Mets Ticket Prices, Economics 101, Schmucks and Agendas

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• Old School Mets Fan October 13, 2012 at 11:35 am

  This is pretty simple. The management/owners have decided to stop spending money and it seems pretty clear the reason is they are broke. The result has been a gradual decline over the last three years and its pretty clear the payroll this year will drop into the bottom half.

  So given the lack of investment over the last three years, it does seem an inopportune time to raise ticket prices because people will be spending more money on a product that may very well be inferior to last year’s product. Totally the Wilpons right to do so, but don’t expect people to like it or to question its wisdom. It doesn’t take an MBA to figure that out.

  As for what the Wilpons “deserve”? Through mismanagement and bad luck they own a baseball team that they simply don’t have the resources to support. You want to own a baseball team in NYC? Prepare for major heat if you can’t field a competitive team. 2013 will likely be the 5th consecutive losing season. Our crosstown rivals haven’t had a losing season in over 20 years and have only missed the playoffs once in the last 19 years. Fair or not, that is the standard they are judged against.
  • srt October 13, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Agree with your first paragraph.
    Not investing in the team and just crossing their fingers the Mets are going to hit magic with some of the fringe players they’re rolling with is a long shot.
• srt October 13, 2012 at 11:49 am

  Those that read here often enough know my opinion on all things Wilpons.

  But fraudulent and toothless? Come on, both of those are a little over the top, IMO.
  Clueless? Well yeah, I can get behind that description.

  If my circumstances were different, I know I would regularly attend some dozen Met games a year at Citi Field. Might not be the seats I’d want but I’m not one who would join that ban march they’re advocating. I watch just about all games on SNY and occasionally buy merchandise. I guess that makes me a schmuck, huh?

  People like Mr. Healey need stop telling me how or how not to spend my money.
  Then again, I’ve got no problem telling the Mets how they ought to be spending their money.

  BTW, the link to Megdal’s article just takes me back here to MMO.
  • Joe D October 13, 2012 at 11:58 am

    BTW, the link to Megdal’s article just takes me back here to MMO.

    Yes, that was part of my insidious plan to force Megdal’s followers right back to MMO like a dream sequence straight from the Outer Limits. There’s no escaping MMO. Readers check in, but they can’t check out. LOL, only kidding, it’s fixed now.
    • srt October 13, 2012 at 12:17 pm

      LOL. Thanks.
    • Heybatter October 13, 2012 at 2:37 pm

      Oh they can check out, they can just never leave.
• Matt October 13, 2012 at 11:57 am

  Have fun at the games. I know I’m not going until they put a real 25-man roster of major league players on the field. They did not do that last year or in 2011. You can waste your money, I’m not.
• Frank October 13, 2012 at 12:01 pm

  People accuse the Yankees fans of being bandwagon fans, but the evidence suggests that the Mets fans are baseball worst band wagoners. They only support the team in good times which in the Mets case means 10% of the time. That’s not being a fan.
  • Hodges14 October 13, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Lets not get carried away. You’re way off base pal.
  • Hawk October 13, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    I watch every game on television, I bought multiple, personalized, uniform shirts, and caps but driving from Hopatcong, NJ, paying tolls, parking, seats, and
    such is a totally different investment in time and money, for a team that after the ASG was hardly competitive.
    • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:08 pm

      Hawk not saying your wrong about not going but I just want to point out something here…

      Do you know how much the Mets make in revenue if only 1 person watches on TV?
      The same exact amount as they make if 10 Million people watch the game!

      It’s a set amount of money no matter how many people watch so your not really contributing to the Met Finances by watching on TV, Just the finances of the station broadcasting the game.

      Granted it’s not worth it to pay the high cost of going to the game you can see much cheaper on TV.
      But by taking the TV option you have to understand or at least admit your not really supporting the team as much as you would if you went in person.

      I agree with your statement it wasn’t worth going once Sandy threw in the towel.
      But I can’t say making that decision is still supporting the team as much as those who went and suffered through it in person.
      • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:01 pm

        advertising prices are set on ratings and attendance…

        in other words…the mets cant charge company X outragous prices for tv spots or ads in citifield if they are not drawing huge crowds
        • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 2:00 am

          Again mishing and Mashing businesses because you don’t actually own one…

          First off it doesn’t matter what the ratings on SNY are the Mets get the same amount from SNY no matter if there is one viewer or a million.

          All the METS get from SNY is the rights fee to broadcast! Thats all the TV money they get! All the advertising goes to SNY itself, some actually goes to the Wilpons but it’s THEIR money not MET MONEY!
• Mr North Jersey October 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm

  “I’m not stopping any of you or mocking any of you for doing whatever it is that pleases you, but please grant those of us who disagree with you that same courtesy.”

  This
• Hodges14 October 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm

  Megdal needs to stop this daily assault already. Go suck an egg Howie.
• Old School Mets Fan October 13, 2012 at 12:16 pm

  I have followed this team since 1973. If people had not stopped going then, the deRoulets would still own the team. They realized they could not afford the team, did the proper thing and sold it.

  As for loyalty, 2 million people (including me and my son) attended a Mets game last year knowing they would very likely finish .500. Mets have a very loyal fan base. But at some point is that loyalty simply enabling impoverished/inept management?
  • alan October 14, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Whoaaa…..the reason that the team was sold was because the deRoulet family did not know anything at all about baseball and were not fans like Joan Payson was. It has been emphatically pointed out that had Gil Hodges and Mrs. Payson had not died, that M. Donald Grant would never been allowed to screw up like he did. The family still had lots of money but no interest in the game itself. The Doubleday/Wilpon purchase was more of a heist. I think the Indians got more for Manhattan!
• Tommy2cat October 13, 2012 at 12:20 pm

  The ticket prices at Citi Field have always been exorbitant, but that does not necessarily correlate with fan attendance.

  Rather, fan attendance more likely correlates with the team’s performance on the field.

  On the other hand, the team’s performance on the field does not necessarily correlate with the financial viability of the organization that runs it. Oddly, in the case of the Mets, the owner’s financial constraints have caused a necessary purging of bad contracts and a greater reliance on developing players through a viable farm system. In other words, the Wilpons don’t have enough money right now to do something stupid. Circumstances compelled them into fiscal responsibility.

  We are currently experiencing healthy growth pains in that direction that, we hope, will translate into a better product on the field. I believe that a correlation exits between the Wilpons’ non-involvement in baseball decisions and the healthy overall development of the NY Met organization. At best, it’s a back-handed compliment.

