8
2012
Is A Longterm Deal For Wright In Mets’ Best Interest?
An article by 
Last week in one of our MMO Roundtable posts, I posed the question to our staff about whether David Wright would be back in a Mets uniform next season. Only one out of the seventeen who replied said Wright wouldn’t be back. Almost all of them made comments that Sandy Alderson has to do “whatever it takes”, or that this was “a no-brainer”.
It was a landslide. Mets fans love David Wright and obviously 99.9% of MMO does too.
I myself abstained from the vote because this whole Wright situation isn’t the slam dunk for me that everyone else seems to think it is. By slam dunk I’m not saying that he will get extended, but the prevailing sentiment that he should.
We now know that Alderson will pick up the $15 million dollar option. As he said last week, it’s locked in and he doesn’t see anything happening that will change that. This means that whatever extension David Wright signs, will begin right after the 2013 season is over making him 31 years old when the new contract begins. I’m betting that the odds that Wright gives us just three great years out of seven are 50-50 at best. Click to view odds.
The more thought I give this matter, the more concerned I become that a seven or eight year deal could become a bigger disaster than any deal Omar Minaya ever signed while he was GM. I was under the mistaken impression that we were moving past conducting business that way. Obviously I was wrong.
I thought we were done with second generation contracts?
All of you know I’ve been a huge Wright fan and avid supporter from the day he was drafted. I’ve enjoyed watching him come up and develop into one the game’s top third baseman and become a perennial National League All Star. But I have to tell you that Wright’s second half this season has raised some red flags for me. I certainly did not expect him to continue his .350 pace after the break, but at the same time I never thought he’d sink 100 points lower in batting average and 250 points lower in OPS either. Wright didn’t just slow down his first half pace, he freaking fell off a cliff.
Let’s not play favorites here and try to be objective…
The fact is that David Wright peaked in 2007 (.963 OPS), plateaued in 2008 (.924) and has declined ever since. Is that a fair statement to make? His 2012 season was phenomenal overall, but let’s not pretend that it wasn’t due mostly to his first half production, and that he could have given Claude Rains a run for his money in the role of the Invisible Man in the second half.
We are talking about giving a seven year deal that could fall somewhere between the range of $125-$150 million dollars. Wright will be 37 when he starts the final year of that contract.
In contrast, Carlos Beltran signed his seven year deal at age 28 and was 34 in the final year of his contract. If any of you have considered Beltran’s contract to be bad, how can you even entertain the thought of an even worse contract on an older player who peaked five years ago?
Also, there’s another important factor to note here. Beltran was still peaking when he was signed, Wright is in decline.
The kind of money we are considering for Wright is normally what most teams would give to their core or franchise player. But at 31 can you still call Wright a core or franchise player? Are 31 year old players what you build a team around? I’m sorry, but I just don’t see it.
The team is in a tight spot. It’s a damned if you do or damned if you don’t type situation. Can you imagine the outcry from the fans if he were to be traded by Alderson?
Even I cringe at the thought of that, but I’m just a fan and he is a general manager and baseball is a business. Alderson was supposedly brought here to make sure that the mistakes of the past were never repeated again.
Minaya was often ridiculed because he often listened to the fans, but I’m telling you that if Sandy gives Wright a seven year deal he is guilty of the same charge. Actually it would be worse because Minaya never gave a $100 million dollar contract to any player over the age of 29 – not Carlos Beltran and not Johan Santana.
Giving $150 million dollars to David Wright could go down as the most colossal financial blunder in team history. Not only that, but if years 4-7 of the deal end up being wasted – and there’s a good chance that they will – we won’t be out from under that deal until the year 2020. Now think about that for a moment…
But don’t worry David Wright fans… You have nothing to fear…
Because I believe Alderson will sign Wright this offseason…
Because I believe Alderson will succumb to the shouts and cries of the fans and give the people what they want…
Because I believe Alderson will offer Wright the same second generation contract he has always decried since he got here…
As I’ve been saying for a while now, the Mets have just two hitters that you can consider valuable trade chips right now – David Wright and Ike Davis.
I believe that Davis will be traded and that David Wright will indeed get that big fat extension. The problem here is that Alderson should be considering the exact opposite.
This offseason could end up being a disaster for the team and one that we’ll be regretting for a very long time. I pray that I’m wrong, but I have a bad feeling about this…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.0 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 6.5 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
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Is A Longterm Deal For Wright In Mets’ Best Interest?
NO
ALEX? WHAT’S YOUR ALTERNATIVE SINCE TRADING HIM ACTIVATES HIS ABILITY TO VOID THE 2013 EXTENSION ADDING HIM TO THE FREE AGENT POOL, NO ONE’S GOING TO CHANCE THAT BY OFFERING ANYTHING OF VALUE. AT THIS POINT IN TIME WRIGHT CONTRACTUALLY HAS THE ABILITY TO VOID ANY DEAL SIMPLY BY VOIDING HIS 2013 EXTENSION.
AS I SEE IT THERE ARE 2 OPTIONS,
1) AN EXTENSION
2) REYES HIM. GETTING ZERO IN RETURN AS HE PLAYS OUT THE YEAR.
SEEMS HIS REPS DID A FINE JOB OF SECURING WRIGHT’S ABILITY TO CHOOSE HIS OWN DESTINY OF COURSE, AT THE TIME THE CONCREPT OF EMPTY POCKETED OWNERSHIP WAS BEYOND LEGIIMACY AS A CONCERN & IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS BOTH REYES & WRIGHT WOULD BE LOCK DOWN METS FOR LIFE, IF DESIRED.
Mets62, Wright’s option can be exercised, then traded. He won’t be a free agent this season unless the Mets decline his option.
Metsfan, the mets hold his option. Again, this is not the NBA where players demand trades and desire destinations where they wanna play and they are pleased… This is baseball, it’s not where he wants to go, it’s where the best team offering us a package he can be traded to, for all i care he can be traded to KC or the Pirates…
I think it’s an investment in the fan base, the team and the future. They need to do SOMETHING to show the fans and players on their own team as well as outsiders to show they are moving forward from the last 2 tough winters.
Do I think Wright as a player will be worth it? No.
But I think signing him does more for the franchise than just a starting 3B.
It’s kind of like Mauer. Signing Mauer to that deal was a bad idea, but they had to do it. They lost so many players to FA and they needed to show the fans and everybody else that they could retain some of their key talents.
I am tired of gestures to the fans. That’s how you get guys like Jason Bay. If they are ready to move forward and add the pieces needed to be competitive again in the next couple of years, then re-sign Wright, if not then I don’t need a token gesture just as I didn’t need one that the deadline this year either.
Funny how a Minaya hate monger like you uses the same assinine comments in favor of what Alderson, your boy idol claims he’s gonna do with wright, but hates all Minaya who didn’t have to take two years to make a move to show others that the team has moved on. Since you like to delve into baseball history during your working hours go refresh yourself on Minaya’s reasons for signing a certain old pitcher in his FIRST winter, not his third. The hypocrisy of the Alderson cults knows no limits.
51′s .
THIS^^^^^^
I also don’t understand why people think signing Wright to a big long term deal is a no brainier when signing Jose (who is a year younger than Wright) to a lesser deal a year ago was a bad idea.
Sure, Wright is the RBI guy and has more power, but Reyes scores more runs and gets more hits and is in a key defensive position. A position that the Mets don’t really have a star to replace him with (no offence to Tejada). They do have a few really good options in the minors that could take over 3rd base for Wright easily. (not saying that replacing his production or leadership is easy, just that it’s easier to find good 3rd basemen)
As much as I like Wright and I’d like him to stay…he always seemed vanilla too me…he was the golden boy…Reyes brought a level of energy and excitement and joy that few players possess.
Either these deals are a bad idea for every player or they’re not. I think there is extra value to signing and keeping home grown starts like Jose and Wright…they mean more to the Mets than WAR or any other stat provides…and more than they would to any other club. To the Mets they are home grown stars that we’ve loved from day one…they are just mercenaries to any other team.
I really wonder what the pro-Sandy guys will do if Sandy gives Wright the Jose treatment and lets Wright walk away but some how make it seem like it was Wrights fault.
USMF….. They do have a few really good options in the minors that could take over 3rd base for Wright easily.
Really???? What are you seeing down there that I’m not. The lack of any real major league ready talent is exactly what the problem is here. If someone were ready to step right up and fill the hole then this would be a no brainer.
I agree 100% with the article but because of the anemic offense on this team, look for the mistakes of the past to be repeated.
I never said that they were “Major League ready” but we have better options at third then we have at short.
We have…
Wilmer Flores
Jefry Marte
Matthew Reynolds
Flores or Marte could be ready sometime next year and Reynolds could take another year. (this is biased off someone else’s projections, not mine)
And if Reese Havens or Spin ever get it together, they could go to 2nd later this year or next and have Murph slide over to 3rd.
I’m not saying that’d I’d be happy if that’s how it worked out. I’m just questioning why people who want to give a big contract to Wright wouldn’t want to give a lesser contract to a younger Reyes. Plus I’m playing devils advocate and also wondering why Sandy just doesn’t rip the band-aid off and tear the team completely apart now instead of dragging this whole thing out. I’d be pissed to see it happen, but it’ll be better then sitting here in baseball purgatory being told that “signing player X is a top priority” only to see them walk away.
Nothing special with Marte or Reynolds so don’t believe what you hear. Flores however is special and could very well turn into a hitting machine at the major league level. I go to many St. Lucie Mets games and watched Flores at that level for 2 plus years. The kid can hit, but defensively I don’t see him at 3rd base. He has problems staying focused on the game and defensively we definately wont see the flashes of brilliance that Wright shows us at 3rd. I think he’ll be better suited for 2nd base and will probably wind up playing there. As far as Murphy going over to 3rd, well with his power numbers thats just absurd. Unfortunately he’s still a man without a position.
“He has problems staying focused on the game ”
I love when fans cook up some intangible dumb shit to explain why someone wont work out…
focused on the game?
did u know that teufal and strawberry were taking turns banging fans in the stands in between AB’s ???
Was Flores trying to holla at your wife before a 2-1 FB came at him?
Just_Da_Dumaja
Where in that comment did you remotely see anything about him not working out?
I love how some people can’t even read.
Once again, the kid is special. I just don’t see him winding up at 3rd….thats all.
….exactly what was the point of u saying he had “concentration” issues….and what led u to that discovery…
if u cant concentrate at SS…u cant concentrate in LF…or 2B…or 1B…or 3B….
Wow….I didn’t know MMO had an interrogator. Anyway just read my original comment and try to let your brain process what I wrote and then you’ll know how and why I formed the “opinion”, not “discovery”on his lack of concentration. And btw, the hot corner does require quicker reflexes than other positions where a player who seems unfocused at times might be a liability.
If you said u didnt think Flores could play C…or CF…or even SS or 2B b/c he is 6’4 and might outgrow the position, thats totally valid…
if u said putting him at 1B, thats totally valid
i merely asked why u thought he had concentration issues…and ur coming up with as much detail as Paul Ryan when u ask him for details on their tax plan…
“The fact is that David Wright peaked in 2007 (.963 OPS), plateaued in 2008 (.924) and has declined ever since. ”
I wouldn’t say in decline ever since considering this year was a significant rebound, but obviously not back to the .900+ of years before.
I am still torn on Wright. Honestly I need more information. I need to know actual contract numbers and then what is offered by trade before I could make a logical decision.
So you think he hasn’t decline????
I didn’t say that.
