’s that you portrait this “i’m not bias” BS to many here, but i have known you for too long to know when you’re being a cynic. You quickly bring up reyes’ negatives as to point out how bad of a person/player or immature he was, yet when other players don’t hustle on ground balls, jug to first base or show off their manager in a screaming match you don’t point that out..
This is where my problem has always been about mets fans and their DS. Reyes played hurt during that time, yet all they bring up is him pouting about batting 3rd. however, had that being the golden boy we would’ve not heard the end of it as to how he’s the ultimate team player yada yada… Martino was 100% right.
No only you focus on the negative because you are looking for something that isn’t there. Only here could saying ” I still always said that locking him into the 1st spot actually decreased his overall potential. He was too good of an RBI guy to just throw into the lead-off spot.”
Again, you show your bias. You accuse others of always coming to Wright’s defense anytime someone says something negative at all about Wright, yet what do you do when someone says something true about Reyes? Did Reyes or did he not pout about being moved to the 3rd spot? If you believe he did not then say so. Don’t start the double standard crap up again.
well u throw in intangible ( and impossible to prove ) concepts like…
“he wasnt mature enough”
to handle moving from leadoff to hitting 3rd…
…but he was mature enough at 19 to move to 2B so Kaz Matsui can play SS…
David Wright balked at moving to the OF in 2011 to allow Murphy to play 3B
https://twitter.com/AdamRubinESPN/status/172424334831394816
No one said he wasnt mature…
then again…the press also says he is a fiery leader when he screams at Collins for taking him out of a game…but Reyes is a child throwing a tantrum when he screams at Manuel for taking him out of a game…
Im not saying ur prejudice …im saying that listening to the media for x amount of time will lead to opinions that are a bit slanted…
and in NYC…the media is way too gossip-hungry to really be trusted…this is why Reyes smacked the sh*t out of Keith on a flight back from the west coast…
u dont think thats going to affect Keith’s opinion ( and henceforth the listeners ) when he is broadcasting a game?
this is why David Wright and Jason Bay get the passes from the media that Reyes and Beltran didnt…
this is why David Wright jogging out a groundball is never called lazy…if he drops a pop-up…or gets picked off 1B…he’s never called anything…its just a mistake…
when its Reyes…totally different story…
99.999% of these reporters are suburban white guys who see Reyes, Valdespin, Milledge Harris as all the same person…someone they dont relate to, they dont understand and someone they are not having a beer with at the bar after the game…
dress it up and call it whatever u want…
but ur gonna favor people who u have most in common with…
we need diversity in sports journalism if we are ever going to break out of this BS we have been fed
You certainly are caught up in all this stuff and feel strongly about it, I give you credit for that. To me I look at each situation individually and one has nothing to do with another. Wright’s treatment has nothing to do with Reyes and vice-versa.
A great college professor told me “There is nothing so unequal as the equal treatment of others”. Many will not understand that comment but I have let it guide me through teaching and coaching if you understand the deeper meaning.
Which proves ultimately that fans want to see wins and a consistent winner is the only way to develop consistent income.
Floyd? Really?? How about wagner not coming in for being a choker in the playoffs? game was tied, you are supposed to go to your closer in a tie game at home, but wagner was so PO_ that willie had little faith in him and brought in heilman. also, Imho, it shouldn’t even had gotten to go to a game 7. game 2 was the turning point of the series, game is 6-4 and mota who was clearly all over the place was struggling bad, willie comes out and STICK with him instead of bringing heilman who was deadly to LHB. Spiezio triples, game tied, in comes wagner and blows the tied game in the 9th, rest is history. Had we been up 2-0 instead of going to st louis 1-1 that series would’ve been very different.
The difference between the Mets and those playoff teams is that the front office DOES have a plan. It’s called not having to sell the team. And that plan results with players feeling kicked in the teeth and having no faith in them two years running.