  I’ll be happy to spend the time and money to see the Mets play at Citi Field when the team straightens out the product on the field and supported by a healthy, developing farm system.
  • Mark Healey October 16, 2012 at 7:30 am

    The Doubleday / Will;on purchase? Hardly. It was a Doubleday purchase. Fred Wilpon put up about 500,000 dollars, Saul Katz oput up the other 500,000…Doubleday put up 20 million.
  • Just_Da_Damaja October 16, 2012 at 8:30 am

    There is fiscal responsibility…

    and there is being cheap…

    u cant give contracts to Frank Francisco 6 mil…Mike Pelfrey 5 mil …Jon Rauch 3.5 mil…Andres Torres 3 mil…

    Lil known fact…

    For 3 seasons straight Pelfrey has been pitching with a bum shoulder…they KNEW going into the season that he was a huge injury risk…AND STILL did not non-tender him…or trade him…nada…

    all this in the same year Jose Reyes is making 10 mil…

    We all saw the writing on the wall with Reyes when Sandy Alderson came in yapping about how important it was for Jose Reyes to increase his OBP and plate patience if he wanted a contract…

    Well Reyes in 2007 led ALL MLB SS IN WALKS…and was top 3 in 2008…and #1 again in 2011….

    not even a peep of an offer…

    fact is…Sandy does not specialize in WINNING without a budget..

    6 straight years of below .500 ball..
    1981 Oakland Athletics American League 64 45 .587 - 1,304,052
    1982 Oakland Athletics American League 68 94 .420 25.0 5 1,735,489
    1983 Oakland Athletics American League 74 88 .457 25.0 4 1,294,941
    1984 Oakland Athletics American League 77 85 .475 7.0 4 1,353,281
    1985 Oakland Athletics American League 77 85 .475 14.0 4 1,334,599
    1986 Oakland Athletics American League 76 86 .469 16.0 3 1,314,646
    1987 Oakland Athletics American League 81 81 .500 4.0 3 1,678,921

    The Glory Years = the highest payrolls in baseball
    1988 Oakland Athletics American League 104 58 .642 - 1 2,287,335
    1989 Oakland Athletics American League 99 63 .611 - 1 2,667,225
    1990 Oakland Athletics American League 103 59 .636 - 1 2,900,217
    1991 Oakland Athletics American League 84 78 .519 11.0 4 2,713,493
    1992 Oakland Athletics American League 96 66 .593 - 1 2,494,160

    The bottom drops out…in 1995…sandy starts using sabermetric principles
    1993 Oakland Athletics American League 68 94 .420 26.0 7 2,035,025
    1994 Oakland Athletics American League 51 63 .447 1.0 2 1,242,692
    1995 Oakland Athletics American League 67 77 .465 11.5 4 1,174,310
    1996 Oakland Athletics American League 78 84 .481 12.0 3 1,148,380
    1997 Oakland Athletics American League 65 97 .401 25.0 4 1,264,218

    Mets

    2011 – 77-85
    2012 – 74 -88

    In 18 years as a General Manager…Sandy’s teams finished with more than 81 wins only 6 times…

    and in those 6 times…his team had the highest payroll in baseball in 1991…and a top 5 payroll in 1992…his 1988-1990 years were NOT built on sabermetrics….it was old-fashioned scouting…great management in Tony Larussa…getting top talent draft picks…in McGuire and Walt Weiss…and a cheater in Jose Canseco…

    This is my long-winded way of saying….Sandy Alderson’s sabermetric reputation is far over-blown…
    • Joey D. October 16, 2012 at 9:43 am

      Hi Just,

      As many of us said – he’s has and still is the business end of the organizations he has worked for but because he has become a symbol of achievement for many who are into money ball and/or saber metrics and I think they do not want to acknowedge what they thought of him was more a myth than anything else. I do believe as he got more authority in the day to day matters of player personnel he began insisting those below him utilize advanced statistical analysis and we see where that has gotten Oakland, San Diego and the Mets.
• Brian October 13, 2012 at 12:22 pm

  To many of us, the inferior product on the field is inextricably linked to the incompetence of the people in the owner’s box. In the 26 years since the Wilson/Katz family assumed at least 50 percent ownership, the team has one two measly division titles and one NL pennant while developing exactly no front line pitching and maybe two or three all star caliber players.

  Until the latter is removed, the inferior product will remain. Hope and pray is not a team building strategy. I have gone from being a Sunday plan holder to going maybe once a year even as.my salary has increased since 2000. The first red flag for me was the A-rod debacle.

  If the current plan is no free agents and building from within, then how do you have the brass not to sign half of your draft picks? Why? Because that stuff flies under the radar and ownership is not held to account for it.

  The Wilpons can raise prices. And I can continue to refuse being a customer. It seems to me that more people are becoming former customers too.

  The saddest part is that the Wilpons have ceded a generation of baseball fans to the Yankees and eve the Phillies as far north as Somerset County, NJ. I don’t have a reason to tell my sons anything that would sell them on the Mets.
  • Tommy2cat October 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Well-stated. You hit the nail on the head. Wouldn’t change one word – you could not have laid-out the NY Met fan dilemma more succinctly.
• Fred October 13, 2012 at 12:37 pm

  I went to a game for the first time in two years. I opted for the “cheap seats” in a meaningless September game – the cheapest price? $30. I won’t be back for a while.
  • srt October 13, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Meanwhile, I know someone who scored 2 tickets for the NLDS in game 4 in D.C. for $25 a piece and 2 tickets for last night’s game for $35 a piece.
  • Alan October 15, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I just wanted to make a couple of comments here. I have been a lifelong Mets fan since they won the World Series in 1969 when I was in kindergarten. My wife (then my girlfriend) went to about 60 games in 1986 (ticket prices were $10/ea), and we scored a pair of $40/ea tickets to Game 6 of the World Series for $65/ea. We had season tickets from 1988 until we just gave them up after the 1st year of CitiField. I made a stupid decision to buy tickets for inaugural year at CitiField even though the price had doubled. I was also in this to go to 20-30 games/year, and would sell all the remaining tickets to my friends for face value. I never had to “eat” more than 1 or 2 games/year.. The first year at CitiField I took a bath. Selling $730 worth of tickets (4 tickets at face value), for $150 total. That was enough.

    When the Mets played the 2000 season, my seats (same appx. location as my debacle at CitiField) cost $38.00 seat. By the time we got to the first year at CitiField, the tickets were now $150/seat. I think the WIlpons totally dissed their fans. This is a baseball game. It’s not supposed to cost $600-$1000 to go to a single baseball game. That’s why attendence keeps dropping. So now the tickets cost maybe around the same price as the last year in Shea Stadium. But those prices had almost doubled in 4 years. Something is wrong with this model. As a kid tickets were $4.50 for box seats, $2.50 for reserved seats, and $1.50 for bleachers, and it was like this for years.