I am talking about the comment ” and has declined ever since. ”
When you say that you imply that each year it has gotten worse when in reality this year stopped that trend.
With beltran and reyes in the lineup the guy was a stud and put up his BEST numbers while they were in the lineup.. Check his numbers without them… how can you tell me he’s not in decline? this guy is a good player, not a superstar, not a franchise player like JOE MAUER is, so the notion that the mets have to sign this guy is absurd. he’s not the type of player you build around with, he’s the type of player you sign when you got franchise players around you to maeke the team better.. or you keep when you 100% you are gonna get those franchise players via FA or coming up with the team..
You are not reading. His OPS this year is the highest it has been since 2008. Thus you can’t say that he is still in decline when his OPS is higher.
Do I think that he would be better with more players around him? Duh. Most players would be.
So the guy at 29 years of age had a superb year, and only manage 21 HR and 93 RBI??? What would happen on his down year then??? If the mets are not acquiring good players, no need to have this guy making $18+ million to have numbers that many 3rd baseman in baseball are putting at a much cheaper price… Sell high if i am sandy…
“TRS86 October 8, 2012 at 9:19 am
I am tired of gestures to the fans. That’s how you get guys like Jason Bay. If they are ready to move forward and add the pieces needed to be competitive again in the next couple of years, then re-sign Wright, if not then I don’t need a token gesture just as I didn’t need one that the deadline this year either.”
Alex,
Do you even remotely understand how baseball works? The RBI’s figure DIRECTLY to people getting on base ahead of him. The homeruns measure somewhat to the people around him. If he had anyone of any pedigree protecting him he would get many more pitches to hit. Listen to the people in the booth, they say it all the time. The Met’s lineup is so weak pitchers just need to worry about not letting Wright beat them.
Agreed. It has nothing to do with Wright himself. If you put just Reyes or just Beltran in this lineup you get the same results. Nothing.
which totally explains why on 3 different occasions last year, the opposition walked a batter in front of wright to load the bases…
in those cases, they would RATHER face Wright than…
1 – Duda
2 – Pagan
3 – Murphy
Pagan and Murphy are damn near cold-blooded in the clutch….
When a pitcher bears down on Wright…esp if he has a good FB…Wright is toast…
everyone knows it…and the only reason they are in denial is b/c of Wright’s likability…
If Beltran was as “likable” as Wright, Sandy would’ve NEVER traded him…
but with the mets…its always a popularity contest…
and being a nice guy who smiles at the camera and tells the kids to eat their vitamins and say their prayers adds to the likability factor….
lets call it what it is…if David Wright were a John Kruk type…surly…moody…overweight…ugly…aka…NOT MARKETABLE….dude would’ve been out of here already…
but David is nice, friendly, smiles for the camera, looks like a member of NKOTB, so…yeah he has to be a met for life…
Suckers
or that it was a RHP pitcher with large splits, and those 3 guys all hit lefty?
also have to take into account the situation (outs, other runners) since they could have been setting up a DP chance.
There is not one manager on earth that would have their RHP walk a rookie left-handed hitter batting .260 so they can face Albert Pujols or Alex Rodriguez…or Troy Tulo…
someone on metsblog mentioned it…and i had to think about it for a second…
David did very well…when pitchers pitched around him….not so much when they GO AFTER HIM…
reason being…declining bat speed…
LOL dude. If you are going to argue HRs and RBIs as the end all be all…which is dumb enough as it is. You shouldn’t be citing JOE MAUER as the example of a “superstar” to build around. Mauer hit 10 HRS this year. He’s only had ONE season where he hit more than 15. And he’s only had one season of more than 90 RBI.
Shocker that you want one of the best Met’s position players of all-time gone simply because you don’t like him. He is the PERFECT fit for an NY team, plays a position that has been a black hole in Met’s history, these deals hardly ever pan out for the team trading away the established star, we would be trading away a strength and creating a weakness. Who exactly is going to replace him that consistantly puts up his number?
That for sure has to be considered. If you can’t actually replace Wright’s production by 2014 with the return from the trade then the trade is pointless. Also keep in mind he is basically only taking Bay’s contract.
Where did i say i want him gone in the post? Read again the question and the answer… Again, tell me why this guy who is consider a choke artist the perfect fit for NY? Black hole position? You ever heard of HOJO? Alfonzo? Hell, Even Ventura had a good mini run for us.. STAR?? have you checked how many 3rd baseman put up HIS kinda numbers this year?? Are you seriously this obsess about the guy!?
“Are you seriously this obsess about the guy!?”
I would say, yes you are.
Alex,
Again showing your total cluelessness when it comes to the Mets and baseball all together.
Because YOU think he’s a choke artist DOES NOT make him a choke artist. An interesting stat I heard recently is that of his 21 HRs this year 10 were to either tie the game or put his team ahead. That with an incredibly weak lineup. Real choke, huh?
Yes I have heard of HoJo, Fonzie, and Ventura.
Have you heard of :
Wayne Garrett
Hubie Brooks
Ed Charles
Dave Magadan
Ty Wigginton
Lenny Randle
Ray Knight
Charley Smith
Bobby Bonilla
Ken Boyer
Elliott Maddox
Roy Staiger
Richie Hebner
Gregg Jefferies
Jim Fregosi
Jeff Kent
Bob Aspromonte
Joe Foy
Felix Mantilla
Matt Franco
Joe Torre
Tim Bogar
Charlie Neal
Jim Hickman
Kevin Collins
Rod Kanehl
Butch Huskey
Chico Walker
Joe McEwing
Joel Youngblood
Jerry Buchek
Bobby Klaus
Bobby Pfeil
Bill Pecota
Justin Turner
Todd Zeile
Alex Treviño
Ken Boswell
Tom O’Malley
Chris Donnels
Lenny Harris
Tim Foli
Alvaro Espinoza
Fernando Tatis
Bob Bailor
Ted Martinez
Ed Bressoud
John Stearns
Cliff Cook
Luis Lopez
Daniel Murphy
Desi Relaford
Ron Hunt
Mike Phillips
Jerry Grote
John Valentin
Amado Samuel
Chris Woodward
Ted Schreiber
Pumpsie Green
Tim Teufel
Chuck Hiller
Phil Mankowski
Tucker Ashford
Jay Bell
Sergio Ferrer
Don Zimmer
Johnny Stephenson
Jeff McKnight
Frank Thomas
Bobby Valentine
Mike Cubbage
Joe Moock
Dave Kingman
Fernando Vina
Kevin Mitchell
Bill Spiers
Ron Gardenhire
Wayne Graham
Leo Foster
Keith Miller
Aaron Ledesma
Clint Hurdle
Wally Backman
Bill Almon
Mike Hessman
Danny Napoleon
Melvin Mora
Willie Harris
Carlos Baerga
Sammy Drake
Rick Herrscher
Tommie Reynolds
Julio Franco
Al Weis
Chico Fernandez
Kelvin Chapman
Jack Heidemann
Mike Kinkade
Craig Paquette
Shawn Gilbert
Amos Otis
Doug Saunders
José Moreno
Jorge Velandia
Damion Easley
David Lamb
Jim Tatum
Marco Scutaro
Ronny Cedeño
Miguel Cairo
Sandy Alomar
Mario Ramirez
Junior Noboa
Vinny Rottino
Nick Evans
Bob Heise
Ricky Gutierrez
Ruben Gotay
Gary Carter
Mackey Sasser
Craig Shipley
Al Moran
Kurt Abbott
Doug Flynn
Luis Hernandez
Garry Templeton
Josh Satin
Gary Kolb
Andy Green
Wilson Valdez
Elio Chacon
Larry Burright
Bob Johnson
David Newhan
Shawon Dunston
Kevin Morgan
Jason Hardtke
Steve Springer
Ross Jones
Rich Puig
José Valentin
Eli Marrero
Phil Linz
Manny Alexander
Counting the three you already mentioned, that’s 149 different third basemen in 50 years. YES it has historically been a BLACK HOLE! Funny how you included Venture and mentioned a good run when we couldn’t give him away after he had a great first year here then the wheels feel off.
Right and thanks now to Wright, LF has moved into that black hole status.
231 players and counting there. With only 3 guys playing more than 500 games.
To have even more fun with this.
Lucas Duda is 79th on the list of 231 with 24 games, LOL.
SRT’s favorite LF is 36th on the list with 59.
Man what a putrid list.
Yikes!
Dude, you can say that about ALL METS POSITION PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!! there hasn’t been any position player HOF in franchise history.. All our position have been black holes at some point.. Ed Kranepool, a mediocre player at best was the franchise’s leader in hits… that should tell you all you need to know.. Beltran in 4 years pretty much became the second best OF we’ve ever had.. Come on man.. By far, and this is not even close, REYES Has been the best SS we’ve ever had… EVER. and he was shown the door, where we you with your post and comment about it then huh???? You’re double standar and love affair with this guy is a little worrysome.. Stop it!
To be fair to his point, David Wright has actually played in 400+ more games than the next closest guy on the list at 3B. That’s really bad.
Whoops, I need to pay attention. That was as of 2010.
We have had a blackhole at Catcher…1st base…2nd base…SS…LF…CF…RF…
why on earth do u think 3B is some special position???
after Buddy Harrelson…how many SS did we have locking down that position before Reyes?
Kevin Elster???
Rey Ordonez??
Rafael Santana ????
How about 1B?
we had keith from 83-89…and Delgado from 06-08…..and thats about it….
how about 2B?
how about LF?
how about C?
please spare me
Who says I dont like him? I love Wright. Lets separate fan sentiment and take the emotion out of the decision like I wrote. I think any extension over 4/$75 is a mistake and that a 7/$140 deal would make Sandy Omar’s twin brother.
4/75??? Nooooooooo, he’s not worth $16 million next year, why on earth would you wanna pay this guy $19 million per for the next 4 years after his last on the deal??
I think a deal that includes options and totals six years and around $100 million would be fair for both sides. If he wants that extra year and money, then play for it. If he signs for 5/$80 guaranteed, plus the option, I’d be ok with it. Not sure where 7/$140 comes in, but that would be infuriating.
Lol, someone might take you seriously.
If I am the sandy alderson…. I Woudn’t touch.
Of course not. You have a biased, unmitigated, inexplicable hatred for the guy.
Hatred?? Now because i want the mets to be financially fit for years to come i hate the guy?? He’s not worth the money he’ll demand, sell high while we have the chance to avoid another jason bay albatross contract in our hands. You guys are just amazing.. TRS is pretty much saying the same thing i am saying, yet somehow i HATE the guy personally… SMH
That’s because you do. LOL. Come on Alex. You can’t say the things about him in every post concerning Wright and then say that you don’t dislike him.
Everyone knows I like Wright but again I have and will always be a Mets fan. Fan of the name on the front and not the name on the back. When you become a fan of the name on the back first then you end up with the Reyes situation and blaming Wright for his lack of attention and other garbage.
No, TRS said to re-sign Wright if the Mets are able to add pieces around him. You’re saying to trade him right now because you hate him. Nobody’s buying your desire to see the Mets “financially fit.” If that was the case, Sandy should be your favorite GM ever if all you want is financial stability.
Not to mention the fight and anger when Reyes was allowed to leave and what it would have looked like if he was the one traded instead.
