25
2012
If Wholesale Changes Are Coming, It Will Be Mostly Through Trades
An article by 72MetsFan
The other day I was reading a post by Joe D. who made it crystal clear that the Mets will not be making any significant changes via free agency. The already limited flexibility will be furthered by raises to arbitration eligibles like Daniel Murphy, Bobby Parnell and Ike Davis. If Sandy Alderson meant it when he promised wholesale changes, it’s abundantly clear that it will have to come from working the phones and making some significant changes via the trade route.
The front office have made seven trades since taking control of the Mets, so we do have a limited body of work we can review as the hot stove begins to warm up. Some teams have already begun wheeling and dealing and if the Mets GM stays true to his word, it won’t be long until we start to see some activity from the team at the bargaining table as well. Here is what they’ve done in the way of trades in the last two years:
- Mets acquire SS Chin-lung Hu from the Los Angeles Dodgers in exchange for lefthanded pitcher Mike Antonini. Hu’s career as a Met lasted all of 23 plate appearances in which he produced just one solitary hit. The trade did nothing to help the team, but luckily it didn’t cost us much.
- Mets trade RHP Eddie Kunz to the Padres for first baseman Allan Dykstra. Kunz was a first-round pick of the Mets in 2007, while Dykstra was a first-round pick for the Padres in the 2008 draft. Neither have made it to the majors and neither probably will. Dykstra is 25 and still hasn’t gone past Double-A. However he has the distinction of being one of only two players (minimum 200 PA) to have more walks than hits.
- The Mets acquire RHP Adrian Rosario and LHP Danny Ray Herrera from the Milwaukee Brewers for Francisco Rodriguez and cash. Rosario, 22, hit a brick wall in Double-A in 2012 where he posted a 5.83 ERA and a WHIP over 2.00 in 2012. Herrera, 26, was placed on waivers by the Mets in 2012 and spent the season in Buffalo where his season ended in April with elbow surgery. Francisco has never been the same since losing the closer role and is a free agent this Winter.
- Mets trade center fielder Carlos Beltran and cash to the San Francisco Giants for RHP Zack Wheeler. The Single-A prospect quickly vaulted to the top of the Mets prospect list and could make his MLB debut in 2013 if he could get over his bouts of wildness and improve his walk rate. Beltran continues to produce at an All Star pace and ended up leaving the Giants to sign a two-year deal with the Cardinals.
- Mets trade center fielder Angel Pagan for RHP Ramon Ramirez and center fielder Andres Torres. This was the first deal Sandy Alderson made that had nothing to do with dumping salary, or trading minor league fodder. But the deal backfired miserably for the Mets as both Torres and Ramirez made negative impacts on the team while Pagan helped lead the Giants into the World Series.
- Mets trade infielder Omar Quintanilla to the Baltimore Orioles for cash. Q provided a huge boost to the bench during the Orioles’ stretch run including a late-season 3-for-4 performance with a home run and three RBIs to help the Orioles grab hold of at least a wild card while they were giving the Yankees fits.
- Mets trade RHP Pedro Beato to the Boston Red Sox for catcher Kelly Shoppach. Shoppach got off to a sizzling start that lasted all of ten days before he ended his Mets season at with worse numbers .203/.276/.342 than his career norms of .226/.314/.418. Beato, 25, had some success with the Bosox and is being counted on for their bullpen in 2013.
As you can see there were quite a few misses, a couple of washes, and only one real hit assuming Wheeler delivers on his expectations.
About the Author: Drew Staley
On June 1, 2012 Johan Santana officially became my favorite current Met! I'm a Queens native who grew up in the shadows of Big Shea. I was a huge Ron Darling, Dave Magadan and John Olerud fan. Honored to be a part of such a great site for Mets fans. Ya Gotta Believe!
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I just threw up in my mouth reading that list of trades.
Well Sandy is a genius,
He uses advanced statistical analysis that’s supposed to garner good players all under the radar that 29 other teams didn’t see. I guess they did with Baxter, Emaus, & Fred Lewis. Eh, I’ll throw them a bone for Ronnie Cedeno (more for his wife than his nice performance). In the past that would just be considered a nice pickup. Now it’s due to some kind of imaginary, sophisticated, secret statistical formula that nobody else could have figured out.
Like Ted Berg said the day these guys were hired and before they had made a single solitary move – “these guys know what they’re doing”
Saber, which is the numerical religion of “evidence” is relying on “faith, hope, & heart” when it comes to the Unholy Trinity.
Not very pretty, however, I don’t see any of them having any long-term impacts either. In other words we lost nothing that would have affected us past 2013 anyway and gained someone who hopefully should.
No we just lost things that could have impacted 2011 and 2012 thats all….
What did we lose that would have positively impacted 2012?
So in two years these are the absolute BEST trades that Three General Managers combined, can come up with.
Advanced statistical analysis has in fact changed everything. It’s now better than the “abacus” days. See? It’s better.
What about trying to flip Bay for Vernon Wells? Wells isn’t amazing, but he’s amazing compared to Bay. You could flip Bay for Wells and have LAA contribute 18 million or so. That should, in theory, be like taking Wells off their hands and giving them about 4 million in relief. And that would lower your 2012 payroll by about 6 million (-19 million for bay including buy out, +22 million for Wells, then – 1/2 the LAA money contributed as it would be spread over 2 years, which works out to be 9 per. -19 +22 -9 = 6 mil). Then you’d have Wells the following year at 22 – 9 mil, which would suck, but you’d have the financial flexibilty to absorb it. That should afford some flexibility in trying to sign a player or take on more salary in another trade this year.
Just a thought.
And somehow, this guy is a genius at what he does.. Amazing. also, i will say something, at some point we will see wheeler, while i hope the guy becomes our ace as well, let’s wati and see him in the majors before crowning SA with his acquisition ok… the only reason why is been thrown out there as a good pick up yada yada is because BA has him rank high.. Well, so was justin smoak and many other prospects and they usually BOMBED!
I’m not endorsing this front office, but you really need some new material.
One more thing. I know you’ve been asked dozens of times, but have you ever provided any link that called Alderson a genius?
Hi Hodges,
Well, so many articles proclaim him as the “grandfather” of sabermetrics and/or money ball, one who “revolutionized” the game by looking outside the box and the “architect” of those great Oakland clubs and to that end – noting how he admitted coming into the job “cold” – that by being able to grasp Bill James’ methodology in one year he was able select the draft picks, make the trades and obtain talent overlooked by others that led to those great Oakland clubs.
If those types of accolades don’t refer to one as a genius without the actual use of the word, I don’t know what others that can.
So you agree that no one’s ever called him a genius.
