I think they’ll be able to obtain a veteran OF Inexpensively , a player who would rather play everyday then try to squeeze extra money in an unfavorable situation.

I’d attempt to trade any any or all of Familia, Mejia, McHugh, Gee to add a reliable everyday player maybe that could play cf and another of position. And we NEED to address our catching situation with urgency and get at least one relief pitcher..

It’s possible our starting pitching is sick next year and carries us but I really hope they make some prudent offseason moves it will be hard to watch the same guys attempt to win cause of payroll issues

EXCELLENT!

How could anyone think that the owners were so irresponsible that they didn’t think they could afford such contracts at the time and make profit nevertheless. They had the advantage of being in the biggest market in the country and the revenue such advantage yields. In addition, that higher payroll, when compared to the overall picture of income and expense – which includes SNY either directly or indirectly – makes those extra millions seem like petty cash.

Using that money wisely, of course, is another issue. But we are talking about the financial aspects of being able to enter into such contract agreements.

What the Wilpons, of course, did not expect was the Madoff scandal. What they also didn’t expect was for fans, either in the form of season ticket holders or those who go once or twice a year, rejecting being forced having to pay such high prices and in a sense saying “enough is enough”. And the reason being is that we all understood the Wilpons – with SNY – could still make plenty of profit in a smaller capacity park while keeping ticket prices more affordable. They just wanted to max out the fan base as much as they could and we knew that they were giving us the shaft.

Johan has 5 mil deferred in 2013…and the 5 mil buyout + Bay’s 3 mil buyout = 13 million MORE they COULD spend for the 2013 payroll…

what they also neglect to mention is that the deferred money to Bonilla, Saberhagen, Beltran, and Santana was placed in the stock market…back when they were investing with Madoff…

so the 1.5 % interest rate they were supposed to pay the player was backed by the damn near guarenteed interest rates they were getting with Bernie…

THATS why they offered those deals to them in the first place…

what they DONT report to you is how much money they made off of Bonilla’s 20 mil investment…

but they’ll cry and moan about having to pay Bonilla 1 mil per year for the next 20 years…making him out to be the bad guy for the public…meanwhile they are chopping it up over shrimp and lobsters laughing at met fans

Remember we lost Reyes, Beltran and K-Rod and quite possibly Wright and Dickey next.

If anyone agrees with trading Wright or Dickey for rebuilding purposes then those trades should have been made last year so you got a year closer to the eventual payoff of the kids you hope to get.

And when you look at the current holes we have you have to admit most are SELF INFLICTED holes.

What do we need? Go down the list!
Power RHB OFer – Wasn’t that Beltran?
Bullpen/Closer – What did K-Rod do again?
Leadoff/Speed – What did Reyes do for us when he was here?

We went from needing 1 OF to Three in half a season.
And needing Middle relief to an entire pen.

If this FO trades Wright or Dickey you know what we will get? ANother hole to look for in 2014 at 3B or SP.

So if anyone wants to trade either of those guys well the time to do that was last year so you were at least a year closer to the payoff than you will be if you trade them now.

There is only ONE instance of a fire sale ever working to rebuild a team and that was done by the Marlins, All at Once and all those kids they got made thier return to the WS that much faster because they didn’t have to wait for draft picks to go through the entire system.

The way I look at what Sandy has done he has cut salary but got not payroll flexibility from it…
Traded or let go Three All Starsa and only has Wheeler to show for all of that.
Has created more holes than he has solved and now many are proposing to create some more because they don’t think much of those Minor Leaguers that they keep claiming is the way to rebuild this franchise.

As time goes by, I think we’ll understand better that Sandy’s inaction on Reyes was necessitated by limited funds and ownership preferences, and that he brooked the criticism to take heat off the Wilpons.

Everything is relative – if you want to make a stick longer or shorter, find another stick to compare it to… When we compare where we are from this time last year, man, what a difference! Wright is back to being himself, Dickey is through the roof and both preach loyalty to our organization. Tejada & Murphy are settled in at SS & 2nd base, and Ike appears to have found himself. Our rotation is sound, Parnell and Rauch have taken strong steps forward and we’ve appeared to find usable pieces from within our system to supplement our bullpen needs.