TRS, WTH are you talking about??? again, if the mets are gonna break the 2005-2008 CORE of players, break the CORE for good.. start anew with IKE at the helm and build a team around him. This guy will demand a salary he’ll not live up to, he’s not gonna be worth it, why the need to lock ourselves up financially again with the guy who’s clearly in decline? no matter what you say, but a 21 HR and 93 RBI is not a season of ages.. again, if we’re not gonna have beltran and reyes come trough that door anytime soon, sell high on the guy while we have the chance
This is not an unreasonable argument. I’d disagree only because we don’t know what contract Wright signs for. I’d be fine with 5/$80 and an option. You seem to think it’s too much. That’s fine, too. We can disagree without one of us being called derogatory names. Remember that.
Again you are assuming things we don’t know the answer to:
“This guy will demand a salary he’ll not live up to”
No idea what his contract demands are.
” again, if we’re not gonna have beltran and reyes come trough that door anytime soon,”
Don’t know what pieces they are going to add come 2014.
“sell high on the guy while we have the chance”
Don’t know what the trade offers will be.
There is no simple clear cut answer to any of this and with out more information then we are just voting based on speculation and personal bias.
Xtreem, WHAT DID I SAY THAT WAS DEROGATORY TO YOU??? I was not even talking to you, and all i said was WTH which means what the hell…
I meant generally, not in this specific case. If you recall, I credited you with a valid response to the issue at hand.
Alex you say “sell high” while you also say he’s not even worth the 16mil next year. So who do you think is going to “buy high” and give us something of value? Its not happening. Wright will not net us anything near major league ready. As a result he will not be traded. He’s either gonna walk after option year, or the mistakes of the past will be repeated.
Is A Longterm Deal For Wright In Mets’ Best Interest?
YES!! YES!! YES!!
I’s a no-brainer. Are the Yankees regretting signing Jeter to a long-term deal? NO! Just as Jeter is the face on their francihise, Wright’s ours and deserves to be that for years to come.
Wow… Just wow… Now you’re comparing a sure as hell HOF with this guy?? A guy who by then had 3 Rings already, a CLUTCH hitter, a good player who was on his way to superstar status to a guy who is a good player who clearly needed big time hitters around him to be great? You guys need to really stop this nonsense…
The big deference there is; they Yanks can and do over pay guys and will keep out spending their mistakes. They have a ton of bad contracts filled with old and under performing players. Only getting 75% of a former all start, gets overlooked because they have 7-8 of them playing everyday, they keep winning and no one freaks out.
Most teams, especially the Mets can’t over spend their mistakes.
Jeter is unique because he’s not the guy required to carry the team. The one thing I give Jeter the biggest credit for is knowing that he’s not there to hit HR’s or drive in runs…he’s always had someone else responsible for doing that…he had plenty of power that he doesn’t have to use, he knows it’s more important for him to slap the ball the other way and get things moving…let the power hitters behind him take big cuts and strike out. As good has Jeter has been, dose he really deserve the money he got for his last two contracts? No one besides the Yanks would ever give anyone like Jeter that type of deal.
-3 years/$51M (2011-13), plus 2014 player option
re-signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 12/6/10
11:$15M, 12:$16M, 13:$17M, 14:$8M player option ($3M buyout)
$2M annually deferred without interest, payable each 3/15, 2015-17 (present-day AAV about $16M)
2014 option may increase to $17M based on awards earned in 2011-13: $4M for AL MVP; $2M for 2nd-6th in MVP vote; $1.5M for Silver Slugger; $0.5M each for Gold Glove, ALCS MVP, WS MVP
if 2014 option is exercised at less than $17M, Jeter may earn same bonuses in 2014, up to $17M
-10 years/$189M (2001-10)
signed extension with Yankees 2/01 (avoided arbitration, $18.5M-$14.25M)
$16M signing bonus (paid in 16 $1M installments 1/30 & 6/30, 2001-08)
01:$11M, 02:$13M, 03:$14M, 04:$17M, 05:$18M, 06:$19M, 07-09:$20M/year, 10:$21M
no-trade clause
Sadly, Wright doesn’t have that option…he has to be the 20HR 90RBI guy…if he stuck to his approach the first half of last year…then I’d feel better about him…but having a 35 year old Wright with a slower bat trying to uppercut HR’s because he’s got no support around him isn’t something that will end well.
Wright was great this year without much around him. He was also great in 2007 without any “great” production from the rest of the team. Delgado was awful that year, Reyes wasn’t all that good. Beltran was good, but his OPS was nearly 100 points below Wright’s.
Meanwhile Jeter has never not had great players around him. And if Wright were to put up a typical Jeter type season people would kill him for being terrible and losing his power.
Yes, Jeter has won and players tend to be more inclined to keep players of successful teams. But Jeter is far from the only reason the Yankese won. If him and his 117 OPS+ was the best bat on the Yankees year in year out, they wouldn’t sniff the postseason
I’d be more comfortable with a 5-6 deal, but contracts aren’t negotiated and signed for comfort.
Again, we are attempting this without the needed information.
We need to know the following and honestly NONE of us have a clue what the answers are:
1) What is the actual contract that Wright would agree to sign?
2) What are the actual trade proposals that Alderson would have on the table?
3) What are the Mets plans starting in 2014 to surround Wright if re-signed with a competitive team?
Until those 3 are answered how could anyone make a logical decision?
This is a tough one, because it’s based on sentiment. David Wirght represents the best of a baseball player: talented; competitive; loyal; a good citizen; one of the top 3 home-grown players in a dozen years, et cetera. And my favorite Met since he joined the big club.
But yeah, it’d b a big mistake to sign him to a 7-year deal. A 4-year deal for ~$80mm would be fair and sensible, but this is the business of baseball–so that;s a fantasy.
i agree wtih Joe. We should trade DW this off-season and keep Ike–but the reverse will likely occur.
Another tough one, is should we extend RA DIckey or trade him this winter? Sounds insane to advocate trading RA who’s ben the best pitcher we’ve had for past 3 years and another idealk citizen and a downright gritty competitor anybody wuld love on their team.
But i say trade RAD because he’s coming off what would be one of the better seasons of most pitching careers, and because we’ve got a cluster of above-average pitchers on the cusp of MLB: Harvey, Wheeler, Mejia, Familia…and behind them,Mazzoni, Pill, Tapia, Fulmer, Mateo, Robles, Ynoa. i admit, a lot can happen to baby pitchers on their journey to the bigs, but that’s a deep cluster of potential MLB pitchers in the incubator.
So, isay trade DW and RAD and get 1 – 2 MLB guys or MLB-ready prospects + a couple of top prospects in A – AA.
We should think like anaylsts here–not fans. Okay, shoot me.
BOB, again, sell high while we have the opportunity, we should’ve did that after the 2008 season when delgado had a great season and his option was for $12 million, we had the chance to sell high, instead we kept him and look what happened. Wright’s best years are behind him unless you bring back reyes and beltran back in the team, and dickey will not have the same success he had this year.. Sell high!!!!
LOL at Reyes being the reason Wright was successful. Seriously? LOL.
But besides that again we don’t even know if it is selling high. We only assume we know what the trade offers would be. Too much assuming for now.
Alex68 — Sell high? Some guys never learn. Reyes thought he was selling high and 29 teams didn’t want him. Maybe Reyes should have sold a little lower. LOL. Have a good day, my friend Alex.
LOL since when is a guy who is scheduled to make 20 Mil a year not wanted or didn’t get decent offers?
Yeah Reyes was so stupid and his agent screwed the pooch to accept a measly 100+ Mil contract he should have held out for 210 Mil instead!
LOL
Wow, a guy who got paid $106 million sold low… ??? You my friend then got a loser mentality….
…and i forgot Montero. Admittedly, these last 8 pitching prospects behind Harvey, Wheeler, Mejia, Familia are 3 – 4 years away at best, but that’s the deepest pool of superior – solid pitching prospects we’ve had in a long long time.
Next year’s rotation without RAD, would be Santana, Niese, Gee, Harvey, Mejia…and liely Wheeler later in the year.
David Wright is home grown and he wants to stay and we should keep him but only if we can improve the team around him. The thing we must do in my opinion is try to sign Michael Bourn to a three year 30 million dollar contract. He would leadoff and solidify the outfield. Bourn, Tejada, Wright, Davis, Murphy, Duda, Bay and the catcher of the day. I like our pitching and Parnell looked like a closer the last week of the season and trying to fix our bullpen is an issue but acquiring Bourn and signing Wright is the key to a successful off season. Bourn could add 10 wins for this team. Not enough but a start.
” Bourn could add 10 wins for this team. ”
We do this every year with the top FA. No Bourn isn’t going to add 10 wins to this Mets team. Even if you don’t believe in WAR there certainly is no way Bourn is adding 10 wins.
I disagree but could have been clearer in my analysis. I should have said considering the maturation of the pitching staff, keeping Wright and having a LEGITIMATE leadoff hitter in Bourn and one of the BEST defensive outfielders in baseball I can absoulutely see a 10 win improvement. I am giving myself kudos this year as I predicted out of spring training 75 wins and we got 74. We need Bourn and is really our only option for centerfield because everybody else we can’t afford but he is affordable.
Bourn will not be affordable. Bourn will get a nine-figure contract.
Possibly but I don’t believe he is in that “elite” staus of an Upton or Josh Hamilton let’s say. The biggest knock on Bourn is his strikeouts as a leadoff hitter. I think he is an 8-10 million dollar a year guy and if I am right and the Mets can’t afford that then we will be cleaning toilets in the NL East for many years to come.
I agree with you that he’s not worth nine figures and he’s only worth $8-$10 mil a year. I guarantee he or his agent disagrees and will seek nine figures. Someone will probably give it to him.
Come on 10 wins? Pujols isn’t even a 10 win player.
You have every right to be skeptical of my 10 win improvement with Bourn BUT if you can’t project improvement then let him be and continue on this path of medicority. What I should have said is “in addition to Bourn and with a real good starting staff, and Parnell maturing as a closer and maybe a trade to upgrade the catching position without giving away the farm, yes I could see a 10 game improvement. I know if elephants could fly but I truly believe I am not crazy. He immensely improves the lineup as a leadoff guy and Tejada’s natural batrting position is second. Bourn gets on steals or Tejhada advances him and the big guns come up in Wright and Dav is. He did this for Atlanta all year and they are a 94 win team. I am not comparing us to the Braves but they’ll tell you what a key player he is.
Well if he is indeed a 10 win player then the Braves would have no reason to let him go and the Phillies and Nats will be all over him so point is moot anyway. To me he is an Omar type deal.
I can see we are both firm in our positions and I suspect there’s a little truth in each of our positions but I would like to see him as a Met.
I would like to see you in CF over Torres. LOL.
Only if the beer vendor makes deliveries.
He will be Met for the end of his career. His contract will be longer in terms less on money. i see him signing for something like Griffey did to play in Cincy. Griffeys contract was 9/112 mill. Wrights contract im guessing something along the lines of 7/105. an average of 15 million a year,not to devastating for the team. Still enough to make David happy.
We’re not gonna be competitive in 2013.. that’s one more year wasted from the guy. then, most likely we’ll have him for 4 to 5 years when his decline will be unquestionable and who knows what pieces we’ll have offensively other than ike davis. Other than Wilmer Flores who can we say we’ll be ready to step in in 2014? Give me a break guys, unless we are commited to have good players in the lineup, we should not bring him back and waste his good years left.. Sell high while we have the chance is all i am saying.. Would any of you would be content with extending wright this year and then do NOTHING ELSE to improve the team?? Don’t the mets have a LOSING Record with this guy as the “Face of the Franchise”? am i missing something here?
Again Alex, do you know any of the answers to the questions I provided that one would need to form a logical conclusion?