Since the Mets are still broke going into 2013, not taking on any more payroll should be no news to any of us. I’m just a little surprised they’re not trying to reduce it even further.
So money is the only way to go?? Because his trades suck we’re supposed to say :Well, Blame the wilpons because they got no money and there’s nothing else THREE GM’s in house can do?” right????
Where did I say money was the only way to go? No where.
You keep glossing over the fact that the Mets were dead broke, which is what brought all this to a head and all these changes to begin with. Starting with firing Omar when they owed him money and bringing in a new FO.
Not sure what you thought the Mets were going to do to ‘build’ a contending team while slashing 50 MIL from the payroll, along with all other cost saving measures. Pipe dream.
Well SRT t’s the guys who like Sandy who suggest he was rebuilding with all these moves and cutting not us!
We all SAID he was makng the team worse not better….
Well, all I’m saying is if indeed the Mets are rebuilding, it wasn’t going to happen in 2 years (since SA has been here) with a historical 50 mil slash in payroll thrown in to boot.
IMO, is was always about saving the team for the Wilpons first and foremost. Of course, that was not something they were going to come out an admit.
And was saving the team for the Wilpons the right thing for our GM to do?
Is that something the Fans should APPLAUD him for accomplishing?
Since when is doing what’s best for the WILPONS to the detriment of the TEAM something the Fans should say “Your doing a FINE job there Sandy keep up the good work!…Take all the time you need to get those Wilpons in good shape even if it means the destruction of the team for the next 10 years!”
And you keep assuming that all those cuts actually have helped thier finances but we cut a third of payroll and yet they STILL lost 23 Mil at the boxoffice!
What if attendance drops enough to offset the savings Bay and Santana will bring when they are done?
What will we do then?
‘And was saving the team for the Wilpons the right thing for our GM to do?’
I don’t know….I guess that depends on what SA is getting out of the deal – LOL. Something we’ll probably never know.
I still don’t quite get why he’d leave a cushy MLB job to come to the Mets to be their GM in the middle of this financial mess, especially at his age. Just smacks of some promise he got in return – but that’s just my opinion.
‘Is that something the Fans should APPLAUD him for accomplishing?’
He wasn’t doing it for the fans, as we all know. He was doing it for the Wilpons, probably as part of the deal they cut with Selig to retain the team.
‘Since when is doing what’s best for the WILPONS to the detriment of the TEAM something the Fans should say “Your doing a FINE job there Sandy keep up the good work!’
I don’t know who is saying that. I know I didn’t.
The point I keep trying to make is I don’t think you can separate the financial mess of the team coming into 2011 with the moves the FO has made so far. One is the result of the other. They are not mutually exclusive.
‘And you keep assuming that all those cuts actually have helped their finances but we cut a third of payroll and yet they STILL lost 23 Mil at the boxoffice!’
No I’m not. I don’t know where you got that from. I never said that.
So far, what helped them pay what they needed to for the 2012 season was the slashing of payroll, the 25 MLB load, the 40 bridge load to get to the investors – and finally the investors money.
Since revenues were down for 2012 – which I’m assuming they should have expected – I haven’t a clue how they’re going to pay the bills due for the 2013 season. Which is why I said I was surprised they weren’t reducing payroll further.
jeeze…loans, not load. Although ‘load’ might be appropriate too!
OK SRT I’m going to get you on the record here…
Do you think Sandy has done a good job as GM?
And pray tell why would what Sandy is getting out of it matter?
The judgement on his success or fail should be based on what WE FANS are getting out of it nothing more!
I am rooting for the TEAM and the WINNING….
Not Sandy or the Wilpons well being….
If there are those who do then they are fans of Sandy and Wilpon not the METS because they will be putting the WIlpons and Sandy’s interests in FRONT of the MET and FAN interest.
Do I think Sandy has done a good job as GM since he’s been here?
Hmmm….I think he accomplished the goal he was tasked with. Wish he didn’t. Wish the Wilpon’s team was so far in debt they would have been forced to sell. Since that didn’t happen, especially since they were able to settle out of court – I see the Wilpons as owners as long as Fred is alive.
As far as the ‘traditional’ job as GM? Eh…there were some pickups and trades to be sure that didn’t pan out. No denying that. Don’t think that’s much different than any other GM. Some do it better than others. (take the Marlins last year, for instance). Some are a little more lucky than others. (take Sabean for instance. Anyone see Scutaro as a mid season pickup leading to the NLCS MVP?). Kind of hard to field a contending team slashing payroll some 50 MIL dollars, which is why I’m not weilding fire and brimstone, as some of you are. That handwriting was on the wall almost going in.
Not resigning Feliciano was a good move in hindsight – even if the reason they weren’t signing him is they weren’t paying upwards 4MIL for a lefty specialist.
I still contend that SA won’t be here long enough to really see the Mets climbing back up. I just don’t think that was his main focus. Get the Wilpons’ Mets somewhat financially stable, hand the reigns over to the next GM.
‘And pray tell why would what Sandy is getting out of it matter?
The judgement on his success or fail should be based on what WE FANS are getting out of it nothing more!’
I have no idea. The next Commish job maybe?
No argument on the fans but as I said, don’t think that was ever the focus. I think that’s the major point some of you are not seeing.
Ok so lets go down the waffles shall we? LOL
“think he accomplished the goal he was tasked with. Wish he didn’t.”
So you wish he hadn’t done what he did….Reason to applaud and pat him on the back or give him even more time to do what you didn’t like?
“Eh…there were some pickups and trades to be sure that didn’t pan out.”
Put each on a scale and tell which side does the scale lean to?
Team Improvement or Team detriment?
Do you really think Wheeler balances out what has gone out the door?
“Not resigning Feliciano was a good move in hindsight”
But he got nothing for that move. Was it a good decision? Maybe was letting takahashi go as good?
Has making the right decision on Feliciano paid off vs the decisions he has made since to replace him?
Perhaps Feliciano doesn’t over do it trying to impress his new team and makes it through the season (Weak hyporthetical as that is….)
The bottomline here is as far as Fans are concerned we got nothing from this guy.
And whats worse is we have seen how GOOD we could have been if the focus was Baseball not Ledgers.
The team is not better it’s worse and just cheaper.
And if he had made a move or two to help in two consecutive July’s we might all have reason to sing his praises right now.
If the only thing that has improved is the WIlpon’s standing and wish to blame the Wilpons for the problems then he HURT the team by helping them instead of helping us…
And thats NO REASON to suggest he should get MORE time to make the team even worse for the benefit of an owner we don’t really like all that much.
I don’t care what Sandy is supposed to get he is supposed to be here to make ME (and YOU) a better baseball team.
