17
2012
Is Peter Bourjos Worth Trading For?
An article by 
According to Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com, Angels center fielder Peter Bourjos could end up being traded this winter if the Angels re-sign free-agent OF Torri Hunter.
With the obvious Mets need for a centerfielder, just about any rumor of an available centerfielder automatically has the Mets attached to them, but that doesn’t make it so.
When you ask yourself what would the Angels want for Bourjos, the answer would be very similar to what the Mets would want for Ike Davis. Neither team is simply going to give those 25-year old players away. You could argue that Bourjos will warrant more simply because he play a higher skill position plus is still a year removed from arbitration and will earn the league minimum. Ike Davis is expected to earn $2.5 million in his first year of arbitration this season.
My question is how much more valuable is Bourjos than Angel Pagan who will be a free agent and won’t cost the team any prospects to acquire?
Peter Bourjos, CF
Angel Pagan, CF
With a career OBP of .301 and 208 strikeouts in 851 at-bats, Bourgos doesn’t strike me as the type of player that fits the mold of an Alderson-type player. He has some speed, but his stolen base rate, which is much worse than Pagan’s, suggests a very undisciplined player on the base-paths. Nobody knows how willing the Angels are with regard to trading Bourgos, but they regard him very highly and they won’t simply give him away. When the Angels traded for Zack Greinke, Bourjos was a deal-breaker and the team was unwilling to trade him. A Baseball America Top 100 prospect, and an Angels Top 5 prospect for three years, he was always billed as a defensive star with a .300 bat and speed to spare. While he’s lived up to his defensive billing, the same can’t be said for his speed and offensive game.
I don’t have to rehash everything about Angel Pagan, but even in Pagan’s 2011 season, the one that got him ousted, he was better than what Bourjos produced this year as he suffered from a hip injury that is still unresolved.
Bourjos is at best, an unknown quantity, but one that the Angels will require much for. Pagan will not cost you K-New and most likely Josh Edgin or Bobby Parnell too. Bourjos will. Pagan costs you money, and in three of his last four seasons he ranked among the top ten offensively among centerfielders.
Bourjos at this point looks like another dead out in a Mets lineup that is already full of dead outs. His slight defensive upgrade over Torres doesn’t seem worth the price to me.
I’m not saying lets go after Pagan, I’m saying lets not go after someone worse than Pagan. The whole point in getting rid of Pagan was to upgrade at centerfield. Bourjos’ numbers are more in line with a typical Andres Torres season and I don’t see the logic in giving up prospects or a key bullpen piece to acquire someone like that. And that’s what the Angels are reportedly looking for in return.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
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I know these are desperate times but I’m not convinced it is worth trading for him when Kirk could potentially provide similar stat lines…if we do trade for someone it better be more significant than Bourjos
Did you see his OBP?? These saberogooners in the FO wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole!! Plus, his PPA are just terrible.. and his best asset is speed, we all know that’s just footnote… (Roll Eyes)
Teams always want a ton for their top prospects, and this is a prospect who was hailed more for his defense than offense and the Mets need players who can create runs. Bourjos would be a poor target for the Mets, but when you say he’s not an Alderson-type player I disagree. I’m afraid this is exactly the type of player he’ll be looking at. Worse yet is that if he were to acquire him he’d be billed as the Mets leadoff hitter. It scares me to say it, but I could see all of this playing out.
I dont believe Bobby Parnell is going anywhere, but I could see Kirk as a minor trade piece and Edgin too. Most likely the Mets will look to trade Murphy to get a centerfielder and then we’ll have Spin there until Flores is ready.
I would actually be shocked to see Edgin traded. Probably one of the least likely guys to go considering all the factors.
Bourjos has upside, Pagan does not. But if the Angels are looking for a big package, I’d pass.
I’d rather focus on power and a track record. Bourjos has neither.
A few things: #1 I’m not interested in the Mets signing a 31 year old CF who just happened to have a good year away from Citi Field. I and we should have seen enough. You want to say he’s better than Torres? Absolutely not argument from me. But to say he’s worth going to sign right now and keep long term is not in this teams best interest. He wasn’t good in the field – he’s an average hitter in a GOOD season.
To sign him what do you think it will take? 3 years? Minimum? No thanks. I’d expect his 2011 season to be more of a sign of things to come as he gets older than this year to be honest.
As for Bourjos – two things we forget here. If we put any value on Pagan’s 2011 and 2010 season, then ignoring Bourjos’ 2011 season is unfair. Would you take 2011 Bourjos over 2013-2015 Pagan? I would.
Now, I’m not saying I want Bourjos. I’d want to find out more about what happened in 2012. But there is or was upside there. He’s an excellent fielding CF, and only 25 years old.
So I think it depends on what they’d want to be honest. But if you’re telling me it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg for Bourjos, I’d take him over Pagan any day.
If you’re telling me it doesnt, then I probably look elsewhere unless what they want is realistic.
I recently read on an angels site that they are hoping their OF is Trout-Bourjos-Trumbo with Hunter in a reserve/DH capacity if he returns.
Neither the post or any comments before yours suggested signing Pagan. You started a storm for nothing. The poster himself said “I’m not saying lets go after Pagan, I’m saying lets not go after someone worse than Pagan.” Your rant was unnecessary and only served to stoke some fires.
P.Singh – I was responding to
“My question is how much more valuable is Bourjos than Angel Pagan who will be a free agent and won’t cost the team any prospects to acquire?”
Which I read as we’d be better off signing Pagan than trading for Bourjos. Which is why I responded the way I did.
Bourjos won’t be a superstar but if he is available and comes cheap why not. As long a he can do what he did in 2011 he is an upgrade over Torres. He might improve his numbers after one plus seasons in majors. I don’t understand how one can look at a player with one season and say that is ALL he can do. Joe Charbanou (Indians) had a great rookie season and what happened after that.
Personally, I have really soured on Bourjos. And we can assume the Angels will want a lot simply because of the general demand for strong defensive centerfielders. I’d prefer the Mets explored a trade for a guy like Dexter Fowler, who can bring a little bit of power to the position as well. That and I believe the Mets and Rockies match up better than the Mets and Angels do. In the end, I think the Halos will deal Bourjos, but it wont be to the Amazins.
Wait a second…sorry, but I can’t see giving up more for Bourjos then what they could get for Davis. Ike has contributed in every season he’s played. This other guy had one good year.
Wait a second…sorry, but did someone just say Angel Pagan? Let him flourish in San Fran cause he ain’t ever going to in NY. He brought the clubhouse down with his depression after games, they made the right call in moving him. They just didn’t get back anything worth while as it turns out.
Next!
Agreed. Everybody seems to forget that after the Beltran trade there were reports of Pagan’s attitude declining in the clubhouse.
Rich Coutinho said “There were rumblings in the Mets’ clubhouse that Pagan’s attitude changed dramatically in the second half of the year after the exodus of his mentor, Carlos Beltran.”
I believe part of why they asked for Torres is because of his reputation of being a great clubhouse guy and knowing they’d have a young team with no real CF.
I’m not sure why people seem to be in love with Angel Pagan now. He had a good year in 2012 and even that good year isn’t that impressive for me to want to commit to him for a few years.
Do you have a problem with any Latino players that Minaya brought in? You generally go out of your way to denigrate them and ask others here to follow your lead.
Roxio, the guy hates beltran, reyes, now he hates pagan and went on a rant about not wanting upton in here…. you do the math…
Man this place is going down hill if this is all we are going to talk about everyday.