Why should Wright be handled any differently than Reyes was? So Reyes is not worth Crawford money, but Wright is? Why?What happened to these arguments:
1. We never won anything with Wright.
2. We will still suck with or without him.
3. By time Nimmo/Cecchini is ready he’ll be mid 30s.
4. Figures he has a big year now that it’s contract time.
5. Why should we pay him more money for his declining years.
6. Why should one player make 20% of our payroll.
7. He’s been on the DL 3 of last 4 years.
I WONDER why nobody is saying these things about Wright like they did for Reyes? Especially when they are all equally true arguments for both.
BX Mets, ohhhhh, trust me we did…. Then of course we were pegged as hating the man personally… Thought you knew this?!?!? Just look up most of the comments i made and see how many i hate the man comments i’ve gotten… This discussion has been presented, somehow this guy is pegged as a franchise player, when the reality is, this franchise has a losing record with him being the Main guy .. Just saying..
I think really the key to this discussion is number 7, the DL history. David Wright was beaned in the head and had suffered a broken back (and played through it).
Reyes’ game is built on his legs. Legs that had caused him to miss significant time recently and would only get worse with age.
These are two entirely different situations when you consider injury risk vs years of a contract and add to it which of their playing styles would MOST be affected by age.
Wait, so wright’s game is built on power, and he has a broken back already.. so, shouldn’t that concern you? the fact that he’d be a 10-20 HR guy with no CLUTCH Genes and making $17+ Million a year?? Why that excuse is made for reyes and not for wright… Please don’t compare the cases… Pretty much same scenario in terms of the built game for both players…
1. I didn’t compare the cases, BXMets did. I was responding to his/her comparison.
2. Wright’s game is not built on power. Just because he’s had a history of 30+ homers does not make him a typical power hitter. Also, he’s had more 20+ homer seasons than not, the most recent one being this year. He’s not a “10-20 HR guy.”
3. Absolutely not the same scenario with regard to the most important aspect of these two player’s play style. Not even close. I don’t know what to tell you if you can’t see that.
Check his last 4 years and get back at me… He’s avg 17 HR’s per season… Not sure what part of being a 10-20 HR guy offended you…
Since 2009, Wright’s averaged 22 home runs per 162 games played. It’s easy to twist facts when you A) include the season he missed time with a broken back and B) start your criteria the only subpar power year he had. Why not start with 2008? Because he hit 33 home runs that year?
Over his entire career he’s averaged 22+. See, I can manipulate the stats to look how I want them too…
Don’t give me that CRAP about 22 HR per 162 games, if we go by that Reyes would be a HOf right now… also, have YOU been paying attention??? We said from the get go that w/o beltran in the lineup or since he’s been pegged the face of the franchise he’s been mediocre.. which started in 2009…
Really what does it matter if it’s 17 or 22? Is it that big of a deal? What is much more important is the BA, OBP and OPS. RBI’s will be a nature of who’s on in front of him and what spot you bat in the order and I really don’t care if he hits 15 or 25 HR as long as those other numbers are up.
If I recall, Beltran was still a Met after 2008. I could be wrong.
Better yet, with the guys taking the pressure off of him, he avg 29 HR and 112 RBI from 2005-2008.
Without them, he’s avg 18 HR and 82 RBI… Go ahead and manipulate that…
So without people in the lineup protecting him behind him and getting on base in front of him, he’s not producing as much. Wow. Great analysis. I know, let’s blame Cabrera for not winning the triple crown in each year he did not have Prince Fielder protecting him in the lineup and A-Jax having a career year in front of him.
Wright hit just fine with little protection in the FIVE hole in 2004-2005-2006-2007…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?id=wrighda03&t=b
then when he sucks more ass than a porn star…met fans have to look for excuses…
I’m not sure what you’re trying to get me to concede to here. That 18 HR and 82 RBI from a 3B are bad when playing for a bad team? Or that players’ numbers are generally better when the rest of the players on their team don’t suck?
Wright’s stats with:
hit post by accident…
Wright’s stats with:
bases empty- 296/375/493
runners on base- 306/387/520
runners in scoring position- 295/389/486
How is that not clutch?
Useless to defend this argument. It will go nowhere. Remember he struck out that time.
Didn’t Beltran do that too?
Who said his game is built on power? There are actually more than just 2 types of players.
You keep saying his “NO CLUTCH” genes, and wonder why people keep telling you that your responses are based on hate? Half his homeruns gave the team the lead or tied the game this year, that is so not clutch. If anyone says anything remotely kind, you call them obsessed, keep on wondering why people say you are basing your answers on hate. SMH ($1 Alex68)
if u hit a HR in the top of the 1st…u technically gave ur team the lead…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?id=wrighda03&t=b
Wright hits HR
Innings 1-3 = 80
Innings 4-6 = 79
Innings 7-end = 45
2004 -1
2005 -0
2006 -1
2007 -2
2008 – 2
2009 – 3
2010 -1
2011 -0
2012 – 1
In the past 3 years, Wright has hit only 2 HR in the 9th inning…
Here is another 3B…Miguel Cabrera
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?id=wrighda03&t=b
Miguel has twice as many HR in the 9th inning as Mr. Wright…
Miguel has 5 walk-off HR…to Wright’s 1…
Miguel has hit no less than 30 HR just once in his entire career..and thats with very sketchy lineups in Florida…
do u want me to continue or are u done trying to defend Wright’s “clutchness” ?
Carry on if you believe a homerun is the only measurement of clutch.
RISP
2008 – http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=wrighda03&year=2008&t=b#bases
2009 – http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=wrighda03&year=2009&t=b#bases
2010 – http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=wrighda03&year=2010&t=b#bases
2011 – http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=wrighda03&year=2011&t=b#bases
2012 – http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=wrighda03&year=2012&t=b#bases
Basically..
2008 – sucked
2009 – decent ( in the 1st half )
2010 – sucked
2011 – sucked
2012 – decent ( again..in the 1st half )
Wright from April-June was lights out in 2009-2010 + 2012…
Wright from July –October has been a total failure from 2009-2010-2011-2012…
these are facts dude…no matter how ugly they are…
Everyone is saying that about Wright making Crawford money. Find one person who said the Mets should pay Wright Crawford money.
Provided that Wright is able to rebound, asking for a six-year, $100 million contract extension wouldn’t be out of the question. Based on how much value Wright produces this year, it’s possible that the number could rise to about $120 million.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-david-wright-worth-100-million/
Fangraphs thought Wright was worth that much in April.
Six years, $100 million is fair, provided there’s an option and Wright has to play for and earn that final year. Frankly, I’d sign Wright for 20 years/$400 mill, so long as 15 years and $320 mil are club options. If he wants it, let him earn it. What we have here are Wright haters lying about the premise (he wants Crawford money) in order to lash out at people for supporting signing Wright.
You are right about the 2nd point. We don’t even have one single idea what the Wright camp wants. They have been silent. Unlike with Reyes where we knew early it was 100M or bust.
I’m pretty sure ACES wont say $50 million or bust, or $75 million or bust. Especially when half of their clients are walking out the door. I’m thinking $125 million or bust with full no trade clause..
Then he walks. Or is traded.
Wright really doesn’t need a no trade clause. He will be 10-5 by then anyway.
show me one quote where the reyes camp stated they were looking for 100 mil before free-agency began…
dont worry…
I’ll wait…
All very good arguments and all relevant to Wright.
Add this to it as well. Possible steroids or PED use when he was peaking and subsequent tail-off after Mitchell Report.
Then there it this newsflash:
Dodgers outfielder Shane Victorino became the first player to leave the embattled Levinsons’ ACES agency, and people around baseball are wondering whether others will follow.
MLB and the union are investigating possible links to steroids and PEDs by the prominent Brooklyn-based ACES agency.
David Wright, Dustin Pedroia, Jonathan Papelbon and Josh Reddick are among the biggest stars in the Levinson stable, believed to be the second- or third-largest in baseball. Victorino’s decision to leave was frst reported by Liz Mullen of Sports Business Journal. Victorino is a free agent after the year and will be expected to hire a new agent now.
Many of their other prominent ACES clients are believed to have been weighing whether to stay with the Brooklyn-based Seth and Sam Levinson. Baseball sources say the agency came into MLB’s crosshairs when one of their employees, Juan Nunez, was said to have concocted a fake Internet ad in an effort to explain client Melky Cabrera’s failed drug test.
The benchmark for Wrights contract is probably what zimmerman got, 6/100mil.
The Mets will sign David Wright to an extension above $100MM and for at least 5-7 years. To me, this is beyond insane. It’s not an improvement to sign a player that to contract entering his would be age 31 season. It is not wise for a mid-market team (we’re like 14th in payroll) to allocate that much of the budget to one player, and a declining one at that.
We all want the Mets to improve and be a consistent winner, re-upping David Wright is not even good enough to say it’s repeating the mistakes of the past (i.e. Omar’s moves). Omar’s moves yielded winning seasons and way more competitive baseball. Re-upping Wright is Kranepooling the fan base by keeping a player just so you can have your legacy Met. You know who are just as loved if not even more than Wright…Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, and Mike Piazza. They were all players that were brought in from the outside and still loved.
If the Mets want to win soon, they have to move Wright for pieces. Last season multiple outlets had the Rockies willing to offer a power catcher, a legit rotation arm, and one or two more high prospects. That was after a down year. How much do you think Wright could fetch now? Moving right can bring in hitting prospects to an organization that has ONE…that is close to the big leagues. Let the Wright market develop and move him to the highest bidder that fits your needs.
The money saved from Wright’s extension can be used to bring in even more guys to cover our many wholes. This team can have financial flexibility immediately if they trade Wright for pieces and even Dickey. That will yield $20MM additionally this offseason, coupled with $50MM next offseason. How much more flexibility do you need??
Move Wright for a big time prospect. I’m not talking guys in A Ball or without unbelievable potential (oh and still yet cheap). I’m talking Will Middlebrooks, Nick Castellanos, Oscar Taveras, Mike Olt, Miguel Sano type prospects. And then use your saved money to bring in two more OF prospects. Under this scenario the Mets lose Wright, but could conceivably add say Will Middlebrooks, and any of the two following OFs (Bourn, B.J., Ross, Pagan). in max 4 year deals.
Tell me that’s not a better team for 2013, and our future.
great post.
Actually multiple outlets did NOT have the Rockies proposal. All that was one reporter speculating on a potential match-up. Period.
And Rosario is a terrible defensive catcher and likely won’t stay there. Which gives the Mets yet another player with a plus bat for a catcher, but average bat for a corner position and no defense. Good plan.
Not only that but the Rockies have rebuffed this notion and say they are very happy with their current 3B situation.
Sounds nice but again you are assuming you know the answer to any of the following:
1) What is the actual contract that Wright would agree to sign?
2) What are the actual trade proposals that Alderson would have on the table?
3) What are the Mets plans starting in 2014 to surround Wright if re-signed with a competitive team?
TRS86,
1. Unless Wright loves the Mets way more than you and I both and his family and agents have no say, he’s not taking less than say what Zimmerman got. He “means” justa s much to this team and is in a larger market too.
2. Let Wright’s trade market develop and it will reap top prospects. In modern era I believe on 3B (who has moonlighted at other positions too and yes is way better than Wright) has a higher WAR so far, Miggy. I don’t care what anyone thinks about WAR, teams pay attention to it. Wright would and should reap top prospects. If Beltran half a season and with no picks attached to him can reap Wheeler, Wright can reap prospects.