And a failure to do that is a FAILURE as far as I’m concerned because all I care about is how good this team is on the field not in thier SEC filings.
Last I’m going to comment on this same tired point this time as I’m sure the regulars here are tired of seeing it.
“think he accomplished the goal he was tasked with. Wish he didn’t.”
So you wish he hadn’t done what he did….Reason to applaud and pat him on the back or give him even more time to do what you didn’t like?
>> You’ll have to ask those that did applaud or pat him on the back on that one. I’m not going to speak for those fans.
“Eh…there were some pickups and trades to be sure that didn’t pan out.”
Put each on a scale and tell which side does the scale lean to?
Team Improvement or Team detriment?
>> More like shuffling the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. With a historic 50 MIL slashing of payroll, what exactly did you expect?
Do you really think Wheeler balances out what has gone out the door?
>> Depends on what side you’re looking at it from. If it’s the money side – or the talent side.
I have no problem with the Beltran or KRod trade at all. Had to be done.
I’ve gone on record as saying I wanted Reyes re-signed. But that ship has sailed.
“Not resigning Feliciano was a good move in hindsight”
But he got nothing for that move. Was it a good decision? Maybe was letting takahashi go as good?
>> Of course he got nothing for that move. Feliciano was a FA and they weren’t offering him a contract. If you’re referring to getting something for him mid season, what exactly can you really expect back from a lefty specialist in their mid 30s? Same type of talent.
Has making the right decision on Feliciano paid off vs the decisions he has made since to replace him?
>> Don’t know where you come up with these statements. Go back and read my comments again. No where did I say this.
The bottomline here is as far as Fans are concerned we got nothing from this guy.
And whats worse is we have seen how GOOD we could have been if the focus was Baseball not Ledgers.
>> Broken record….because his #1 goal was to save the team for the Wilpons, which in the short term looks like he’s done that. I don’t know how some of you could have expected some kind of contending team this year with a 50 MIL slashing of payroll.
The team is not better it’s worse and just cheaper.
And if he had made a move or two to help in two consecutive July’s we might all have reason to sing his praises right now.
If the only thing that has improved is the WIlpon’s standing and wish to blame the Wilpons for the problems then he HURT the team by helping them instead of helping us…
And thats NO REASON to suggest he should get MORE time to make the team even worse for the benefit of an owner we don’t really like all that much.
I don’t care what Sandy is supposed to get he is supposed to be here to make ME (and YOU) a better baseball team.
And a failure to do that is a FAILURE as far as I’m concerned because all I care about is how good this team is on the field not in thier SEC filings.
Obviously, everything below this last comment of mine where your final thoughts. I didn’t mean to include those in my response:
>> Broken record….because his #1 goal was to save the team for the Wilpons, which in the short term looks like he’s done that. I don’t know how some of you could have expected some kind of contending team this year with a 50 MIL slashing of payroll.
************************
I agree 100% with the team has gotten cheaper. That was the #1 goal, after all.
Hopefully going forward, the team will get better as well. All depends on what moves they make, who the new GM is.
No what they are tired of is us pulling how they REALLY feel about the FO!
I just managed to pretty much get you to say you don’t like anything they have done you just thought they did what they had to do!
And not saying any of that was good!
Your at least on record now expressing those feelings.
Bookmark it and post it the next time someone calls you a Sandy Fan!
Sandy is def paying his dues to be commissioner of baseball…selig is 78 years old…its about time for him to step down
Sandy’s stance on 2nd generational contracts is def in line with what owners feel…
unfortunately, Sandy has nothing to say about players playing way above their contract worth for the first 5-6 years of their career…unless he is willing to concede those years and up the price dramatically…he should stop complaining about players getting paid
Hi SRT,
For the record, Sandy was willing to re-sign both Feliciano and Takahashi for one year contracts when each wanted two. Yet he did sign Carasco and Francisco to two year contracts.
KRod had a solid season last year and if one looks at his game log for 2012 there are two or possibly three stretches of two or three games where he was completely inept which mares an otherwise decent season of relief performances he did have.
But.. But… Wasn’t sandy a genius??? A guy who best attribute was to acquire the undervalue player because they are smart and know what they’re doing??? Since all that failed horribly then the excuse is we don’t have money…..
See my comment above.
Sounds to me those who are the most annoyed right now are those who actually bought into the malarkey about bringing in a new FO to ‘rebuild’. That was never the #1 goal. Those that got that from the beginning seem to be those that are less annoyed and/or surprised on what’s happened the past 2 years.
Nice use of the word malarkey.
Yeah how silly for anybody to believe (including Amazin Avenue) that ALderson, Depo, & Ricciardi were made the highest paid FO in baseball to rebuild and do whatever it takes to rebuild.
Real silly.
yes, but what exactly did Sandy do?
did he discover a Cy Young candidate like RA Dickey…sign him to a minor league deal for cheap?
no?
o that was Omar…
my bad !
no, he recognized that he was valuable to keep and signed him for 3 more years at a very valuable rate.
Anybody with a brain would have know Dickey had value after 2010.
ROFL!!!
Hi SRT,
You got a point on that. Those of us who saw it from the beginning are more annoyed not at the ownership or Sandy himself than with those who still believe he was brought in as a baseball visionary.
I still think of the team we could have had – an outfield of Beltran, Pagan with the weak link being Duda/Bay. an infield of Wright, Reyes, Murphy and Davis – solid, a weakness behind the plate with Thole then complimented by a bench with Hairston and Tejada along with the others. That would have given us more power, speed at the top of the lineup and protection for Wright. If we had acquired a a decent starter/long relief man he could have moved into the rotation along with Dickey, Niese and eventually Harvey when Santana and Gee went down. Chris Young did a credible job but we needed more than just him. Had we kept KRod, Takahashi (OK, he did falter in August) and used Francisco for middle relief – a position he was more effective in – plus added one or two relievers that could hold steady for the entire season we would have had a better bullpen.
I would have loved to have seen that team – the one dismantled by Sandy Alderson – could have done the entire season.
After reading that article by Martino (one I thought in extremely poor taste), I’m willing to bet Pagan would not have had the season he did with the Giants, had they kept him. Apparently he got some label pinned to him – deserved or not – and once that happens, it’s very hard to remove it, especially if it’s the same manager.
I still believe the Beltran and especially KRod deals had to be done.
Mostly awful, aside from Wheeler. IMO I dont think we’ll see any changes of note.
And with those moves people think we are rebuilding…..Tsk Tsk….
I’m still trying to figure out why Sandy didn’t trade Hairston for a prospect.
Same here.