Here’s a thought – we know that 2013′s roster will mimic 2012′s to a good extent. Why don’t we attempt to acquire young RH hitting outfield prospects such as the Giants Gary Brown and Toronto’s Jake Marisnick. It may not take much more that Duda & Mejia to acquire one of the two. If it works, great, and if it doesn’t, we’ll have the financial flexibility to resolve our outfield deficits after 2013.

Sandy’s primary task is to provide an improved version of 2012 for next year, much like we experienced up to the All Star break, but over the course of an entire season. He needs to temper our expectations, much like Donnie Walsh, to enhance his credibility while our current roster develops and our financial situation improves. We’re really not that far off. It’s critical that we maintain a positive attitude as we move forward.

Nope what Sandy did was worse! By doing it piecemeal and not all at once, he didn’t get a bunch of near ready prospects (in fact to date he got only one) the way those teams did so thier rebuild is accelerated due to the lack of having to wait for draft picks to develop they would have two waves of youth to promote.

Actually I think when considering the players the Marlins and Red Sox had to move during the fire sales compared to the Mets, its comparing apples and oranges. They had productive players to move that were still performing effectively. The Mets on the other hand did not. I think they did the best they could with what they had to give up. When you have quality players to move, you get quality in return….its that simple. When you have high salaried garbage to move, then your lucky not to get garbage in return.

Reyes’ departure on the other hand was not the result of a fire sale. He was a free agent that the FO chose not to resign. Was that an indirect salary dump? Yes of course it was but he obviously was not in their plans or vision of the future. Obviously most fans want instant results. The state of this team when the FO took over was not even close to making moves that would transform into an instant winner. This FO office has a vision to build a winning team that will be sustainable year after year like the Braves of the 90′s. Its too early to tell whether or not they will be successful. We will start getting better insight to that when

a) we start seeing homegrown prospects performing solidly at the mojor league level and;

b) the FO starts spending again to compliment the young talent

I think by 2014 we will know the answers to these questions and tell whether this whole Alderson, Riccardi, DiPodesta was just a snow job.

For next year’s problems. What we have when we do nothing at all.
1B Davis
2B Murphy
SS Tejada
3B Wright
C Thole
LF Bay/Duda
CF Kirk
RF Baxter
SP Dickey
SP Niese
SP Harvey
SP Santana
SP Gee

Bullpen
Fransisco
Edgin
Parnell
Acosta
Carson
Hefner

Bench
Turner
Bay/Duda
OF #5 (righthanded)
C #2 (righthanded)
IF #2
IF #3

To me Davis, Tejada, Niese and Harvey are not for trade. Those 4 and Gee, Wheeler, Mejia and Familia would make a nice core. I would start Mejia and Familia in AAA so they
can develope as a starter. You can always shift them to the BP. But they and Mchugh are nice arms for injuries.

That would leave Wright and Dickey I would try to trade.

Dickey (and Thole to be his personal catcher) for Marisnick and a young starting pitcher. ( Sanchez, Syndergaard, Nicolino (my pick becasue he is lefthanded) or Norris).
Toronto has SP ( Sanchez, Syndergaard and Norris) coming but not next year. So this means they just need a (great) pitcher
for a year and after 2013 those 3 young arms can take over.

When Wright leaves I would put Flores at 3B. So you can trade Wright for whatever you need. What teams do need 3B help? Braves so the Braves can develop Terdoslavich for 2014.
And I would trade Wright for Bethancourt (Braves got Mccann) and a few cheap and under control arms. And if it would take $$ on Wright’s contract to get the best possible deal
I would also do that.