Strong Ownership that doesnt allow yesterday’s mistake to be the reason for today’s frugality…
Jayson Werth
Barry Zito
Aaron Rowand
all extremely highly paid BUSTS
none of them got in the way of Washington/SF reinvesting properly in their future
that doesnt happen in Queens…
Things dont work out and the Wilpons fear of public backlash hinders them from doing the right thing…
in 2006, despite an aging staff…we passed up on trading Milledge for Zito at the trade deadline..mainly b/c of the embarrasment from 2004′s Kazmir trade…
we end up holding onto Milledge too long…and Pedro/Duque get hurt in August/Sept of 2006…
that pick that SF gave up to Oakland in 2007 for signing Zito turned into Sean Doolittle…a primary component of their middle relief in 2012…
( to make it worse…Jordan Zimmerman, Freeman, G Stanton were all picked in round 2 that year )
I always saw Zito in 2005/2006 as our Mike Hampton…a hired gun we trade for that leaves for max cash…
of course if Zito/Hampton would’ve resulted in a ring…its possible we resign them…and end up with busts…but at that point, I think we wouldnt care too much…
Actually you could say that Jayson Werth’s contract DID get in the way for the Nationals in adding another hitter to their lineup. LaRoche had a great year but I would venture to say that Prince would be the 1B now if not for Werth’s contract. We know why they signed him to that large deal but it still doesn’t mean that it did not limit their future moves.
But they actually went after Prince…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/prince-fielder-chooses-detroit-tigers-over-washington-nationals/2012/01/24/gIQAuiDbOQ_story.html
they were just not going to go over 200 mil and 10 years on an obese 1B who they cant put in a DH position once his defensive range declines…
http://baseball.about.com/od/majorleagueplayers/a/topsalaries.htm
thats why I think David Wright will go to the AL…
there are contenders there who can use a 3B AND have the money to spend…
But do you think they would have matched the contract from the Tigers if they had not over spent on Werth?
“Jayson Werth
Barry Zito
Aaron Rowand
all extremely highly paid BUSTS
none of them got in the way of Washington/SF reinvesting properly in their future”
And what was their payroll prior to their pitchers coming of age?
The Giants didn’t go over $100 million until last year and the Nats still aren’t over $100 million and aren’t even guaranteed to do so in the enxt few years.
So, ya, reality is not your friend here.
“in 2006, despite an aging staff…we passed up on trading Milledge for Zito at the trade deadline..mainly b/c of the embarrasment from 2004′s Kazmir trade…”
Or maybe for the same reason most teams didn’t go all in for him: his declining strike out rates and individual performance indicators.
Delcos, you are slipping!!!!
The differences you mention are not between the Mets and a playoff team, they are between the Mets and about every other team not named the Astros.
Thankfully the biggest fluke in baseball, the Oakland A’s, are out and back home watching the rest of the post season on TV. Next year they will be right back where they belong, last place. But there’s enough here for a sequel. Another ALDS exit for the Beanster and still no rings.
I know the bias against moneyball and I get it and all but to discredit what they did by actually winning the division with a bunch of misfit hitters and rookie pitchers dethroning the defending the back to back AL WS representative was quite impressive. Calling them a fluke cheapens one of the better stories in baseball IMO. Above all the side picking, I am a baseball fan first and an underdog story like that? Compelling to say the least. That being said, it would be good for the city of Detroit to win the WS.
hey TRS – I agree with you. I think anybody rooting against Oakland was either a Tigers fan or just hates a team for no reason.
They didn’t say they used “moneyball” In fact if you look at their roster,
it was built on POWER, not OBP – 7th in HR in baseball, 24th in baseball in OBP.
it was built on DEFENSE
it was built with a great BULLPEN to protect a young/inexperienced pitching staff
Those 3 things do not fit the mold of the 2002 A’s that a book was written about. To win 94 games out of 162 and beat out the 2 time AL Champs, and a team that spent $300m in the offseason in LA and then to go into the playoffs with:
-All Rookie Starting Staff
-Starting 3B who was supposed to be a C in the minors
-RF that they were mocked for acquiring in exchange for their closer Andrew Bailey
-Trading away Gio & Cahill
-Being predicted to lose 100 games
-Losing their #3 starter to a steroid issue
-Losing their #4 starter to a line drive to the head which almost cost him his life
-Being 5 games UNDER .500 on June 30 and 13 games out of 1st
I’m sorry but if anybody tries to downplay how impressive of a season the Oakland coaches, players and executives had they are just simply not enjoying the sport as they should and being blinded by a book that literally has NOTHING to do with how this team was built and how they performed.
I honestly feel bad for anybody who spent time rooting against them because of any vendetta they may have against sabermetrics. They blew an opportunity to enjoy one of the best baseball stories in a long time.