He did. Problem was, he wanted a top 3 prospect from a team, which chased teams away.
You’re not helping his case!
Do you really think I care for his “case”?
maybe he listened to the fans yelling that they needed to keep trying to win, and had no one to replace him?
And if all he got offered was a crappy prospect or 2, why bother? They already had more of those than they knew what to do with.
Prismo raises a point which certainly makes one wonder if the worst trades were the ones the Mets didn’t make. Hairston, Izzy, Capuano, Cedeno, Young, etc.
Good point. We know Sandy wasn’t going to get a great prospect for any one of these guys, but if you get a few mid-levels maybe one pans out and it’s all worth it. The other option (trading no one) ends up with the Mets finishing the year with 74 instead of 72 wins and getting no compensation when all these guys become free agents.
How about not trading Jose Reyes just so the Wilpons could keep some fans in the seats, i mean we can get Wheeler for Beltran, I know Reyes was on DL around the deadline but they could’ve gotten something real back..
Im also concerned Beato can be a good reliever w the right pitching coach, he reeled off 18 scoreless innings as a rule 5er then after injury wasn t the same, i hope that doesnt come back to haunt..overall Sandy’s been a big bust, period, hands tied by Wilpons or not his moves arent working out..
Beato is a non issue. Even if he goes on to become a hall-of-famer, that is no reflection on the Mets. You summed it up: with a good pitching coach. The Mets brought back Warthen (again). So any chance he of success with the Mets was negated.
I’m not a huge fan of Sandy, but what prospect were you going to get for Scott Hairston? He’s a nice 4th outfielder, but no one’s going to give you a Zack Wheeler for him. Same goes for Tim Byrdak, you’re getting a marginal prospect back.
There’s a lot of ground between Wheeler (#1) prospect and letting Hairston become a FA for literally nothing.
Teams wanted Hairston, and from the rumors at the time, if I recall correctly Sandy might’ve been able to get a #15-20 prospect for him. Compare to that…getting literally absolutely nothing.
how bad though were you willing to have the team be for the last 2 months (in terms of any chance to win games?) Someone had to play the OF and hit RH.
Exactly how good do you think the team was WITH Hairston those last two months?
make up your mind. Can’t yell about not trying to win and also yell about not trading one of the few guys producing.
Now ask youself that question about Wright and Dickey and tell me what you come up with….
I’m not the one in favor of trading away guys who perform around here I’m the guy who says go get them help (which never came because our GM threw in the towel for the second consecutive July in a row!) but if you ARE going to let them go at least get SOMETHING for them!
I don’t like trading Talent away for Maybes or Future and have argued against it for two years while you guys applaud Sandy doing that and even propose he SHOULD do it MORE!
Something about 2014 that turned to 2015 and will soon be 2016,17,18,19,20!
Really bad. I didn’t care. We would’ve had one more prospect and a higher pick in the draft. What did a couple/few extra wins net us? Nothing
(That isn’t to say I was rooting for the Mets to lose every game for the last 2 months of the season, but I can’t honestly say that I cared if they won 70 or 74 games.)
Hi Stick,
Being competitive certainly did not seem to be Sandy’s concern in 2011 when he sent off our top hitter and closer. Those of course were cost-cutting moves that would not have been made with an ownership that was not in personal financial trouble – a trouble that was not brought on by lack of fan support. They were not moves made to improve the team.
So with Hairston it might have been a case where they wanted to stop the fan base from deserting them more as far as paying customers was concerned – but they had long before lost the trust of most fans and thus had already created that hole they could only dig themselves deeper into.
beltran was all about improving the team for the future, since they already knew they would not be bringing Beltran back, and they managed to get a top prospect for him.
K Rod? 100% about having to get rid of his salary.
Hi Stick,
I believe what R.A. Dickey said that a team can both re-build and stay competitive at the same time.
With Beltran, he made public his desire to end his career as a Met. Of course, whether he would have or not we don’t know but we do know Sandy had no intention of even trying to re-sign him.
And one pitcher does not a re-building make. The team showed it’s true color about the future by signing the second fewest draft picks in the majors – including the number 75 pick in the country because they would not offer slot money. Remember when Tom Seaver came up in 1967? The Mets lost 101 games that season despite his rookie of the year performance. The following year, even with the emergence of that great young pitching staff, the Mets won just 73 games. 1969 was something else.
But over the next seven years, even with our own hall of fame pitcher winning the Cy Young award two more times, only once did the Mets win more than 83 games (1976 when they were 86-76) and twice finished below .500.
So I don’t think sacrificing the last two years for one great prospect helps in building for the future at all – not when the opportunity to get additional raw talent is sacrificed along with it. And as we know, Beltran was gone no matter what but it wasn’t necessarily because he was going to walk – it must be remembered that Sandy said if he couldn’t get good prospects in return, he would have then focused on monetary considerations. That’s an indication of salary dumping, not re-building.
As far as the KRod contract, ridiculous as it was, with the Mets as a competitor the Wilpons would have made far more in revenue than what they paid to him.
Yep Sandy was insiting on a top prospect along the same lines as Wheeler which no one was going to give you…
What he SHOULD have done was throw in someone else to get the type of prospect he wanted to get….
Perhaps a Familia or Mejia, Maybe even a Den Dekker or Capt Kirk in addition to Hairston to get what he wanted….
But when someone calls you up asking for a player and you ask for WAY too much (At the trade deadline no less) they tend to say forget about it just a waste of time and move onto more reasonable people making reasonable requests!
Please cite your source on that one. The interview I saw with Alderson was that he said he wasnt offered a top 30 prospect for Hairston. It is one thing to ask for a Wheeler type who is a top 1 or 2 but to give Hairston away from someone who isnt in an organizations top 30 doesnt make sense. Tell me who is the Mets #31 prospect? Do you think another team would take him for a guy who is on pace for 20 hrs that year? Not likely.
But I will stand corrected if you show me where Alderson was holding out for a prospect along the lines of Wheeler.
It was posted here long ago I suggest the search option will help you….
Yes,
Sandy was quoted over and over about wanting a top five pick…. like middle of the road prospects never hit it big in the majors?
On the subject of moves Anthony DiComo wrote this article. One thing he wrote struck a chord.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121023&content_id=40009108&vkey=news_nym&c_id=nym
At this point, even 2013 dollars are at issue. The Mets already have $72 million committed to six players next season (plus $8 million in expected 2014 buyouts), forcing them to approach a $100 million payroll without adding a single player. Alderson has already stated that the 2013 budget will look similar to the roughly $100 million the Mets spent in 2012, meaning there is virtually no wiggle room to add free agents.