    Look at the Yankees, they have loads of empty seats all the time too, with the $1250 seats, that used to cost $10 just 22-25 years ago. That doesn’t look like inflation adjusted to me. If the Wilpons wanna put fans back in the seats, make it reasonable to come to the games, and put a quality product on the field. In the edge of inexpensive hi-def tv’s, why would anyone want to spend so much money to go to a game, when there are 81 of them (at home) each year. At least in Football, there are only 8 games. Just my .02.
    • Joey D. October 15, 2012 at 3:36 pm

      HI Alan,

      “I think the WIlpons totally dissed their fans”

      Amen to that. That is why a lot of us won’t go to see a Met game anymore. It’s the attitude of the ownership as reflected in the lack of concern for the average fan, let alone those who were able to afford season tickets in the past.

      We all understand prices go up but there are enough of us to see when ownership is trying to max that profit by strangle holding the fan base. BTW – looking at photos from the upper decks right past third base in St. Louis, Cincinnati, Philadelphia and San Diego, those in the “cheap seats” can actually see all of left field. The reason? The Wilpons wanted to give patrons at that expensive and exclusive restaurant a better view of the field at the expense of all the fans above.

      That’s another way of “dissing” a good portion of the fan base.
• Metsie October 13, 2012 at 12:40 pm

  “Attendance dropped from 3.16 million in 2009 to 2.56 million in 2010″

  Of course it dropped! 2009 attendance was inflated due to the curiosity factor of a new stadium. Just as 2008 Attendance was inflated (and was the highest in history) due to people going to see one last game at Shea before they tore it down.

  Not even a World Series winning team would have repeated what happened in 2008 and 2009 as far as attendance is concerned.

  RE: Ticket Prices
  They lost money last year and are running out of Salary to dump. Sure they could purge Wright and Dickey from the payroll but that just means they lose more attendance. Other than getting more people to attend, what were they supposed to do here?
  It should be noted they are rewarding those who have stood by them, remained loyal, and continued to buy season tickets in 2012. Those who were 2012 Season Ticket holders will see NO INCREASE!

  The only issue with this policy is it tends to hurt the lower income fan who couldn’t afford season tickets even if they wanted to buy them and as a result of higher prices these folks who may even represent the majority of Met fans will buy fewer tickets.

  RE Boycotts – Well you have every right to not go but if you do make that decision then you pretty much have no right to complain about how much the team spends. You are the reason they are not spending not Madoff or the cheapness of the Wilpons. To Blame them is just scapegoating someone else for the financial difficulties your lack of attendance caused.
  No one should force you to pay to see this team as it is, but by the same token no one should be forced to money into making a better team you yourself are not willing to subsidize.

  To them I say Fine! Don’t go! But please just shut up about how much they spent, are spending, will spend, Madoff, Wilpon Finances, and prices of tickets that you wouldn’t buy even BEFORE the prices went up!

  Part of the increase here is that they expect a lot of ONE YEAR purchases to be made due to the fact they will get first crack at buying All Star Game tickets for doing so. Many who buy these packages will very likely give them up at the end of the year. Expect to see more ticket sales from corporations this year because of this but despite the sale a lot of empty seats for regular games. These coporations wil probably dump the tickets the following year unless the economy has some drastic recovery in 2013.

  I would even bet they will reduce ticket prices again for 2014 after the ASG is gone. Because they have tried everything they could try to get people to show up and fix the finances.
  Tried cutting about all they could cut from payroll and overhead.

  Done everything but market the team in the one way that ALWAYS works in regards to ticket sales…Get a player who gives hope and draws fans to the stands!
  • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Winning teams draws crowds…

    if anything trying to get brand names is the one tried way they have always created disasters…

    1992 – Bonilla, Saberhagen, Coleman, Murray …4 brand names…resulted in abysmal record and attendance…

    1995 – Generation K…rushed 3 great kids…epic disaster..abysmal attendance…

    1998-2001 – they got a great team…with just 1 brand name….good attendance….

    2002-2003 – back to the brand names again…Alomar…Vaugn…Burnitz….abysmal attendance

    2004 – blah

    2005 – Pedro/Beltran – brand names ( that perform ) – better attendance

    2006 – Delgado, Wagner, Loduca, Pedro, Beltran – brand names ( that perform ) – better attend

    2007 – Riding off the 2006 playoff high…better attendance

    2008 – Last year in Shea + Johan = better attendance

    2009 – poor record….curioisty for Citifield = negative attendance

    2010 – poor record – poor attendance

    2011 – poor record – poor attendance

    2012 – poor record – poor attendance

    i think i see a trend here :-_
    • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 1:39 pm

      86 – Hernandez, Carter, Knight!

      2006 – Beltran, Martinez, Delgado!

      1977-1980 No Stars mostly AAA promotions worst team in baseball!

      Now shall we go onto list the Yankees who play in the same market as us and therefore have no advantage over us that they might have on the rest of the league?

      1995 – Stanley, Fernandez, Polonia, O’Niel, McDowel, Cone and Wettland

      17 out of 18 years later, Playoffs, 7 WS appearances, 15 ALCS
      2012 – Texiera, A-Rod, Granderson, Ibanez, Swisher, Jones, Kuroda, and Sabathia!

      Feel free to list all the years in between….
      • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:44 pm

        They got Hernandez in 1983…
        They got Carter in 1985…

        Plus they had Doc and Straw = the main attraction

        Attendance didnt fly back up until they won….

        when i wanna see stars…i go to the movies…

        when i wanna see a team win…i ( used to ) go see the mets

        thats the difference…

        i dont give a flyin f*ck about the name on the back of the uniform…maybe i did when i was 11…but im alot older…and seeing nice names that had good careers 10 years ago doesnt cut it for me anymore…I want to see a winner…thats it…thats all..

        I dont care if they are white, latin, asian, indian…I dont care if the uniforms says Los on it…or if they are kelly green….i dont care if the players can speak English, Spanish or Hindu….

        I go to the game to see my team WIN

        if they dont win…and I see ownership putting something else besides winning as top priority

        I shift my priorities ( and my money ) somewhere else
        • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm

          So what? Whatdifference doesit make WHEN they got them they don’t win a damn thing without them now do they?

          Do the Nats still have a hope of the WS without Werth hitting that HR yesterday?