I apologize if this bothers you, but he is representative of MMO, and it’s fair question based on several comments he has made in the last two months alone. I’m sure he’s old enough to reply to my concern himself. He spends an inordinate amount of time doing searches for quotes to put some players in a bad light and it seems like a crusade against the same former Mets all the time. I love this site, it’s the number one site for the Mets in my opinion, but I refuse to further support it if they would allow a rogue member to tarnish it’s good name. I am appalled by some of the comments he’s made and offended as well, and I would like to know why he persists in writing some of the things he does.
But again like others I think you are finding things because you are tying to look for them.
So he is bias against Pagan because he is Latino yet says
“I believe part of why they asked for Torres is because of his reputation of being a great clubhouse guy and knowing they’d have a young team with no real CF.”
That makes no sense.
Rich Coutinho said “There were rumblings in the Mets’ clubhouse that Pagan’s attitude changed dramatically in the second half of the year after the exodus of his mentor, Carlos Beltran.”
What was the purpose of this? Is this a fact? There were recently similar things said about Ike Davis. They were rejected. And he has the nerve to seek out this quote and post it as fact just to tarnish Pagan who has been hailed as a leader in San Francisco? I see a double standard and I find that offensive. I asked him to respond and I don’t need you to patronize me or be judgmental because I have a deep and abiding concern as person of Latino descent. It may be something you might not understand.
Have mercy what is going on here? LOL.
Roxio, i am proud of you, you are entitle to have an opinion and ask a question to a guy that somehow landed an admin position in this site regarding his hatred towards certain players without another guy butting in..
TRS, as i told you before, sometimes you need to mind your business. joe D is the owner of this site and he doesn’t butt in as much as you do.. Damn, you’re like a mind control freak.. Go play with SRT and your buddy STICK at who can say THIS^^^ the most and stay out of this.. Roxio has a right to know about the conduct of a guy who’s a writer here but has certain hatred towards reyes, beltran and pagan just to name a few…
If that’s what you want this site turned in to then be my guest. If you want it turned into some witch hunt to falsely hunt down those who are against certain groups and have every post infiltrated with “you feel this way because of what nationality you are” crap then so be it.
No, it’s not what i want. Me and you both don’t approve of the comments, yet, the man just has a simple question to a guy that imho has no integrity and is probably the biggest phony in here, yet you decided to once again butt in just because, he didn’t use any profanity nor use any derogatory words, all he did was asked a guy a simple question.. why not give that guy the opportunity to answer it and make another thread about yourself by butting in? He didn’t ask you the question, he’s been reading well enough here to figure him out and decided to confront him, yet you came in and that gave the snake a chance to escape the conversation.. My problem with you is you wanna reply to EVERYONE who make a comment here, whether is a question or a statement you wanna be involved, for the love of god take some time off and let other people at least say something without you having a problem with it if it doesn’t fit your agenda just like in this case!!
Alex, it’s because the race accusations have absolutely no place on here and will bring the entire site down. You and I both know it.
Roxio October 17, 2012 at 12:36 pm .
Do you have a problem with any Latino players that Minaya brought in? You generally go out of your way to denigrate them and ask others here to follow your lead.”
Explain to me where he was out of line? He asked a question with merit? That’s it… Nothing more nothing less. he didn’t go on a rant about that player versus this player etc. he asked a normal question to a guy that’s been a little skeptical towards certain former met players that’s it…
Maybe he doesn’t want pagan because because it would prove he once again was wrong about SA and the players he acquire or because bayonne and maniac like the guy, but you cannot take away the fact that this dude has been doing this for basically the whole year, from his bashin of reyes for no reason, to the all of the sudden hatred towards beltran to his article about not wanting upton and now this about pagan? You can’t help but wonder.. and all roxio did there was wonder and man’ed up and ask him the question…
TRS- the racial accusations will go away when the BS spreading of rumors that mainly go along racial lines go away…
“Just_Da_Damaja October 17, 2012 at 1:40 pm
TRS- the racial accusations will go away when the BS spreading of rumors that mainly go along racial lines go away…”
Just Da I hope it’s before then because you aren’t going to cure world issues on a baseball forum.
Stop the witch hunt and looking for double standards on a Mets site full of Mets fans.
Cure world issues? no…
put people in check when they spit out ridiculous impossible to prove rumors…
absolutely
OK lets assume that you feel that those rumors are false and the other believes they are true. Why then do we have to bring up race as a whole instead of looking at each individual issue separately?
Roxio – I’m not going to get into some fight with you, I’m going to defend myself one more time and then whatever you want to say or think about it is your business.
I value you as a reader, but nothing I’ve ever said about a player has had any of those views you explain attached to it. None.
You want to read it like that, that’s your problem. I can’t help the fact that Angel Pagan is Puerto Rican. It has nothing to do with the fact I do not like him as a baseball player. If you want to make it about his nationality, then you’re the one bringing race to the table – not me.
I can’t help the fact that Pagan appeared to be a lazy player who had a sour mood and then it was reported he did. Just as you apparently cannot help but look at HALF my quote and only take the part anti-Pagan and ignore that in the some breath I speak highly of Andres Torres’ reputation.
In the last month alone I’ve written a piece on Omar Vizquel being a HOF and Miguel Cabrera being under-appreciated for his amazing accomplishment. Where were your comments then?
I’ve written pro-Castillo, pro-Omar, pro-Reyes, pro-Ollie P, pro-Bernie Williams in the HOF, pro-Beato. Where were your comments then? I was pro-Omar when practically NOBODY was. How many people were coming out in favor of Oliver Perez? Or in support of Luis Castillo when he was being boo’d?
There isn’t a writer on this site that has gone to greater lengths to ENSURE there is NO content denigrating latino players than me. None. I almost was removed TWICE because I went to extremes to fight back against the very thing you are claiming of me simply because I didn’t like Pagan.
That’s me. That is what I’ve done. I’m sorry but I take offense to anybody who comes here and tries to tell me that the reason I don’t like Angel Pagan is NOT his attitude, lack of defense, lack of mental game, and average at best hitting ability but is his skin color.
You don’t know me. You don’t know where my family comes from. You have no idea that part of my extended family is Puerto Rican. None.
So don’t you dare come here and try to tell me that finding a quote about Angel Pagan being a player with a poor attitude is me trying to attack his skin color. It’s me
This is where the witch-hunt part comes in Jessep. You can’t convince someone you aren’t the “r” word. It’s impossible. Just as how would you convince someone you aren’t a witch or during the Spanish Inquisition that you believe in God. It’s a losing battle.
“I can’t help the fact that Pagan appeared to be a lazy player who had a sour mood and then it was reported he did. ”
WHAT ????
WTF was Pagan supposed to do ? Ozzie Smith cartwheels in front of the camera while he was wearing depends taking a dump on himself???
Pagan didnt smile enough in front of the camera….but if he did, he would be a clown who didnt take the game serious enough…
I love when folks say ______ is not a hard worker…as if u are following this person 24×7 around the clubhouse
these things are IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE…yet repeated by lazy folks who dont like Player X
How does Pagan go from tireless hard worker to lazy welfare case…back to tireless hard worker in less than 12 months…
lmao met fans
Thank you for your reply. I needed to know because whether by mere coincidence or by design, your recent comments lately strike me as a person who is going out of his way to not only comment on posts here, but also to do it in a very targeted way.
I don’t want to start a fight either, that was not my intent. Last week an email to this site about something else you said went unanswered, so I asked the question to you here because I needed to know. I take great pride in my heritage and many in my family have suffered through many injustices since we immigrated to the U.S. So when I sense a bad situation I respond to it.