So if the Mets are to upgrade their starting outfield, they will need to do so through the trade market, though payroll constraints will still limit them unless they deal Wright, Dickey or Jon Niese — the only large salaries that would be desirable in a trade. The Mets will not take on significant dollars in a deal unless they shed equal money in the process.
It should also be pointed out that last year when Sandy gave his 110 Mil Budget target he was including the money to sign draft picks and IFAs in the total.
We should be clear here also that the only trade of contract that saves any significant money is for Wright.
Dickey is still due to make a mere 5 Milt and hats less than Francisco makes next year!
So trading Dickey gets you no real spending flexability to work with. Add to it his attendance draw and in the end you lose money trading him not gain because his loss will cost you well more than 5 Mil in revenue.
It seems impossible to trade Bay without paying the majority of his money so thats no option….
Only other trade that COULD be made to clear out money would be for Santana. If you only pay HALF his salary you will get twice what you get in savings from trading Dickey and you might not get as good a deal in Kids but is that really all we should trade for?
There are other trades to be had that do not save money but could get you something that can help such as Duda, Murphy, Familia and Mejia.
Right now the BEST way to save money is to package off multiple kids for one GOOD one.
You basically save $3 for $1
Three kids making League Minimum for one kid making League Minimum but actually fills a hole.
Your not going to get that kind of savings by trading Dickey or Santana…
You might get it with Wright who is the only big salary left to trade that can actually help the budget and get something that worth having in return.
I personally would rather they build around Wright but I can see at least enough logic in that trade if Budget is more important than Baseball…
I simply don’t care about thier budget if thats the problem then sell the team…
And I’m not even sure that will help the budget all that much once the attendance drops and offsets the savings.
The emperor has no clothes, gentlemen.
Hu for Antonini = low level trade for 2 players that amounted to be of little significance for either team.
Quintanilla for cash = was the result of poor management of the 40 man roster while attempting to keep the Braves from getting Quintanilla on waivers.
Beato for Shoppach = Beat was a Rule 5 pickup that probably gave the Mets more than they should of expected and after spending a large portion of the season on the dl he didn’t look to be a key part of the Mets future and the addition of Shoppach though brief showed he would be an upgrade behind the plate IF they could sign him.
Kunz for Dykstra = another low level trade that amounted to be at least of some significance for Binghamton.
Pagan for Ramirez,Torres = a trade that proved to be a bad one for the Mets for obvious reasons while being a key trade for the Giants.
KRod for Rosario, Herrera = A flat out salary dump that considering the factors surrounding it like the prior agent to file no trade list and the addition of Boras and moving KRod before that no trade list was then submitted. That they were able to find the one team that could take KRod without having to worry about the vesting option was a significant move except for anyone that believes paying $17M for a closer is a sound move.
Beltran for Wheeler = most significant trade considering the team received a player considered a top prospect in return for 2 months of a soon to be free agent where the receiving team would get no draft pick compensation as well.
The worst trade to me was the Pagan trade not so much because of what Pagan did in S.F. because I don’t believe he would of had the same season in N.Y. in 2012 but mainly because Ramirez failed miserably this season. Torres always was a concern as far as his hitting goes and he proved why that was the case but his fielding which was said to be pretty good fell short of at least my expectations as well.
I agree and anyone who is judging the FO based upon these trades is basing it upon nothing. Most of this list is meaningless. It is the same with the FA signings. Most want to dwell upon the misses but even the hits mean little.
Trades:
1. Nothing for nothing=meaningless
2. Nothing for nothing=meaningless
3. Nothing for an overpriced reliever who went to crap=win (and people want to complain about Frankies contract…can you see paying KRod $17M for his year)
4. High Prospect for Very Good ML player=win (#6 prospect in all of baseball)
5. Garbage ML players for Good ML player=a loss that is meaningless since Pagan was in the plans anyway and the Mets can be rid of Torres/Ramirez
6. Meaningless because Quintanilla wasnt in the plans
7. Nothing for nothing=meaningless (Beato wasnt in the plans and it doesnt seem Shoppach is either)
FAs:
Carrasco=loss (a train wreck)
Bucholtz=loss (depression got him)
Francisco=loss (2 year deal haunting in 2013)
Hairston=win ($1.1M for 20 hrs)
Rauch=Draw (did about what he expected…stretches of both high and low performance)
Cedeno=Draw (solid for $1M but replaceable)
Harris=Draw
Quintanilla=win (minor league contract that helped team)
Baxter=win
Capuano=win
Young=win (cost little and the team needed him)
Byrdak=win
Bautista=Draw
The point is even if these all were wins for the FO, what difference would it make? None of these deals were involving guys who were going to be all stars. Many of the players performed exactly how you would expect which wasnt very great considering their careers. Every deal other than Beltran and KRod were fringe deals not worthy of notice outside the Mets fanbase.
key point though is that all those moves were low $ and/or short term (only a couple were even 2 years, and DJ was about 2.5 mill total). So IOW, all temporary moves to plug holes, and nothing with any down the road negative overhead.
I agree. The Beltran deal improved the future based upon the potential of Wheeler (how it pans out is always another story). As for the rest of them, nothing was gained nor lost in the future. Even the Frankie deal means little since 2013 wasnt going to be the Mets year for major spending. So it is a mistake that will mean little in the long run.
SO you agree that other than the Beltran trade NONE of those moves say REBUILD to you…
Just Bandaids that had no long term impact or improvement of this franchise!
And whose been saying that for almost two years now?
well, you are consistent. You always miss the point.
So tell us what was the point Stick….IS it me missing the point or your lack of point that is at issue here?
The fact they took two years off doing nothing to make the team better is a PLUS to you?
Two years and only Wheeler plus a draft and a half is the way to go here?
This is your point?
It’s not you missing the point:
‘Just Bandaids that had no long term impact or improvement of this franchise!’
Bingo! That’s exactly what was happening for the most part while they got spending down to the point where the Wilpons could conceivably hold on.
And thats a good thing SRT?
Comon you just said it wasn’t really just a post ago!
Is the point the WIlpons well being is more important than the Fans needs?
Who are you a fan of if you feel it is?
“3. Nothing for an overpriced reliever who went to crap=win”
Did he go to crap or just the 8th inning where he couldn’t possibly put up the numbers he did or would as a closer?
Worth 17M? Debateable but then again it’s also debatable that 17 Mil would have been the pricetag because he was willing to negotiate the option away even before the trade to stay a closer!
“6. Meaningless because Quintanilla wasnt in the plans ”
Not meaningless as he was worth a Player that would help more than the cash did!
“7. Nothing for nothing=meaningless”
Is that what happened or was it a Younger and under control for awhile for Older and FA rental which is counter to any attempt we may think they are making towards rebuilding?