          They signed him mlast year does that mean spending on him didn’t contribute to this season and doesn’t count?
          • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:11 pm

            And just to be clear I have no problem with y shifting your money someplace else…
            Just dont blame someone else for the financial situation you caused by refusing to go!
            • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 2:16 pm

              Wait…the mets are in financial trouble b/c we refused to go their games???

              http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/attend.shtml

              Dave Howard…is that you???
              • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:34 pm

                Did they make money this year?
                NO!

                Why?
                Please note how much money Madoff and Loans cost them in profits….
                • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:04 pm

                  well when u let go of reyes, beltran…then trade pagan so u can get 2 for 1…

                  u end up with a product people dont want to see…
      • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 5:17 pm

        LMAO

        The Yanks in 1990 – many stars…poor record…poor attendance !
        4 years later
        The Yanks in 1994 – many stars, BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL…better attendance!!!

        4 years later

        1998 – many stars…BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL….great attendance !!!

        In NY, ur record and ur attendance go hand in hand…

        poor record…poor attendance
        • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 5:36 pm

          The Yanks in 1994 – many stars, BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL

          And wouldn’t have if not for all the STARS!

          This is the point you guys seem to skip over!

          Without the stars there are no wins!
          • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:06 pm

            but as my mets ( and this years marlins ) have proven time and time again…

            u can have the stars AND STILL LOSE…

            and im not talking 2007/2008 type of losing…

            Im talking 1992-1993-2002-2003-2009 type of losing
            • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 1:55 am

              And then there are the Yankees!

              They have stars EVERY year and win every year!
              How much do they lose every year due to high spending?

              Sure you can have stars and lose just buy the wrong stars!

              BTW did the Marlins lose money and need to get a loan to pay the bills this year?

              Tell me why they didn’t?
    • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm

      oh I forgot to mention….
      “Winning teams draws crowds…”

      NY Mets – 74-88 2.24M in attendance
      Oakland – 94-68 1.68M in attendance

      So much for that theory!
      • Donal October 13, 2012 at 3:32 pm

        What was Oakland’s record last year? What kind of market is Oakland?
        • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 4:03 pm

          Last Year? 74-88 same as us this year!

          Market is irrelevant if you think WInning draws fans…

          You win you fill the stadium thats what you keep saying!
          • Donal October 13, 2012 at 4:18 pm

            No, if you are flat out counting heads, market is a huge factor.

            You may not know this, but the New York Metro area is slightly more populated than Oakland. And a lot nicer.
            • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm

              Oh please it has nothing to do with how many people live in a certain area
              The only difference is what percentage of the population it is in the end…The Stadium is a constant it hold x amount of people…

              If what you say is true and winning is what draw people then winning will pack the stadium which holds less than 1% of thier total population!
              You forget San Fran is right across the bay!
              • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 5:21 pm

                lmao

                so population size has nothing to do with poor attendance ?

                lol

                ok
                • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 5:37 pm

                  No more than living in a big market guarantees HIGH attendance!

                  We live in the biggest market in the world yet not enough people come to pay the bills!

                  You think Winning has something to do with it but the A’s made the playoffs and it sure hasn’t helped them has it?
                  • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:08 pm

                    care to explain why the yankees drew 1.5 MILLION MORE FANS than us ( DESPITE CHEAPER TICKETS ) ??

                    I guess Yankee fans were not hurt by the economy like met fans were !
                  • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 1:51 am

                    What was the AllStar ratio between them and us?
                    That explains it all!
• stick October 13, 2012 at 12:50 pm

  not fair to say they don’t spend money. No, payroll is not as high as it was for a few years, but they are still spending in the top 1/2 of MLB, and actually had a higher this year than Washington or Atlanta, the cream of the division. Not signing new contracts does not mean they aren’t writing checks, just that the money was pre-spent a few years ago!

  if the reality of the market means the Mets can only support~100mill payroll for now, then that is what the FO will be given to work with. Same as the other teams they compete with that don’t have unlimited budgets.
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    No one seems to be complaining that the owners for the Braves, Reds,Orioles and Nats can’t afford the team they have despite the fact they have lower payrolls than we do!

    Nats are said to have given one of the worst contracts in baseball to Werth…

    I bet after yesterday Nat fans would probably disagree with that!
    • stick October 13, 2012 at 1:33 pm

      But the Wilpons can afford a team at this payroll from what has been reported. So why not complain that the Braves owners can’t spend 50mill more per year too, just to be fair? If the Wilpons need to sell because they can’t spend more, what about every other team that spends less on payroll?
      • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:00 pm

        Exactly!

        Even if we accept the stipulation here that Wilpon set the budget as low as it is….

        It’s still more than other PLAYOFF teams spend and who determined HOW it was spent?

        It wasn’t Wilpon who INSISTED Sandy give Francisco a 6 Mil per contract. It wasn’t Wilpon who decided he was worth having.
        It wasn’t Wilpon who decided Bay and Santana were worth what they are getting nor was he the guy who set the price on Perez and Castillo….

        Did Omar leave Sandy with some bad contracts? Sure did! But he also left him with some good contracts as well!
        And the issue here is Sandy purged the WRONG contracts.
        He let all the GOOD ones go, got little to nothing nback for them and still has the bad ones taking up roster space!

        If Sandy had found a way to get rid of the bad contracts to reduce the payroll we would not be talking about affording Wright’s extention right now. We would not be talking about not having enough money to spend.
        He cut off his nose and spite his performance and added more BAD contracts to the roster…
        So now where the percentage of good contracts to bad contracts was around 66% good to 33% BAD it has now flipped to 66% bad and 33% good and if things don’t go so well and Wright and Dickey leaves we could find that ratio jump to 100% bad 0% good!

        For 12 Mil he could have re-signed Beltran and maybe July and August become .500 or better months. Attendance would continue to climb and they don’t lose more money.

        Thats about the amount he spent on a Bullpen that failed for most of the season and didn’t succeed until the playoffs were out of reach.

        Thats why I suggested in another thread to forget the Bullpen and Catcher this year…
        Fix the pen with kids from within, take the money we would spend there and buy a RH Power bat to help Wright and Davis.

        It may not be enough to get to the playoffs on it’s own but it might just be enough once Wheeler takes a spot in the rotation to draw enough fans to have money to spend on more OF or a Catcher the following year when Bay and Santana are finally gone.

        I would have traded Santana at the All Star break and suggested it but got slammed all because of the euphoria of one No Hitter.
• Matt October 13, 2012 at 1:22 pm

  I’ve been to plenty of Mets games when the team stunk. Difference is that right now the owners are fielding a team with 4 or 5 triple A players. They are going cheap so they can retain ownership. I’m not going to support that. I understand the feelings of those that want to. But those of us that won’t go aren’t “fairweather”…we just won’t support what the ownership is doing. They REFUSE to field a 25 man roster of major league talent. If and when they do that, I will go again.
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Who traded those All stars in favor of AAA and AAAA talent?
    Wilpon? Or the GM?