There are worse players on this team than Angel Pagan and Carlos Beltran. Jason Bay comes to mind, maybe you can treat the rest of us here on your thoughts on him and how you wish he was half as talented as Beltran or Pagan. Maybe you can comment about Josh Thole, Lucas Duda or Justin Turner. But for some odd reason it’s always the same players. Always. That gave me pause and a right to ask.
I’m satisfied with your response. But remember it’s now what you think you are that people see, it’s what you project and what they perceive. That’s advice for all of us.
lazy in the field. I have no doubt he works hard but he was lazy in the field at times – would you disagree?
And lets not act like players do not turn it around. Melky Cabrera prior to his steroid issue was being praised for the way he seemingly didn’t care about the game and had a poor attitude in Atlanta and turned it around in KC and then SF.
When things are going good, I’d assume everybody is playing hard and being a good teammate – when things are going bad is the true test. I felt Angel Pagan the baseball player was bought into poor performance rather than stepping up to be any kind of leader as you suggest he is for the Giants. That is why I believe they wanted Torres back because Torres’ reputation is that of a great leader and clubhouse guy.
Can we get BJ Upton?
Nope…bad attitude..
how about his brother Justin?
Nope ..bad attitude…
Hey how about Angel Pagan?
Nope…bad attitude…
Hey about Delmon Young?
Nope…Bad attitude…
Hey lets play Jordany Valdespin?
Nope….bad attitude…
Apparently, most of the clubhouse cancers and bad attitudes are all guys who spent too much time in the tanning salon and not enough in the batting cage
Ok…so he worked hard in the batting cage….ran out doubles….got stolen bases…stretched out singles…etc…
but went to the field….and somehow…his work ethic changed…
I guess his unassisted triple play wasnt enough to convince u…
or maybe the fact that he couldnt cover both CF and RF while Big Foot Duda couldnt cover the RF-CF gap…
did Pagan make BONE-HEADED MISTAKES ???
Absolutely…
I call him a hard-working super talented air-head who occasionally made mistakes but MORE than made up for them with his production…
David Wright on the other hand…can make mistakes ALL day long…he will never be accused of being lazy…
neither will Daniel Murphy…
Ike Davis appearently was adopted and his real parents are Sandy Alomar
JDD….the media has a hand in perpetrating these type of rumors as well.
Have you seen the number of articles this week on Cano as he headed to an 0 for 30 slump in the playoffs? Many are implying he’s a great talent that’s lazy, doesn’t care enough about winning, doesn’t have a ‘team’ attitude. Jeeze…one pic that went along with an article this morning showed him lounging in the dugout with his feet up and the Yankees were headed for their 3 straight loss in the ALCS.
I don’t know how many times TBS zeroed in on Cano in the dugout last night to show he was laughing, smiling, eating whatever.
And the NY Post yesterday with that story on ARod flirting with two blonds in the stand during the game that Jeter broke his ankle in.
Fans are going to pick up on what they want to pick up on – believe what they want to believe.
The media just stirs the pot on that one.
Good god this is going to keep happening isn’t it?
SRT – absolutely…
this crap has been going on since the 50′s….
Saw the off-broadway play on Clemente and there were articles of Clemente, Mays and Aaron that look exactly like the articles written about Reyes, Upton and Beltran
Until we have diversity in sports journalism we will continue to see the same old same old…with fans repeating sh*t they cant even prove
Roxio – I can’t help it if you do not read everything I ever write. I think assuming somebody you don’t know has views of others’ nationality is unfair unless they come out and say it. And the people who have said far more offensive things that I – have felt the wrath of me many times over. I can assure you of that.
If you read everything I’ve ever written or typed in a comment you’d know that in June ’11 I wanted Bay sent to Buffalo, that I want him released – with regards to Thole, I’ve said I want him non-tendered. With regards to Turner, just the other day I wrote a piece saying we should trade him in a deal to get Dexter Fowler and that he has no real value.
I’m the one who put my neck on the line in the early months saying Ike needs to be sent down.
If you want to start a discussion about those players, that is what you’ll see me say. I can’t fix the fact the biggest hot topics for this team are Reyes, Beltran, Omar, Pagan. I can only respond to their situations.
Reyes was my favorite Met though I felt he wasn’t worth a 6-7 year deal and then he crushed me in Game 162
Beltran I went on record saying has had a very good career. I have absolutely no problems with his performance. None. Just because I think he falls shy of being a HOF doesn’t mean I think negatively toward him. I think the trade had to be made, and I’m glad it did. Not because of Beltran the person, but because of the situation.
I think Omar was a great GM who had a vision of what he wanted to do with the Mets and got drunk with success after 2006. He abandoned his plan, and looked for that “1 player away” everytime no matter the circumstances. He got an insanely bad deal by fans and media especially with the Rubin thing. Heck, that Rubin situation is what brought me to write for MMO!
I thought he needed to go when he did, but I defended him to the end until the fight was over and the Mets needed a change.
If you’d see everything I write – you’d see that.
I think it is in ALL of our best interests to assume that everybody here is commenting about Mets baseball. Not about personal beliefs about nationalities. If you go into a conversation assuming there is some hidden intent in a comment, then there will never be a true baseball discussion here.
TRS, i believe he asked a question to jesseP.. Are you jesseP? Can you at least let the man answer the question w/o you butting in?? GD!!!!!! seriously, the need for attention is killing you man… Let the guy ask a question and the person he asked the question to to answer… Man.. for once mind your business!!!
Says the guy that adds his editorial after the question. You can’t make this crap up!
Here we go… TX, all i am telling is this, stay away from jesseP and most of all fonzie… Those 2 have a history of __ ____ ____________ ___________
and by the way…KURT JIMINEZ from SNY a few months ago was complaining about Met fans making fun of his latino heritage because of the Los Mets jersey night…
…wake me up when Latino fans are doing the same sh*t when the mets honor the Irish for St. Patrick’s day….
…wake me up when latino fans are calling WFAN and complaining that the team is too white…
…wake me up when latino reports like Adam Rubin are badgering Sandy Alderson for interviewing white managerial candidates and insinuating that he is using race rather than credentials..
guess Jeff Pearlman wrote this article for no reason huh
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/071210
when that happens…maybe…maybe u’ll know what it feels like …til then…u would be best served to have an open ear than an open mouth
How about we just let you sleep?
Upton is latino? I didn’t realize.
TX, I take it you didn’t do your homework…
I don’t care for homework. Why don’t you just come out and say what you are meaning. I’m sure all would love to hear.
I wish i could say, but i get ban if i say it…
“thumbs down. he’s a 4th OF at best imo, as others i don’t care about the money situation, is just the fact he’s soo inconsitant is not even funny, he was supposed to be our CF for a few years, i thought he was past his issues with the baserunning blunders he was making, but he just got worst, to the point he’s consider a dumb baseball player if there is such a thing. imo he should’ve been traded this past offseason for anything of value since his value was up, either way, some ppl here are talking about ankiel, well, he SUCKS worst than pagan, and all he has is a strong power and occasional power, but, didn’t we already had a guy like that in RF a few years back in francour? how did that work out? anyways, THUMBS DOWN FOR PAGAN. what’s next the GM?? i have my thumbs midway down already…” – Alex68
Next time you wish to call me a rac ist for being down on a player, you may want to remember that just last year you called Angel Pagan “a dumb baseball player”.