So depending on how much money you have to pay the Braves for the best possible trade you could have the buyouts from Bay and Santana and Dickey’s option. That’s 13 MM.you can save.
You already have $51 million (Santana 25.5, Bay 16, Francisco 6.5, Niese 3). So assume you got to pay Wright $ 9 million that would leave $ 30 million when having a $ 90 million
payroll. I would never give up my 1st round pick to sign any free agent but for that $ 30 Million you can trade a lot. Or pick up a lot of guys on a 1 year deal to fix the holes you
have after trading Wright and Dickey (and Thole). 2 catchers and perhaps a 3rd baseman (perhaps Murphy and get a proven 2nd baseman)?

So far we have for 2014
1B Davis
2B Murphy
SS Tejada
3B Flores
C Bethancourt
LF Duda
CF Kirk
RF Marisnick
SP Harvey
SP Niese
SP Gee
SP Wheeler
SP Nicolino
CL Mejia
SU Familia
BP Edgin
BP Parnell
BP Carson

Perhaps Duda can figure it out in 2013 to play LF. If not, well the money is there.
When Mejia and/or Familia can make it as starter you got a nice little extra to trade next winter.

And what about getting Ike to sign a long term (team friendly) contract like they did with Niese last winter?

However, it doesn’t make sense for ownership to force the current FO into a major rebuilding ( btw, even if it’s never been announced officially, this team basically has essentially been rebuilding over the past couple of years, just not in terms of tearing everything down at once) as it’s in their own interest to have a profitable and good product on the field.

Thus, unless RA and Wright expect to be overcompensated for being patient until there’s plenty of payroll flexibility for 2014 again, I expect both to sign extensions by November. Not only to make sure you have a core group of players under control but also from a PR standpoint.
My guess:
On top of Wright’s 2013 option at 16 million $ he gets another 2 years at 20 million, plus 4 more years of 22 million to make it something like 7-years, 144 million overall.
RA on top of the 2013 option should get 17 million for both 2014 and 2015 and maybe an option for 2016 at 17 or a 1 million $ buyout to make it 40 to 56 million overall.

As for 2013, the front office will need to be creative. However, while I don’t see Niese, Harvey, Wheeler and Tejada getting traded, Ike may well be if ist gets another power bat ( Reddick ?) back. Likewise, young players such as Mejia, McHugh, Nieuwenhuis, W. Flores or Valdespin could all get moved for other young players who fit in better.

Also, one may get creative with the Bay contract – like sending him to Seattle for strong defensive CF Franklin Gutierrez (6 million in 2013) and UT player Chone Figgins (9,5 million) and throwing in a young player or two with upside to make ist worthwhile for SEA.

All in all, 2013 will be about finally coming up with a homegrown bullpen and turning the rotation into an asset while at the same time shooting for .500 while hoping for 85 wins in 2013 and then being able to spend for 2014 with a goal of 90 wins.

But I see a lot of people holding Wheeler and Harvey untouchable but can’t wait to get rid of Wright Dickey Ike or Niese…

Well there really is no point in keeping any of them if you intend to trade those guys Wheeler and Harvey are not enough on thier own to win ballgames!

And trading a Flores (IF) for a similar hitting kid in the OF is not a hard deal to make provided the team who needs IF also has a glut of OF!

Nope what Sandy did was worse! By doing it piecemeal and not all at once, he didn’t get a bunch of near ready prospects (in fact to date he got only one) the way those teams did so thier rebuild is accelerated due to the lack of having to wait for draft picks to develop they would have two waves of youth to promote.

One thing I never thought this front office would do would be to make a deal to accommodate the fans until I remembered Sandy’s “good day” last winter.

Have to disagree with you about Sandy Alderson understanding what it takes to implement long-term success other than in terms of business. I think he better grasps what fans want to hear and knows how to use that to sidetrack from the reality of the situation.

Too many in MMO who believed Sandy was being honest about his focus being on what was best for the team now concede his focus was what was good for the ownership. Bud Selig always refers to the Wilpons and them being financial victims when talking about why he urged Sandy Alderson to apply and take the job.