    Who has signed more AAAA players to contracts? Wilpon? Or the GM?

    Like I said above, everyone seems to credit Sandy for getting Wheeler but when it comes to all the bad moves made they divert thier anger to Wilpon instead….

    Cashen and Phillips gets all the credit for 86 and 2000….every other season is the Wilpon’s fault…

    Why should they care about people who choose to blame them for all the bad and never credit them when things go good?
    • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:49 pm

      Actually it was Fred Wilpon that was behind the Kevin Mitchell trade…

      it was Fred Wilpon that dictated what would happen with Billy Wagner…

      instead of letting the season play and offering arb…

      the sox paid his 1 mil salary, offered arb and got 2 draft picks better than the scrubs they gave us…

      that was Fred Wilpons fault…

      and Billy wagner spoke in detail about it ( thanking fred ) in 2010 spring training

      Fred has and continues to fawk our franchise in the 2 hole
      • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:16 pm

        You mean they did afavor for a player who had done right by them but had no room to contribute anymore?

        Hmmm sound very different from the EVIL WILPONS who treat thier players like crap now doesn’t it?
        • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 5:27 pm

          Exactly what difference would it have made to Billy Wagner?

          He went to Boston to be a SET UP MAN…

          Boston then offered him ARBITRATION

          Wagner then went to ATLANTA

          Wagner said he had no problem being K-Rod’s setup man…

          he had to waive his no-trade clause…which Fred Wilpon convinced him to do…so Freddy Coupons can save 1 million dollars

          Not sure where in this story does Freddy save Billy’s kid from that burning building…but all i got out of it was this…

          instead of doing what was best for the TEAM…Freddy was looking for any and every way to SAVE MONEY

          Then Fred has the NERVE to say he did not intefere with the GM in his 30 years of being an owner…
          • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 5:40 pm

            Exactly what difference did the 1 Million have to a guy who just took on K-Rods salary…

            Thats the problem with Hatred it has little to no need for reason…It’s just blame because I hate them and that is all that matters!

            If he was worried about money he wouldn’t have let Omar get K-Rod in the first place…or Bay a year later would he?

            So much for the cheapness factor!
            • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 5:45 pm

              So taking less prospects so u can save a million bucks isnt being cheap???

              all the mets had to do was hang on to wagner…offer arbitration….and get ATL’s 1st round PLUS a supplementary pick…
• Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:29 pm

  The Wilpons have every right to raise prices…

  And I have every right NOT TO GO and financially support them

  
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Yes you do…But having made that decision what you are doing is giving up he right to complain about the lack of money to keep or get players that are good and worth seeing.

    Who is really going to suffer as a result of your decision?

    The Mets? Hardly they could easily become the Pirates, never spend and turn a profit eventually.

    You will lose by having to become a Yankee fan to see winning baseball!
    • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:51 pm

      actually the LEAGUE does not benefit from carrying a franchise that plays in a 12 million customer market…

      the small market clubs DEPEND on the big market clubs to subsidize them…NOT the other way around…

      so yes…me not going will speed up the process of the league forcing the wilpons to sell

      and Sandy coming over is proof positive that it may be coming sooner than later

      Unless u think its a total coincidence Sandy appeared in San Diego in 2005-2009 and they sold their team less than 18 months later
      • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:21 pm

        “so yes…me not going will speed up the process of the league forcing the wilpons to sell”

        Keep dreaming dude!

        As long as the Wilpons keep paying the bills there is no way the league can strip them of ownership unless they do something against league rules…

        There are no league rules that say a big market team has to have a big market payroll!
        In fact most league rules are set to encourage the opposite!

        If the Wilpons ran this team like the Pirates they wouldn’t take the team away from them they would appluad them as the poster boys of what the rest of the big market teams should be more like!

        Why do you think there are slot guidelines and a Luxury tax in the first place?
        To encourage Big Market teams to spend a lot so the small market teams can get a subsidy?
        • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 5:49 pm

          well the wilpons were banking on madoff money to pay off those deferred contracts…and the interest from some of their loans..

          is there any reason why Sandy counts Johan + Bay’s salary against the 2013 payroll…but not

          Saberhagen
          Bonilla
          Beltran
          Martinez
          Glavine
          • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 2:02 am

            Yes because Bay and Santana’s money comes out of Met accounts and the others come out of the accounts of the deferred investment which are not monies the Mets themselves have to pay!

            Dude take a course on business please!
    • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 2:08 pm

      Who’s decision was it to give deferred contracts tied to Bernie Madoff to

      Saberhagen:1995
      Bonilla:2000
      Glavine:2002 – http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2438124
      Martinez:2004
      Beltran:2004
      Santana:2007

      So yeah…the wilpons have screwed up their own financial flexibility….

      some of those deferred payments come with interest rates from 8-6% !!!!

      8-6 % on millions is ALOT of MONEY…

      not only do u owe the PRINCIPLE…but u also OWE the interest u agreed upon…

      I wonder why they are NOT mentioning that they are CURRENTLY paying almost 10 former ex-mets in deferred contracts…across 3 different GM’s….( joe mac, steve, omar ) contracts signed from 1995-2007…

      the one common denominator = Fred Wilpon
      • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm

        Its estimated that the mets will be paying around 20 mil in deferred contracts for the next few years…
        …

        so they count Johans 2014 buyout against the payroll in 2013…

        but not Carlos beltran’s 5 mil in deferred money…

        what a bunch of jokers
        • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:36 pm

          20 Million seems like a lot of money to you doesn’t it?

          To a guy who was on the hook for a Billion dollars if he lost the Madoff suit it’s chump change!
          • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm

            Jose Reyes salary for 2012 – 10 mil
            Carlos Beltran – 13 mil
            Angel Pagan – 5 mil

            the same billionaire is the same guy who cant afford either 3 of these players
            • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 2:03 am

              Couldn’t afford them? Or was it Sandy didn’t want them?

              Show proof!
              • Just_Da_Damaja October 14, 2012 at 4:21 am

                LMAO

                Yes because Sandy would rather have Lucas Duda ( the slowest guy on the roster ) in RF than Carlos Beltran…

                Now you are implying the mets had the funds to sign those guys…but Sandy chose not to do it

                You are Awesome !
                • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 6:06 pm

                  “Now you are implying the mets had the funds to sign those guys”

                  Sure they did but Sandy spent it on that crappy Bullpen rebuild that netted us scrubs!
      • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:23 pm

        The GM at the time of the signingthas who!

