Oct
13
2012
13
2012
Mets Minors: Who Are The Untouchables?
An article by Craig Lerner
RHP Hansel Robles made it to a few of our lists of Mets untouchables.
After the minor league season came to an end, Joe D. asked our minor league team who they believed were our five most untouchable prospects. He asked me to take the lead, compile all the results, and present it to our readers. Of course when your team finishes in fourth place in four successive seasons, the word untouchable shouldn’t be in your vocabulary, but for the purposes of this post let’s put that aside, have a little fun, and see who everyone really likes.
Craig selects:
- Zack Wheeler: He still has issues with command and control, but made huge strides this season and exhibited why some scouts count him among the top three pitching prospects in the minors. A future #1 or #2 starter for the Mets.
- Wilmer Flores: His ceiling has always been off the charts, but 2012 was his coming out party. Maybe those comparisons to Juan Gonzalez and Miguel Cabrera were over the top, maybe not. For now he needs to excel at Triple-A and if he demolishes baseballs like he did in Binghamton and St. Lucie, he’ll be in Citi Field sometime in 2013.
- Rafael Montero: He won’t blow you away with his 92-93 mph fastball, but his slider is lethal, his curve gets big outs, and his changeup keeps getting better. The best part is he throws all of his pitches with precision and great command. His 1.4 walk rate will attest to that, but his 8.1 K/9 shows that you don’t need to throw 98 mph to overpower hitters. He’s definitely a keeper.
- Hansel Robles: After four solid seasons in a row, it’s time to make room for Robles at the top of any Mets top prospects list. Now 20, this hard-throwing righthander will apply his trade in a full season league in 2013 and don’t be shocked if he skips Savannah and starts the year in St. Lucie.
- Michael Fulmer: A fierce competitor with an electric fastball that touches 97-98 and an array of secondary pitches that kept improving and had scouts taking notice. Only 19 and he’ll be mixing it up with much older prospects in St. Lucie next season. He’s going to move up the ranks quickly.
Sean selects:
- Wilmer Flores: Potential. With possible move to 2B, could be one of best hitting 2B in MLB. Defense will never be a calling card
- Domingo Tapia: Strikeouts, low walks, velocity. All things that make great pitchers. If breaking ball comes around, solid starter potential
- Aderlin Rodriguez: The power is by far best in the system, and possibly top-10 in MiLB. Without a position, but plus-power doesn’t grow on trees
- Brandon Nimmo: Has great potential, but is raw as can be. Good eye at plate, good defense, good speed. Upside is above-average RF.
- Rafael Montero: Velocity, low walks, ground balls. Dominated at both A levels without a true breaking ball.
Clayton selects:
- Zack Wheeler: This is pretty obvious. There aren’t many major leaguers I would trade Wheeler for, not sure if there are any. He’s going to be a top of the rotation starter for many years to come. Great deal getting him for Beltran, no need/desire to deal him, nor should there be.
- Wilmer Flores: Daniel Murphy is not the long-term solution at second base and it appears the Mets are grooming Flores to eventually be their everyday man alongside Tejada up the middle. He could possibly be a middle infielder with some pop, and that’s a valuable asset.
- Hansel Robles: He has dominated at every single level of his four-year pro-career with the Mets, I look forward to seeing him at Savannah or St. Lucie next year. It will be a big test for him and I believe he will thrive next season.
- Luis Mateo: An excellent strikeout pitcher who dominated the New York-Penn League much like Robles. Another one I;m looking forward to seeing in Savannah..
- Cam Maron: Love his makeup, a little low in the power department, but a solid defensive catcher with the capability to bat .300/.400 like he did this year with Savannah, I am very interested to see how the hometown kid progresses.
Satish selects:
- Zack Wheeler: I am a little hesitant to rank this guy above Harvey overall, but there is no denying the talent is there. When the floor seems to be a #3 starter, you know you have a good one on your hands.
- Michael Fulmer: A 19 year old dominated the Savannah league. Those guys are what, all in their twenties? I think he is a keeper.
- Hansel Robles: I know the numbers were only in Brooklyn – but he was a god among men. I am eager to see how he pitches at higher levels.
- Wilmer Flores: Finally, there is reason to keep the hope… Time is still on his side and he would likely be undervalued as a trade chip.
- Domingo Tapia: A hard thrower who is making strides in the right direction – a 3.16 SO/BB ratio and his filthy stuff is starting to convince me that he has a bright MLB future in a few years.
Fonzie13 selects:
- Zack Wheeler: He’s the best prospect in the system and has a chance to be part of a lethal 1-2 punch along with Matt Harvey.