Hi Jessep,
Many of us were rooting for Oakland just as we are for Baltimore.
As you know, I am no fan of the concept of money ball and expansive statistical analysis but who could not feet good for those guys for what they did? Billy Beane deserves all the credit he can get – when Gonzalez was traded due to his approaching arbitration who would have thought the trade would work out so well for Oakland.
Whether they can continue their great run next year needs to be seen. The kids that put together our own 1969 miracle never approached such success after that (1973 included).
Nobody can say it was because they played in a weak division, either. Congratulations Oakland on a great season.
Many of us were rooting for Oakland just as we are for Baltimore”
Who is us??? Don’t count me in that group…. they are a fluke team that got once again exposed in the playoffs yesterday.
Hi Alex,
LOL – that is why I said “many” and not “all” of us.
Well said.
Anything can happen in those post season playoffs. Look at the Reds. Won their division and now they’re going onto the golf course with the As.
Cardinals beat the Braves in a one and done game when on paper, the Braves had won more games. And oh how Wren is whining to the press about that one game playoff. LOL.
It’s why I love watching baseball. Anything can happen. You just cannot predict it.
Exactly, I would have loved to see Baltimore and Oakland face each other, what a compelling story to knock off the Yanks and if the A’s had won one more game they would have knocked off the Rangers and Tigers after already finishing off the Angels in September. Again, baseball is an incredible sport.
Jessep, I think even you are falling victim to the moneyball myths instead of actual theories. MB wasn’t just about OBP. The only reason it was at that time was that some in baseball weren’t valuing it as much today. In fact so many teams value OBP now it would be the OPPOSITE of moneyball at this point. Perhaps this version of moneyball valued above average defensive players with pop?
TRS – No no… My statement is based on the common knock against the book and theory. I am merely suggesting the people who do hate it usually point to OBP, SABR stats, and mock the fact they had Zito/Mulder/Hudson and that is why they won. I’ve read the book, I understand the difference between the book concepts and the moneyball movie “he gets on base” concepts.
So all I’m doing is pointing out that the 3 things most noted when people complain about the book/theory was not present in the 2012 A’s.
I think only time will tell if Beane is focusing on a new method. This team was Power+Defense+Bullpen. The two most underrated items on the field happen to be the hardest to predict and evaluate: defense & bullpen.
I didn’t think OAK could beat DET which is why I picked it that way – but that doesn’t diminish the value of the A’s season.
The A’s had an incredible year from the front office to the coaches to the bullpen etc. If the Orioles lose to NYY – it doesn’t take away from their awesome season.
Rooting against the A’s because of a feeling you get when somebody talks about a book you probably never read – only did an injustice to yourself for missing out on a great baseball story this year.
And for those people, I feel bad because the A’s season encapsulates what is great about the sport and to be negative toward that simply because of a book written 10 years ago is sad really.
I agree. The thing in all of this that makes me laugh is titling OBP as a saber-stat. Go onto a saber site and ask them if they consider things like OBP or OPS or WHIP saber stats. LOL
Correct. What I always find funny is I am lumped in as a saber guy – those are the only stats I use that could be CONSIDERED saber and they are like the Steel Reserve of sabermetrics.
If you compared me to say Xtreemicon, we’re polar opposites when it comes to stats yet both labeled saber supporters. Go figure.
There was literally no good reason to root against Oakland unless you were a DET fan. You’re rooting against the chance to make something special happen in spite of your roster, you’re rooting against a small market competing against much larger payrolls, rooting against a team pegged to lose 94 games by SI, rooting against a team with a rookie starting staff, rooting against a team that was 13 games out and came back not only to win the division – but to do so by BEATING the 2x defending AL champs.
And they are doing that because of a misguided hatred for a man who played professional baseball, and sees things different than they do and does what he can around the limitations his city and his owner put in front of him. If the circumstances were 100% the same but the GM was different – I’d feel the same exact way, but the ones who rooted against Oakland would be with me as well.
That’s why I feel bad for anybody who rooted against them.
They wasted a chance to embrace an amazing baseball season.
Whoa Whoa WHOA!!!!!
So the fact that they didn’t go OBP means they are not Moneyballin?
I thought Moneyball didn’t have anything to do with OBP it’s just that OBP was the undervalued stat at the time?
Are you changing your opinion on that fact?