Hi Roxio – Is this question for me? I’m not certain what heritage and nationality has to do with a players value. Care to elaborate?
Be careful though, I was the guy writing Pro-Omar posts on this website when it wasn’t the cool thing to do. I’m also the guy who was PRO Ollie P over Derek Lowe, and who was pro Luis Castillo in 2009
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/07/there-is-another-side-to-this.html
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/09/let-jose-be-jose.html
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/quit-focusing-on-2b.html
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2010/04/time-to-give-luis-castillo-a-break.html
I’m the guy who wrote a post on this website totally ripping apart another author for blatant racism toward latino players (which got deleted). I’m also the guy that in October 2010 wrote every single MMO writer requesting this author be removed for similar actions. Joe D hated it, as he should have.
I can go on and on. If you think I don’t like Pagan because of the reasons I tell you I don’t like Pagan – that’s your business… but don’t come here and throw out claims that I am trying to denigrate latino only players because the FACTS are not on your side.
sorry but no matter what nationality u are….simply repeating impossible to prove gossip that flies in the face of common sense and historical data will get u lumped into the same crowd of folks who claimed Omar was biased in selecting players…
“Can we get BJ Upton? Nope…bad attitude..” – Show me where I said that please.
how about his brother Justin? Nope ..bad attitude…
“He’s a product of his ballpark, and he’d hit the opposite end of the homepark spectrum here. He plays in a 0 pressure town and an offensive friendly park and he got mad when he was boo’d in Arizona and he thrives in Arizona and struggles everywhere else.”
“I’m FOR Upton if the price was right. But if you’re telling me either harvey, wheeler or tejada have to go then I’m passing,”
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/07/mmo-crossfire-the-case-for-and-against-trading-for-justin-upton.html
“Hey about Delmon Young?” – When did this come up?
Not that it matters but I don’t think I need to tell you a guy who gets arrested in NYC and possibly charged with a hate crime is a bad guy. Or a guy who threw a bat at an umpire.
“Hey lets play Jordany Valdespin?” – The guy has been given a code red treatment for his attitude by his own teammates. That’s not my fault. But I have no problems with him other than I think he’s a better pinch hitter than everyday player.
“Can we get BJ Upton? Nope…bad attitude..” – Show me where I said that please.
This wasnt about YOU….
how about his brother Justin? Nope ..bad attitude…
“He’s a product of his ballpark, and he’d hit the opposite end of the homepark spectrum here. He plays in a 0 pressure town and an offensive friendly park and he got mad when he was boo’d in Arizona and he thrives in Arizona and struggles everywhere else.”
“I’m FOR Upton if the price was right. But if you’re telling me either harvey, wheeler or tejada have to go then I’m passing,”
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/07/mmo-crossfire-the-case-for-and-against-trading-for-justin-upton.html
I’ve seen posts where met fans were talking about him having a bad attitude….
“Hey about Delmon Young?” – When did this come up?
Not that it matters but I don’t think I need to tell you a guy who gets arrested in NYC and possibly charged with a hate crime is a bad guy. Or a guy who threw a bat at an umpire.
wait…so if a guy gets into a fight with Delmon Young…and the guy happens to be gay…and Delmon happens to call him a maggot….he is the next Ambrioux Burgos?
ok…Detroit seems to be doing A-OK with a drunk MVP and the bad guy !
“Hey lets play Jordany Valdespin?” – The guy has been given a code red treatment for his attitude by his own teammates. That’s not my fault. But I have no problems with him other than I think he’s a better pinch hitter than everyday player.
A Code Red? Is this a few good men? Is he Private Santiago….are you Jessep ??? wait…You are Jessep….
please show me where his teammates have given him a code red for his behavior…better yet…show me who gave the order…
Did you give the order…
I WANT THE TRUTH !!
And AGAIN…I will repeat this in case u didnt get it the 1st time
simply repeating impossible to prove gossip that flies in the face of common sense and historical data will get u lumped into the same crowd of folks who claimed Omar was biased in selecting players…
The sad part is you even bothering trying to defend yourself against such criticisms. I probably would not even have dignified the comment with a response. I understand there is little as far as Mets baseball to discuss but it seems that in lieu of this you are the next best thing to discuss of late.
In some ways you should be proud at how popular you must be to be on so many people’s talking lists on a daily basis. Seems some just can’t get enough of you.
I guess one can just “Blame The Wilpons” for all this since it seems to be the popular phrase of late.
Looking forward to a time where there is more relevant Mets news to discuss than the Mets releasing a strength coach.
Dude you should really stop bringing all that up because all your proving to anyone is your consistently wrong!
Roxio – amongst the clutter – i hope we’re cool now? Unfortunately your post started something it didn’t need to. I hope I responded to your views appropriately and you have at least a better understanding of where I’m coming from and who I am.
Also – I can’t speak to you emailing the site about me. I don’t get those but I can assure you if I had, you would have gotten an email directly from me if Joe passed it to me.
That makes absolutely no sense…
Pagan did fine when Beltran was out of the lineup in 2009 from June-Sept….and 2010 from April to July….
Not sure how Pagan’s attitude in the clubhouse is uplifted when Beltran is in Florida rehabbing his knee….
maybe Pagan just played better knowing that Beltran was a met…
or maybe that whole theory is bullsh*t
u decide
I’m wondering if Pagan winds up back in NY next season…in pinstripes.
The Yankees are apparently going to be looking for an OF or two. Not sure they’ll be bringing either one of Swisher or Ichiro back. Ichiro is really only a part time player at this point as well.
I said the same thing…
Yanks are slowly leaning their payroll commitments…
I dont think they are going to resign Curtis Granderson after 2013…Going with Pagan would be a great low risk high reward signing…Pagan at most is going to command 3 years at 10 mil…
Hey…maybe after next year, they can sign Beltran to play RF…that way Pagan can have his spiritual advisor / mentor / batting coach / real father next to him
according to met fans…Pagan played like crap cuz Beltran got traded…
and according to met fans…Pagan secretly thinks Beltran is still a SF Giant…there is a cardboard cut out of Beltran in front of his old locker they refuse to reassign
but those are just rumors
Well I know one thing, Pagan won’t be playing in the Mets OF next season.
not unless they can convince him Beltran got traded here…
LOL…
I meant that I don’t think we’re giving out any multi year contracts this off season and Pagan certainly will be looking for one.
If the wilpons could pay players by the day they would
You only say that because you are an anti-Semite,
See how easy that was? Now, we don’t have to worry about real discussion.
actually…u are the one making a connection between cheap and jewish…
george steinbrenner is jewish…i dont think anyone ever accused the Boss of being frugal !
You’re accusing the owners of what was recently the second highest payroll in baseball of being cheap.
And no, Steinbrenner wasn’t Jewish.
But Hitler’s great grand nephew was, right? Conspiracies!!!!
trading billy wagner to save 1 million bucks instead of just letting the season play out and offering arbitration is BEING CHEAP
the wilpons for years have been a penny wise and a pound foolish
Fred Wilpon didnt become Fred Coupon because he spent more…he got that nickname b/c he would do outrageously stupid moves that set the club back in the long run to save money in the short run…
again…please alert me when hispanics are on the airwaves crying about the team being too white…
or on metsblog crying that the St Patricks Day uniform is somehow proof that the Mets are becoming too irish…
Hitler’s great grandnephew was frugal?
ok…
maybe Fred Wilpon is Hitler’s great grandnephew
“trading billy wagner to save 1 million bucks instead of just letting the season play out and offering arbitration is BEING CHEAP”
No, it is dumb and short sighted. that is different.