- Wilmer Flores: He’s simply the best position player in the system. A system that has very few potential impact bats above A-Ball . He has a chance to be an Edgardo Alfonzo type of situational hitter with more pop, minus the defense.
- Rafael Montero: Electric stuff, excellent command and mound poise at a very young age. Excellent K to BB ratio. Should blaze through the system.
- Luis Mateo: See Raffy Montero. Insane K to BB ratio.
- Micheal Fulmer: Power arm, bulldog mentality, excellent poise, sits 94-96 at 19 years old with a wicked curveball.
Connor selects:
- Zack Wheeler: He was already the top prospect in the system before last season and now after making big strides this season, may be one of the best in baseball.
- Wilmer Flores: The power stroke is developing. Now it’s time to find a position…
- Michael Fulmer: To dominate A-ball like he did just a year after graduating high school is very impressive.
- Rafael Montero: He showed stellar command this season. I’m really excited about him going forward.
- Domingo Tapia: He has incredible “stuff.” He also has very good command, a great sign for such a young pitcher.
NYMets945 selects:
- Zack Wheeler: The guy has just flat out pitched in his time as a Mets prospect and nothing more to say.
- Michael Fulmer: Viewed as #3 prospect in OK in 2011 draft but probably higher if any other year’s draft and proved why this year.
- Rafael Montero: He has pitched with pinpoint control in his time in Mets system and has excelled at every level with strikeouts and little walks.
- Brandon Nimmo: As a kid out of Wyoming and only 19 years old with mostly college players, he had a wonderful year for Brooklyn in leadoff spot showing his five tools.
- Jacob DeGrom: Excelled this year in Savannah and St Lucie and has only shifted recently the mound, so his arm is more resilient than most who pitched in college.
We’d love to see who your untouchable Mets prospects are. Leave your lists below in the comments thread.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Brandon Nimmo untouchable? Who ever put him on their lists have no clue as to what the word untouchable means and what type of player fall into that category. The Mets dont have five untouchables they have three and they are Flores, Wheeler, and Montero. But that doesn’t mean I would hold off trading any of them for a stud outfielder which is what we need more than pitching and an infielder that has no position much like Murphy.
Honestly, why should anyone really be untouchable?
They shouldn’t be I was just playing along and even so I couldn’t get past three names. I actually hate the word untouchable since Alex Ochoa and Gregg Jefferies were untouchables. And that other guy Alex something, geez his name escapes me..
Ochoa?
Yeah I agree.
I guess I would say Wheeler would be my only “untouchable” in the minors.
Alex Escobar.
Ah, yeah, that’s it.
I think the other untouchable Alex was Alex Escobar
They traded him.
TR, U HAVE UNTOUCHABLES, SIMPLY BECAUSE U NEED TO BUILD ON SOMETHING. WIOULD THE MISERY OF THE 60′s( 62-68) HAVE FLOURISHED INTO ’69 WITHOUT SEAVER,KOOSMAN,GENTRY BEING UNTOUCHABLES PRIOR TO ’69?
I SINCERELY DOUBT IT!
CERTAINLY IF U CONSIDERED YOUR FARM SYSTEM AS MERELY AN OPORTUNITY TO TRADE A PROMISEaka PROSPECT, FOR CURRENT PRODUCTION akaPROVEN MLBer. AS WELL AS SUPPLYING AN UNLIMITED PAYROLL BUDGET. U SURELY CAN BUILD A WINNING TEAM; BUT FOR HOW LONG? 1 YR 1 TITLE WONDER AS HAS BEEN DONE IN MIAMI MORE THAN ONCE AND CERTAINLY UNSUSTAINABLY.
AS SOMEONE WHO PAYS LITTLE ATTENTION TO FARMHAND ANNUAL PERFORMANCES; EVEN I CAN APPRECIATE THE NEED FOR GROOMING & PERPETUATING A WINNING APPROACH AS SO OFTEN DISPLAYED BY FRANCHISES LIKE ST LOUIS, ATLANTA, NYY. A DEDICATED APPROACH OF CONTINUITY MOST RECENTLY ABANDONED BY DODGERS IN FAVOR OF SEEKING A QUICKFIX SOLUTION
So lets see we have:
6 Votes for Zack Wheeler
6 votes for Wilmer Flores
5 votes for Rafael Montero
5 votes for Michael Fulmer
3 votes for Hansel Robles
3 votes for Domingo Tapia
2 votes for Brandon Nimmo
2 votes for Luis Mateo
1 vote for Aderlin Rodriguez
1 vote for Cam Maron
1 vote for Jacob DeGrom
Honestly, I am a bit surprised Nimmo got 2 votes but overall it’s about what I would of expected. Nice job guys.