        Madoff didn’t even exist at the time Bonilla was signed if I’m not mistaken….

        And the contract wasn’t predicated on what madoff was promising it was predicated on the natural market return on invesment which at the time was rather high thats to the Stock Market and the Internet Bubble.
        • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:20 pm

          Nope !

          The Wilpons had been involved FINANCIALLY with Madoff since the early 80′s…they knew each other from the MID-70′s….but according to u…it was the GM in 1995, 2000, 2002, 2004 that was responsible for all the deferred MADOFF ACCOUNTS !!!

          Here is Frank Cashen, former GM explaining his deferred package ( which got paid off before the SEC found out about Bernie )

          Frank Cashen, the former general manager of the Mets who built the team that won the 1986 World Series, said it was his understanding that several million dollars of his deferred compensation had been invested with Mr. Madoff. Asked whether it was Mr. Wilpon or Mr. Katz who was more likely to push the idea of investing with Mr. Madoff, Mr. Cashen, who stepped down as general manager in 1991, said, “To me, they operated in unison.”
          • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 6:23 pm

            Jamie Peppard, a former financial auditor who has studied the Madoff case, more than 500 accounts can be tied to Mr. Wilpon and Mr. Katz. Mr. Wilpon had at least 17 accounts just under his name, according to her analysis.

            The former employees of the Mets said substantial aspects of the club’s financial operations seemed to flow through, or wind up with, Mr. Madoff — annuities set up for players, cash generated by sponsorship deals, and more. The team regularly discussed investing deferred money from long-term player contracts in Madoff accounts. Bobby Bonilla was among the players who had their deferred money put with Mr. Madoff, one former employee said.

            In those cases, the players would agree to take less money up front and be paid over a number of years, earning interest. It appears the Mets would be able to keep any money earned over that agreed rate, and Mr. Madoff regularly produced returns that outdid prevailing interest rates.

            And when the costs of disability insurance spiked, the former employee recalled, the Mets began to self insure. They did it by investing premiums with Mr. Madoff, he said.
            • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 1:57 am

              ow how us the proof that they didn’t make a lot more money by investing it than they are paying those guys each year….

              Can you?
              • Just_Da_Damaja October 14, 2012 at 4:20 am

                sure…they WERE getting those Madoff return rates of 12-18%…then paying the player 8%…6% and in Beltran/Santana’s case..1.25 %

                they WERE making a killing on these accounts…

                Now they are going to have to find a way to pay those guys WITHOUT THOSE RETURNS
                • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 6:08 pm

                  Madoff was giving 16%, You say they were paying the players 8%!

                  So on a 20 year deferred payment plan they made all the money owed the player in 10 years!
• Barbella October 13, 2012 at 1:30 pm

  Sorry to say, but Mark Healey has it right. If you support the toothless, clueless, fraudulent ownership (and friends of frauds in high places – Bud Selig), then you’re the CEO of Schmucks.

  Love the Mets, but hate the Owners! Certainly don’t reward MLB for allowing this travesty to happen. Besides, the 7% savings over the next two seasons of watching “meaningless games” isn’t worth it.

  Just go to stub hub whenever R.A. Dickey takes the hill. Come back in 2015 and pay the ticket hike, and hope the Willpons plane crashes into the Hudson!

  Amen.
• Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:39 pm

  Kudos to the Cardinals for doing what the mets could never do…

  I said back in 2005…Carlos Beltran is a natural #2 hitter…the only reason they are hitting him at 4/5 is to justify the contract…

  well…Beltran at the tender age of 35 is back to being a #2 hitter…

  this is why the mets never get anywhere…they always prioritize public opinion over doing what is BEST for the team…

  Fred Wilpon is more scared of what Tommy Smith in Mineola is going to say on WFAN than he is of losing games…

  until that changes…or we get new ownership…we will continue to be screwed
• Hawk October 13, 2012 at 1:44 pm

  Joan Payson must be turning over in her grave.
  • Peter R. October 13, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Poor Joan, she was a great owner and woman ahead of her time.
• Old School Mets Fan October 13, 2012 at 1:46 pm

  Sandy Alderson was given a hard 93 million payroll. He is paying Santana, Bay and Wright almost half. No choice but to go with cheapest possible options in CF, RF, C, SS, 2B and 1B, Starters 3-5, the bench and bullpen.

  Has Sandy been a great GM? The little money he had had not been greatly spent. Emaus Bucholz, Beato, Francisco, Ramirez, Torres, Carrasco, Shoppach. And still not putting enough money in farm system.
  • Just_Da_Damaja October 13, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    …it would’ve cost 0 money to put Duda in LF…

    sorry..but IMO…Sandy doesnt give 2 sh*t about this club…this is a forced arrangement from Selig to get the mets over the water til they sell the club
    • Joey D. October 13, 2012 at 7:19 pm

      Hi just,

      Agree with you except on the part about eventually selling the team – I think these measures were taken to help prevent the Wilpons from having to sell the team.
      • Just_Da_Damaja October 14, 2012 at 4:24 am

        I disagree…

        the firm the mets employed in 2010 was the same firm that helped set up the rangers sell…

        Sandy went to SD in 2005-2009…they sold 19 months later….

        the process of selling a 700 million dollar club takes a while…esp with the approval process and vetting of each potential owner…

        The Mets may be worth over 2 billion when this is said and done…the wilpons may STILL own a minority piece

        this way, Selig ensures the wilpons always own a piece…and frankly i dont care if they do…i just dont want them to have a say in day-day operations
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Francisco was the cheapest possible option to go with?

    What is more important? Cheapest or getting what you actually paid for?

    We got neither with Francisco.
• Old School Mets Fan October 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm

  Typically attendance increases the year after you start winning. Mets 1970 attendance outpaced 1969, etc.

  Agree that winning, not star power sells tickets. 1998-2001 they had Piazza and only true Mets fans knew the other guys. Of course had an opportunity for A-Rod and decided not to spend the money and then decide to trash the guy instead. If its between money and winning with the Wilpons, they have always chosen money. Always.
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    “Typically attendance increases the year after you start winning”

    Correct!

    But thats not the only way it goes up.
    Attendance and Season ticket sales went up dramatically the year we signed Pedro and Beltran before a single game was played.

    The winning helped maintain it and they added thanks to the winning they made that year.

    Winning games only has an affect AFTER the first half of the winning season.
    By then the winning has convinced more people to go to see the second half of that season and then convince some to buy season tickets the following year.

    People don’t seem to realize that the key to increasing attendance is to maintain what you have while convincing more to get onboard.