“Rauch=Draw (did about what he expected…stretches of both high and low performance)”
Draw? More like Choke!
He was fine early when no one expected us to do anything, then when things got interesting and we were a Playoff contender he tanked under the pressure only to find himself again once the GM and team threw in the towel!
“Capuano=win Young=win ”
WIn what? Thier carerr’s back at our expense?
finally
“Hairston=win ($1.1M for 20 hrs) ”
No more like 2.2 Mil for 27 HRs over two years….
He had a good season and what did that get us in the end?
Another guy who reclaimed his career on our dime that we can no longer afford!
Are we the AAAA Development/Rehabilitation squad for the rest of the MLB or a team who should be developing players for our own purposes and benefit?
hairston, Capuano and Young MITGHT have been wins if we had signed them to Two year contracts at those prices. Then we would have had a reward at the end of the risk taking we took on them.
But we did a one and done and they got thier careers back while we got nothing but a sorry you can’t afford me at the end!
Why do you always have to do this? He(or she) never actually said Sandy is a good gm. If you read the bottom of the post he says that these are mostly really small moves that dont matter. lighten up.
So you agree then that Sandy has done a bad job….
not really a bad job or a good job… If you subtract all the huge commitments on the roster and look at people sandy had power to sign or release with the leftover money, he’s basically been working with a 25-30 mil payroll, which is ridiculously low. I’m not gonna judge him until he has the money to do shit.
So then you agree Sandy has done a bad job here?
Yeah sign Young and Capuano to two year contracts coming off surgery. That is intelligent. And what if they both went down like Young did last year? Would you have liked to have a $5m+ guaranteed investment in each? Because you dont seriously think they would have signed for $2.2M for two years, do you?
As for Hairston, he hit 7 homeruns in 2011 as you pointed out. I am sure you were all in favor of giving him a two year deal last off season…NOT. Nobody thought Hairston was worthy of a two year deal. He was a homerun signing in 2012 and got terrific production.
If you truly believe these guys were worthy of two year deals, then you forfeit your right to say anything about the two year deals that didnt work out. So Frankie, Carrasco, and Bucholtz are off limits to you now.
Rauch was right at or better than his career numbers. WHIP and ERA lower than his career. IP, games, K, BB, and HR were all about the same. Rauch was bad for a 5 week period then yielded next to nothing from beginning of June through the middle of September. Funny I recall there Mets were in the mix until about the trading deadline.
Finally, are you kidding about KRod? Cant pitch the 8th inning? He had 7 blown saves and he wasnt closing all year. The league leader was Axford so it isnt like KRod couldnt have won the role. He was a waste at $8M let alone $17M. Trading KRod was a win because it freed the Mets from his contract. And yes he was willing to forgo it for a longer deal….which is now wise that the Mets didnt give him. After last season, can you imagine having to pay KRod $11 or $12M for 2013. People gripe enough about Francisco.
Oh and dont forget that little domestic battery deal he has pending from a September incident.
Get the hate out of your eyes and see things clearly.
Uh Young DID go down and we resigned him anyway didn’t we?
Did Capuano go down?
Yes the Mets did resign Young…to a minor/major league deal. They werent beholden to him for two year.
And no Capuano didnt go down while pitching well for the Mets. But to think a team is going to give a two year deal to a guy coming off major surgery, that is just asinine. Do you think teams are going to be throwing 2 year deals at Pelfrey? No. And the team that gets him this year, if he performs well, will be auditioning him for a long term deal with another team.
Sure they did they signed him year two hence they were COMMITTED to him for another year even AFTER your worst case scenario actually happened!
HE GOT PAID!
Wrong again. The commitment on the second year was a minor league deal. He only was able to get the major league portion if he was brought up. That is called insurance. If Young wasnt able to pitch, the Mets were not on the hook for major league money. That is a big difference from a two year deal. The fact that he pitched 2/3 of the 2012 season allowed him to earn the Major League money.
“He only was able to get the major league portion if he was brought up”
Are you trying to suggest he didn’t get brought up?
There is NO DIFFERENCE between a two year deal and two one year deals!
Are you for real? You are kidding right? There is a huge difference between a two year deal and two one year deals. In a two year deal, the team has to pay the guy no matter what he does. Hence the situation with Francisco. In two one year deals, the team decides if they want to bring a guy back. There is no obligation past that first year.
Walter Alston managed the Dodgers on 23 1 year contracts. According to your logic, that is exactly the same as him have 1 23 year contract.
You are extremely misguided.
Yeah whats the difference between a two year deal and two one year deals?
the years?
Years you said would be dumb to go for if a player got hurt and who DID get hurt and you bought the second year anyway?
Your semantical approach to arguing is getting tiresome!
You say signing a guy to two years is bad but then applaud signing the same guy for two years!
As far as K-Rod is concerned count up his Blown Saves and compare to all the guys who have tried to replace him as the closer since he left!
You can get blown saves in the 8th just as easily as in the 9th!
Does he have as many blown saves as Rauch and Francisco has losses?
Dont try and defend KRod; he is indefensible. He downright sucked this year. To try and deflect that basis by bringing in Rauch or Francisco is bogus. KRod was not worth $17M this year. In fact, he was not worth the $8M that the Brewers paid him. If he had signed a two year deal with the Mets for $11M or $12M a year (in lieu of his option), that would have been a horrible deal for them. Instead of people bitching about $6M to Frankie after a train wreck of a year, the chatter would be how stupid Alderson was to give KRod a two year deal and how much he sucks.
Not as bad as Rauch Ramirez and Francisco did!
Again a diversion. You are trying to make the case that Alderson trading KRod for two bumps on a log was a bad deal. This is factually incorrect. Your entire point is the Mets could have reworked his deal and saved the $17M option. That might be true if union rules allow for vesting options to be renegotiated. Either way, to do that, the Mets would needed to put a $20M-$25M deal on the table. So you are making the case that KRod is worth that type of money which is incorrect.
Funny how the Brewers managed to do what you claim the Union would not allow….
I suppose that rule only applies to the Mets?
WRONG. The Brewers negotiated the buyout amount by increasing it in exchange for him forgoing the possible option. It was not yet vested where he was owed the $17M, thus not part of his guaranteed compensation. A buyout and an option are two different things.
Basically all you did was find other words to say they bought away the option….
Something you said the Union wouldn’t allow!
Lets put it another way maybe it gets through to you…
WE COULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID!
only difference was, with the mets KRod held all the cards. With the Brewers, he had nothing to play.
so yeah, the mets couild have done the same thing, it just would have cost about 25mill more.