Actually I must have skipped right over Cam Maron, what the heck is his name doing on this list!!!!
Maron’s not even the Mets’ best catching prospect. I’m sure the organization holds Plawecki in higher regard. I assume Clayton through in Maron just to be provocative — and it worked!
And whichever guy threw in DeGrom is either trying to show off his knowledge of names in the system or hasn’t thought through the fact that he’s had major elbow surgery and is 24 years old. I love DeGrom (great stuff, for sure) but there are probably a thousand guys for whom I’d trade him. There isn’t a credible Mets list on which he’d be a top ten prospect (which in itself speaks well of the Mets system).
Yikes. through = threw.
Again, yikes.
Thank you for summarizing that for us, MNJ.
You welcome, Joe D.
Flores, Wheeler, Tapia, Montero and i prob will be question about this, but Juan Lagares… I know, I know, there’s something about the kid that makes me think he’d be a stud for us..
Lagares? Come on Alex, lol, untouchable? I also dont get all this love for Tapia? Remember that guy Macks Mets, he talked about that guy all the time and I never seen him as anything more than a future middle reliever.
I would agree Maniac about Tapia, although watching a few of his starts had me very impressed. He’s a groundball machine and was done in by poor defense at times. He pitched much better than his numbers indicated. Not untouchable but a guy who could be a very good pitcher down the road as long as he continues to develope his secondary pitches. Gee haven’t we heard that term before.
I wonder if Tapia maybe needs to add a slider to his arsenal. He’s a four-seamer/sinker pitcher with a changeup, but he’s tall and has a 3/4 whippy delivery. I can’t help but think of another tall, 3/4 slot pitcher with a blazing fastball who didn’t impress until he perfected a slider that his natural motion made even more devastating. Randy Johnson?
only Wheeler is untouchable. For the right player or players they can all be traded or part of a trade.
Wow this years 1st ounder didnt geta vote. Shocking, mr Wilpon must be scratching his sons head wondering why?
Well they can’t be traded anyway so…
They might not be “untouchables” but i think the Mets have a heck of a second tier of good pitchers in the system.
Cam Maron and Jake deGrom untouchable? That’s laughable. What happened to Petey Pete did he quit or something?
Craig, are you going to do the Top 20 anytime soon?
I would trade Wheeler for Justin Upton in a heartbeat.
Lets hope that heartbeat flat-lines… lol.
lol
Kevin, upton got ripped here because he felt the arizona fans were being mean to him, meanwhile, wheeler is just as emotionally unstable, is sensitive as hell, and just the other day he was being ripped in twitter for being all lovei dovey with jayson heyward, a guy who he’ll be pitching against pretty soon…
Where did you see/read that Wheeler is emotionally unstable?
He doesn’t have to show you. Go find it yourself.
And also, don’t mind the fact that Upton is also frequently criticized for that fact that he can’t hit his weight on the road.
Donal October 11, 2012 at 12:46 pm .
He doesn’t have to show you. Go find it yourself.
THIS^^^^^
check his twitter account, in there you’d find some very emotionally tweets.. and interacting with braves players etc… Very pathetic..
“interacting”?
Like what?
A few weeks back when he posted that pic with the two hotties and said threesome anyone? That makes Wheeler just fine in my book. Those girls were smoking!
Sounds like a typical kid, not emotionally unstable.
I don’t have a Twitter account and usually only read tweets put out there from beat writers.
That’s not enough to go on, IMO. I thought there were some story on it somewhere.
Trying to sum a person’s character up through Twitter alone would be the same as doing that here from comments posters make. Not a complete picture.
I would trade him for Upton too. Proven Major Leaguer and All-Star > Prospects.
Again, what did he prove? That he hits in the second best hitter’s park in baseball? Look at what happens to him on the road.
Yes, most guys take a slight dip. But if I didn’t tell you who it was, you’d think Upton’s slash line belonged to a back up middle infielder.
The Mets don’t have any untouchable prospects outside of maybe Wheeler…the bigger question is which prospects would other teams want to touch?
For the right player…there is no such thing as an untouchable prospect.
Mitch Petanick October 11, 2012 at 11:46 am
For the right player…there is no such thing as an untouchable prospect.
THIS^^^^^
Funny, the untouchable word is just that, a word.. All these guys have the potential to be good, or to be plain and simple BUST. When the pressure its as high as it is for a prospect in NY, that prospect rarely pans out.. or at least in mets history.. SInce gooden and straw, nothing we’ve ever labeled as untouchable has worked out.. So, odds are not pretty good for the untouchables or the #1 prospect in the mets org.. so..