3. The so-called Mets plans are in consequential. In this scenario they freem up an additional $20MM this offseason coupled with $50MM next offseason. Even if they keep payroll at the mid-market $95-100MM number, this is GREAT flexibility. If they can go even higher…even better.
You are assuming all of those things and I have no desire to play the assumption game. What is the point?
Educated guesses my friend. Based on evidence of what’s happened before. Number one is an assumption, but I’ll stand by it. Number two and three are realities, and the truth shall set you free dear friend.
Sorry Hank but until we actually know the answer to those questions then they are just assumptions with no truth attached.
You also have to remember that the Mets paid every cent of Beltran’s contract. I don’t care what the Mets do with Wright, so long as it’s the best decision moving forward for the organization. But no team is going to give top prospects for Wright if the Mets don’t pony up cash.
” I don’t care what the Mets do with Wright, so long as it’s the best decision moving forward for the organization.”
Bingo.
And assuming we know the answers to those questions is pointless.
so long as it’s the best decision moving forward for the organization.”
So my opinion is the best decision is to sell high.. He’s not worth the reports of salary being thrown out there..
That’s fair. Turn it around, though. What would you sign him for? What’s your bottom line, drop dead offer to Wright?
Honestly, to apeace the fanbase, you i’d offer the guy 5/75…
And I would guarantee 5/80. See, we’re not so different, you and I. Would you let him play for an option year?
xreemicon. Yeah, sure why not… Option for a 6th year with at bats closure. kinda like jason bay. No trade clause, 5 year with a 6th year option based on 500+ at bats, DONE…
My option would be based on performance as well, not just at bats. He could have 500 ABs and suck. In 500 ABs, hit.280, have a .340 OBP, hit 20 home runs. Something like that.
Then your option would be illegal
They can’t base the options on counting stats. Only things like games played, PA, Innings pitched, games finished…
You could give bonuses based on MVP voting or ASG appearances.
If he sucks, he won’t get 500 at bats…
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean a vesting option. I mean a club option, but that would be my criteria. I wouldn’t exercise it if he didn’t match reasonable numbers,
Alex: you’d like to think so, but they kept trotting Bay out there whenever he was healthy.
See a club option is much different and would be flexible enough for things like, say Wright was injured in the first half but came back and hit .300 and 20 HR. Might not be enough to meet your criteria but it’s just random numbers anyway.
Alex is also right, in theory the reason you attach PA is for protection for both sides. It protects the player from just being used and released and it protects the organization from being attached to a non-productive player. The difficulties arise when the player isn’t great but you have no alternatives.
TRS: true, but an injury is enough of a reason to decline an option as solid numbers are to exercise it. If I wanted .300, 20 out of Wright for a season, and he hits that by say, 8/15 then misses 50 games with a back issue, I would still think about declining the option, especially if it was for $20 mil or something.
But it just depends on when that injury occurs is my point. That is the reason that you wouldn’t ever see a team lock themselves into random numbers as a reason to pick up a club option. They would look at a variety of things.
Agreed.
Alex, who is throwing out those reports? Is it the same ones that say that you are selling high? We have no idea what the contract demands are or the return in trade. It’s futile at this point.
If Wright signs for 5/80, that’s on par with what he makes in 2013. That’s your opinions. Mine is that he’s looking for a deserved raise. Also, the Rockies trade idea was simply, he had value after a bad season, that value is only improved now. Also, the idea of moving Wright is getting prospects AND using the $16MM freed up to bring in MLB free agent talent, like say two outfielders.
I don’t believe we need to pay money to trade Wright. As stated earlier, we got Wheeler for half a season of Beltran, when the Giants couldn’t even offer arbitration and get draft picks. Wright for a full season when the team can offer arbitration and get picks should be able to bring in a good bounty.
Actually no I never said you could sign Wright for anything. I haven’t the slightest what he will demand or the Mets will offer.
As to your point on how much Wright will bring, we have no idea there either. Only that it would be more if they could pay his salary. That’s obvious.
Hi XtreemIcon,
I believe the Mets were able to save $4 million of what they would have had to pay Beltran for the remainder of the contract and that Sandy himself stated he was disappointed that he couldn’t re-invest that $4 million back into the team. He said that in a link I provided quite a while back along with another one where he said if he could get a prospect for Carlos he would have then looked into monetary considerations. So, just like Reyes, Sandy was dumping Beltran no matter what.
LOL. The Beltran trade had nothing to do with the cash Joey. Come on how many times? If they had wanted to just dump him for cash and that was their primary concern then they would have just traded him with no cash attached for a Chris Carter. Remember him? That was a salary dump.
HI TRS
The mistake both EXTREEM and I made was on the finances. Ex said the Mets paid every cent of Beltran’s salary and I said they saved $4 million. Actually, it was approximately $2.5 million of Beltran’s remaining salary that the Mets get off the hook with New York giving the Giants that $4 million of Beltran’s remaining $6.5 million.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-28/mets-trade-carlos-beltran-to-giants-for-minor-league-pitcher-zack-wheeler.html
But Beltran was gone nonetheless. As I had quoted Sandy Alderson, he said if a top prospect wasn’t available he would have then entertained financial considerations. He was shopping Carlos around as early as December, 2010 with Boston and said he began having discussions with many teams around the first of July last year.
Where did Sandy say he would have traded him for cash?
You mis-remembered, Andy. The Mets sent $4 mil to the Giants, not saved it.
I think to the credit the Mets still owed him around 6M and they sent 4M so they saved 2M LOL. Yeah that is what the deal was about, the 2M they saved. I am sure they couldn’t have made that up in revenue if they kept him. LOL.
I never took the Beltran contract as a bad signing. On the contrary it was arguably the best free agent signing in Mets history so to compare Wright’s possible new contract to his in the context of bad.
Whatever ends up being done with Wright should be looked at as is this the best move for the Mets going forward? In that context I would not like to see another year where we lose another of our home grown All Stars.
Wright is not the problem at 3rd base. For all this talk about his decline Wright over the last 3 years if you looked at some of his production numbers over the last 3 years coming into the last series of the season compared to some of the best 3b in MLB he does not fall toward the bottom half of them.
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ApxE2V-jZhJHdFJjT185Sll0aE9mX0N6UEdpYkJpLWc&single=true&gid=2&output=html
That being said I do not believe it is smart to guarantee Wright years beyond the age of 36. They can use options in some creative way but you want to have some type of out.
So the answer to the question is if by longterm one means 6 or more years No with the possible exception of how options are structured into it if at all.
…so to compare Wright’s possible new contract to his in the context of bad. I do not see the comparison.
Agreed, I said that sheet was nice work at the time.
It really is based on what the demands are. If it’s 5 additional years at 80-90M with option years attached at the end then you have something to discuss. If it really was something like 7/140 then what is there to discuss? Of course that being said if those are the numbers that actually come out then you can forget the type of return you are wishing in trade as well as he would clearly be just a rental.
First thing that popped out at me in this article was that Beltran and bad contract comment.
Glad you clarified that here b/c I’m in 100% agreement about it being one of the best contracts the Mets ever gave out – injuries and all.
Who in their right baseball mind thinks the Beltran signing was a bad one?
I don’t see it either.
I also don’t have a problem with 2 other deals in that time. Johan and Pedro. Both were because of need not just to appease fans.
Joey D.
The closest to the trading of a Mets popular player an he was an allstar on a bad team was Lee Mazzili for Ron Darling. But we need tons of advanced prospects that in a year or two are shovel ready to speed up the rebuilding process.
Hi Hotstreak,
100 percent wri…., err right.:)
I just wanted to point out the similarities between the two and that after 1964 Mel was stuck whereas David has an option that the Sr. Stoytlemeyer never had.
anyone think the mets could get gerardo parra for david wright? I think it would really work for both sides.
Come on, that is a 25 year old LH LF that hit : .273 .335 .392 .727.
Really?
uh yeah, really. He’s not a free agent until 2016 and he’s the best defensive left fielder in the game(not including trout or bourjos). Remember any team that trades for David Wright only gets a year out of him, so the mets won’t be getting any superstars.
If that’s all we get for Wright then I am content with letting him play out the deal and get the draft picks after a qualifying offer.
Trading Wright is going to have a comino affect this team will not recover from not for 10 years at least….
You Trade Wright you might as well Trade Dickey because he won’t sign a new contract either without him. Attendance will also decline and cost us more in revenue than it cost to keep Wright.
Then the same excuses that have been used to send away 3 other All Stars will eventually get applied to Davis, and he will go too.
At that point (maybe 2-3 years) Harvey and Wheeler will look the way Gio Gonzales looked to the A’s because we will be in a similar situation and they will go too.
All the while we sit in the basement.
Sandy will be remembered as the sequel to M.Donald Grant and for 10 years the team will suck until it gets enough top overall draft picks to hit on the next guy we are willing to call face of, or the FRANCHISE.
The only way this trade of wright can work is if they immediatly take the money they would have spent on him and sign someone better with it.
Anyone who thinks that might happen come talk to me about a bridge sale.
Don’t know what the FO is going to do regarding Wright but I’m pretty sure it will have nothing to do with: ‘…Alderson will succumb to the shouts and cries of the fans and give the people what they want.’
If that’s how they rolled, Reyes would still be here and they would have been more active in acquiring players at the trade deadline the last two years and in the off season.
If there’s one thing we can be pretty sure of is that this FO doesn’t much give a fig about fans sentiment right now. It’s all business. It’s about the money and nothing but the money. Get the Wilpon’s Mets solvent in the short term. In the long term, start building a top notch organization that will be more or less self sustaining.
‘If you build it, they will come’.
If/when that pla comes together, the fans being happy will take care of itself. Everyone loves a winner.
*If/when that plan
You are right and thankfully so. They needed to move away from making decisions based solely on fan approval.
And while they do that Attendance and finances get worse and worse!
I think some forget that the goal of running a baseball team is less about winning and more about getting people to come see you.
the A’s made the playoffs and still haven’t broken 2 Mmil in attendance for all those who think winning is what drives the current year’s attendance and not Pre-Season season Ticket sales that are sold before the first game is even played.
If you do what your audience doesn’t like too often you lose that audience and if that happens you don’t just lose Wright you lose EVERYONE because your the Pirates and can’t keep a decent player due to lack of attendance!
‘And while they do that Attendance and finances get worse and worse!’
For 2013, I agree with you. Not unless they have some type of Cinderella year.
I really believe they’re crossing their fingers with 2013, then with the revenues from hosting the ASG and Johan/Bay’s contracts off the books after the end of the year, they believe they’ll be in much better shape financially.
Of course that has and will be their thought process since day one. Just gotta hope it works.
And I’m sure this current FO will stick with the plan that you don’t need to spend ‘Yankee type money’ to have a contending team. Just look at what went down this year and what teams are in post season now.
Sure, the Yankees are in. They made sure, they always make sure. But they blew a 10 game lead or better coming into Aug and it took them until game 162 to win the division. Dangerously close.
With their FO saying they want to get their payroll under 189 MIL, and how close they came to blowing it – I’ll be very curious to see how they play this going forward.
- As, Orioles are perfect examples of how you can do it without a billion dollar payroll.
- Braves with their medium market type payroll, excellent scouting and player development
- On the other side of the coin are the Angels and Dodgers – both who spent big bucks this season…and where are they? On the golf course with the Mets right now.
I don’t think this group is even saying never spend money. It is saying however to spend when appropriate and right now you could do like the Marlins and spend an extra 75M and it wouldn’t do a dang thing. Just think in 2011 we spent 140M and got 3 more wins than this year?