“Fred Wilpon didnt become Fred Coupon because he spent more”
And yet here we are.
“he got that nickname b/c”
People need to convince themselves they are clever with stupid rhymes.
“he would do outrageously stupid moves that set the club back in the long run to save money in the short run”
Like shoveling an extra $20 million at Beltran to make sure he didn’t go to the Yankees?
Or over paying Jason Bay to come here?
“again…please alert me when hispanics are on the airwaves crying about the team being too white…”
As soon as I give a damn what mouth breathers calling WFAN think, I’ll pay attention to what they are crying about.
As soon as anyone commenting on Metsblog actually gets to make decisions, I’ll read the comments there. Then maybe I’ll alert you of something. (Although, I do find the st Patrick’s day get ups pandering and hideous)
As of now, I’m too busy being a functional adult.
Wait…trying to save 1 million bucks instead of getting 2 picks isnt being cheap?
its being “short-sighted” ??
huh????
The Wilpons have ranked 3rd to last in MLB Draft spending since 2001….And 2nd to last in MLB IFA spending since 2001….
and “shoveling an extra 20 mil” ???
You forgot to mention they put 35 mil of Beltran’s salary into Bernie Madoff accounts that were supposed to get 12-18% interest rates back…his deferred salary comes with a 1.25 % interest back….
but yeah…they were just shoveling him extra money !!!!
No, not cheap.
See, when you spend lots and lots of money, that is pretty much the opposite of cheap.
“The Wilpons have ranked 3rd to last in MLB Draft spending since 2001….And 2nd to last in MLB IFA spending since 2001….”
Take the team that has spent the most on amateur acquisitions and put that up against the Mets major league payroll.
There is so much to criticize the Wilpons for, the cheap thing just ain’t there.
Its easy to spend alot of money when you are deferring salary from those contracts and investing with Bernie…
The Wilpons were reportedly against resigning Piazza and had to be convinced by Doubleday to do so…
You can spend 100K on a sports car to impress your neighbors…but if u put regular gas instead of premium…and then wonder why the car keeps breaking down…you are still being cheap…
I’d trade for him, sure, but nothing crazy. He certainly isn’t on Ike’s level.
Peter has the advantage of still being young enough to be considered as developing, with his peak years ahead of him. Most guys by the time they are 31 have pretty much had them, and at best are likely to plateau for a few years before tailing off.
This is messed up. This whole thread should be deleted for it’s hate and absurdity. Shame on some of you. This is really sad.
Gina it’s starting in every thread. This cries of double standards and motives and conspiracy theories is taking over. I guess that’s the next step in the Sandy vs Omar debate and one I don’t look forward to.
Sorry Gina – had to defend myself though.
I don’t care what articles were written in the past by the guy, or what lame ass excuse he comes up with to defend himself in regards of him bashing certain players, . IMHO the guy is as _______ as you can get… Him and another guy named fonzie here are cut from the same tree…
So… Baseball anyone?
Not anymore, it’s double standards and world issues day again here at MMO.
Well if i have to read comments from a bunch of angry white met fans for 6 years complain that the team was turning to latin
even when Omar leaves…
they still complain !
Kirk Gimenez @KirkSNY
Listen people, if you’re going to complain about @Mets using #LosMets unis, don’t to it with the networks Hispanic anchor! SMH
get on THEIR case before u get on mine
You’re choosing to buy into the small idiotic minority who think it matters what nationality the majority of their favorite baseball team has on their roster – and painting everybody with that brush – including me today. Some could easily say your response above is the most rac ist thing said on the site today if they wanted to.
There are dumb people in the world. There are still people who think the President is Kenyan. That doesn’t mean every Republican thinks that way.
Twitter allows those dumb people a gateway to communicate with people.
Assuming that people being ridiculous to Kirk Giminez represent the majority of Mets fans is a you problem.
“You’re choosing to buy into the small idiotic minority”
You mean the same small idiotic minority that you claim you were fighting against on this site all the time?
When you say you argue with them…its legit…
When I do it…they are a small idiotic minority…
I never accused you of being one of them by the way…
I just find it a bit …lets say…weird….. that your reasoning for not liking Angel Pagan was that he was lazy and moody in the clubhouse…
I mean was he lazy and moody in 2008? when he spent the off-season in Carlos Beltran’s home working out and taking batting practice?…in 2009 he hit over .310
or how about 2010…when he improved his numbers again…were u complaining about his mood swings then? …
if u said Pagan made too much money for a team that was bleeding cash…no one on earth could argue with u…
but u said u didnt like Pagan b/c he was lazy and moody….
2 things that u cant prove with a stat…are completely subjective…and have never been backed up by anything other than Rich Coutino spreading a rumor…
Matt Cerrone said Ike Davis was aloof too by the way…
I hope u dont put him on ur doodoo list
Damaja: Here’s the difference and I’ll sum it up as clearly as I can
“You mean the same small idiotic minority that you claim you were fighting against on this site all the time? When you say you argue with them…its legit…”
- Because I fought against the people who actually said it here.
“When I do it…they are a small idiotic minority…”
- Because they aren’t here! You’re taking feelings you have toward what was said to Kirk Giminez out on people here who have absolutely nothing to do with it.
You’re bringing up things said on MetsBlog that are rac ist, you’re jumping down my throat when you don’t even know me and I said NOTHING rac ist.
For all you knew I was hispanic. I remember a while back another user wrote to somebody else here calling them rac ist toward latinos – and that person replied informing them that they are latino as well!
If I or anybody comes HERE and says things that are actually rac ist, blast them – blast me. But anybody adding on their own context for their own agenda are just creating a problem for the sake of doing so.
I get offended when people accuse me of such things because I’ve literally done and said nothing that would warrant my name being dragged through the mud – you may not be doing it but some people on this site will stop at nothing to write about me and make claims about my character with no evidence other than their opinion.
This stuff has no business on a Mets site or a site about baseball. Anybody who wrote those things to Kirk G should be ashamed, but that doesn’t mean they are here or they represent fans who dislike players. I disliked Pagan because he was a boneheaded player at times, and had a terrible 2011 and I feel reports of his clubhouse attitude seemed fair. Baseball related issues.
Again…never said YOU were in that minority…
But when I hear your logic in not liking Pagan…it sounds awfully like the same flawed logic used by the SAME people you argue against…
coincidence?
maybe…but only u would ever know…
Wow, SNY let that slide? Effin shocker. The people complaining here are the same people who like to pretend everything is fine and they walk around with blinders. It’s okay for them to be insensitive and when it’s brought up instead of saying you’re right that’s uncalled for, they gather around like they’re at a clan rally and put the blame on the person who felt insulted. To them the world is a perfect place. Guess what it’s not. Not as long as there is someone who constantly bashes the same players day in and day out on this site even after several warnings from other bloggers and readers and writers. There’s a loose canon here and you can pretend there isn’t and TRS can pretend to act shocked and dismayed. When you read the comments from the top down, it’s easy to see how this mess started. That’s all I’ll say on the matter. You got eyes, use them. You got brains, use them. Baseball is about numbers right? You should be able to put one and one together. Maybe, just maybe, me and a few others here weren’t so far from the mark regarding the need for someone to cleanup his act. We’ve only been saying it for years now. But you all go ahead and kill the new guy for pointing it out. Whatever makes you feel good and lets you sleep well at night.
Lets examine this for a second..