I would say Wright and Reyes worked out pretty well
I don’t think they got this hype… Neither of them
I don’t know about that. I was touting both as great Mets and the hope of the future back then as well.
Wheeler, Montero, Tapia, Fullmer, Flores, Robles, Rodriguez, Nimmo.
Why no love for Mateo?
To me the Mets have to keep and continue to develop these players as they will be the future. As a Mets fan, I rather they paste together another year without trading these players because quite simply, there is not enough the Mets can do for 2013 that will make the Mets team better than the Nats or Braves. So why sacrifice these youngsters in a foolish attempt to possibly finish 3rd in the NL east?
Wait until Bay and Santana are both off the books. That’s is the time to make a big push towards becoming the best possible team. In another year, a lot of the youngsters listed above will either be with the team or have much greater value in a trade. But at least at that point, the Mets won’t have so many holes to fill.
To trade these prospects right now will be very foolish which is the reason why I think the Mets will do it. They are after all, a foolish organization from top to bottom.
Why else would the Mets build a Dodger stadium for the Mets to play in? why would it be devoid of Mets memorabilia and have Jackie Robinson as you walk in? why else would the owner of the Mets show up in spring training with a Underdog shirt for the players to wear?
Need I say more?
Craig is spot on. What he said.
I agree, Craig’s picks and commentary were on point.
Yet we are said to have no one worth trading to get what we need and have to mortgage all our MLB performers instead….
Yeah Right!
Craig and Connor had my favorite picks. Craig’s comments were spot on. I’m excited about the turnaround our farm system has made in the past 2-3 years. This is good to see and it’s also nice to see so many of them are moving into the top levels of the system with a couple already arrived in Harvey and Edgin.
Maron. Heh.
Anyway, I’m in the camp that it’s silly to view anyone as untouchable when a team in the situation in which the Mets find themselves. If say Washington wants to move Harper because they don’t like his attitude or haircut then I’d clear out three or more of our ‘untouchable’ prospects to get him.
There is only one Met prospect who is truly untouchable in the sense that his talent projects at an elite level and there are dozens of guys for which I’d swap him in a heartbeat.
Yeah, that’s kinda my point too. It’s an overused term. If you want to say the Mets would have to be really taken back by the offer to trade them then so be it but no team has any untouchables.
What about Wheeler for Will Myers or Oscar Taveras? Top pitching prospect for top outfield prospect. Still untouchable?
Teams generally don’t swap top prospects like that. If it doesn’t work out for your team, the blowback is pretty intense.
No one is untouchable – it all depends on what someone is offering in return. That said, the 5 I would prefer to keep the most are Wheeler, Fulmer, Nimmo, Flores, and Familia.
Only TWO votes for Mateo? What the hell?
Brandon Nimmo imho is the 2nd best prospect in the system and has the potential to be the Mets best OF from within since Darryl Strawberry.
At age 19 and with very little experience, he more than held his own vs. players / pitchers generally a couple of years older and more experienced than him.
While there sure are question marks about every part of his game, he made significant progress in every phase and seems highly coachable. His offensive upside basically is a LHH version of David Wright – at a corner OF spot. His numbers are actually quite similar to those posted by Wright in Low A in 2002.
Brandon Nimmo was 57th in the league in batting in a 14-team New York Penn League. If he is the next Strawberry, the other 56 must be the next Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, and Joe DiMaggio.
How many of the other 56 were younger than Nimmo ?
And according to that logic, 3b Eric Campbell probably is the Top prospect in the organization….
No one should be untouchable, but my top 5 would be Wheeler, Flores, Fulmer, Montero, and, well there isn’t a fifth for me. And I wouldn’t trade any for J.Upton. There are definitely players I would trade them for, just not J.Upton, not a big fan of him.
What do you expect the Mets New AAA team in Las Vegas 51′s look like? Also Who do you look as the top outfielders in the minors to be and how long until they arrive in NY. also how do you rate the outfielders arm for throwing out runners? The same question for Catchers.
AAA roster in 2013 – barring trades or Rule V losses should feature Lagares, Den Dekker, Valdespin, Flores, Havens, Campbell, Dykstra, Wheeler, Mejia, McHugh, Gorski, E. Ramirez, Carson and Holt among others.
Except for Flores, Wheeler and Mejia not all that exciting – but certainly above average in terms of filling spots with actual prospects and not mostly Quad A veterans.
Among minor leaguers, the Mets 2017 outfield could feature some of Nimmo, Puello, G.Gomez, Ceciliani, Lupo or Marquez as the more promising pieces…
Wheeler and Fulmer.
Everyone else is available if it makes sense.