And define WHEN it is appropriate to these guys….
Cause it seems to have something about the first tuesday after a rainy day when the planets are in a certain alignment in Years a Groundhog doesn’t see his shadow and sees a rainbow instead.
People think that the All Star game is going to be a boon to the Wilpons. At best it will help them maintain the few Season ticket holders they have because they will get a crack at ASG tickets but for the most part most of the ASG money goes to the MLB not the team.
And once it’s done so too is the boon in sales.
You guys keep counting that Bay/Santana money but if they were to go today you know what would be left to spend?
About 25-27 Mil more than we spend now!
Because they lost 23 Mil and they will only save 50 Mil from both of them.
And thats assuming Attendance doesn’t drop so much that they lose another 50 Mil which is quite possible if they lose Wright and as a result also lose Dickey.
And knowing that for every 160K of attendance you lose roughly 20 MIl in Revs, How much will we have to cut just from the loss of attendance caused by the loss of Wright and Dickey?
I roughly estimate it at about another 40-50 Mil in losses.
Well Poof goes the Bay/Santana Savings.
We have NO STARS, NO REVENUE, and no chance to fix it because we managed to do nothing but cut payroll and lose more games at a cheaper rate.
Sandy didn’t say he’d never sign a second generation contract. He said he’d pick his spots about doing so.
If you never sign a second generation FA, you are essentially never going to sign anybody. More and more teams are buying out at least a couple of their players FA years.. So what are you never going to ever sign a guy who has 7+ yrs in the bigs to a mutli year deal?? That’s not exactly the best way to do business. And if you are going to pick some spots, paying a guy who has already been great for your team seems like a good pick. You don’t have to worry about the NY adjustment stuff….and he plays a relatively hard to fill position, and its not like he’s “old”
And I’d love to have more guys who can post an OPS+ over 140 and a WAR of 7.8 and have it be considered a “decline”
That was my point kinda. Hard to be in “decline” ever since 2008 when this past year was actually 30 points higher in OPS+ than the previous year. You would have to consider this year a rebound, not another step in decline.
Have you consider for maybe a tiny second, that his Best year in the past 4 had something to do with that extension..?? Have you actually thought about him having his best year in the last 4 seasons due to having his contract extension looming?? Or you guys only use that analogy for certain players?
That’s a good question. It’s certainly possible but that would also assume that he wasn’t healthy in 2011 because his contract wasn’t up. The guy was playing through a broken back so I would think that had a lot to do with 2011. 2010 he had 29 HR and 103 RBI so you had to love that season right?
Also, Wright is guaranteed to make more money than he ever has next season. He’s not playing for a contract. The extension is solely on the Mets, not any other team to offer, because he’s not a free agent. If an extension isn’t signed, then Wright is playing for a contract.
True, logically I can’t think that Wright this year would be playing hard for the extension. However, I guess there is still the possibility.
Nope, I haven’t. Because that theory is nonsense and I didn’t apply it to “other players” either. And he still had the option which the Mets were going to pick up regardless (like they did with Reyes after 2010 despite the poor year). So unless he got traded and the option was voided…it wasn’t even his “FA year”
Very true, so that would be like saying that Reyes was actually playing for his contract in 2010 and choked.
Alex,
These people clamoring for Wright to be signed are all going to get what they want and that’s more of the same. Mediocrity.
If they ham string these team by signing an over-rated choke artist who is NO face of the franchise, who is an average fielding third baseman who’s had many bad throws saved by Delgado and Davis, not a bright baseball guy, doesn’t hustle but is a good hitter. That’s all he does.
He has no presence, teams don’t fear him, he plays everyday but it’s a soft presence, & hasn’t taken out a fielder at 2B in his entire career.
If the Mets want to pay 100 million for that and CHOKE this organization for years to come then go right ahead at least his fan base will be happy.
The ONLY way to go about this off season is move your biggest chip and that’s Wright and you build around players like Niese and Ike Davis. It’s time to turn the page, no more of the same old same old. It’s time to give the organization a new face and a new look. And I don’t want to move Wright for prospects I want to move him for major league ready talent as the main catch and maybe a prospect thrown in because if you trade Wright for just prospects than the big league club is WORSE because you lost a right-hand bat with power, the team will be worse and you”ll have even less fans coming into the park. You have to replace that right-handed bat with power with the same and prospects is not going to get you that and getting major league ready talent for Wright is the way to go.
I know Wright could be considered a rental but hey, if you’re looking to move him here’s the price. You want him or not? If not then look elsewhere until you get the best deal for you and THAT includes trying to initiate a 3-way deal too where you can be the part that can bring 2 teams together and finalize a deal whereas they would not be able to.
Start trying to compete NOW and not 2 or 3 years from now. The team has been rebuilding for 2 years already now some fans (mostly saber and sandy lovers) suddenly…SUDDENLY are now talking about rebuilding now as if it hasn’t supposed to be already happening for 2 years. I guess you can’t look at it too much like that because the GM has been doing such a horrific job cutting costs while trying to remain competitive at the same time. And that’s exactly what has been happening.
Thank god you are not the GM
Well you’re one of those guys that does everything by numbers. I’m talking about baseball – two entirely different subjects.
You actually compare Derek Jeter and David Wright and those kind of insane and ridiculous comparisons are what happens within the confines of numbers-based debates. It has nothing to do with winning and baseball.
And right now the absolute smartest thing to do is move on from the past and start anew and Wright is the biggest chip for that.
Wright’s actually the worst of the four main trade chips the Mets have to offer and would return the least. But no one ever accused you of knowing what you’re talking about.
Hahahahahahahaha
Yeah production has nothing to do with teams having success…absolutely nothing at all. I’m sure if Jeter was traded to the Astros this season they’d have been in the playoffs while the Yanks were the ones losing 100 games
Bayonne — Why do you find it necessary to address just your buddy? Hmm. Are you afraid an open statement will be slammed by most of the MMO community?
Bayonne, THIS^^^^
personally, i dont think so..
David Wright has established a PATTERN in 3 out the 4 past seasons of doing really great in the 1st half…then not so much in the 2nd half…
2009
2010
2012
all the same…
this year he did seem more relaxed in pressure situations…( at least in the 1st half )
“Giving $150 million dollars to David Wright could go down as the most colossal financial blunder in team history. Not only that, but if years 4-7 of the deal end up being wasted – and there’s a good chance that they will – we won’t be out from under that deal until the year 2020. Now think about that for a moment…”
Joe, I often disagree with you, but this is the wisest and best thing of your I have ever written.
Only Omar would give Wright a deal like this.
Insanity.
Where is that number even coming from though? Thin air? It certainly isn’t being floated by Wright or the Mets. Just more random assumptions.
8 Year 150 MIl which translate to roughly 18.75 Mil per year.
Wright wants to be a met for life so it’s going to take a 7 or 8 Year contract unless you want to pay him 20+ Mil per season.
What do you mean insanity? Who ever said the front office is going to give Dwright $150 million dollars?
That’s what I am trying to figure out. Where are these random numbers being guessed from?
Figure it out…He is going to make 16 MIl this year regardless…
Take what you think he is going to get per year and multiply it by 7-8 years and what number do YOU come up with?
Your not going to get Wright for under 20 M per for any terms less than 7 or 8 because he wants to retire as a Met and if not then why not go and get the money instead.
He would get 20 Mil minimum on the open market on a 5-6 year deal.
Metsie,
Read above. People actually think we’re going to be able to re-sign Wright for 5/75 or 5/80.
Yeah I know as if they really think Wright is going to take a Pay CUT to stay here! LOL
5/75 comes to 15 Mil per year!
Fantasy Baseball GMing at play here.
Easy to set the price your going to pay when there is no Agent to contend with isn’t it?
I don’t normally like trading stars especially with how attendance is declining. But like I stated above, I don’t think as a mid-market payroll team (14th in payroll), we can afford to pay Wright market value for his age 31 and up seasons. We disagree on moving Wright, but I just don’t like the contract that’s coming.
Hank I really don’t care that they trade Wright or not….He himself is not the issue,
What is the problem is that they will trade him and do nothing to replace him.
As I said somewhere else on this site today if you trade Wright thats fine provided you take the money you would have paid him and get someone a lot better to bring someone into the stands to compensate.
If they don’t they lose Wright, The Production, The Revenue and have done nothing but dig the hole deeper, so deep they will not get out of it for 10-15 years.
While Wright may not be worth the money without Wright you lose Dickey too.
UNLESS you get some other player to replace Wright’s production AND star power with the money you didn’t spend on David.
The way to fix this team is not by being selective on who you spend on. It’s by getting more people to show up and by doing that you can carry horrible contracts because revenue is no longer an issue.
And while we sign Wright there is nothing to stop us from trading him later on if and when they have a decewnt replacement (maybe Flores) to take over his production at league Minimum.
But if they don’t keep Wright they are going to fall off the financial cliff they have been straddling for the past 3 years.
And once they fall all the kings horses and men won’t be able to put this tream back together again!
It will take 10 years of basement and the top 10 picks that come with that.
Which means might as well get another summer hobby until the year 2022!
Ah, we are mostly agreed then Metsie (look above). I say move Wright for a high impact MLB ready or very close to MLB ready bat because we have one…in our entire organization. And then I advocated using the $16MM to bring in two free agent outfielders.
Hank, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t get high value players for Wright without kicking in cash. You have to either eat salary to get top prospects in return, or dump his salary for nothing in return and then have money to use on free agents.
But that doesn’t address the attendance issue Hank. Which is the biggest problem facing this franchise not the production because even WITH Wright’s production we didn’t win a thing….
You need to find a player to replace Wright who will draw the same if not more people to the stands.
If you don’t then you will fail.
revenues will plummet due to the loss of Wright (and get compunded if Dickey leaves because of it as well) and in the end they won’t even be able to afford Davis’ Arb raise!
They need to focus on attendance this year, if they don’t then all that money from Bay and Santana is offset by reduced revenue and we are a cellar dweller without the ability to spend to generate fan interest for 10 years.
And halfway through it will be Harvey and Wheeler who are the guys we will trade to get the pieces to fill all those holes we created in the name of filling holes.
Very true, the Mets were only able to get Wheeler because they ate most of Beltran’s cash. If the Mets ate Wright’s cash AND traded him then many would get their wish because the Wilpons would be out of the owner business. Paying Wright 16M and then losing the revenue of trading him?
The Mets paid ALL of Beltran’s contract. It wasn’t a salary dump, it was a trade for a top prospect. People here are running with the idea that it’s a great idea to trade Wright because he’d bring in a mountain of prospects, and they the Mets can re-invest his $16 mil in the FA market. That’s a fallacy. It’s one or the other. They can trade him for as good a haul as they can find, but it’ll cost them $16 mil to do so. OR, not AND, but OR, they can dump him for Adrian Rosario and Daniel Herrera and then reinvest $16 mil.
Saying 5/80 is just as pointless as saying 7/150. No one knows except for Wright’s camp what they will ask for. Speculating is pointless.
I get your speculation is pointless bit, but we are not Wright’s camp, nor are we Sandy and his team. Therefore, all we are all doing is speculating.
That said, we can at least call on what we’ve seen so far. Take for example Ryan Zimmerman’s extension, that is a fairly good comp for Wright. Take that Wright means just as much to his team and city, and it’s been a few years (inflation), we can speculate an educated guess…that Wright would look at Zimmerman’s deal as a benchmark. It’s what all baseball players and agents do.