“with the mets KRod held all the cards”
Yeah and Santa actually lives in the North Pole…
If he held all the cards then why did the thing he wanted the LEAST happen to him?
He got traded to a team that was never going to let him be their closer?
We were the ones who held the cards there…Because he wanted to be a closer and would have been happy to lose the option and go into FA as a closer with a closer’s numbers to sell than to be sent someplace where he would never close and go into FA with no numbers to sell!
Metsie: These 2 statements do not jive
“WE COULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID!” (referencing the Brewers)
“Because he wanted to be a closer and would have been happy to lose the option and go into FA as a closer with a closer’s numbers to sell than to be sent someplace where he would never close and go into FA with no numbers to sell!”
- We couldn’t have done what they did because he actually had to accept arbitration from them because nobody made KRod an offer to be a closer.
- Please for your own sake stop pretending that MLB GM’s aren’t smart enough to understand what happened with KRod in 2011. There isn’t a baseball GM in the world that would look at KRod and say “I can’t see if this guy is a good closer because he spent 31 games as a setup man.”
Stop acting like teams who needed a closer couldn’t easily look at the 440 games since 2005 that he has been a closer.
So a team like KC signed Broxton who appeared in 14 games in 2011 to a $4m deal to close, but KRod who was healthy in 2011 couldn’t get a closer deal because teams he didn’t have “closer’s numbers to sell”?
Also, Stop pretending that KRod getting arrested in his team’s clubhouse and getting injured because of it isn’t flagged on his “resume.” Or that his most recent arrest is not an issue for teams either if he’s found to be guilty.
If KRod wanted just to be a closer this year, guess what he could have done? He could have used the best agent in baseball to lower his financial demand to get himself a 1 year deal with teams that signed older more questionable closers and given himself the chance to prove himself.
So 1 of 2 things happened
Either A) KRod was too greedy or B) they DID lower their demands and still nobody wanted him as their closer.
That’s reality. If he got an offer to close from anybody, he would have taken it if that was what was important to him.
OH please Jessup stop the attempt to throw garbage on the facts….
We are talking about selling off the option not what happened AFTER it was sold off!
The points you just made makes MY point even more because your suggesting if we HAD managed to buy off the option that we could have gotten K-Rod to be our closer at dirt cheap prices!
And not have to pay that 17Mil you guys keep thinking is savings when all it was was money not spent!
Off topic, you finally got rid of that obnoxious chat room. Maybe now we can have some real adult conversation without the distractions.
why do people keep talking about saving the wilpons vs. keeping the team solvent? they are the same thing in effect. Bottom line, his first job was to make the team financially stable, regardless of who the owners were
And i doubt Sandy ever did or would directly say it, but he really was not focusing on competing in 2013. His early comments about trying to get sustainable flexibility and build a consistent winning team for a long run screamed of 2014+.
and all the moves above fit into this scenario. This off season is also where you finally see what if any “plan” there is beyond keep the team from going belly up 9which seems to have been done, stabilizing for now at the 95+/-mill level for payroll), With Dickey and Wright being the biggest indicators.
Those 2 are the big ticket items you can use if you want to add more young, controlable (potential) foundation pieces. hairston, he was good for filling his role last year, and most likely they kept him because they were still trying to win some games, had absolutely no decent alternatives, and probably were only going to get back mediocre guys like ones they already had.
“his first job was to make the team financially stable”
They lost 23 Million this year…Mission Accomplished?
If they trade Wright (16 Mil) will they achieve thier goals?
Will they save that 23 Million, 16 Million or just 5 Mil because of the 16 Mil saved they lost 11 Mil in revenue due to no Wright to draw people into the stands?
I agree with North jersey and stick. SA and co. were sent here by the commish to clean up the mess left by the former regime. MLB couldnt afford to let its NYC market go on being a joke any longer. Same with LA. Wilpons lucky not to get the McCourt treatment. Instead they got long time baseball man with a proven track record (whens the last time the mets a GM like that?) I dont know if SA will be a success at turning this franchise around but I am willing to give more than 2 years especially considering the situation he inherited.
And do you agree that we as fans should like/love or applaud those goals?
The ones who are intelligent and dont think like baseball fans understand what is going on and how a organization is constructed. This is the price that is paid for wasted money on POS FA like Alou, Perez, Bay, etc… The spend more money means nothing. Over the last 6 years, the Mets have the 3rd highest payroll in the game and have nothing but one playoff appearance to show for it. That is pathetic.
But then again, over the last two years Alderson should have signed Pujols, Crawford, and Werth just to appease the fans. That would have had Met fans jumping for joy. And would have been the worst thing for the organization.
So I hope Alderson ignores all the fans knowing, for the most part, they want results now.
“….and dont think like baseball fans”
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!
Correct, Anyone who likes what is happening is not a baseball fan they are a fan of business, Wilpons and accounting and don’t care that the baseball on the field SUCKS as a result!
Pittsburg has done what your applauding….
I guess they are a much better team to be a fan of than ours!
Baseball, as are all professional sports, are a business. If you cant realize that, then there is no hope for you. If it werent, Wright, who likes NYC, would sign a contract for $40M or $50M. What the heck. He already collected (or will with this option), $70M+. Why does he need to get more? Because it is a business and his skills are an asset.
Contrary to what most New Yorkers believe, the law of economics applies equally in NYC as it does anywhere else. When a team is bleeding money, something needs to be done to stop the bleeding. Smart financial and baseball decisions need to be made. The Mets spent money and a lot of it. And what do they have to show for it. Zip. Nada. Nothing. One playoff victory and a hundred million dollars in losses. In 2009, 2010, 2011, the Mets payroll was well in excess of $100M. The team spent money. Where were the fans? How many of those years did the team average 40,000 fans? Where were the season long sellouts like Philly and Boston? Oh they didnt happen. The fans didnt come out.
So since the fans dont turn out in droves even when the team is spending a ton of money, there is little option but to attack the financial situation. Obviously the revenue stream wasnt going to improve instantly. But fans like you think the team should just keep spending regardless of the financial situation.
And no this isnt a situation like Pittsburgh; it is more like the Knicks having to get rid of garbage contracts. Ollie, Castillo, Bay, and Santana ultimately are going to end up offering a terrible return on the money they received.
So stop looking for the quick fix that ends up only prolonging the misery.
Well said.
So your a fan of the business not the team…Thats really all you needed to say!
You think good business is better than good baseball and as long as the business is good it doesn’t matter if the team sucks!