It’s important that the organization does not fall prey to panic moves to accommodate the fan base. We can be competitive next year without altering the roster to a great extent. Sandy will have much more financial flexibility after 2013, so patience is in order. Wright and Dickey certainly should receive new contracts that do not constrain the organization next year.

SP Pool – Dickey, Harvey, Niese, Gee, Santana, Pelfrey, Wheeler, Familia, Mejia, Hefner

Relief Pool – Francisco, Parnell, Rauch, E. Ramirez, Familia, Mejia, Edgin, Carson, Hefner

Infield – Wright, Tejada, Murphy, Davis

Outfield Pool – Duda, Baxter, Niewenhuis, Hairston (?)

Bench Pool – Turner, Baxter, Thole, Cedeno

Catchers – Thole, ShoppachGenerally, we have fewer question marks going into next year as we did last off season. The organization is no longer under the filthy cloud cast by the Madoff scandal. The team’s financial state is stable, if not healthy just yet. Clearly, we are a year away from true financial flexibility.

Our starting pitching and bullpen are more stable than this time last year. We have a much better idea of what we have and what we need, which is very little in this arena. I loved theway his situation was handled mid-season & wish Duda’s situation was handled similarly.

Our infield is very solid. DW and Tejada both had full, healthy seasons. Murphy settled in a 2nd base, worked through 2 slumps and finished strong in the field and at the plate, notwithstanding his subpar series against Miami. One would expect Ike to be pick up from where he left off, and likely hit for a higher average next season.

The outfield and catching positions are truly substandard and that’s where Sandy needs to earn his salary. We could spin trade possibilities until the cows come home – let’s see what he does. It might be interesting.

I regard Terry Collins as a positive influence in this respect. He knows all of the ball players, and they appear to like and respect him. I truly hope the coaches drop an organizational philosophy when it comes to hitting. Let Tejada work the count, but please let Duda attack early and often. None of us can stomach another season of watching fastballs zip over the middle of the plate while a slugger passively looks on.

I think Alderson is learning to trust Met fans a little more. He’s not quite a cryptic when he speaks and he understands Met fans will tolerate growing pains, as long as we’re…growing. He’ll never be Donnie Walsh, but he appears to grasp and implement the imperatives for long-term success.

Either way, 2013 is a wash. We must all recognized that. So, that means 2014 is our new goal. Well, by then Dickey surely won’t be the same force he is now. Also, his value will never be this high. So, knowing this, Sandy must trade him for the help at catcher or in the outfield that this team absolutely needs to compete in 2014.

David is different. He’s the franchise presently. Our Seaver. Also, he will be productive still when the Mets are legitimately looking to compete for a division in 2014. He must be signed.
Don’t think they haven’t thought about this very scenario. They have and I think this is the quickest and most coat affective way to move forward while also keeping the fans somewhat happy in the short term.

Remember, they have the depth to survive without Dickey. In ’14, he’ll be nearly 40 and considering what they’ve already paid him, what he’s produced for that cash, and what he could get then via a trade…he is very much the greatest player to come into this franchise in the last five years.

Since I was referring to Sandy from the beginning , that includes Beltran, KRod and not re-signing Reyes along with little brushfire sales like not re-signing Chris Capuano (whom Sandy liked but I didn’t). IF – and I mean IF – Sandy was true to his word when he said the money spent on these three would be used to spread out among a lot more others in 2012 – then I would believe they were baseball decisions and not those of cost cutting (i.e., fire sale).

Remember, when he came on board Sandy said it wasn’t the payroll itself as it was how the payroll was un-proportionately centered on just a few players whereas the same resources could be put to better use by acquiring many more good and less expensive players instead. But that was not the case – the money no longer being paid to those three players in 2011 was not used for anything going into 2012 but to reduce payroll.

The spin during the winter of 2010/11 to justify these possible upcoming moves was that by the club no longer retaining these few players we could in return use that savings to invest in even more players in return was for public consumption only.

Why else would others already be preparing themselves for the departures of Wright and Dickey if not for the experiences of the past?