    Get a big name who sells tickets before the season starts gets you a full year of increase and if you win with him you get even more the following year.

    Thats how the Yankees have been able to afford all the guys they have…
    They sign some good players to get an immediate uptick in sales and then win, when the winning falls short what do they do?
    Go and buy some other big name to make up for the potential drop off and performance to start winning again.

    We are not at that point yet but we seem intent on going the opposite direction and getting rid of the good players and as a result despite not losing all that many more games than the previous year attendance keeps going down.
• Brian October 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm

  But you are saying there is no consequence to this. Sure the Wilpons own the franchise, but this is a public trust. How long can MLB have its National League franchise in New York be the Toronto Blue Jays?

  You also think that Fred Wilpon hired Sandy Alderson to fix this baseball team when it was forces upon him by MLB.
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    For as long as it took the Boston Red Sox to win a WS….
    For as long as the Chicago Cubs have sucked!
    They don’t care how much money the mets spend or how good any team in the league does!

    Cause even if the entire league consisted of scrubs in the end someone will win the World Series and people will go to see them!
    • Just_Da_Damaja October 14, 2012 at 12:53 pm

      Notice the INCREASE in attendance from 2003….and how STEADY it has been

      http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rsoxatte.shtml

      this is what happens when you WIN consistently
• Seligman October 13, 2012 at 2:23 pm

  I had to stop reading this after the first few sentences. Why do you give that guy any attention? He thrives on this. You are actually promoting him by talking about him. He’s a hater and I wish he’d go root for the Yankees which he probably he does anyway. After 90% of the lies in his book were shot to hell how can anyone lend this person their ears? His predictions on Madoff, CRG, bankruptcy, the billion dollar suit, the whistle blower, Judge Rakoff’s decision, being out by 2014, shares not being purchased, everything, were all wrong. He’s batting 0-for-20.
  • Metsie October 13, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    So true Seligman!
    Giving this guy the time of day is just playing into his game.
  • K Maxx October 13, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    This.
  • Peter R. October 13, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Hey cut him some slack, he did say attendance would go down. Who could have ever predicted that? lol
• Barry Duchan October 13, 2012 at 4:06 pm

  Although I have been a Mets fan for 50 years, because I live in North Carolina and have no occasion to travel to New York, I would be attending zero Mets games next year, whether the team goes 162-0 or 0-162 whether tickets cost $5 or $500 if they give away tote bags, caps, or individually hand-signed game-used bats. I guess that means that I should not expect the Mets to make an effort to put a winning team on the field. i thought the goal of any team’s ownership was to put the best possible product on the field and then reap the profits that come with increased attendance, merchandise sales and high TV ratings instead of spending as little as possible and still try to entice fans to the park. If these owners cannot afford to TRY to put a winning team on the field, they should sell the team, period.
  • Trs86 October 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    Barry there are a few of us from NC, maybe we can all ride up together. lol
• Joey D. October 13, 2012 at 7:15 pm

  Did anybody notice that tickets for last night’s ALDS game were available up to game time and that even after the traffic that caused a lot of fans to get there late, so many have talked about thousands of empty seats? And that as of early this afternoon, tickets were still available for the ALCS opener tonight?

  It’s because the fans – even Yankee fans – can’t afford the tickets. Anyone notice that season attendance in the Bronx is about a quarter million less than it was in 2010 with attendance dropping each of the last three seasons? Let’s not cry poverty for them but they too are out pricing their own fan base. On the radio today, a father said he used to take his family to many games but just can’t afford to anymore.

  With the Met fan base it was more than just a matter of being squeezed out by the cost of an individual ticket. Remember just a few short seasons ago if one wanted to go to the home opener they couldn’t just buy a ticket for that one game but were forced to buy tickets for a series of contests. Same with subway series – single game tickets could not be purchased.

  There are some other issues about Citi Field itself I promised Joe D. I would not repeat as well…..

  Bottom line is, many Met fans would feel they were kicked in the teeth even if the team on the field was kept competitive.
• Metro69 October 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm

  There is a site called Mets Police and everytime Howard Medal writes something it get reposted over there. Between the two of them they pretend to be Mets fans but all they do is put down the team and complain 24/7. Before I read this post just now I had already read the Megdal article hours ago via Mets Police. That guy who runs the site likes to pretend to be naive on the subject but never misses an opportunity to promote him or any negative Mets news. He also censors all his comments. I’ve left several comments this season but they get moderated and never posted. Whenever there are crowd shots that show large portion of empty seats, he thinks that’s enough for a post. And he does it for every Mets home game. He’s always trying to sell you something. There too many Mets sites as it is and I’m waiting for that part of the cycle when most of them all fall by the wayside and only the strong survive. I hope Megdal and that moron Shannon are the first to go. Two of the most disingenuine Mets fans you will ever know. I never heard of Healy but he is writing that fans that go to games are schmucks it says all I need to know about him.
  • Trs86 October 13, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    What’s going on Metro, I completely agree.
• jessep October 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm

  Joe D: Can you confirm something for me?

  -If you owned 2012 season tickets, your price is the same?
  -If so, is this mini plans also?
  -Are individual tickets going up?

  -This is for new season ticket holders? – which is something teams try to bank on because… they have the all-star game this year.

  What don’t Megdal and friends understand about that? All this is, is an attempt to get companies who are NOT season holders to become season holders for the purpose of acquiring tickets to the All-Star Game which is an “elite-ist” type event.

  I
• DaveSchneck October 13, 2012 at 10:56 pm

  Joe D.’
  Thank you for your 6 years service. I agree with you that the our wonderful free market system rightfully allows the Wilpons to price their product as they see fit, and allows the customers to decide whether or not to purchase the product. Our wonderful system also allows for the free speech exhibited by the two authors that you reference. Although they may have a predisposed angst for the ownership, they are well within their rights to express their opinions, and even if you do not agree, their points are supportable. My two cents is that people may spend their money as they choose. However, IMO, if the Wilpons put a sub-standard product on the field in 2013, due to whatever limitations they claim, and the same people that pay for the product bitch and moan about the Wilpons’ spending, I believe those people are out of line (schmucks may be a bit harsh).
• TruthsaboutMurphy October 14, 2012 at 2:29 am

  Joe D, I hope you read the comments once they’ve gotten into the nineties. Your rants are always the same, blame Alderson for the crappy team, but give the Wilpons a pass do you stay in good graces and remain invited to the parties. Talk about agendas. It sickens me every time I read the spew you post about a GM doing the best he can with the garbage he’s been given, yet constantly give ownership a pass for not adequately funding their team the last two seasons.
  • jessep October 14, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Hey “Truth” – I’m not sure you’re really understanding the point of the post. He’s not giving them a pass on everything – he’s just not participating in the witch hunt. There is a difference.