Are you that ignorant that you cant understand the concept. Teams need to make money. All teams. And if a team is losing money, it needs to reverse that situation. In the Mets case, there is little fan loyalty at the gate. The NY Giants sucked throughout the 70s yet sold out. The Garden sold out over the past decade that the Knicks missed the playoffs. Cub fans turn out even though they havent won in over 100 years. Yet the Mets cant even average 35,000 when the Mets spend $140M.
You mistakenly believe that spending money = good baseball. It does not. Good baseball requires an organizational development which takes 5 years to create. But then it seems from your response you feel Alderson should wave a magic wand and all is well.
Eh, its no use man Metsie’s never gonna listen…
Nope I never listen to anyone who changes his beliefs in a single article in seperate comments.
If your inconsistent your opinion is deemed UNRELIABLE by me!
You can’t say you DON:T care about baseball (and your intelligent for doing so) and then try and claim you care about the baseball so the business is good for the baseball.
You need to make up your mind and STICK to it before I will listen to you!
“Nope I never listen to anyone”
You could have just stopped there.
That goes triple for 3 year old Troublemaking Baiters like you!
There is no concept!
Pirates run the business the way you suggest and therefore you think they are a successful organization and are doing a good job sucking for as long as they have!
Because it’s a business and the business is done right!
Your a fan of BUSINESS and as long as that is done the way you deem is correct it doesn’t matter to you if the baseball sucks!
What concept you FAIL to grasp is that you don’t have to sell off all your good players to make a good team!
When you figure that out you will see the folly in your stated opions about what is happening here.
I’m not looking at a quick fix, I’m just looking for some candor. It’s agreed that spending was unsustainable at $135-$140 million. But there’s a big difference between cutting it to $110 and cutting it to $93 million and ranking about 15th in payroll.
You state that “we spent all that money” and got nothing is not accurate. From a pure business standpoint, 2007 and 2008 were great successes, the Mets contended to the last day of the season and the Mets set an attendance record in 2008 drawing over 4 million fans.
The first year in Citifield in 2009 they had paid attendance of 3.1 million and averaged 39,000. You would think that those tickets were more expensive that in 2008 so on ticket sales the revenue was probably comparable.
In 2010, they were again competitive in the first half and collapsed in the second half. Attendance drops and we get the unverifiable claim that they lost $70 million. But then the specter of Madoff rears its head.
So in comes Sandy who did a great job of lowering expectations and out go Beltran, Reyes and K-Rod. I don’t have a huge problem with any of that. What I have a problem with is that a decision is made to tell fans that the payroll will be $110 million and then have a payroll that is $20 million less. I’m not looking for Pujols or Josh Hamilton, but it’s maddening that the Mets can’t even resign Scott Hairston or Chris Capuano to two year deals. It’s maddening that “we are going to rebuild the farm system” but then not spend even up to slot. For what? So that the Wilpons can cling to a team they can no longer afford?
It does not take great business or baseball acumen to slash payroll by $50 million and hope for the best. That is what Sandy Alderson did and there is no semblance of any “plan” here. I agree that he gets 4-5 years and the real year to judge him is 2014. But to claim that this front office has been any kind of upgrade to date is nuts.
Amen old school, totally agree..
Hi Ray,
If it was Selig’s goal to keep a healthy franchise (which is different than a competitive one) operating in New York, then he failed miserably. Empty seats, bad press, stars shipped off, star players remaining having doubts about the front office’s commitment to winning and the entire country aware of the team being in deep financial trouble…. he should have stepped out of the way and let the Wilpons either sink or swim on their own.
By trying to prevent the Mets from floundering he actually caused it to happen.
I agree 100% with you, Joey. Selig should have stayed out of it
But you know…40 year friends and all.
I may be way too cynical but I have to wonder if the Wilpon’s financial problems with the Mets played a part in Selig taking back his retirement announcement for like the 3rd year in a row now. I could be wrong…maybe he just wants to work until he drops. I know when he first said he was retiring his wife said she’d believe it when she sees it.
Metsie, you have been saying this for 2 years? then you had your mind made up from the get go. btw how are you related to omar minaya?
Ray please rply to the comment your responding to because I have no frame of reference to respond to you when you don’t.
yes for two years the only deals Sandy has made are Bandaids and Stopgaps and yes it started with his signings in the 2010 Offseason….
What does that have to do with me not giving him time or hating him for 2 years!
It was the moves he made in the fall of 2010 when he got hired, The moves he made between then and the following Offseason that I am judging him by!
Other than Wheeler not a single deal or signing (Exception Niese) has had any long term benefit to this team…
Do you agree or disagree with that and if you disagree please state the deal or signing you believe has helped the long term competitiveness of this team.
Well, U have never heard Sandy referred to in print or other media as a genius. Nowhere. ONly the people who want ot miock him on this site say things like that, for effect. Sandy has a reputation for being a very sound exec type, very disciplined, patient and smart. The kind of guy who p’uts in a long term plan and sticks to it. The kind of guy who does not take guff from the stupids who sometimes run a team. Those are the only compliments I have ever heard about him. I think he is all of those. Just because he inherited a dungheap financially and talent-wise does not make him a dum dum. And as anyone knows, long term plans in baseball have to have room for flexibility. You cannot always get what you want when you are offering to pay in futures. So I say let this play out. Everybody else gets 4 or 5 years.
You are right. It is a 5 year process and he is in year two. People want instant results which only causes more misery. “The Mets need to spend their way out of this mess”. Please. A lack of spending was not the problem all those years. It was a lack of sound baseball decisions. For some reason people in NY think they are exempt from the laws of finance, economics, and baseball. The Mets organization has sucked for a long time. Alderson is gifted with the task of changing that. I dont think there were sound decisions made in this organization since the days of Cashen.
Task – i really have a hard time buying the Mets are losing money. There are other ways to value the franchise. The Wilpons own SNY, worth a billion because it shows Met games. The franchise itself is worth God knows how much, it certainly isn’t decresing in value. Also, books kept on baseball operations are about as good as Enron’s were, no transparancy, Warren Buffet and his finest would have trouble determining a dollar amounts ..im not saying the past 2 years have been good from a cashflow standpoint..the problem is the Wilpons, they are freaking BILLIONAIRES that lost a few hunndred million in the Madoff scandle and now have less liquidity, less liquid assets yet, are still billionaires. They are taking this problem out on how they run the Mets, like spoiled kids, which really blows as a Met fan. Im not even sure they are running it like a business, maybe a business that’s going out of business..im with Metsie on this, nobody wants them to spend recklessly, just a best efforts to try to win a championship, which hasn’t been the case since Sandy has arrived . ..
metsie,
you said it on this thread at 4:04 pm.
Wholesale changes = trying to unload every arbitration eligible player we have. Bye Ike, bye Thole etc…