TruthAboutMurphy -
>Wait a second…sorry, but did someone just say Angel Pagan? Let him flourish in San Fran >cause he ain’t ever going to in NY. He brought the clubhouse down with his depression after >games, they made the right call in moving him.
HOLD UP….
Did TAM have access to the clubhouse? NO? so how does he know this….Let Jessep provide the answer to that !
jessep October 17, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Agreed. Everybody seems to forget that after the Beltran trade there were reports of Pagan’s attitude declining in the clubhouse.
>Rich Coutinho said “There were rumblings in the Mets’ clubhouse that Pagan’s attitude >changed dramatically in the second half of the year after the exodus of his mentor, Carlos >Beltran.”
YES…RUMBLINGS IN THE CLUBHOUSE….The same rumblings that said Kevin Mitchell was a bad influence on Doc and Straw…
Rich Coutino said…SO IT MUST BE TRUE !!!!
And the fact that EVEN with his MENTOR ON THE TEAM…Pagan was batting .236
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=paganan01&t=b&year=2011&share=3.56#419-466-sum:batting_gamelogs
I guess Pagan is also a fortune-teller who knew his mentor would be traded eventually but decided that it was a good business move to absolutely SUCK when he is due for arbitration!
Because all guys due for arbitration decide to become lazy !!!
>I’m not sure why people seem to be in love with Angel Pagan now. He had a good year in >2012 and even that good year isn’t that impressive for me to want to commit to him for a few >years.
Well….Angel Pagan this year put up 21 mil dollars in production…in 2009, in 81 games he put up 13 mil in production…in 2010, 23 mil in production..
Angel Pagan can hit, field, throw, and run the bases better than anyone in the met organization…
But Cnl Jessep here doesnt like him…and thinks the team ordered a code red…or something like that…
Now last time I checked…Angel still has not reportedly been linked to any 10 year 120 mil contract offers…as a matter fact…most folks think he is going to command a 2-3 contract…aka…not more than a few years…
so i guess the good kernal is really saying he isnt in love with Angel Pagan, but since he wont command a contract more than a few years…he would sign him…but only if he promised to work hard and smile for the camera more…
I never choose to comment here but after reading this internet flame war I decided to leave a thought.
I have been reading this website for I don’t know maybe 3 years? I’ve never read a single derogatory thing said toward a persons religion or nationality by the author “jessep.”
I think it takes a lot of disrespect not only to those who have dealt with real bigotry but also to the readers of the site who come here to read about a game.
I have seen with my own two eyes several written pieces taking a minority few in support of latino/hispanic players by that author. If you have not – you’re choosing to ignore the facts.
The people who brought or bring a players nationality into any baseball discussion should be ashamed. It’s a lowly attempt to divert the conversation toward a silly personal grudge on the internet.
I come here to chat about Baseball. Some of you should give it a try sometime and put your petty internet rivalries to bed because they are childish and take away from this websites content.
not sure if this was directed at me…but just so that WE are clear…
I took issue with Jessep’s logic behind saying Pagan was not the right kind of player for the mets..
saying he is moody or lazy…is a statement on his character, not on his output…
everyone is entitled to their opinion…
we are here to debate, disagree, agree or something in between…
now the fact that you have been on this site for 3 years and stayed quiet as other people have made very suspect comments about Omar, Reyes and anybody who looks like they spent too much time in a tanning salon…now some folks complain about that and you wanna come in and moderate…
FOH dawg…
u wanna moderate? be fair on both sides or go back to not commenting
No. I choose not to comment because of what happened today. Because every thrrad seems to turn into a personal feud rather than a discussion about baseball.
Nothing and I do mean nothing said here deserved the character assault we witnessed. So if you took part in that then yes sir I’m talking to you.
Stick to baseball and leave the rest to some other website because you’re ruining this one dor everybody.
If you read the initial comments Jessep made….it seems like he has more of a personal issue with Angel Pagan
Jessep
>A few things: #1 I’m not interested in the Mets signing a 31 year od CF who just happened >to have a good year away from Citi Field.
whoah…
Angel Pagan was hitting great on the road as well as Away…..
>>>He wasn’t good in the field – he’s an average hitter in a GOOD season.
ok….no statistics to defend this position…and Pagan in 2009/2010/2012 has been in the top 5 among CF in most offensive categories
>To sign him what do you think it will take? 3 years? Minimum? No thanks. I’d expect his >2011 season to be more of ae s sign of things to come as he gets older than this year to be >honest.
this is based on….a hunch? spidey senses? the same logic that said pagan couldnt do well w/o his mentor?
>As for Bourjos – two things we forget here. If we put any value on Pagan’s 2011 and 2010 ?>season, then ignoring Bourjos’ 2011 season is unfair. Would you take 2011 Bourjos over >2013-2015 Pagan? I would.
So he expects pagan to replicate his 2011 season…for no reason other than…he will be 31….and then says that Bourjos’s 2011 is better than the next 3 seasons pagan has not played yet…but certainly NOT better than Pagans 2012 season still currently under way…
>Now, I’m not saying I want Bourjos. I’d want to find out more about what happened in 2012. >But there is or was upside there. He’s an excellent fielding CF, and only 25 years old
With an absolutely atrocious bat….the author even notes that pagan’s worst year is better than bourjos best year
>So I think it depends on what they’d want to be honest. But if you’re telling me it doesn’t >cost an arm and a leg for Bourjos, I’d take him over Pagan any day.
>If you’re telling me it doesnt, then I probably look elsewhere unless what they want is realistic.
Ok, i can agree here…im actually NOT an advocate for signing pagan for 2013
Reply
P. Singh October 17, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Neither the post or any comments before yours suggested signing Pagan. You started a storm for nothing. The poster himself said “I’m not saying lets go after Pagan, I’m saying lets not go after someone worse than Pagan.” Your rant was unnecessary and only served to stoke some fires.
Reply
jessep October 17, 2012 at 1:17 pm
P.Singh – I was responding to
“My question is how much more valuable is Bourjos than Angel Pagan who will be a free agent and won’t cost the team any prospects to acquire?”
>Which I read as we’d be better off signing Pagan than trading for Bourjos. Which is why >responded the way I did.
THE AUTHOR SAYS
I’m not saying lets go after Pagan, I’m saying lets not go after someone worse than Pagan. The whole point in getting rid of Pagan was to upgrade at centerfield
Reply
———————-
Jessep appears to have a personal issue with pagan….because logic and statistical history….along with current events would suggest that that Pagan is a better baseball player than Bourjos
Why Jessep has a personal issue…no one knows…but the fact that many met fans seem to have personal issues with latino players unfortnately put jessep in that same box…esp when he cant come up with logical tangible reasons to support his stance on Angel Pagan
i cant assume jessep is a racist
I can safely assume jessep has an issue with pagan
calling him lazy and moody with nothing to support this theory is extremely suspect
if u thnk rich coutino saying there are rumblings pagan is unhappy…but say nothing about RA DICKEY and David Wright publicly commenting on how they were unhappy after the Beltran trade…then its hypocrisy…
thats why people got on jessep
Hi Just Da Damaja,
But it is not just you. It was 1 user by the name of Roxio asking a question to a writer, and them the flood gates opeanybody for anybody with a personal grudge or ignorant view of how somebody views a baseball player.
You could have easily disagreed with “jessep” in terms of the Rich C report based on your views of Pagan as a baseball player you chose a path of bringing ethnicity to the table. You chose to ignore what people said and add your own context to it. You may have been more eloquent than some of your comrades like “Met Maniac, Alex68″ the intent was to divert from the topic and create an internet war, which in turn likely made people like me shake their head and close the browser. It’s the same reason people like me never comment and do not dare go into tge chat on the far right. Personal grudges on an internet baseball site, how ridiculous!