Also, I don’t think it’s wild speculation to say that Wright won’t be taking a paycut by accepting 5/75 or 5/80. But hey it’s all speculation so why have an opinion.
Just because the Nats messed up with Zimmerman doesn’t make it a good deal or what Wright is asking for. Does every mediocre to above OF now have to demand Jasyon Werth Money now too?
1. Stop speculating.
2. The Nats did what they feel was right to keep their franchise 3B and what they detemrined was market value.
3. Even if the Nats messed up like you state, that shouldn’t stop Wright and his camp from using that as a comp because unlike “every mediocre outfielder asking for Werth money”, Wright can argue that he’s just as good maybe even better than Zimm.
4. I’ll stop speculating now.
Right and Nick Swisher can ASK for 7/150M as well but…
Of course it’s a blog and we all have our opinion but my point is you got camps running around pretending they have any idea what the answer to those 3 questions are and making assumptions based on those.
What if the deal is 5/90 with 2 option years? What if it is 7/140?
What if the package is crap players? What if it is 2 Wheeler type prospects?
What if the Mets have no intentions of adding more players than Wright or Dickey to the mix? What if in 2014 they plan on investing in the team again?
Again to me it’s pointless at this time so early to speculate. In the coming weeks we are much more likely to at least hear a number from either the Wright or Mets camp.
TRS of course nobody knows, but that doesn’t mean you can’t speculate and debate what those numbers should be and what is too much or too little? Heyman said he asked five baseball executives in the AL and they ranged from 7-8 years and $125 to $150 million. Rubin did something similar. We all know what the market value is and those numbers fall right in line. You don’t need the exact contract details to debate whether $100 million is too much or not enough. We’re working with parameters which is exactly what Alderson did with Reyes. In fact he never even used any fixed numbers and admitted as much because no official offer was tendered. So if you are waiting until the deal is actually done to discuss whether it was good or not it will be hard for you to provide any insight on a post where we are debating not what happened, but what could happen.
Oh you can speculate as much as you want as long as you admit that it is random speculation and no one has a clue how much he is actually asking for or how much the Mets are willing to pay or what the return would be if traded or what their future plans are.
But when you say:
“We are talking about giving a seven year deal that could fall somewhere between the range of $125-$150 million dollars. Wright will be 37 when he starts the final year of that contract.”
Who is talking that?
I am – based on market value, Adam Rubin’s research, and Jon Heyman’s responses from 5 executives. There’s enough there for me to ask the question and debate it. Over 60% of MetsBlog readers, over 3,000 say they would give Wright $125M last week. This is a valid discussion.
Well, Joe, that was your first mistake…you sampled MetsBlog readers.
Come on it’s Metsblog… LOL
Cerrone even floated 6/100. Who cares what his fans thought on his poll?
Now based on your executives and Rubin, I haven’t read enough. How about some links?
Best I can find is this random quote from the Post:
“Many in the industry expect Wright, who will turn 30 in December, to seek a contract of at least seven years and $125 ”
Who the hell is many in the industry? Couldn’t that be you or I?
Speculationwhat the hell are you talkign about?
What is 16 MIl times 7?
16 times 8?
Thats what Wright would get if he gets NO RAISE AT ALL!
Now factor in how much more you give him as a raise and do the math…
There isn’t a whole lot of Speculation just a pretty reasonable ESTIMATION on what the final package will be about for the years involved.
Rival executives suggest Wright is worth $20MM per season, according to Heyman. However, Mets ownership seems undeterred by Wright’s leverage and doesn’t have anything negative to say about him, Heyman reports ($160MM over eight years could work for both sides in Heyman’s view). Wright declined to discuss a potential extension in detail, saying only “you’d like it to take you to the end of your career.”
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/09/wright-optimistic-about-extension-talks.html
Wright earns $15MM this season and his contract includes a $16MM club option for 2013 ($1MM buyout) that will definitely be exercised. The 29-year-old is playing at an MVP level this year, which means the Mets probably can’t expect to lock him up for a deal similar to Ryan Zimmerman’s six-year, $100MM contract.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/latest-on-possible-extensions-for-wright-cano.html
Mets third baseman David Wright, a free agent after next season assuming his 2013 option is picked up, will likely seek an eight-year contract extension of $150MM, using the long-term deals of franchise players Troy Tulowitzki, Matt Kemp and Joey Votto as negotiating points.
http://msn.foxsports.com/video/MLB?vid=58972be1-11de-457c-92c4-4d6e653e97d0
here are some links, but honestly you should just use market value. Baseball salaries never decrease they rise, so look at Zimmerman deal and other comparable players/contracts. This is America, use market value to determine everything from cars, to houses, to baseball contracts..
Heyman:
“Time for the Wilpons to pony up. The figure of $160 million for eight years would be a nice start (my suggestion, not Wrights; he’s too polite to talk about loot).”
Again, my point remains that saying that the deal is a lock to be 7 for 125-150M, it’s too early to say that when we haven’t even heard one thing from the Wright camp.
If I were one of DW’s agents…I sure would make sure I pay some of these gossip girl journalists some money to pump out some rumors on what other execs ( with no names ) say my client is worth on the open market…
just sayin
Cool story bro
Lol, here to make a mockery of the site, our very own Curse of Omar. Wonder why he won’t post under his other name(s)?
There is no chance in hell that after 2008, the Mets would ever trade David Wright for Miggy…
If u thought the press was hard on Ike Davis for staying out late and going to the movies…
Adam Rubin would be on Miggy like a parole officer…
u would know how many beers miggy had…every night….
who he slept with….how old she was…and who she slept with…
the controversy would be bananas in NY
Adam Rubin would lick the fungus that grew on David’s big toe if he could
I simply see David Wright being in the same position that Mel Stoytlemeyer was 35 years ago.
Mel was a great pitcher who was stuck on horrible Yankee teams. I don’t think David wants to be in the same position. We already know that the Mets won’t be trying to build a competitive team now as they will be banking on young kids to develop over time – just as they were the past two seasons. The re-financing of the SNY loan will enable the Wilpons to meet their cut down operating expenses in 2013. Otherwise, the situation doesn’t change much.
If i am ever gonna write an article for this site, i’ll have to start with either sandy alderson, david wright and/or moneyball to be a success right away… My goodness. Mets fans love for mediocrity is insane at this point!
XIcon, we traded Beltran for half a season and no picks coming to the Giants for Wheeler. I’m not buying we have to eat anything. Besides Wright for a whole season could have an even larger market than Beltran.
Metsie, if we win, the people will come. Let’s say we trade Wright for Will Middlebrooks, or even my other dream scenario Wright and Dickey for Andrus, Olt, and an arm or two. Then we take the freed up 20MM to sign Bourn or Upton to a 4 year deal, and then Ross or Pagan to a 3 year deal.
Net losses, Wright and Dickey. Net gains; Middlebrooks or Andrus and Olt, AND Bourn/Upton and Ross/Pagan.
This is a better team than the 2012 team or the inevitable 2013 team as constructed presently.
But Hank, the Mets paid all of Beltran’s contract. How can you ignore that?
That’s a fair point. However, I think the fact that only one other 3B in the modern era has a higher career WAR than Wright, means that teams will see his value and pony up. I’m also crazy enough to pay as much as possible if it means getting the best package possible. However, it is my opinion that you don’t have to pay to get rid of Wright. I think there’s a market for him, and if you let it develop by putting him out there, you will do just fine.
The goal would be two-fold, getting the best preferably hitting prospects possible, and using the freed up money on OF bats. If I have to pay some or all of Wright’s contract to get top level talent, I’d be willing to. This would mean being creative with my free agent acquisitions, or maybe even dangling Dickey and his $5MM contract as a means to not paying a penny on Wright’s.
That’s fair. As long as you’re open to the idea that you’re not getting a top haul without kicking in money.
And Hank, I hate to rain on your parade, but the Rangers aren’t going to send cost-controlled, young studs to the Mets for the pleasure of paying $20 mil for one season of Wright and Dickey.
The Rangers are just one team, there are others. Plus trading with the Rangers is predicated on them being quickly ousted from the playoffs (step one accomplished), and them losing Hamilton to free agency (what I’m hoping for). This frees up money, and might entice organization to re-stock quickly. That and Andrus is expendable because of Profar and how cheap he is now. And if you’re getting Wright you certainly don’t need Beltre and Olt as well.
Maybe. I don’t know. They have Beltre under contract for three more years with a vesting option for a fourth. What would they do with Wright? Or Beltre? And it looks like they’re grooming Olt for first base over there, so he’s not exactly expendable. Teams aren’t lining up to help the Mets by taking on salary for one year while dumping studs that are cost-controlled for a few more years.
Yup the Rangers are a good fit for Dickey, not for Wright.
I could see Dickey for Andrus and some young arms. That’s not out of the realm. But I think Dickey will re-sign. After fighting the wave of nausea that came with the realization that I agreed with Francesa, he thinks Dickey’s a reasonable guy and 3/30 gets it done. I don’t know if it’s that I agree, or that I hope, but there it is.
Yeah, I proposed Andrus for Dickey as my step one in rebuilding the Mets a few weeks back. It also included the assumption that you could trade Wright for Justin Upton. Again, that’s just good ole assumptions nothing more than we are doing here. Where we get in to issues is if we pretend to actually KNOW what the demands or offers will actually be.
If somehow, Wright is asking for 5/125, i’d offer the same to Hamilton, trade the guy and go from there…
If Wright is asking for 5/125 then you and I both can get his bags ready.
That being said we are missing the part about if Wright comes out asking for that much then his trade value truly is as a rental which will not be as much as if he were willing to work out an extension with the acquiring team. Think how Johan basically held the Twins hostage. So if that’s the case you may very well be better off waiting until the ASB or even just letting him walk after the season.
Stealing from another link on the OF thread.
What would it take to get Trumbo and Bourjos from the Angels? Specifically Trumbo? Would they be interested in Wright?
I think Trumbo and Bourjos is a good starting point. If they offered that as is, I’d take it in a second. The savings there should yield your RF for 2013 and beyond.
Obviously I would too which means the Angels wouldn’t… Lol.
7 years guaranteed is too long for any player. If we went with 4 or 5 year deal (even 5 is pushing it) and put in some options and incentives, that should be enough to carry him to the end of career as a Met. And no where else is making a 31 year old free agent the face of the franchise, so he loses out on that marketing perk.
OK, to clarify, whether it is 100 mil OR 150 mil, 5 years or 8, giving Wright ANY kind of deal like this will be a terrible move, reminiscent of Minaya, and will kill the team for years.
Wright was last great for a whole year in 2008, he has been injured and/or so-so for four years, he turns 30 soon, and adding all of this up with the idea of a long-term deal for huge $$$ now equals insanity.
Total, complete, shortsighted insanity.
Wright is a fine player now, was a great player from 2005–2008, by all accounts is a fine human being, and I wish him nothing but the best.
But 8/150 or 7/125 or even 6/110 for David Wright beginning in 2013 or 2014 would be absolutely ludicrous.
Trade him for prospects, save financial flexibility, re-sign RA, keep Niese and Ike, and build around a possibly great rotation, and solid fielders like Ruben and Ike.
That’s the ONLY real solid “plan” this team can follow today, when one considers the organization’s dearth of talent and financial resources.
Build from strength, and right now the only strength is starting pitching, and what Ike and Tejada offer.