Perhaps HRs are now the UNDEVALUED METRIC since all teams are now putting OBP at the top of thier list?
TRS, you’re thinking like a baseball fan. You’re sitting back and enjoying the great drama of these playoffs.
The problems of these Yankee fans in disguise have nothing to with baseball.
Eh they are not Yankees fans but it seems that their hate of certain things consumes them.
There was another post I thin last week in which several of them clearly said they were cheering to the Yankees in some weird way of showing up the Mets.
And they keep crying about not playing checkbook baseball.
And they display the knowledge and emotional maturity of the typical Yankee fan.
Well, it’s not more of rooting for the yankees, more like rooting for teams that make moves and go out and spend the money fans put in the team instead of trying to pocket as much as they can
So, checkbook baseball.
So, which name is on the back of your “authentic” jersey: Jeter or Sabathia?
So you still think that spending money is the only way or at least the best way to win a championship? Me? I realize that for most teams it’s right in the middle. You need to have a sound approach in development and spending. The Marlins, Redsox and Dodgers are great examples that you can’t just quickly through money at a situation and fix it.
whoops
Throw
Again, we have seen what NOT spending money and trying to shove stupid phylosophies can also do to your team… while throwing money at everything, you cannot tell me that NOT throwing money and trying to save as much as you can works either.. So there, how you like them apples moneyballer?
We’re willing to give sa all kinds of pass because the team have no money now, yet when he was hired the notion was thuis dude was supposed to be some sort of genius at finding undervalue players for us to be competitive and good.. 2 years later of pure crap, BLAME THE WILPONS because they have no money right? Yeah, un huh… You guys don’t wanna throw money out there, yet everytime Sandy fails the excuse you use is the team having NO MONEY.. so which beliefs do you 2 really follow??
I love EXPOSING phonies like you 2
I really can’t read an entire comment of your’s anymore.
But regardless, you do realize that the Mets spent a ton of money last year right? How much do you think payroll would have increased for 2011 if Sandy had not been here? They were broke… you can’t spend money you don’t have.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/8215/mets-money-already-tied-up-in-2011
You can’t hide this stuff. This article was from August of 2010.
The problem with the Mets since 2008 isn’t that they haven’t spent money, it’s who it was spent on.
This.
The Mets weren’t ‘saving’ any money, as Alex states. It’s not like it’s in their pocket burning a hole there.
Any money not spent just went towards paying down debt for the 2012 season, as did mostly all the minority investors $$ except the last one who bought in during the season.
What I don’t think people get is you can’t spend money you don’t have. I think the country might need that lesson as well but that’s a different story. The only reason the US can still spend more than it has is that they have someone willing to allow them to borrow a seemingly unlimited amount and they can print their own money as well… LOL.
The Mets had borrowed ALL they could and actually even more than they were supposed to. So again, lets say they decided last year to go out and get, hell I don’t know, Fielder. Where exactly would they have gotten the money to pay him? Many are saying that the increased attendance would have paid for it. However, you are placing your franchise on the line when you do that. If it backfires, the team was so unstable they would have had to sell the team. They played it safe trying to shed some bad contracts, plain and simple.
Yup, you’ll get no argument from me.
I’ve gone on record as saying if the Mets weren’t in the financial mess that they were after the 2011 season, Reyes would still be a Met.
Instead, they slashed payroll some 50 MIL, and tried to fill all holes with about a 10 MIL budget to play with – over and above what was already committed.
No one will make me believe the Wilpons said go ahead and spend money and SA said ‘no thanks’.
Honestly the contract they “offered” “proposed” for Reyes was most likely calculated in the fact of well if it still tanks can we keep the team…. I think they decided that was the max they could go. But I also think they had no idea that the Marlins would go loony and offer something no other team was willing to even consider.
Business’ who wish to grow thier business and revenues do it all the time!
They open a store that the mere profits they are making in one store doesn’t pay for on the reasoning that by having a second store it will do as well as the other and pay for itself!
By taking a RISK (not making an investment as you guys try to make it out to be) that the NEW PRODUCT LINE will draw enough buyers to pay the cost of carrying that new product!
It’s called Business GROWTH!
No business has ever made MORE money by decising to stop carrying the few products that do draw people to thier business!
The way we did when we purged Beltran, Reyes, K-Rod while keeping Bay who doesn’t sell anything!