If “jessep” said something laced with bigotry, I would stand beside you seeing as it’d be an insult to my family. However, he didn’t. He said something baseball related that you and a few others chose to take as bigotry and you ran with it – which as consequence ruined this conversation.
Stick to baseball, and the only thing we should assume about other readers is that they too love the Mets and want a winner.
“The people who brought or bring a players nationality into any baseball discussion should be ashamed. It’s a lowly attempt to divert the conversation toward a silly personal grudge on the internet.”
Uh Yeah, what he said.
“The people who brought or bring a players nationality into any baseball discussion should be ashamed. It’s a lowly attempt to divert the conversation toward a silly personal grudge on the internet.”
BINGO!
LOL….
I fear it’s going to be a long winter.
Hopefully once the WS ends and we extend players, don’t extend players, non tender players, trade players, sign players, etc. etc., we’ll all have something new to complain about.
Eh it’s just getting started SRT. Imagine what will happen if the Mets sign Wright to 100+M contract after letting Reyes walk. All this stuff will be even worse than it is now.
Well, I guess that all depends on what side of the fence you’re on in the Make Wright A Met For Life debate.
lmao
yeah…and u’ll still say the argument has no merit…
You are right, I still say on a sports site it has no merit.
Right because on a sports site, it is impossible to have people make comments that were motivated by the media using race to drive a narrative.
2 hours ago somone on Metsblog said
“Milledge was one of those “raw talent” players with a questionable work ethic and focus. Elijah Dukes was in the same boat. The potential was there by they just weren’t focused enough to stay out of trouble.”
Somehow making a rap song and being arrested for trying to kill your wife = the same boat
Please tell me again how race had nothing to do with that comparison
Speaking of the media….Lennon tweets:
DPLennon: If I’m #Mets, and watching this potential rift developing between #Yankees and A-Rod, I may pick up pace of Wright negotiations.
DPLennon: #Yankees, A-Rod split up, Wright chooses to play out ’13 option, signs w/ Yanks RT
DPLennon: Just something to think about. Not saying it’s going to happen. Just didn’t envision this A-Rod mess, and that could impact other things.
**********************************************************************************************
Please Make It Stop.
“When you ask yourself what would the Angels want for Bourjos, the answer would be very similar to what the Mets would want for Ike Davis. ”
Wow, I didn’t expect the price for him to be that high. I was thinking someone like Murphy + a prospect or something like that, since Bourjos had a an awful. I thought he would be a good young talent to buy low on, but if they think his value is equal to Ike? Then no way.
Since Bourjos had an awful season*
Good post Vinny. Agreed.
I agree, I see no evidence what-so-ever that Bourjos trade value would be even in the same sentence as Ike Davis. Sorry. The guy is at this point a 5th OF, maybe he develops into more.
If Bourjos is a 5th outfielder, what does that make Bay, Duda and Nieuwenhuis?
Kirk I am not sure about. The other two, done and not an OF.
Good answer, just checking.
Good point Vinny.
And why trade for him if we already have someone similar in Den Dekker?
Well to answer your question Des I submit these as possible reasons.
1. He bats right handed.
2. He isn’t arbitration eligible till 2014.
3. His speed should allow him to cover much ground in CF.
4. He is said to be a great glove.
5. Coming off a bad year his value might make him easier to acquire.
6. His career minor league numbers and his 2011 season suggest he is a much better hitter than his .220/BA this season.
Sorry dude, I messed up and mistakenly said Des when obviously it should of been Donal.
or Reverend Al.
Meh, the only thing I can really get behind is that he is right handed. And, does that really matter if he can’t hit his weight?
Ok, for my favorite girl SRT, we take AROD and cano, they pay a large part of the contracts of the salary, they get wright and dickey plus nimmo…
hahaha
I’d take Cano for sure. But sorry….they can keep ARod.
And since they’re keeping ARod, we should keep Wright for 3rd base.
Seriously, part of ARods problem is nagging injuries this season but part is the aging process. He’s just not getting around on those fast balls like he used to. He’s lost a tic off his bat speed. Much like Bay who’s lost more than a tic.
I wouldnt take Cano…
He is lazy…moody…and if u think Ike Davis parties too much…see what goes on in Mr. Robinson’s neighborhood
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Fz1t7pDkUtM/Ts0Yx8duaZI/AAAAAAAABjs/Zu4aSCOCDSU/s1600/robinson-cano-road-beef.jpg
http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Robinson-Cano.jpg
http://api.ning.com/files/iOvqmnhbC6VcClzt5IK40B07L*Y7F-NaFVHT8xNitzFuNOQbOHmnA8YrDYd5K8eC8d2mbXtbNBjg8udxg7UqBpjL2PfbJv*1/Canoupclose.jpg
This has to be a joke.
Them girls are no joke my brother…
I would bang them all damn day if i was him..
and if u dont know…now u cano
Well, part of the deal is we get our much needed 2B, they get their 3rd baseman while we get a guy who will help your much beloved owners sale tickets and i think we also get that much needed RH presence with power we need. even though if it’s only for 130 games a year..
Problem is I don’t think there’s anyway ARod is going to be able to play 150 or so games in the field anymore. So where are we sticking him? And no….I don’t want to hear no ideas on the DH for the NL.
Sorry bud but if you think Wright isn’t selling tickets, what is left of Arod certainly isn’t selling any tickets.
Jason Bay coming off a 36 HR season couldn’t help this team sell more tickets, what would pretty much the most reviled player in New York* do?
*whether or not it is justified
Pagan is a good player, no doubt, but he is simply too costly for the 2013 Mets. And, if SF offers a qualifying contract, he will cost the #1 draft pick. Bourgos is worth pursuing but like all deals it depends on the competition from other team sin pursuit and ultimately the cost in Mets’ presonnel.
With new cba Pagan would have to be offered $13 million one year offer in order to get draft pick back and there is no way the Giants are going to offer that so unless he signs before he hits free agent market there will be no draft pick compensation.
The giants can easily offer that…esp when Pagan is going to get at least a 2-3 year deal for 9-10 mil a year…if he takes arb and gets into an accident, they can cut him in Feb and he goes home with nada…He’ll decline arb…test the market….giants get 2 picks…
we release Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez…
You know offense isn’t the only thing we should be looking at… He’s the best defensive center fielder in the game. You have to account for that when looking at his offense. Unless he hits like 200/230/280, he’s really good.
The angels know this. It would take niese to get bourjos.
It seems like everyone is either way overvauling Bourjos, or is way undervaluing him.
Bourjos has the potential to be a solid starting CFer. He’s young, athletic and has a good glove, so I disagree with the other poster who said he’s a 5th outfielder. But I also disagree that he’s worth the same as Niese or Ike, because they have proven they can produce, and they have potential. While Bourjos has potential, he hasn’t proven he can produce. That’s what seperates Niese and Ike from Bourjos.
IF Bourjous were healthy he might be a good gamble but he needs hip surgery. Look at the other players that have had hip surgery how have they done afterwards? The fact that he plays centerfield makes me hesitant to trade anyone for him but if we could trade for him and Hank Conger for say Bobby Parnell and then flip Bourjous and a prospect to the Phillies for Sebastian Valle then the Mets would have someone to compete with Thole for starting catching position this year and would set up a competition between Valle and Plawecki for the long term solution at the position. I think that Neuwenhuis or DenDekker is going to be centerfielder and whatever they give us offensively is just going to have to be considered gravy. The Mets need to start playing a strong defensive team.