You’ve tried at metsblog, and now you’re trying here, stop it. There’s some of us who see trading Wright as the way to move the franchise forward. We are in the minority. I believe his value is high enough right now to yield some very solid pieces. Also, I can give two months at 3B to Lutz, or Satin, or any journeyman 3B if it means Wilmer is starting for good come July…and this is if trading Wright doesn’t yield a 3B prospect.
$16MM saved from Wright, and the $50MM coming off next year is all the financial flexibility I need. Reinvesting that money, is how to rebuild this franchise.
You got it, Hank
That is the only and only real and smart way to go forward. Time to move. The rebuilding started 2 years ago and a foundation is becoming evident in Ruben, Ike, Niese, Harvey and throw a couple more if you’d like.
Keeping Wright is more of the same, not moving forward, and like you said it’s “kranepooling” us. I don’t want to be kranepooled. Maybe Ruben or Ike or Niese or Harvey or somebody else will be the lifelong Mets the fans all crave – just not now with Wright. That emotional feeling is ill-timed right now. It will kill this organization if they waste all that money on Wright instead of reinvesting it towards the foundation that’s being assembled now. And credit should be given to the previous administration for that foundation.
I just disagree with you on what to get in return for Wright. I think the Mets should go after major league ready talent, sweeten the deal with more players even from the minors if necessary. The Mets have chips to work with so use them.
Ike, Ruben, and Niese are not chips. They are the foundation. So that leaves your biggest chip to be Wright. Or maybe Santana but i want him around to be with these young pitchers when i move Wright to try and compete in 2013.
Injuries prevented Omar Minaya from being here to reap the farm he built. If not for injuries Omar would still be here unless there was a 3rd collapse, then he could’ve been fired for that. All the other stuff just ballooned when everything else started to go wrong and the couple bad contracts people always whine about and want that to define his administration simply do not want to blame the players instead when they choked for 2 straight seasons, these people are looking to vent their anger at Omar when if we did not choke those 2 seasons the Ollie and Castillo contracts still would have not worked out but the Mets still would’ve gone into the post season 3 straight years despite the bad contracts to those 2.
Looking back in hindsight, and i wanted Omar gone too but to a lesser degree than most, I wish Omar was here now to work with this budget. My gut feeling is this organization would be in better shape if he was. Omar Minaya may have used poor judgement on a couple of contracts but that does not take away from the fact that he’s a MUCH smarter baseball man than Alderson and his numbers-loving cronies. No comparison at all.
Oh and he would not have incorporated a passive, silly organizational-wide hitting philosophy that reduces a hitter’s natural talent (what got them to the bigs) and replaces it with a silly, cowardly strategy focused on trying to get starting pitchers out of the game which hinders your sluggers natural ability to do what he does best.
Omar with a smaller budget runs circles around Paul Depo/Sandy/JP with a smaller budget…
What Omar needed in NYC was a good 7 years of rebuilding the farm…..plus an ownership that truly supported the GM, the farm he inherited was ATROCIOUS…and most of the young kids he has up were the flawed low risk variety…
then everyone bashes Omar for not having top shelf latino IFA’s…
well…the mets are ranked almost dead to last in IFA spending through Omar’s tenure…Duquette’s tenure…Steve’s tenure….etc etc…
the problem is the wilpons…
Obviously the Wilpons are most responsible for the mess but one don’t say that here and two you can’t fire the owners.
First of all you’re giving Omar way too much credit here. He started as GM of the Mets with a payroll somewhere in the 90′s, and just ballooned it to 150mil a few short years later. So with the Mets he never really had to exercise the spending constraints that Alderson has to work within.
And if you’re comparing his work in Montreal, all he did there was trade away young talented prospects and sold out the future with a “win now” mentality. You know like alot of the bloggers here wanted Sandy to do this year at the deadline.
Don’t get me wrong here, the jury is still out on Alderson and Co., but please don’t give Minaya accolades he doesn’t deserve.
ummm…we’re still bashing Omar for trading away prospects in Montreal???
a team that was supposed to be contracted and done away with???
why on earth would u keep prospects for a team in a playoff hunt that may not even exist past the season?
and yes the payroll ballooned from 2005-2009….
guess what?
attendance and REVENUE ballooned along with it…
Mets had the BEST 4 year attendance record in their ENTIRE FRANCHISE HISTORY under Omar…
The payroll in 2006 was SMALLER than it was in 2002…and their attendance was TWICE as much…
what the fork do u think they did with the EXTRA CASH they made from 05-08?
then add up the new SNY regional network money…
now add up the Citibank money… ( 20 mil )
then add up the MLB advanced media rev sharing money…( 35 mil )
then add up the new TV sharing rights deal ( 30 mil ? )
then add up MLB merchandise rev sharing….
The Wilpons are making over 100 mil BEFORE they sell ONE TICKET to u…
I could have sworn you two just agreed and now you are telling him to stop.
Hahaha!
You surely know who I am…
I was referencing Hanks comments Mr. Molester.
Gotcha sir; I am aware. But I think Hank is saying “stop” because I am making TOO much sense.
And this name is a character from the movie Boogie Nights, which you should see if you have not.
Yeah, I know but reminds me of Chester the Molester. Lol
I have to agree. Wright has and still is a fan favorite, our poster boy. But… his value is on decline and if a trade helps us in the long run while his value is substantial it should be done. We may actually have a decent starting pitching rotation next year; and maybe an extra young arm to help in the pen. Offense, please come our way. Wright doesn’t bring that much for $15M. Please don’t bury us in another $100+M contract on a declining player.
LMAO
ur obsession with Minaya is damn near scary…
in terms of extending players…
he gave 2 team friendly extensions to both Wright and Reyes…
he gave Ollie and Castillio, market rate extensions…even when he had almost no other affordable option in both cases…
…and thats about it…now if u want to look at bad big money ticket signings…well u would need to go back to 1992 to see the pattern…
essentially the logic of using marketability to justify a big-ticket signing goes back to 1992…
hell, the mets traded nails for juan samuel and desperately played him out of position because of marketability issues…( this was revealed in SI of 1993 )
The Wilpons want to keep Wright for the same reason they wanted to sign Bonilla, Saberhagen, Mo Vaughn, and the 100 other top shelf guys we brought here…
because in the wilpons eyes, winning doesnt bring fans to the seats…stars bring fans to the seats…
dont believe me?
listen to a young Fred Wilpon explain how he intends on “bringing the magic” back to Shea
http://bit.ly/R8Jnuk
he actually ADMITS….that winning a bunch of ball-games is NOT in his list of methods of increasing attendance…
Flash Forward 30 years later…
Sandy Alderson ( the latest Wilpon mouthpiece ) says that the mets will not repeat the failures of the past 4 seasons…
well sorry Sandy…but the 2 seasons before that ( 2007/2008 ) were epic colossal disasters…
But the Wilpons dont see it that way….
2005 – The Mets had stars…high attendance…meaningful games in Sept
2006 – The Mets had stars…high attendance…meaningful games in Sept
2007 – The Mets had stars…high attendance…meaningful games in Sept ( collapse )
2008 – The Mets had stars…high attendance…meaningful games in Sept ( collapse )
In 2008, Omar was signed to an extension
In 2009, The Mets had stars, lower attendance, no meaningful games in Sept
In 2010, The Mets had stars, lower attendance, no meaningful games in Sept
In 2011, The Mets had stars, lower attendance, no meaningful games in Sept
In 2012, The Mets had few stars, lower attendance, no meaningful games in Sept
In 2012, Sandy says he does not want a repeat of the past 4 seasons
Met fans dont want a repeat of the past 6 seasons…
there is a DISCONNECT between the wilpons and their fans…
u bringing up Omar as if the previous 10-15 years havent happened is a head-scratcher
Hi Just,
Another reason for the initial attendance dropping in the late season since 2009 was that the disconnect between ownership and the fans that couldn’t afford the tickets.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/attend.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/attend.shtml
and yet NY fans were still able to find the cash to go to Yankee stadium…despite the fact that it costs alot more to fill up their stadium…
also..lets not pretend that the bush years were great from 2001-2008….tons of folks in NY lost their jobs…
and even with that….the mets SHATTERED attendance records in 2006-2007-2008
they ( meaning the wilpons and their puppets – matt cerrone/sandy/dave howard/etc ) really need to stop pretending as if there is any other reason why we refuse to invest in seeing the mets….
they are going to blame the yen, the dollar, the pound, the euro before they look at the mirror…
If Alderson is exercising due dilligence (and I hope he is) he should already be engaged in serious discussions with other club execs about Wright. The media doesn’t have to know this and most of all Wright doesn’t have to know this. Perhaps I’m naive, but there should be some confidentiality between club execs where these secret talks still exist. This is a huge organizational decision that is going to impact the team for years to come. Either way it goes, Alderson should have some kind of idea what Wright will net in a trade (if not already have a deal in principle) prior to making a contract offer. May sound cruel but this is a business folks and if responsible GM’s are not conducting their business like such, then shame on them.
I am sure the agent will know because the acquiring team may want an extension window but overall I agree.
Jimmy is this you??
LOL
dont forget Byrdek…who he could’ve moved at the deadline…
dont forget Izzy…who he could’ve moved at last year’s deadline…
FunFact: I recently saw one of the guys in the K-Rod trade mowing the lawn on my uncle’s block in Long Island…
David Wright is the face of the franchise. I think some people are quick to forget what David has had to deal with over the past four to five years.
Joe writes that “David Wright peaked in 2007 (.963 OPS), plateaued in 2008 (.924) and has declined ever since. Is that a fair statement to make?”
Not really.
David had better hitters batting before and after him during those years.
History shows us that when Wright tries to do too much he is not the same hitter.
Who did David have wrapped around him this past year? Ike hitting a buck nothing for half the season and the likes of Duda and Bay.
Wright got nothing to hit in the second half of the season.
We should not only endorse signing Wright to a long term (agreed it shouldn’t be longer than five years) and then work on getting some decent contact hitters to compliment him.
If the Mets sign Wright and still have crap hitting around him then why bother?
I agree completely with you last line. If they are not going to be ready to compete by 2014 then Wright is just fan fodder
Your overthinking it a bit. He is a very solid ballplayer, he is a MET and he apparently is a solid citizen. Fans need to have their heroes or at least players that they can honestly root for. He is one of them. The lack of the teams success only occasionally has fallen on his shoulders..mostly it falls on the ownership (who can be clueless)and the underachievers who sucked up the payroll and did not produce.
Anyone who is worried about paying him too much should ask themselves if they would prefer to root for Wilpon’s wealth which they seem to be more interested in than what happens on the field!
ANyone who claims to care about how much we are spending is either a Wilpon that is named in the Will or is more interested in playing GM than rooting for the team and wanting a team worth seeing!
I don’t care how much money Wilpon has or how much of his money we spend!
I don’t care if the team makes a penny a billion or breaks even.
All I care about is they put the best team out there possible, One that can make the playoffs in a two wildcard format so people will be willing to go see them ALL SEASON which will solve whatever problems they have with spending and finances.
If your concerned about how much they spend of spending TOO much your not rooting for the mets to succeed your rooting fo the WIlpons!
Thats the way I look at all this spending talk!
We have cut our Payroll by about a third and we have yet to re-invest a penny of it yet!
And if I were the GM I would give Jeffy and Fred a package of hot dogs to eat for the next three years and tell them the STEAK money is going towards making a team people want to see that will solve thier problems and allow them to go back to red meat in two or three years.
And if they said no I would go to the press and say Sorry folks can’t win here until the owners realize without a good team the steak dinners stop altogether!
i’m on
am i on ?