    Raising ticket prices for new 2013 season holders is nothing another team wouldn’t do. Heck the Orioles did it prior to this year and they had what 13 straight losing seasons?

    Your problem is you think $ dictates performance. You also are IGNORING the big picture with the finances over the last 2 years. They were dug into a giant hole because of Madoff+paying for talent that was not giving them their bang for their buck.

    They were in a giant hole because in 07 they spent $115m, 08 $137m, 09 $149, 2010 $134m and have absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

    They spent $535 million dollars over 4 seasons and have NOTHING to show for it. NOTHING.

    “yet constantly give ownership a pass for not adequately funding their team the last two seasons.”

    So I assume this means from 07-10 you were bragging about how you loved the Wilpon’s and they are adequately funding the team right?

    Something tells me that isn’t true.

    Stop pretending like the roster was gutted. Over the last 2 years only Yanks, Phils, Boston, Angels, Detroit, Giants, White Sox, Cards have spent more $ on their team than the Mets. That means the Mets through their financial problems have STILL spent more than 70% of the league.
    • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 6:10 pm

      Hard to say a playoff and three competitive Septembers is nothing…..
      If thats the case then Moneyball has literally done NOTHING in Oakland.
      • jessep October 14, 2012 at 7:45 pm

        Are you kidding me?

        You’re going to honestly tell me that $535million was spent well because the Mets made it to the LCS in year 1 of that spending and then because they were “competitive” in September in 07 and 08?

        Just FYI – they weren’t “competitive” in September – that’s why they missed the playoffs.

        Now you want to compare it to the period of time that the book Moneyball was written?

        There is a DRASTIC difference between spending $535m over 5 seasons reaching the playoffs ONCE and doing what the A’s did from 99-06. If the Mets made the playoffs in 07 and 08, you’d have a much better argument. But they didn’t – so you don’t.

        The A’s made the 5 times in those 8 years. To get 5 playoff appearances for the Mets, you gotta go back to 1986. Comparing that only makes the A’s look that much better. So thats 5 appearances in 8 years compared to 5 appearances in 27 years. Yeah – they did nothing.

        Tell me right now: If I told you that you could trade the Mets 06-10 seasons where they spent $535m for the A’s 2000-2004. You’re gonna tell me you’re taking the Mets results? Really?
        • Metsie October 14, 2012 at 7:56 pm

          Yep becase the place was packed, the team made a ton of money, and turned a profit!

          Did the A’s under moneyball pack the place and make money hand over fist the way we did?

          NOPE!
          In fact they made so little they were forced to sell off all thier good players who did NOT cost a lot because they couldn’t afford them!

          So they got to the same place as those mets but never got the big payoff when the winning was happening…
          • jessep October 14, 2012 at 8:34 pm

            Oh okay! I didn’t realize that in order for you be happy with your team’s performance – you need attendance to be high.

            I guess I really need to check my priorities because if somebody offers me my pick between the two

            A) 4 playoff appearances in 5 years with an average of 95 wins a season
            or
            B) 1 playoff appearance in 5 years with an average of 84 wins a season and 2 epic regular season collapses

            I don’t think my first reaction will be “well which team had the better attendance?” The fact that yours is – really says a lot about what you look for as a fan.

            You either are blatantly TRYING to argue with me or you have absolutely no idea of the market in Oakland, or the issues with that stadium.
            • Metsie October 15, 2012 at 2:07 am

              And we all didn’t realize that you don’t accept good performance unless it is made by complete unknown guys under 24 years of age.
              And as soon as anyone knows them they should be traded…
              • jessep October 15, 2012 at 8:52 am

                So again – you’re taking 06 playoffs, 07+08 historic collapse, 09, 10 terrible years over 4 playoff years in 5 seasons. If it was any other team you’d say you’d take the opposite – but because its the A’s you need to act like its no big deal what they did.

                Winning an average of 95 games with 4 playoff appearances is better for any fan base than winning 84 games and 1 playoff appearance.

                Talking about attendance or the players on the team is just talking points to try and diminish a team that did a better job than our team.
                • Metsie October 15, 2012 at 10:33 am

                  All I said is if making a playoff means nothing then then the A’s did nothing as well…

                  Add Nothing together and what does it add up to?

                  I guess the Mets from the 80′s did nothing too
                  They only had two Postseason appearances!

                  When the A’s get to 17 Appearances in 18 Years let us all know…
                  You might have finally proved something about Moneyball.
                  • jessep October 15, 2012 at 10:47 am

                    I’m not sure where you are in this conversation. I think getting to the playoffs is an incredible accomplishment in today’s sport. Which is why I think the A’s 4 appearances in 5 years is more impressive than the Mets 1 in 5 years… I think a World Series win is #1 accomplishment, and a Playoff appearance is #2. The middle is a crapshoot.

                    So I’m not sure where you’re getting that I think “making a playoff means nothing” since my entire argument is based on the fact they DID do that.
                  • Metsie October 15, 2012 at 9:56 pm

                    Yet you said….

                    “They spent $535 million dollars over 4 seasons and have NOTHING to show for it. NOTHING. ”

                    They have a playoff to show for it and a bucket load of money from fans that paid for what they spent!

                    What have we got today?

                    Payroll Flexability? Where is it?
• Brian October 14, 2012 at 10:13 am

  I understand the need for them to stop hemorrhaging cash. But they are being disingenuous while not signing.half of their draft picks at the same time.

  It’s not so much the payroll as much as the perception that there is no plan except wait for 2014. Well, pardon me for thinking that nothing is going to change.even with 50 million coming off the books.
• 2 Guys Talking Mets Baseball » AROUND THE HORN: Bricks, Davey, Ticket Prices & Metsmerized October 15, 2012 at 8:58 pm

  [...] Joe D. over at Metsmerized let it all hang out when it came to the Mets new ticket prices. But maybe not in the way you’d expect. In response [...]
• Choose The Mets 2013 – The Schmucks Strike Back | Gotham Nation October 16, 2012 at 9:30 pm

  [...] Recently, a comment I made on Twitter after reading about how The Wilpon Ownership Group (or TWOG as I will refer to them from now on), irritated some folks. As I conversed with some fans and colleagues on Twitter, I realized there was a blog post building in there. Now, several days later, the response is pretty much what I expected. Some folks agree with my stance, some don’t. There’s a group of folks who I never expected to agree with me, did so, and there were others, who usually agree with me, chided my decision to call my fellow Mets fans “schmucks” for buying or renewing their s… [...]