The Mets payroll in 2012 was $93 million, which was 14th in baseball. That was not a ton of money. The Twins spent more. Had they been able to spend $110 million (which would have ranked them 9th) they could have been appreciably better. The fact they are not spending a lot on their minor league prospects shoudl also tell us something.
I said last year as in 2011.
again,were you around this blog when sandy was hired? for us who “don’t know” about moneyball and its creators etc, we were put through many articles about the guy being a genius and that we know we didn’t have any money but that with this guy at the helm, we were gonna be able to fix our financial mess while also be competitive. first article was about BRAD EAMUS, which idiots in here consider a great asset to the team’s need already..
That should tell you all you need to know about what was going on around that time. and please, don’t give me that crap about me basing my comments on what others think, i am basing this on the fact that we have an inept GM and people keep making excuse for the guy
OK got it, I forgot you let the opinions of others dictate your stance on things. I keep forgetting that.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2010/12/mets-rule-v-draft-another-2b-candidate.html – facts if you ever want actual quotes. just throwin it out there.
I like this one better. From the leader of the site. It summarizes how MANY of us felt and it had nothing to do with Moneyball.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2010/10/the-moneyball-mets-i-dont-think-so.html
Fuson, who knows Alderson better than just about any person alive, substantiates what I wrote. Sandy Alderson is a smart guy… a take charge guy… a hands-on guy…
There will be plenty of instances where he’ll turn to advanced statistics to evaluate a potential signing, draft pick or trade target, and that’s not a bad thing. He will use statistics to measure performance and a player’s productivity as well he should. This is what most or all GM’s do each and every day as routine part of their jobs. Baseball is all about numbers, so to ignore them would be akin to disrespecting the game.
However, Alderson will not use sabermetrics as the end-all to running an organization. He will use every tool in his arsenal to build a winner and that includes using his own instincts and scouting reports as well. He will consider things like character because he himself is a man of integrity. This is what he’s done his entire career, and he’s not suddenly going to stop now.
So I urge my sabermetricaly inclined friends, to take a deep breath and stop fantasizing about some Cecil B. DeMille epic where Alderson will raise his mighty staff, part the Hudson River, and lead the Mets into the promised land where they can worship Bill James at the foot of Mount Saber.
It ain’t happening…”
Well, that sure is interesting….
Seems opinions have changed some from 2 years ago. And in my estimation that’s for one reason and one reason only: the Mets have had 3 losing seasons in ’10, ’11 and ’12.
There’s a reason they say winning cures all….
There were 250 comments on that post but I can’t see them. That would be interesting to read as well.
Looks like they’re hidden, archived or no longer there. I can’t get to them either.
Emaus is no slouch….
Maniac, THANK GOD Justin verlander shut them up… It’s quite boring to have sabergooners actually drool over another team’s GM and its pathetic phylosphy that have won nothing.. but hey, keep the faith right??
Yes, what a beautiful baseball story Justin Verlander is. The Tigers went out and got Fielder and now go to ALDS. It’s a beautiful baseball story.
Well this is what Sandy’s goal is…to be young, cheap, and good. And you know what? You can still lose to big, fat, slow, & expensive. So all these years we have to wait just to see what we saw last night happen anyway.
So, you’d rather be fat slow and expensive than…good?
I have Bobby Bonilla on line 1 for you.
LOL yeah cause we all know Duda is a regular Speedy Gonzales right?
SRT will like this:
http://deadspin.com/5951256/the-marlins-asked-fans-to-share-their-favorite-memories-from-this-season-it-went-about-how-youd-expect?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
Is it really fair to pick on those 5 fans, they have been through enough already. Imagine how poor attendance would be if they hadn’t put a nightclub in the stadium? LOL.
LOL, pretty funny Alex.
My favorite was: ‘Heath Bell LMAO’.
Anyone notice every time we played the Marlins there, the SNY camera crew made sure to show a couple of shots of those girls dancing in the nightclub beyond the OF? I had to LOL listening to Keith trying to be ‘politically correct’ when commenting on that.
Seriously, what team focused on winning actually puts a nightclub IN the stadium? LOL. That alone should have told you Loria’s plans had nothing to do with winning.
‘”The time Ozzie Guillen teased my child with a baseball on a string for 30 minutes while his starting pitcher walked six consecutive batters.”
Gotta love Ozzie.