Juan Centeno right now is much more advanced than Plaweki…
The kid has a 41% CS…in a much more advanced league..
Plus the kid hit over .300 2 of the past 3 years…
Excellent defense, throwing runners out and game-calling are things that translate well to the bigs…
By the way…the rumors of A-Rod heading over to Miami are already starting…
WATCH Jose Reyes become a NY Yankee…
I think Reyes one day will be a Yankee but not in a move like this.
There’s no reason for that to happen to be honest. ARod’s no longer a SS he isn’t going back there at 37 years old.
If ARod went to Miami it would be similar to the Red Sox/LA trade – Miami would be doing NYY a favor. They wouldn’t need to send Reyes.
It’d be something like ARod and a minor leaguer plus Heath Bell I’d say.
They are on the cliff of blowing up though. Once ARod is gone, they will move to another target and it will be Grandy or Cano since Swish will be gone.
Actually, the Yankees have an option on Granderson after this year. $13 million with a $2 million buy out.
I think it was complete gas. How does Rodriguez going to the Marlins help anyone?
Oh I think he’s gone. I don’t think the rumor today was true – but I think ARod’s days in NY are done. If they get swept tonight, I think it’s going to create a ripple effect of them looking at their roster and realizing how 1 dimensional it is.
They know they have to pay him anyway, so getting him out of town to avoid the distractions will be worth it to them.
The fans booing their own team in the LCS is embarrassing. Swish is gone, they will bring Grandy back and ARod will be gone.
Then Grandy has 1 more shot before they move on from him. The fans hating their own players openly at home games on nat’l tv is not something owners of the yankees will stand for.
Ya, but how is Rodriguez an upgrade for anyone? Especially if he’s going to cost them either the money or a boatload of prospects if the Yankees eat the cash?
he’d sell tickets in Miami for sure.
Not many, though. If a new stadium and high priced mercs didn’t do it, what is another high priced merc on the backslide of his career going to do?
Can’t reply up top for some reason but this goes to the issue of whether the Wilpons are cheap. I think the best description for them is penny wise and pound foolish. Yes they have spent money on big-ticket free agents, but time after time they would not go the extra mile to either retain the players they have or go after someone to help. A classic example is in August 2008 after Billy Wagner goes down. David Weathers clears waivers and would cost the Mets a AA prospect. Wilpons don’t want to take on $2 million in salary. In a year where they drew 4 million, and the bullpen is in a shambles, that’s an insane decision
Don’t re-sign Strawberry, let Olerud go to Seattle (and claim “he wanted to move West”, I have a feeling for some additional money he would stay), drag heels on Piazza, reject deal for Barry Larkin in 2000 because you don’t want to commit to three years and then not sign A-Rod and then bash A-Rod as a “24 and 1 player”; let Mike Hampton go (although that does fetch you Wright); don’t re-sign Reyes. I’m sure there are other examples I am just blocking out now. Call them cheap, call them foolish, whatever, they have been awful owners.
Vladdy and his “bad back”?
Dont forget Jeff telling the media they would have to get rid of salary before offering Delgado a contract…then giving Delgado a 24 hour take it or leave it low ball offer…because they have to rush back to Florida for the Winter Caravan…
Lets not forget not trading Milledge and Aaron H for Manny in Dec 2006 because they didnt want to absorb Manny’s remaining salary…
Instead they sign Moises Alou for 7 mil
After reading these comments I’m just appalled. Is this a Mets Site or the united nations? Is Roxio actually the Reverand Al Sharpton? This is ridiculous!!!
Having to read that Pagan was lazy and moody is even more ridiculous…
While I think I get why Pagan is an issue to you, that was not about the color of his skin but the content of his contract. They wanted him out and replaced with someone cheaper and used that stupid whispering campaign as an excuse. The fact they traded Pagan for Torres/Ramirez also undercuts the racial angle. They are now using the same tactics on Ike Davis who low and behold is arbitration eligible.
Absolutely…I agree 100%…
unless ur name is David Wright…and / or you make less than 900K a year…you are on your way out of town…
Ike Davis …step right up and get thrown under the bus for being too good…
..right when Murph gets close to making some money….watch as stories of Daniel masturbating while watching cartoons in the dugout emerge…
The Mets are the only franchise that purposely craps on their own team then expects to trade the kid for a top prospect
Why couldn’t he be gritty like Mike Baxter, Josh Thole and Brad Emaus?
he couldnt be scrappy or gritty…
he had too much god-given talent…no one who is gritty or scrappy can be naturally gifted too…it goes against the rules of scrappiness…
he was too tall…scrappy gritty guys cant be over 5’11
plus he was lazy and moody…after his surrogate father, Carlos Beltran, was traded to the Giants, Rich Coutino said he heard Angel Pagan’s ferocious beer belly farts in the clubhouse…these were the “rumblings” jessep was referring to…
this was the real reason they said he fouled up the clubhouse…
Everyone chose to ignore Dickey’s beer belly farts and he actually made them directly to the press, unlike Pagan which comes from the Latino hating NY sports journalists and beat writers, none of whom are Latino even though they represent more than a third of the population (no inequality there).
But the point is Dickey’s quotes over trading Beltran, “I feel like the front office just gutted us, that’s how I feel”. That was swept under under the rug while one writer here likes to bring up Pagan which was just an unsubstantiated rumor, but the guy who reported it was white so it must be true.
Wright on playing for a winning organization:
“I’d rather be somewhere where I feel like I can win, somewhere where I feel like I can be happy and obviously comfortable. There’s a lot of other factors other than flat-out who’s going to pay you the most.”
———————————
So basically, if a player feels he can not win, he wont be happy and comfortable…
Then David Wright will be depressed…
Then David Wright will go into a slump…
Notice that in the past 4 years…David Wright’s 2nd half slumps come right after the team starts losing a bunch of games???
In 2005…he was just fine..
In 2006…he was just fine..
In 2007…he was just fine..
In 2008…he was just fine..
In 2009…he was just fine..until Carlos Beltran hurt his knee in May and was lost after June…
In 2010, he was just fine…until the team started sucking after July…
In 2011, he had a broke back…understandable..
In 2012, he was just fine…until the team started losing in July…again…
Yeah I say there is a better chance we catch Mitt Romney having sex with Kanye West than David Wright resigning with this god-forsaken organization
LOL 126 Comments and this is my first one in it!
And who is one of the main participants in this comment barrage?
TRS who blames me whenever these 100+ commentary posts happen!
TSK TSK….
But thank you for commenting. We appreciate the participation
LOL
Sell tickets in Miami??? What the heck are you trying to imply? What do the folks in Miami have to do with a so/so ball player? Are Miamians more likely to root for him because of his last name? Maybe I misinterpreted who exactly you were talking about so please fill me in. Folks in Miami want to know why they’d buy tickets to see this guy, can you please tell them?
oh for the love of god.
Because he’s a superstar the likes the franchise has never ever seen who can break the all time HR record wearing their uniform.
In Miami…having no ability to be a DH…there is a better chance A-Rod breaks Wilt Chamberlain’s record than Barry Bond’s record..
Just sayin
Hell no. You’re better off running Valdespin in CF, which they should.
What the hell do the people in Miami have to do with Angel “Jessop calls me lazy” Pagan? That’s what I want to know…
JDD…I feel your pain.
Jessop, is that you?
Hm?